Report: MSM really likes to cover the faiths of GOP candidates for some reason

posted at 3:50 pm on December 6, 2011 by Tina Korbe

In an effort to drown out the president’s infuriating class warfare comments in Kansas, I scavenged my inbox for anything else to write about and remembered I haven’t yet highlighted this very interesting report.

Remember when the mainstream media covered every last detail of President Barack Obama’s connection to a certain racist, anti-American pastor by the name of Jeremiah Wright? No? Hmm.

The MSM might not have had much curiosity about the way Obama’s 20-year attendance at Wright’s church shaped him, but they have more than a passing interest in the way religion has shaped the 2012 GOP presidential candidates.

According to a study conducted by The Media Research Center’s Culture and Media Institute, ABC, CBS and NBC mentioned GOP presidential candidates’ religion seven times more in the first 10 months of 2011 than they mentioned Democrat presidential candidates’ religion in the first 10 months of 2007.

But perhaps that coverage was positive — an accurate reflection of the GOP candidates’ own open faithfulness? Not so, according to the MRC. From the executive summary of the study:

Journalists Confront, Criticize and Question Conservatives on Faith: In 2007, reporters accepted at face value liberal candidates’ statements about religion. Not so for 2011′s conservatives. The networks were nearly 13 times more likely to be critical or challenging of conservative candidates’ faith than liberals’. And more than half the religion mentions in 2011 sought to create and exploit controversy over how many Christian denominations regard Mormonism.

The report acknowledges the legitimacy of reporting on a candidate’s religion. Deep-seated religious convictions undoubtedly affect the way a person approaches policy and governance — but the experts at the MRC encourage the networks not to inject religion into a discussion when it doesn’t belong and to at least be even-handed in reporting about religion. For example, MRC experts suggest the MSM could appropriately report the discrepancies between what some Catholic Democratic politicians endorse and what the Catholic Church actually teaches. It’s certainly relevant when a candidate claims to follow one line of thinking but actually implements another. Hypocrisy is as undesirable in political leaders as it is in religious leaders. I second that recommendation.

But, especially, I second this bit of advice from the MRC to MSM journos:

Don’t be Foreign Correspondents: According to the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life, more than 75 percent of Americans identify themselves as Christians of one denomination or another, and 93 percent say they believe in God. But too often network reporters covering religious conservatives sound as though they’re reporting back from an encounter with remote, primitive tribes. In vast swaths of the United States, people attend church regularly, pray publicly and don’t find expressions of faith uncomfortable or alarming. Those people are news consumers too.

As always, the media are supposed to be a mirror of reality. Perhaps secularists are overrepresented in the world of journalism — but that doesn’t excuse reporters from the responsibility of understanding the audience they serve or reporting the truth about what various religions teach and various voters believe.


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Wish one of them would say they’re an atheist.

I can see the heads exploding on how to report that….

catmman on December 6, 2011 at 3:53 PM

With Democrats, it makes no difference what religion they are. It’s not like they believe it or act on it. Biden and Pelosi are about as Catholic as the average goldfish.

RBMN on December 6, 2011 at 3:55 PM

The reason is that the godless mainstream media is nothing more than propaganda front for the leftist/liberal Democrats. Let ‘s stop all the rhetoric and call these jokers for what they are.

rplat on December 6, 2011 at 3:55 PM

That because every Democrat believes in Gaia.

Oil Can on December 6, 2011 at 3:56 PM

Hail Satan?

What kind of press would that garner I wonder…

catmman on December 6, 2011 at 3:57 PM

To the LSM and the Dems, there is one god that they worship and that is government and they are shocked when anyone worships anything other than government

ConservativePartyNow on December 6, 2011 at 3:58 PM

With Democrats, it makes no difference what religion they are. It’s not like they believe it or act on it. Biden and Pelosi are about as Catholic as the average goldfish.

RBMN on December 6, 2011 at 3:55 PM

“In other news, goldfish riot over comparison with liberal politicians…”

dominigan on December 6, 2011 at 3:59 PM

OT but sickening:

On private call, Republicans say attacking Obama personally is too dangerous: Yahoo News exclusive
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/yahoo-exclusive-republicans-disclose-private-call-too-dangerous-175828684.html

Colbyjack on December 6, 2011 at 4:00 PM

Hail Satan?

What kind of press would that garner I wonder…

catmman on December 6, 2011 at 3:57 PM

Democrat or Republican? …the politician, not Satan. :)

dominigan on December 6, 2011 at 4:00 PM

It’s not just poker players that have tells. Theophobes have them too, and they’re pretty easy to spot.

Akzed on December 6, 2011 at 4:03 PM

Colbyjack,

didn’t click on the link, but pointing out all of Obama’s miserable failures as a president surely can’t be considered personally attacking him. Guess I need to go click on the link to see how balle$$ our republicans really are.

karenhasfreedom on December 6, 2011 at 4:04 PM

A little OT, but I was flipping channels last night and stumbled upon Charlie Brown’s Christmas (excellent soundtrack, by the way).

At any rate, I tuned it in just before Linus’s monologue about what Christmas really is.

Linus Van Pelt:

“Lights, please.”

“And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night. And lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid. And the angel said unto them, ‘Fear not: for behold, I bring unto you good tidings of great joy, which shall be to all people. For unto you is born this day in the City of David a Savior, which is Christ the Lord. And this shall be a sign unto you; Ye shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger.’ And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host, praising God, and saying, ‘Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace, good will toward men.’”

That special has been running annually since 1965. It has to drive liberals crazy.

BuckeyeSam on December 6, 2011 at 4:05 PM

On private call, Republicans say attacking Obama personally is too dangerous: Yahoo News exclusive
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/yahoo-exclusive-republicans-disclose-private-call-too-dangerous-175828684.html

I saw that. The call evidently wasn’t very”private.”

sandee on December 6, 2011 at 4:05 PM

if Mitt is nominee there will be stories about how weird Mormonism is and the role of polygamy in it historically. No doubt they will get many christian leaders on tape saying its a Cult and not Christianity.

jp on December 6, 2011 at 4:05 PM

On private call, Republicans say attacking Obama personally is too dangerous: Yahoo News exclusive
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/ticket/yahoo-exclusive-republicans-disclose-private-call-too-dangerous-175828684.html

Yoda says, “And that is why you fail…”

Darksean on December 6, 2011 at 4:08 PM

jp on December 6, 2011 at 4:05 PM

So our side should avoid opportunities to speak the truth if Mitt is nominated? We should pretend that Mormonism is not weird, was not polygamous, is not Christian, and so on?

Akzed on December 6, 2011 at 4:09 PM

Joseph Smith called himself “a second Mohammed.” I hope that our nominee would not have to answer for that.

Akzed on December 6, 2011 at 4:12 PM

The Obama-haters screwed up big when they tried to paint him as a Muslim. If they’d gone with “atheist”, it would have stuck much easier, and the media wouldn’t hyperventilate over it like they do anytime you mention Muslims. Why?

Who here doesn’t think Obama is actually an atheist? Not just Obama, but a bunch of other public figures. I can see McCain as one; he has been to hell and back and knows there’s no God.

Atheist is the new gay.

Seixon on December 6, 2011 at 4:14 PM

karenhasfreedom on December 6, 2011 at 4:04 PM

sandee on December 6, 2011 at 4:05 PM

Yoda says, “And that is why you fail…”

Darksean on December 6, 2011 at 4:08 PM

You said it… most likely they have been cowed by the Racist charge that seems to be spring loaded into every media report.

If we can’t attack his disastrous presidency, what can we attack?

Colbyjack on December 6, 2011 at 4:18 PM

It’s pretty clear that Obooba’s a Muslim.

There’s plenty of evidence for his being a Muslim, and none for his being a Christian. None.

When, where, and by whom he was baptized?

Akzed on December 6, 2011 at 4:20 PM

To the Leftists, religion is something to be put under a microscope. It’s to be studied, pondered and questioned. For the Socialist, to be a Christian is to be dumped into the “unworthy to lead us” bin.

They concern themselves with the “religion” of the Republicans – because they can’t fathom anything but their own “religion” of humanism and statism.

They are incapable of understanding faith in God.

OhEssYouCowboys on December 6, 2011 at 4:22 PM

is not Christian

Akzed on December 6, 2011 at 4:09 PM

Sigh.

Abby Adams on December 6, 2011 at 4:26 PM

Duh. Most of the Repub. candidates love to tout their religious cred, so that makes it fair game for the MSM.

I’d love to hear one of these candidates respond to each and every question about religion: “That’s my business. Judge me by my actions.” Of course, for that to work, the candidate would have to avoid all temptations to spout on religion in the first place. And I’m guessing none have done that.

Splashman on December 6, 2011 at 4:26 PM

6 DEC 2011

HA Candidate Support update 440 explicit or implicit declarations, (previous 410), Numbers include a few new declarations, but several moving out of one group and becoming uncommitted at the present time or switching candidates. Gingrich has now moved into a position of having more HA supporters than the three other top competitors combined. All top tier candidates have picked up some support and so have all the lower tier candidates (Paul, Bachmann, Santorum, & Huntsman, albeit miniscule! The majority of lossed support is attributable to the Cain camp, (and they have broken out in new pledges about equal to existing pledged support) however it has only been about a dozen from his peak. Please note that the tendency of the percentages going down for certain candidates is a result of more declarations of support for other contenders as opposed to withdrawal or transfer of current support. If you have a question as to where I currently you please email at the email provided below.

CAIN (113) [Current 25.7%, Previous, 28.3%, High 43.6% ]

GINGRICH (222) [Current 50.1%, Previous, 49.0%, High 50.1%]

PERRY (49) [Current 11.1%, Previous, 11.7%, High 17.6%]

PAUL (6) [Current 1.2%, Previous, 1.0%, High <5.0%]

HUNTSMAN (5) [Current 0.5%, Previous, 0.5%, High <5.0%]

BACHMANN (3) [Current 0.2%, Previous, 0.2%, High <5.0%]

SANTORUM (3) [Current 0.5%, Previous, 0.2%, High <5.0%]

JOHNSON (1) [Current 0.2%, Previous, 0.2%, High <5.0%]

LAWN GNOME (1) [Current 0.2%, Previous, 0.3%, High <5.0%]

Thanks to our moderators for posting recent entries that have new/more people to declare their support for their favorite candidate. PLEASE NOTE IF YOU CAN, IF YOU HAVE RECENTLY CHANGED TO A NEW CANDIDATE WITH YOUR SUPPORT…THANKS!
The Palin Camp below has changed due to several previous or current supporters being identified over the last week, still a high percentage of uncommitted.

PALINISTa’s (107) – [Cain (2) = 2.0%; was 2.0%, Gingrich (19) = 17.8%; was 17.7%, Perry (5) = 4.7%; was 5.2%, Santorum (1) = 0.9%; was 1.0%, Uncommitted (80) = 74.8%, was 74.0%]

[Please Update me if not correct...only listed here because it seems most of the group is still uncommitted and if I have you here by mistake I would like to correct the error.]

- 3dpuzzman, Adjoran, Africanus, AH_C, Amjean, Annoyinglittletwerp, Astoneril, AZfederalist, Badger40, Bayam, Benny Shakar, Bill C, Bobmbx, Bobscuba, Bruno Strozek, Cindy Munford, Canopfor, Capitalist piglet, Caststeel, CCRWM, ChuckTX, Common Sense, ConservativePartyNow, Crusty,CS89, cynccook, DannoJyd, Darksean, DarvinDowdy, Ddrintn, dec5, Dire Straits, Fallon, FloatingRock, gdonovan, heshTesh, Hoteli, HuckleBerryFriend, idesign, Igor R., Inc_Palin, InkyBinkyBarleyBoo, IronDioPriest, Itswicks, Jainphy, Jellytoast, Jevette, Jummy Doolittle, Jocundus, JonPrichard, JP, KarenhasFreedom, kataklysmic, katiejane, kbird, Kensington, KickandSwimmom, Kimil, kissmygrits, Laurakbarr, Leftnomore, Limerick, Listen2glenn, MadisonConservative, Marcus, Mike_NC9, mirimichi, Missy, mixPlix, NoLeftTurn, Norwegian, NY Conservative, Old Yeller, OtisFrampton, PappyD61, Petfrt, Platypus, Portlandon, ProfitsBeard, Promachus, ProudPalinfan, pugwriter, Puncheko, Ralphboy, Rebar, RedLizard64, right2bright, Scotman, Scrubjay, Sekhemet, Silverwolf, Sonosam, SPS, Stenwin77, SteveMG, Tencole, Thealamos, The_nile, There Goes The Neighborhood, TommyG, Vcforlita, Victor82, Western_Civ, Wisrich, Who is John Galt, Y-not, Zorro, Zoyclem.

Percentages might exceed 100% due to rounding. If for any reason I have you under the wrong candidates tent, I have you listed under more than one candidate, or you would like to throw your name behind a different candidate you can update me at prov22.17-21@juno.com (twelve people have updated this way.
Provided as service towards eventual coalescing behind he/she who saved the people from Him Who Is No Longer Mentioned (HWINLM)…except descriptively as The Destoyer, PBHO, TOTUS.

RedLizard64 on December 6, 2011 at 4:28 PM

I have not seen or heard any substantial mention of what Mormonism is or believes. But nearly every Christian gets the evolution question thrown at them or some abortion trap question sprung on them or some gay couplehood rethemed as mariage quandry. And at the same time the media will mock, smirk, and run some special attacking the basics of Christianity, the church, or Jesus. Lets see them do the basics on Mormonism, or Islam, and do it to Democrats too, and then we can start to call it balanced.

AnotherOpinion on December 6, 2011 at 4:28 PM

Sigh. Abby Adams on December 6, 2011 at 4:26 PM

What’s your problem?

Akzed on December 6, 2011 at 4:35 PM

Perhaps secularists are overrepresented in the world of journalism — but that doesn’t excuse reporters from the responsibility of understanding the audience they serve or reporting the truth about what various religions teach and various voters believe.

Yes, it does. They’re missionaries for the left – they’re proselytizing among the vast unwashed. Why should they change to accomodate those around them when it’s those ignorant Bible-thumping hicks that need to change to accomodate their enlightened secular humanist left-canted world view?

Beo on December 6, 2011 at 4:35 PM

Actual warfare and baptism by fire, 70 years ago tomorrow.

Infamy.

Christien on December 6, 2011 at 4:39 PM

RedLizard64 on December 6, 2011 at 4:28 PM

TOTUS is the teleprompter, not Obama. Get it right.

Christien on December 6, 2011 at 4:42 PM

It really would be helpful for America to have some instructive reporting on the finer points of Black Liberation Theology. You know, so we can compare.

Pablo on December 6, 2011 at 4:43 PM

What’s your problem?

Akzed on December 6, 2011
I believe people like you are everyone’s problem- for all the “conservatives’” screaming about the constitution, what part of Article 6 don’t you get? I couldn’t care less what a President believes about God, or even if he doesn’t believe in God at all- only if he believes in the constitution. Hell, there are times I’d rather have an atheist president- then we could quit the heavy breathing about “But he don’t pray to the real Jesus!” bullsh!t behind us.
Were the founders right about “no religious test” or weren’t they?

drballard on December 6, 2011 at 4:46 PM

I mean, most folks here get all sweaty when any law violates the 2nd, amendment (and rightly so), but got no problem disenfranchising someone because they don’t like where they go to church.

drballard on December 6, 2011 at 4:48 PM

Seixon, are you a Gay Atheist?
Just asking, from your prideful post.

drballard – Why can’t we ask questions about what the LDS believes? Is it a secret?

kingsjester on December 6, 2011 at 4:50 PM

Christien on December 6, 2011 at 4:42 PM

I understand the original shade of meaning, but after deep reflection I have concluded a symbiotic relationship that says one cannot function without the other…though the teleprompter side of the relationship could actually have multiple ongoing relationships…which begs the question of the destoyer “exactly who has been looking at and doing lips action with your teleprompter…hmmmm? ewwwwww…personally I don’t think the teleprompter cares and therefore we can accuse PBHO of being in an elicit relationship…and he has to answer the charges just because they have been made…The revenge of CAIN!!!!

RedLizard64 on December 6, 2011 at 4:58 PM

It hurts when Mormons are not good enough to serve as President, but when other religions need help and call on the “Mormons” to help with their wonderful organizationing ability, and people and money to defeat the gay marriage bill in CA., we are OK. And because of this support, Mormons have lost jobs, businesses, money and are ridiculed and their Temples threatened by the gays in CA.

So please, just tell us what we can do and what we can’t because you consider us 2nd class citizens, and not good enough to serve.

Bambi on December 6, 2011 at 5:00 PM

Kingjester, it’s a free country, you can ask any mormon, hindu, catholic, atheist, or pentecostal whatever you like. You can ask me what I believe. But would it be appropriate to ask me my beliefs when you came in to see me for treatment? What bearing would that have? None at all. Would it be proper to ask my patients’ what they believe? At church, sure. But would it affect how I treat them? Do you care what the pilot flying your plane believes? What rational way does that impact his ability? “Ohh, Mormons/Atheists/Catholics clearly believe crazy things so I’d doubt their judgement!” That may be news to your doctor/pilot/lawyer/ etc. And lest you say those are technical fields with no moral judgements, the professionals in your life would beg to differ.

Besides, I’m pretty sure if you asked a mormon what they believed, you’d have a hard time shutting them up.

drballard on December 6, 2011 at 5:15 PM

Besides which, if religion is important, why does the document you profess to hold sacred say “No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.” Why did the founders explicitly lay that out?

drballard on December 6, 2011 at 5:17 PM

drballard on December 6, 2011 at 5:15 PM

I’m Southern Baptist, Doc. You can ask me what I believe and Whom I believe in, anytime you want. I’ll be happy to tell you about Him. And down here in Dixie, we’re one of those areas that Tina wrote about, so our faith is not just a Sunday mornin’ thang.

kingsjester on December 6, 2011 at 5:22 PM

RedLizard64 on December 6, 2011 at 4:58 PM

It’s illicit, not elicit. Get it right.

Christien on December 6, 2011 at 5:22 PM

drballard – One of those documents that you’re speaking about says that we are endowed by Our Creator. Faith has been a part of American life from the “get go”.

kingsjester on December 6, 2011 at 5:25 PM

Yeah, what’s with all of the Mormon bashing? Just because Mitt Romney might be our candidate? If it bothers you so much, go after Harry Reid and ask him.

p.s. – I’m not a Mormon, but… just saying… sheesh

Mirimichi on December 6, 2011 at 5:35 PM

drballard – One of those documents that you’re speaking about says that we are endowed by Our Creator. Faith has been a part of American life from the “get go”.

kingsjester on December 6, 2011 at 5:25 PM

It is by keeping churches out of government that the founders sought to protect the rights of individual men to freely pursue their own unique relationship with the creator.

dedalus on December 6, 2011 at 5:49 PM

exactly so, dedalus. Look, there’s no way in hell Thomas Jefferson would pass the test kingjester is proposing- he was not a christian in any meaningful way. And your faith, my faith and Allahpundit’s faith are completely different- are we not all Americans? Do we not all have the same rights, whether you believe those rights come form God, Gitche Manitou or merely spiraling coils of self replicating DNA?

drballard on December 6, 2011 at 5:57 PM

MSM in coordination with Team Obama want to pick the Republican candidate.

albill on December 6, 2011 at 6:28 PM

…a certain racist, anti-American pastor by the name of Jeremiah Wright…

“I never said ‘God damn America’. I was talkin’ to America about how great she is. I was like, ‘Goddamn, America!’”

Tzetzes on December 6, 2011 at 6:46 PM

…what I believe and Whom I believe in…

kingsjester on December 6, 2011 at 5:22 PM

The unnatural use of whom was already pretty good, but it was the capitalization that really made it.

Tzetzes on December 6, 2011 at 6:51 PM

It’s illicit, not elicit. Get it right.

Christien on December 6, 2011 at 5:22 PM

Thanks for proofing my submission teacher!

RedLizard64 on December 6, 2011 at 6:51 PM

Bambi on December 6, 2011 at 5:00 PM

OK, I’m still waiting for an answer. Do we sit in the back of the bus?

(Good to know you are still around, Tzetzes)

Bambi on December 6, 2011 at 6:57 PM

Besides which, if religion is important, why does the document you profess to hold sacred say “No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States.” Why did the founders explicitly lay that out? drballard on December 6, 2011 at 5:17 PM

You might have pointed out where I suggested that we repeal the prohibition on religious test oaths (which delegates to the Constitutional Convention took before the left for Philly).

If you are saying that I’m not allowed to vote as I choose based on someone’s religion, go fly a kite.

So our side should avoid opportunities to speak the truth if Mitt is nominated? We should pretend that Mormonism is not weird, was not polygamous, is not Christian, and so on? Akzed on December 6, 2011 at 4:09 PM

Context:

Report: MSM really likes to cover the faiths of GOP candidates for some reason

More context:

Journalists Confront, Criticize and Question Conservatives on Faith: In 2007, reporters accepted at face value liberal candidates’ statements about religion. Not so for 2011′s conservatives. The networks were nearly 13 times more likely to be critical or challenging of conservative candidates’ faith than liberals’. And more than half the religion mentions in 2011 sought to create and exploit controversy over how many Christian denominations regard Mormonism.

So when some evangelical leader gets a mic shoved in his face and is asked how he views Mormonism, is he supposed to lie and say that Mormon denial of the Holy Trinity and the divinity of Christ are perfectly fine with him?

In the interest of holding yourself up as not-a-bigot, you just look like am-a-dope.

Akzed on December 6, 2011 at 7:00 PM

Oh, and for the record, I’d have no problem voting for Romney as the GOP candidate against Obooba. I voted for him in the primary last time.

I would never under any circumstances vote for a Muslim, and if that makes me a bigot, answer this: would you vote for a Christian Identity type? If not, why aren’t you a bigot?

And if your answer is that CI’s are bigots, then you might be surprised to know that Brigham Young said that if one drop of African blood ever entered the Mormon priesthood, it would be proof that the CJCLDS was apostate.

Akzed on December 6, 2011 at 7:07 PM

…I suggested that we repeal the prohibition [of] religious test oaths…

Akzed on December 6, 2011 at 7:00 PM

Go away, troll.

Tzetzes on December 6, 2011 at 7:13 PM

RedLizard64 on December 6, 2011 at 6:51 PM

Check your own work, and get it right.

Christien on December 6, 2011 at 7:47 PM

Azked- I’d vote for someone who
Belives that a cracker can magically become the actual flesh of a 2000 year old carpenter(catholic)
Believes that God has doomed the 95% of humanity to endless hell because they don’t believe in a 2000 yr old carpenter (baptist)
believes that is necessary to cut the end of your penis off to please God (Jewish)
Believes that random chemical collisions can give rise to cytochrome c randomly (atheists)

See how long we can play that game? You believe crazy things, Allahpundit does, Romney does, Gingrich does and so on.
Shall I mock your beliefs to show how silly u are? Perhaps your irrational beliefs disqualify you from voting?

drballard on December 6, 2011 at 8:41 PM

GOP candidates are being Tebowed.

BuckeyeSam on December 6, 2011 at 9:06 PM

reporting the truth

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

roflmao

donabernathy on December 7, 2011 at 9:39 AM

Shall I mock your beliefs to show how silly u are? Perhaps your irrational beliefs disqualify you from voting?

drballard on December 6, 2011 at 8:41 PM

Do you mean continue to mock my beliefs or mock them again? Or do you simply not realize that what you wrote above this is in fact mocking?

And yes, dedalus is correct, but notice that even in his post there’s the understanding that the Founders expected us to commune with our creator.

Esthier on December 7, 2011 at 11:56 AM

drballard on December 6, 2011 at 8:41 PM

You win the Massingill award for Dec. 6, 2011.

Akzed on December 7, 2011 at 1:21 PM

Religion means absolutely nothing to the press. They use it ONLY as a cudgel against those they want to destroy. The only reason they ask the questions about religion is so they can mock the questioned. This is the common theme for everything they do, everything they report, every question they ask on every subject.

Note how many times democrats have been asked what they read, and then mocked for the answer. Note how many times female democrats have been mocked for not staying home with their kids rather than running for public office. Note how many times professions of faith from democrats are referred to as demands for theocracy. Then note how many times these things happen to republicans. It has nothing to do with religion beyond the context of the current question. Every question is merely another opportunity to attack the republican being asked the question.

runawayyyy on December 7, 2011 at 3:14 PM