Oh my: Cain surges to second in Florida as Perry fades to fourth
posted at 7:59 pm on October 3, 2011 by Allahpundit
I know Perry’s not done. I know it, but … sometimes I have to remind myself.
Cain is now running in second place in Florida now that his support surged nearly 19 percentage points after last month’s Republican Party of Florida’s Presidency 5 debate and straw poll, according to a survey of likely Florida voters conducted by Gainesville-based War Room Logistics, which typically polls for Republicans.
Meantime, Perry’s support plummeted nearly 16 percentage points.
Perry had been tied as a Florida frontrunner with Mitt Romney at about 25 percent on Sept. 20, dropped to third/fourth place with 9 percent of the vote where he’s statistically tied with Newt Gingrich (10 percent).
Apart from Romney, who trails Obama by five, everyone else in the field gets crushed by The One head to head. (O leads Perry 53/36.)
Perry’s going to finally get some good buzz later this week when he releases his third-quarter fundraising numbers, which should serve notice that he’s the only “Not Romney” in the field capable of going the distance with Mitt (for the moment). He might get some good news tomorrow too if Christie decides to dive in and provide centrists with an alternative to Romney, which will take a chunk out of Mitt’s Florida lead by the time of the next state poll. And yet … I think Perry’s already lost the mystique that excited grassroots conservatives when he first announced. Everyone knew he was vulnerable on immigration and wasn’t a world-class debater, but he had that gold-plated jobs record and was undefeated after 10 years of Texas political gunfights. I figured he’d be so vastly superior to Romney as a retail politician that even if he took some lumps about the border, he’d mash Mitt up on RomneyCare and flip-flopping and would lead comfortably by now. That is to say, I thought voters would be able to support Perry as Perry and not merely as “Not Romney.” Now I wonder. Rolling out an economic plan and/or a plan on entitlement reform might help restore some luster, but a bit of well-timed wonkery on jobs doesn’t neutralize Romney’s core argument that Perry is unelectable. He’s still got baggage on Social Security — which may help explain his collapse here in Florida — and now he has to deal with that grenade about his family’s hunting grounds that WaPo tossed into the scrum.
As for Cain, NBC wonders: Does he want to be the nominee or does he want to be a star?
One reason why he’s resonating with conservatives is that he’s a non-politician with a business record (which might explain why Cain’s getting a second look but Rick Santorum isn’t). So Cain now has his moment, and guess what: He doesn’t appear to be using it. For starters, with about three months until the Iowa caucuses, he’s going on a book tour for much of October. Second, he’s not scheduled to be back in Iowa until mid-November. And third, his communications director just left his campaign — to work for the re-election of Louisiana’s lieutenant governor (!!!). Those aren’t just signs of someone who’s unlikely to win the GOP nomination; they’re signs of someone who isn’t really trying to win, a la Mike Huckabee in 2007-2008. Cain does, however, meet with Donald Trump today. If you judge Huckabee’s 2008 campaign as a success, then Cain is on a successful path.
He might be stuck contractually, having scheduled the book tour back when he was a five-percent candidate and now forced to ride it out just as he’s become a 20-percenter. But there must be ways around that: E.g., promise the publisher a second book, which is bound to be a bigger seller as he becomes better known, in return for letting him cancel the current tour to hit the trail in Iowa, South Carolina, and Florida. He’s got an outside shot at the first of those three, especially now that Bachmann’s staffers have started to bail on her. If he does well in Iowa, he’d have momentum and a quasi-home-field advantage in South Carolina (he’s from Georgia), and if he did well there, he could capitalize in Florida by reminding voters there that they kickstarted his campaign by giving him a crucial straw-poll win. He’s throwing away a golden chance to be a factor in the race.
Via the Daily Caller, maybe we’ll just have to take the advice of conservative “wise men.” Sigh. Exit question: If Perry continues to struggle in Florida, whether because of Social Security or other reasons, will big-money Republicans pass on him as a lost cause? If he can’t play in a key swing state, there’s no sense getting behind him. Fourth place behind Gingrich, of all people, is simply gruesome for a would-be nominee.









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Nevermind, Herman. Megan McCain says you are not experienced enough.
DrStock on October 3, 2011 at 9:11 PM
You did not just quote “Think Progress”, did you? Oh, yes, you did.
LOL!!!
Voter from WA State on October 3, 2011 at 9:11 PM
You did not just quote “Think Progress”, did you? Oh, yes, you did.
LOL!!!
Voter from WA State on October 3, 2011 at 9:11 PM
It also likes quoting Glen Greenwald.
annoyinglittletwerp on October 3, 2011 at 9:13 PM
Spathi will lie cheat and steal for R.Paul. Scum.
CW on October 3, 2011 at 9:13 PM
Careful, I’d put annoyinglittleyankeetwerp above jenfidel when it comes to things Texas.
Me, and the opt-out being hard was total BS.
cozmo on October 3, 2011 at 9:13 PM
You have a point that the media does not want Perry to be the nominee. Neither does the GOP Establishment.
However, the base does not want Romney to be the nominee this time around. And in the age of the Tea Party, this will trump the Establishment’s preference.
Perry’s campaign is not overly concerned about his debate stumbles because they recognize that just as one debate can “destroy” you, another can make you the “comeback kid”. Moreover, debates on their own do not determine the nominee.
The current rise and fall in the polls are an instantaneous response to the debate performances and media stories.
It’s now “Herb” Cain’s turn to be the golden boy and, as usual, he will also be found to be with warts. He is an unknown quantity and will remain golden until he also gets known.
One way you can predict who is likely to go the distance is to judge each candidate’s pluses and minuses. A lot has been said about Perry’s minuses – not so much his pluses. Romney’s pluses has been hyped by the media but his minuses will also come out during the course of this long primary campaign.
And when the dust settles, I can most certainly tell you that Perry (warts and all) will trounce Romney (warts and all). The rest will not even come close.
TheRightMan on October 3, 2011 at 9:14 PM
If you go to justin.tv that eve and search for “debate” you’ll likely see it streamed there, whatever channel it’s on. Best if you use Firefox browser with AdBlock Plus (both free items).
whatcat on October 3, 2011 at 9:15 PM
There is one that is not televised first and then the CNN one late in October right?
gophergirl on October 3, 2011 at 9:04 PM
gophergirl:)
======================
2012 Primary Debate Schedule
****************************
Here is the most up-to-date and complete schedule we have for the 2011 / 2012 Republican Primary debates.
These debates are between all the Republican candidates. For the schedule of debates between the Republican nominee and President Barack Obama, see the 2012 Presidential Debate schedule page.
http://www.2012presidentialelectionnews.com/2012-debate-schedule/2011-2012-primary-debate-schedule/
canopfor on October 3, 2011 at 9:15 PM
From another thread:
You sum up my feelings.
My personal Opinion: Perry did nothing wrong, he did right in getting rid of the word and Cain said nothing wrong in saying it was insensitive for that word to still be there in the 1980’s. And saying something is “insensitive” is not saying it is racist.
Being from NJ and being 52, I found it jarring to learn today that there ever were places with that word as a name and that they still existed even to this day. That is how sheltered and ignorant I’ve been. I too would find it “insensitive” to say the least to see that anywhere I would visit and would remove it immediately if it were in my power.
Nothing wrong with Cain saying that. He clearly said the first time “sign of insensitivity.” He did not say “racist.” And I don’t for a minute think Cain wasn’t sincere in his comments or using them for political gain. He speaks his mind, right or wrong. Like someone said above, that is refreshing and we have to take the good with the bad with that trait.
The most I would fault Cain for was falling victim to the media’s trap. And it was not much of a stumble.
I don’t think any of us should let the media blow this out of proportion and reflect badly on either candidate.
Cain explained further on Sean’s radio show and spoke very well about this.
Elisa on October 3, 2011 at 9:15 PM
Good grief . . . what rock have you been living under? You need to do more reading and maybe getting out more. LOL!!!
Oh, wait . . . maybe you are getting your information from the Kos Kids or DUmmies.
Voter from WA State on October 3, 2011 at 9:16 PM
From the other thread:
Cain on Sean’s radio show today.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmh-5eKobvk
After the 3 minute mark they discuss the Perry rock situation.
Cain saying it was “insensitive” for that word to be there in the 1980’s.“You would think by the 1980’s that someone would have said, it’s insensitive, let’s take it off.”
Cain also said, “I don’t think that it reflects how Gov Perry feels about Black people in this country.”
Sean: “The word on the rock was painted over and obscured many, many years ago and Perry’s saying in fact his family was involved in getting rid of it. Would that mean something to you if it turns out to be true?”
Cain: “If the Perry family was involved in trying to get rid of it, then I’ll applaud that because that meant that they recognized how insensitive that word was. And so as far as I’m concerned, I’m done with the issue.”
Right after that Cain talks about growing up in the segregated South. I’d heard one of the stories before. Well worth listening to. Inspiring. Funny too.
Cain will be on Sean’s TV show tonight and will be on the View tomorrow (uggh!) The “girls” were talking about the N word and how Barbara couldn’t say it, but Whoopi could. I only saw it because Drudge linked it. I never watch those women, they annoy me.
Elisa on October 3, 2011 at 8:57 PM
Elisa on October 3, 2011 at 9:16 PM
thanks for the linky
cmsinaz on October 3, 2011 at 9:18 PM
It’s fun to insult people who don’t know when they’ve been insulted.
:D
whatcat on October 3, 2011 at 9:18 PM
I just have not seen on piece of the media showing Gov. Perry calling someone racist in the last debate. If you have a link for him saying that some was “racist” (and I mean those very inflammatory words), I would like to see it.
Voter from WA State on October 3, 2011 at 9:18 PM
But he keeps on falling for traps. We can’t afford to have a candidate learn hard lessons as he goes along. Before you know it, he will spend all of his time clarifying and correcting himself. He will be playing defense for the entire campaign and that will inevitably give us 4 more years of PBHO. We can’t take that risk.
MJBrutus on October 3, 2011 at 9:19 PM
Thank you very much
gophergirl on October 3, 2011 at 9:20 PM
So not a single citation to back up your claim. Thats what our justice system is now reduced to? We have seen no hard evidence that the guy has done anything more than speak out in favor of terrorists and terrorism. He may well be the head of Al Qaeda, but for an American citizen there is supposed to be proof. How can you claim to be for the constitution yet gleefully ignore it when its convenient?
thphilli on October 3, 2011 at 9:20 PM
I never watch those women, they annoy me.
Elisa on October 3, 2011 at 8:57 PM
Elisa on October 3, 2011 at 9:16 PM
Hasselbeck earns every dime she gets for doing that show.
predator on October 3, 2011 at 9:20 PM
Well according to him I have done nothing of the sort!
sharrukin on October 3, 2011 at 9:21 PM
He never said it. The racist line that has some people upset is that he was talking about the in-state tuition break and said it shouldn’t matter what your last name is in relation to that.
He never came out and utter “racist”
gophergirl on October 3, 2011 at 9:21 PM
Fixed
gophergirl on October 3, 2011 at 9:23 PM
Hasselback is a crying phony conservative they put on the show so that they could beat her up and make republicans look stupid. She is the most annoying member on the entire show because of her inability to effectively argue a conservative viewpoint. If Barbara Walters had a fair bone in her body she would hire someone like Ann Coulter to do the show, who could actually defend conservatism against the mob of liberals which comprise “the view”.
thphilli on October 3, 2011 at 9:23 PM
canopfor on October 3, 2011 at 9:15 PM
=======================
Thank you very much
gophergirl on October 3, 2011 at 9:20 PM
gophergirl:Anytime:)
canopfor on October 3, 2011 at 9:24 PM
You’ve opted for the
media-selectedmedia-approved candidate, so that much is at least clear.But there is such a thing as calculated risk. For one thing, do you doubt that if Obama debated Cain he’d get spanked like a four-year-old in K-Mart? And he appears to have the best personal story, being that he rose from poverty and survived cancer?
KingGold on October 3, 2011 at 9:24 PM
Fact.
RachDubya on October 3, 2011 at 9:25 PM
thphilli on October 3, 2011 at 9:23 PM
So…you don’t like her? Just tryin’ to understand. I’ve only seen vid clips of the show. You are apparently a fan of the show. Tells me plenty.
predator on October 3, 2011 at 9:29 PM
Sure, those factors and others are very much in Cain’s favor. I don’t think that his strengths are nearly enough to overcome his 2 major weaknesses: inexperience and lack of realism of his policy ideas. I think that he is clueless about how government works and about how to run a disciplined campaign.
MJBrutus on October 3, 2011 at 9:29 PM
Which makes it even funnier!
:D
I expect this from Obama (on himself) in 2008 also went WHOOSH over his noggin:
“You know, he’s new, he doesn’t look like the other presidents on the currency, he’s a got a funny name.”
whatcat on October 3, 2011 at 9:30 PM
That is what I object to . . . calling something “racist” when it is not racist. It reduces what real racism is using. I don’t like it when the left does. I don’t like it when the right does it.
I knew what they were talking about . . . I just wanted them to admit that what they were saying was not really true. He did not call anyone “racist”. I really, really don’t like those kinds of accusations.
Voter from WA State on October 3, 2011 at 9:30 PM
I don’t see the word racist in there! //
Maybe that sort of defense works for Bambi and Thumper, but everyone else knows what it means.
sharrukin on October 3, 2011 at 9:32 PM
Anybody who would spend an hour or two, however long that piece of trash runs, with the likes of Whoopeeee!, Jay Boyhar, Bawbwa Wa-wa, et al. earns their dough, IMO.
predator on October 3, 2011 at 9:32 PM
I just wanted to add this. Time will tell. I don’t think that Cain has the chops to stay strong in the race for long. If I’m right, it will be obvious son enough and that will be that. If he can hang around and be competitive for another month I’ll have to take a fresh look at him.
MJBrutus on October 3, 2011 at 9:34 PM
Amazing, using false, hateful Democrat talking points to slander virtually every one of your potential voters isn’t a winning strategy… Who knew?
RJL on October 3, 2011 at 9:39 PM
As a foreigner, I can’t donate to any campaign, but I can order Herman Cain’s latest book (and just did so!) It’s refreshing to see a successful business man, close to the tea party, with a positive and optimistic message.
He lacks foreign policy experience, but this is a field where even Obama showed a lot of continuity with Bush (Iraq, AfPaq…). And I’m quite sure Cain wouldn’t turn on the allies (Poland, Israel, Taiwan…) like Obama has.
And at 65, Cain seems a much wiser, as he has seen ups and downs, unlike the younger Obama who had a stellar career and thought he is a kind of semi-God (“Harry, I have a gift”, Democratic convention of 2004).
It will be soon time to unite around Cain to prevent Romney from getting the nomination and not split the tea party vote with Perry, Bachman, Paul.
FrenchguyinTaiwan on October 3, 2011 at 9:40 PM
LOL. I’m wondering how Perry will handle the N-rock issue if it comes up in the next debate. If his good ol’ boy handlers don’t keep him on a short leash, I’m thinkin’ it could go something like when Archie Bunker said to Sammy Davis Jr – “I know there was nothing you could do about being born black, but what made you turn Jew?”.
whatcat on October 3, 2011 at 9:43 PM
Well, since he’s vaulted into the quasi-top tier, that means of course that the
parasiteslower-tier contenders Bachmann and Santorum will take potshots at him in the next debate.Let’s see how he handles being cross-examined.
KingGold on October 3, 2011 at 9:43 PM
LOL
Well he’s gonna have to do something like that to top his last debate performance.
sharrukin on October 3, 2011 at 9:46 PM
His campaign staff has experience in local elections and they are making the classic rookie mistake of assuming what works locally will work nationally. Before the next debate, they have 2 choices
1) let Perry be Perry and hope the damage control in the aftermath is managable or 2) Stuff him full of talking points, have him practice parroting them repeatedly, and hope he remembers them (and when to repeat them) during the debate.
whatcat on October 3, 2011 at 9:54 PM
I suspect that he will manage a passable debate performance. I find it hard to believe he will shoot himself in the foot again. He had better get some answers to questions regarding his actual platform… cause they might about stuff like that.
sharrukin on October 3, 2011 at 9:58 PM
Bloomberg TV or BTV is Ch. 207 on my Comcast Extended Basic. It’s really terrible, can’t stand to watch it. That’s where the debate will be. TV Guide doesn’t show it on any other channel.
slickwillie2001 on October 3, 2011 at 10:03 PM
Yeah and when you’re at the bottom in a debate setting already you really can’t sink much lower, so up is the only viable option. I think one danger for Perry is if his campaign mgrs. have him so uptight about not saying anything harmful to his campaign that he will come across as shaky. Something like telling someone not to think of pink alligators, lol – “whatever you do, don’t say this or that, or that, or that!”.
whatcat on October 3, 2011 at 10:05 PM
canopfor on October 3, 2011 at 9:15 PM
===============
thanks for the linky
cmsinaz on October 3, 2011 at 9:18 PM
cmsinaz:–:)
canopfor on October 3, 2011 at 10:36 PM
There’s a lot about him being an American citizenship. Did he go to any American embassy and renounced it , therefore adopting another one? It’s one thing to say he’s born-American citizen. Did he have dual citizenship? Some of this stuff needs to be cleared up by the State Department.
I don’t care if he was born here in the US he had an agenda to kill other Americans. Waterboarding is baaaadddd and per Shep we don’t effing’ torture terrorists./ So it’s an OFC operation to kill or throw him in Cuba and we pay for his stay-then he would go back to killing’ again.
ProudPalinFan on October 3, 2011 at 10:52 PM
With that ABC interview he crossed the line. He was pressing when he didn’t need to press and it left a sour taste in my mouth.
As I said in that thread I will say in this thread, Perry also offended me twice with his comments defending in state tuition, so we’re all even. The GOP field should band together and attack the Washington Post as one because this racist crap needs to stop.
Daemonocracy on October 3, 2011 at 11:05 PM
Who?
Steele hasn’t been right on anything for long time.
-Aslan’s Girl
Aslans Girl on October 3, 2011 at 11:25 PM
Cripes! So you think a rocket scientist who made his bones in the navy and later rose to head the KC Feds has no clue as to how govt is run???? I would think he knows how govt runs from several perspectives and as a result of the conservative views, wants to change it.
We piss and moan about how the govt is run, along comes a guy that wants to change the way govt is run, then moaners like you wail; “but, but, that’s not how govt is run, e1venty1l1l11″.
Gee, you know what that makes Cain? Reaganesque! From voodoo economics to naive about dealing with the Russians and nuke happy, the RINOS came up with every which way to define him as naive and give us Pappy Bush.
Why don’t you just call his ideas “voodoo govt” and be done with it, then you can settle for Mittwit and get more of the status quo. I’m sure your type will come back in 2015/16 pissing and moaning about the status quo and America gets the govt it deserves — because you were afraid of trying radical ideas that could break the way things have always been done.
Besides, Presidents don’t run this country, they lead or fail to lead us. Congress makes the laws and when POTUS can hold a fire to their feet, they tend to play along and get things done — especially when it looks like we can get strong majorities in both houses this time around. If nothing else, we need the most right-thinking conservative into the oval office to leverage this once in a lifetime advantage. We don’t need a stinking milquetoast that will want to reach across to the minority side so that they don’t feel left out.
AH_C on October 3, 2011 at 11:25 PM
I can’t believe Steele is this stupid:
http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2011/10/03/334652/michael-steele-hits-rick-perry-racist-ranch/
It’s never enough for some. Why isn’t it enough that it was painted over? How would anyone know what was beneath the paint if it was beneath the paint? X-ray goggles? Why does the rock have to be thrown into the river? Does he even know how heavy the rock is? Then, he attacks the Republican Party! OMG. Steele was a failure as the RNC head and he’s a failure now more than ever. Whiny and pathetic.
-Aslan’s Girl
Aslans Girl on October 3, 2011 at 11:34 PM
I only reposted Spathi’s link to thinkprogress because it has the actual video of Steele on MSNBC.
-Aslan’s Girl
Aslans Girl on October 3, 2011 at 11:37 PM
Elisa on October 3, 2011 at 9:15 PM
Cain didn’t say that it was insensitive that the word was there in the ’80s; he said that it was insensitive that Perry didn’t remove the name quick enough for Cain’s liking, even though he had no idea how quickly Perry removed the name. Cain attacked Perry, called him “insensitive”, without the facts.
-Aslan’s Girl
Aslans Girl on October 3, 2011 at 11:40 PM
Elisa on October 3, 2011 at 9:16 PM
That’s his walkback today, but it doesn’t match what he said yesterday.
Aslans Girl on October 3, 2011 at 11:41 PM
Haven’t read all the comments, so somebody else may have already commented on this…
Or, you know, he could keep his word, recognizing that there isn’t a caucus in mid-November, make the necessary stops & speeches but hit the campaign trail hard in the weeks just prior to the actual voting…
In other words, demonstrate integrity?
cs89 on October 3, 2011 at 11:52 PM
you know how it is with this ‘instant gratification ‘ crowd. If someone jumps to the top, why, they need to come out my way STAT, so they can kiss my tukus and my baby the traditional way. If he personally campaigns in my hometown, then I might vote for him in three months hence. If they go selling books, then they’re not serious./
AH_C on October 4, 2011 at 12:06 AM
Only Perry fanbois think Cain played the race card. The rest of us can see that the media played the race card.
alwaysfiredup on October 3, 2011 at 8:04 PM
I don’t know why we’d think that. After all Cain was the only one that jumped on the Wash Po smear bandwagon, right? I haven’t heard a word from Bachmann/Santorum/Paul/Huntsman/Newt/. Oh, sometime this afternoon I guess Romney saw it was all clear and came out on Hannity’s radio and said the name of Perry’s ranch was offensive.
It wasn’t Perry’s ranch.
TV/Radio/Video. He got the message out. As far as I can tell, the Wash Po only had the one article and Cain spread the “word”.
bluefox on October 4, 2011 at 12:56 AM
Yeah, but they weren’t, were they?
Dreadnought on October 4, 2011 at 1:40 AM
It’s telling that no one thought Obama was Netanyahu in the analogy. We all just assume.
Ronnie on October 4, 2011 at 4:27 AM
Herman Cain: If the MSM talks s$%t about him, he’s my kind of candidate!!!
Mr. Grump on October 4, 2011 at 7:07 AM
Think I’ll go out and buy a Hank CD just because.
Extrafishy on October 4, 2011 at 7:53 AM
I live in Connecticut, where there is a place called Satan’s Kingdom State Forest, labeled as such by a large wooden sign plainly visible from US Highway 44 between New Hartford and Canton, CT. It baffles me why anyone in State government would give a state forest such a name, which might scare off potential visitors–in a mostly Catholic state, who would deliberately visit the devil’s kingdom?
We probably need to cut Gov. Perry some slack here. He might have bought the property without knowing about the N-word written on the rock, then had it painted over shortly after he discovered it. After all, if this was discovered “during the 1980′s”, it was long before Perry was even elected Lieutenant Governor in 1998, and was elected Governor in 2002, 2006, and 2010, and Texans didn’t seem to worry about it back then.
Perry should probably make some kind of “press release” about the rock to explain when he discovered it, and what he did when he discovered it, then put this issue to bed.
Steve Z on October 4, 2011 at 9:47 AM
WHAT is hyperbolic about his characterization?
‘That’s’ is not explanatory regarding his being for something, then against, his political posturing when the time is right & needed, etc.
That isn’t made up stuff.
And WTF is Rash?
Rush?
Bcs I don’t let Rush dictate who I vote for.
I dictate who I vote for.
Badger40 on October 4, 2011 at 6:19 PM
Nevermind, Herman. Megan McCain says you are not experienced enough.
DrStock on October 3, 2011 at 9:11 PM
WWas she jumping up n down when she said it? because thats the only
time I would pay attention to that brainless twit.
ColdWarrior57 on October 5, 2011 at 12:07 PM
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