Good news: Libya embraces shari’a law while Islamists are poised to win big in Tunisian elections

posted at 6:45 pm on October 24, 2011 by Allahpundit

No worries. It’s moderate shari’a.

“Any law that violates sharia is null and void legally,” he said, citing as an example the law on marriage passed during the slain dictator’s 42-year tenure that imposed restrictions on polygamy, which is permitted in Islam.

“The law of divorce and marriage… This law is contrary to sharia and it is stopped,” Abdel Jalil said.

His comments have provoked criticism and calls for restraint both in Libya and in Europe, amid fears that the Arab Spring may give rise to a potentially intolerant Islamist resurgence.

Many Libyans awaiting Sunday’s historic speech expressed surprise at the decision by the National Transitional Council leader to mention the role of sharia law in the new country before addressing such important issues as security and education.

Among the new shari’a-ized institutions will be Libya’s marriage laws, which means, among other things, legalizing polygamy and eliminating women’s right to keep the family home in cases of divorce. Said one Libyan feminist who’s already afraid to give reporters her full name, “We did not slay Goliath so that we now live under the Inquisition.” A State Department spokesman, when asked about NATO’s glorious triumph in birthing a new Islamic republic in north Africa, wheezed, “The term [shari'a] has broad application and is understood differently.” Translation: Hopefully it won’t be as bad as Saudi Arabia. Hopefully.

I’ll give you three reasons why you should feel only mostly, rather than totally, terrible about this. One: It’s inevitable. Whatever meager civic institutions existed in Egypt and Libya before Mubarak and Qaddafi have long since disintegrated. In Libya, especially, they’re basically rebuilding society from scratch, so no surprise that they’d turn to their one common bond as a foundation, especially when that common bond comes with a ready-made legal code built into it. And if you agree with Reuel Marc Gerecht that all societies follow the same basic civic learning curve — although some take much longer than others to advance — then a period of Islamist fascist rule is all part of the lesson on the way to something better. (Iran, of course, has been there and done that.) As Gerecht once put it, “you don’t get to arrive at Thomas Jefferson unless you first pass through Martin Luther.” Let’s hope so. And let’s hope it takes less than 250 years this time.

Two: It might not matter on the ground. It’s hard to believe Libya will escape a loyalist insurgency and/or tribal warlordism, so the next few years will be sunk in chaos and infighting whatever the country’s formal legal regime might be. That’s a horrible outcome in its own right, but the risk of some Khomeini-esque charismatic leader consolidating power and building a jihadi military threat are way less than the risk of Libya fracturing between Islamists and their political enemies in a civil war a la 90s Afghanistan or Somalia today. Wherever there’s chaos and Islamists with guns, there’s bound to be plenty of Al Qaeda creeping around and looking for a place to hide out, so consider NATO’s drone campaign against Qaddafi this year a warm-up for the big jihadi whack-a-mole operation to come. Silver lining: We know the terrain now! Meanwhile, in Egypt, you’ve got an entrenched military that will be loath to cede power to Islamists, whether democratically elected or not, if it would mean jeopardizing its economic interests. Venality is still a nice hedge against fundamentalism, even after the Arab Spring. The Egyptian army likely won’t let the Muslim Brotherhood do anything too nutty that might put it, or its business, in harm’s way.

Three: Arab voters will want to see progress quickly after elections are held and, given the state of north Africa’s economy, the odds of that happening are vanishingly small. And you know who that doesn’t benefit? Tunisia’s Islamists sure do:

If official results, which may be released as early as Tuesday, support those results, it would be a substantially better showing for the Islamists than many predicted. The center-left Tekatil Party and a party lead by a leading human-rights activist, the Congress Party for the Republic, looked set to come in second and third. The party most predicted to place second, the staunchly secular Progressive Democratic Party and Nahda’s most outspoken critics, did far worse than expected…

Inside the party’s offices, meanwhile, Nahda’s leaders had already begun wrestling with the burden of their unexpected success. An aide handed Nahda politburo member Said Ferjani a memo from a party number cruncher who predicted the party would win 50% to 55% of seats in the incoming assembly.

“This is bad news if it’s true,” Mr. Ferjani said.

Many in the party fear such a dominant showing for Nahda could spur rivals to join forces against it and leave Nahda holding the blame when Tunisians’ high expectations go unmet.

A spokesman for the secularist party said, sarcastically, “We congratulate the winning party and wish them good luck fulfilling their promises to meet the demands of the poor and unemployed within a year.” Groups like Nahda and the Muslim Brotherhood are telling people that Islam is the answer to their troubles, economic and otherwise, so give ‘em a good hard dose and let them see how well it works in practice. And if, as expected, the ruling parties end up canceling the next election after public opinion about them sours, that’s all part of Gerecht’s learning curve. If he’s right, this will all work out — eventually — when the Islamists are themselves dislodged via some sort of Green Revolution and something comparatively more secular and liberal replaces them. My hunch is that it won’t work that way, that the lesson gleaned from Islamists governing horribly and then canceling elections will be that elections don’t work rather than “Islamism doesn’t work.” And Gerecht’s model tacitly assumes that the makings of a more liberal society are there if the right leadership is installed. I’m skeptical about that for the same reason as Spengler, writing about Egypt a few weeks ago: “Western economists can concoct all the economic recovery plans in the world, but a country that can’t teach half its people to read, and can’t produce employable university graduates, and can’t feed itself, is going to go down the drain.” So the Islamists will fail — and then the moderate regime that replaces them will fail, so who knows what the real next stop on this learning curve is. Only one thing is certain: Given the region’s track record, it’ll be awesome.

If you missed it in Headlines, here’s video of a Libyan rebel apparently sodomizing Qaddafi with a knife. A thought no human being ever had prior to a few days ago: “You know, I almost feel a little bad for Qaddafi.”

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Said one Libyan feminist who’s already afraid to give reporters her full name, “We did not slay Goliath so that we now live under the Inquisition.”

Unfortunately for her, she will find little to no support from the feminists of the Western nations.

Thank you, President Obama.

-crr6

INC on October 24, 2011 at 6:51 PM

Well, what did you expect?

That said, it is all a gamble. They can do whatever the hell they want, if they leave us alone. But my confidence level on that? Slim to none.

neoavatara on October 24, 2011 at 6:51 PM

His comments have provoked criticism and calls for restraint both in Libya and in Europe, amid fears that the Arab Spring may give rise to a potentially intolerant Islamist resurgence.

The Captain Louis Renault Award

sharrukin on October 24, 2011 at 6:51 PM

I feel so very sorry for these people, especially for the women.

But, with that said, I am not surprised At All.

If I lived in Israel, I would be making plans to move far away asap. Scary.

bridgetown on October 24, 2011 at 6:52 PM

Thanks Obama…

sandee on October 24, 2011 at 6:52 PM

My hunch is that it won’t work that way, that the lesson gleaned from Islamists canceling elections will be that elections don’t work rather than “Islamism doesn’t work.”

Nonsense! /

Kataklysmic on October 24, 2011 at 6:53 PM

Hooray! Sharia will have an influence in yet another Middle East country Obama intervened in. Kudos, Obama. Your foreign policy is above reproach.

madmonkphotog on October 24, 2011 at 6:53 PM

So yeah…. big victory in Libya. Mission accomplished.

Keep patting yourself on the back there Obama.

Scrappy on October 24, 2011 at 6:53 PM

No worries. It’s moderate shari’a.

that’s what they said about the rabbit dangit….and we see how that turned out!

ted c on October 24, 2011 at 6:56 PM

A spokesman for the secularist party said, sarcastically, “We congratulate the winning party and wish them good luck fulfilling their promises to meet the demands of the poor and unemployed within a year.”

“…this was the moment…”

Yeah there’s been a lot of that going around. Governments: loooong on promises, longer on excuses for failure.

P.S. Glenn Beck was, like, totally crazy right? *quack quack*

Weight of Glory on October 24, 2011 at 6:57 PM

Obama/Hillary smartpower.

Danger! Half-wits at work.

Zorro on October 24, 2011 at 6:58 PM

Don’t know what to say.

We all knew with such certainty this was comming, that the announcement seems anti-climatic.

listens2glenn on October 24, 2011 at 6:59 PM

If you missed it in Headlines, here’s video of a Libyan rebel apparently sodomizing Qaddafi with a knife. A thought no human being ever had prior to a few days ago: “You know, I almost feel a little bad for Qaddafi.”

dudde…1?1 i couldn’t watch that .. its freaky sad weird or something.

ted c on October 24, 2011 at 7:00 PM

Dear Lord that was brutal but expected by these “freedom fighters.”Yes Khadfy was a horrible tyrant, but this just shows what Libyans can expect from their “liberators.” Obama and Hillary you have blood on your hands.

sandee on October 24, 2011 at 7:01 PM

Someone has to pin the admin down on what they are doing and what they expect in Libya. It’s has disaster written all over it. Also, this statement that all troops will be out by the end of the year has disaster written all over it. The troops won’t be home but it has an immediate ameliorative exhale just like Gitmo closing within one year. Pray for us!

rjoco1 on October 24, 2011 at 7:02 PM

If this is “spring”, I can’t wait to see what the Dog Days of Summer are going to be like…

Jaibones on October 24, 2011 at 7:03 PM

That makes two countries in the volatile Middle East, Egypt and Libya, who have headed straight toward a fervent embrace of radical Sharia Law, after disposing of their secular despots, cheered on by President Barack Hussein Obama and his State Department practitioners of Smart Power!

And this helps the United States, how?

kingsjester on October 24, 2011 at 7:04 PM

P.S. Glenn Beck was, like, totally crazy right? *quack quack*

Weight of Glory on October 24, 2011 at 6:57 PM

Weight of Glory:Glen gets animated,which I love,however da Left,
doesn’t understand him,which is there problem!

I think,most on H/A,knew with Obama at the wheel,
doing speech’s,and sitting back,that this was go
ing to happen!

Iran,is having a field day,just wait till Obama
packs up,and leaves Iraq!:)

canopfor on October 24, 2011 at 7:05 PM

I must say I agree with Gerecht and a few others. No one knows how long this process is going to take but we all know there is ebb and flow to these things.

Them not knowing how to read really isn’t sufficient evidence for anything. Almost all cultures historically has had very little literacy but have become powerful over time. The Greco-Roman world is a good example. All of this is something that has to happen before things get better.

Jesse on October 24, 2011 at 7:06 PM

Groups like Nahda and the Muslim Brotherhood are telling people that Islam is the answer to their troubles, economic and otherwise, so give ‘em a good hard dose and let them see how well it works in practice.

So, they’ll give them a good hard dose, consolidate power, control information, economic activity and freedom and voila’….right back to where we started right?

ted c on October 24, 2011 at 7:07 PM

Exactly what a certain Kenyan Muslim would want. Coincidence?

Apologetic California on October 24, 2011 at 7:08 PM

And this helps the United States, how?

kingsjester on October 24, 2011 at 7:04 PM

O! cannot be bothered with that. He’s very busy campaigning and praying to the east five times a day.

predator on October 24, 2011 at 7:09 PM

canopfor on October 24, 2011 at 7:05 PM

No doubt, canopfor.

Weight of Glory on October 24, 2011 at 7:10 PM

What was it that Cr666 used to post?
Thank you, President Obama.

carbon_footprint on October 24, 2011 at 7:11 PM

islam will be islam. At the end of the day, a non-interventionist policy is the only one that won’t end up with the US giving aid to islam.

keep the change on October 24, 2011 at 7:14 PM

What was it that Cr666 used to post?
Thank you, President Obama.

carbon_footprint on October 24, 2011 at 7:11 PM

Whatever happened to Cr666? Ban Hammer? Mental Institution? Busy at OWS?

predator on October 24, 2011 at 7:15 PM

What was it that Cr666 used to post?
Thank you, President Obama.

carbon_footprint on October 24, 2011 at 7:11 PM

Where has cr been? I haven’t seen anything from her in a long while.

Scrappy on October 24, 2011 at 7:15 PM

predator on October 24, 2011 at 7:15 PM

Scrappy on October 24, 2011 at 7:15 PM

So it wasn’t just me that noticed…

Scrappy on October 24, 2011 at 7:15 PM

Le Oops!!
=========

U.S. spent nearly $1 billion to help Libya usher in a radical fundmentalist Islamic government
Posted: October 24, 2011
**************************

http://barenakedislam.wordpress.com/2011/10/24/u-s-spent-nearly-1-billion-to-help-libya-usher-in-a-radical-fundmentalist-islamic-government/

canopfor on October 24, 2011 at 7:16 PM

It’s moderate shari’a.

yeah right…

feels very oxymoronish

cmsinaz on October 24, 2011 at 7:17 PM

Where has cr been? I haven’t seen anything from her in a long while.

Scrappy on October 24, 2011 at 7:15 PM

Don’t know, don’t care and wish people would stop trying to bring crr into the conversation. At first it was cute and/or funny. Now, it’s just pathetic.

bridgetown on October 24, 2011 at 7:17 PM

kingsjester on October 24, 2011 at 7:04 PM

great piece KJ…

cmsinaz on October 24, 2011 at 7:19 PM

Don’t know, don’t care and wish people would stop trying to bring crr into the conversation. At first it was cute and/or funny. Now, it’s just pathetic.

bridgetown on October 24, 2011 at 7:17 PM

As much as I think she’s a fool. I’d prefer at least a little dissent over the echo chamber.

Scrappy on October 24, 2011 at 7:20 PM

islam will be islam. At the end of the day, a non-interventionist policy is the only one that won’t end up with the US giving aid to islam.

keep the change on October 24, 2011 at 7:14 PM

Agreed. I’m sick of blood and treasure being spent to help these people who don’t even slightly deserve our help. Screw all of them.

NathanG on October 24, 2011 at 7:22 PM

If A = B
and B = C
Then why is it so difficult to understand A = C.

This outcome was built in from the beginning. Only those infected by
LAV (Liberal a.. virus)would have bought the hope and change canard again.

chemman on October 24, 2011 at 7:23 PM

Don’t know, don’t care and wish people would stop trying to bring crr into the conversation. At first it was cute and/or funny. Now, it’s just pathetic.

bridgetown on October 24, 2011 at 7:17 PM

I’m not as regular of a commenter as most folks here. Didn’t know it had become such a drag. Just thought I’d have a little fun at it’s expense. Apologies.

predator on October 24, 2011 at 7:24 PM

In case,anyone missed this!
=============================

Radical Ground Zero Mosque Imam: Obama’s Cairo Speech to Muslim World Came From Me
Tuesday, August 24, 2010
*************************

Well that’s just swell.
The radical imam who said the US is worse than Al-Qaeda, boasted to reporters last year that he provided the blue print for Obama’s apology speech to the Muslim world.

For an Imam in New York to be involved in the orchestrating U.S. foreign policy is quite the claim. In the recording dated February 5th, 2010 Rauf boasted that:
(More…..)
==============

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2010/08/radical-ground-zero-mosque-imam-obamas-cairo-speech-to-muslim-world-came-from-me/

canopfor on October 24, 2011 at 7:24 PM

It’s moderate shari’a.
yeah right…

feels very oxymoronish

cmsinaz on October 24, 2011 at 7:17 PM

cmsinaz:And moronic too…..:)

canopfor on October 24, 2011 at 7:26 PM

Mission Accomplished.

pedestrian on October 24, 2011 at 7:28 PM

If you want to see how barbaric these guys are, click this video that I am posting. I repeat, it is EXTREMELY GRAPHIC.

You will see the rebels using a gun to sodomize a dead black soldier. I am not surprised about any of this. I have been saying for a while how evil these guys are.

http://libyasos.blogspot.com/2011/07/v-18-pro-democracy-harassment-dead.html

Chudi on October 24, 2011 at 7:29 PM

And if, as expected, the ruling parties end up canceling the next election after public opinion about them sours, that’s all part of Gerecht’s learning curve. If he’s right, this will all work out — eventually — when the Islamists are themselves dislodged via some sort of Green Revolution and something comparatively more secular and liberal replaces them.

Advice to rebels. Don’t turn in your weapons just yet.

a capella on October 24, 2011 at 7:29 PM

“It’s hard to believe Libya will escape a loyalist insurgency and/or tribal warlordism, so the next few years will be sunk in chaos and infighting whatever the country’s formal legal regime might be…”

Just wait until Europe notices that Libya isn’t exporting as much oil as they used to…

… Oh, wait!

Seven Percent Solution on October 24, 2011 at 7:29 PM

http://www.libertarianrepublican.net/2011/10/here-it-is-euro-jihadist-opens-up-and.html

A well-spoken and surprisingly articulate Danish-speaking Muslim immigrant explains how Islam will soon come to dominate all of Denmark.

Initially, we will not implement the penal system. Initially we will patrol and grab people who drink and gamble, everything that is forbidden in Islam… Sharia must spread. It must dominant over all other ruling systems… it is so exciting… The goal is that Islam be dominant… Muslims have rejected the Danish system, and want something alternative… Islamic law.

jp on October 24, 2011 at 7:31 PM

canopfor on October 24, 2011 at 7:26 PM

yup :)

cmsinaz on October 24, 2011 at 7:34 PM

Are Barry and Hillary addicted to blood? Is too much never enough?

Christien on October 24, 2011 at 7:36 PM

Too bad for the women or anyone who might have wanted freedom.

But, come on, everyone knew this was coming. Large swaths of the world are devoured by Islam as it devolves further and further into a long, brutal dark age.

Urban Infidel on October 24, 2011 at 7:37 PM

Interesting!
============

Libya Unrest and US Policy
Sept 29 2011
*************

The Obama Administration has begun transferring $1.5 billion in frozen Libyan assets for the
benefit of the Libyan people and the TNC. According to the State Department, the $1.5 billion
was identified in consultation with the TNC for the following purposes:5

• Transfers to international humanitarian organizations: Up to $120 million for
pending United Nations Appeal requests and up to $380 million more for any
revised U.N. Appeals for Libya and other humanitarian needs.
• Transfers to suppliers for fuel and other goods for strictly civilian purposes: Up
to $500 million to pay for fuel costs for strictly civilian needs (e.g., hospitals,
electricity, and desalinization) and for other humanitarian purchases.
• Transfers to the Temporary Financial Mechanism established by the Libya
Contact Group: Up to $400 million for providing “key social services, including
education and health” and up to $100 million for “food and other humanitarian
needs.”
Some Members of Congress have suggested that some frozen Libyan assets be directed, in
consultation with Libyan authorities, toward reimbursement of NATO countries for military
operations. Others are seeking to link the availability of assets frozen by the United States
Libyan cooperation with investigations into Qadhafi-era terrorist attacks.
==========

http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/row/RL33142.pdf

canopfor on October 24, 2011 at 7:38 PM

Are Barry and Hillary addicted to blood? Is too much never enough?

Christien on October 24, 2011 at 7:36 PM

Hillary: “We came, we saw, he died. *cackle, cackle*

Mission accomplished Hill-Rod?

predator on October 24, 2011 at 7:41 PM

jp on October 24, 2011 at 7:31 PM

There is a very simple answer to that. Unfortunately, the Danes are not the Vikings of old. ::sigh::

OldEnglish on October 24, 2011 at 7:41 PM

canopfor on October 24, 2011 at 7:38 PM

i wonder if that will actually be the end product….saying one thing and doing another are 2 different things with this administration…

cmsinaz on October 24, 2011 at 7:43 PM

Mission Accomplished.

pedestrian on October 24, 2011 at 7:28 PM

Indeed.

“The direct subordination of the law of the land to Shari’ah is reflected in the national constitutions of many Islamic countries, including the Constitutions the United States Government had oversight in drafting — both Afghanistan and Iraq.”

Rae on October 24, 2011 at 7:43 PM

This isn’t the Arab spring. What we are witnessing is the rebirth of the Islamic Empire and the Caliphate. The Beast with the mortal wound that was healed.

iceman1960 on October 24, 2011 at 7:44 PM

A State Department spokesman, when asked about NATO’s glorious triumph in birthing a new Islamic republic in north Africa

It is not a ‘glorious triumph’ solely owned by NATO, but a ‘glorious triumph’ co-owned by NATO and Barack Hussein Obama and the Washington DC Mega Mosque, also know as the Pentagon.

InkyBinkyBarleyBoo on October 24, 2011 at 7:50 PM

A thought no human being ever had prior to a few days ago: “You know, I almost feel a little bad for Qaddafi.”

I couldn’t watch that tape, but couldn’t help but think, in days past, our government had the foresight to predict something this heinous might happen and put forward an effort to ensure that it did not. Sadly, this administration could care less. I’m not sorry that the dirty little tyrant has been ousted, and yes, he should have given himself up when he had the chance…but I thought the United States favored human rights for all and they now seem to just shrug about the way that he died. It’s disgusting and disturbing. Good luck with your new “leaders” Libya.

scalleywag on October 24, 2011 at 7:55 PM

canopfor on October 24, 2011 at 7:38 PM
=========
i wonder if that will actually be the end product….saying one thing and doing another are 2 different things with this administration…

cmsinaz on October 24, 2011 at 7:43 PM

cmsinaz:Agreed,cannot trust this Administration,what I really
would like to know,are,who are the “Activists”,that
are working behind the scenes in Libya,on Obama’s be
half,or,directed by Obama!:)

canopfor on October 24, 2011 at 7:56 PM

Won’t anyone give a few cheers for the Joint Chiefs of Staff and the decisive roll they had in this ‘glorious triumph’ for Shariah?

InkyBinkyBarleyBoo on October 24, 2011 at 7:56 PM

Hopeys,Libya Musical Theme!

Yes,I know,not quite Libya,put its
close enough!
—————-

Giorgio Moroder – Midnight Express long theme
**********************************************

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QD4Ks_EMQBY&feature=related

canopfor on October 24, 2011 at 7:58 PM

InkyBinkyBarleyBoo on October 24, 2011 at 7:56 PM

Just make sure it’s done between prayers, otherwise they won’t hear you.

OldEnglish on October 24, 2011 at 7:58 PM

I posted this catchy Muslim Gangsta Rap from Tunisia back when the vegetable seller ignited himself. It now has the lyrics translated and they are even more revealing than I expected.

I imagine the moderate Muslims just have to reflect on the Muslim saints who spoke of freedom and democracy…………….wait…..I imagine the more moderate Muslims will delve into Muslim history and remember the time of freedom and equality………wait…….I imagine the moderate Muslims will search their literature for the wisdom of the respected scholars who wrote of the rights and social obligaaa………wait, wait, they can do this!……I imagine the mostly moderate Muslims will …………..never mind.

BL@KBIRD on October 24, 2011 at 8:01 PM

As Lawrence Auster correctly says, we killed him. There is no way that the “rebels” would have ever defeated him or captured him without our hellfire missiles and the French Mirages. Actually, they probably could have done without the Mirages. Despite all of Sarkozy’s preening, it was American military might that brought down Qaddafi and handed him over to the lynch mob that killed him (and ushered in Shariah law).

InkyBinkyBarleyBoo on October 24, 2011 at 8:03 PM

This is how democracy works. What did we expect, that we could perpetually recolonize the middle east by propping up pro-western dictators? Eventually our support of tyranny would have to yield, and thanks to the efforts of those tyrants, the only political factions left are those willing to persist despite violent clampdowns. Moderate, if liberal factions in these countries vanished under the oppressive regimes we ourselves supported. Chickens coming home to roost and whatnot.

ernesto on October 24, 2011 at 8:08 PM

Allah clarkbar!

profitsbeard on October 24, 2011 at 8:10 PM

ernesto on October 24, 2011 at 8:08 PM

Islam and Democracy share nothing in common!

OldEnglish on October 24, 2011 at 8:15 PM

OldEnglish on October 24, 2011 at 8:15 PM

Except, for the time being, Islamists haven’t won power. They will engage in an election – in democracy – as a means of achieving control of the state. It may be the only one they have, but there is no doubt that the voting that will commence in Libya, and the voting underway in Tunisia, are democratic exercises.

Now, the reason that Islamist parties will win these elections is simple: the dictators we supported ruthlessly suppressed other political factions. This radicalized whoever was willing to deal with jail sentences and beatings and remain in the game. This is especially true of socialists in these countries – before Israel came to dominate our thinking in the middle east, anti-communism was the name of the game. Mubarak was actually harder on the socialists than he was on the muslim brotherhood, and this is why only the brotherhood remains in Egypt. It is our fault. This is four decades of US foreign policy at work.

ernesto on October 24, 2011 at 8:21 PM

We turned against Kaddafi at the very moment that he began fighting on OUR side against al Qaeda. All that the al Qaeda people needed to do was align themselves with some people who called themselves democrats, and we (our military) were at their beck and call.

InkyBinkyBarleyBoo on October 24, 2011 at 8:00 PM

If it is any comfort, Clinton already helped create a Sharia state when you were bombing Christians to create Kosovo (out of the ancient Serb homeland)for squatting Albanian Muslims. Bush wrote Sharia constitutions for Iraq and Afghanistan. And France and the UN just handed over the Ivory Coast to Muslims earlier this year, so there is the company of misery.

If anyone in power in America had a handle on Islam things might be different, but they don’t.

….learning Islam is hard!!!…….

……………………Mattels Dhimmi Barbie

BL@KBIRD on October 24, 2011 at 8:22 PM

A thought no human being ever had prior to a few days ago: “You know, I almost feel a little bad for Qaddafi.”

He got what he deserved, and his torture was relatively short-lived. Having watched the full vidya at a Turkish YT channel last night, I’d say he got off light considering the way he’s treated his own people. It’s not for the faint of heart, but neither is war, totalitarianism and the torture and wholesale murder of political enemies.

[You'll know you have the right one if the shakiness of the cell cam gives it the sped-up feel of the running virals in 28 Days later].

Quoting Sam Jackson in ‘A Time to Kill,’ “I’m glad he’s dead and I hope he burns in hell!”

elcapt on October 24, 2011 at 8:25 PM

ernesto on October 24, 2011 at 8:21 PM

Your hubris on behalf of your nation and your stunning unfamiliarity with history does not look trendy on you ernie my boy.

BL@KBIRD on October 24, 2011 at 8:27 PM

ernesto on October 24, 2011 at 8:21 PM

I assume that you believe that voting in communist countries are democratic in nature, too?

OldEnglish on October 24, 2011 at 8:28 PM

BL@KBIRD on October 24, 2011 at 8:27 PM

So correct me. If my error is so glaring, it shouldn’t prove very difficult.

ernesto on October 24, 2011 at 8:29 PM

Now, the reason that Islamist parties will win these elections is simple: the dictators we supported ruthlessly suppressed other political factions.

ernesto on October 24, 2011 at 8:21 PM

The world does not revolve around the west. There are events taking place that have little or nothing to do with us. They choose their own course and it isn’t a direct, or indirect response to what we are doing or have done.

sharrukin on October 24, 2011 at 8:29 PM

Own that big policy success, champ.

Midas on October 24, 2011 at 8:30 PM

OldEnglish on October 24, 2011 at 8:28 PM

Socialists aren’t communists, last time I checked. Remember, socialist parties run democratic elections all over Europe. The notion that allowing socialist parties to simply exist in Egypt or Tunisia would have led to totalitarianism is simply unsubstantiated.

ernesto on October 24, 2011 at 8:31 PM

This is four decades of US foreign policy at work.

ernesto on October 24, 2011 at 8:21 PM

No, this is centuries of uneducated barbarism and belief in a violent sadistic cult at work.

Midas on October 24, 2011 at 8:33 PM

sharrukin on October 24, 2011 at 8:29 PM

Without the west, the dictators that are falling now would simply not have existed. Either way, if what you say is true, then you generally disagree with Romney’s recent assessment of Obama’s foreign policy…right?

ernesto on October 24, 2011 at 8:33 PM

Either way, if what you say is true, then you generally disagree with Romney’s recent assessment of Obama’s foreign policy…right?

ernesto on October 24, 2011 at 8:33 PM

Thats right I do disagree with Romney’s assessment.

sharrukin on October 24, 2011 at 8:35 PM

Thats right I do disagree with Romney’s assessment.

sharrukin on October 24, 2011 at 8:35 PM

Well at least we agree on that.

ernesto on October 24, 2011 at 8:37 PM

Ernesto….

You conclude that the Muslims of North Africa were held back from progressivism by cruel tyrants supported by America. America did walk in without a clue of the nature of things and has paid a high price for ignorance.

These peoples are about the same as they were under the Caliphate. Little better than ignorant slaves. They have remained the same despite the colonialism you blame for their oppression. The Europeans colonized north Africa around the eighteen twenties. It wasn’t to take their oil, it was to put a final end to Muslim piracy and a mortal blow to the Muslim slave trade and their all around asshattery. When the colonialists left, the Muslims went directly for what Islam has always gave them, a single strong cruel man as dictator (with some window dressing of western style political theatre with no real substance). Twas always thus with Islam and will always be. Had you taken me up on my suggestion to study a bit of Islam awhile back ernie, you would not have to ask me about it.

BL@KBIRD on October 24, 2011 at 8:49 PM

Socialists aren’t communists, last time I checked. Remember, socialist parties run democratic elections all over Europe. The notion that allowing socialist parties to simply exist in Egypt or Tunisia would have led to totalitarianism is simply unsubstantiated. ernesto on October 24, 2011 at 8:31 PM

Maybe, maybe not…but vertually all Communists were socialists at some point. With out socialism, there would be no communism.

jawkneemusic on October 24, 2011 at 8:57 PM

Regardless if Libya embraces secularism or fundamentalism, we should not be involved overseas like this.

V-rod on October 24, 2011 at 9:10 PM

Heh.

Springtime for Hitler and Germany

Deutschland is happy and gay

We’re marching to a faster pace

Look out, here comes the Master Race…

Pilgrimsarbour on October 24, 2011 at 9:12 PM

Islamists (know as muslims by those not slaves to PC) are poised to win big in Tunisian elections

Well at least Obama didn’t involve the U.S. military, and hence get their hands dirty too, in enabling and supporting more shariah law this time.

InkyBinkyBarleyBoo on October 24, 2011 at 9:15 PM

Either way, if what you say is true, then you generally disagree with Romney’s recent assessment of Obama’s foreign policy…right?

ernesto on October 24, 2011 at 8:33 PM

I don’t know about Romney but I certainly do disagree with Obama’s foreign policy of supporting shariah law.

InkyBinkyBarleyBoo on October 24, 2011 at 9:17 PM

“Springtime for Islam in Lib-y-a…”

disa on October 24, 2011 at 9:22 PM

to the tune of “Springtime for Hitler”

Springtime for Allah and the Caliphate
Shari’a is here-a to Stay…..

Red State State of Mind on October 24, 2011 at 9:23 PM

“Springtime for Islam in Lib-y-a…”

disa on October 24, 2011 at 9:22 PM

GMTA !

Red State State of Mind on October 24, 2011 at 9:23 PM

No more Coptics,

we can’t stand the Optics!

Red State State of Mind on October 24, 2011 at 9:27 PM

ernesto on October 24, 2011 at 8:31 PM

A communist is a socialist with a gun.

OldEnglish on October 24, 2011 at 10:17 PM

And if you agree with Reuel Marc Gerecht that all societies follow the same basic civic learning curve — although some take much longer than others to advance — then a period of Islamist fascist rule is all part of the lesson on the way to something better.

Fourteen hundred years of history suggest that Islam is such a powerful retrograde force that any society dominated by it is lucky to merely stagnate. By all appearances, the more likely outcome is devolution. The probability that an entrenched Islamist society will evolve socially approaches zero.

Political correctness has so strangled intelligent discourse on the subject that these outcomes were inevitable. Islam has been what it is for all these centuries, left bloody horror in its wake wherever it has gone, and yet people simply will not see it for what it is. Damned few are willing to describe the brutality and bigotry of Islam in anything approaching realistic terms, and virtually none who will have any political influence.

Islamists believe Allah commands them to deceive, to enslave, and to kill anyone who will not submit. What could be more evil? Sexual abuse of children? Oh, wait…

novaculus on October 24, 2011 at 10:44 PM

ernesto on October 24, 2011 at 8:31 PM

A communist is a socialist with a gun.

OldEnglish on October 24, 2011 at 10:17 PM

I was gonna say “a socialist is communist-lite”, but I like your analogy better.
: )

listens2glenn on October 24, 2011 at 11:07 PM

Obama smiles…all is going as planned.

albill on October 25, 2011 at 5:56 AM

What other US President has done so much to foment the growth of the Islamic state in the Middle East?

(Other than Jimmy Carter helping to oust the Shah of Iran and bring in Khomenei and his hordes of Muslim fundamentalists?)

albill on October 25, 2011 at 6:00 AM

Barack Obama, first muslim president.

Oil Can on October 25, 2011 at 8:05 AM

I was watching the Iranian leader interviewed on CNN the other night and was waiting for him to burst out in smiles and say, “Why should we bother to try to help bring down governments in the Middle East and install an Iranian-style oppressive Muslim fundamentalist government? Barack Obama is doing all the work for us. A Muslim’s gotta’ love that guy. Last stop is ‘Good-bye Israel’!”

What is going on today in the Middle East with Obama as US President is the equivalent of…..well, imagine that after WWII that President Truman was promoting and backing the installation of Soviet-style Communist governments in Japan, Germany and other European countries…

albill on October 25, 2011 at 8:18 AM

Qaddafi was not killed in retaliation for his attacks on American servicemen in Berlin in 1986, or the downing of Pan Am 103 over Lockerbie in 1988. He was not killed for his central role in the USSR’s terror networks going back to the 1960s and 1970s. He was killed after coming over to our side in George Bush’s “war on terror,” in the final phase of a civil war in Libya in which his regime fought al Qaeda affiliates. Horrific as it sounds, Qaddafi was killed because we (that would be our military) and our NATO allies joined the other side–the al Qaeda affiliates.

We turned against Kaddafi at the very moment that he began fighting on OUR side against al Qaeda. All that the al Qaeda people needed to do was align themselves with some people who called themselves democrats, and we (our military) were at their beck and call.

InkyBinkyBarleyBoo on October 24, 2011 at 8:00 PM

The blogger you quote also said: “As I’ve been saying all these months, I have not seen one mainstream politician or commentator denounce our immoral, criminal, and pro-Qaeda Libya policy, not one.”

I agree with all of this, except that Rand Paul and Michelle Bachmann did say something about ominous consequences, Rand Paul in his Republican Rebuttal earlier this year and Ms. Bachmann in an early GOP debate. Overall, however, the Republicans remained silent about this and many even lent their express approval of the war effort. I wrote my GOP Congressman expressing the same concerns as Rand Paul and received only a form, canned response supporting the war effort, proving that my letter wasn’t even read.

Yes, Obama orchestrated all of this, but our current GOP leadership failed to galvanize any kind of a unified voice in opposition. They will be almost as much to blame for any imposition of Sharia law in Libya as Obama will be.

As I stated before, the use of U.S. military force in Afghanistan and Iraq was justified, but in Libya it was not.

OneVision on October 25, 2011 at 8:59 AM

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