Lightning strikes twice: Cain 27, Romney 23, Perry 16, Paul 11

posted at 9:38 pm on October 12, 2011 by Allahpundit

In case you thought the PPP poll was a fluke, rest assured that he really is the frontrunner now.

In the previous survey, conducted in late August, Perry led the field at 38 percent, Romney stood at 23 percent, while Cain was at only 5 percent.

Cain’s numbers are sky-high among Republican primary voters. Fifty-two percent view him favorably, versus just 6 percent who see him unfavorably. Among Tea Party supporters, his favorable/unfavorable score is 69 percent to 5 percent. And among Republicans who identify themselves as “very conservative,” it’s 72 percent to 2 percent.

In follow-up interviews with respondents supporting Cain, they argue that he’s not a politician, and that he seems real. “He has common-sense answers and is in touch with the heartbeat of America,” said one respondent, a 46-year-old male from Florida…

Despite Cain’s rise and Perry’s fall over the past month and a half, Romney’s standing in the Republican horse race hasn’t changed—it was 23 percent in August, and it’s unchanged at 23 percent now.

Perry’s lost 22 points since the last poll — and not a single one went to Romney. That’s how reluctant base voters are to back him over some other conservative in the field. The good news for Romney is that he still has an electability argument against Perry. His favorables are 27/29 overall and he trails Obama by just two points head-to-head. Perry’s favorables are 19/36(!) and O leads him by an even dozen, 51/39, in a hypothetical match-up; Perry also trailed Obama by double digits in Rasmussen’s latest poll released this morning. (Cain’s favorables are 24/18 but, being mostly unknown, he trails Obama 49/38.) More interesting are the numbers for Romney and Perry among Republican voters. Mitt, the great RINO flip-flopper, has a favorable rating of 51/16 compared to just 43/23 for Perry. Even Gingrich, at 49/23, does better than that. Romney also beats Perry head-to-head, 54/39, and incredibly leads him ever so slightly when Republicans are asked how much a candidate shares their position on the issues. Here’s Romney’s line on that:

The first column is the number who rate him as “very good” (5 on a scale of 5), the second column is 4 on a scale of 5, etc. Here’s Perry’s line:

Amazing given that the whole reason Perry got into the race was because the base wanted a “Not Romney” who … shared their positions on the issues! Even more inexplicably, compare how Perry’s key vulnerability fares among Republicans with Romney’s key vulnerability. The “Ponzi scheme” rhetoric is no problem — in the primary, that is:

What is a problem, despite Chris Christie’s insistence that it’s intellectually dishonest to compare RomneyCare to ObamaCare, are health-care mandates at the state level. Here’s how primary voters responded when asked, respectively, whether a particular position makes them much more likely, somewhat more likely, somewhat less likely, or much less likely to vote for a candidate:

And here’s what they said about Romney specifically:

Not only is this issue toxic with Republicans, it’s become more toxic over the past three months — and yet Romney still clobbers Perry head to head. I wonder why. Could … this explain it? (Again, the columns represent much/somewhat more likely and somewhat/much less likely.)

Given Perry’s trajectory, the only path he has now to the nomination is by completely backing into it. Cain has to implode somehow, possibly by showing that he has less of a grasp on the issues than Perry (which wouldn’t be easy at this point), and then Perry would have to convince wary Republicans that Romney’s health-care heresy is so grave that it’s worth nominating him even though Romney’s better liked by the general electorate and almost certainly more electable against Obama. Good luck.

There’s actually quite a bit of good news for Obama in this poll too — the public supports his jobs bill, 63/32, supports raising taxes on “the wealthy” and corporations, 64/31, and supports Occupy Wall Street 38/17 — but I want to end on a positive note so I’ll leave you with two encouraging data points. One: On the question of whether people “feel comfortable” with Romney and don’t worry that his Mormonism will influence his decisions, the split among the general public is 47/21. Among Republicans, it’s 66/13. And two: You know that Mediscare campaign that Democrats are preparing to roll out next fall? It’s not as much of a winner as they might wish. Behold the results when voters are asked whether the issue would make them much/somewhat more likely to vote for a candidate or somewhat/much less:

Paul Ryan 1, Obama 0?

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kringeesmom on October 12, 2011 at 10:22 PM

Romney wants to have it both ways, so Zombie Elvis will be his final position. The Living Dead.

Daemonocracy on October 12, 2011 at 10:31 PM

OK, I see the 0-5 thingy….OK

ted c on October 12, 2011 at 10:32 PM

Ann Coulter: But… but… but… Romney’s electable !

silverfox on October 12, 2011 at 10:32 PM

Devastating. I honestly do not know how a human being can be so utterly devoid of any personal convictions.

Rational Thought on October 12, 2011 at 10:21 PM

But he’s electable!

I have a friend, an actor, who caters out here in Hollywood. He catered an event for Meg Whitman last year and Romney was featured speaker. I wish I could properly describe his portrait of Romney backstage — an image of vapid pep and effluent phoniness I shall not forget.

rrpjr on October 12, 2011 at 10:33 PM

These Romney numbers scare the hell out of me. He’s going to get the nomination, and Republican enthusiasm for him is just non-existent. In an election in which turnout will be everything, Romney will not be able to turn out voters. With Romney at the top of the ticket, Obama will probably win N.C., Virginia, and Florida, and that’s the whole thing.

Rational Thought on October 12, 2011 at 9:51 PM

Romney is not, nor has ever been, my choice in the primaries. But I respectfully disagree about your concern as to the turnout numbers in the general election. Conservatives and right-leaning independents are going to show up in droves, not for Romney or whoever it is, but against Obama. As they did in the 2010 mid-terms.

This is a completely different election than ’08, with a distasteful McCain against another perceived moderate, Obama. A lot of people stayed home, since to them it was a choice between Frick and Frack, and there was an over-arching, tired-of-Bush factor, too. But, now that almost everyone knows about Frack, whether they see him as an incompetent or as the socialist, America-hater that he is, they will be coming with pitchforks and torches to the voting booths next November to send Obama packing.

That’s why I hope it’s not Romney who gets the nomination, don’t want a Frick at all, but this nation cannot stand another 4 years of Frack.

TXUS on October 12, 2011 at 10:34 PM

Obama will not beat Cain, and if Cain picks Rubio for VP, they win at least 30 states and its not close.

alecj on October 12, 2011 at 10:27 PM

LOL…

I am ready to bet anything that Cain will lose in a landslide to Obama.

His inexperience will doom him and don’t expect debate moderators to laugh with him on 9-9-9. They will bring in a panel of so-called economic gurus to tear him apart in the details. Foreign policy questions will be posed in a way that will also expose him.

Moreso, some conservatives sincerely believe Cain will win a decent percentage of the black vote from Obama. That is naive thinking.

The blacks who vote Dem do so because they’ve been brought up to hate the GOP – that won’t change with Cain as the nominee. They see the likes of Cain as sellouts.

TheRightMan on October 12, 2011 at 10:35 PM

I’d vote for Romney if I had to, I’d vote for Cain because I want to.

He can beat Obama like a stepchild.

ted c on October 12, 2011 at 10:38 PM

I ate breakfast with Romney. (Well, sorta. I was one table away from him when I ate breakfast before a day at CPAC.) Nice guy, actually. Still way down on my list for nominee, though.

KingGold on October 12, 2011 at 10:38 PM

effluent phoniness I shall not forget.

rrpjr on October 12, 2011 at 10:33 PM

LOL Please tell me that you meant ‘affluent.’

effluent: An outflow from a sewer or sewage system.
A discharge of liquid waste, as from a factory or nuclear plant.

Come to think of it, maybe that wasn’t a typo….

cynccook on October 12, 2011 at 10:39 PM

Conservatives and right-leaning independents are going to show up in droves, not for Romney or whoever it is, but against Obama. As they did in the 2010 mid-terms.

TXUS on October 12, 2011 at 10:34 PM

And that is where you are wrong.

Romney will lose to Obama and it won’t be close.

The GOP won big in the midterms not because people wanted to vote against Pelosi/Obama/Reid per se but because we got good candidates that we could rally to.

Voters wanted to vote for Rubio vs. Crist/Meek, for example. Can you imagine if it had been a hold your nose vote for Crist vs. Meek?

TheRightMan on October 12, 2011 at 10:39 PM

As the debate marches on, large blocs of Democrat voters will stare at themselves in the mirror and ask “Why do I keep voting for these fools?”….and rightfully so. Many of them will be young black males. They’ll ask themselves, am I really better off voting Democratic?… a good number of them will answer with a big fat “no”.

ted c on October 12, 2011 at 10:40 PM

TheRightMan on October 12, 2011 at 10:35 PM

Yep. Exactly what I have been too lazy to try to articulate.

cynccook on October 12, 2011 at 10:40 PM

Romney is ahead in Iowa and NH.

It’s over after that.

faraway on October 12, 2011 at 10:41 PM

I ate breakfast with Romney. (Well, sorta. I was one table away from him when I ate breakfast before a day at CPAC.) Nice guy, actually. Still way down on my list for nominee, though.

KingGold on October 12, 2011 at 10:38 PM

Yes, I served Al Gore BBQ in 1987 in Lubbock, Texas. This was when he was not a bloated, pale loser. He came across as a very nice person. Then, the years piled up and his chakras demanded relieving.

carbon_footprint on October 12, 2011 at 10:41 PM

But who does the political elite ruling class RINOs want us to vote for…?

THAT is the most important after all.

/

Seven Percent Solution on October 12, 2011 at 10:43 PM

carbon_footprint on October 12, 2011 at 10:41 PM

Everyone use to be a Democrat in the South. It was almost a requirement.

Punchenko on October 12, 2011 at 10:44 PM

Everyone use to be a Democrat in the South. It was almost a requirement.

Punchenko on October 12, 2011 at 10:44 PM

True, and very true in Texas. The democratic party has evolved into the socialistic, liberal segment that it is today.

carbon_footprint on October 12, 2011 at 10:45 PM

Romney is ahead in Iowa and NH.

It’s over after that.

faraway on October 12, 2011 at 10:41 PM

Don’t worry — Herman will take NH. Everyone in that Dartmouth auditorium raised their hands in jubilation when Santorum asked if they would like to pay Herman’s national sales tax.

Punchenko on October 12, 2011 at 10:46 PM

It’s over after that.

faraway on October 12, 2011 at 10:41 PM

Nothing is over…!

/

Seven Percent Solution on October 12, 2011 at 10:47 PM

TheRightMan on October 12, 2011 at 10:39 PM

Sorry to disagree. Every one of those candidates you mentioned and the hundreds of others in the US senate and congressional races around the country and in the state races for governor, senate, and house ran against Obama and Washington. And, yes, many of them were good candidates, too, but it was an anti-Obama, anti-Washington election, as will be the one in 2012.

TXUS on October 12, 2011 at 10:48 PM

Romney is ahead in Iowa and NH.

It’s over after that.

faraway on October 12, 2011 at 10:41 PM

Herman will take Iowa too. He will serenade them with gospel songs when he’s not screaming 999 at them or fumbling through a question on US foreign policy.

(Perrygingrichnista ’12)

Punchenko on October 12, 2011 at 10:49 PM

TXUS on October 12, 2011 at 10:48 PM

If Obama is matched up with an inexperienced candidate, and things get hairy with Iran, he will squeak out a second term.

Punchenko on October 12, 2011 at 10:53 PM

I can’t believe that Cain is our frontrunner now. The guy is clueless on foreign policy and his ONLY plan is ridiculous. 9-9-9 is like handing Obama a bottle of champagne and a party hat and telling him not to bother with campaigning. Every day there would be commercials saying how billionaires would save millions and how the poor would be unable to feed their family. It would be a disaster.

thphilli on October 12, 2011 at 10:56 PM

If Obama is matched up with an inexperienced candidate, and things get hairy with Iran, he will squeak out a second term.

Punchenko on October 12, 2011 at 10:53 PM

Excuse me, who on this earth could be more inexperienced besides Obama? Lady GaGa and Madonna and Justin Bieber are disqualified from your answer here.

TXUS on October 12, 2011 at 10:57 PM

Perrygingrichnista ’12)

Punchenko on October 12, 2011 at 10:49 PM

haha, I’m a PawDanielsPalinCainChristieRomneySupercalifraginista

faraway on October 12, 2011 at 11:01 PM

TXUS on October 12, 2011 at 10:57 PM

Obama has done fairly well with foreign policy in his term. Putting someone like Cain up against him would be unwise and would result in a second Obama term. You can’t have a guy whose sole answer to an Iran problem is to step up missile defense arguing against the guy who singlehandedly caught and executed Obama with his bare hands and think you are gonna win.

thphilli on October 12, 2011 at 11:01 PM

thphilli on October 12, 2011 at 10:56 PM

Sign of the Apocalypse. I agree with you.

faraway on October 12, 2011 at 11:02 PM

I think Mitt’s cautiousness is keeping his favorable rating high. He doesn’t play too risky and doesn’t stick his neck out too much. I could be wrong…

ted c on October 12, 2011 at 9:50 PM

I’ve seen turles more outgoing and decisive..

katy the mean old lady on October 12, 2011 at 11:03 PM

“Reluctant”? That’s the understatement of the century. ABR.

besser tot als rot on October 12, 2011 at 11:05 PM

faraway on October 12, 2011 at 11:02 PM

Haha. I just figure we have been dealt a pretty crap hand this year, so the least we could do is at least try and win with it. Doesn’t have to be pretty, but damn lets at least select a nominee with a chance of winning. Its gotta be Romney or Newt, unless some lunatic decides to jump in the race in the next week or so. I can’t see any other candidate who could debate Obama and win. Newt would be a risky bet with his background, but he is like God Mode at explaining common sense ideas and calling out BS. Also, he seems to be the only “thinker” we have running right now.

thphilli on October 12, 2011 at 11:08 PM

He doesn’t play too risky and doesn’t stick his neck out too much. I could be wrong…

ted c on October 12, 2011 at 9:50 PM

He’s balls to the wall on protecting the status quo on entitlements, especially SS – if thats what you mean by not playing it risky.

besser tot als rot on October 12, 2011 at 11:09 PM

Oh, and his nan-nan-nan plan introduces a sales tax, which we’ve never heard of, or something.

John the Libertarian on October 12, 2011 at 9:41 PM

We’ve heard of it, but that still doesn’t make it a good idea. I like Cain a lot, but that plan is bad specifically because it introduces a national sales tax without repealing the income tax. If it was the 9-0-18 plan, I’d be all over it. You simply can not ensure that the new sales tax will remain at or below any particular rate, which is why it must be introduced only as a replacement for the payroll tax.

holygoat on October 12, 2011 at 11:11 PM

I thought his campaign was over when he allegedly threw the race card on Perry.

KingGold on October 12, 2011 at 9:40 PM

He did throw it, but apparently a lot of people are A-OK with that.

capitalist piglet on October 12, 2011 at 11:13 PM

capitalist piglet on October 12, 2011 at 11:13 PM

He didn’t really throw it. He kind of sat down, gently eased it out of his pocket placing it on the chair next to him, and then got up and left.

thphilli on October 12, 2011 at 11:16 PM

Obama will not beat Cain, and if Cain picks Rubio for VP, they win at least 30 states and its not close.

alecj on October 12, 2011 at 10:27 PM

That would be a pretty ironic ticket, considering that Rubio once sponsored a bill that would have made illegal immigrants eligible for in-state tuition rates – the very same issue that Cain says makes Perry unacceptable as a running mate.

The author of RomneyCare, he’s just fine with. In fact, he endorsed Romney in 2008.

People, please – look closely.

capitalist piglet on October 12, 2011 at 11:16 PM

He didn’t really throw it. He kind of sat down, gently eased it out of his pocket placing it on the chair next to him, and then got up and left.

thphilli on October 12, 2011 at 11:16 PM

And I’ll never vote for him because of it. Ever. He doesn’t have the character to be president (and that’s not the only reason I oppose him).

capitalist piglet on October 12, 2011 at 11:20 PM

How do people think that Cain beats Obama? Like, what is the strategy? His 9-9-9 plan will turn off conservatives once they realize what it is and what it will eventually morph into. His 9-9-9 plan will MORTIFY liberals once they realize he is imposing a 9% tax on poor people via the sales tax while reducing taxes on the wealthy, and the media will batter him to hell with this point for 9 months. He has no foreign policy experience, and it shows. He is a great speaker I guess, which will count for something. But seriously, how does Cain win?

thphilli on October 12, 2011 at 11:22 PM

Everyone use to be a Democrat in the South. It was almost a requirement.

Punchenko on October 12, 2011 at 10:44 PM

Not everyone had to be campaign chair for Al Gore the charlatan.

That little Perry stunt nearly cost us the Supreme Court for an entire generation, along with the right to bear arms, freedom of association, and a host of other rights.

scotash on October 12, 2011 at 11:25 PM

On facebook.. Romney has over 1 million fans, 34k are talking about him. Perry has 160+fans and 7+ are talking about him. Cain has about the same as Perry (his page I watch and he has added about 10K since last week) and 74K are talking about him..

kringeesmom on October 12, 2011 at 11:27 PM

Tonight, in reference to the fact that people who listen to talk radio really do not like Romney, Bill O’Reilly said, “That really isn’t a big portion of the voting population.” (paraphrase)

I object to that. There are many of us who listen to talk radio..and our voting mass is huge…and we will never vote for Romney in the GOP election. NEVER.

balkanmom on October 12, 2011 at 11:31 PM

scotash on October 12, 2011 at 11:25 PM

Um, what? Perry supported Gore in ’88 and Gore did not win the Dem’s nomination that year, Dukakis did.

Gore was much saner in ’88 (he was even still pro-life). Right after that, though, Perry switched parties.

-Aslan’s Girl

Aslans Girl on October 12, 2011 at 11:31 PM

Obama has done fairly well with foreign policy in his term. Putting someone like Cain up against him would be unwise and would result in a second Obama term. You can’t have a guy whose sole answer to an Iran problem is to step up missile defense arguing against the guy who singlehandedly caught and executed Obama with his bare hands and think you are gonna win.

thphilli on October 12, 2011 at 11:01 PM

First, this election is not going to be about foreign policy or the offing of bin Laden or the others. And to suggest that Obama “has done fairly well with foreign policy in his term” is laughable. He has gone all over the world to apologize for this great nation, starting with his infamous Cairo speech in 2009. He even wanted to apologize to the Japanese for our dropping the big ones on Hiroshima and Nagasaki, but thankfully they stopped him from that. He has done everything he could do to insult our allies, from sending back the Churchill bust to England, to suggesting that we go back to the pre-1967 boundaries in Israel and treating Netanyahu as a step-child, not to mention what he has done to allow Iran to continue to develop nuclear weapons and deliverability options. If you think that’s good foreign policy, go for it, and just stay home come 2012, knowing that there’s no one on our team that could better Obama in the area of foreign affairs.

TXUS on October 12, 2011 at 11:33 PM

Aslans Girl on October 12, 2011 at 11:31 PM

We would have a 5 to 4 liberal majority on the Supreme Court (notice how Clinton’s Supreme Court nominations have all voted, and he is considered a moderate Democrat like Gore was)

Had Gore won in 1988, Bush 41 could have lost, and with it, the Supreme Court would have swung Democrat.

This shows Perry’s judgement is sorely lacking.

scotash on October 12, 2011 at 11:36 PM

scotash on October 12, 2011 at 11:36 PM

Well, you’re assuming Gore would have gotten 2 terms and neglecting to take into account the backlash he would have received after nominating pro-choice justices when running on a pro-life platform. Not to mention the Bush recession, which would have absolutely taken place under Gore who also would have raised new taxes.

Daemonocracy on October 12, 2011 at 11:49 PM

Keep all your poll statistics. I saw Herman Cain in Wisconsin two years ago and decided to vote for him for President. This guy is the real first American Black President. Cain is able.

psychocyber on October 12, 2011 at 11:51 PM

I love Herman Cain but I am not so sure he can beat Obama. I think Romney is an easy win over Obama. What should I do?

Dennis D on October 12, 2011 at 11:58 PM

I love Herman Cain but I am not so sure he can beat Obama. I think Romney is an easy win over Obama. What should I do?

Dennis D on October 12, 2011 at 11:58 PM

have faith DD. Cain could fold obama like a pizza box. All real Americans love pizza….and many of them need a job so they could buy some. Cain can do that. He has a light hearted, genuine, affable personality that faaaarr transcends the current raincloud occupant who couldn’t find it within himself to honestly smile at a soldier, salute the flag, or enjoy walking the halls that Adams, Lincoln, Grant once walked. Nah…it’s all too tough for him. Off by 4pm, and the benefits are nice…/

ted c on October 13, 2011 at 12:01 AM

I love Herman Cain but I am not so sure he can beat Obama. I think Romney is an easy win over Obama. What should I do?

Dennis D on October 12, 2011 at 11:58 PM

Romney makes me wretch, but Cain still needs more time to be vetted. Good thing for you that you don’t have to decide right away.

Unless you live in New Hampshire.

Maybe Iowa and Nevada too.

Perhaps South Carolina.

Daemonocracy on October 13, 2011 at 12:01 AM

Well, look at Perry’s numbers, and recall where they were 4-8 weeks ago. Things can change quickly. People are starting to look at “999″ with – gasp! – pocket calculators and see it’s a joke. Cain’s propensity to commit howling gaffes – the Palestinian “right of return,” the zoning prohibition of mosques, appointing no muslims, and refusing to back Perry based on a rock outside property his dad rented and did not own, but painted over nearly 30 years ago anyway – should be a cause for concern.

All were unforced errors, opinions he volunteered when a wise man would at least have held his tongue and said he lacked sufficient information.

Adjoran on October 13, 2011 at 12:10 AM

People are starting to look at “999″ with – gasp! – pocket calculators and see it’s a joke. Cain’s propensity to commit howling gaffes – the Palestinian “right of return,” the zoning prohibition of mosques, appointing no muslims, and refusing to back Perry based on a rock outside property his dad rented and did not own, but painted over nearly 30 years ago anyway – should be a cause for concern.

THIS. Why aren’t people looking at this? (There was even one in there I wasn’t aware of – zoning prohibition of mosques? I have to look that one up. And have you heard him talk about building a “Great Wall of China” on the border? He’s kidding, right? Can’t quite be sure.)

capitalist piglet on October 13, 2011 at 12:15 AM

That little Perry stunt nearly cost us the Supreme Court for an entire generation, along with the right to bear arms, freedom of association, and a host of other rights.

scotash on October 12, 2011 at 11:25 PM

LMAO – how far are you going to go back, and how much is going to be HIS FAULT?

I’ve seen some nutty ones around here, but this…oy.

capitalist piglet on October 13, 2011 at 12:18 AM

LMAO – how far are you going to go back, and how much is going to be HIS FAULT?

capitalist piglet on October 13, 2011 at 12:18 AM

How about Perry’s support for amnesty in 2001 and in 2006 during the Bush amnesty push? Does that count or are we only allowed to consider the last two months?

sharrukin on October 13, 2011 at 12:20 AM

You can’t have a guy whose sole answer to an Iran problem is to step up missile defense arguing against the guy who singlehandedly caught and executed Obama with his bare hands and think you are gonna win.

thphilli on October 12, 2011 at 11:01 PM

Schadenfreude on October 13, 2011 at 12:32 AM

Cain does need to pick up his foreign policy creds but, don’t forget, he’s VERY smart — easily twice as smart as Obama.

If his staff convinces him to study up on his weak spots (how could they not?) he’ll come up to speed quickly.

Sure, the MSM will conspire to submarine him but they’ll do that with Romney too. Don’t assume that Cain is more vulnerable just because Romney has dealt with them longer. The MSM has proved, time and time again, that they are patient enough to wait until October to unleash their best stuff — and I don’t mean THIS October.

Pythagoras on October 13, 2011 at 12:50 AM

How about Perry’s support for amnesty in 2001 and in 2006 during the Bush amnesty push? Does that count or are we only allowed to consider the last two months?

sharrukin on October 13, 2011 at 12:20 AM

Consider he can be a conservative and for amnesty at the same time.

rukiddingme on October 13, 2011 at 12:52 AM

Consider he can be a conservative and for amnesty at the same time.

rukiddingme on October 13, 2011 at 12:52 AM

No, he really can’t.

sharrukin on October 13, 2011 at 12:55 AM

The public dislike of the Occupiers is at 17% Nonsense.

leftnomore on October 13, 2011 at 12:58 AM

No, he really can’t.

sharrukin on October 13, 2011 at 12:55 AM

Ronald Reagan or sharrukin, which one to believe?

rukiddingme on October 13, 2011 at 1:00 AM

Ronald Reagan or sharrukin, which one to believe?

rukiddingme on October 13, 2011 at 1:00 AM

I would go with Ronald Reagan when he said it was the worst mistake he ever made.

sharrukin on October 13, 2011 at 1:01 AM

I hope everyone knows he is getting a bump from Palin supporters.

tdavisjr on October 13, 2011 at 1:19 AM

The fear in the Hot Air trolls is strong tonight..I’m loving it…

lovingmyUSA on October 13, 2011 at 1:20 AM

rukiddingme on October 13, 2011 at 1:20 AM

Try reading this.

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=18399

You recall Meese don’t you? Or were you still voting Democrat at the time?

sharrukin on October 13, 2011 at 1:31 AM

How long until Cain becomes palinized like, well, Gov. Palin?

Once the full assault begins, the recent comments from black celebrities will look like nothing.

novakyu on October 13, 2011 at 2:01 AM

Try reading this.

This is Meese’s words about Reagan, not Reagan’s words.

Yet, interestingly enough, Meese does say this:

He also agreed with the legislation in adjusting the status of immigrants—even if they had entered illegally—who were law-abiding long-term residents, many of whom had children in the United States.

which confirms – in Meese’s words – that Reagan did support amnesty, as Reagan himself had said.

You recall Meese don’t you?
sharrukin on October 13, 2011 at 1:31 AM

Yes, as you recall Reagan’s words.

Or were you still voting Democrat at the time?
sharrukin on October 13, 2011 at 1:31 AM

Heh. Reagan was my first opportunity to vote for POTUS, voted R every time thereafter.

It’s probably a safe bet that you voted for Reagan too, despite the fact he was conservative and for amnesty at the same time.

rukiddingme on October 13, 2011 at 2:04 AM

Allah still does not disappoint in his skewed writing on Romney…
“Mitt, the great RINO flip-flopper”…

You all need to understand that we (HA posters) represent the far conservative side of our party and the majority of conservatives do not have issues with Romney and WILL vote for him in the primaries so Allah and many of you can continue to promote flash polls all day long BUT in the end many people are very comfortable with Romney as a competent, confident, and capable candidate against Obama and our next POTUS. So throw out all your insults and flip-flopping charges you like but the vast majority of people will be voting for Romney as he IS the best candidate out there that HAS a plan that will work.

I really like Cain as well BUT wait till we move off the economy topic and everything other policy topic gets brought up he just does not have the depth on the topics and it will show in these upcoming debates. Can you imagine Perry and Cain facing Obama at this point? Both of those guys would get eaten up in the debate against the smooth-talking, MSM supported, incumbent.

g2825m on October 13, 2011 at 2:41 AM

g2825m on October 13, 2011 at 2:41 AM

LOL, every major poll out there shows a super majority of GOP voters (conservatives) who are desperately searching for an alternative to Romney. Even the WSJ mocked his tax plan as timid and vague.

Conservatives will support him in the general, but they do not want this man in the primary and Hot Air represents the majority of Conservatives and Republicans on this.

Daemonocracy on October 13, 2011 at 3:00 AM

Daemonocracy on October 13, 2011 at 3:00 AM

I do not concur and you will see in the end…MOST people are fine with Romney.

I am a strong conservative and it drives me crazy to see many of the misrepresentations of Romney out there (and other candidates to be honest) that candidates and their supporters are engaged in. I understand though and so does Romney. This is called politics for a reason and why many will falter here in the next few weeks…

g2825m on October 13, 2011 at 3:05 AM

Romney is this decade’s Bob Dole!!! …who was another candidate nominated simply because the inside-the-beltway crowd decided it was “his turn.”

Let’s NOT repeat that mistake!!!

We need a real president with real executive experience and demonstrated turnaround ability: someone who has real accomplishments under his belt. Someone willing to walk in and clear the deck of the frauds and phonies who infest our government, and someone willing to repeal all Executive Orders put in place since 2008 on DAY ONE!! And someone who will sign the Repeal of Obamacare and bills to put the EPA under TIGHT adult supervision, to make high-impact regulations from any government agency ineffective until reviewed by Congress, bills to reclaim all unspent TARP funds and bailout money, and measures to require public posting of all legislation at least 3 days in advance for every 100 pages of the bill with a minimum of 3 days in advance (i.e.: a 1000 page bill would have to be posted for at least 30 days in advance of any vote).

landlines on October 13, 2011 at 3:13 AM

People should take a look at Cain’s 999 plan on his web site.

It completely eliminates payroll and capital gains taxes.

Figure payroll taxes are ~7.5% off the top, plus the employer contribution of ~7.5%. But the employer contribution is reflected in their costs to employ you. If they don’t have to pay it to the government, they will end up paying it to employees (as market forces will dictate).

The real beauty is the simplicity. There is nowhere to hide stealth taxes or tax shelters.

Consider it from this first-principles angle: If you tax something you get less of it.

If you tax income you have a disincentive to earn income. The income avoided is just the profit on the gross economic activity you would have generated. (I.e., ~10 fold multiplier). Reduce income tax –> generate more economic activity (i.e., jobs).

Now look at the sales tax. Introduce a disincentive to spend…than means more savings! More capital –> more economic activity. More savings –> more secure futures for all of us.

Molon Labe on October 13, 2011 at 5:07 AM

Romney is this decade’s Bob Dole!!! …who was another candidate nominated simply because the inside-the-beltway crowd decided it was “his turn.”
Let’s NOT repeat that mistake!!!
We need a real president with real executive experience and demonstrated turnaround ability: someone who has real accomplishments under his belt.

Landlines
This is laughable as Romney has MORE real executive experience than any candidate running, more turnaround experience than any candidate, and real accomplishments under his belt than any candidate. I sometimes wonder if OUR side is really paying attention to our candidates actual resumes?
Some are so blinded in their support of their guy/gal they overlook what they lack…

For those that continue to spout the “I do not want the MSM to tell us who to vote for” well, there are many strong conservatives who have voted since the days of Reagan and before that who are strong conservatives AND they like Romney.

One other point on the MA Healthcare that I think many people miss and Romney made a great point in the debate that I believe several people missed, like Allah, that MA Healthcare was targeting the 8% in the state that did not have healthcare NOT the 92%! That is the big difference as MA residents STILL keep their PRIVATE insurance as opposed to Obamacare where it MAKES all people pay for the mandate and targets 100% of the citizens without bipartisan consent. MA Healthcare was passed with what limited conservatives and Democrats in the State. Those are the differences I see. Targeted 8% versus 100%.

Bottom line: I will vote for ANY of our candidates though to get Obama out of office.

g2825m on October 13, 2011 at 5:34 AM

g2825m on October 13, 2011 at 5:34 AM

Time is on Romney’s side. Cain is on the rise like Perry was last month. Cain is a weaker option than Perry was. Both as a candidate who lacks experience and on policy.

Perry’s policy so far is little more than drill, drill, drill. Cain’s is 9-9-9. Neither are panaceas and in fact 9-9-9 is a non-non-non starter. People will come to realize that in droves soon enough. That’s the entire premise of Cain’s campaign and when it goes, he goes.

Charles K had it right on O’Reilly last night. If Mitt wins Iowa, where he is leading and probably will in Dec for the cauci, it’s all over.

MJBrutus on October 13, 2011 at 6:22 AM

The time has come for a president who says “axe”. But what this shows is, given the opportunity to support someone who is truly an outsider — not of the political rent-seeking culture — right-thinking American voters will line up. Cain is a throwback to what the American system was supposed to have been. He has a life outside politics and it’s a successful one. Hidden in there somewhere too may be the unconscious desire to show the Left that conservatives have no problem with a black president, but we’re not going to swoon over the first half of one to come along. Cain would be like the first-black-president-that-should have been. He gets extra points from me for being the the anti-Romney. He doesn’t get the nomination, he’s not going to spend the next four years looking at 2016. He’s at least assured himself a VP consideration. Imagine him debating with Gaffemaster Joe. I would actually watch that debate.

curved space on October 13, 2011 at 7:03 AM

If you want to win no matter who is in the POTUS position, then you need to start working on Operation Counterweight. This is important in Swing States.

Looking for a ‘White Knight’ to pull things out has caused no end of trouble in the 20th century as what you get, without fail, is far worse than the conditions that led to the grasping at straws for such a saviour. Even if you LIKE a candidate, recognize that the power of funding and restraining the federal government doesn’t begin with the POTUS but this little body known as CONGRESS. If you want a smaller, leaner, and cut down federal government then the POTUS can only play to the tune Congress calls. Change the tune and soon you will get a different director. Put your energy to get this Nation back on track to good use: start local and aim National.

I’m going to enjoy anti-incumbent voting in NoVA at the State level and that, along with 2010 and 2009, send a message out there. And since my local incumbent is a dipstick D, it will be especially sweet. Fun will be had at the expense of the political class.

Oh, and make sure you got enough food, guns and ammo.

Just to be safe.

ajacksonian on October 13, 2011 at 7:18 AM

This is laughable as Romney has MORE real executive experience than any candidate running, more turnaround experience than any candidate, and real accomplishments under his belt than any candidate. I sometimes wonder if OUR side is really paying attention to our candidates actual resumes?…

g2825m on October 13, 2011 at 5:34 AM

You don’t see the irony of your post? The fact that you don’t recognize Cain’s accomplishment, which eclipses Romney’s?
Let me explain….
Romney job was to take over companies, and either turn them around, or dissolve them, he dissolve and fired more people than hired, read some of the devastating decisions he had to make to ensure that he became a multi-millionaire…he wasn’t a “self-made” man, he came from one of the most powerful political family in America, and given the finest education. It’s a farce to say he “started at the bottom”, there is no bottom when your father is a political force (ask Chelsea, Bush, Gore, etc.)
Cain worked through school, he paid his way through school, than he worked his way up the executive ladder. He is the American dream, and the model for hard work, and independence….Romney is the model for having been born into a privileged family.
Romney is smart, many of his fathers Cronies (like Bechtel) he carried with him, “consulted” for them, and gave them bids in Mass. Accepting Romney, and you are choosing another elite, political insider, who won’t want to step on any of the toes on the other side of the aisle…as he had shown in Mass…capitulation is his way of negotiation.
I’ll take a “rough around the edges” fighter, who isn’t tied to the Eastern elites…Romney is the same as any other GOP pick in the last 50 years, born and bred to be a politician…after 50 years of failed policy, you would think someone would want to try something different.

right2bright on October 13, 2011 at 7:20 AM

We are driving them absolutely effing crazy.

It’s a beautiful thing.

Mr. Grump on October 13, 2011 at 7:25 AM

One other point on the MA Healthcare that I think many people miss and Romney made a great point in the debate that I believe several people missed, like Allah, that MA Healthcare was targeting the 8% in the state that did not have healthcare NOT the 92%!

g2825m on October 13, 2011 at 5:34 AM

And that is why Romney can’t debate it with Obama…Obama simply says “Mitt, you only had to worry about 8%, a few thousand people, as President I had to worry about 160 million people…you had the advantage of a democrat legislation that worked with you to get it passed, I had to fight your party, the Republican’s, to get mine passed. That is why I used what the democrats in Mass created as a base for my HealthCare, I took what you tried to create and made it work for a nation, not just a few people”
Romney would stumble and retort…Obama would calmly state: “Mitt, we have a National Health Care plan based on what you created, if you want to go into the corner and argue with yourself, go ahead”
…and the crown erupts with laughter at how foolish Romney was made to look…end of debate, end of Romney…
He can’t debate ObamaCare…and he won’t have the power to repeal it, it knows that, he was telling one of his fibs…he can’t repeal it and he won’t…

right2bright on October 13, 2011 at 7:30 AM

How long until Cain becomes palinized like, well, Gov. Palin?

Once the full assault begins, the recent comments from black celebrities will look like nothing.

novakyu on October 13, 2011 at 2:01 AM

And what is Cain doing? Going right into the lion’s den and taking them on…he knows he can win them over, and they don’t get it…every time he is on MSNBC, his numbers increase.
He is winning over the independents, and many democrats…

right2bright on October 13, 2011 at 7:33 AM

Yes, Cain’s message is on the ascent. But Cain’s conservative critics haven’t even begun to attack, just warming up and testing the waters, afraid of “offending” (except the lady-mother Bachmann pitting IRS v. Federal Reserve work history).

Cain has to implode somehow, possibly by showing that he has less of a grasp on the issues than Perry (which wouldn’t be easy hard at this point), and then Perry would have to convince wary Republicans that Romney’s health-care heresy is so grave

1. Greenspan was the best ever Fed Chairman because he hired me.

2. What? Freddy/Fanny were financially riddled in fraud? No idea!

3. Rush Limbaugh counter effect vs. kickback Christie endorsement for the candidate’s campaign based on Romney’s famous last words. “Promise them anything, just get their votes!”

The reason is simple: Romney is not a conservative. He’s not, folks. You can argue with me all day long on that, but he isn’t. What he has going for him is that he’s not Obama and that he is doing incredibly well in the debates because he’s done it a long time. … Now, we’re told that governors are better than legislators when looking for presidents for a host of reasons. … Most Republican governors are not having to fall back on the federalism argument to justify what they did. “Well, it’s states’ rights. You know, we’re laboratories. We can do whatever we want to do. I wouldn’t do it, of course, at the federal level! I wouldn’t do it. But, of course, the governors we gotta experiment with things,” and the reason that they’re not falling back on federalism is because, as governors, they didn’t make terrible policy decisions that they now have to justify. So if we are going to look at a governor’s record, what exactly do we find? There’s manmade global warming, and Romney has indicated that he believes in it and he has supported laws in Massachusetts built on it. The EPA, the Environmental Protection Agency, in the federal government is out of control. The Romneycare health care bill has individual mandates, and they’re wrong. Individual mandates are wrong whether they’re imposed by a governor or a president. “Yeah, but that was as governor, Rush. It’s a liberal state. He had to do things to get elected.” Um, there’s gonna be a lot of liberal pressure on whoever our president is: Media, Democrat members of Congress that the media’s gonna fawn all over. Every night you’ll have Harry Reid and Pelosi on camera commenting on what the new conservative president’s doing. There’s gonna be all kinds of liberal pressure on whoever our next president is who’s a Republican conservative.

Hence, Christie’s endorsement proves what Christie endorses: liberalism, not conservatism.

Scott Brown’s endorsement wouldn’t make Romney any more a conservative, either.

PPP poll reflects the pollster’s preconception. The lead in to the question, the wording of the question, the limited responses provided…PPP poll “findings” facilitate the most liberal candidate Romney on the GOP ticket. It feels so real: NOT.

maverick muse on October 13, 2011 at 7:39 AM

right2bright on October 13, 2011 at 7:33 AM

Winning respect for his ability to connect on topic, especially for bringing the black vote back to the GOP where MLKjr had it, YES. But not for a dishonest “offended” bluff, nor for admitted ignorance regarding FEDERAL FINANCE FRAUD given that federal finance “expertise” with numbers is Cain’s 9-9-9 very basis. Sure, the numbers don’t lie UNLESS YOUR FORMULA OMITTED RELEVANT DATA.

It’s troubling that HotAir purports the PPP supposedly to be a resource reflecting whom/what the Tea Party movement supports. Not surprisingly, herein, allahpundit uses it as such a resource. tralala

The Tea Party Agenda is for SMALLER FEDERAL GOVERNANCE and lower taxes. Cain attacks that agenda. Cain’s platform is the financial support of the massive federal government with all its heinously obtuse bureaucracies intact via a NEW FEDERAL SALES TAX.

maverick muse on October 13, 2011 at 7:53 AM

right2bright on October 13, 2011 at 7:20 AM

This

gator70 on October 13, 2011 at 8:07 AM

Okay, I’m calling shenanigans!

There is no way you can convince me that conservatives will not vote for Romney if he is the nominee knowing full well what the alternative means. Especially when all of you have done nothing but complain about how bad a president he’s been for the last three years. So enough with the sabre rattling. It’s all sound and fury signifying nothing.

Pcoop on October 13, 2011 at 8:17 AM

BTW, I’m a full blown Cain supporter, but I’m also a realist. Any one of the GOP candidates would be a better president than Slappy McWondernutts. That even includes Romney.

Pcoop on October 13, 2011 at 8:22 AM

So enough with the sabre rattling. It’s all sound and fury signifying nothing.

Pcoop on October 13, 2011 at 8:17 AM

President John McCain wants a word about what it might signify.

sharrukin on October 13, 2011 at 8:25 AM

Conservatives will support him in the general, but they do not want this man in the primary and Hot Air represents the majority of Conservatives and Republicans on this.

Daemonocracy on October 13, 2011 at 3:00 AM

Amen.

balkanmom on October 13, 2011 at 8:33 AM

the public supports his jobs bill, 63/32, supports raising taxes on “the wealthy” and corporations, 64/31, and supports Occupy Wall Street 38/17 — but I want to end on a positive note so I’ll leave you with two encouraging data points

.

So… 2 to 1, the public supports a smaller version of a bill that is in all other ways a duplicate of the 2009 Stimulus bill that, 30 months later, has produced little besides 832B in new debt. These numbers indicate that this bill is backed not just by Democrats, but by independents and some republicans too. This tells me the public either doesn’t have a clue what this bill is about, or is so irretrievably helpless and stupid that the country is screwed regardless.

SAMinVA on October 13, 2011 at 8:45 AM

Amazing given that the whole reason Perry got into the race was because the base wanted a “Not Romney” who … shared their positions on the issues!

No. Conservatives want a candidate who has been a conservative, is a conservative, and will continue to be a conservative. Neither Romney or Perry meet those desires.

dominigan on October 13, 2011 at 9:20 AM

Robamny would be a repeat of 2008. 75% of conservative voters feel the same way. Herman Cain resonates with people all across the country. He’s probably not sitting at a computer reading blogs and liberal slanted ideological political websites.

DanaSmiles on October 13, 2011 at 9:52 AM

Romney Healthcare Adviser: ObamaCare Based On RomneyCare
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/10/12/romney_healthcare_adviser_obamacare_based_off_romneycare.html

Jonathan Gruber, MIT professor: “The truth is that the Affordable Care Act is essentially based on what we accomplished in Massachusetts. It’s the same basic structure applied nationally. John McDonough, one of the other advisers,who work in both Massachusetts and advised the White House said ‘it’s the Massachusetts with three more zeros.’ And that’s basically a good description of what the federal bill did.”

Gruber says Massachusetts received some federal funding for Romney’s healthcare reform, meaning all U.S. taxpayers chipped in to fund RomneyCare.

Dump Romney Now.

rrpjr on October 13, 2011 at 10:19 AM

Look, people want to be inspired. If someone here says, “So and so” inspires me you can almost count on at least one defender of Romney/Perry making reference to a “personality cult”. As if being moved by someone is a bad thing. I get they are defending their boring guy, but they are missing the point.

People want to be inspired, and that is something a leader should be able to do. That feeling of inspiration is what draws in non-party types. You and I will vote for anyone but Obama. The guys at my office will stay home if they are not inspired. Those people are what makes the difference, not you and I. We are the base, they are the margin of victory.

I hope Cain inspires the world. I hope Romney goes away. Cain will bring in the guys from my office, Romney won’t.

Irritable Pundit on October 13, 2011 at 10:24 AM

Irritable Pundit on October 13, 2011 at 10:24 AM

Herman Cain will inspire me to sit at home on election day. There is nothing inspiring about a loud and obnoxious know-nothing whose platform is nothing more than a new national sales tax. We have too many problems right now to hand over the presidency to Celebrity Apprentice. I hate Mitt Romney, but at least I can sleep at night knowing that someone who is calm, cool, collected, and sharp has his finger on the button.

Punchenko on October 13, 2011 at 10:34 AM

Not everyone had to be campaign chair for Al Gore the charlatan.

scotash on October 12, 2011 at 11:25 PM

You’re silly and the reason why we will have Romney come November. You want to make an issue out of Perry helping out a man who never became President when everybody and their dog was a Democrat in the South. I bet you are also a Cain supporter salivating at his new plan to place a new federal tax on our backs, aren’t you? If anyone is helping lose the Supreme Court for a generation it is you, Scotash.

Punchenko on October 13, 2011 at 10:45 AM

I hate Mitt Romney, but at least I can sleep at night knowing that someone who is calm, cool, collected, and sharp has his finger on the button.

No he’s not, Punchenko. Listen to the way he answers questions. He’s near hysterical, bordering on hebephrenia. He talks so fast that his voice goes up and he loses his composure when confronted, particularly with that hot-button issue of Romneycare. Stick with Newt…he blathers but he’s thought through most issues and would be able to justify his actions.

gracie on October 13, 2011 at 10:50 AM

I hate Mitt Romney, but at least I can sleep at night knowing that someone who is calm, cool, collected, and sharp has his finger on the button.

No he’s not, Punchenko. Listen to the way he answers questions. He’s near hysterical, bordering on hebephrenia. He talks so fast that his voice goes up and he loses his composure when confronted, particularly with that hot-button issue of Romneycare. Stick with Newt…he blathers but he’s thought through most issues and would be able to justify his actions.

I meant this to look like this.

gracie on October 13, 2011 at 10:51 AM

gracie on October 13, 2011 at 10:51 AM

Good observations.

rrpjr on October 13, 2011 at 11:24 AM

http://www.newt.org/contract/legislative-proposals

It’s nearly all the way down the page. A direct link is:
http://www.newt.org/sites/newt.org/files/Courts.pdf
But the whole page about his 10 point legislative plan re: the new Contract with America is worth reading.
Good Solid B-Plus on October 12, 2011 at 9:50 PM

Newt is my man. I’d kill to have him as President. He has been awesome in the debates, keeps the focus on OleStupid, and has the ability to communicate his ideas effectively.

Reading his campaign literature, I can only dream that half of it can be implemented in the future.

preallocated on October 13, 2011 at 11:25 AM

Look, people want to be inspired.
Irritable Pundit on October 13, 2011 at 10:24 AM

It’s not a mere desire anymore. It’s a requirement. This is what has changed, and why Romney is a relic from an era of Republican succession. We are different; Obama has changed us, and so has the taste of what we know is possible — with inspiration and great sacrific. But the spiritually crushing effect of a Romney candidacy is incalculable. It is why he and the establishment are so desperate to lock this down fast.

rrpjr on October 13, 2011 at 11:34 AM

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