Video: How did Obama know about Fast and Furious before Holder?

posted at 7:54 pm on October 14, 2011 by Allahpundit

Via Breitbart TV, CNN asks an intriguing question but it’s not quite a smoking gun. Read Tom Maguire’s analysis of the timeline to see why Obama and Holder might have heard about F&F at around the same time. Per the clip, O obviously knew about it on March 22; Holder famously said during his May 3 testimony before Congress that he’d heard about Fast & Furious for the first time “over the last few weeks.” By the “last few weeks,” could he have been thinking of, say, mid-March? Maybe. It’s not an implausible estimate, especially for a guy with a lot on his plate, which means he might have heard about F&F before O after all. (We’re assuming for the sake of argument here, of course, that Holder wasn’t out-and-out lying during his testimony.) Here’s a better question, though. Is Obama suggesting here that the first time he learned about Fast & Furious was … on the news? If so, and if Holder really did know about the operation before he did, why on earth wasn’t he briefed by Holder or some other DOJ apparatchik immediately?

You know what the DOJ leadership’s core defense will end up being here, simply to avoid the perception of a cover up? “We didn’t know what was happening because we don’t pay attention to our own briefings.” And … maybe they don’t. Maybe they really are this incompetent and ill-informed:

On March 4, 2010, a memo “from” Gang Unit chief Kevin Carwile “to” three of Breuer’s top aides noted that days earlier a gang-unit attorney “met with ATF HQ to be briefed on developments in Operation Fast and Furious and various firearms tracking investigations based in Phoenix, AZ.” A week after that memo was sent, on March 11, Carwile sent a similar memo to the same three aides, again mentioning “Fast and Furious” by name.

But according to newly disclosed emails, Carwile didn’t know the name “Fast and Furious” five days after sending the second memo. In an email to the gang-unit attorney mentioned in the memos, he asked the attorney for “the name of the Arizona case/investigation.”

One source with knowledge of Justice Department procedure said the “to” and “from” lines in some department memos would be more accurate if they said “to the office of” and “from the office of.”

Ten months after Carwile’s memos, another one of the three aides who received them didn’t seem to know basic details about the “Fast and Furious” investigation. As indictments in the case were about to be announced earlier this year, Breuer’s chief of staff asked in one email, “Is the ‘Fast and Furious’ case ours or the [U.S. Attorney's Office's]?”

All along, I’ve been thinking that Holder and his aides were quietly supervising an insane operation to run guns to psychotic Mexican narcoterrorists, but it may be that Holder et al. are simply so clueless about what their own underlings are doing that an insane operation to run guns to psychotic Mexican narcoterrorists might escape their attention entirely — even after it’s been raised in briefings. I feel better now.

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They don’t hear what they don’t want to hear… what’s new?

leftnomore on October 14, 2011 at 7:57 PM

ATF: the Western version of the NKVD

BobMbx on October 14, 2011 at 7:58 PM

Meanwhile back in May of this year right around the time of Holder’s little lie.

http://hotair.com/archives/2011/05/25/obama-were-working-on-gun-control-under-the-radar/

William Amos on October 14, 2011 at 7:58 PM

It would be good news if they just were too inept to know what was going on. The alternative is dark indeed.

Limerick on October 14, 2011 at 7:58 PM

This simply must result in the naming of a special prosecutor. I Trust it will be someone who works faster than Ken Starr did with Clinton.

Zelsdorf Ragshaft on October 14, 2011 at 7:59 PM

How did Obama know about Fast and Furious before Holder?

The simplest answer is that Obama gave the order!

….Soooooo…Occam’s Razor says…

landlines on October 14, 2011 at 7:59 PM

bho and holder are so stupid they open mouth before brain gets acted?
L

letget on October 14, 2011 at 8:00 PM

OK I give up. How fkn hard is it for someone—anyone to just find out who authorized this and why? There is a large amount of money and manpower needed to run this. I just don’t think it was Agent Bobby in AZ and Detective Billy in TX.

arnold ziffel on October 14, 2011 at 8:02 PM

They knew.

jawkneemusic on October 14, 2011 at 8:02 PM

Limerick, these people are not inept. They have gotten most of what they went after. If that agent had not been killed, they would have been attacking our 2nd Amendment rights as I type this. Leftists are not interested in working within the law, they are only interested in outcome. This will be an outcome they did not wish. I still think it is time for us to start forming militias. It takes time to become well regulated.

Zelsdorf Ragshaft on October 14, 2011 at 8:03 PM

Fun times on Sunday

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/10/14/ftn/main20120732.shtml

Fast and Furious” in focus on Face the Nation

This Sunday’s guests are Chairman of the House Government Reform and Oversight Committee, Republican Rep. Darrell Issa; the ranking Democrat on the committee, Rep. Elijah Cummings; and CBS News investigative correspondent Sharyl Attkisson

William Amos on October 14, 2011 at 8:03 PM

Obama and Holder are both lying about when they “learned” about Fast and Furious.

F&F was part of a larger effort with multiple agendas, involving multiple cabinet level agencies. It was run from the top down, not from the bottom up.

novaculus on October 14, 2011 at 8:04 PM

Try again.

jawkneemusic on October 14, 2011 at 8:06 PM

They knew.

jawkneemusic on October 14, 2011 at 8:02 PM

You mean this one?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PNhYk9NuNc

sharrukin on October 14, 2011 at 8:06 PM

William Amos on October 14, 2011 at 8:03 PM

Atkisson will no doubt check Sipsey Street Irregulars, Robert Farago at The Truth About Guns, and Bob Owens over at PJM before the show is taped to get up to speed on the latest news, not that she will give them credit for anything she steals from them.

novaculus on October 14, 2011 at 8:06 PM

Holder makes our Prez look good. Maybe he can replace Biden.

IlikedAUH2O on October 14, 2011 at 8:08 PM

I’m not liking the way things are trickling out. It wouldn’t take much for an enterprising crisis PR team to start “rewriting the script” so to speak.

ninjapirate on October 14, 2011 at 8:10 PM

Holder said a “few” weeks ago. All that means is 3+ weeks. This is not Watergate, and–while “What did you know, and when did you know it”–has its place in Issa’s investigation, isn’t it more important to clarify the true intent of the program? If the true intent of FF was gun control via framing AZ gun stores, and going after Mexican cartels was the cover story, I think that’s where the investigation must go, ultimately.

Again, I don’t think the administration will face any serious consequences over this. Not enough people care about a dead agent and 100s of dead Mexicans, though they should.

Christien on October 14, 2011 at 8:11 PM

They knew.
jawkneemusic on October 14, 2011 at 8:02 PM
You mean this one?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PNhYk9NuNc

sharrukin on October 14, 2011 at 8:06 PM

Yuuuup!

jawkneemusic on October 14, 2011 at 8:12 PM

Now, now, AP. You don’t know for certain the narcoterrorists are psychotic. They just may have not received enough love from their parents.

John the Libertarian on October 14, 2011 at 8:12 PM

All along, I’ve been thinking that Holder and his aides were quietly supervising an insane operation to run guns to psychotic Mexican narcoterrorists, but it may be that Holder et al. are simply so clueless about what their own underlings are doing that an insane operation to run guns to psychotic Mexican narcoterrorists might escape their attention entirely — even after it’s been raised in briefings.

I don’t think so, I think a cover up is ongoing. The government’s official story is just too strange and nobody(few) have really had to account for what’s happened.

ninjapirate on October 14, 2011 at 8:12 PM

Only way to prevent a recurrence is to ban all guns./Obama

OldEnglish on October 14, 2011 at 8:13 PM

This is not Watergate

You’re right, it’s much worse.

jawkneemusic on October 14, 2011 at 8:13 PM

They’re not liars they’re incompetent schmos.

Whew.

Makes you think twice about their charges against Iran and the assassination plot, doesn’t it?

It does me.

AP?

SteveMG on October 14, 2011 at 8:14 PM

Most of the media still yawns at this massive scandal.

JammieWearingFool on October 14, 2011 at 8:15 PM

BTW, the big problem with that video is Obama’s body language and stuttering.

ninjapirate on October 14, 2011 at 8:16 PM

This is the CLASS Act, but with guns. More Obama/Jarret brilliance.

RedRedRice on October 14, 2011 at 8:19 PM

Obama knew before Holder because Obama is a Neutrino…. Speed of light is nothing.

chaswv on October 14, 2011 at 8:21 PM

Makes you think twice about their charges against Iran and the assassination plot, doesn’t it?

It does me.

AP?

SteveMG on October 14, 2011 at 8:14 PM

m first thought.

katy the mean old lady on October 14, 2011 at 8:22 PM

the ranking Democrat on the committee, Rep. Elijah Cummings;
William Amos on October 14, 2011 at 8:03 PM

What is absolutely galling is that this matter should not be political yet Cummings and Leahy are doing everything they can to sweep this under the rug. At least one US agent died and many Mexican citizens as a result of the operation. Just another peek inside their nasty leftist souls.

arnold ziffel on October 14, 2011 at 8:25 PM

Someone was talking about it at the 19th Hole?

malclave on October 14, 2011 at 8:28 PM

… but it may be that Holder et al. are simply so clueless about what their own underlings are doing that an insane operation to run guns to psychotic Mexican narcoterrorists might escape their attention entirely — even after it’s been raised in briefings. I feel better now.

Heh.

Oddly I really do. Hopefully it was just gross incompetence. The alternative is too disgusting to imagine.

Tim_CA on October 14, 2011 at 8:31 PM

to see why Obama and Holder might have heard about F&F at around the same time.

There are too many depts involved for underlings to have come up with this: Justice, State, Treasury and Homeland Security. BHO either has someone in the WH who is effectively taken over presidential powers or he knew from the beginning.

It’s beyond belief to think that underlings got together and decided to do something this risky and this illegal.

I think Bob Owens pointed out that lower-lever gov workers are not known for sticking their neck out and initiating procedures or projects that are fraught with risk.

INC on October 14, 2011 at 8:34 PM

When you’re lying about your lies and can’t remember which lies you told when you’re in trouble

ldbgcoleman on October 14, 2011 at 8:35 PM

Rahm told him in Nov. 2009.

tim c on October 14, 2011 at 8:38 PM

They used the same excuse on the economy. They basically claim that they had no idea how bad the economy really was, despite having a huge “brain” trust of people telling us we were on the verge of a Depression.

Pelosi said we’d have to pass the bill to find out what’s in it.

Their best defense is a complete lack of competence.

hawksruleva on October 14, 2011 at 8:38 PM

This is not Watergate

You’re right, it’s much worse.

jawkneemusic on October 14, 2011 at 8:13 PM

Nobody died during the Watergate break in or its aftermath.

darwin-t on October 14, 2011 at 8:45 PM

Does anyone remember this?

Obama has been working on gun control for years and has suggested that he can’t do it through Congress without help. He has taken gun control “Under the Radar”.

What does that mean exactly? Could Holder have actually not known about it because it is being run by Obama?

Personally, I don’t think we will ever find out the answer to that question. But it wouldn’t surprise me one bit if Obama has known about this from the beginning just so that he can show how bad guns are and call for more gun control.

Dannic on October 14, 2011 at 8:49 PM

TOTUS wasn’t there to save him from his own misquote.

b1jetmech on October 14, 2011 at 8:50 PM

This is not Watergate
You’re right, it’s much worse.
jawkneemusic on October 14, 2011 at 8:13 PM
Nobody died during the Watergate break in or its aftermath.
darwin-t on October 14, 2011 at 8:45 PM

Yes…I know.

jawkneemusic on October 14, 2011 at 8:50 PM

I see that F&F is going to be the main topic on Face The Nation Sunday:
“Fast and Furious” in focus on Face the Nation

whatcat on October 14, 2011 at 9:10 PM

but it may be that Holder et al. are simply so clueless about what their own underlings are doing that an insane operation to run guns to psychotic Mexican narcoterrorists might escape their attention entirely

AllahPundit

NOT.A.CHANCE.

Especially in a power hungry bureaucracy that already wields enormous power.

I think sir, that you are formulating any theory to grasp onto because the Truth means the end of the USA as you know it. Yeah, these people are traitors who want to see 25million whites dead.

Simple as that.

These people are traitors.

Why do you want to give him the doubt? Make him prove it. So far all hes done is lie.

orbitalair on October 14, 2011 at 9:27 PM

Friday Document Dump

It was announced that Special Forces were going into Uganda to train locals to fight a sadistic local warlord. Deja vu.

Fox reported 18 were killed in Somalia. I thought it was 19, not that I obsess with stuff like that.

Let us pray that this does not become a Fast and Furious II. Or Mogadishu II.

IlikedAUH2O on October 14, 2011 at 9:47 PM

Wait… Obama heard about F&F “on the news”?

Is he claiming he’s incompetent, or that his staff is?

Book on October 14, 2011 at 10:35 PM

If you think Obama and Holder did not know about this op from the outset, raise your hand….

… crickets….

I didn’t think so.

faraway on October 14, 2011 at 10:55 PM

AP, there’s no time for Holder to mess with the piddly stuff when there are big things on his plate. Like state immigration, racial injustice at fire stations, and making sure terrorists are punished within the courts.

AeroSpear on October 14, 2011 at 11:06 PM

“Maybe they really are this incompetent and ill-informed…”

Then by all means, let’s keep them in charge and give the government more authority and power. Granted, AP, I know that’s not what you’re stating, but anyone defending these guys with the premise that they were merely incompetent as opposed to malicious is either an idiot or a shill. At this point I still lean malicious for the former and shill for the latter.

Time for a Special Counsel? Or is that piece of government corrupt now, too, along with everything else?

AnonymousDrivel on October 14, 2011 at 11:08 PM

He who lives by running his mouth, dies by running his mouth.
-

RalphyBoy on October 14, 2011 at 11:35 PM

Is it really this difficult to find out who conceived this operation and who approved it? Whose came up with the idea and what was the purpose of NOT tracking the weapons- what was the intention behind it? Surely in this day and age there has to be some set of regulations in place governing how plans like this are laid out, how much they are budgeted and what their purpose is.

I’m still waiting for the press to ask Obama what the ATF hoped to accomplish by allowing guns to flow UNTRACED over the border to goodness knows where.

Who had the authority to okay an operation that allowed weapons to flow out of America and into the hands of criminals living in Mexico, which was a sovereign nation last time I checked? Seriously, we’re talking guns and grenades flowing over the border- if that isn’t an operation which requires White Hous-level authority, it’s time to start changing the rule book.

Also, wouldn’t an operation like this, which deliberately affected a foreign nation, have required some kind of legal appraisal? Who conducted that- and signed off on it?

Jay Mac on October 15, 2011 at 12:05 PM

I’m thinking it’s as easy as they’re thinking this cover up is so stupid, the stupid people in America wil buy it.

Some will, some won’t. But either way, the buck does indeed stop at the top. Obama! It’s on his shoulders. He either is running a corrupt government..which I personally believe he is, or he’s running an inept one, and his minions are circumventing their superiors in order to do crap like this? I find that one hard to believe.

capejasmine on October 15, 2011 at 3:12 PM