Pastor who introduced Perry: As Christians, we have a duty to prefer competent Christian candidates to competent Mormons

posted at 8:18 pm on October 7, 2011 by Allahpundit

Not just competent Mormons, either. Read the full transcript and you’ll see that he extends this principle to all non-Christian candidates, including a hypothetical involving Eric Cantor as the first Jewish president. At one point, before he gets cut off by the interviewer, he makes an approving mention of “Article Six,” which I take it is a reference to the clause in the Constitution banning religious tests for office. He seems to be saying that he doesn’t believe in barring anyone from running because of their faith, merely in … voters holding their faith against them in the booth. But if every American Christian agreed with that, it would operate as de facto nullification of the religious-tests clause. As long as there was a “competent” Christian in the race, any competent non-Christian opponent would be doomed to defeat even if he was more competent on the merits. There’d be no point for us heathens in running.

Anyway, here’s another day spent on the trail where Perry’s not talking about jobs because suddenly he’s too busy handling the crisis du jour, which in this case means reassuring people that he doesn’t agree that Mormonism is a cult. Jeffress, the pastor, went on to say that he assumes Perry doesn’t share his views, and there were reports after today’s event that it was the organizers, not Perry’s team, who chose Jeffress to introduce Perry. Which is true, but Politico finds that the whole truth is slightly more nuanced:

Rick Perry’s campaign signed off on the choice of Texas pastor Robert Jeffress to introduce the governor at the Values Voter Summit, Family Research Council head Tony Perkins told POLITICO.

Perkins, whose group leads the annual social conservative gathering, said that FRC suggested Jeffress to the Perry campaign because he was a supporter of the Republican presidential candidate.

“He was recommended to us because Dr. Jeffress is a supporter,” Perkins said. “We sent it to the campaign, they checked off on it. But it wasn’t somebody that they had sent to us.”…

Perry spokesman Mark Miner confirmed that the campaign “said ok” to the Jeffress introduction, but reiterated that he’d been “recommended” by others.

If it’s any cold comfort to Mitt, there are bigger liabilities one can have as a candidate than Mormonism — athough that may depend in part on one’s party. Do note the following Gallup data from June:

Exit quotation: “I’m not saying that Romney is not a good person, but that he will not be saved.”

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Even in the OT, slaves were to be treated a certain way. Not beaten or abused. They had certain basic rights even if they did have to work hard.

That was a first.

Mommynator on October 8, 2011 at 10:46 AM

You TOO are an idiot… Listen to yourself will you?!

SauerKraut537 on October 8, 2011 at 10:53 AM

Even in the OT, slaves were to be treated a certain way. Not beaten or abused. They had certain basic rights even if they did have to work hard.

That was a first.

Mommynator on October 8, 2011 at 10:46 AM

OH! What about Exodus 21:20-21 which says,

When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property.

REALLY?! I can have slaves, AND I can beat them?! But if they die on the same day I beat him I have to go to jail or something, and if they make it past that first day but still die I’m scot free?

Yeah, you’re an idiot just like Tommyboy…

SauerKraut537 on October 8, 2011 at 10:58 AM

Christians are morally compromised

Seriously, watch that short 5 minute video and then think about it…

SauerKraut537 on October 8, 2011 at 11:01 AM

Exit quotation: “I’m not saying that Romney is not a good person, but that he will not be saved.”

I do not care if my president ends up in Heaven as long as my country doesn’t end up in Hell.

Disturb the Universe on October 8, 2011 at 11:02 AM

The pastor can say what he wants, obviously. It isn’t helpful, however.

The basic question is whether there is the slightest evidence that Mormons in public office are a menace, as Mormons, to limited, constitutional, and federal government. The answer is clearly no. There have been some liberal Mormons, some big-government Republican Mormons (e.g., Romney), and some small-government conservative Mormons.

Mormons operate in the American mainstream, and frankly, they do so more than Marxist community organizers. A certain type of Protestant used to be worried about putting a Catholic in the Oval Office too, but that was equally silly. The problem with JFK was that he was all hat and no cattle. The Soviets had his number after the Bay of Pigs, and so did everyone else in a foreign capital.

J.E. Dyer on October 8, 2011 at 12:22 PM

So many of you calling the Church of LDS a cult. Some even latching on to the use of the article The in their name, which I see as being the article for it being the Church of Latter Day Saints, not stopping at the word “church”.

I am gonna get a real pounding for this, but I will ask anyway: if the LDS religion were a) several hundred years old rather than relatively new, and b) headquartered in a European city rather than (sniff) Utah, would you still be calling it a cult?

friendlygrizzly on October 8, 2011 at 12:53 PM

What do unicorns have to do with the most documented, attested individual in ancient history?

Surely you’re not talking about the Jew. You do realize that there is no evidence that he even existed, right?

Haldol on October 8, 2011 at 12:53 PM

“Well ya know Hamilton was a Jew, ”

No. He was not. His mother was previously married to a Jew. This does not make someone “a Jew”. Neither does financial manipulation. Alexander Fordyce was not a Jew, for example.

Why would they, Phelps is a Democrat.

friendlygrizzly on October 8, 2011 at 12:58 PM

And I completely blew that last one, with a quote left over from another site. My apologies to the moderator and I hope that can be pulled.

My original point was to be that someone said in effect that at least Phelps did’t introduce Perry.

Why would he? Phelps is a Democrat.

friendlygrizzly on October 8, 2011 at 1:00 PM

Mormonism’s first principles are based upon their “priesthood” hierarchy. In a nutshell, until 1978, blacks were denied the priesthood. That hardly explains what all was denied the blacks by Mormon prophets’ “direct revelations from God”. Without the priesthood, blacks were doomed as eternal slaves, denied the right to be married and procreate throughout eternity. THAT was the Mormonism which Mitt Romney proselytized, “spent his own money” to sell the world his mission statement being white supremacy.

I suppose you’re going to explain to me how this works works with the fact that in the early years of the church, there were several black men ordained to the priesthood? Most early members were abolitionist…

There were constraints on extending the priesthood for a while. They were mostly a social product — NOT a direct revelation from God. It was a great relief to move past it.

Meanwhile — how many of your average Christian churches were fully integrated at the time? How many truly are today? We’re required to be — congregations go by geography, period (with some exceptions for language). I’d hazard to say that Mormons are (and have been) among the least racist churches in the world… for a very long time.

For some very interesting quotes (that illustrate the complexity of the question at the time), please have a read at

http://somemormonstuff.blogspot.com/2007/12/was-mormonism-ever-pro-slavery.html

It’s pretty comprehensive. Summary — abolition will break the Union, blacks and whites are different only according to circumstance, and that the counsel of the church to a slaveowner that became part of the church was to free his slaves, educate them, and give them their equal rights.

Read the comments, too.

Prufrock on October 8, 2011 at 1:13 PM

What do unicorns have to do with the most documented, attested individual in ancient history?

Surely you’re not talking about the Jew. You do realize that there is no evidence that he even existed, right?

Haldol on October 8, 2011 at 12:53 PM

Josephus. Try again.

Prufrock on October 8, 2011 at 1:14 PM

Allah,

Doesn’t Article 6 refer to government established tests of religion? Voters are free to bring whatever “prejudices” to the voting booth they please. I’m sure you’re not suggesting that the government get involved in determining the motives behind your vote before deciding if your vote should be counted because it violates Article 6 are you?

gwelf on October 8, 2011 at 2:33 PM

What is a “fundamentalist” Christian as compared with an, I guess, “non-fundamentalist” Christian? I see this term used all the time but I have no idea what objective meaning it is intended to convey.

To most people, “fundamentalist Christians” are Christians who actually believe the tenets of their religion and attempt to convince others to see things their way out of fear for their immortal souls–those jerks. “Non-fundamentalist Christians” are the ones who not only don’t believe in the tenets of their church–but they are for the most part completely ignorant of them, and they go around acting completely contrary to these teachings and join in with the non-believers who become indignant at those who actually believe and hold to those tenets. A lot of people are fine with Christians as long as they don’t really believe in Christianity or the Bible, or even worse–try to talk to others about it. These people want a world full of “lukewarm” believers that tolerate non-believers but are not tolerated by non-believers.

I believe it does. I don’t have chapter and verse in front of me, but I suspect you know the passage I’m referencing. I’ve got a ton of things to do today, so I can’t be buggered to look it up.

Level accusations, when asked for proof, say you can’t be bothered. Took me about 15 seconds to find a verse that you are probably referring to. But obviously it was more important to you that you use those 15 seconds to blather some more.

This thread is so chock full of stupid it causes me to sin.

Polynath on October 8, 2011 at 2:59 PM

To be fair, I should have mentioned that there ARE “fundamentalist Christians” who are pretty ignorant of the teachings of their church–they tend to choose a few hot-button issues to champion, but don’t do a good job because they only know a few Bible verses here and there to back up their claim. But usually when people use the term, they are using it towards somebody who is simply stating Christian doctrine and not trying to modernize it to make it more palatable.

Polynath on October 8, 2011 at 3:03 PM

JellyToast, I read your post carefully. I’ve seen this line of reasoning from Christians before in their effort to whitewash what the Bible clearly says about slavery. It just doesn’t wash.
Slavery Apologetics is the most craven form of sophistry.

Slavery wasn’t “different” back in the bronze age. It was slavery at its most brutal and dehumanizing. No amount of revisionism can change that.

chumpThreads on October 8, 2011 at 9:52 AM

“I’ve read your post carefully”… followed by “I’ve seen this line of reasoning from Christians before in their effort to whitewash what the Bible clearly says about slavery” followed by the words “Slavery Apologetics is the most craven form of sophistry.”

I guess you didn’t read my post carefully. Here.. I’ll post it so you can read it carefully again….

Where in the Bible does it say you can beat your slave to an inch of their life? Where in the Bible does it condone slavery?
First.. here is an excellent segment from an article on the subject with some Bible verses:

The Bible does not specifically condemn the practice of slavery. It gives instructions on how slaves should be treated (Deuteronomy 15:12-15; Ephesians 6:9; Colossians 4:1), but does not outlaw slavery altogether. Many see this as the Bible condoning all forms of slavery. What many fail to understand is that slavery in biblical times was very different from the slavery that was practiced in the past few centuries in many parts of the world. The slavery in the Bible was not based exclusively on race. People were not enslaved because of their nationality or the color of their skin. In Bible times, slavery was more a matter of social status. People sold themselves as slaves when they could not pay their debts or provide for their families. In New Testament times, sometimes doctors, lawyers, and even politicians were slaves of someone else. Some people actually chose to be slaves so as to have all their needs provided for by their masters.

Slavery was different then. No.. Jesus didn’t come into the world to comment on every single social issue of the day.
But.. as we all know.. slavery was different back then. But the Bible condemns stealing. It’s one of the 10 commandments. The slavery of America was nothing like the slavery going on in Rome during the time of Jesus. America went over to Africa.. or had traders that went over to Africa and stole… stole people from their homes and lands and brought them here captive!

So you are wrong… God never sanctioned slavery in America! There was nothing right about slavery ever or anywhere. But slavery does exist and always has and always will… but don’t blame God just because Jesus walked around and didn’t specifically tell all the slave owners he ran into to free their slaves!

I clearly said slavery was wrong! I resent you calling me a slavery apologist!
Slavery apologist definition: apologist
a person who defends, in speech or writing, a faith, doctrine, idea, or action.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/apologist

You did not read my post carefully! I said slavery is wrong! Period! I did say it was different during that time than how it was in America.. and that America’s form of slavery was clearly absolutely wrong! That does not mean I am condoning other forms of slavery! Nor do I believe that God condones slavery! So you did not read my post carefully! I did however read yours!

JellyToast on October 8, 2011 at 3:12 PM

The “religous test clause” only RESTRICTS THE GOVERNMENT’s RULES ON WHO CAN OR CAN NOT RUN.

That point has nothing to do with the citizens who can vote for their prefered candidate even if common religion is the only factor.
The CITIZENS and vote for someone just because they had a mustache like they do if they wanted .

In the cases of Romney and Huntsman , there are plenty of reasons to choose any of the other candidates over them,
There religion doesn’t even need to be mentioned.

LeeSeneca on October 8, 2011 at 3:16 PM

I thought Mormons were Christians.

cheeflo on October 8, 2011 at 3:56 PM

The religious muslims along with my fundamentalist mother in-law’s insistence that all Jews going to hell and that the Holocaust was punishment from G-d for their disbelief are big reasons why I’m returning to Judaism…and yes-I’d vote for an atheist

annoyinglittletwerp on October 8, 2011 at 8:18 AM

Now you’re returning to Judaism? How many switches is this for you now? Perhaps you should consider the Eightfold Path, rather than going around in circles?

DarkCurrent on October 8, 2011 at 4:13 PM

DarkCurrent on October 8, 2011 at 4:13 PM

:)

a capella on October 8, 2011 at 4:32 PM

I thought Mormons were Christians.

cheeflo on October 8, 2011 at 3:56 PM

I’m sure there is a final authority on this. We just can’t seem to locate him/her.
In the meantime, there are many willing to sub.

a capella on October 8, 2011 at 4:35 PM

Just more absurd BS to try to hang on Perry, it seems to have no end. The guy introduced him, so they must agree on everything! Pathetic.

kg598301 on October 8, 2011 at 5:16 PM

I posted this in our local paper just in case someone thinks I stole it from someone else!

Doesn’t it kind of remind you of the question about satan? It gives
perry plausible deniability, but the damage is out there.
The EPA is shutting down power plants (28 giga whatever), prices will skyrocket, people will die;
fast & furious is killing Americans and a couple of hundred Mexicans thanks to this admin letting guns walk across the border (2,000) with our tax money;
solydra was a mess, but”not all companies will succeed” the Pres says, but it’s not his money – 1/2 billion that is;
7 billion was thrown out on Friday to other solar companies or the money would have go back to the gov!

But we are concerned about “how many angels can sit on the head of a pin”.

Bambi on October 8, 2011 at 7:33 PM

I’m not a Christian – but I have noticed that Christian’s have lost a lot of their freedom of speech lately. High School coaches fired for simply bowing their heads and saying nothing before a game … Valedictorians censored for mentioning their faith in their commencement address.

Now … I love Honda motorcycles – but if people who own honda motorcycles were persecuted in this manner – my solution would be to get more honda owners into government (including the judiciary). Hell – I might even say that … in any race with a Honda owner running – I’ll vote for the Honda owner.

So how can I slight a Christian who wants to vote for other Christians?

Hell – it’s a foregone conclusion that Mittens will win the Utah primary – and that’s because he’s Mormon. So it’s okay for Mormons to vote FOR Mittens due to his religion but not okay for Christians to vote against him?

Votes are sacred – they belong to the individual. People can vote anyway they want to vote – and there’s not a damn thing you or I can do about it. That’s democracy.

HondaV65 on October 8, 2011 at 8:15 PM

The Christian voting block is the reason we aren’t the next soviet union

for some reason they have a better understanding of freedom then others and that is why western civilizations after the dark ages were the deal

not surprising that with the loss of Christianity to other ideals the rot is growing

I wouldn’t consider myself Christian but to ignore their importance to the advances we use is foolish

Sonosam on October 8, 2011 at 9:14 PM

honda: you have a wonderful next 4 years as obama destroys this country. I don’t care much who comes through the primaries, I will vote for any of them in the nov election!

Bambi on October 8, 2011 at 9:20 PM

Now you’re returning to Judaism? How many switches is this for you now? Perhaps you should consider the Eightfold Path, rather than going around in circles?

DarkCurrent on October 8, 2011 at 4:13 PM

I wan the community of Christianity with the logic and tradition of Judaism.
I don’t believe Jews go to hell if they don’t believe in Jesus. My family didn’t go to Hell. Period.
If I want to pray to G-d-I’ll pray to G-d. He’ll listen even if I don’t do it in ‘Jesus name’.
I don’t believe in the concept of original sin. A newborn baby is totally innocent at birth. Sin comes from the choices we make in the years that follow. At almost 41 I need to examine what I really believe…and finally come to terms with what I am…and what I am not.
I AM a Jewish woman.

annoyinglittletwerp on October 8, 2011 at 9:44 PM

I thought Mormons were Christians.

cheeflo on October 8, 2011 at 3:56 PM

No, they don’t believe in Jesus’s divinity. They are definitely not Christians. They have a lot of beliefs that are definitely not aligned with Christianity. That being said, I don’t believe that Romney’s faith disqualifies him from being president.

Jeffress is known as a guy who always says what he thinks. He definitely has no blinders on when it comes to Islam. He’s pastor of the huge First Baptist in downtown Dallas, that was led for many years by Rev. W.A. Criswell.

Ward Cleaver on October 8, 2011 at 11:27 PM

Excuse me ward cleaver – Jesus is our Savior (period, exclamation point!) You are welcome to come to any of our meetings at any time without an invitation and get a clue for yourself!
Some of the talks at our latest conference: (and by the way, there is no screaming, no yelling, and we don’t denigrate other churches)
“Followers of Christ” – The first line of the talk: “The Savior’s name is the only name under Heaven by which man can be saved.”

From another talk: Elder Whitney Clayton; “He atoned for our sins, was crucified and was resurrected.”

Elder Dallin Oaks: We should honor His name, keep His commandments, and seek not the things of this world, but seek first to build up the kingdom of God, and to establish His righteousness. What think ye of Christ? (Matthew 22:24)
With those same words I ask my fellow Latter-Day Saints and other Christians what you really believe about Jesus Christ and what you are doing because of that belief?
If you would like to enlighten yourself you can read all of his talk called, ‘We are followers of Jesus Christ’
I would be glad to type the entire talk, but I’m on a teeny tiny computer and if I touch the pad, it screws up all my typing.
Don’t just believe what others tell you – read the instructions from our very leaders.
Yes, we believe the divinity of Christ!

Bambi on October 9, 2011 at 12:29 AM

This has backfired in Perry’s face a lot more than it has hurt Romney. The ones who weren’t going to vote for Romney because he’s a Mormon had long made up their minds. Independents are independents because they are tired of these identity politics cards, and can see through Perry and Jeffress’ douchebaggery.

haner on October 9, 2011 at 1:03 AM

No, they don’t believe in Jesus’s divinity. They are definitely not Christians.

From one of our official church declarations:

Jesus is the Living Christ, the immortal Son of God. He is the great King Immanuel, who stands today on the right hand of His Father. He is the light, the life, and the hope of the world. His way is the path that leads to happiness in this life and eternal life in the world to come. God be thanked for his matchless gift of his divine Son.

So…CAN WE PLEASE MOVE ON? If you have any further doubts, you can check out Mormon.org’s page on Jesus.

They have a lot of beliefs that are definitely not aligned with Christianity.

No. We have a lot of beliefs that are not aligned with your version of Christianity. And I bet you have a lot of beliefs that do not align with my version of Christianity–but if you follow Christ then you are a Christian, period, end of story, goodnight. Mark 9:40–“He who is not against us is for us.” If a person is from America, they are an American. You don’t get to say, “Well, they are from America, but I don’t like the way they think of America, so they are not American.” “Christian” means “to follow Christ.” Whatever denomination you are, you get to say that we are not of that denomination. But you don’t get to decide that we are not followers of Christ. Because you have absolutely no basis for that. Why don’t you say what you mean? “They translate certain parts of the Bible differently than we do.” Not quite as grandiose, is it?

Seriously, I say this as somebody who loves all Christians and probably has a lot of respect for whatever church you belong to–do you not know how silly you sound? “They are not Christian.” “Yes we are, we follow Christ and we think he is divine and we think he is the Son of God, the Only Begotten.” “…They are not Christians.” It’s like a broken record, when anybody can plainly see from going to one of our church websites or (better yet) going to our services–WE ARE CHRISTIANS.

Polynath on October 9, 2011 at 2:58 AM

Polynath on October 9, 2011 at 2:58 AM

+1000

Very true…it is not up to another person to determine that person’s beliefs and testimony of Christ…I believe that is left up to another higher being.

“by their fruits ye shall know them”, I believe is a better way to judge Mormons and whether they are followers of Jesus.

g2825m on October 9, 2011 at 9:46 AM

Thank you Pope Jeffress for defining a Christian. Here I thought that a Baptist allowed any man who cried out “Jesus, save me!” I didn’t realize that he had to pass a theology exam first.

aloysiusmiller on October 9, 2011 at 4:30 PM

Yes, Obama’s a Christian too, but I’d rather see him in office than the likes of Perry or any of the others.

chumpThreads on October 8, 2011 at 9:34 AM

Lol, it’s so cute that you think that.

Good Solid B-Plus on October 9, 2011 at 5:22 PM

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