Should we bail out student loans?
posted at 6:00 pm on November 20, 2011 by Ed Morrissey
Do Occupiers have a point in demanding a bailout of student loan debt? After all, the argument goes, the federal government bailed out the big financial institutions — why not the little guys, too? Reason and Reason TV offer this three-and-a-half minute slice of common sense in showing why this is not just a bad idea, but how it also greases the skids for the next bailout, something the Occupiers insist they oppose:
1. These loans are voluntary. All borrowers are excrutiatingly well-informed of how much they’re borrowing and how much they’re going to have to pay back.
About half of all college students take out loans and when they do, every lender clearly spells out exactly how much you’re on the hook for and what your monthly payments are going to be after you leave school.
Critics say that 18-year-olds don’t understand what they’re getting into and shouldn’t be held accountable for their decisions. But that’s an argument against letting kids attend college, not against letting them borrow against future earnings to get a degree that will increase lifetime earnings by somewhere between about $280,000 and $1 million.
2. The amounts being borrowed are hardly overwhelming. While the cumulative total of all college-related debt is huge – approaching a trillion dollars, it’s bigger than credit-card debt – it’s not so big for individuals. The typical college graduate who borrowed money to attend graduates owing about $25,000. They’ve got a minimum of 10 years to pay back that amount and the repayment schedule can be extended and modified for a wide variety of reasons.
The monthly payment for $25,000 in student loans at going rates comes to around $290 a month. That’s not chump change. But given that the that college grads have unemployment rates that are less than half the national average and that the average salary offer for graduating seniors is almost $50,000, the loan amount isn’t so bad either.
3. Bailouts are never a good idea. Like Tea Party activists, Occupy Wall Street protesters are right to rail against bailouts for big banks and financial institutions that are politically connected. But student loan forgiveness advocates are wrong to perpetuate yet another cycle of bailouts. It’s never right to socialize losses while privatizing gains. That’s what the banks did – they risked their money on stupid investments and then got made whole at the expense of taxpayers. Student loan forgiveness is simply another version of the same swindle. And it offloads the costs of other people’s decisions onto taxpayers, who guarantee federally backed student loans.
The better question is whether we should continue to push student loans at all. Just as with the housing bubble, the program has pushed an explosive increase in tuition rates thanks to the higher demand student loans produce, which forces students to borrow even more. The loans have fueled a higher-education bubble that needs to deflate soon. And these protests might end up undermining the political support for government-guaranteed student loans altogether, which may very well be the only salutary impact that Occupiers end up having in the long run.









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No.
carbon_footprint on November 20, 2011 at 6:01 PM
Not just no, but hell no.
darwin-t on November 20, 2011 at 6:02 PM
There was a chick on Portland radio who said that she has 250K in student loan debt and when asked what she studied she responded ‘liberal arts’. The little twit deserves to be in debt for 40 years.
darwin-t on November 20, 2011 at 6:03 PM
No! What the heck is the sacredness of student loans. Were they freaking indentured slaves while they were going to college? Or did they have cars, IPODs, X-Boxes, beer, dates, drugs, Spring Breaks??? This is ridiculous. Soldiers put their dang lives on the line to earn cash and credit for college.
hawkdriver on November 20, 2011 at 6:05 PM
No! Maybe those students didn’t choose wisely in the first place and didn’t pursue a course of study that would actually enable them to find gainful employment to be able to repay those loans. We can’t fix stupid.
Kissmygrits on November 20, 2011 at 6:06 PM
Umm, let me think about that.
…
No.
Why should I, as a taxpayer, have to pay for your degree in underwater basketweaving for which you can now not find a job? As a matter of fact, as a taxpayer, I want the guidance counselor who advised you fired and restitution paid for all the taxpayer money wasted coming up with junk degrees.
AZfederalist on November 20, 2011 at 6:06 PM
Pay your loans back, you bums.
I’m doing my part, and my monthly payments (w grad school loans) are twice the average.
You signed on the dotted line – don’t pretend you didn’t know that you didn’t know what you were getting into.
Good Lt on November 20, 2011 at 6:07 PM
No.
Umm…
No.
You made an agreement, now pay up.
(Think of the scene in “Goodfellas” when they wrap the phone cord around Murray the Wig Guys throat.)
turfmann on November 20, 2011 at 6:07 PM
We need to get the Federal government out of the loan business, period. No loans, no grants, no guarantees, no backstops.
cthulhu on November 20, 2011 at 6:07 PM
If they’re that stupid they shouldn’t be allowed to vote either.
BacaDog on November 20, 2011 at 6:08 PM
….and, BTW, universities should be on the hook for at least 25% of student loans.
cthulhu on November 20, 2011 at 6:08 PM
#4 If you bailout the current crop of students, how is that fair to the college professors who are teaching them who are still paying off student loans? Where do you draw the line? I feel bad for any student taking on that kind of debt with a dismal job market ahead of them, but there weren’t any more guarantees given to them than there were to homeowners whose homes aren’t worth as much as they paid for them.
scalleywag on November 20, 2011 at 6:09 PM
We can discuss doing this AFTER the government writes me a check for $80K. You see, my family actually passed on a lot of instant gratification, and actually saved up the money for my son’s college expenses. The government would be MUCH better served by rewarding our approach to this.
michaelo on November 20, 2011 at 6:09 PM
Instead of bailing out students that bit it by going to all those way overpriced colleges how about……
…..we just continue to overspend $1.5 trillion a year, continue to monetize our debt and don’t do anything about it.
….and then (drumroll here please) we get approached by the IMF or World Bank and have the U.S. Fed Gov’t seize all assets in the 401ks and pension plans (just under $10 trillion).
And then the U.S. gov’t seize all banks and the Federal Government in effect become YOUR REAL LIFE LANDLORD.
Now that you’re a literal slave (borrower servant to the lender) you become….wait for it…..A SLAVE OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT.
Or we can just go on and gripe about the lines this Black Friday, yawwwwwnn.
PappyD61 on November 20, 2011 at 6:10 PM
Like getting a business degree and heading off to Wall Street :)
It’s unbelievable, some of the things kids can major in nowadays that aren’t career worthy.
scalleywag on November 20, 2011 at 6:12 PM
NASCAR Crowd Boos Michelle Obama…
Video below
http://weaselzippers.us/2011/11/20/nascar-crowd-boos-michelle-obama/
Zcat on November 20, 2011 at 6:12 PM
Hell no! I paid mine back by working 2 jobs making minimum wage. These miscreants can do the same.
SouthernGent on November 20, 2011 at 6:13 PM
No.
If they really are a systemic societal threat, put them back in bankruptcy court (where they were before Bush gave a legislative hand-out to his cronies and exempted student loans from bankruptcy).
Bankruptcy is part of capitalism. If I went to the bank and asked for a loan to build a water park/renaissance castle down the street, the bank would have security escort me out because they know I would go bankrupt and they would be lucky to get back two dimes on the dollar.
Let the financial institutions who pimp six figure loans to kids to pursue B.A.s pay for their stupidity.
HitNRun on November 20, 2011 at 6:13 PM
Anyone who went $50,000 plus in debt to get a degree in sociology or ethnic studies or women’s studies or some other worthless crap should have their debt doubled just for being so stupid.
InkyBinkyBarleyBoo on November 20, 2011 at 6:15 PM
Hell no.
Speaking from someone who worked her butt off and put herself through school – no way.
gophergirl on November 20, 2011 at 6:15 PM
Absolutely not!
Paid all of mine off the hard way. So have my kids with one exception and she is still in school. They, too, paid them off the hard way.
A financial agreement/contract is a contract.
Have these “students” learned nothing?
coldwarrior on November 20, 2011 at 6:17 PM
My college and law school loans were $75,000 in today’s money. I paid them back. These brats can, too.
Wethal on November 20, 2011 at 6:18 PM
Just another subsidy for the bloated “education” scam.
CrazyGene on November 20, 2011 at 6:19 PM
Jill Biden was there as well, so that makes it sweeter. Let me add my voice…Boooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
SouthernGent on November 20, 2011 at 6:20 PM
Before asking for a bailout…
… maybe the students should take a look and actually see what they received from their investment.
Seven Percent Solution on November 20, 2011 at 6:21 PM
They get cheap loans against the will of the lender, and the question is should they pay the lender back?
Buddahpundit on November 20, 2011 at 6:21 PM
Ah, the old tu quoque, “two wrongs make a right” fallacy.
Wethal on November 20, 2011 at 6:21 PM
WTF, starting salaries for grads is about $50k?
Man, am I underpaid, LOL.
Midas on November 20, 2011 at 6:22 PM
How about this: Do not put a cap on the interest tax deduction on student loans. Right now you can only write off the first $2,500 and that that’s it. That is paid in my household in about 2 months.
nazo311 on November 20, 2011 at 6:23 PM
Notice how the dems always attack “big oil”, “big pharma”, “big whatever…”. Except there’s never a word about “big education”. Funny, that.
bofh on November 20, 2011 at 6:24 PM
These young folks asking for student loan bailouts…assuming that they are serious….
Their parents have failed.
visions on November 20, 2011 at 6:25 PM
But learning how to squat over a mirror while writing a letter to your gentials is a very marketable resume enhancer…
… isn’t it?
Seven Percent Solution on November 20, 2011 at 6:25 PM
Yes. After you pay off my student loans, you can pay my mortgage, buy me a new car, buy me some groceries, dry clean my clothes, provide me with a housekeeper and a gardener…gimme a few minutes, I’ll think of other things…
When will the desire for freeloading ever end?
HawaiiLwyr on November 20, 2011 at 6:26 PM
Well, TO BE FAIR, tell the IRS to keep any future refund until the debt is paid.
After all, we do want to BE FAIR. Don’t we?
GarandFan on November 20, 2011 at 6:26 PM
1. We should not bail out student loans.
2. Someone should eat more salad.
Akzed on November 20, 2011 at 6:26 PM
I got my Bachelor’s degree paid off by the military and the Master’s degree, I am paying for myself now. And no. I don’t need or want government help in doing so. I don’t care if you major in needlepoint, arts (me), phys ed (also me), or nuclear engineering. It doesn’t matter why you took out the loan,but once you sign your name on the dotted line, you own it. Whatever your degree in college, the one thing you are supposed to take away from the experience is responsibility!
XWing5 on November 20, 2011 at 6:27 PM
What these people do not understand is that Government involvement in any market invariably warps and distorts that market in very natural ways.
The education industry has become very profitable because of Federally subsidized student loans and grants. The education industry’s rates (aka “tuition”) are rising far faster than the rate of inflation, and there’s a very good reason — the laws of supply and demand are fully in play — and because the Feds will cover the split between what the education industry charges and what the consumer (aka “students”) are able to pay. Since most protected class people are able to get fee waivers, private grants, Gates Foundation Millenium Scholarships, etc., and most middle class people are not, it’s middle class students who have the greatest need for loans to get through school. Their parents do not make enough to foot their bill, so the students must borrow to obtain their degree.
If you look at this through the right lens — it’s exactly what happened to the housing market — another market whose rates went through the ceiling because of Federal intervention.
Those who are stuck with sky high student loans and sky high mortgages are blaming the wrong people if they blame Wall Street. Far better to blame the Federal Government, which caused these two markets to far outpace the rate of inflation.
And, while they are at it, they might want to think about what Obamacare is doing to the health marketplace as well.
unclesmrgol on November 20, 2011 at 6:27 PM
Whether you think so or not, the Government helped you through school. During that time, you were insulated (by the GI Bill) from what the colleges are doing with all that fast and easy money provided by the Government. Others, with no military service, must have other ways of getting the money they need to pursue their educational goals. One of those ways is via a student loan.
The Cal State system here in California just raised their tuition 9.5%. Whom do they think is going to cover that rise? The parents? Heh.
unclesmrgol on November 20, 2011 at 6:33 PM
First they wanted houses. We got FHA, Freddie and Fannie. Next, they wanted me to pay for their health insurance. We Got ObamaCare®. Now they want me to pay for their student loans. Sorry folks I’m all tapped out.
These OWS losers talk about greed. As if driving 50 miles one way for a job that pays 40% less than you made 2 years ago. Then having the audacity to want to keep the money you make to take care of yourself and your family is the epitome of greed and selfishness.
No! I think greed is wasting your time and money on foolish endeavors. Then expecting someone else to pay for it. The OWS people made their choices in life. If they don’t like the consequences of their actions. Is that really my problem our yours? What they want is absolutely no consequences, either moral or financial for their decisions in life. They want a comfortable, worry and hassle free life just given to them. That is the epitome of greed and selfishness.
Tommy_G on November 20, 2011 at 6:33 PM
no
rob verdi on November 20, 2011 at 6:35 PM
I worked 56 hours per week and attended college full time. Why? To get an education and do it without any debt. I knew of several others that did the same thing. When I was done I took a job I didn’t particularly like to build a resume. Grow up you selfish butt holes!
chicken thief on November 20, 2011 at 6:38 PM
Yes with conditions.
Those who take a bail out must spend 1 year in prison for every 5k they owe. And they give up their voting rights.
The Notorious G.O.P on November 20, 2011 at 6:38 PM
I was talking to a girl I know who is majoring in English Literature at college. I asked her if she was planning on becoming a teacher of English Lit. She said no. I asked her if she was going to use the degree to springboard into something like Law or another degree that could be used. She said no. I asked her WHY she was majoring in English Lit. She said (and I quote), “For the experience.” I said, “Huh, well, I read English Lit books for enjoyment and I’m not paying someone an ungodly amount of money to teach me something I can figure out on my own.” Dead silence on her part.
Then I proceeded to explain to her that getting a degree does not oblige the world to give you a job. And that my degree probably gives me 100X the opportunities that someone without a degree can get. But so does my work ethic.
It was like talking to an inanimate object. Honestly.
mjk on November 20, 2011 at 6:40 PM
Drop Dead. I paid mine back, you pay yours. OR you can do 5 years in the service instead.
teacherman on November 20, 2011 at 6:43 PM
I owe plenty of money from dental school. It’s nobody’s debt but my own.
gmbdds on November 20, 2011 at 6:44 PM
To be honest, I could use the extra money, but ultimately the answer is NO!
Tim_B on November 20, 2011 at 6:46 PM
I can’t believe this is an actual question posed on HotAir.
Igor R. on November 20, 2011 at 6:47 PM
Hey, they were the supposed college material, dumb asses that paid the over-priced tuition.
If anything they should be railing against the universities that screwed them.
Ha ha ha ha ha
esnap on November 20, 2011 at 6:47 PM
Weird I doubt they would bail someone out retroactively. For that matter I worked my way through school to make sure I owed nothing in the end.
What do I get? /
CW on November 20, 2011 at 6:48 PM
But then look at Newt. He received a B.A. in history from Emory University in Atlanta in 1965, an M.A. in 1968, and a PhD in modern European history from Tulane University in New Orleans in 1971. An look, he is a multimillionaire now, all made as a “historian”. Isn’t that special???
Igor R. on November 20, 2011 at 6:50 PM
“Higher” education is a racket and is another source of funding for the democrats. Lots of student loans means more college professors and administrators belonging to unions or other leftist organizations funneling money back to the democrats. The ranks of college professors are filled with many who “can’t do,” so they “teach” instead. The professors and administrators are part of the government spending establishment and will whine loudly if there is any suggestion to reduce government funding to support them.
GaltBlvnAtty on November 20, 2011 at 6:51 PM
Yes. In many cases they new less coming out than going in.
chemman on November 20, 2011 at 6:52 PM
Privatize the degree, socialize the student loan payments.
Feel free to smack some OWSers upside the head with the Righteous Rod of Irony.
albo on November 20, 2011 at 6:52 PM
Government subsidizes student loans + Government provides financial aid to the “poor” -> Colleges raise tuition at a rate much higher than inflation to take advantage of the money made available through student loans and financial aid -> Government increases the subsidies for student loans and financial aid to compensate for the rising tuition rates.
It’s such a wonderful virtuous circle!
Igor R. on November 20, 2011 at 6:55 PM
all?
CW on November 20, 2011 at 6:56 PM
If they want their loans written-off, they can enlist for 4 years in the military, and if they drop out their loan gets doubled.
SouthernGent on November 20, 2011 at 6:56 PM
So the colleges raise their tuition. The can charge whatever the market will bear for an education. The government (which is now completely in charge of the student loan market) will loan pretty much any 18 year old all the money they want for school. Cant discriminate you know, so the colleges can raise their tuition again, the government will keep loaning money, the colleges will raise their rates again….. sound familiar? We are still playing this game with the housing market, and we can all see how well that is working for everyone.
Koa on November 20, 2011 at 6:57 PM
I guess I didn’t include his congressional salary, my bad.
Igor R. on November 20, 2011 at 6:59 PM
I think they are going by salaries for government jobs? I don’t believe an entrance government job starts at 50,000. without some time and experience to go with it.
A GS 11 starts out around the 50,000 dollar range.
Dr Evil on November 20, 2011 at 6:59 PM
One thing to keep in mind is that many of the students participating in OWS are more like Meghan McCain than the average college graduate. They attended pricy private schools and have useless majors (Columbia – Art History).
Unlike Meghan, they don’t have a beer baroness for a mother nor a politically famous father so MSNBC and Tina Brown won’t reward them handsomely for trashing the Republican Party.
bw222 on November 20, 2011 at 6:59 PM
Nobody made them go to the schools they chose! NO! We do not bail them out!!!!!!!!!!!!! Let the professors bail them out!
bloggless on November 20, 2011 at 7:00 PM
The only starting salaries for a BA/BS that come in that high are concentrated in the CE’s (Chemical Engineering, Civil Engineering)
chemman on November 20, 2011 at 7:01 PM
The essence of liberalism is to destroy any semblance of connection between cause and effect. That’s what you need to do if you want all the victims voting for you.
Igor R. on November 20, 2011 at 7:03 PM
I don’t think the military is interested in having a bunch of gamma’s sign up for duty.
chemman on November 20, 2011 at 7:05 PM
This irks me to no end.
I went back to college at the age of 43 (I’m 59). At the end of five years I had accumulated $10K in student loans, well below the national average. How did I do that?
I competed for every scholarship that I qualified for, and received several.
I also worked 25 hours a week when taking a full load, and if I took summer classes I worked 30-32 hours a week.
If I didn’t take summer classes I worked full time.
And the $10K? I paid it off in eight years.
So scroo these people. They borrowed it. They can damned well find a way to pay it off.
predator on November 20, 2011 at 7:08 PM
If an 18 year old can’t be expected to know what they are signing, or be responsible for the business deals they do initiate, then perhaps we should change the age of accountability, bump up the voter age, extend the child tax exemption and just coddle the poor innocent children until 26 when they finally come of their parents health insurance.
Koa on November 20, 2011 at 7:10 PM
I can’t agree with making anyone serve in the military to pay off a debt. We need people in there who think it’s an honor and a privilege to serve their country, not someone interested in self-serving themselves.
scalleywag on November 20, 2011 at 7:11 PM
This is absolutely false. You have missed how completely messed up the student loan system is. When you take a loan on a house or a car you have a document with fixed amounts on it that define what you owe and what the payments will be and you sign it once. For college loans you have to sign every semester for a new loan of varying amounts. Different loans may come from different lenders and different programs at different rates. Summary sheets from the schools combine grants, scholarships and loans together to reach the total for what the tuition is. No where is there ever a sheet of paper saying after you graduate this will be the total you own. Never. The entire process of applying to a college and figuring out how you will pay is designed to obscure any such figure.
Resolute on November 20, 2011 at 7:13 PM
That’s it. Time for mandatory remedial arithmetic and record-keeping classes in the freshman year.
Igor R. on November 20, 2011 at 7:16 PM
It’s threads like these that make so many of my fellow conservatives sound like unthoughtful, cold-hearted dummies who take a complicated issue and then try to make it as black and white as possible.
College tuition is INSANE today. The rate at which it increases is nuts. On top of that, we tell 18 yr old KIDS (yes, kids) that if they just go to college and get saddled with these nutso amounts of money, they’ll be okay, because college grads make a ton of money more than high schools grads. Except, if you check the stats, that number is constantly debunked, and you end up paying for it with the loans and interest, so most people come out fairly even with high school grads. So, they discover after they graduate with a B.A. that the B.A. is the new HS diploma, and no way they can get a great job unless they spend even more money on graduate school to get a master’s at minimum.
Then, when times get tough, and you fall behind, unlike most bills, college loans default in a weird way and you end up owing more than you ever did to begin with because of one serious illness or layoff situation.
Next, you discover that you’ve gotten so far behind, and that the folks at Sallie Mae don’t care what your situation is, no matter how dire, that unlike every other form of debt in the world, you CANNOT file bankrupty on the loans…even if you find yourself disabled, you might not be able to get rid of the loans.
The whole system is screwed up, no doubt, and it’s silly to just flatly state, “dumb kids deserve it for being so stupid!” as if the situation is that simple.
TheBlueSite on November 20, 2011 at 7:16 PM
The only starting salaries for a BA/BS that come in that high are concentrated in the CE’s (Chemical Engineering, Civil Engineering)
chemman on November 20, 2011 at 7:01 PM
Also finance, CIS/MIS, and mathematics types.
txag92 on November 20, 2011 at 7:16 PM
I argued this point with a nephew and he went ballistic. It was kind of funny. If you think you are not old enough to enter into contracts, you are not old enough to vote. Boom!
Fallon on November 20, 2011 at 7:18 PM
You know what conservatism lack these days? Compassion. Yeah, I think I got something there “Compassionate Conservatism”. Sounds so…novel, yet somehow strangely familiar.
Igor R. on November 20, 2011 at 7:19 PM
I don’t need three reasons. The answer is NO.
Tuition, etc would be reasonable and affordable today if colleges and universities had to truly compete for those dollars. With the proliferation of government grants and loan guarantees (and now loans), colleges can charge whatever they want and the applicants will still line up outside their doors. The government skews every market it enters and costs in those markets go nowhere but up–health care, housing, higher education, agriculture, energy, you name it. We’ve learned this lesson many times over. When, oh when, will we actually apply what we’ve learned?
It will come as no surprise that the Roman Catholic church is the biggest (in terms of assets) non-profit organization in the world. But what is the second? Harvard. Yes, Harvard. Harvard is the 1% and I should pay the freight for people to go there? I don’t think so.
SukieTawdry on November 20, 2011 at 7:20 PM
Then the colleges are being deceptive. When I went to school each loan for each year was for a specific amount.
College tuition is INSANE today.
TheBlueSite on November 20, 2011 at 7:16 PM
Fallon on November 20, 2011 at 7:21 PM
Oops! Misfire, lol.
Why aren’t the OWSers taking on the schools for the hig tuitions? Why do they go like lambs to the supposed financial slaugher without even questioning that these colleges and universities might be Sanduskying them?
Fallon on November 20, 2011 at 7:24 PM
We are destroying contracts.
Cindy Munford on November 20, 2011 at 7:25 PM
Then the colleges are being deceptive. When I went to school each loan for each year was for a specific amount.
College tuition is INSANE today.
TheBlueSite on November 20, 2011 at 7:16 PM
Fallon on November 20, 2011 at 7:21 PM
Yeah, I don’t remember going through the “every semester” thing either. And I always knew what I owed and where I stood with that amount. If what Resolute is claiming is the norm today, then it happened after ’96-’01. That’s when I attended.
predator on November 20, 2011 at 7:26 PM
Going to college is a lot like going to Vegas. There’s no guarantee that you’ll hit the jackpot, or even recoup your investment in loans.
Not everyone succeeds in college. Not everyone who makes a business investment succeeds either. You have to weigh the risk versus the reward. There is no guarantee. Seems the OWS crowd wants that guarantee.
chewmeister on November 20, 2011 at 7:27 PM
THIS!!
Tim Zank on November 20, 2011 at 7:27 PM
YES! YES! YES!
And as soon as you accept the bailout:
- your name is stricken from the records of the school,
- your diploma (at all levels) is rescinded, and,
- if you ever claim to be a graduate to gain employment then you are liable for double the bailout amount, due immediately.
rogerb on November 20, 2011 at 7:28 PM
Karl Denninger had it right last week:
1. Get the government out of student lending ASAP.
2. Make student loans dischargeable in bankruptcy.
3. Treat student loans as unsecured loans for regulatory purposes.
These three legal changes would allow the private banks to begin making student loans again, but they would have to underwrite them more carefully in order to minimize defaults and bankruptcies. Thus we would have a market force pushing more students toward less expensive colleges and toward practical majors that will lead to real jobs.
rockmom on November 20, 2011 at 7:30 PM
The OWS folks don’t live in the real world. The govt HAS totally screwed up the tuition market. The system is a joke- a state school in-state can cost close to $30k a yr when paying for everything needed…that’s insane. And the whole “scholarships will pay a lot of it” is a joke too. I spoke to the head of the scholarships office at my school the other day and was told they have a competitive fund for people with a 3.8-4.0 and the highest award is $500. $500 toward $20k doesn’t help all that much.
Kids without rich parents or parents who set up funds decades before, are often screwed into having little choice but to take out obscene amts of money that they can never default on. And WHY can they not default on them? I know of no other debt, period, that isn’t able to be forgiven through bankruptcy.
It’s all a scam.
TheBlueSite on November 20, 2011 at 7:33 PM
#4 Where do the bail outs stop?
Why student loans over consumer credit-card debt?
The government is responsible for the rapid rise in college costs by making easy money available.
And now they want to make it worse by forgiving dept, or a large part of the debt.
This will only make the cost of college even higher.
Central Planning. Never a good idea. Central Planning bailing out bad Central Planning. Yeah, that’ll work.
hepcat on November 20, 2011 at 7:35 PM
Shout, shout, get bailed out. These are the debts you can do without.
Come on, I’m talking to you, come on.
Igor R. on November 20, 2011 at 7:42 PM
Say, if these people feel that they didn’t get the value promised them by an education they should sue all of those who promised them a high value education.
Really, they should writed down every written promise of having a ‘career path’ via these high priced educational institutions, with the names of who promised it and when. Push that all the way to those leading the tours for the place you went to.
Then work with all the other people who have similar views and start to put a master list together naming all the institutions and all the people who promised the educational value and what they charged for it in the way of tuition, books, dorm fees, etc.
Form a class action lawsuit against the whole kit’n'kaboodle.
Sue their butts off, including the endowment funds.
Get your money back from these places.
Impoverish them.
Put them out of business because they are not selling a product they promised to you.
Occupy a law library and get to work, you may need to get a few part time jobs to support yourselves while you gather the info and put the briefs together, but in 6 months every single high flying university and all of those pushing the high cost/low value education on the docket to figure out just how they will defend themselves from their rapacious cost structure for a bloated bureaucracy.
Question Authority! Get those university personnel on the witness stand!
ajacksonian on November 20, 2011 at 7:42 PM
Are parents generally required to be co-makers or guarantors on these loans? I recall that my father was required to be a co-maker on my loans. I’m not convinced these kids are alone in these lending decisions. Even if not, they are not minors and, therefore, have the legal capacity to enter into contracts.
Don’t understand the terms of the loan? Don’t sign the loan documents.
BuckeyeSam on November 20, 2011 at 7:44 PM
Rick Perry has been pushing for Texas colleges to come up with a bachelors degree that costs $10k total. That would take care of part of this student loan problem.
juliesa on November 20, 2011 at 7:45 PM
Now any illegal could afford an education even without government aid!
Igor R. on November 20, 2011 at 7:46 PM
My wife and I payed back every cent of our student loans back while we were in entry level positions in our careers. Because we did so, we were years behind in home purchasing and retirement investment. We have no regrets. We were adults and made our choices. To us, the lowest kind of person is the one who is always looking for a free ride or someone else to pick up the tab.
SurferDoc on November 20, 2011 at 7:47 PM
I’m sorry. What’s “cold hearted” about pointing out that the majority of us took out student loans, then realizing that we had to PAY BACK the f**king money, getting jobs, and actually doing that? I paid my $25,000 student loan off in 3 years. I have had a couple of car loans which I paid off well before it was time.
I am an adult. I realize that if I borrow money, I am obliged to pay it back. I do not ask my Mommy and Daddy for hand outs. I do not expect the government to “take care of me.” I take care of myself. I received a degree that actually gets me a job. I work my ass off in a company with very little recognition of my work ethic. I am damn good at my job.
And yes, I KNEW at 18 years of age that when I was taking out student loans to get a degree, I was REQUIRED to pay them back. Perhaps my parents spent a little too much time teaching me to have my money by the balls, but at least I learned how to be an adult. I can’t honestly say that I know any kid at 18 now who is quite that self aware. And that makes me sad.
mjk on November 20, 2011 at 7:55 PM
Here’s an idea. Hoe about pegging the amount of student loans to the exact same percentage of a specific degree program at a specific school to the percentage of graduates from that program at that school who are working in the degree field within 5 years. It that is say 30%, then only 30% of the cost is cover-able with student loans. That means to get a degree in something like women studies or queer musicology, you are likely to have to pay for it yourself. Schools would eventually drop worthless degree programs which exist now only for the purpose of collecting the easy student loan money.
MikeA on November 20, 2011 at 8:01 PM
So the OWS crowd was against the bailouts until they were for them? And then they will be against them again? And now there are leaders of this group that hole up in a pricey Manhattan hotel room at night and then come out and protest- themselves? I’m so confused.
lynncgb on November 20, 2011 at 8:04 PM
Why should we bail them out when they don’t want to work?
Dollayo on November 20, 2011 at 8:06 PM
I never said to bail them out…I said the system is broken. You say you paid $25, 000 back in 3 years. I assure you, for most graduates, that is impossible. You paid in excess of $1, 000 per month with a job you got from a Bachelor’s? Good for you, but that’s not going too happen with 99% of students…and $25k is what most state colleges charge PER year these days. Again, unless one has rich parents or an old college fund building over years, the total is gonna be closer to $50k or higher.
It’s not a simple issue that can be boiled down to, I realize I’m supposed to pay my bills like a responsible adult. THAT is where we sound dumb. How many people do you know that actually work in fields where they got their degrees?? I know of a handful personally…most others discovered that without graduate school and more debts, they couldn’t get a reasonable job with reasonable pay.
TheBlueSite on November 20, 2011 at 8:10 PM
If student loans had a stronger cut-off, then I bet schools would think twice about tuition rates. Some prestigious schools with billion dollar endowments are churning out Ethnic/Sexuality majors, who can’t earn $30k, but owe over $100k.
Schools have to be held liable for loan money if graduates don’t pay back. If your graduates are on the hook for tuition they can’t afford, the government shouldn’t be engaged in perpetuating the problem.
amazingmets on November 20, 2011 at 8:12 PM
It may as well say:
REWARD ME
FOR MY BAD
BEHAVIOR
Crusty on November 20, 2011 at 8:38 PM
Exactly. I always enjoy your writing, ajacksonian.
CTSherman on November 20, 2011 at 8:39 PM
Actually, I think that’s what college is supposed to do.
if colleges teach facts, they cure ignorance. If they teach critical thinking, they fix stupid. If they teach liberalism, they intrench stupid. Of course, some are not teachable. As Kipling says “the child’s fingers go wabbling back to the fire.” – Copybook Headings
Old Country Boy on November 20, 2011 at 8:40 PM
I know you probably don’t mean to sound so intolerant. My daughter is just finishing her 4 years at university. Yes she has a huge ($250K) loan. Yes, she’s in the liberal arts college.
But only because her university doesn’t offer a business degree. So she’s doing a double major in Economics and Anthroplogy. And, oh, by the way, she had a stroke at 19 and is doing everything she can to graduate with her class.
Not all lib arts students are twits.
Chitownmom on November 20, 2011 at 8:41 PM
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