Pipeline opponents’ confusion makes for “testy” hearing
posted at 5:00 pm on December 3, 2011 by Jazz Shaw
Closing out the week in Congress, the House Subcommittee on Energy and Power held another hearing on the yet again delayed construction of the Keystone XL pipeline. In this session, testimony was called for from Alex Pourbaix, president of Energy and Oil Pipelines at TransCanada, who will be building the pipeline if it ever gets approved. He started out by noting one of the chief advantages of this plan, above and beyond the ability to increase domestic energy supplies… national security.
“When you boil down the debate on this project, I believe it comes down to a simple question for Americans: do they want secure, stable oil from a friendly neighbor in Canada or do they want to continue importing high priced conflict oil from unfriendly regions such as the Middle East or Venezuela?” Pourbaix said.
Questions were forthcoming from both House Democrats and environmental activists, all seeking to find additional reasons to stop the plan. First up, the civilian sector:
“If this oil is meant for the United States, then attach that to a bill,” Jane Kleeb, executive director of Bold Nebraska said. “Make it clear that this oil is guaranteed for the United States. Because right now, there are no guarantees. We know that TransCanada and other tar sands companies need to get to our ports … They want access to our ports in order to sell their commodity on the international market.”
This was followed in short order by one of our distinguished members from the Bay State.
Representative Edward Markey, Democrat-Massachusetts, pressed Pourbaix on whether TransCanada would back legislation that would require that products refined from Canadian oil sands remain in the US.
“Would TransCanada support legislation that ensures that the product can only move forward if the diesel or other refined fuels from the pipeline are only sold in the United States so that this country realizes all of the energy security benefits your company and others have promised it would bring?” Markey asked.
Are you detecting a pattern here? They’re asking Pourbaix whether he can lock in a guarantee that the oil will be sold to us, first of all. (His response that it was “natural that the vast majority of this product will stay in the region” apparently fell on deaf ears.) They’re also asking Mr. Pourbaix if he and his company will be willing to “support” legislation which would deliver such assurances.
First of all, TransCanada owns the pipeline. Not the oil. They don’t get to say who it’s eventually sold to. They’re paid to transport the product from the oil fields to the refineries. Further, in terms of getting any sort of legislation through Congress, Mr. Pourbaix is a Canadian. Not only doesn’t he get to vote on legislation in Congress, he doesn’t even get to vote for the representatives who vote on the legislation. For that matter, being from another country, he can’t even lobby the people doing the voting. Still, he made a noble attempt at explaining some of these things to his questioners.
“TransCanada does not produce one barrel of oil,” Pourbaix replied. “Our entire business is safely transporting that oil. That is a question better put to our shippers, who are largely refiners and producers and largely American companies.”
“Would you agree that there would be no net difference?” Markey asked. He suggested that TransCanada require from its customers that any products exported from Canadian oil be offset by the exact same amount of imports. The result, Markey said, would be that the US would receive the full benefit from the oil transported through the pipeline.
“I can’t do that because I am merely a shipper of that oil,” Pourbaix said. “We’ve already agreed to our shipping arrangements.”
Even after a lifetime of working in the industry and having to deal with bureaucrats in multiple countries, one has to wonder how people like Mr. Pourbaix don’t either break down sobbing or just begin smashing his head into his desk at times like that. I know I probably would.









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Staggering levels of stupid. The Farce is strong with these people…
karl9000 on December 3, 2011 at 5:08 PM
This is proof beyond the slightest doubt, that it’s nothing short of insanity that the Federal Government should even HAVE an energy policy.
These people give “stupid” a bad image!
Lew on December 3, 2011 at 5:12 PM
But,,but,,but…We are Brazil’s best customer!
tinkerthinker on December 3, 2011 at 5:12 PM
*** facepalm ***
rockmom on December 3, 2011 at 5:15 PM
Or keeps from running up there and b1tch slapping the crap out of them.
BallisticBob on December 3, 2011 at 5:16 PM
I’ve read too many blogs today and I’m in a bad mood. I really hate stupid people.
This dumb See-U-Next-Tuesday only needs to look at a map of the U.S. and Canada and see that all they have to do is get the oil to Lake Superior and their own ports and then it is through Lake Huron, Lake Erie, Lake Ontario, and then the St. Lawrence River.
Mirimichi on December 3, 2011 at 5:19 PM
Well…it is Fast Eddie Markey. Those of us who live in the People’s Republic have given up wondering if the fool will ever utter a coherent thought
RedMindBlueState on December 3, 2011 at 5:21 PM
Learned something there.
Alternate land transportation company; not truck nor rail train.
listens2glenn on December 3, 2011 at 5:23 PM
Canada has ports on both the Pacific and the Atlantic with pipelines to both. They don’t need to ship through American ports. It would be good for US business if they did, but they don’t have to.
sharrukin on December 3, 2011 at 5:25 PM
Just for once, I’d like to see a witness at these hearings go, “look — are you guys deaf or just stupid?”
cthulhu on December 3, 2011 at 5:27 PM
The plain fact of the matter is that commodities trade in a world market and these boneheads can no more control the price than King Canute could command the North Sea tide not to come in. They can get out of the way, or they can meddle and make it worse: THAT’S IT!!
Lew on December 3, 2011 at 5:28 PM
You assume facts not in evidence.
Now that Barney is exiting, stage left, look to this loon Markey to take his place as the titular head of the murder of Marxists that we send to Washington.
On behalf of the two or three of us left here in the People’s Republic of Massachusetts, I sincerely apologize.
turfmann on December 3, 2011 at 5:28 PM
No apology necessary, turfmann, Mass has no monopoly on stupid. I come from Minnesota, ’nuff said!
Lew on December 3, 2011 at 5:33 PM
What’s with these environmentalists and the dems that support them? Why are they against jobs?
Because, that would make us energy independent and prosperous and not dependent on them (government handouts).
Mirimichi on December 3, 2011 at 5:34 PM
Lord, God, in heaven, please help us get rid of mental midgets. The only reason these morons are in gummint is that they could not survive in the private sector. It would be so satisfying to punch that idiot in the nose.
ultracon on December 3, 2011 at 5:39 PM
He merely asked if they would support certain legislation. Not if they would create it and enact it and make it the law of the land. I support paying taxes even though I find it a reprehensible part of life- because it is the right thing to do.
All he had to do was say ‘yes’ or ‘no’ that his company would support certain legislation.
Leave it to American Petroleum Institute lackey Jazz Shaw to create this mountain from a speck of a mole hill.
FlatFoot on December 3, 2011 at 5:45 PM
The Brazilian company to which Obama gave the helicopter/defense contract, without allowing U.S. bidding, is connected to Iran (has Iranian owners). Your thug in chief doesn’t work for American jobs at all.
———
On topic, cretins, from the left to the right, occupy Congress. Throw them all out, with no exceptions. It’s the only way to save your country.
Schadenfreude on December 3, 2011 at 5:46 PM
It is hard to imagine how much better America would be regarding multiple issues if we could just flip a switch and go all out to develop our energy resources.
GaltBlvnAtty on December 3, 2011 at 5:46 PM
Unions, their thuggish leaders, should be for this pipeline…creates lots of jobs…alas, the liars and hypocrites.
The media should explode from dereliction of duty.
Schadenfreude on December 3, 2011 at 5:47 PM
Except they cannot support it in any way whatsoever beyond wishing in their hearts it might be true. It was an idiotic question.
sharrukin on December 3, 2011 at 5:50 PM
I was only reading this, and I already did. OW!!!
manwithblackhat on December 3, 2011 at 5:54 PM
Don’t forget Hollywood is against it,so there goes that.
docflash on December 3, 2011 at 6:02 PM
Jeez… The USA wholeheartedly endorses, and the USA vehemently opposes, all kinds of legislation in foreign countries. The USA throws its weight all around the entire globe in organized cognizant efforts to influence foreign legislation in just about every country that exists.
The USA also asks foreign countries to support and endorse all kinds of American legislation and policies all over the world all the time. Yet, somehow, this one was ‘different’?
Grow. Up.
FlatFoot on December 3, 2011 at 6:03 PM
Markey (who I’m saddled with) is an idiot of the blithering variety.
He needs a haircut, too.
Corky on December 3, 2011 at 6:08 PM
The legislation in question had nothing to do with them. They were the pipeline carrier, not the provider of oil. They aren’t American, cannot lobby and have no control over the product. Even the Canadian oil company couldn’t guarantee what they wanted.
It was an idiotic question.
sharrukin on December 3, 2011 at 6:11 PM
I hesitate to comment here because of the headline thread yesterday about angry commenters, so I will keep my cool and note that for someone to be a dumb and as big of a liar as flat foot, they must be an illegitimate love child of Jane Kleeb and representative Markey. The API is a trade and standards organization you stupid tool!
Old Country Boy on December 3, 2011 at 6:13 PM
Where does that far leftist from Bold Nebraska get off complaining about the destination? Her group was about the route of the pipeline. I guess they’re expanding the mission. Considering they have a former Think Progress employee, I’m not surprised. Just another leftist group disguising their true mission.
gitarfan on December 3, 2011 at 6:19 PM
Me thinks Markey’s web name is flatfoot. There cannot be two such stupid people talking about the same subject with so little comprehension. FlatFoot, AKA Markey, keeps asking the same stupid question as Markey and that is why can’t the pipeline operator endorse a piece of illegal legislation. The man represents the owners of the pipeline and has no say or does not care who buys it or where the oil goes after it exits his pipeline. Would you endorse a rainbow on every hilltop? Jeez!
inspectorudy on December 3, 2011 at 6:22 PM
Apology accepted, and you have my sincerest condolences.
listens2glenn on December 3, 2011 at 6:25 PM
It’s quite clear the point of view expressed was that of a typical five year old in the sandbox; what I have in my hand is mine, what I see, is mine, what you have in your hand is mine and it is my right to take it from you whenever I want.
So these ‘environmentalists’ are all about control. You can’t drill for oil until they say so, in the manner they decide, to be used in the manner they approve, to be sold at a price they set, sold only to themselves or their friends, and all your labor to produce it should be unpaid, donated to them, or paid a price they set.
It’s all about control.
Skandia Recluse on December 3, 2011 at 6:28 PM
IIUC, this would create more American jobs. Isn’t that what the Dems say they want?
MeatHeadinCA on December 3, 2011 at 6:30 PM
No Jazz! It’s high time we take the idiots AND BASH THEIR HEADS ON THE DESK!
Who knows, we might actually encourage INTELLIGENT debate!
GarandFan on December 3, 2011 at 6:42 PM
FlatFoot = ShitForBrains
gryphon202 on December 3, 2011 at 7:10 PM
Congressional hearings are never about informing the Members about a subject, but always about the Members looking good for their constituents; which says volumes about the intellectual acuity of the average Markey voter.
Another Drew on December 3, 2011 at 7:28 PM
Is this the same markey that sposored the Carbon tax fiasco? The Markey that didn’t read his own bill?
seven on December 3, 2011 at 7:48 PM
Fixed it for the action these kinds of stupid questions would motivate me toward.
You have to ask if these people are really that stupid or willfully ignorant or just so blinded in their quest for absolute control over everyone else’s lives that they don’t care how stupid they sound, as long as it appeals to their base supporters.
/… and by base, in this case I’m more inclined to the evil,common definition vs. foundational supporting group definition
AZfederalist on December 3, 2011 at 7:54 PM
I’m not so sure it’s “stupidity” or a “quest for control” as much as it’s a belief that “oil” and anything related to it is “evil”.
Like all “corporations”, oil companies can do no good and benefit no one and therefore must be opposed by any and all costs – including the economic health of the country.
Rod on December 3, 2011 at 8:46 PM
Pipeliners Local 798 here in Tulsa, They do all the pipelines, They are not the union goon thug type of union – not the obama type union. They actually spend lots of time and money doing what unions are supposed to do, qualifying welders to weld pipelines under extreme conditions. If you want one welded 200 feet in the air, -10Deg F, underwater, they will teach and qualify the welders to do that. Some of those guys saved the Alaska pipeline.
Old Country Boy on December 3, 2011 at 8:53 PM
They are willfully disingenuous. There is no way any of these environmentalist opponents would suddenly drop their opposition if there were guarantees that all the oil would be sold in the US.
azkag on December 3, 2011 at 9:45 PM
Haha. There it is again. So angry while simultaneously so vapid that the only response that can be mustered when commenting to another commenter- is to cast profane aspersions. I’m sure the amount of time and effort expended on behalf of your well thought out comments is greatly appreciated by everyone in the Hot Air, and Salem Communications, community.
Speaking only for myself… hilarious! Thanks!
FlatFoot on December 3, 2011 at 9:49 PM
Is it that democrats are stupid or that they will say and do anything, anything at all to seize and maintain power? One thing for sure – they think voters are stupid and they are right close to 50% of them. We have to make sure it does not go over 50%.
xrayiiis on December 3, 2011 at 10:54 PM
Fine, oil is an international commodity in an intentional market; so oil can be bought or sold anywhere.
Then you need to get it there… we’ll have it here making our transportation costs.. uh… Oh yes, $0.
But yes, Europe could buy it, and have it shipped to them in a tanker. Which would be beneficial if they’d pay enough to cover the coat of the tanker as well as the oil; otherwise the profit is to be made selling it here where it already is, and where we’re already importing oil.
If anyone would care to claim that it’s cheaper to ship a tanker of oil form somewhere else to here; and to ship our oil here to somewhere else in another tanker; I’ll listen. But I’ll want to see the numbers that clarify how using tankers needlessly reduces the cost of a commodity.
gekkobear on December 3, 2011 at 10:58 PM
Mr. Pourbaix should have said, yes, indeed, the pipeline will stay in the United States. That would have soothed the Democrats tremendously.
unclesmrgol on December 3, 2011 at 11:07 PM
Your snark is duly noted and shall be forthwith ignored.
gryphon202 on December 3, 2011 at 11:51 PM
Look, since I’ve done little so far in this thread to actually contribute to any serious debate, I’ll lay it out for the skeptics among you, few though it seems you are:
Transcanada has no obligation whatsoever, legal, ethical or moral, to determine what happens to oil once it exits that pipeline. For our congressweasels to suggest otherwise strikes me as a grotesque overreach on congress’ part. But then again, what doesn’t nowadays?
gryphon202 on December 3, 2011 at 11:58 PM
Markey is a stupid as every other pol Massachusetts sends our way, including Brown.
WTF, is there anyone left in that state with brains?
Lonetown on December 4, 2011 at 5:45 AM
Hunched over at his desk in the the back of the room, Rod cautiously looks about, hesitates, then slowly … timidly raises his hand and squeaks, “Me, sir?”
Rod on December 4, 2011 at 7:33 AM
Gee, it kinda sounds like Markey was fishing for some way to extort money out of this company. Maybe extort is to strong a word. But still, given the facts of the story, Markey is either as smart as a bag of rocks or he had a script he was reading from. Only the script was for the wrong company.
IMHO
mechkiller_k on December 4, 2011 at 9:02 AM
I was going to simply type “fungible” and leave it at that – then I saw your comment and decided that it made so much more sense.
ericdijon on December 4, 2011 at 9:34 AM
As a Canadian living in an oil producing province, I have on thing to say to you’all … quit electing and listening to enviro-idiots. We tried it and it seems to work.
Brian Mallard on December 4, 2011 at 10:04 AM
Next, they will want legislation to require Democrats only vote for Democrats.
J_Crater on December 4, 2011 at 11:18 AM
Why have we become a nation of idiots?
crosspatch on December 4, 2011 at 12:20 PM
Oh, no! Thank YOU for the moments of hilarity inspired by your posts.
And, of course, the excellent examples of the liberal ‘mind’ at work (or, as close to work as a liberal gets).]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]
Solaratov on December 4, 2011 at 1:00 PM
First of all, the cost of supplying something does NOT determine its price. Cost does determine the minimum sustainable price, but not its market clearing price and certainly not its maximum price.
If the world oil market will pay the Canadians $110.00 for a barrel of its crude, that costs them $35.00 to produce and deliver, why should they sell it to us for anything less? Because we’re nice, or because they’re stupid?
Trust me, we’re not THAT nice, and they’re DEFINITELY NOT that stupid!
The world market price for crude is determined by the world supply and the world demand, and it doesn’t matter where the stuff comes from or what it costs to produce. The only way to change that equation is to somehow change those two variables, and the only way to do that is to bust up OPEC and find more crude.
Lew on December 4, 2011 at 5:16 PM
I’m not sure all liberals think ALL oil is evil. I know for a fact from watching food channel that liberals like extra virgin olive oil (EVOO) (the only extra virgin a liberal will ever see). I suspect they also appreciate the various erotic oils on the market. Since I’m not in to that, can anybody else tell me about any other oil the liberals like? Vaseline?
Old Country Boy on December 4, 2011 at 5:48 PM
The insistance that the shipper agree that all product be for US consumption is simply another way to stop the flow. After the agreement is binding, the Dems hope to create a law banning use of the oil in the US.
davod on December 4, 2011 at 6:59 PM
So they can drill it at $35, pipe it for $10, and sell it to us for $110; making $65/barrel.
Or they can drill it for $35, pipe it through the US for $10, tanker it to Europe for $15, and sell it there for $110; making $50/barrel.
Maybe we only have to pay $100 in order for them to make a higher profit margin selling it to us rather than loading it on a tanker. Or we can block this; have them pipe it to their own ports; and buy from the Middle East at the full $110 with no other options.
Now we’re not getting it for $45 regardless due to the market; but if we’ve got it here and they’d have to pay to send it elsewhere… we might get a better deal here than if we’re buying it from overseas.
Unless tanker ships become free of course, that’s the only flaw I can see in this argument.
Regardless how “international” the market is; that still doesn’t make it free to get something across the ocean. And that extra cost is a factor.
Being able to sell something for $50 isn’t $50 in your pocket if you have to get it to China before you can sell it; but it is $50 in your pocket if you can sell it to your next door neighbor… at which point selling it for $45 might still be a much better deal.
gekkobear on December 4, 2011 at 10:44 PM
Markey needs to be used to plug an abandoned well.
At least he would be somewhat useful at last.
TexasJew on December 4, 2011 at 11:56 PM
The basic fact is that in order to buy our own oil, we have to outbid everybody else in the world market.
Oil in Europe (Brent North Sea Crude) usually costs about $20.00 a barrel more than Oil in the USA (West Texas Intermediate). So if the Canadians can pipe it down to the Port of Houston and tanker it over to Europe for anything less than the $20.00 spread, it looks like a bargain to the Europeans and a windfall to the Canadians. And all the USA gets is the pipe fee.
Again, why would the Canadians sell it to us when they can sell it to the world for a higher price, including the tanker fee. And by the way, I believe that there’s currently a surplus of tanker capacity in the world, and a shortage of refining capacity in the USA, so it’s pretty cheap to go overseas with the crude.
By the way, I understand that the alternative plan that the Canadians are working on if they can’t pipe the stuff down to the Gulf, is to build a line to Vancouver and tanker it to Asia. Seems a little weird when you think of the proximity of the Great Lakes and the obstacle of the Canadian Rockies, but that’s the story.
Lew on December 5, 2011 at 1:08 AM
And another thing, what would you bet that this Enviro-Twit would scream bloody murder when somebody lets her in on the little secret that if we’re going to use this new supply of crude in America, we’re going to have to build some new refining capacity. I don’t think we’ve added any new refining capacity in something like 30 years now.
If you ever want to see the Sierra Club’s collective heads explode, start talking about building an oil refinery some where this side of Mars.
Lew on December 5, 2011 at 1:19 AM