Brutal: Cain blanks on Libya, supports collective bargaining for public employee unions

posted at 5:29 pm on November 14, 2011 by Allahpundit

You won’t believe me until you click play but this is much worse than Perry’s brain lock at the debate last week. Perry lost his train of thought; Cain doesn’t have a train at all here, to the point where he needs confirmation from the interviewer of what Obama’s position on Libya actually was. Eventually he produces some boilerplate about not supporting the opposition until you’re sure who’s in it and of course not making a decision as president until he has all the information, which is a standard Cain fallback talking point whenever he gets in trouble on a question, but the first two minutes or so are pure agony. The board actually took pity on him, I think, by not following up. Imagine if they’d asked his opinion on Obama’s decision to ignore the War Powers Act. Remember, this is a guy who apparently wants to be considered for secretary of defense.

And that still only barely qualifies as the worst answer he gave today. Here’s what he told them when asked, predictably enough, about Scott Walker’s righteous crusade against public employee unions:

On the issue of collective bargaining, Cain said he supported the right of public employees to bargain collectively.

“But not collective hijacking. What I mean by that, if they have gotten so much for so many years and it’s going to bankrupt the state, I don’t think that’s good. It appears that in some instances, they really don’t care.”…

In an interview with the Journal Sentinel last month, Cain said that he was “right in the corner of Gov. Scott Walker 100%” in Walker’s battle with public employee unions.

Cain also appeared to be unclear on the issue of collective bargaining as it involves federal employees. Asked if he thought federal employees should have the ability to bargain collectively, Cain said: “They already have it, don’t they?”

Told they didn’t, he said, “They have unions.”

His candidacy’s now basically an experiment to see if there’s anything he could say about policy that grassroots conservatives wouldn’t ignore/forgive in the name of nominating a candidate who’s “authentic” instead of some slick RINO Beltway insider phony (many of whom at least oppose collective bargaining for PEUs). Is there anything? Or can any screw-up be dismissed so long as it’s “clarified” a few hours later, knowing full well that undecideds won’t be as forgiving if he pulls something like this in a debate against Obama? How steep is the authenticity grading curve here, exactly?

I was going to give you the clip of Bialek’s ex-boyfriend claiming today that she told him back in 1997 that Cain had done something inappropriate, but most of you will find this more important. (You can watch that vid here.) His polls have already started to slide from the allegations — Doug Schoen’s latest survey finds 53 percent believe the harassment charges are true, with independents splitting 46/27, and Politico’s new battleground poll finds his support among likely Republican voters cut in half in the span of eight days. So maybe none of this much matters anymore, except of course to Newt Gingrich.

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If/when America craters, historians will look back at what happened to Sarah Palin…

cane_loader on November 14, 2011 at 8:15 PM

Yup. You are on a roll tonight. I’m enjoying reading your posts, too.

Fallon on November 14, 2011 at 9:11 PM

Drop. Out. Now.

Ronnie on November 14, 2011 at 9:12 PM

chasdal on November 14, 2011 at 9:10 PM

Yawn…

idesign on November 14, 2011 at 9:12 PM

This stuff IS searchable on Google, and a lot of those comments WERE libel.

cane_loader on November 14, 2011 at 9:02 PM

i would just love for a public figure to sue over stuff on a internet chat board!! when’s he filing his suit against politico?? lol!!! hint: NEVER!!!!!!

chasdal on November 14, 2011 at 9:12 PM

And, you know what “equality” is?

It’s evaluating people based upon the content of their character, of who they are, what they reason and how, not upon the color of their skin or other cosmetic attributes (tall, short, fat, thin, pretty, ugly, brown, black, white, whatever).

Cain’s not been “lynched,” for Heaven’s sake, though I do agree that Politico has been a completely ugly turkey in how they’ve behaved toward and about him — but that isn’t unusual for the Left and Leftmedia as to ANY GOP candidate, policy, effort or person.

Cain’s had a very generous level of support of good wishes and best hopes for his success and he’s responded a bit poorly to that AND he’s been found to be not up to the expectations. I think most of us still consider him a very personable guy, an interesting person, and more. We just don’t consider him President.

Lourdes on November 14, 2011 at 9:14 PM

idesign on November 14, 2011 at 9:12 PM

as usual, you got nothing. go back over the C4P, they need you fill a spot in the circle jerk.

chasdal on November 14, 2011 at 9:15 PM

cane_loader on November 14, 2011 at 9:06 PM

morals and convictions my ass, you got so wrapped up in idol worship your world crumpled down. being disappointed is one thing, you cried because she’s not running?? and in your post you implied America was doomed and only she can save it. and this thread is full of ‘nistas just praying sarah will change her mind. you guys are certifiable.

chasdal on November 14, 2011 at 9:10 PM

I was not a Palinista. I hoped she didn’t run because of her high negatives.

But yet I too was sad the night she was talking to Levin. Because at one time she was my hope and she would still make an excellent President.

The media destroyed her on purpose and unfairly, like I’ve never seen in my lifetime.

Any fair minded person would reject that and be disgusted by it.

If not for Sarah, then for our cause. Because they were emboldened by what they did to Palin and are keeping it up with any conservative we will ever pick. Unless we pick one this time and shove it in their faces.

Elisa on November 14, 2011 at 9:15 PM

But – BUT, the overall effect – the drumbeat, WAS that of a lynching. And each of the commenters above did pile on. I hope some of them have stepped back and reconsidered how unfair some of their comments were to Herman Cain. This stuff IS searchable on Google, and a lot of those comments WERE libel.

cane_loader on November 14, 2011 at 9:02 PM

As one of those who took no short amount of pleasure in piling on ol’ Herm, let me say:

Boo Freaking Hoo!!

He’s running for our party’s nomination for POTUS. Nothing, and I mean NOTHING anyone on this board could do, Mssrs. Morrisey and Pundit included, would match what our nominee faces in the general election. If you can’t take the heat, then this ain’t the year to be a frontrunner. That ain’t lynching… that’s politics. And it is being played no worse than some of the very people who founded this country played it.

Go ahead… sue for libel. I imagine the discovery motions alone would be worth the price of admission.

JohnGalt23 on November 14, 2011 at 9:15 PM

I will tell you, I have noticed that Cain is pretty political in that he tries not to come down hard in theoreticals, and says he would consider the facts when he gets them.

You know, sharrukin, I actually like that in an executive. That’s why I haven’t bailed on Cain. I think he’s got a lot of potential to be an effective chief executive, especially with Newt as VP.

cane_loader on November 14, 2011 at 8:44 PM
————————–

really?? the “political” is what you like?? i thought cain’s big appeal was he was a “straight shooter”?? he tells it like it is?? now i see its cause he can give nuanced both sides type non-answer answers??

chasdal on November 14, 2011 at 9:06 PM

Let me walk back a word I used. The word I was looking for was not, “political” – it was politic.

Different word – different meaning.
I stand corrected.

Thank you, chasdal.

cane_loader on November 14, 2011 at 9:16 PM

Wow.

Just wow. Lets go through each candidate and tear em all apart for minor screw ups. The Media is salivating. They’ll take care of Romney for us when its all over right?

The man has core principles. And yet a couple of drawn out mistakes (or call them weaknesses) to reporters looking for dirt, and so many fall to the “ain’t ready for prime time” gutter.

Look at the INSTINCTS of each of the candidates. Frankly, the only appropriate leadership out there worthy of conservative support comes from Cain or Bachmann or Palin, or Santorum. But the establishment party as well as a Scared-To-Death Obama campaign would have them marginalized so he doesn’t have to face any of them.

You want the essence of Cain? Then watch this video from early in the year. You might get it.

Use of the video outside of linking to Youtube is allowed only with attribution.

Jason Gillman on November 14, 2011 at 9:18 PM

as usual, you I got nothing.

chasdal on November 14, 2011 at 9:15 PM

No kidding….

idesign on November 14, 2011 at 9:18 PM

You GOPer’s are f*****

From socialist to socialist…

True_King on November 14, 2011 at 9:20 PM

idesign on November 14, 2011 at 9:18 PM

see your trying to take treacher’s spot. keep practicing on the cutesy comments that only you find poignant.

chasdal on November 14, 2011 at 9:20 PM

Let me put a finer point on this, to be fair. I’m not going to take the time to single out the worst offenders in the attemped Cain lynching. So just because I quoted your commenter list, I’m not saying that each of those individuals was trying to lynch Cain.

cane_loader on November 14, 2011 at 9:02 PM

I don’t care much about your posts so I wasn’t interested enough to page up and find your “list”.

I will only say that I HOPE I’M ON IT since I’m the head “lyncher” of Herman Cain on HotAir and damned proud of it.

Guy’s unqualified as hell – and if pointing that out make me a “Lyncher” – I’ll wear that badge with pride.

But this is proof – as I’ve said all along – that Herman Cain is NO Conservative. He uses too much of the liberal lingo and race card dealing to be a true conservative.

HondaV65 on November 14, 2011 at 9:21 PM

Jason Gillman on November 14, 2011 at 9:18 PM

And here I thought he was out doing these shows to help me decide whether to vote for him.

Ronnie on November 14, 2011 at 9:21 PM

Some of us actually have convictions and sincerity, you know.

cane_loader on November 14, 2011 at 9:06 PM

After the multitude of crud I’ve read on this one site’s comments section alone by you Palin People, I’d say you were entirely wrong there in your self-promotion based upon “convictions and sincerity.”

Sincerely selfish, destructive on an interpersonal level, bullies, gossipers, cruel…that’s more likely. I suppose that could be called having “convictions” and being “sincere,” but it’s not an indication of responsible people nor of reasonable abilities to evaluate yourselves and others.

Lourdes on November 14, 2011 at 9:09 PM

You know what, THIS is what is going wrong with this site.

I am NOT, “You Palin People.” “You Palin People?” SCREW YOU AND THE HORSE YOU RODE IN UPON.

I am a voter discussing the candidates. But I highly resent being pigeonholed like you are trying to do. All of those accusations you just made about me are, #1, complete bull$hite and falsehood, and #2, they are absolute CRAP.

The whole piling on the “Palinistas” thing started what has been a very ugly 6 months here at HotAir.

If anyone is irresponsible, it’s you with your anti-”Palin People” invective, trying to accuse me of something I have not done.

You suck.

cane_loader on November 14, 2011 at 9:22 PM

Speaking of Palin, she has a golden opportunity to play kingmaker in December.

Lawdawg86 on November 14, 2011 at 9:24 PM

Cain also appeared to be unclear on the issue of collective bargaining as it involves federal employees. Asked if he thought federal employees should have the ability to bargain collectively, Cain said: “They already have it, don’t they?”

Told they didn’t, he said, “They have unions.”

“These go to ELEVEN.”

HondaV65 on November 14, 2011 at 9:24 PM

Wow. And his saving throw on the Libya question comes down not to where our interest lies in becoming involved in the conflict, but how he evaluates the “opposition.”

Terrific.

I guess he didn’t get that panel of experts together to advise him, yet.

I’d give him a pass if this was some relative esoterica about our trading policy with East Elbonia, or a gotcha on the number and placement of our defensive missiles in Europe. To not have a working grasp of this very current event is freakish.

TexasDan on November 14, 2011 at 9:24 PM

Wow.

Just wow. Lets go through each candidate and tear em all apart for minor screw ups. The Media is salivating. They’ll take care of Romney for us when its all over right?

The man has core principles. And yet a couple of drawn out mistakes (or call them weaknesses) to reporters looking for dirt, and so many fall to the “ain’t ready for prime time” gutter.

Look at the INSTINCTS of each of the candidates. Frankly, the only appropriate leadership out there worthy of conservative support comes from Cain or Bachmann or Palin, or Santorum. But the establishment party as well as a Scared-To-Death Obama campaign would have them marginalized so he doesn’t have to face any of them.

You want the essence of Cain? Then watch this video from early in the year. You might get it.

Use of the video outside of linking to Youtube is allowed only with attribution.

Jason Gillman on November 14, 2011 at 9:18 PM

http://michigantaxes.com/wordpress/2011/11/video-response-to-michelle-malkin/

Great link. Thanks.

Elisa on November 14, 2011 at 9:26 PM

I know many good people who poured enormous time and energy into Palin’s cause. I felt their efforts and commitment were cheapened, not only by her decision but the manner in which she made it. It is obviously impossible to know her personal reasons. And one really can’t fault a person for choosing not to take on such a brutal challenge. I do understand this. At the same time, she carried on for months encouraging these sacrifices, intimating great notions of public service and invoking a fierce summons and call to arms for this moment of peril to our country. It is not correct, I think, to suggest she was not referring to her own potential candidacy. Then she made an abrupt, odd and rather mealy statement about how she could be “more effective” making speeches here and there. And that was that.

Reagan ran, twice. He lost once. He put himself out there, subjected himself to the people and the process. That’s how it works. The media and the Left are not invincible. Far from it. But they cannot be defeated until they are fought. I’d say it was sad, but how can one be sad for a candidacy that, as it has turned out, didn’t actually have the candidate with the will to fight we thought she had?

rrpjr on November 14, 2011 at 8:52 PM

I am glad I’m not the only one who “gets it” regarding the Palin no-go decision. She made her first major political error and it was unforced. That makes her an uphill candidate if she would choose to try at this point.

Cain can repair this and it is unclear how much damage has been done. The world is more than the blogosphere we inhabit. If any of you are not in a tea party, I encourage you to join one so you will not end up with a narrow distorted view.

So now I have two compatriots. :) And there’s always Lourdes who will be fine as long as he/she doesn’t get smitten with mittens.

OT: Hewitt went nuts over Hensarling and Toomey coming out with a 300 billion tax increase in order to get a 1.2 trillion cut over ten years.

There really is something in the water in DC.

platypus on November 14, 2011 at 9:26 PM

Gee, suddenly nobody likes Hagen daz Black Walnut anymore!
You people are so picky!

chumpThreads on November 14, 2011 at 9:27 PM

OT: Hewitt went nuts over Hensarling and Toomey coming out with a 300 billion tax increase in order to get a 1.2 trillion cut over ten years.

There really is something in the water in DC.

platypus on November 14, 2011 at 9:26 PM

ACK!

gophergirl on November 14, 2011 at 9:27 PM

cane_loader on November 14, 2011 at 9:06 PM

morals and convictions my ass, you got so wrapped up in idol worship your world crumpled down. being disappointed is one thing, you cried because she’s not running?? and in your post you implied America was doomed and only she can save it. and this thread is full of ‘nistas just praying sarah will change her mind. you guys are certifiable.

chasdal on November 14, 2011 at 9:10 PM

And screw you, too. You suck. All you do is stir up strife. Your attempts to pick a target, freeze it, polarize it – you MF Alinskyite, you are smearing me and you’re full of it and nothing you said about me is true, but it’s all about accusations, isn’t it.

I hope at some point a good moderator comes in here and strips out all the reprehensible people like you disrupt and honest political discussion, as we werehaving here on this thread until you came with your evil mouth to stir up excrement.

I’m out of this thread and you are wrecking this blog.

Screw you. You suck.

cane_loader on November 14, 2011 at 9:29 PM

If you’re passionate about a candidate, every criticism stings. I just pray that we can all find passion in our cause and fight for the eventual nominee the same as we have for each of these great conservatives.

mike_NC9 on November 14, 2011 at 9:29 PM

In an interview with the Journal Sentinel last month, Cain said that he was “right in the corner of Gov. Scott Walker 100%” in Walker’s battle with public employee unions.

Yeah, but unfortunately that 100% can’t be averaged with Walker’s 44% approval rating.

Dr. ZhivBlago on November 14, 2011 at 9:30 PM

I know this is gonna make me a bad Perry-krishna…but I think he’ll drop out after Iowa.

annoyinglittletwerp on November 14, 2011 at 7:11 PM

I don’t think so alt, but we’ll see. He may end up, like someone said here, being the guy that screwed up up the longest time ago, and his screw-ups may not look as bad with a little more perspective. In Iowa I think he’ll be in the top 3, of course not in NH but then I predict he’ll win SC. Like I said, we’ll see. I’m basing this on how I’ve seen him win elections in the past, not because I’m warm-fuzzy in love with the guy. He is one of the best retail politicians around.

kg598301 on November 14, 2011 at 9:32 PM

You suck.

cane_loader on November 14, 2011 at 9:22 PM

Heh, really working hard to elevate the discourse, aren’t you, cane_loader?

Inkblots on November 14, 2011 at 9:33 PM

mike_NC9 on November 14, 2011 at 9:29 PM

I agree..:)

Dire Straits on November 14, 2011 at 9:34 PM

I don’t think so alt, but we’ll see. He may end up, like someone said here, being the guy that screwed up up the longest time ago, and his screw-ups may not look as bad with a little more perspective. In Iowa I think he’ll be in the top 3, of course not in NH but then I predict he’ll win SC. Like I said, we’ll see. I’m basing this on how I’ve seen him win elections in the past, not because I’m warm-fuzzy in love with the guy. He is one of the best retail politicians around.

kg598301 on November 14, 2011 at 9:32 PM

The debate performance helped him immensely. He needs to follow it up with another great showing on the 22nd.

It’s a long uphill climb but it’s doable.

gophergirl on November 14, 2011 at 9:34 PM

It’s a long uphill climb but it’s doable.

gophergirl on November 14, 2011 at 9:34 PM

I agree..:)

Dire Straits on November 14, 2011 at 9:36 PM

I’m sorry Herb imploded for the tenth time, cane_loader. :-(

Punchenko on November 14, 2011 at 9:37 PM

The man has core principles. And yet a couple of drawn out mistakes (or call them weaknesses) to reporters looking for dirt, and so many fall to the “ain’t ready for prime time” gutter.

Jason Gillman on November 14, 2011 at 9:18 PM

I’m down with candidates who have principles. Except that little ol’ me seems to have thought mine through better than Cain, and I’ve defended Cain over and over these past few weeks here on HA.

When you have principles, you can answer on autopilot because it comes from the heart.

Collective bargaining? What principle drove that answer?

I realize that Obama is an empty suit without his stupid teleprompter, but our nominee needs to be exceptional. The times are exceptional. Cain hasn’t done the requisite homework before coming out for his test, despite ample opportunity to do so in the past few months.

Unbelievably, I’m about ready to get very much behind Newt. Wouldn’t have expected that, but he’s been exceptional. And he seems to be listening to us. Time will tell.

beatcanvas on November 14, 2011 at 9:37 PM

I agree..:)

Dire Straits on November 14, 2011 at 9:36 PM

I read that one of his advisors said the difference in debates was that this one he decided to just be more himself and not try to say/do the perfect thing.

Well it definitely worked.

gophergirl on November 14, 2011 at 9:38 PM

People have a tendency of burying candidates and them arising like a phoenix. From what I have read, Perry has the capacity to rehabilitate himself.

Voter from WA State on November 14, 2011 at 9:40 PM

:) It would be one heck of a comeback story that’s for sure.

gophergirl on November 14, 2011 at 9:43 PM

I allowed some hope to stir for Herman Cain, but ended up wondering what in the world the guy is doing running for president. His heart is in the right place, yet he can’t seem to fire on all cylinders.

Discounting the harassment charges altogether, something is wrong. God forbid there is anything physically wrong the man — there are a lot of other possibilities. Was he affirmatively actioned beyond his abilities? That’s possible, but it seems unfair, given his education. Then, there is the idiot savantism that afflicts so many present-day CEOs.

Can’t know with certainty what it is, but it sure isn’t presidential. I don’t see any learning curve; personality is the hard ceiling here.

Feedie on November 14, 2011 at 9:43 PM

Collective bargaining? What principle drove that answer?

Actually he is correct.

They just cannot strike.

You would assume the freedom to associate I pray. If you and another make a pact to seek similar reward for the efforts you make, why should that be stopped? It still makes no guarantee that those rewards sought will be realized.

It WAS from the heart.

Jason Gillman on November 14, 2011 at 9:45 PM

He’s hurting himself not being prepared.

kim roy on November 14, 2011 at 7:07 PM

It’s hard to be on top of your game when you’ve been blindsided a few times. I’m not making excuses for him, I’m not a Cain supporter but I’m an empathic human being. I am truly bothered when others are thrown into the media meatgrinder and expected to keep it all together. It doesn’t happen to Democrats. They are coddled while ours are ripped to shreds for the country’s amusement.

Fallon on November 14, 2011 at 7:17 PM

I agree it’s hard and so why I was posting and stating that it’s unfair to judge him based on the accusations. I agree with Cindy that it was journalistic malpractice, but what else is new from them?

I also agree that it doesn’t happen to democrats and that they circle the wagons. We haven’t learned that yet.

The however comes when he’s given red meat to work with and has nothing. Like I criticize Perry for not being ready for debates, Cain has to be able to hit the easy ones out of the park. For whatever reason, much like Perry refusing to learn how to debate, they aren’t doing it.

It’s a shame because he’s better than this and unless he’s been hiding under a rock for the last number of years, the meatgrinder was going to happen.

kim roy on November 14, 2011 at 9:45 PM

My recommended response to that question:

Before I answer, why don’t you tell me what Obama’s “position” was. That’s the problem, isn’t it? No one, not the combatants, our allies, the military, knew what the he11 our position was. They needed leadership and they got someone at the back of the parade. The fact that it all ended well, for now, is a testament to NATO air power more than to American leadership. Obama’s position was totally irrelevant.

Nonetheless, I agree with the majority view here, he’s done.

FalseProfit on November 14, 2011 at 9:46 PM

Speaking of Palin, she has a golden opportunity to play kingmaker in December.

Lawdawg86 on November 14, 2011 at 9:24 PM

-
Palin will back Gingrich soon… or… keep her powder dry until the convention. One or the other.
-

RalphyBoy on November 14, 2011 at 9:46 PM

Well it definitely worked.

gophergirl on November 14, 2011 at 9:38 PM

Good deal..:)

Dire Straits on November 14, 2011 at 9:51 PM

I read that one of his advisors said the difference in debates was that this one he decided to just be more himself and not try to say/do the perfect thing.

Well it definitely worked.

gophergirl on November 14, 2011 at 9:38 PM

mind boggling. I want to know a candidate, i want honest competent answers. Its much easier to tell the truth, you never have to wonder what all your lies are.

astonerii on November 14, 2011 at 9:54 PM

INTERVIEWER: “You don’t think they were assessed”

CAIN: “I don’t know that they were or were not assessed. I did not see reports of that assessment.”

MAYBE YOU SHOULD FIND OUT YOU F*CKING MORON

Dave Rywall on November 14, 2011 at 9:58 PM

Speaking of Palin, she has a golden opportunity to play kingmaker in December.

Lawdawg86 on November 14, 2011 at 9:24 PM

Palin will back Gingrich soon… or… keep her powder dry until the convention. One or the other.

RalphyBoy on November 14, 2011 at 9:46 PM

Lawdawg86 is wrong. Palin couldn’t crown anybody dogcatcher after what she did. She owns the quitter meme (look at her endorsement in Kentucky) and she is toxic.

And RalphyBoy, if she endorses Newt he would be smart to tell people that he did not solicit her endorsement. Otherwise, he loses.

platypus on November 14, 2011 at 9:58 PM

Dang, that video is painful to watch. So painful I actually paused it twice, shaking my head in disbelief, not wanting to watch more.

Cain isn’t an idiot, but that which was obvious to many people 6 months ago should be obvious to everyone now: he simply isn’t ready.

The flavor of the month is Toast.

Splashman on November 14, 2011 at 10:06 PM

“Lawdawg86 is wrong. Palin couldn’t crown anybody dogcatcher after what she did. She owns the quitter meme (look at her endorsement in Kentucky) and she is toxic.

platypus on November 14, 2011 at 9:58 PM”

You have the brains God gave a rock! The woman has done a great deal for the movement, what exactly has your lame ass done? Put her in any venue with any of these candidates and see who draws more people, it won’t even be close!

She puts herself out there and losers like you come with the quitter meme? If she would have went bankrupt defending herself against a constant litany of false charges you would have said what? People like yourself are scumbags, almost as bad as the people committing those acts against her.

I am also happy she didn’t run, it seems like most of the people occupying this space aren’t worth it!

Africanus on November 14, 2011 at 10:13 PM

You would assume the freedom to associate I pray. If you and another make a pact to seek similar reward for the efforts you make, why should that be stopped? It still makes no guarantee that those rewards sought will be realized.

Jason Gillman on November 14, 2011 at 9:45 PM

Note the difference…

In an interview with the Journal Sentinel last month, Cain said that he was “right in the corner of Gov. Scott Walker 100%” in Walker’s battle with public employee unions.

Walker limited collective bargaining in Wisconsin, and rather famously mocked Obama for demanding something of Wisconsin that the federal government doesn’t grant.

Cain doesn’t give a principled answer at all. He’s either 100% behind the governor, or he’s not. Can’t have it both ways. That’s a Romney tactic.

Collective bargaining, in principle, is not about freedom of association. It’s about coercion. It’s threat.

Principle: You have the right to choose the direction of your own life so long as you’re not stepping on the liberties of others.

Associating with whomever you choose for the express purpose of bullying someone else is not about freedom. You step on the liberties of others when you force them to your will.

Because employers can’t fire employees for belonging to as union, no matter how divisive they become, collective bargaining robs the business owner of their freedom of association – the right to hire and retain employees that reflect the culture of the business.

beatcanvas on November 14, 2011 at 10:15 PM

Cain’s had a very generous level of support of good wishes and best hopes for his success and he’s responded a bit poorly to that AND he’s been found to be not up to the expectations. I think most of us still consider him a very personable guy, an interesting person, and more. We just don’t consider him President.

Lourdes on November 14, 2011 at 9:14 PMgree with

+1 Very well stated. He’s overstayed his time at the top.

HellCat on November 14, 2011 at 10:17 PM

Before I answer, why don’t you tell me what Obama’s “position” was. That’s the problem, isn’t it? No one, not the combatants, our allies, the military, knew what the he11 our position was. They needed leadership and they got someone at the back of the parade. The fact that it all ended well, for now, is a testament to NATO air power more than to American leadership. Obama’s position was totally irrelevant.

…’NATO air power’ was pretty much the USAF air power…my spouse is in the Air Force and they were involved there from day one, they were deployed to bases in that area (Sicily and other places in the Mediterranean that I am not supposed to talk about) ever since the bombing began…needless to tell you that those are not usual rotational deployment places for USAF, but rather ‘unusual’ locations….as much as we might dislike O (and I suppose most if not all on this thread do), Lybia can be counted as one of his foreign policy ‘successes’, like it or not…and he stated clearly that he won’t get involved in post-conflict reconstruction and stuff, which is good coz we don’t have that kind of money for that…so his policy was pretty simple: we’ll help you bomb Gaddafi out of power, but no post-conflict involvement and funding. It’s probably what NYT or Times magazine would call ‘smart power’.

jimver on November 14, 2011 at 10:18 PM

Cain doesn’t give a principled answer at all. He’s either 100% behind the governor, or he’s not. Can’t have it both ways. That’s a Romney tactic.

Collective bargaining, in principle, is not about freedom of association. It’s about coercion. It’s threat.

Actually.. “The bill authorizes state officials to fire any state employee who joins a strike, walk-out, sit-in, or coordinated effort to call in sick.”

Some folks call it a ban on collective bargaining, but I ask, were the affected unions disbanded? (I am asking because I do not know) If they were not, then collective bargaining was NOT prohibited.

Jason Gillman on November 14, 2011 at 10:26 PM

She owns the quitter meme (look at her endorsement in Kentucky) and she is toxic.

platypus on November 14, 2011 at 9:58 PM

You talking about Rand Paul? He was quite pleased to get Palin’s endorsement and it worked out real well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MXytE_EbqjE

Platypus, you should get a job writing liberal textbooks because you are great at revisionist history.

bw222 on November 14, 2011 at 10:28 PM

Well, sorry everyone about going Tourette’s on the thread :-P

I think I’ll do like Herman should and take a break! Picked up the old acoustic and picking out “Mercedes Benz” by Janis…

Good night to all, and enjoy the jousts!

:)

cane_loader on November 14, 2011 at 10:30 PM

IOWA: Idiots Out Wandering Around.
*I was born in Sac city-which is west-central Iowa*

annoyinglittletwerp on November 14, 2011 at 5:51 PM

YOu know twerp, I have never called you a name, but you have gone out of your way to be disrepectful of anyone who doesnt support any one of your candidates. You may think you are cute, or all that, but you are not any better than anyone else here, and your opinion hold little value. And after a remark like that, it also shows your character.I thought you were petty when you defriended me for disagreeing with you, but now I see you as even less….

lovingmyUSA on November 14, 2011 at 10:31 PM

I thought we already knew the man was clueless.

jhffmn on November 14, 2011 at 10:34 PM

Platypus, you should get a job writing liberal textbooks because you are great at revisionist history.

bw222 on November 14, 2011 at 10:28 PM

He’s has Palin issues….

Rent free.

idesign on November 14, 2011 at 10:36 PM

He has…

idesign on November 14, 2011 at 10:38 PM

Lawdawg86 is wrong. Palin couldn’t crown anybody dogcatcher after what she did. She owns the quitter meme (look at her endorsement in Kentucky) and she is toxic.

And RalphyBoy, if she endorses Newt he would be smart to tell people that he did not solicit her endorsement. Otherwise, he loses.

platypus on November 14, 2011 at 9:58 PM

Stop your Palin rage. I know she, like Nixon in 1962, isn’t around for you to kick anymore. However, you probably hated her before she dropped out, and you’re only upset with her now because her absence brings into broad relief the fact that we are left with a bunch of zombies from which we must pick a sacrificial lamb to be sacrificed at the Altar of His Oneness.

Well, except perhaps Newt. He appears to be able to hold his own. But the GOP won’t nominate Newt because we’re the Stupid Party. We’re going to nominate a guy who stripped companies clean before sending their assets to China. That’ll go over great.

If Newt believed what you assert behind a keyboard, he wouldn’t be going on twitter claiming what a great movie The Undefeated was and how Palin led the charge against Crony Capitalism.

Newt has private polling that says your assertions are the screams of a man in clown shoes.

If Palin was as toxic as you say she was, the Republican Party of Florida wouldn’t have invited her down for a fundraiser that raised over 900 grand, as much as the D’s raised in their entire first quarter.

I didn’t like the way Palin got out either. That doesn’t mean that any of these candidates have a tenth of her talent. At some point, you’ll come to the conclusion that the GOP is screwed big time.

When you wake up to the fact that people like Karl Rove and Ed Gillespie are much more interested in getting Jeb Bush elected in 2016 than in supporting Mitt Romney, that will be when you begin to understand who runs the GOP.

victor82 on November 14, 2011 at 10:39 PM

Message to Cain supporters – cookies and a stiff drink work really good at times like this.

Signed -

A Perry supporter that’s been there.

gophergirl on November 14, 2011 at 6:06 PM

Very classy, thank you…

lovingmyUSA on November 14, 2011 at 10:40 PM

Is twerp still out there climbing up Romney’s butt?

Jeebus. Some things never change.

victor82 on November 14, 2011 at 10:40 PM

YOu know twerp, I have never called you a name, but you have gone out of your way to be disrepectful of anyone who doesnt support any one of your candidates. You may think you are cute, or all that, but you are not any better than anyone else here, and your opinion hold little value. And after a remark like that, it also shows your character.I thought you were petty when you defriended me for disagreeing with you, but now I see you as even less….

lovingmyUSA on November 14, 2011 at 10:31 PM

I stay out of these personal drama’s- but my sweet grandma was from Iowa and this is an insult.
I will admit, I’m not wild about the Yankees in Fl but I try to catch myself judging everyone from where they came from. It is easy to do but not right.

bazil9 on November 14, 2011 at 10:41 PM

Darn it, you guys made me mad! <:-O

got rig set up gonna record a song.

just don’t call me “chicken!”

Key of A

cane_loader on November 14, 2011 at 10:43 PM

LOL…

Awww… but humility is my strongest suit. Trust me, it is. :)

I just love being right.

TheRightMan on November 14, 2011 at 7:19 PM

I made you laugh but come on man-you ain’t humble. You don’t win anything acting like a jackass.

bazil9 on November 14, 2011 at 10:56 PM

cane_loader on November 14, 2011 at 10:43 PM

That was a lot of heat you took for a hypothetical question, don’t let it get to you.

Cindy Munford on November 14, 2011 at 11:32 PM

You don’t win anything acting like a jackass.

bazil9 on November 14, 2011 at 10:56 PM

Oh yeah? Take a look at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

darwin-t on November 14, 2011 at 11:58 PM

Well, the self destruction of Cain continues. With Perry out and Gingrich soon to be gone, it appears, as most have predicted for months, that Romney will be the nominee, beat Obama in the general, and lead a majority in both the house and senate.

csdeven on November 15, 2011 at 12:05 AM

darwin-t on November 14, 2011 at 11:58 PM

Touche’ lol

bazil9 on November 15, 2011 at 12:11 AM

promachus on November 14, 2011 at 7:41 PM

MY ‘dumb’ governor is on his THIRD term as governor of a state that has one of the most business friendly ‘climates’ in the US.
YOUR ‘dumb governor’ cut bait before the poor thing even finished even ONE term.
I guess doing a reality show on TLC was a better gig.
///

annoyinglittletwerp on November 15, 2011 at 12:12 AM

lovingmyUSA on November 14, 2011 at 10:31 PM

Dipsh*t-being that I’m a NATIVE IOWAN I was also poking fun at myself!
I was born in Sac city and lived in Des Moines until I was 2 1/2. My father was born and raised in Davenport and graduated from what is now St. Ambrose University. My great uncle owned Interstate Bookstores. My parents met because my mother was working @ the main store. They were married at that Temple-Beth Emmanuel?-in Davenport.

I AM an Iowan. Get off your ‘effing high horse!!!

annoyinglittletwerp on November 15, 2011 at 12:18 AM

His main point, about properly assessing the opposition in Libya, was a good one. The trouble is, the broad strokes of a foreign policy vision, which would help him orient himself sleep or no sleep, may not be there.

AshleyTKing on November 15, 2011 at 1:17 AM

As long as the Libyans in Italy have the right of return…

profitsbeard on November 15, 2011 at 1:28 AM

Cain also appeared to be unclear on the issue of collective bargaining as it involves federal employees. Asked if he thought federal employees should have the ability to bargain collectively, Cain said: “They already have it, don’t they?”

Told they didn’t, he said, “They have unions.”

“These go to ELEVEN.”

HondaV65 on November 14, 2011 at 9:24 PM

haha Classic Movie – This is Spinal Tap

g2825m on November 15, 2011 at 1:46 AM

President. Is. Not. An. Entry. Level. Position.

I don’t actually think this is so bad, he’s obviously exhausted. But.

I happen to think the US nomination/election process is as good as it gets for finding a pres. Cain is having problems hacking the NOMINATION process. (no shame in that, anyone would, it’s TOUGH). The significance of the harassment allegations is how he handles it (badly), you cannot have a committee decide everything when you’re running the US. What about the 4:AM call? And you need to react straight away?

By the way Newt is unelectable. It’s Mitt for you guys now.

Beginning to think Obama is a shoo in …

Hope on November 15, 2011 at 1:55 AM

Unless Palin reconsiders :)

promachus on November 14, 2011 at 5:46 PM

I thought a Palin run would be a train wreck but after watching Cain and Perry…..I really know what a train wreck looks like.

terryannonline on November 14, 2011 at 5:49 PM

I figured Palin would either run in 2012 or not at all. But by the time the election rolls around, there may be a lot of people thinking, “You know, Palin would have been a better choice.”

We just might see President-Elect Palin in 2016. I hope not, since that would probably mean a second Obama term, which is near-inconceivable. But whatever faults she has, she looks pretty good compared to most others.

There Goes The Neighborhood on November 15, 2011 at 2:21 AM

Yes, Herman Cain has been in over his head since day one. But I believe he’s also a good man and helped re-shape our field and ideas.

Without his 9-9-9 plan I don’t think we’d be talking about a flat tax or completely doing away with our current system… we’d be talking about the Bush tax cuts and nibbling around the edges. Cain played a good role in the campaign and I wish him well outside of government.

El_Terrible on November 15, 2011 at 3:28 AM

Goofier than Barry’s dad!

BHO Jonestown on November 15, 2011 at 6:25 AM

I read that one of his advisors said the difference in debates was that this one he decided to just be more himself and not try to say/do the perfect thing.

Well it definitely worked.

gophergirl on November 14, 2011 at 9:38 PM

I’ve said that all along, he wasn’t being himself because he got frontrunner status immediately (not good, only one way to go from there- down!), came out of the the gate swinging (Bernanke comment, evolution, etc…) and someone obviously told him to “tone it down”. He is much better just speaking from the heart.

Perry still has time to come back. Unfortunately for Cain, with his numbers just now beginning to slide, the timing is such that he doesn’t.

kg598301 on November 15, 2011 at 7:48 AM

“This is worse than a crime: it’s a blunder,” -Talleyrand.

Akzed on November 15, 2011 at 9:13 AM

Cain was correct in that ALL federal govt workers have collective bargaining rights over working conditions/schedules and the like. As the JSonline article points out, air traffic controllers have it over pay (their recent contract was immune to Obama’s fed pay freeze) but none of them have it over benefits (which would be a disaster). Allahpundit’s characterization was a little off on this point.

A.C. McCloud on November 15, 2011 at 10:18 AM

Cain’s had a very generous level of support of good wishes and best hopes for his success and he’s responded a bit poorly to that AND he’s been found to be not up to the expectations. I think most of us still consider him a very personable guy, an interesting person, and more. We just don’t consider him President.

Cain is in the middle of a rather long and painful meltdown – and what makes this really painful is how utterly clueless he is about it – just like every thing else from foreign policy to federal policy.

This is just pathetic – and truly sad news for any one who is a minority and Republican

nagee76 on November 15, 2011 at 12:44 PM

Listen dude, this is a race for the Presidency of the United States, not an interview to be a business school teacher. How you would approach the problem is fine. But, we need to see a little deep thinking about the issues of foreign policy. You evidently haven’t done any. This is a problem.

Pablo Snooze on November 15, 2011 at 1:53 PM

You “gotcha” professionals and paranoids…

The Lybia answer was really bad. But his answer on the collective bargaining or brain freeze on “defined benefits” or “defined contributions”, these are minor things.

It’s not about his position vis-a-vis very specific in-the-weeds items, it’s about his principles. His loud pro-free-market and small government and anti-OWS pronouncements should give an indication about what he would do with the challenge of unions.

I for one think that his star is fading because he’s had too many gaffes and sexual accusations. But what I’m saying is, just because he’s had a brain freeze doesn’t mean he isn’t pro free market, or pro strong national defense.

It’s like “yes! yes! we got you! you don’t know! ha!”… it’s just so stupid.

AlexB on November 16, 2011 at 12:05 PM

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