Fox News poll: Gingrich 23, Romney 22, Cain 15

posted at 7:55 pm on November 16, 2011 by Allahpundit

So here’s the game we’re playing this week.

GOP primary voters see Romney (26 percent) and Cain (25 percent) as the most likeable Republican contenders. They view Paul (15 percent) and Bachmann (12 percent) as the least likeable. Cain ties with Bachmann as the second least likeable (12 percent), putting him in the unique position of making the top three in both likeable and unlikeable groups.

When asked who they would trust most with nuclear weapons, nearly twice as many primary voters say Gingrich than Romney (30 percent and 17 percent respectively). Those voters would least trust Paul (13 percent), Bachmann (11 percent) and Cain (10 percent) with nukes.

What about electability? GOP primary voters overwhelmingly see Romney as the Republican with the best chance of beating Barack Obama in the general election. Thirty-seven percent of primary voters think Romney is the most electable candidate. That’s double the number that says Gingrich (18 percent) and Cain (17 percent). Three percent of GOP primary voters think none of the Republicans can beat Obama.

Fully 60 percent of primary voters say they might still change their minds, including nearly seven in 10 Romney supporters(!). The good news for Cain is that 52 percent think the women who accused him of harassment are being motivated by money or politics versus just 25 percent who think they’re telling the truth. The bad news is that 23 percent say the charges are enough to disqualify him and another 43 percent say they need more information to decide. He’s down nine points overall this month. As for Perry, he was at 19 percent in September, 10 percent last month, and … seven percent this month, just one point ahead of Bachmann. Seven percent is where he is in Iowa right now too. Barring a total collapse by both Gingrich and Cain, remind me again how he wins the caucuses and catapults himself back into a two-man race with Romney.

Actually, here’s a freaky deaky scenario for you via the Daily Caller, but one which I’ve been thinking about myself: What if Ron Paul wins Iowa? He’s already at 19 percent in one poll, a single thin point behind Cain. If he’s close the last week before the caucuses, Paulnuts in Iowa will be turbo-charged to turn out for him and pull the upset. If that happens, he’ll get a bounce heading into New Hampshire — and he’s already second there too, albeit a very distant second to Romney. New Hampshire famously loves dark horses and mavericks so maybe he pulls the upset there too, and before you know it Ron Paul’s the nominee and we’re suddenly the party of “friendship” with Iran. No no, I kid. A Paul win in Iowa would, I take it, be Romney’s dream come true because it would finally break down the last resistance among Mitt-hating mainstream Republicans to voting for him. If there’s a viable Not Romney to vote for in New Hampshire, South Carolina, or Florida, that’s a tough call; if there’s just Mitt and Ron Paul, well, we’ll have to suck it up. Exit question one: Will Team Romney quietly send the Mittheads out to caucus for Paul on January 3? Exit question two: Did I read that blockquote correctly? The most likable candidate in the Republican field isn’t Herman Cain but … Mitt Romney? Good lord.

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As if Hot Airheads didn’t see this coming. Go Newt!

mike_NC9 on November 16, 2011 at 8:59 PM

Gluttons for punishment…

True_King on November 16, 2011 at 8:59 PM

. A mandate is the only way it will work from a risk pooling perspective.

bazil9 on November 16, 2011 at 8:54 PM

I agree..But two more thoughts..(1) Does the Constitution of the US mandate Americans have to buy something (2) Team Obie have given a lot of waivers..Why do cetain groups get waivers?..:)

Dire Straits on November 16, 2011 at 9:01 PM

The base does like him, he has the highest favorables.

No, it doesn’t. You know that, and it bothers you, which is why you “preach” here so often. Romney always seem to be stuck somewhere between 17%-25%, even with all the money and even with years of “he’s the guy” stuff.

So whats the solution then?

nswider on November 16, 2011 at 8:58 PM

The usual hold-the-nose routine.

ddrintn on November 16, 2011 at 9:04 PM

Perry is on Hannity pushing his McCongress idea. :-)

Punchenko on November 16, 2011 at 9:06 PM

So who is? If Mitt is a fate worse then death for you guys, whose the guy?

nswider on November 16, 2011 at 8:44 PM

The Lawn Gnome.

Sorry, I couldn’t resist… :)

On a more serious note, AllahP please pass on a message to Patrick that he put the Lawn Gnome against Romney in his next Hot Air poll. I am ready to wager that Lawn Gnome will beat Romney by a large margin.

TheRightMan on November 16, 2011 at 9:06 PM

ddrintn on November 16, 2011 at 9:04 PM

Your confusing the “who would you vote for overall ” number, which is 25 and favorables, an internal number about who people like. Romney is consistently in the 60′s as far as likability. Its a different metric. I dont “preach” here just like the Cain, Newt and Perry people dont “preach”. Im sharing my opinion about what I think and how I see things, i thought thats what this whole commenting thing is about.

nswider on November 16, 2011 at 9:07 PM

Perry is on Hannity pushing his McCongress idea. :-)

Punchenko on November 16, 2011 at 9:06 PM

Pretty good snark there..:)

Dire Straits on November 16, 2011 at 9:08 PM

Dire Straits on November 16, 2011 at 9:01 PM

That is the problem-mandates. I just was pointing out why and they all know it. A friend of mine is an accountant in MA. Tax time- everyone must supply her with a certificate of coverage that the state excepts or DING! Penalized on your taxes.

Yes, BO did give waivers. Again, picking and choosing. If you look atthe list of those granted waivers…service industry and insurance industry. Why? Most restaurants, hotels ect.. offer something called mini med plans. They are limited medical benefit plans and do not meet Obamacare regs. They would have been wiped out if not for the waivers. So would the Ins Co’s. that offer them.

Check out the waiver list.

bazil9 on November 16, 2011 at 9:08 PM

TheRightMan on November 16, 2011 at 9:06 PM

Hey if we were the only people voting, if the Country was just HotAir commentators I would just go with whoever you guys pick. But this isnt the Country, it doesnt even represent most of the party. Besides, you guys cant even agree on a guy, it changes day to day.

nswider on November 16, 2011 at 9:09 PM

Your confusing the “who would you vote for overall ” number, which is 25 and favorables, an internal number about who people like. Romney is consistently in the 60′s as far as likability. Its a different metric.

nswider on November 16, 2011 at 9:07 PM

Which then makes “likability” irrelevant. Romney can be “liked” by the base then after Obama hands him his backside a year from now.

ddrintn on November 16, 2011 at 9:10 PM

bazil9 on November 16, 2011 at 9:08 PM

Nice post..:)

PS..I am for ditching Obie care and going to a free market system..:)

Dire Straits on November 16, 2011 at 9:10 PM

ddrintn on November 16, 2011 at 9:10 PM

Its important for the “second choice factor”, if your desired candidate isnt the guy, whose the fall back? Thats the question for most people. Your right Romney isnt most peoples number one, but hes a lot of peoples number two, thats what hes banking on and thats why the likability number matters. If this were Perry in the lead in the same situation as Romney I would be saying the exact same thing, its just the numbers.

nswider on November 16, 2011 at 9:13 PM

Hey if we were the only people voting, if the Country was just HotAir commentators I would just go with whoever you guys pick. But this isnt the Country, it doesnt even represent most of the party.

nswider on November 16, 2011 at 9:09 PM

Probably not, but then the GOP might have had more success in 2008 if it had been more like Hot Airians and less like David Frum.

ddrintn on November 16, 2011 at 9:14 PM

Your right Romney isnt most peoples number one, but hes a lot of peoples number two, thats what hes banking on and thats why the likability number matters. If this were Perry in the lead in the same situation as Romney I would be saying the exact same thing, its just the numbers.

nswider on November 16, 2011 at 9:13 PM

Romney is George Bush in 1980 without a Ronald Reagan.

ddrintn on November 16, 2011 at 9:15 PM

ddrintn on November 16, 2011 at 9:14 PM

I honestly dont think it mattered who we ran, I think Romney would have done better in the general, maybe even won, but you have to think back to that time. There was a lot of Bush fatigue in the base and the Country, McCain fumbled and shut down his campaign during the financial crisis, Obama was painted as the second coming. There was this cult like wave I dont think anyone could have penetrated. I dont think thats a fair comparison 2008 and 2012.

nswider on November 16, 2011 at 9:16 PM

Dire Straits on November 16, 2011 at 9:10 PM

Thanks Dire. It can be overwhelming to understand. I just want people to have facts.

Make sure you drill your agent :)

bazil9 on November 16, 2011 at 9:16 PM

ddrintn on November 16, 2011 at 9:15 PM

Ok thats your view, Im really not out to change your opinion, Im just trying to present another argument for people on the fence.

nswider on November 16, 2011 at 9:17 PM

Mitt Romney has standards applied to him that are not applied to any other candidate. Now because he didnt say anything about a state decision years after leaving office thats tantamount to support. But when Gingrich supports individual mandates, also pertinent to Obamacare, and he says nothing during the Obamacare fight, he gets a pass.

nswider on November 16, 2011 at 8:58 PM

Out of all the flip flops, Romney stubbornly stands by his failed Romneycare. If there is anything he would get a pass on, it would be him saying, “I tried, but it doesn’t work at the state level and it won’t work at the Federal level”. He refuses.

The standards applied to your little New England liberal are his own creation. He can’t touch the reforms Gingrich has made in his career, he just has excuses.

Daemonocracy on November 16, 2011 at 9:18 PM

I honestly dont think it mattered who we ran

nswider on November 16, 2011 at 9:16 PM

That’s the same line moderates always use after their guy gets shellacked in the general.

ddrintn on November 16, 2011 at 9:20 PM

Daemonocracy on November 16, 2011 at 9:18 PM

He has said he wouldnt implement Romneycare on a nationwide basis and that it wouldnt work on a federal level. “My little New England Liberal” come on man, you dont have to use hateful condescension in every post to make your point. You like Gingrich. Ok, well hes not exactly a super conservative guy either, but your willing to overlook certain issues because you think hes a superior candidate. The same applies for me in regards to Romney. There are “hold your nose” aspects to each of these guys, I just think overall hes a better candidate. Thats it.

nswider on November 16, 2011 at 9:23 PM

Ok thats your view, Im really not out to change your opinion, Im just trying to present another argument for people on the fence.

nswider on November 16, 2011 at 9:17 PM

This is a Conservative blog so your “arguments” fall on deaf ears here. Romney isn’t even a blip on every preferred candidate survey taken on this site for the simple reason that he is not a Conservative. There are no fence sitters when it comes to Romney here; if people here end up supporting him, it because all others have self destructed. You will find better luck at the Frum Forum.

Daemonocracy on November 16, 2011 at 9:23 PM

Besides, you guys cant even agree on a guy, it changes day to day.

nswider on November 16, 2011 at 9:09 PM

It’s called vetting.

Personally, I don’t like the cycling through the Not-Romneys, which has led to several “Flavors of the Month”. I think the choice is clear – Perry – but then I am biased. :)

Unfortunately, Romney is not going through any form of vetting. Isn’t it strange that we have raked through every record of the Not-Romneys but we fail to look into “Mr. Inevitable”?

The Democrats will gladly do it for us if Romney does win the nomination. And it won’t be pretty, nswider.

And please don’t expect me to be defending him here. I will be polishing my lawn gnome.

TheRightMan on November 16, 2011 at 9:23 PM

ddrintn on November 16, 2011 at 9:20 PM

McCain wasnt my guy.

nswider on November 16, 2011 at 9:23 PM

Make sure you drill your agent :)

bazil9 on November 16, 2011 at 9:16 PM

Thanks for the tip..:)

Dire Straits on November 16, 2011 at 9:24 PM

TheRightMan on November 16, 2011 at 9:23 PM

Your kidding right? Romney hasnt been vetted? Seriously? Hes all the white house goes after, hes it, none of the other candidates, just him. They launched whichmitt.com to slam him because they want to take him out in the primaries. Google mitt romney, look at the 10′s of thousands of news stories and you tell me if they are positive or negative. Democrats are going to take all of these guys apart.. ok you know what ok, lets nominate Perry. Im sure the DNC is going to leave the guy alone, your right it has to be Perry. Hes the only one who can win. Perry has been thoroughly vetted so lets go with that. I give up.

nswider on November 16, 2011 at 9:28 PM

Daemonocracy on November 16, 2011 at 9:23 PM

Please don’t be too hard on nswider.

Quite a number of commenters have said it and I am also slowly recognizing it. She (I presume) is one of the better Romney supporters here. She argues passionately for Romney without insults unlike our dear csdeven.

So, nswider, accept this as a compliment from me: we disagree on candidates but I respect your approach.

TheRightMan on November 16, 2011 at 9:28 PM

nswider on November 16, 2011 at 9:23 PM

He is a New England liberal, that is the truth, you just choose to either mislead or are naive. I condescend to liberalism and I am not sorry that offends you.

Romneycare is a failure yet he refuses to acknowledge this. He flip flops on every key issue except this one when it would be the right thing to do. He said he is proud of it and claimed he “likes mandates”. You cry on this site as if Romney is being unfairly targeted and I am getting sick of it because every bit of criticism he gets is based off of things he said and his very own record.

Name one key conservative issue he hasn’t played both sides on and has been an advocate for throughout his career.

It’s not that people don’t like him, it’s that we don’t trust him.

Daemonocracy on November 16, 2011 at 9:30 PM

TheRightMan on November 16, 2011 at 9:28 PM

Thanks man, like Ive said a million times, if its Perry in the end, Ill be for him 100 percent. Ill max out. Lets just let it play out.

nswider on November 16, 2011 at 9:30 PM

TheRightMan on November 16, 2011 at 9:28 PM

I agree nswider is a very good poster..:)

Dire Straits on November 16, 2011 at 9:32 PM

So, nswider, accept this as a compliment from me: we disagree on candidates but I respect your approach.

TheRightMan on November 16, 2011 at 9:28 PM

I am fed up with these people acting as if Romney is some sort of victim here. There are no Double Standards, the criticism people have of Romney is based on substance and for anyone to say otherwise is disingenuous and I personally find it offensive.

Daemonocracy on November 16, 2011 at 9:34 PM

Daemonocracy on November 16, 2011 at 9:30 PM

I dont cry on this website. Good lord. I dont know why you take such a sneering approach to everything. Im not going to go issue by issue with you, Im not. Im respectful to you, I have been even as you havent shown me the same courtesy. Theres what, one or two Romney supporters on here in total? Were a part of the party, were a big part of the party, Im just trying to represent a view point that isnt really represented well on this site and I enjoy conversing with 99 percent of everyone on here. Everyone knows whoever wins Im going to back 100 percent, I just think the best candidate to win is Romney and I dont want people to stay home in the general if its him. Thats all.

nswider on November 16, 2011 at 9:35 PM

Dire Straits on November 16, 2011 at 9:32 PM

Thanks buddy appreciate it. I dont mean to come off preachy, I just dont want people staying home in the general.

nswider on November 16, 2011 at 9:37 PM

Thanks buddy appreciate it. I dont mean to come off preachy, I just dont want people staying home in the general.

nswider on November 16, 2011 at 9:37 PM

Trust me..Most folks will go to the polls..I know I will..:)

Dire Straits on November 16, 2011 at 9:40 PM

Your kidding right? Romney hasnt been vetted? Seriously?

nswider on November 16, 2011 at 9:28 PM

Unfortunately, I am serious, nswider.

The Obama Team hasn’t even started on Romney.

They’ve been stockpiling oppo. research on him for the last three years. He is the one they are most prepared for so it is in their interest to allow him to skate through the primary.

Contrast how they’ve been handling Romney to the attacks they launched on Perry or Palin or even Cain.

You see, unlike the GOP Establishment, Dems know that the only time the GOP beats them is when they are motivated to vote for a candidate. Not when they have to make a lesser of two evils choice.

- In 2006, the GOP ran with “Vote to keep us in power because Pelosi will be worse”. Guess who won?

- In 2008, the GOP ran with “Vote for McCain, Obama will be so horrible. Think of the Supreme Court.” Guess who won?

- In 2010, voters across the nation were presented with several dynamic candidates that were running on the Tea Party platform. They were excited to vote for the likes of Rubio, Lee, etc.. We won the House and several state governorships and legislatures. Kicking Pelosi out was a bonus.

Romney will lose vs. Obama no matter how it is permuted.

TheRightMan on November 16, 2011 at 9:40 PM

So, nswider, accept this as a compliment from me: we disagree on candidates but I respect your approach.

TheRightMan on November 16, 2011 at 9:28 PM

I 100% agree.

CannedTomatoes on November 16, 2011 at 9:40 PM

I suggest people go on youtube and look at the various videos of Romney taking his various positions over the years. It’s quite stunning, and sad.

In his race with Romney in 1994 Ted Kennedy put his own little ad together of such clips. Romney was flummoxed, and fell apart. He still has no response to this line of attack.

Obama’s path to victory will be to caricature the Republican as a non-Republican, i.e., a kind of amorphous nothing worth not much respect, as opposed to a stalwart something you may not agree with but you must respect. Romney’s candidacy morally negates the very purpose of a race, of the contrast, of the clash of ideology, and in turn the rationale for unseating an incumbent for something else different. “Who knows what position Romney will take next?” Obama will ask.

Kennedy figured this out. Obama will do what Kennedy did: reduce Romney to a kind of pretender in his own race, someone who isn’t even genuine or real enough to fear or take seriously, someone beneath contempt.

rrpjr on November 16, 2011 at 9:41 PM

Dire Straits on November 16, 2011 at 9:40 PM

The truth of the matter is, Im not super thrilled with Romney, I kind of made myself that way because Im just seeing the dynamics out there and I know where the wind is blowing you know? I wanted Paul Ryan, my dad supports Newt and my sister supports Ron Paul (were still trying to figure out where she went wrong, lol). So this is just an outlet for me to try to argue and justify my choice a bit and hope people dont become so hardened they stay home.

nswider on November 16, 2011 at 9:43 PM

Allah, Allah, Allah – you are WAY overthinking things.

The GOP nominee will be either Romney, Gingrich, or Perry – in that order of likelihood.

Cain, Bachman, Paul, Santorum, Hunstman – they are clown shows – not serious candidates and never were.

The GOP always nominates someone who’s competent (or should be competent) and someone who’s not too far out of the mainstream of America.

Again … Romney, Gingrich, Perry … bank that.

HondaV65 on November 16, 2011 at 9:43 PM

TheRightMan on November 16, 2011 at 9:40 PM

Its going to be a fight no matter who it is RightMan, if its Perry they are going to turn him into a George W Bush stereotype who loves to electrocute mentally challenged people. Every candidate is going to get hammered, Romney will yes, but they all will. Honestly, Im exhausted from making the case, lol. I almost want it to be your guy at this point. Constantly arguing with people is draining. Much more fun when everyones on the same team.

CannedTomatoes on November 16, 2011 at 9:40 PM

Thanks so much!

nswider on November 16, 2011 at 9:46 PM

HondaV65 on November 16, 2011 at 9:43 PM

Yes, I agree with that top three.

nswider on November 16, 2011 at 9:50 PM

A thoughtful and balanced endorsement of Newt by William Jacobson on Legal Insurrection (in headlines above).

http://legalinsurrection.com/2011/11/why-i-support-newt-gingrich/

Newt has made some policy mistakes, but that is to be expected from someone who has been so forthcoming with ideas and solutions, not just polled talking points. Some of those positions have been distorted and misrepresented, but some of the criticisms are fair, as Newt would acknowledge.

We never get a perfect candidate. We choose among those who are running. So don’t tell me about all Newt’s supposed heresies unless you are prepared to make the case why one of the other current candidates stacks up better. Among those who are running, no other candidate measures up to Newt.

rrpjr on November 16, 2011 at 9:53 PM

nswider on November 16, 2011 at 9:43 PM

Nice post..I think a lot of folks are jumping around..Plus there are a lot of folks who I think don’t know who they support..This is going to be an interesting primary..A lot more exciting than 2008..IMHO..:)

Dire Straits on November 16, 2011 at 9:55 PM

Ron Paul is the one candidate that would guarantee that I’d skip the presidential part of the ballot in November 2012.
I will NEVER vote for the Chief Ronulan for ANY office.

annoyinglittletwerp on November 16, 2011 at 8:44 PM

Heh. Well, you may have already beamed-off, but you’re not saying that you’d vote for Obama, are you? (You know I was strictly talking about the general election, right?) Or, you just wouldn’t vote for the office of POTUS?

He might come from Bizzaro-Krypton, or wherever, but I still think he’s a step up from a pure socialist who hates the USA. My opinion, only.

RedCrow on November 16, 2011 at 9:57 PM

Dire Straits on November 16, 2011 at 9:55 PM

I think so. I think there are going to be some big surprises coming down the pike pretty soon. I mean, what if that scenario Allah talked about is right and Ron Paul wins Iowa? Then what? Things could get pretty crazy pretty quickly.

nswider on November 16, 2011 at 9:58 PM

nswider on November 16, 2011 at 9:58 PM

Let’s hope Ron Paul doesn’t win Iowa..But it is going to be very competitive GOP Primary I predict..:)

PS..We just don’t need to let MSM pick the GOP candidate before the primary even begins..Let’s vote first..:)

Dire Straits on November 16, 2011 at 10:03 PM

Dire Straits on November 16, 2011 at 10:03 PM

Absolutely and I think thats where a lot of Romney resentment comes from is people feel like they are being force fed by the establishment instead of being able to make a choice for themselves. I think a lot of the Romney anger is anger at the establishment truthfully.

nswider on November 16, 2011 at 10:06 PM

If Paul wins Iowa, that means we are going to win NH as well.

Spathi on November 16, 2011 at 7:58 PM

Paul did ok in Iowa Caucus in 08′, and he got creamed in the NH primary.

V-rod on November 16, 2011 at 10:11 PM

nswider on November 16, 2011 at 10:06 PM

I see your point..Good point also..:)

Dire Straits on November 16, 2011 at 10:12 PM

Paul did ok in Iowa Caucus in 08′, and he got creamed in the NH primary.

V-rod on November 16, 2011 at 10:11 PM

Different dynamic this year. 2008, the independents overwhelmingly voted in the Democratic primary. GOP primary is the only game in town this year.

That being said, I doubt that it will be enough for Paul to overcome Romney’s “favorite son” appeal.

JohnGalt23 on November 16, 2011 at 10:15 PM

I think a lot of the Romney anger is anger at the establishment truthfully.

nswider on November 16, 2011 at 10:06 PM

I truly cannot stand the man — most especially during the debate giggle-fest meltdown where he was telling Perry to let others talk. I’m sorry, but Romney would not make for a strong Commander-in-Chief.

Punchenko on November 16, 2011 at 10:23 PM

nswider on November 16, 2011 at 9:35 PM

I have no problem with you supporting Romney, he seems electable according to the current polls and if he is the nominee I will support him in the general.

The concerns and suspicions over him are very real however – he is not a victim.

My sneering approach comes from seeing comments like this:

Seriously. I mean seriously? There were no death panels for Romney care. Read this by heritage foundation if you want to know what Romneycare actually was:

http://www.heritage.org/research/commentary/2006/01/mitts-fit

nswider on November 16, 2011 at 8:25 PM

THIS is what Romneycare has become, and he remains proud of it.

and then there is this:

So, almost a decade after leaving office, Massachusetts adds and changes the legislation and thats Romneys fault. Ok then.

nswider on November 16, 2011 at 8:37 PM

Yes it is his fault as he built this monster with its massive cost overruns that made rationing health care a necessity. He is proud of it, or so he said in a recent debate. Why won’t he disown Romneycare? It was never a success.

As for whining/crying, here is you in another thread:

I love how every thread, whether about Cain, Perry or Gingrich, inevitably turns into an anti Romney thread. Cain or Perry have some sort of epic gaffe, the response is “yeah but ROMNEY is the enemy!’ Newt is now the new savior, who is no more conservative then Romney, but hes NOT ROMNEY, so I guess thats the criteria now. I guess me and Ann Coulter will just sit in our little RINO corner while you guys hash this out.

nswider on November 15, 2011 at 10:51 PM

Not the only time you’ve posted that. Yes, there is a strong anti-Romney vote as seen in every poll and their suspicion is perfectly warranted. The very idea that people here are supporting Gingrich now speaks volumes about the distrust of Romney and that is his own fault.

Another one:

Yeah, I mean the bottom line is that I get frustrated by the fact that instead of people promoting and defending their candidate, what they do instead is gleefully tear apart other candidates. Romney most predominantly. Whoever is in the general Im supporting, even if if was Paul or Huntsman, because the alternative is frightening.

nswider on November 15, 2011 at 11:00 PM

Personal attacks are uncalled for, but it is his record and flip flops which are targeted the most and believe me, even though he is not a popular candidate here, he is not unfairly targeted compared to the others.

You also brushed off Romney’s well documented flip flops on the right to life as if it were nothing in another thread and quoted his discredited story about seeing an embryo killed in a lab (in the link I provided, the scientist denies ever having a conversation about this with Romney). You don’t just expect people to brush something like this aside and take his word for it, not on an issue which means literal life and death to so many.

It grows tiresome hearing defenses of Romney which amount to nothing more than “come on guys, he’s not such a bad guy”. Even Gingrich has a record with brilliance in it for Conservatives to embrace and he was avoided like the plague not too long ago. Romney has no such record, just polls a year before the election which show him in a dead heat with Obama.

But no, I will not stay home in the general. I don’t think Romney has any real convictions but I am hoping he is enough of a careerist that he won’t block true reform should Paul Ryan and Rand Paul send it his way. Hopefully he was just faking it in Mass. instead of faking it now.

Daemonocracy on November 16, 2011 at 10:29 PM

I truly cannot stand the man — most especially during the debate giggle-fest meltdown where he was telling Perry to let others talk. I’m sorry, but Romney would not make for a strong Commander-in-Chief.

Punchenko on November 16, 2011 at 10:23 PM

And then there was his campaign outright lying about Perry wanting to take SS away from Seniors after their first debate when he said no such thing.

Daemonocracy on November 16, 2011 at 10:31 PM

Your kidding right? Romney hasnt been vetted? Seriously?

Agree. Romney has been on the national scene for many years now. And his Mormonism, flip-flops, business dealings, etc. have had plenty of time and effort spent upon them.

I completely, totally, 100%, without question, no further explanation needed understand the problems many of the right have with his positions on the issues. I get it. No need to mention it again. Okay.

Perry has already grenaded I don’t know how he comes back in this race. Cain is in the process of collapsing in upon himself as we speak. Gingrich is gaining cred’ and poll numbers at this time. Newt’s a very flawed character but he, along with Romney, are just about the only two serious contenders right now who can speak in coherent sentences and not make complete arses of themselves in public forums or with interviewers.

Neither are Reagan and, hate to break it to everyone, there’s not a “Reagan” running on the GOP side in this cycle. There just isn’t one so stop trying to make any of them into one.

I hope down the road we have some hard decisions to make between, say, a Rubio and a McConnell in the primaries. But we don’t have that right now and we have to fight the political enemy with what we have available to us.

JoeinTX on November 16, 2011 at 10:46 PM

Daemonocracy on November 16, 2011 at 10:29 PM

Those few quotes are evidence of me whining on threads? Most threads do, whether they are about Cain, Perry or whomever turn into anti Romney threads. Its also true that the same standards applied to Romney are not applied to any of the other candidates. Newt has flipped, Perry flipped from an actual registered Democrat to a Republican and thats never talked about. Romney said in the debate hes proud that Massachusetts has the lowest uninsured rate in the Country, he has also said hes unhappy with what has been added onto the bill. No I dont expect the doctor to admit he was so flippant about embryos, I believe Romney. I went to your link at that time, but its a he said/he said, you have to pick who to believe, you picked the doctor, I didnt.

Good lord this is a long post, the other stuff is true, everyone excuses their own candidates whether its immigration (Perry), global warming, individual mandates (Gingrich) but if Romney holds similar positions to these other “conservatives” hes the only one who answers for it. While you were googling through my answers, which why you would bother is kind of beyond me, if this is the best you can come up with as evidence of me whining I must be doing pretty darn well.

nswider on November 16, 2011 at 10:49 PM

Newt’s a very flawed character but he, along with Romney, are just about the only two serious contenders right now who can speak in coherent sentences

JoeinTX on November 16, 2011 at 10:46 PM

So Cain, Bachmann and Santorum don’t generally speak in coherent sentences?

Igor R. on November 16, 2011 at 10:50 PM

Newt is worse than Romney. An unstable statist, a progressive, a lover of illegal aliens.

Igor R. on November 16, 2011 at 10:52 PM

So Cain, Bachmann and Santorum don’t generally speak in coherent sentences?

Did you miss the part where I said “serious contenders?”

As in the people with the money, organization, and poll standing to actually last through the primary season?

JoeinTX on November 16, 2011 at 10:59 PM

Cain is a serious contender. Or will be again after Newt disintegrates, which is a matter of, I don’t know, two weeks.

Igor R. on November 16, 2011 at 11:01 PM

So Cain, Bachmann and Santorum don’t generally speak in coherent sentences?

Igor R. on November 16, 2011 at 10:50 PM

Cain does not.
Bachmann does. (I support her)
Santorum might, but I do not think anyone has been capable of listening to him long enough to determine.
You forgot Perry, and I think he does speak coherently with a few minor glitches.

astonerii on November 16, 2011 at 11:03 PM

Cain speaks quite coherently other than that one time on abortion and when he is caught off guard (which is almost every time) on foreign policy. And yes, Perry does too. They pretty much all do.

Igor R. on November 16, 2011 at 11:05 PM

nswider on November 16, 2011 at 10:49 PM

The problem with your argument that Romney is unfairly held to account for his positions and his flip-flops is Romney.

Romney is a likable guy. Happy, smart, rich, a real gentleman.

But when he talks, you cannot feel any heart in him at all. When he changes his position, there is no reason other than political posturing. He has a rock solid record, and it is entirely made up of progressive initiatives. When that is who you are, how your perceived to make decisions, and what your record shows, there really is no hope of you winning over conservative voters.

Conservative voters want someone that they trust, and that requires you to have your heart in the game and worn proudly on your sleeve. That requires that you give plausible accounts for your changes of policy (heart) that shows that you matured into your new position and were not temporarily forced into it to make those freaking rubes vote for you. It requires that your past record somewhat match up to your promised future record. We are not giving you freebie points to put into your weak aspects just because you worked in a progressive state.

astonerii on November 16, 2011 at 11:11 PM

nswider on November 16, 2011 at 10:49 PM

There are a number of threads of you whining, I’m going to dig them up. One thread in particular you whined about people attacking Romney on the first page of the debate thread, so I checked it out, and didn’t find a single attack.

Newt has flipped, Perry flipped from an actual registered Democrat to a Republican and thats never talked about.

Statements like this are why I have little patience with you. Newt has flipped, but his record puts Romney’s to shame. Perry was a conservative Demcorat in the 80s, it ABSOLUTELY was talked about exhaustively on this blog so once again you either being disingenuous or blind. Perry again beats Romney when it comes to record, was always a social conservative and he switched parties when most Reagan Democrats switched parties while Romney claimed to be an independent during Reagan/Bush and that he “had no interest in going back to Reagan/Bush” when he ran for Senate in the 90s. Every finger you point in defense of Romney leaves 4 more pointing back at you.

Romney said in the debate hes proud that Massachusetts has the lowest uninsured rate in the Country, he has also said hes unhappy with what has been added onto the bill.

Taxpayer money from the other 49 states is what insures the people of Massachusetts, what a wonderful thing to be proud of. Romneycare was a disaster in the making but I suppose it’s easier to leave office and point fingers.

No I dont expect the doctor to admit he was so flippant about embryos, I believe Romney. I went to your link at that time, but its a he said/he said, you have to pick who to believe, you picked the doctor, I didnt.

The Doctor wasn’t being flippant and had you truly read the link you would have noticed that Romney’s own statements and record don’t line up with when he supposedly became pro-life.

Good lord this is a long post, the other stuff is true, everyone excuses their own candidates whether its immigration (Perry), global warming, individual mandates (Gingrich) but if Romney holds similar positions to these other “conservatives” hes the only one who answers for it

There you go with your crying again. Perry didn’t excuse immigration, are you kidding? He plummeted in the polls because he stood by his in state tuition law and even insulted his base. That’s not making excuses. And again with Gingrich, he makes excuses but unlike Romney he has some serious conservative reform in his record which is why people are going to him now instead of the New England liberal. In case you hadn’t noticed (take the blinders off), Gingrich is answering for these positions right now since he recently entered the top tier and he’s been the object of ridicule here for a few years now…but poor Romney.

So you demonstrated clearly in this post you are a whiner and refuse to acknowledge that Romney’s record is shit compared to all the other candidates. You want to call them “conservatives” with quotation marks, then Romney is a “Republican” with quotation marks.

Everyone is so mean to Romney. :(

Not one key conservative issue has he not played both sides on and been a staunch advocate for throughout his career.

Daemonocracy on November 16, 2011 at 11:32 PM

Ron Paul is not my 1st, 2nd or even 3rd choice in the primary. But if it comes down to him versus Romney, I will vote for Ron Paul in heartbeat. No question about that whatsoever.

Anybody but Romney

Norwegian on November 16, 2011 at 11:56 PM

Good lord this is a long post, the other stuff is true, everyone excuses their own candidates whether its immigration (Perry), global warming, individual mandates (Gingrich) but if Romney holds similar positions to these other “conservatives” hes the only one who answers for it

I correct myself on this one, you were talking about the supporters excusing their candidates, not the candidates excusing themselves.

My point about whining still stands as Romney is absolutely not the only one who answers for it. An absurd charge if you actually read this site.

Romney has the weakest record, it’s as simple as that. You can equivocate as much as you like, but Romney will always come out looking worse when compared and contrasted with any of the other candidates.

Daemonocracy on November 16, 2011 at 11:58 PM

Romney is a likable guy. Happy, smart, rich, a real gentleman.

But when he talks, you cannot feel any heart in him at all.

Great points. I would love to have him as a neighbor. No question he’d have the best of privacy fences built between us and the neighbors would never hear a peep from his property. I do admire that about him. I’m the same way.

Heart? Heart. I feel Romney in this area. One’s Heart is their own and they don’t necessarily expect to convey that unto others. You can’t. And you guard yourself in doing so.

Romney is a flawed, generally right of center figure, running against a flawed and left of center figure who bears some of the same flaws of his opponent. He is closer to my heart and mind than the alternative.

I’m okay with that. I can vote for that. I can want more and do. But, in this cycle and for this fight, I can can do it.

JoeinTX on November 17, 2011 at 12:02 AM

The most likable candidate in the Republican field isn’t Herman Cain but … Mitt Romney? Good lord.

Gotta love it, Allah! :o)

g2825m on November 17, 2011 at 10:23 AM

Romney’s record:
Cut taxes in MA – Check

Closed loopholes and raised fees as Reagan did – Check

Voted pro-life bills as GOV – Check

Voted and eased 2nd Amendment bills in MA – Check
See here: “Massachusetts oldest, largest and premier pro-second amendment/gun rights group, Gun owners` Action League (GOAL) stated:“The bill was the greatest victory for gun owners since the passage of the gun control laws in 1998 (Chapter 180 of the Acts of 1998). It was a reform bill totally supported by GOAL. Press and media stories around the country got it completely wrong when claimed the bill was an extension of the ‘assault weapon’ ban”

Against illegal immigration – Check

Signed bill against Illegal Immigration Recv tuition breaks – Check

Build the complete fence along the border – Check

For Defense of Marriage Act – Check

For Cut, Cap, and Balance – Check

Pro expansion of the military and keeping GITMO open – Check

Drilling in ANWR – Check

Investing in new technologies for oil – Check

Develop energy technology like nuclear or liquefied coal – Check

Conservative Reagan could vote for…Reagan: “I’m not retreating an inch from where I was. But I also recognize this: There are some people who would have you so stand on principle that if you don’t get all that you’ve asked for from the legislature, why, you jump off the cliff with the flag flying. I have always figured that a half a loaf is better than none, and I know that in the democratic process you’re not going to always get everything you want. So, I think what they’ve misread is times in which I have compromised.”

g2825m on November 17, 2011 at 10:38 AM

I suggest people go on youtube and look at the various videos of Romney taking his various positions over the years. It’s quite stunning, and sad.

In his race with Romney in 1994 Ted Kennedy put his own little ad together of such clips. Romney was flummoxed, and fell apart. He still has no response to this line of attack.

Kennedy figured this out. Obama will do what Kennedy did: reduce Romney to a kind of pretender in his own race, someone who isn’t even genuine or real enough to fear or take seriously, someone beneath contempt.

rrpjr on November 16, 2011 at 9:41 PM

rrpjr still playin’ the hits of the 90′s… :o)

g2825m on November 17, 2011 at 11:23 AM

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