RomneyCare subsidized care for illegal immigrants?

posted at 11:25 am on October 24, 2011 by Ed Morrissey

The Los Angeles Times dropped a political bombshell on Mitt Romney today with its report on a key component of RomneyCare and its use by illegal immigrants to receive taxpayer-subsidized care.  Romney has attacked Rick Perry for providing a “magnet” for illegal immigration with tuition breaks for some students of illegal immigrants in Texas, so this has the potential for substantial backfire in the presidential race:

The Massachusetts healthcare law that then-Gov. Mitt Romney signed in 2006 includes a program known as the Health Safety Net, which allows undocumented immigrants to get needed medical care along with others who lack insurance.

Uninsured, poor immigrants can walk into a health clinic or hospital in the state and get publicly subsidized care at virtually no cost to them, regardless of their immigration status.

The program, widely supported in Massachusetts, drew little attention when Romney signed the trailblazing healthcare law. But now it could prove problematic for the Republican presidential hopeful, who has been attacking Texas Gov. Rick Perry for supporting educational aid for children of undocumented immigrants in Texas.

“We have to turn off the magnet of extraordinary government benefits,” Romney said at the recent Fox NewsGoogle debate in Florida.

This looks worse than it really is, however, mainly because of the reality of American health care in every state.  Anyone who walks into an emergency room gets care whether they pay for it or not.  That was true in Massachusetts before RomneyCare, and it’s true everywhere else.  In fact, this was one of the prime issues that drove health-care reform in Massachusetts — how to reduce the burden on taxpayers from the high cost of unnecessary emergency-room care.

The Health Safety Net program was intended to shift those visits from emergency rooms to clinics where possible.  Clinic visits cost less and don’t tie up scarce resources in emergency rooms.  The only other option would have been for Massachusetts to deny care to the indigent at any level, a step that would have hardly been adopted in deep-blue Massachusetts, and probably not anywhere else, either.

Still, this will almost certainly sting Romney in the political battles of the primary and offer Perry a rebuttal point in the debates.  After all, he made a similar point about the economic benefit of ensuring that students get educations to stay off of welfare rolls and end up as net contributors rather than net recipients to society.  Romney’s argument is more directly tied to the economics of health care than Perry’s is on education, but that’s a nuance that likely won’t survive in the presidential debates.

Update: Some commenters are apparently unable to comprehend the nuance of my post, so I’ll be a little more blunt: any kind of cost reduction effort has to address the people using emergency rooms as clinics.  Since it’s nearly impossible for nurses to do immigration checks, illegals will get health care regardless of whether they get forced into emergency rooms or have an option to go into clinics.  The only other way around that is to deny care without insurance or cash, which is politically untenable even in red states, let alone Massachusetts.  RomneyCare, with its mandate for universal insurance, had to have a structure for clinics to address those who couldn’t afford any in order to reduce those costs, which is why HSN was inevitable, regardless of when it started.

Update II: The HSN existed prior to RomneyCare, however, when it was called the Uncompensated Free Care Pool.  That was established in 1985, but the Chapter 58 bill (RomneyCare) relied heavily on the UFCP for its savings claims.  The UFCP was renamed the Health Safety Net in 2007.  Far from ending the pool, Romney used it to help fund RomneyCare — and for good reasons.

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That explains Romney’s flip flops.

portlandon on October 24, 2011 at 12:28 PM

I wonder if swampy was smart enough to get that? Probably not, his own irony is above his comprehension.

cozmo on October 24, 2011 at 12:33 PM

After all, he made a similar point about the economic benefit of ensuring that students get educations to stay off of welfare rolls and end up as net contributors rather than net recipients to society. Romney’s argument is more directly tied to the economics of health care than Perry’s is on education, but that’s a nuance that likely won’t survive in the presidential debates.

You’re right about the nuance Ed. Tit-for-tat economically, Romney on health care, Perry on education. However, did Romney’s health care legislation put illegals on the path to citizenship the way Perry’s education legislation did? Funny, how that part gets left out of that discussion.

Texas Gal on October 24, 2011 at 12:34 PM

A vote for Romney in the primary is a vote for Obama in the general.

Valiant on October 24, 2011 at 12:34 PM

I knew an Asian girl who lived in MA. Her mother, who lived in and was a citizen of a foreign country came to visit on a tourist visa. The mother also happened to have a serious heart condition. The girl took her mother to Mass General and the finest heart specialists, and wound up having exceeding expensive heart surgery. Since the girl didn’t have a job or insurance – Romneycare paid for it all.

For a woman who wasn’t even a resident of the state, or the country for that matter. The bill for a certainly had to exceed $200,000, for a foreign national on a tourist visa.

True story.

Rebar on October 24, 2011 at 12:35 PM

A vote for Romney in the primary is a vote for Obama in the general.

Valiant on October 24, 2011 at 12:34 PM

But for some strange reason, the polls say just the opposite. Perhaps there is some flaw in your reasoning.

thuja on October 24, 2011 at 12:38 PM

because willard’s dread ” free riders”( apparently the sole cause of expensive and inadequate health care in the country )are only legal ,tax paying residents who refuse to buy products they do not want from the insurance companies. ( because there’s no way anyone actually pays their own way like my parents and grandparents did their entire lives.)

illegals who lie on their employment applications, lie on their W2 forms( i have seen childless illegals want to add 10+ dependents living abroad on their statements- and, worse, i have seen employers who know they are committing fraud allow them to do it), and lie about their incomes on free care forms are entitled to full access to the generosity of the american tax payer – but americans who reject the mandate, even if they pay their bills or want unapproved insurance products, are a drain on the system . they need to be punished and fined for not giving all their money to willards’s big insurance cronies.

the mandate exists because the insurance companies- still private concerns- refused to participate in romenycare if everyone in the state wasn’t forced to buy their bloated, hyper-inflated products. the free rider crap willard was always whining about is BS insurance company speak so they could use the government to tap as much profit as possible out of their now enslaved customers.

a year ago de-evolve patrick removed green card carrying residents- who did everything the right way- from being allowed to use the health connector to get subsidized insurance. they are no longer subject to the mandate. americans too poor to afford romeny’s mandated product but too “rich” according to the insurance companies themselves for subsidies are fined and lose their houses. no exemptions for them.

why does willard hate middle class working americans who are being financially raped by his romenycare?

mittens on October 24, 2011 at 12:40 PM

BS report. Every state has the same law on the books. Anybody that enters an ER gets care, no matter their immigration status, and writing a healthcare law, and ignoring this is basically nonsense.

The liberals and Rick Perry should try again.

Chudi on October 24, 2011 at 12:41 PM

But for some strange reason, the polls say just the opposite. Perhaps there is some flaw in your reasoning.

thuja on October 24, 2011 at 12:38 PM

The only republican beating Obama in the current polls, is generic republican, not Mitt Romney.

Dr Evil on October 24, 2011 at 12:48 PM

However, did Romney’s health care legislation put illegals on the path to citizenship the way Perry’s education legislation did? Funny, how that part gets left out of that discussion.

Texas Gal on October 24, 2011 at 12:34 PM

The have to seek legal status, not any “path to citizenship”. At least get it right.

cartooner on October 24, 2011 at 12:52 PM

Election 2012: Generic Presidential Ballot
Generic Republican 47%, Obama 43%

Generic republican is with in 4% thats within the margin of error for a tie.

The president remains in a virtual tie with former Massachusetts Governor Mitt Romney. Georgia businessman Herman Cain, who has surged in the GOP race in recent weeks, is now the only Republican who has any kind of lead over the president, 43% to 41%.

Dr Evil on October 24, 2011 at 12:53 PM

HI Ed,

Another thing. Romney vetoed this particular section of the health bill, and the veto was over-ridden by the legislature. I live in Boston, so I should know. There are many parts of that law that Romney vetoed, and this has always been Romney’s argument. He always argued that he tried his best on that bill to limit the socialist tendencies of the liberal MA legislature.

I wish Perry will attack him on this…I really really hope Perry attacks him. Romney will wipe the floor again with him.

Like i always say, I know Hotair is in the tank for perry, but please guys try to be objective when reporting. I know if this was an attack on Perry, you guys would spend 5 mins doing research online to find out if it is true before writing the story.

http://www.malegislature.gov/Laws/SessionLaws/Acts/2006/Chapter58

Governor disapproved the following section, see H4857
The Legislature overrode the Governor’s veto
SECTION 27. Section 16D of said chapter 118E, as so appearing, is hereby amended by adding the following subsection:?

(7) Notwithstanding subsection (3), a person who is not a citizen of the United States but who is either a qualified alien within the meaning of section 431 of the Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act of 1996 or is otherwise permanently residing in the United States under color of law shall be eligible to receive benefits under MassHealth Essential if such individual meets the categorical and financial eligibility requirements under MassHealth; provided further that such individual is either age 65 or older, or between age 19 and 64, inclusive, and disabled. Such individual shall not be subject to sponsor income deeming or related restrictions.

SECTION 28. The seventh paragraph of section 23 of said chapter 118E, as so appearing, is hereby amended by striking out clause (2) and inserting in place thereof the following clause:?

(2) persons for whom hospitals and community health centers claim reimbursement payments from the Health Safety Net Fund, established by section 57 of chapter 118E.

Chudi on October 24, 2011 at 12:54 PM

The liberals and Rick Perry should try again.

Chudi on October 24, 2011 at 12:41 PM

You live in a state of confusion, from reading your posts, it must be a scary place.

cartooner on October 24, 2011 at 12:54 PM

MA had simply a large pool of money which they doled out to hospitals with emergency rooms to cover all the people who visit but had no insurance. The main pillar of the Romney care reform was converting that fund into insurance coverage instead so those people would visit medical clinics not take an ambulance to the Trauma Center. The idea this was ever really a huge expansion of free benefits isn’t all that true. The free stuff already pre-existed

Resolute on October 24, 2011 at 12:55 PM

Chudi on October 24, 2011 at 12:54 PM

Finally crawled out from under your racist rock?

cozmo on October 24, 2011 at 12:56 PM

I’m absolutely stunned that Romney is getting away with even mentioning illegal immigration. MassHousing (public housing) is absolutely over-run with illegal immigrants. There are entire families living in “elderly” facilities with the grandchildren being given benefits as caregivers. The entire family collects benefits including housing, food stamps, monies and Romneycare. The entire system has been set up to not allow anyone ask for immigration status and there has been a flood of illegal immigration to the state. Why are we not vetting Romney any better than Obama??? This is insane………

sherryande on October 24, 2011 at 1:00 PM

Ann Barnhardt doesn’t seem to like Mitt, and gives reasons:

http://goo.gl/dgFiE

Chessplayer on October 24, 2011 at 11:50 AM

Thanks for that. Ann is wonderful.

rrpjr on October 24, 2011 at 1:02 PM

sherryande on October 24, 2011 at 1:00 PM

Doesn’t Obama’s illegal Auntie live in Massachusetts? In Public housing? How many years has she been living in Massachusetts.

I doubt seriously she jumped a border fence….more likely she overstayed her Visa, like 5 to 6 million more Visa abusers living in our country illegally. No fence is going to stop them.

Dr Evil on October 24, 2011 at 1:10 PM

sherryande on October 24, 2011 at 1:00 PM

And many of you who are opposed to Romney act like everything bad that ever happened in the State of MA is Romney’s fault. The guy was only in office for four years and turned around its deficit, relaxed gun laws, created a rainy day fund of 2BN, and remember he is living in one of the most bluest States in the nation. You think that maybe many of MA’s problems were already there and or Gov Patrick also reversed many of Romney’s laws.

Romney is a great man and will make a great POTUS!

g2825m on October 24, 2011 at 1:13 PM

I doubt seriously she jumped a border fence….more likely she overstayed her Visa, like 5 to 6 million more Visa abusers living in our country illegally. No fence is going to stop them.

Dr Evil on October 24, 2011 at 1:10 PM

P-shaw, everybody knows all illegal aliens are coming across the Rio Grande due to the personal invite of Texas’ racist moron governor. Except the space aliens who ditch their flying saucers around Marfa.

cozmo on October 24, 2011 at 1:14 PM

Romney is a great man and will make a great POTUS!

g2825m on October 24, 2011 at 1:13 PM

Is that you Herman Cain? GRIN.

Dr Evil on October 24, 2011 at 1:16 PM

Dr Evil on October 24, 2011 at 1:16 PM

That was funny! :o)

g2825m on October 24, 2011 at 1:19 PM

Mitt Romney Governor of Massachusetts January 2, 2003 – January 4, 2007

The Globe cited anonymous federal law enforcement sources who said immigration authorities discovered that Obama had been living and working in Massachusetts in violation of a 1992 deportation order. “Uncle Omar,” as the president knows him, first came to the U.S. in 1963 and enrolled in school in Cambridge, Mass., the Globe wrote. Omar is still living in Massachusetts so Governor Romney did nothing about deporting him

Uncle Omar, was arrested this year on a DUI – those Obama’s and their beer drinking habits.

It was unclear why her request was rejected in 2004. A spokeswoman for U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, Kelly Nantel, said the government does not comment on an individual’s citizenship status or immigration case. Yep this is happened on Mitt’s watch that illegal immigration Hawk/

Few details from case
Onyango’s refusal to leave the country would represent an administrative, noncriminal violation of immigration law, meaning such cases are handled outside the criminal court system. Estimates vary, but many experts believe there are more than 10 million such immigrants in the U.S.

Michelle Bachmann I will build two fences with a space between them on the Mexican border- yeah and Auntie Zeituni, and Uncle Omar, might travel down to watch the construction for sh1ts and giggles.

Dr Evil on October 24, 2011 at 1:28 PM

UGHH! Romney is not sufficiently strong on illegal immigration. Better vote for Perry now!!!

Oh wait…

athenanyc on October 24, 2011 at 1:29 PM

Ed linked to MassCare which is an activist website promoting the dream of Single Payer Health Plans. To that extent they are useful source for historical info:

Health Safety Net
Under Chapter 58, the Health Safety Net was created as a successor to the Free Care Pool. It was implemented on October 1, 2007. Like the Free Care Pool, the Health Safety Net covers medically needed services to those who are not eligible for health insurance and cannot afford to purchase it under the individual mandate. The Health Safety Net has provided care to many who once relied on the Free Care Pool. However, differences between the plans mean that some consumers of subsidized health care are no longer covered under the new plan, or must contribute more fees to their healthcare, which can make needed services less affordable. The Uncompensated Care Pool’s safety net which aided so many has been put in danger by this new law.

Differences Between the Plans – Consequences of Chapter 58:

Subsidies for low-income residents in Massachusetts are less generous under Chapter 58 than they were for uncompensated care. Prior to the passage of the bill, individuals up to 200% of the poverty line received free care through the Free Care Pool. Under Commonwealth Care, however, only individuals up to 150% of poverty receive care with no premiums.

The free care pool had no cost-sharing (co-payments and deductibles), while Commonwealth Care does. These fees make care less affordable for some.

Soooooh, which was a better steward of taxpayer dollars? The 1985 law or the successor 2007 law? Did anything change as far as illegals being able to obtain coverage?

Buy Danish on October 24, 2011 at 1:31 PM

The idea this was ever really a huge expansion of free benefits isn’t all that true. The free stuff already pre-existed
Resolute on October 24, 2011 at 12:55 PM

Exactly.

Dr Evil on October 24, 2011 at 1:28 PM

Your argument is ludicrous:

Mitt Romney Governor of Massachusetts January 2, 2003 – January 4, 2007

The Globe cited anonymous federal law enforcement sources who said immigration authorities discovered that Obama had been living and working in Massachusetts in violation of a 1992 deportation order. “Uncle Omar,” as the president knows him, first came to the U.S. in 1963 and enrolled in school in Cambridge, Mass., the Globe wrote. Omar is still living in Massachusetts so Governor Romney did nothing about deporting him

But he must have known about this particular case (and maybe intervened on her behalf?)! You yourself go on to say:

Estimates vary, but many experts believe there are more than 10 million such immigrants in the U.S.

Easy peasy!/

Buy Danish on October 24, 2011 at 1:44 PM

cozmo on October 24, 2011 at 1:14 PM

The space aliens are coming over to join the ‘Occupy Lubbock’ geniuses…all 10 of them.

annoyinglittletwerp on October 24, 2011 at 1:46 PM

Dr Evil and g2825m obviously are not interested in a valid debate or a candidate serious about the illegal immigration problem in our country.

I doubt seriously she jumped a border fence….more likely she overstayed her Visa, like 5 to 6 million more Visa abusers living in our country illegally. No fence is going to stop them.

I didn’t mention Obama’s auntie, uncle or a fence. However, if you would like to discuss overstaying Visa’s – we could start with the illegal immigrants that did just that and then flew the planes into the towers.

sherryande on October 24, 2011 at 1:49 PM

Chudi on October 24, 2011 at 12:54 PM

go back under your racist rock. Nobody cares about Romney. Seriously.

Daemonocracy on October 24, 2011 at 1:50 PM

Estimates vary, but many experts believe there are more than 10 million such immigrants in the U.S.

Easy peasy!/

Buy Danish on October 24, 2011 at 1:44 PM

Romney is the one attacking Perry on his illegal immigration stance, take it up with Romney. People in glasses houses shouldn’t throw stones.

Dr Evil on October 24, 2011 at 1:52 PM

go back under your racist rock. Nobody cares about Romney. Seriously.
Daemonocracy on October 24, 2011 at 1:50 PM

You don’t care for the truth very much do you? Chudi may be a bit of a loon, and he’s wrong about Hot Air being in the tank for Perry, but he posted important info there about specific legislation and vetoes – that makes the poster him/herself irrelevant. Facts are facts.

BTW, how’s that carbon info coming?

Buy Danish on October 24, 2011 at 1:55 PM

This is by far one of the dumbest line of discussion that Repubs can have. First, BOTH Parties have allowed masses of illegal immigrants, maybe for different reasons, maybe, but it had the power of de facto law, the de jure stuff has been heavily ignored by both parties

All Repubs with a chance to win (that excludes some) agree that the first order of business is to control the borders, and until we get that actually done, any other discussion merely takes votes away from Repubs and plays into the “frontlashing” that the media will give any Repub candidate as being a bigot against Hispanics…and in this case it does not matter if it is true or not

Perry should be ashamed of himself for the chickenshit allegations against Romney (who I do not support). We need to focus on social issues that matter, like a culture of decency vs OWS, on the economy and on Obama’s sick and twisted foreign policy that is giving the islamists more and more state power

georgealbert on October 24, 2011 at 1:58 PM

Romney is the one attacking Perry on his illegal immigration stance, take it up with Romney. People in glasses houses shouldn’t throw stones.

Dr Evil on October 24, 2011 at 1:52 PM

That sums up the intelligence of the racist Perry backers. No facts, just throw out charge after charge and hope it sticks. What morons. That’s why he attacked Romney about the lawn care company and refused to let him answer, cus he knew Romney would wipe the floor with him.

Rick Perry does not have the intellectual capacity to be president, and is in fact a moron.

Chudi on October 24, 2011 at 1:58 PM

I have said it before and will do so again. Romney is obummer white. Socialized medicine no matter how you slice it its the same deal. How can be beleive that Romney would do away with obummer care when he did romney care which was the model for obummer care?

ColdWarrior57 on October 24, 2011 at 1:59 PM

Dr Evil and g2825m obviously are not interested in a valid debate or a candidate serious about the illegal immigration problem in our country. sherryande on October 24, 2011 at 1:49 PM

Michelle Bachmann hit both Perry and Romney in the last debate. Mitt Romney was Governor when Obama’s Aunt and Uncle had both been given notice of deportation.

According to Michelle Bachmann as I stated above a double layered fence on the southern border will fix all the illegal alien problems in this country. BUT it won’t, because btw 5 and 6 million people entering our country on Visas will simply overstay their Visa. Visa abusers like Obama’s Aunt and Uncle who live Massachusetts to this day, and lived there while Mitt Romney illegal alien hawk/ was Governor.

Dr Evil on October 24, 2011 at 2:01 PM

Rick Perry does not have the intellectual capacity to be president, and is in fact a moron.

Chudi on October 24, 2011 at 1:58 PM

Heh, this is performance art right?

Dr Evil on October 24, 2011 at 2:03 PM

Coldwarrior57

You can accept the common line about Romneycare being his baby, but it was the legislature of the state of Mass that put it forward and passed it. As Chudi stated above at 12:54, Romney did all that he could to neuter it by line item vetoing specific parts of it. The Mass legislature overrode his vetos.

Plain and simple.

So the canard that most people raise against Romney is fallacious.

He IS a conservative, and his conservative ideas were overridden by the Mass state legislature.

HE didn’t put universal healthcare up for adoption by the state of Mass, the legislature did, and he did his best to cut out the more socialist aspects of the law.

SauerKraut537 on October 24, 2011 at 2:03 PM

Romney is the one attacking Perry on his illegal immigration stance, take it up with Romney. People in glasses houses shouldn’t throw stones.
Dr Evil on October 24, 2011 at 1:52 PM

What the hell are you talking about? Because one (now famous) resident of Mass was an illegal immigrant who was never deported (years prior to and since he was Governor) means that Romney can’t attack Perry on immigration (specifically his assertion that in-state tuition is a magnet for illegals)? Indeed, Texas has far more illegals than Mass does, so using your logic Perry is a failure.

Moreover, I pointed out earlier that unlike federal law which requires every state in the union to cover the healthcare of the indigent, whether they be legal or illegal, in-state tuition for the children of illegals in unique to particular states and can therefore be called a “magnet”.

Buy Danish on October 24, 2011 at 2:03 PM

UGHH! Romney is not sufficiently strong on illegal immigration. Better vote for Perry now!!!

Oh wait…

athenanyc on October 24, 2011 at 1:29 PM

The idea that the republican nominee going into the general election is going to be alienating Hispanic voters is nonsense. I don’t know one of the republican candidates, that don’t take the same squishy soft position on the illegal population in this country. The republicans need to get the Hispanic vote to win in 2012.

There are two distinct issues, one is border and port security, the second is what to do with the illegal population already living inside our country. None of the candidates should get away with confusing two different, intertwined issues.

Dr Evil on October 24, 2011 at 2:09 PM

That’s what I heard O’Reilly say at the end of Friday’s show but he’s got Rubio slotted for tonght’s show.

Dr Evil on October 24, 2011 at 12:19 PM

I’m almost sure I heard BOR say Perry would be on Tuesday’s show, but don’t take my word for it- his schedule changes sometimes.

kg598301 on October 24, 2011 at 2:12 PM

Dr Evil on October 24, 2011 at 1:52 PM

IIRC, in the unlikely, if not impossible, event that then Gov. Romney knew about Obama’s Aunt, only ICE can deport illegals. Governor’s play no direct role. Presumably they could issue a pardon for criminal acts on the part of the illegal which could prevent deportation (as criminals are prioritized) but they can’t pick and choose who they want deported. And Pres Bush her after O was elected – which had zero, zip, nada to do with Romney in any case.

If you have factual info to the contrary, please present it.

Buy Danish on October 24, 2011 at 2:13 PM

Buy Danish on October 24, 2011 at 2:03 PM

In 2004 Obama’s Aunt was facing deportation but she didn’t, and she was living in public (taxpayer subsidized) housing at the time. Romney was Governor from 2003-2007.

Romney attacked Perry for using taxpayer money to subsidize illegal aliens in state tutition. Romney was using tax payer’s money to subsidize Obama’s aunt’s public housing and whatever else she managed to mooch off the state of Massachusetts. You think she was some kind of anomaly there were no other illegal aliens living off the tax payers of Massachusetts?

Dr Evil on October 24, 2011 at 2:16 PM

So since ALL R candidates are “morons,” why are we bothering with this?

leftnomore on October 24, 2011 at 2:16 PM

There are two distinct issues, one is border and port security, the second is what to do with the illegal population already living inside our country. None of the candidates should get away with confusing two different, intertwined issues.
Dr Evil on October 24, 2011 at 2:09 PM

HA!!!! But you can conflate the two “distinct” issues as much as you want. Unreal.

Buy Danish on October 24, 2011 at 2:16 PM

I don’t know why so many people here are convinced that Romney can win. Obama has so much to neutralize and discredit him with, I could probably do it myself if I was debating him.

kg598301 on October 24, 2011 at 2:17 PM

I have said it before and will do so again. Romney is obummer white. Socialized medicine no matter how you slice it its the same deal. How can be beleive that Romney would do away with obummer care when he did romney care which was the model for obummer care?

ColdWarrior57 on October 24, 2011 at 1:59 PM

I wonder who is writing this crap…do you guys even think?

Chudi on October 24, 2011 at 2:18 PM

I’m almost sure I heard BOR say Perry would be on Tuesday’s show, but don’t take my word for it- his schedule changes sometimes.

kg598301 on October 24, 2011 at 2:12 PM

That’s what I heard, I thought he said Monday? I expect he will be making a big deal out of it, he has been mentioning it to Dick Morris on a regular basis when he is on, that Perry needs to come on the Factor.

Dr Evil on October 24, 2011 at 2:19 PM

HA!!!! But you can conflate the two “distinct” issues as much as you want. Unreal.

Buy Danish on October 24, 2011 at 2:16 PM

You might want to cut back on the caffeine.

Dr Evil on October 24, 2011 at 2:21 PM

Dr Evil on October 24, 2011 at 2:16 PM

In 2004 Obama’s Aunt was facing deportation but she didn’t, and she was living in public (taxpayer subsidized) housing at the time. Romney was Governor from 2003-2007.

What’s your point? Did Romney create or sign legislation which made this likely to happen, or which specifically gave her a pass?

Romney attacked Perry for using taxpayer money to subsidize illegal aliens in state tutition. Romney was using tax payer’s money to subsidize Obama’s aunt’s public housing and whatever else she managed to mooch off the state of Massachusetts. You think she was some kind of anomaly there were no other illegal aliens living off the tax payers of Massachusetts?

OMG. This is beyond idiotic. Romney attacked Perry for passing legislation which provided a benefit at taxpayer expense to the children of illegals – which theoretically acts as a magnet to illegals.

One more time, just in case I wasn’t clear: Show me where Romney shepherded legislation which explicitly provided subsidized housing to illegals.

Buy Danish on October 24, 2011 at 2:22 PM

You might want to cut back on the caffeine.
Dr Evil on October 24, 2011 at 2:21 PM

You may want to cut back on the bullsh*t.

Buy Danish on October 24, 2011 at 2:24 PM

Buy Danish on October 24, 2011 at 2:22 PM

One more time, just in case I wasn’t clear: Show me where Romney shepherded legislation which explicitly provided subsidized housing to illegals.

Don’t get me wrong – I am so not agreeing with Dr Evil!

However, in the case above I would ask where Romney showed any leadership to stop subsidized housing to illegals? Anything of substance…….

It’s just not enough unless he’s part of the solution and has the backbone that it will take to make real change.

sherryande on October 24, 2011 at 2:30 PM

You may want to cut back on the bullsh*t.

Buy Danish on October 24, 2011 at 2:24 PM

You Go First

Dr Evil on October 24, 2011 at 2:34 PM

Lets have an immigration show down, courtesy of Ed.

Perry supporters want to bring it up, so lets bring it up.

Do people here know about Romney’s fight for the English language?

http://azbilingualed.org/AABE%20Site/Bilingual%20Education%20in%20the%20News_files/bilingual_ed_

swamp_yankee on October 24, 2011 at 2:34 PM

Romney, leading in a blue state, way ahead of the curve:

http://tiny.cc/bnrs5

swamp_yankee on October 24, 2011 at 2:35 PM

One more time, just in case I wasn’t clear: Show me where Romney shepherded legislation which explicitly provided subsidized housing to illegals. sherryande on October 24, 2011 at 2:30 PM

Mitt Romney was the Governor of Massachusetts or did you miss his all the references to his tenure 2003-2007. He was the head of the executive branch, it’s sort of his job description to enforce Massachusett’s state law.

Dr Evil on October 24, 2011 at 2:40 PM

Long before Arizona, Romney leads the way in blue state.

Feds wont do the job, he pioneered program to give state troopers the authority to enforce immigration laws.

http://tiny.cc/u7y4p

swamp_yankee on October 24, 2011 at 2:42 PM

sherryande on October 24, 2011 at 2:30 PM

Pffft. Has Governor Perry been asked the same question? Relevant FACTS from the Associate Press 2009:

The federal government, which funds the lion’s share of the nation’s public housing, requires only that illegal immigrants share a home with at least one family member who is in the country legally and pay their share of the rent.

While there are no hard numbers on illegal immigrants in public housing, the U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development reports that 29,570 people — 0.4% of all those in federally funded housing — are “ineligible noncitizens.” Some may be on temporary visas, such as highly educated workers or college students, but many are believed to be illegal immigrants.

Frank Bean, director of the University of California, Irvine’s Center for Research on Immigration, Population and Public Policy, estimates at least half of ineligible noncitizens — or about 15,000 — are illegal immigrants with U.S.-born children. Anyone born on U.S. soil is automatically a citizen, making their families eligible for federal housing.

The HUD tally does not offer a full picture of how many illegal immigrants are in public housing.

It doesn’t include housing funded by state and local governments, where eligibility requirements vary. Massachusetts, where Obama’s aunt occupied one of about 50,000 state-funded units, doesn’t ask immigration status under a 1977 federal consent decree in a class-action lawsuit that prohibits the state from denying the benefit to illegal immigrants.

Other illegal immigrants may live in public housing without notifying authorities.

And –

Onyango, the half-sister of Obama’s late father, applied for public housing in 2002 while she was in the country legally seeking asylum from her native Kenya, said Lydia Agro, spokeswoman for the Boston Housing Authority, which has a waiting list of nearly 20,000 people.

Onyango moved into federally funded housing in 2003 and stayed there after 2004, when, The Associated Press learned, an immigration judge denied her asylum application and ordered her to leave the country.

Onyango transferred to an apartment funded only by the state, which cannot ask about immigration status under the court order. In November, her attorney said she was staying with relatives in Cleveland and would fight her deportation order.

Buy Danish on October 24, 2011 at 2:42 PM

Mitt Romney was the Governor of Massachusetts or did you miss his all the references to his tenure 2003-2007. He was the head of the executive branch, it’s sort of his job description to enforce Massachusett’s state law.
Dr Evil on October 24, 2011 at 2:40 PM

You are making a fool of yourself by continuing to pursue this idiotic argument.

Buy Danish on October 24, 2011 at 2:44 PM

Massachusetts, where Obama’s aunt occupied one of about 50,000 state-funded units, doesn’t ask immigration status under a 1977 federal consent decree in a class-action lawsuit that prohibits the state from denying the benefit to illegal immigrants.

Romney was alive in 1977 so he it’s his fault! – Dr. Evil./

Buy Danish on October 24, 2011 at 2:45 PM

Romney was alive in 1977 so he it’s his fault! – Dr. Evil./

Buy Danish on October 24, 2011 at 2:45 PM

In as much as the illegal immigration problem in Texas is Perry’s fault.

cozmo on October 24, 2011 at 2:53 PM

Romney helped stop the push in deep blue Mass to give driving privileges to illegals. Leading again in a deep blue state.

http://tiny.cc/i78ml

swamp_yankee on October 24, 2011 at 2:58 PM

If you hate that idea, isn’t the education in K-12 at least as objectionable as that?
capitalist piglet on October 24, 2011 at 2:59 PM

Well for one thing, K-12 education is mandated by law. College is not.

Buy Danish on October 24, 2011 at 3:10 PM

Well for one thing, K-12 education is mandated by law. College is not.

Buy Danish on October 24, 2011 at 3:10 PM

Oops wrong thread…

Buy Danish on October 24, 2011 at 3:16 PM

Romney was alive in 1977 so he it’s his fault! – Dr. Evil./

Buy Danish on October 24, 2011 at 2:45 PM

You sure are easy to rattle, I thought Mormon’s weren’t supposed to use stimulants?

Dr Evil on October 24, 2011 at 3:19 PM

You sure are easy to rattle, I thought Mormon’s weren’t supposed to use stimulants?
Dr Evil on October 24, 2011 at 3:19 PM

I’m not a Mormon you JACKASS! Oh, and please don’t come back and tell me that I’m “rattled”. I’m not rattled in the least – I’m destroying your idiotic arguments with facts and information and I’m enjoying every minute of it.

Buy Danish on October 24, 2011 at 3:24 PM

In as much as the illegal immigration problem in Texas is Perry’s fault.
cozmo on October 24, 2011 at 2:53 PM

Huh?

Buy Danish on October 24, 2011 at 3:26 PM

You’ve failed in your argument when you result to insults and name calling. You might as well hold the white flag up and say I surrender. If you have to use these crutches for your argument its weak. This is goes to everyone on here. Lets grow up a bit with the name calling nonsense. Make your point, defend your point and may the best argument and candidate win.

nswider on October 24, 2011 at 3:27 PM

As long as ILLEGAL aliens are in our country, the American Tax Payer is going to be stuck paying their medical bills, since their ILLEGAL status prevents them from buying health insurance.

The answer is to end or at least drastically reduce ILLEGAL immigration.

– Control the border

– Mandatory use of E-verify system by employers

– No citizenship for anchor babies

– Monitor and deport people who overstay Visas

– When ILLEGAL aliens go to the hospital we are required to give them the emergency treatment they need. But once they are stabilized they should be asked to pay their bill. Anybody who can’t pay their bill should have their citizenship/immigration status checked. Non-citizens who need American Tax Payers to pay their bills should be deported.

– End all federal funding to “sanctuary” cities.

– English language only for all government services

– No welfare benefits to non-citizens

– Check citizenship status for all public school children. We may be required to educate all K-12 kids, but Tax Payers have a right to know how many non-citizens they are paying to educate in each school district.

– No in-state tuition discounts for ILLEGAL aliens who should not be in the state at all.

– Anybody who is arrested should have their citizenship/immigration status checked. ILLEGAL aliens should be deported either immediately or after they have served their prison sentences depending on the nature of the crime.

– ILLEGAL aliens caught driving without a license or insurance should be immediately deported.

– Landlords should be required to verify immigration status when renting an apartment.

– Anybody caught harboring or employing an ILLEGAL alien should be prosecuted.

– Anybody who is caught being in the country ILLEGALLY should be deprted and prevented from qualifying to re-enter the country in the future.

– American citizens should boycott any business that is caught employing ILLEGAL aliens.

If we enforced even half of the policies above, most ILLEGAL aliens would go home on their own and paying for their health care expenses would no longer be an issue.

wren on October 24, 2011 at 3:30 PM

Huh?

Buy Danish on October 24, 2011 at 3:26 PM

Just as I figured, Romney gets a pass, but no one else.

cozmo on October 24, 2011 at 3:36 PM

The only other way around that is to deny care without insurance or cash, which is politically untenable even in red states, let alone Massachusetts.

One of these days we’re going to all realize we have to do what is financially tenable without regard for whether it is politically untenable.

Personally, I think we’re there – but like so many other specific areas of spending, we’re not having the rational discussion yet that has to happen – we’re still pretending we have a choice to continue to avoid the ‘politically untenable’. We don’t.

Midas on October 24, 2011 at 3:45 PM

Team Romney needs a Plan B.

Dr Evil on October 24, 2011 at 12:33 PM

Romneycare has had whatever effect it is going to have on Romney already. This illegal issue is moot because all states do it. Romney tried to mitigate it by having those uninsured use cheaper facilities rather than the emergency rooms. Perry clearly doesn’t care about his state as he knows the emergency rooms are being used and refuses to find a cheaper solution. On top of that, he burdens the tax payers even more by adding an additional magnet with his education policy. Illegals from other states move there for those benefits and not lose a dime in medical benefits.

Yeah, Perry should jump right on that issue. lol

csdeven on October 24, 2011 at 4:06 PM

Just as I figured, Romney gets a pass, but no one else.
cozmo on October 24, 2011 at 3:36 PM

Wow, you sure read a lot into “HUH?” Dr. Evil is blaming Romney for Obama’s Aunt, who was here because of events and legal agreements which happened in 1977. Where have I done that to, say, Perry?

Buy Danish on October 24, 2011 at 4:10 PM

Oh come on. Deval Patrick did not only make a lot of changes in that Mass Health Care law in regards to subsidies to access, he has made a point of bragging about it..

It is ridiculous to blame it all on Mitt Romney..especially considering the fact that there is probably not a state in the country that does not pay for health care for illegals..just imagine what the emergency room costs in the state of Texas must be..and who pays for that?

This is just another tiresome attempt to beat Romney over the head with this issue while at the same time ignoring Rick Perry’s own situation in Texas.

Terrye on October 24, 2011 at 4:12 PM

Just as I figured, Romney gets a pass, but no one else.
cozmo on October 24, 2011 at 3:36 PM

It seems to me that it is just the opposite..why to hear the folks at Hot Air tell it Mitt Romney has been supreme ruler in Massachusetts for years and years and anything that happened there is his personal responsibility…not the sitting Governor today or the legislature, or the citizens of the state or the courts of the state..no it is just Romney..all by himself while guys like Perry {true conservatives} have stood bravely against the horrors of the nanny state. Please.

Terrye on October 24, 2011 at 4:16 PM

Every state in the nation also pays for non-college educated people. They pay for drug enforcement, medicaid, jails, K-12 education, Hospitals, etc…

I’ve read at least 10 people make the argument that this is OK because Mitt was just trying to save the people of Mass. a little bit of money. It’s so funny that they will use that defense but get up in arms over letting people (from anywhere) who lives in TX for over 3 years get an in-state tuition discount (still not the full in-state rate).

Perry’s reasoning was the exact same as Mitts. Let’s get these people doing something other than robbing liquor stores or working in a field, collect more taxes, and hopefully, let them support their own families rather than everyone else subsidizing huge Mexican families with food, k-12, etc.

Get rid of the people, neither Mitt, Rick or any other governor will have this problem, but as long as they are here, we have to make the best of the situation. I’m not saying I agree with Perry and/or Romney. I am, however, saying that the two ideas/policies are no different. They are the result of terrible policy and enforcement by the Feds.

Everyone needs to get off the jack-wagon and start supporting the person who has the most conservative record, will govern that way, and will take it to the liberals as heatedly as possible. I could care less about who we nominate as long as it isn’t a liberal.

And if things continue the way they are, that’s exactly what we are going to do.

preallocated on October 24, 2011 at 4:17 PM

Some commenters are apparently unable to comprehend the nuance of my post, so I’ll be a little more blunt: any kind of cost reduction effort has to address the people using emergency rooms as clinics. Since it’s nearly impossible for nurses to do immigration checks, illegals will get health care regardless of whether they get forced into emergency rooms or have an option to go into clinics. The only other way around that is to deny care without insurance or cash, which is politically untenable even in red states, let alone Massachusetts. RomneyCare, with its mandate for universal insurance, had to have a structure for clinics to address those who couldn’t afford any in order to reduce those costs, which is why HSN was inevitable, regardless of when it started.

Here is nuance..even in a state like Indiana where I live illegals still get health care and if they can’t pay for it someone else does that someone is going to be an American taxpayer.

Terrye on October 24, 2011 at 4:19 PM

I’ve read at least 10 people make the argument that this is OK because Mitt was just trying to save the people of Mass. a little bit of money. It’s so funny that they will use that defense but get up in arms over letting people (from anywhere) who lives in TX for over 3 years get an in-state tuition discount (still not the full in-state rate).
preallocated on October 24, 2011 at 4:17 PM

Oh please! You are completely distorting what has been said here. Is it or is it not a fact that federal law requires the states to treat the indigent? Is it or is it not a fact that Romney tried to come up with a solution to reduce the burden on taxpayers in this regard?

Is there any federal law to that effect requiring in-state tuition rates for the children of illegals?

Buy Danish on October 24, 2011 at 4:24 PM

My one question is this:

Someone, seriously, please tell me one major conservative thing that Romney did as governor of MA. Not some BS he has said or flipped on while running for President the last 8 years.

I want to know something that is conservative through and through that the man absolutely would no compromise on while governing in MA. I want to see the conservative fire in his belly, taking it to Ted Kennedy. I’m not saying it’s not out there, but all you Romney supporters … what is it that Romney did to shrink government etc?

There no major flagship issue that Romney has been and remains a conservative on is there?

Abortion – http://www.salon.com/2011/08/10/romney_abortion/

Immigration – http://www.alipac.us/article-print-1737.html

Healthcare -http://masscare.org/

Gun Control – http://www.issues2000.org/Governor/Mitt_Romney_Gun_Control.htm'>Check

Global Warming http://articles.boston.com/2011-06-04/news/29685848_1_global-warming-climate-change-greenhouse-gases

Raise taxes – http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/08/romneys-sp-revelation-renews-old-tax-fight.php

Those are the facts … What else is there? This is no different than Kerry running into Joseph Smith in the forest, having a little conversion and then trying to run on the Republican ticket for President 8 years later.

preallocated on October 24, 2011 at 4:27 PM

I’m not a Mormon you JACKASS! Oh, and please don’t come back and tell me that I’m “rattled”. I’m not rattled in the least – I’m destroying your idiotic arguments with facts and information and I’m enjoying every minute of it.

Buy Danish on October 24, 2011 at 3:24 PM

LOL you’re a nut.

Dr Evil on October 24, 2011 at 4:48 PM

I’m not a Mormon you JACKASS! Oh, and please don’t come back and tell me that I’m “rattled”. I’m not rattled in the least – I’m destroying your idiotic arguments with facts and information and I’m enjoying every minute of it.

Buy Danish on October 24, 2011 at 3:24 PM

Try a deep breathing exercise.

In.hold.out.In.hold.out.

portlandon on October 24, 2011 at 4:50 PM

No one cares.
The only way Romney could hurt himself is to come out and call people “heartless”.
Then it will be all over.

carbon_footprint on October 24, 2011 at 4:54 PM

This looks worse than it really is, however, mainly because of the reality of American health care in every state.
-Ed Morrissey

Some commenters are apparently unable to comprehend the nuance of my post, so I’ll be a little more blunt: any kind of cost reduction effort has to address the people using emergency rooms as clinics. Since it’s nearly impossible for nurses to do immigration checks, illegals will get health care regardless of whether they get forced into emergency rooms or have an option to go into clinics. The only other way around that is to deny care without insurance or cash, which is politically untenable even in red states, let alone Massachusetts
-Ed Morrissey

I know you need to get hits Ed, but this was not the way to do it. You sensationalized a libelous story against Romney. I love you man, but if you’re going to post against Romney, at least be intellectually honest in the headline as well as the main story.

scotash on October 24, 2011 at 5:02 PM

This is a dead horse. Quit beating it. What MA does isn’t what Romney will do when his base is conservative and moderate. That’s not how politics works.

flataffect on October 24, 2011 at 5:34 PM

This is a dead horse. Quit beating it. What MA does isn’t what Romney will do when his base is conservative and moderate. That’s not how politics works.

flataffect on October 24, 2011 at 5:34 PM

You left out “status quo” that’s how the establishment republican party works, to which Mitt Romney is a member.

Dr Evil on October 24, 2011 at 6:04 PM

The have to seek legal status, not any “path to citizenship”. At least get it right.

cartooner on October 24, 2011 at 12:52 PM

And what is the expiration date on that legal status? Right, there is not one. Legal status gets them a green card, then comes residency status, then comes citizenship. Legal status is just a speed bump on the path to citizenship.

Texas Gal on October 24, 2011 at 7:32 PM

Well for one thing, K-12 education is mandated by law. College is not.

Buy Danish on October 24, 2011 at 3:10 PM

So?

I still don’t get why you don’t think it’s an outrage that the SCOTUS is making you educate illegals until they graduate high school, but some illegal kid paying his own way for community college drives everybody nuts.

Both things are legal.

capitalist piglet on October 24, 2011 at 10:52 PM

Both things are legal.
capitalist piglet on October 24, 2011 at 10:52 PM

States have different laws vis a vis college and illegals. Texas is voluntarily giving them tuition breaks. That distinction does not exist with K-12 schools. Whether we should be obligated to educate illegals at all is an entirely different topic.

Buy Danish on October 25, 2011 at 6:45 AM