Did GOProud “out” a conservative gay politico?

posted at 6:45 pm on December 10, 2011 by Jazz Shaw

Well, here’s one story for the weekend which has certainly turned into a sizable tempest in an already full teapot. The Daily Caller reports that prominent conservative activist Andrew Breitbart has resigned from his advisory role at GOProud over their alleged outing of a Rick Perrry campaign adviser – one Tony Fabrizio – as a gay man after his work on recent a Perry campaign ad commenting on gays in the military.

It is with sincere regret that I announce I must step down as a GOProud advisory member. On numerous occasions I have spoken with [GOProud leaders] Jimmy LaSalvia and Chris Barron of the significant impact the practice of “outing” had in my evolution from the political left to the right. I was under the absolute impression that both agreed. I have a zero tolerance attitude toward the intentional infliction of vocational and family harm by divulging the details of an individual’s sexual orientation as a weapon of political destruction. As an “Advisory Board member” I was not consulted on this extreme and punitive act. Clearly, there are more productive means to debate controversial ideas and settle conflicts. Therefore, I cannot in good conscience stand with GOProud. I still stand by gay conservatives who boldly and in the face of much criticism from many fronts fight for limited government, lower taxes, a strong national defense as well as the other core conservative principles.

As Matt Lewis notes, GOProud leaders Chris Barron and Jimmy LaSalvia responded to this earlier. They also followed up by saying they were rather surprised at the outrage (pardon the pun) over this.

There has been quite a bit of press coverage in the last 24 hours regarding our comments about Tony Fabrizio and his role in the Perry campaign, I just wanted to briefly bring you all up to speed on the background. First here is our statement on this yesterday: http://www.goproud.org/goproud-statement-on-tony-fabrizio-–-pollster-and-strategist-for-governor-rick-perry’s-presidential-campaign/

Second, both Jimmy and I have known Tony for years and have known that he was gay for years. Multiple media outlets contacted us after the Perry “Strong” ad debuted asking our opinion of Fabrizio’s role in the campaign given the anti-gay nature of the ad. Every news outlet that called asked our opinion of a gay man being a part of this campaign’s leadership.

I’d like to start off by saying that I’m not generally in favor of “outing” private citizens about anything, whether it’s their sexual orientation, their religion, or what flavor ice cream they like. That’s their business. But when you’re in the deep end of the political pool, things happen. But was this an “outing?”

Without giving too much away, I’ve been on the phone for a while with several people about this one. The general sentiment seems to be that, at most, Tony’s sexual orientation was one of those “secrets everyone knows about” if it was a secret at all. (And that, I should note, is only IF the allegation is accurate, which only Mr. Fabrizio is in a position to say.) But it’s also worth noting that there seems to be a fairly uniform consensus that this was “something that was known.”

Tony was apparently actively involved in Outgiving, a strong supporter of LGBT causes, and also did a lot of work for the Log Cabin Republicans. Now, neither of these things, by themselves, speak to the gentleman’s personal orientation, but it certainly sounds like it might come as a surprise to some of his associates that he was “in the closet.” (Again, with the aforementioned “if” invoked.)

But, going back to the point about “the only person in a position to know” here, the missing piece is a response from Tony Fabrizio himself. If he was, in fact, “outed” or – even worse – if an allegation was made about him which was totally untrue, you’d expect to hear some protests coming from him. Aside from a “no comment” that he gave to one reporter, I’m not seeing anything else along those lines. It’s not that it’s anyone’s business, but the allegations here are no longer focusing on Tony, but on GOProud.

I tend to take the GOProud reps at their word on this one. When you have reporters calling you and asking what you think of “a gay man being involved in the creation of the advertisement” then it’s probably excusable for them to think the reporters were asking from a position of already knowing. Also, GOProud doesn’t have any history of forcibly outing other gay individuals in politics, so it would certainly be out of character for them to start now.

UPDATE(S): It has been noted that Gay Patriot put out the following statement:

On behalf of the GOProud Board and its members and supporters, we want to make it very clear that “outing” a gay or lesbian individual is wrong and should never be used as a political weapon.

Private lives should remain just that — private. The right to disclose one’s sexual orientation belongs solely to each individual. We will continue to oppose “outing” as it has never advanced a political cause but only hurts individuals and their families.

We strongly regret the events of this week.

Also: While I have not located the original tweet from Jimmy LaSalvia, the issue has been raised that he used “The F Word” in it. (No… not that F word. The other one.) Just for your consideration.

UPDATE: (again) The original tweet. Caution: language may be offensive to some.


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JET… Hey JET. Need your input on this.

upinak on December 10, 2011 at 6:50 PM

Breitbart did the right thing.

Mark1971 on December 10, 2011 at 6:55 PM

I don’t see what they did wrong. The ad was petty, and the fact that the gay adviser countenanced the petty ad might be troubling to the GOProud. Would we want commercials saying: they have blacks serving with whites in the military but they ban kids from praying in schools? And to boot, the adviser for the campaign was a black man! Outrage would ensue.

andy85719 on December 10, 2011 at 6:56 PM

http://dailycaller.com/2011/12/10/andrew-breitbart-resigns-from-goproud-advisory-board/

Update: Lisa De Pasquale, a GOProud advisory council member, sends this response along:

I understand Andrew’s reason for resigning and respect his decision. I have always come from a place of building coalitions and being the peacemaker, so I will continue my advisory council role with GOProud. I don’t think this incident was a coordinated effort to “out” someone, but a bad decision to tweet something inappropriate when emotions were high. Many of us have been in a similar position or had friends in a similar position. GOProud can move past this, repair relationships that may have been hurt and continue to work for our shared conservative beliefs.

This seems to be acknowledging that something like what Breitbart suggested did take place.

sharrukin on December 10, 2011 at 6:56 PM

i would think the lack of response from fabrizio confirms he was “outed”. otherwise he would be saying its no big deal. he’s probably having to deal w/ family and friends that werent aware now and that is why he hasnt said anything publicly.

chasdal on December 10, 2011 at 6:57 PM

The Daily Caller reports that prominent conservative activist Andrew Breitbart has resigned
===============================

The Fallout………….
—————————

Andrew Breitbart Resigns From GOProud Advisory Board After Group Outs Perry Staffer
4:07 pm,December 10th,2011
*****************************
*****************************

The outrage to these comments prompted Barron and LaSalvia to release a statement in the name of the organization, explaining that “we did not believe there was any question about his sexual orientation – nor did the reporters who called us to ask about his involvement in Perry’s anti-gay campaign strategy.” This explanation was not enough for Breitbart, however, who explained in a statement today that he has a “zero tolerance attitude towards the intentional infliction of vocational and family harm by divulging the details of an individual’s sexual orientation,” and that he “cannot in good conscience” remain with the group.
(More…)

http://www.mediaite.com/online/andrew-breitbart-resigns-from-goproud-advisory-board-after-group-outs-perry-staffer/
——————————————————————-

GOProud Statement on Tony Fabrizio – Pollster and Strategist for Governor Rick Perry’s Presidential Campaign
For Immediate Release
December 9, 2011
****************

http://www.goproud.org/goproud-statement-on-tony-fabrizio-%E2%80%93-pollster-and-strategist-for-governor-rick-perry%E2%80%99s-presidential-campaign/

canopfor on December 10, 2011 at 6:57 PM

andy85719 on December 10, 2011 at 6:56 PM

a personal choice doesnt equate w/ race.

chasdal on December 10, 2011 at 6:58 PM

Ugh,more RightSphere Infighting…..Tolerance me thinks!!

canopfor on December 10, 2011 at 6:58 PM

Sharrukin’s quote of Lisa De Pasquale was right on, in my opinion. It was a bad decision to tweet something stupid when emotions were high, and it backfired severely.

That being said, I think Breitbart’s resignation sends exactly the right point and message — you may not have necessarily done this maliciously, but what you did was wrong, and there is a penalty.

northdallasthirty on December 10, 2011 at 7:00 PM

How do you “out” someone if you, someone who is not in a relationship with this person, and many other people, know that the person is gay? This all sounds like a bunch of nonsense.

andy85719 on December 10, 2011 at 7:01 PM

Even Ann Coulter says that homosexuality is biological. People, stop with the choice nonsense.

andy85719 on December 10, 2011 at 7:02 PM

Expect Georgie Porgie’s first question to Governor Perry tonight to be about this.

Flora Duh on December 10, 2011 at 7:03 PM

andy85719 on December 10, 2011 at 7:01 PM

its one thing for him to be known as gay to others in the gay community and quite another for someone to proclaim publicly that they are gay. he apparently had not publicly “come out”.

chasdal on December 10, 2011 at 7:03 PM

I have a problem with any organization that comments on the sexual orientation of anybody. For me, this is not a matter of outing so much as it is a matter of boundaries.

BTW- Nice lack of empathy toward Mr. Fabrizio. If gay, he didn’t announce his sexual orientation. Now he has to deal with it in the national media. GOProud does not respect those who would rather keep sexual orientation out of the equation. They knew they were “outing” Mr. Fabrizio and they did not care. Why are you defending them?

Happy Nomad on December 10, 2011 at 7:04 PM

andy85719 on December 10, 2011 at 7:02 PM

well i do like ann but just cause she thinks its biological dont mean crap. and if it is biological explain bi-sexuality??

chasdal on December 10, 2011 at 7:05 PM

GOproud, just GOaway

Kini on December 10, 2011 at 7:05 PM

Also: While I have not located the original tweet from Jimmy LaSalvia, the issue has been raised that he used “The F Word” in it. (No… not that F word. The other one.) Just for your consideration.

Ace has the tweet, Jazz.

northdallasthirty on December 10, 2011 at 7:06 PM

Jazz, as a homocon, I’d say you’re mostly right, but missing a big point.

I believe @GOProud when they say they thought it was common knowledge. Accidents happen. But if you accidentally out someone, you apologize profusely.

That is NOT what @GOProud did. If you read their statement, it basically says this, if I may paraphrase: “We dont believe in outing, BUT in this case he ‘is no victim’ [translation: he had it coming] because we disapprove of blah blah blah”

THAT is justifying outing, not apologizing for it. Jimmy LaSalvia ALSO called gay people who disagree with what he thinks they should believe “f**gots” on twitter.

Accidents can be excused. Justifying the politics of personal destruction cannot.

American Elephant on December 10, 2011 at 7:06 PM

Mr. Shaw’s arguments are unpersuasive.

1) It might be true that reporters “knew” that their target was gay, and that these reporters were chomping at the bit to out him, but they weren’t willing to do so directly. They required the hook of a 3rd party comment, and the GOProuer’s gave it to them.

2) Outing is an act of pure malice & destruction, so it is neither here nor there that Tony Fabrizio has not publicly commented on it. And, of course, Mr. Fabrizio cannot professionally comment on it. He’s not an independent operator; he’s part a campaign. It would be unprofessional, i.e., a disservice to his client, for him to make himself the issue (and it would get him fired.)

3) Outsiders are not in a great position to know how many people “knew” that Mr. Fabrizio was gay. But outing is malicious & destructive because is widens that circle, without the consent of the target, whatever the particular numbers involved.

Outing is an act of hate, an expression of the Left’s “the personal is the political” ideology, and Breitbart was right to break from individuals who practice it.

BCrago66 on December 10, 2011 at 7:07 PM

Oh well. People being mean to one another during a contentious election year. Shocking. The point is that LaSalvia couldn’t have made his argument about the hypocrisy or unseemliness of Perry running the anti-gay commercial without identifying the gay staffer who was helping Perry.

andy85719 on December 10, 2011 at 7:07 PM

I’ll lean with GOProud on this one. Jimmy gets a little heated now and then, but I doubt there was an intention to out anyone.

mythicknight on December 10, 2011 at 7:08 PM

The MSM likes to discredit right-wing gays as they discredit right-wing blacks. We shouldn’t take the MSM word for what happened.
Also, we should remember that a good way to probe for information is to make your suspicion an assumption of a question and see what push-back you get. The reporters talking to GOProud could have done that. In responding to the reporters, GOProud could easily get have gotten confused about whether Fabrizio is in or out of the closet, since he seems to have been at least partially out. Perhaps GOProud could have accidentally confirmed a suspicion, but that is quite different than deliberately outing someone.

thuja on December 10, 2011 at 7:10 PM

Even Ann Coulter says that homosexuality is biological. People, stop with the choice nonsense.

andy85719 on December 10, 2011 at 7:02 PM

Ann Coulter thinks Chris Christie is conservative.

Kelligan on December 10, 2011 at 7:10 PM

I tend to take the GOProud reps at their word on this one. When you have reporters calling you and asking what you think of “a gay man being involved in the creation of the advertisement” then it’s probably excusable for them to think the reporters were asking from a position of already knowing. Also, GOProud doesn’t have any history of forcibly outing other gay individuals in politics, so it would certainly be out of character for them to start now.

The problem is, Jazz, that this wasn’t a matter of “outing” someone in terms of just telling others about their sexual orientation. This was a matter of, essentially, “How can you be a gay person and, blah blah blah…”

In short, it was no different than calling black conservatives race traitors — only this time, it was even worse because it was ostensibly coming from other conservatives. And it has pissed a lot of conservatives who are gay off.

northdallasthirty on December 10, 2011 at 7:10 PM

Chasdal, sexuality isn’t binary. The current theory revolves around the amount of hormones fetus is exposed. This is why you get really effeminate gays, manly gays, effeminate straights (metrosexuals), manly straights, lipstick lesbians, butch lesbians, etc.

andy85719 on December 10, 2011 at 7:11 PM

What is “being gay” about anyway? You could read a billion words in the mainstream about gay this or gay that, but never once does anyone come right and say what it’s all about. Or why it’s okay in some scenarios but not others. Maybe what really needs to be outed is a disanatomical acknowledgement of how being gay is manifested. Then can we just forget about it and stop dividing people by orientation? We have enough divisions to cater sensitivities to, no?

Western_Civ on December 10, 2011 at 7:11 PM

When you have reporters calling you and asking what you think of “a gay man being involved in the creation of the advertisement” ….

1. And who says reporters were calling and saying that? Heckle and Jeckle? Sorry, but I see no reason to take them at their word without verification.

2. Also, wouldn’t the way to handle such questions is to say, sorry, but I don’t comment on other people’s sex lives.

3. Jazz, they deliberately outed the guy in an attempt to embarrass Perry. Don’t play dumb.

Blake on December 10, 2011 at 7:11 PM

WRONG Jazz! IF it was an “open secret”, then that would lead one to believe that NOT EVERYONE was aware of it. They blew it (pun intended).

GarandFan on December 10, 2011 at 7:11 PM


Even Ann Coulter says that homosexuality is biological. People, stop with the choice nonsense.

andy85719 on December 10, 2011 at 7:02 PM

This is not my area of scientific expertise, but I do play an evolutionary biologist on TV and I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night, so my qualifications are basically the same as Ann Coulter’s, and it still seems to me that homosexuality, if it is indeed a genetic trait, wouldn’t last long because it self-selects for extinction by virtue of the differential reproduction rate.

HTL on December 10, 2011 at 7:13 PM

GOProud is a trojan horse for the left used to infiltrate the GOP. There is nothing conservative about the gay agenda and I hope Andrew Breitbart has woken up to their real intentions.

RedRobin145 on December 10, 2011 at 7:13 PM

Who cares…

ninjapirate on December 10, 2011 at 7:14 PM

Postmortem, it is possible to guess the sexuality of the deceased by looking at the size of certain parts of the brain relative to a standard.

andy85719 on December 10, 2011 at 7:14 PM

When you have reporters calling you and asking what you think of [a secret about another person], then it’s probably excusable for them to think the reporters were asking from a position of already knowing.

Yeah, tell that to Scooter Libby.

Fabozz on December 10, 2011 at 7:14 PM

Don’t forget about their snotty comments about the guy lining his pockets and that if he didn’t approve o the ad, he was obligated to quit the job. Pure malice…

Blake on December 10, 2011 at 7:14 PM

There sure is a lot of rationalization in this post.

LaSalvia used a slur that cannot get past the language filters here to refer to Perry’s consultant and he confirmed that with a follow-up tweet.

I realize this site is pretty ABP (anybody but Perry), but I don’t see any wiggle room for GOProud’s behavior.

Y-not on December 10, 2011 at 7:15 PM

This is an interesting dilemma for Go Proud. They have defined themselves as “gay” conservatives so they are going to be asked questions on every issue regarding a gay. This is pretty much what happens with Christian conservatives who are asked questions on every issue regarding Christians in particular, and religion in general. I have always found the outing thing of gay leftists sickening and it definitely flavors my view of gay leftists in a very negative way. Go Proud had better figure out how to handle this better because it is going to happen again and again and I’d bet many conservatives have a negative visceral reaction to anything resembling outing.

Charm on December 10, 2011 at 7:15 PM

I couldn’t care less if Mr. Fabrizio is gay. The main reason is because it is none of my business. The other is that his sexual orientation has no bearing on fixing the country’s financial mess.

GOProud was wrong to “out” Mr. Fabrizio. Andrew did the honorable thing by resigning.

But expect to see those “Rick Perry is gay” lies to ramp up again – louder and more wide spread.

Flora Duh on December 10, 2011 at 7:15 PM

They were not surprised by the results, only surprised that they would be criticized for it. Same shenanigans happens when it’s done by left-wing activist dudesmoochers.

Jeddite on December 10, 2011 at 7:16 PM

The point is that LaSalvia couldn’t have made his argument about the hypocrisy or unseemliness of Perry running the anti-gay commercial without identifying the gay staffer who was helping Perry.

andy85719 on December 10, 2011 at 7:07 PM

Then he shouldn’t have made it.

What politic beliefs BTW, does a homosexual have to have to be safe from public humiliation?

sharrukin on December 10, 2011 at 7:16 PM

On the one hand it’s someone’s personal life, on the other it expresses something about their character if they’re willing to condemn a part of their identity as immoral.

It’s not really analogous to the race issue, since no Republican runs as a racist. If you work for a candidate who says the gay lifestyle is immoral, but are yourself living that lifestyle, it does seem like playing with fire.

amazingmets on December 10, 2011 at 7:18 PM

well i do like ann but just cause she thinks its biological dont mean crap. and if it is biological explain bi-sexuality??

chasdal on December 10, 2011 at 7:05 PM

Your behavior is bisexual if you are horny and too picky. Your sexual identity is bisexual if you care more about your sexual identity making you cool and unique than you care about honesty to yourself and others.

thuja on December 10, 2011 at 7:18 PM

Even Ann Coulter says that homosexuality is biological. People, stop with the choice nonsense.

andy85719 on December 10, 2011 at 7:02 PM

Ann Coulter thinks Chris Christie is conservative.

Kelligan on December 10, 2011 at 7:10 PM

Snap!

tommy-t on December 10, 2011 at 7:18 PM

HTL, what if homosexuality is like Down’s Syndrome? Clearly Down’s is not evolutionarily advantageous, but that hasn’t stopped people from being born with the condition. 1 in 733, to be exact. And what about hemophilia. Not advantageous, but people still have it. Same with a host of other genetic/chromosomal/otherwise biological abnormalities.

andy85719 on December 10, 2011 at 7:19 PM

Even Ann Coulter says that homosexuality is biological. People, stop with the choice nonsense.

andy85719 on December 10, 2011 at 7:02 PM

Well, if Ann Coulter says so…

After all, she’s shown tremendous judgment this election cycle.

Incidentally, I do have a PhD in developmental biology. Last I checked the literature, there was no significant evidence to support “Dr.” Coulter’s claim.

I really don’t understand this need to require people to espouse an unfounded theory, but it reminds me of the global warmists.

Y-not on December 10, 2011 at 7:20 PM

They were not surprised by the results, only surprised that they would be criticized for it. Same shenanigans happens when it’s done by left-wing activist dudesmoochers.

Jeddite on December 10, 2011 at 7:16 PM

Mark the calendar Bubba. We agree.

hawkdriver on December 10, 2011 at 7:22 PM

andy85719 on December 10, 2011 at 7:11 PM

blah blah blah, after the word “theory” nothing you said matters. no one is born gay, and that is a fact.

chasdal on December 10, 2011 at 7:22 PM

No one sees the contradiction here? For how many years have conservatives been bombarded with rants about how homosexual behavior is normal, natural, nothing wrong with it….and here we have all this outrage over ‘outing’ someone who is normal?

Ya, ya, ya, ya, I know, GOP, Christian, higher standards, hypocritical hypocrites, double standards…ya, ya I get that part.

So are the GOProud people admitting that homosexual behavior isn’t ‘normal’ that it’s some kind of behavior that has to be done in secret? Why else the kerfluffel over ‘outing’?

Skandia Recluse on December 10, 2011 at 7:22 PM

andy85719 on December 10, 2011 at 7:07 PM

there was nothing anti-gay about the ad either. it was a compare and contrast about the way the gay agenda is being shoved down our throats in every venue but a constitutionally protected right is being trampled. he wants the right to pray to as respected in school as “heather has two mommies”

chasdal on December 10, 2011 at 7:24 PM

there was nothing anti-gay about the ad either. it was a compare and contrast about the way the gay agenda is being shoved down our throats in every venue but a constitutionally protected right is being trampled. he wants the right to pray to as respected in school as “heather has two mommies”

chasdal on December 10, 2011 at 7:24 PM

I agree with you.

In addition, at most, Perry’s ad expressed an objection to the repeal of DADT. Since when is that an unacceptable position for a Republican to hold?

Y-not on December 10, 2011 at 7:26 PM

O/t a tad,Early Heads Up!
============================

ABC News GOP debate tonight at 9pm ET from Iowa
December 10th, 2011
********************
********************

Saturday evening will mark the second GOP debate airing on a broadcast network as ABC presents an event from Drake University in Des Moines, Iowa.

The debate is sponsored by ABC News, Yahoo! News, WOI-TV, the Des Moines Register and the Republican Party of Iowa. This will be a 2 hour broadcast and with only 6 candidates on stage, there will be a slightly different dynamic than previous debates.

Air Time: Saturday, December 10 at 9pm ET / 8pm CT / 6pm PT on ABC

Live Stream: ABCNews.com (Begins at 8:30pm ET)

Participants: Romney, Perry, Bachmann, Gingrich, Santorum, Paul

http://www.2012presidentialelectionnews.com/2011/12/abc-news-gop-debate-tonight-at-9pm-et-from-iowa/
=====================================

Live Stream: ABCNews.com (Begins at 8:30pm ET)
***********************************************

http://news.yahoo.com/elections/debate/

canopfor on December 10, 2011 at 7:26 PM

GOProud reacted very badly to a bad Perry ad. Neither side wins here. GOProud needs to be better than that.

CoolChange80 on December 10, 2011 at 7:27 PM

o/t Kentucky beaten at buzzer!

50sGuy on December 10, 2011 at 7:28 PM

GOproud, just GOaway

Kini on December 10, 2011 at 7:05 PM

Kini:Cabin Fever Unleashed!!(sarc):)

canopfor on December 10, 2011 at 7:28 PM

What GOProud did was obviously not the most professional thing to do, but I have a feeling that three-quarters of this blog would condemn them regardless out their actions. You caught GOProud with its hand in the cookie jar and now, cue the moral outrage. Its like lefties who find out a conservative is having an affair. Only when the affair comes to light are they concerned about family values, the rest of the time, anything goes.

andy85719 on December 10, 2011 at 7:30 PM

…that he used “The F Word” in it. (No… not that F word. The other one.)

Link added.

Tzetzes on December 10, 2011 at 7:30 PM

I agree with you.

In addition, at most, Perry’s ad expressed an objection to the repeal of DADT. Since when is that an unacceptable position for a Republican to hold?

Y-not on December 10, 2011 at 7:26 PM

But it is an unacceptable position for a gay republican to hold, no?

andy85719 on December 10, 2011 at 7:31 PM

What politic beliefs BTW, does a homosexual have to have to be safe from public humiliation?

sharrukin on December 10, 2011 at 7:16 PM

Same as is required for anyone who wishes to be black, Hispanic, female, or any other minority.

1. Complete and total subservience to the Obama Party.

2. Absolute obedience regardless of how stupid, hypocritical, antireligious, or Marxist your Obama massas are.

Part of the reason minority liberals are so vicious is displaced anger; they know full well that they’re plantation slaves, but they’ve been so brainwashed and terrified by the Obama Party that they can’t even allow themselves to think about dissent – so they take it out on you.

northdallasthirty on December 10, 2011 at 7:33 PM

blah blah blah, after the word “theory” nothing you said matters. no one is born gay, and that is a fact.

chasdal on December 10, 2011 at 7:22 PM

Actually it is not a fact. No-one really knows exactly what makes someone gay.

gh on December 10, 2011 at 7:34 PM

andy85719 on December 10, 2011 at 7:31 PM

only if you believe in identity politics. which im starting to think you must.

chasdal on December 10, 2011 at 7:34 PM

O/T,Newt Reclarify’s!
======================

Newt Gingrich stands by ‘invented’ people remark about Palestinians, supports 2-state Mideast peace plan
24 Mins.ago
Update

http://www.breakingnews.com/
=============================

Gingrich Stands by ‘Invented’ People Remark
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Published: December 10, 2011 at 6:16 PM ET
******************************************

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2011/12/10/world/middleeast/AP-Gingrich-Palestinians.html?_r=1

canopfor on December 10, 2011 at 7:35 PM

But it is an unacceptable position for a gay republican to hold, no?

andy85719 on December 10, 2011 at 7:31 PM

The littlest dictator. He can hold any opinion he wants including the opinion that homosexuality is morally wrong. Where do you get off telling homosexuals what they must believe?

sharrukin on December 10, 2011 at 7:35 PM


Incidentally, I do have a PhD in developmental biology. Last I checked the literature, there was no significant evidence to support “Dr.” Coulter’s claim.

Y-not on December 10, 2011 at 7:20 PM

I am very happy to have an actual expert chime in on this subject. I’m too lazy to review the material, but it’s great that someone else has.

andy85719 on December 10, 2011 at 7:19 PM

Interesting point, but I don’t think the parallels are exact. If I remember correctly, the risk of Down’s Syndrome increases with the age of the mother, which would imply that it’s genetic but not inheritable over multiple generations. I guess it’s possible that a similar link could be established for homosexuality, but wouldn’t we have heard about that by now?

HTL on December 10, 2011 at 7:36 PM

Go Proud had better figure out how to handle this better because it is going to happen again and again and I’d bet many conservatives have a negative visceral reaction to anything resembling outing.

Charm on December 10, 2011 at 7:15 PM

The really annoying thing is that they could have turned it back on them. Something to the effect of, “Several members of the media have called us this week asking for dirt on the sexual orientation of members of Perry’s staff. Not only is that a private and personal matter that should be left up to the individual’s decision, but it shows the degree of vicious personal attacks which Barack Obama and the media have decided to use to divert attention from their failed policies, economic destruction, crony capitalism, and lies to the American public.”

northdallasthirty on December 10, 2011 at 7:36 PM

Meh. The real story would be if Fabrizio got on a dadgum treadmill.

Ladysmith CulchaVulcha on December 10, 2011 at 7:36 PM

Same as is required for anyone who wishes to be black, Hispanic, female, or any other minority.

1. Complete and total subservience to the Obama Party.

2. Absolute obedience regardless of how stupid, hypocritical, antireligious, or Marxist your Obama massas are.

northdallasthirty on December 10, 2011 at 7:33 PM

The guy suggesting this claims to be a Republican.

sharrukin on December 10, 2011 at 7:37 PM

well i do like ann but just cause she thinks its biological dont mean crap. and if it is biological explain bi-sexuality??

chasdal on December 10, 2011 at 7:05 PM

If it’s a choice, then why don’t you feel the biological impulse to be gay?

I mean, if it’s a choice, you should be as hot for men as women, right?

John the Libertarian on December 10, 2011 at 7:40 PM

Well that is a cheap shot, Chasdal. Um, isn’t the person who refers to the “gay agenda” engaging in identity politics much? Us versus them. You obviously don’t believe there is a place for gays in the Republican party or the conservative movement, no? Coupled with your assertion that people just choose to ostracize themselves from a majority of society by choosing an inconvenient lifestyle, I think you might be a bit irrational. Perhaps a fan of asteronii who openly supports gay bashing and the like.

andy85719 on December 10, 2011 at 7:41 PM

If it’s a choice, then why don’t you feel the biological impulse to be gay?

I mean, if it’s a choice, you should be as hot for men as women, right?

John the Libertarian on December 10, 2011 at 7:40 PM

Some guys like blondes and others like brunettes. They aren’t born that way, but they are socialized that way.

sharrukin on December 10, 2011 at 7:42 PM

Down’s Syndrome increases with the age of the mother, which would imply that it’s genetic but not inheritable over multiple generations. I guess it’s possible that a similar link could be established for homosexuality, but wouldn’t we have heard about that by now?

HTL on December 10, 2011 at 7:36 PM

Downs is an extra chromosome and is extremely common. Wikipedia has a good summary. It does increase with the age of the mother but I don’t believe it’s genetic at all.

I read the Wikipedia article a couple of week’s ago because Rick Santorum has a 4 year-old with a similar problem (chromosome 22 rather than 21) which is rarer than Downs and much more severe.

gh on December 10, 2011 at 7:43 PM

Ann Coulter thinks Chris Christie is conservative.
Kelligan on December 10, 2011 at 7:10 PM

Great response.

antisocial on December 10, 2011 at 7:43 PM

Keep it up with the ‘hate’ towards gays and we lose all of the younger Republicans. Who cares?

Redford on December 10, 2011 at 7:44 PM

But it is an unacceptable position for a gay republican to hold, no?

andy85719 on December 10, 2011 at 7:31 PM

Not really. Defense hawk is a (R) position. Having out gays in the military will cause harm to our national security. How much, unknown, but it will cause some particularly when you look at the philosophical makeup of those who serve, you come to realize that many of our great defenders will quietly leave the military as their time comes up. Nadal Hassan was a protected class in the military, gay has become one as well, and that can have nothing but bad outcomes.

astonerii on December 10, 2011 at 7:45 PM

Down syndrome is not genetic. It is a chromosomal defect resulting from an extra 21st chromosome. It is also called trisomy 21. All I’m saying is when was the last time you “chose” to be straight? Did you look at a man/woman and say “I will myself to be attracted to them”? Of course not.

andy85719 on December 10, 2011 at 7:45 PM

Aaaand we were all suitably upset at CPAC over the GOProud contretemps in February?

JeffWeimer on December 10, 2011 at 7:46 PM

The guy suggesting this claims to be a Republican.

sharrukin on December 10, 2011 at 7:37 PM

I am a Republican. And believe me, I’ve taken my own share of hell from it from the “tolerant” gay community.

northdallasthirty on December 10, 2011 at 7:47 PM

“Private lives should remain just that — private.”

So glad to know that Newt has been divorced is now off the table…

/

Seven Percent Solution on December 10, 2011 at 7:49 PM

Nobody cares anymore

Redford on December 10, 2011 at 7:49 PM


The really annoying thing is that they could have turned it back on them. Something to the effect of, “Several members of the media have called us this week asking for dirt on the sexual orientation of members of Perry’s staff. Not only is that a private and personal matter that should be left up to the individual’s decision, but it shows the degree of vicious personal attacks which Barack Obama and the media have decided to use to divert attention from their failed policies, economic destruction, crony capitalism, and lies to the American public.”

northdallasthirty on December 10, 2011 at 7:36 PM

Sometimes I have disagreed with some of your points, but this seems utterly brilliant. Well played, sir.

HTL on December 10, 2011 at 7:49 PM

But it is an unacceptable position for a gay republican to hold, no?

andy85719 on December 10, 2011 at 7:31 PM

Why would it be unacceptable for a gay person to believe that the military operated more effectively under the DADT policy? DADT did not exclude gays from military service. It only regulated their behavior and that of their superiors.

Moreover, I find it beyond the pale for someone to tamper with another person’s livelihood. What GOProud was to make a judgment for Perry’s consultant about what that consultant should do with regards to his work situation. They decided he should have objected and quit the campaign. They didn’t talk to him about it and encourage him to do so. Instead, they decide to punish him and, I guess, attempt to screw up his work situation.

It strikes me as very similar to what the anti-Prop 8 people did when they went after businesses and professionals who supported Prop 8.

Y-not on December 10, 2011 at 7:49 PM

Keep it up with the ‘hate’ towards gays and we lose all of the younger Republicans. Who cares?

Redford on December 10, 2011 at 7:44 PM

Yes, because they are all the same. Just like all Hispanics are exactly the same as illegal aliens.

astonerii on December 10, 2011 at 7:50 PM

GOProud needs to be better than that.
CoolChange80 on December 10, 2011 at 7:27 PM

We’re talking about a group that derives it’s “pride” solely from committing sodomy after all, so I wouldn’t expect too much.

whatcat on December 10, 2011 at 7:51 PM

Yes, Y-not, because the military is functioning very horrible now. All the soldiers know who the gay one is. Your argument is ridiculous.

andy85719 on December 10, 2011 at 7:53 PM

Yes, Y-not, because the military is functioning very horrible now. All the soldiers know who the gay one is. Your argument is ridiculous.

andy85719 on December 10, 2011 at 7:53 PM

How many additional deaths would be enough for you to think it was not worth it?

How many veterans leaving the military early, leaving fewer experienced combat vets to defend the nation and more greens who are at higher risk of death before you consider it might not be worth it.

I have an idea, I would guess that there is no number of either too high for you to figure as so.

astonerii on December 10, 2011 at 7:56 PM

there was nothing anti-gay about the ad either. it was a compare and contrast about the way the gay agenda is being shoved down our throats in every venue but a constitutionally protected right is being trampled. he wants the right to pray to as respected in school as “heather has two mommies”

chasdal on December 10, 2011 at 7:24 PM

Exactly. Repeat, EXACTLY. This is how the hacks in campaigns, media, and blogs misrepresent the entire premise and 400-comment threads bloom.

Hey noobies, now that you’re all thrilled to be here and commenting on a controversial thread, don’t forget to click on the ads you see on the page. Click thank you for the privilege.

RushBaby on December 10, 2011 at 7:57 PM

Another gay ‘right-winger’ here.

- Perry’s ad was offensive.
- Even more so was LaSalvia’s tweet. Really?
- Outing someone is a disgusting and vile tactic that I’d expect out of the likes of Barney Frank. I don’t know if GOProud meant to do that, but Fabrizio has every right to demand an apology.

All I’m saying is when was the last time you “chose” to be straight? Did you look at a man/woman and say “I will myself to be attracted to them”? Of course not.

Thanks Andy. If you believe that it’s a choice … You are just simply wrong. Personal experience. You think I wanted to subject myself to an “abnormal” life where I get bullied and beat up, and risked being thrown out of my home and disowned by my own family? Kids commit suicide over this!

ZachV on December 10, 2011 at 8:00 PM

This is not my area of scientific expertise, but I do play an evolutionary biologist on TV and I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night, so my qualifications are basically the same as Ann Coulter’s, and it still seems to me that homosexuality, if it is indeed a genetic trait, wouldn’t last long because it self-selects for extinction by virtue of the differential reproduction rate.

HTL on December 10, 2011 at 7:13 PM

You’re assuming that all gay men and women abstain from heterosexual sex. We know that’s just not the case.

Capitalist Hog on December 10, 2011 at 8:01 PM

andy85719 on December 10, 2011 at 7:45 PM

Are you one of the new commenters?

hawkdriver on December 10, 2011 at 8:03 PM

Are you one of the new commenters?

hawkdriver on December 10, 2011 at 8:03 PM

No, he was here before the new signup.

sharrukin on December 10, 2011 at 8:05 PM

Alternative headline – “Gay man who helped make an anti-gay ad denigrating our gay soldiers’ sacrifices upset over getting similar treatment. Details at 11.”

inthemiddle on December 10, 2011 at 8:06 PM

there was nothing anti-gay about the ad either. it was a compare and contrast about the way the gay agenda is being shoved down our throats in every venue but a constitutionally protected right is being trampled. he wants the right to pray to as respected in school as “heather has two mommies”

chasdal on December 10, 2011 at 7:24 PM

Ding ding ding! 100% correct! Calling this ad an attack on gays is nothing but a liberal smear.

In addition, at most, Perry’s ad expressed an objection to the repeal of DADT. Since when is that an unacceptable position for a Republican to hold?

Y-not on December 10, 2011 at 7:26 PM

But it is an unacceptable position for a gay republican to hold, no?

andy85719 on December 10, 2011 at 7:31 PM

If the guy is gay, and if he wanted to keep it (at least) partially secret, how is it hypocritical of him to be against the repeal of DADT? He doesn’t want people to ask him, nor does he want to have to tell others about it. That seems entirely consistent with the DADT policy.

IcedTea on December 10, 2011 at 8:08 PM

sharrukin on December 10, 2011 at 8:05 PM

Thanks sharrukin, honestly didn’t recognize the screen name.

Well, then he should know the rules. Andy, all you have to do is call the person a bigot, hater or homophobe and you win your argument.

hawkdriver on December 10, 2011 at 8:10 PM

Yes, Y-not, because the military is functioning very horrible now. All the soldiers know who the gay one is. Your argument is ridiculous.

andy85719 on December 10, 2011 at 7:53 PM

I did was responding to your assertion that there is only one correct opinion for a Republican who happens to be homosexual to hold with regards to DADT.

You’re arguing like a liberal who thinks blacks have to approve of affirmative action or women have to be pro-abortion.

Y-not on December 10, 2011 at 8:10 PM

If the guy is gay, and if he wanted to keep it (at least) partially secret, how is it hypocritical of him to be against the repeal of DADT?

^This.

Y-not on December 10, 2011 at 8:11 PM


there was nothing anti-gay about the ad either. it was a compare and contrast about the way the gay agenda is being shoved down our throats in every venue but a constitutionally protected right is being trampled. he wants the right to pray to as respected in school as “heather has two mommies”

chasdal on December 10, 2011 at 7:24 PM

Well, that’s what I thought too, but I decided I was being too logical for such an emotional subject.

HTL on December 10, 2011 at 8:13 PM

The ad is not “anti-gay” in the first place. It’s an ad about the drift of our society toward a tendency to silence Christians in ways that others are not silenced.

What he said was true, and we all know it.

Here’s my question: Which of our candidates, if any, were supportive of the repeal of DADT? (I know Cheney was – I’m talking about candidates.)

Is Perry’s “crime” acknowledging, out loud, that DADT was repealed? Are we not even supposed to state facts now, without kicking off PC hysteria? Even conservatives are doing this?

This is getting way out of hand. If we can’t even be honest with ourselves, we deserve whatever ugliness we have coming to us.

And GOProud deserves the shame heaped upon it for treating a gay man this way. Despicable. Word was that he objected to the ad – so why drag HIM through the mud? And if Perry has a man working for him that “everyone knows” is gay, is Perry really anti-gay? I don’t freaking think so.

Just disgusted by the smears.

capitalist piglet on December 10, 2011 at 8:15 PM

Funny how in all these outing instances, from so called conservatives and liberals, the excuse is always that it was a “well known secret”, pretty sure that if you have to put the word “secret” anywhere in that statement that it wasn’t as well known as the outers want you to believe.

clearbluesky on December 10, 2011 at 8:18 PM

I tend to take the GOProud reps at their word on this one

Why?

GOProud has been nothing but disruptive to conservatives. Their behavior at CPAC for one example. They support VERY liberal legislation, including the repeal of DADT and gay marriage. They are Democrats in “Republican” clothing. Not to be trusted at all.

-Aslan’s Girl

Aslans Girl on December 10, 2011 at 8:18 PM

First, let’s assume some people are “born gay,” they have an innate attraction to the same gender. So what? It is still a CHOICE whether to act on it or not. It is a CHOICE to give fuel to this way of life, or to resist it.

Unless you think gays are “sub-human” and have no self-control? Otherwise, homosexual behavior IS a choice.

Second, let’s question the assumption that some people are “born gay.” Has this been proven? Hardly. There have been studies done on identical twins separated at birth.

Since they have the same, or virtually the same genetics, but a different social environment they were raised in, if all gays were “born gay,” we would expect if one twin was gay, the other one would be nearly 100% of the time. But this isn’t actually the case.

While the twin of a gay is far more likely to be gay than a member of the general population, it isn’t even close to being 100%.

This makes a strong case that, at least SOME gay people were not “born gay.” It is still possible that some were “born gay,” but there is another possibility. It could be that some people are genetically more “prone” to being gay than others, which would mean it is genetics PLUS environment, which would also explain the data.

Third, behavior and sexuality are notoriously complex. People’s sexual views, and what they are attracted to, CAN be influenced and changed through societal influence. At this point, it is impossible to say with certainty that homosexuality is or is not determined “by birth.” What IS fairly certain is that at least SOME gays were not born gay.

Fourth, whether homosexuality is “natural” or not, it is at best dysfunctional and something that shouldn’t be encouraged. It doesn’t matter if you believe in creation, evolution, or something else. The fact is, you don’t have to be an expert on anatomy to understand that man is made for woman, and woman is made for man. To pretend otherwise is to deny reality.

IcedTea on December 10, 2011 at 8:20 PM

The ad is not “anti-gay” in the first place. It’s an ad about the drift of our society toward a tendency to silence Christians in ways that others are not silenced.

This^^^. all the nonsensical shreiking about the ad being anti-gay is just the usual tactic to get people to shut up, no different than constant accusations of racism, shame to see conservatives engaging in such tactics.

clearbluesky on December 10, 2011 at 8:22 PM

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