Debate candidates, formats and crowd control
posted at 11:25 am on September 23, 2011 by Jazz Shaw
We’ve already had plenty of opportunities to review the performances of the various GOP presidential candidates during last night’s debate in Orlando, with both AP and Ed weighing in on it. For what it’s worth, I didn’t think either of the frontrunners put on a stellar performance, with Perry probably getting the worst of it, but Mitt not doing himself many favors either. Let’s face it, when one of the highlights of the evening is Gary Johnson stealing a joke about dogs pooping on his lawn, we’re probably not seeing the next Gettysburg address unfolding before our eyes.
But it wasn’t so much the answers given by the candidates which caught my attention as the format decided on by Fox, the approach of the moderators and how large of a player the audience at these events has become. First and foremost, I think last night should provide more than adequate evidence that we can do away with this YouTube questioning format. As my friend Doug Mataconis quipped on Twitter, this format “sucked in 2008 and it sucks now.”
It’s a false construct, to begin with. There were tens of thousands of submissions and the moderators simply pick the ones that are closest to the questions they were going to ask anyway, so there’s nothing “spontaneous” or populist about it. The only difference is that the YouTube questioners generally either don’t do as good of a job asking or they include incendiary flares which professional journalists wouldn’t toss in. When the bells and whistles become the show, rather than adding to the important content, it’s time to retool the format.
On an unrelated note, I’m finding it harder and harder to understand why some of the moderators – particularly at Fox, of all places – select and structure some of the questions the way they do. They almost seem to take delight in egging on the audience to deliver sound bites which don’t do much to clarify the positions on the candidates on important topics, but deliver video clips for the Democrats to use next year.
The first example came when both Ron Paul and Newt Gingrich were tossed questions on unemployment insurance. Debating how long extensions should be is one thing, but the questions got shoved into rhetorical overload mode, seeming to dare the candidates to call for the elimination of unemployment insurance. It’s a trap, and of course the audience broke out in a poorly timed round of thunderous applause.
Does anyone honestly think that we’re going to do away entirely with a program designed to temporarily assist workers (who pay into the system, by the way) while they look for a new job after being displaced? Does this sound like a winning message that’s going to get a Republican elected?
That was followed up later by a question on Don’t Ask Don’t Tell (DADT) which was filmed by a gay soldier serving in Iraq and given to Rick Santorum. Unfortunately, a couple of people in the audience actually began booing while the soldier’s clip was playing. Among the many results was more GOP infighting as GOPROUD almost immediately demanded an apology from Santorum. Even if it was only one or two yahoos who were hushed by other audience members, the damage was already done.
I don’t know a single person who honestly thinks that next November’s election is going to be determined by DADT, and even if you want to debate it as part of the agenda, there was no reason to pitch it in that fashion. When something like that happens, the response of the candidate -and even the subject itself – ceases to be the story and the media picks up on “the bloodthirsty Republican audience” as the story du jour. It happened last time with the death penalty and health insurance questions, and sure enough, when I began flipping through the morning news shows today, those two items were right up near the top of the list of what they were talking about.
Hey, look! Republicans are booing an active duty soldier and cheering for the elimination of unemployment insurance!
You don’t need to be Karl Rove to figure out this might not be a winning visual image.
There were a lot more negative responses to last night’s debate than positive ones from what I’ve seen, and it’s not because of a lack of good candidates. It’s the dog and pony show, sensationalized carnival atmosphere that the debates have taken on. It’s not helping anyone except DNC campaign operatives who splice up the clips to use for next year’s television ads. If the audience can’t restrain themselves to polite applause for answers they approve of, maybe it’s time to stop having live studio participation in these things. And it’s definitely time for a lot less gimmicks and a return to old fashioned, serious journalistic moderation of the events. This is a debate to determine the next GOP candidate to be leader of the free world, not the market launch of the next iPhone app.
Breaking on Hot Air


It’s come to this: Venezuela approves funds to relieve the toilet-paper shortage

Video: Dem Congressman rips IRS for abuses, threatens bringing in special prosecutor






Blowback
Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.
Trackbacks/Pings
Trackback URL
Comments
Perry couldn’y put two words together. Made Bush look like a Mensa candidate.
hanzblinx on September 23, 2011 at 11:29 AM
Support our troops! …but only the straight ones.
/
mythicknight on September 23, 2011 at 11:30 AM
The worst part of the debate was Megan Kelly hyping the hard work the prep was. How they honed the questions etc. Then the actual debate was a joke in comparison.
meci on September 23, 2011 at 11:31 AM
OT:
UN Anti-American diatribes continue http://www.un.org/webcast
Namibia just denounced our policies, why are we sending $305,000,000 to them?!
Rea1ityCheck on September 23, 2011 at 11:34 AM
The whole format stinks, Jazz. And with that many people on stage, it’s more like a circus. The same old questions over and over and not one mention of the global meltdown we’re all witnessing.
How about more “DeMint” style forums, with one on one questioning instead of everyone attacking each other?
Last nights big winner was King Barry. Biggest loser, Fox News.
Knucklehead on September 23, 2011 at 11:35 AM
As I said in another thread, Santorum and ALL the other candidates missed an opportunity to thank that soldier for his service.
TedInATL on September 23, 2011 at 11:35 AM
The questions on video were the best ones FOX could find? Will they use the same ones with Zero should he have a primary fight? Did Johnson really think he could get away with the dog poop comment? Why was he invited since he has all but dropped out. FOX is gave us a dumbed down debate.
Kissmygrits on September 23, 2011 at 11:36 AM
The only thing the news said about the debate this morning is that the audience booed the gay serviceman in Iraq.
Great job with the optics, guys.
Washington Nearsider on September 23, 2011 at 11:37 AM
Wolf Blitzer totally pwned Fox News in the debate format.
sleepy-beans on September 23, 2011 at 11:38 AM
Sorry guys, but I thought this was the best debate yet…no “debate” is great, but this was better than most, I liked most of the questions, and yeah some were missing, but it would have removed others.
The candidates kept on time, still had time to do their one liners that they had worked on for weeks…and some question were revealing.
Like who would you choose as VP among the panel.
Very telling, not the answers, but who did answer, the two most “political” the pros wouldn’t answer, Newt and Romney…but Cain knocked it out, not afraid to answer any question…it was telling who was the polished pro who didn’t want to be “trapped” and who was the “full steam ahead, who give a damn”.
Newt and Romney, difficult to tell apart…
right2bright on September 23, 2011 at 11:39 AM
A better analogy still is that we were not seeing the Lincoln-Douglas debates unfolding. Mataconis is right that these forms of debate are awful, and reveal very little about the candidates other than how to either creat or handle gotcha moments.
simkeith on September 23, 2011 at 11:39 AM
But the best part about the debate was whenever she was on camera!
rollthedice on September 23, 2011 at 11:40 AM
Mr Shaw, the debates are supposed to have a cumulative effect. We are to take the measure of these candidates over the course of the primary campaign. To expect a walk-off home run in this context is the same as falling in love with a candidate because he has sharply creased pants.
Still in all, The Gipper’s, “Well, there you go again..” comes closest to such a feat in my less-than-nimble mind.
The War Planner on September 23, 2011 at 11:42 AM
It’s all about ratings, Jazz. Do you honestly think Fox would give up advertising revenue upticks in order to make the debates more meaningful?
a capella on September 23, 2011 at 11:43 AM
Reminds me of the game show “The Running Man”.
BobMbx on September 23, 2011 at 11:44 AM
..and the neighbors’ dogs crapping on a candidate’s lawn metaphor is certainly memorable if not indicative of a “tier one” candidate.
The War Planner on September 23, 2011 at 11:44 AM
Everyone is Mensa Candidate. Most don’t make it.
(I did)
BobMbx on September 23, 2011 at 11:45 AM
FOX was a massive fail last night. And the crowds at these debates are killing us….quit acting like a bunch of toothless morons people….
tpw on September 23, 2011 at 11:46 AM
..muchly agreed upon fact, this.
Exit question: who gives a flying fart about Google’s search graphs. Massively irrelevant, un-indicative, and supremely tangential. A gratuitous plug for one of the debate’s progenitors.
The War Planner on September 23, 2011 at 11:48 AM
Intrade: Romney 44%, Perry: 29%
Jazz, Ed and Allah can keep drinking their kool aid, their guy bomb big time and Romney shine again.
Falz on September 23, 2011 at 11:50 AM
If ONLY Palin had been on stage! My goodness, can you imagine how awesomely awesome it would have been!!!!
I think you need to take a chill pill Jazz. These debates are more about image than substance. It is unfortunate, but that is what the idiots of this country thinks passes for leadership. If the candidates had ACTUAL conversations about substantive issues, the electorate would fall a sleep or switch over to Jersey Shore.
csdeven on September 23, 2011 at 11:50 AM
You are just on fire today.
Cindy Munford on September 23, 2011 at 11:53 AM
Very disappointed with fox
I wanted to go after dear leader…but noooo
cmsinaz on September 23, 2011 at 11:55 AM
Fox News doesn’t seem to have a clue as to how to run a debate.
If it was up to me, I would turn all the question writing and asking to Greta, the best interviewer on Fox.
huckleberryfriend on September 23, 2011 at 11:55 AM
Agree meci
cmsinaz on September 23, 2011 at 11:56 AM
You may not have noticed, but Palin has been on-stage since Juan picked her as his VP.
Ask yourself this: Do you have any idea, or has it been reported anywhere, what the employment history (since birth) is of all the GOP candidates?
I believe the answer is “no”. The complete biography of only one potential candidate is known. And I’ll give you one guess who that is.
If she had only been onstage. Indeed.
BobMbx on September 23, 2011 at 11:57 AM
Debates?
What debates?
Oh, those prime time gotcha and vapid questions sound bites thingies?
Those are not debates.
Not even close.
coldwarrior on September 23, 2011 at 11:57 AM
She’s the best, along with Cavuto.
She’s not pretty enough or something like that. Fox needs that eye candy on camera rather than tough questions.
Knucklehead on September 23, 2011 at 12:00 PM
It is a stupid “tool”. Dollars to doughnuts if we actually nominated what would pass for a decent debater, The Won would never find the time to engage. He’s the busy president, after all.
Cindy Munford on September 23, 2011 at 12:00 PM
Bob, she needs to be with these folks on stage now….shes been going solo, I want her to mix it up with romney and perry
cmsinaz on September 23, 2011 at 12:06 PM
It was nightmarish,between buffering,frozen image,and
then,waiting for it to all catch up!!
canopfor on September 23, 2011 at 12:06 PM
Put all the candidates in individual soundproof booths, then bring them out individually and ask each the exact same question.
Not some bullcrap about underwear preference or what type of tree they would be, but substantive questions which force them to stay on topic. Then back in their booth and the next one trots out.
Bishop on September 23, 2011 at 12:11 PM
Fox News sensationalist and appealing to the lowest common denominator? Who could have predicted that?
Constantine on September 23, 2011 at 12:12 PM
I’d like to try a free for all match…
10 min openings and using the rule if your name is mentioned, 2 min rebuttals across the board.
NO questions from either the peanut gallery or the pundets.
ONE moderator to govern the times and cut the mike after the second warning.
Let’s see what they got, and I guarantee you we would see a LOT.
golfmann on September 23, 2011 at 12:16 PM
It reminded me of MSNBC in its infantcy when John Gibson was there. But why is Fox repeating the same mistakes?
meci on September 23, 2011 at 12:16 PM
That’s what I said above. That’s what they did at that DeMint forum.
Knucklehead on September 23, 2011 at 12:18 PM
Political TV debates are not debates. They are TV shows built around whatever network’s star talking head is there. Might as well be pro wrestling.
A real debate would not have an studio audience, and the moderator would be as low key as possible.
Moesart on September 23, 2011 at 12:31 PM
Youtube questions make it easier for the candidates to prep. Just check the most popular question the day before and you have a great idea what’s going to be asked.
inotes on September 23, 2011 at 12:37 PM
I prefer the format of, say, Battle of the Network Stars.
Now that would be worth watching.
BobMbx on September 23, 2011 at 12:37 PM
How about Greta, Cavuto, and Stossel as debate moderators?
And although I think Shannon Bream is positively yummy, the role Fox gave her was a joke. For that role, I’m surprised that Fox didn’t enlist Courtney Friel, who’s even more yummy.
BuckeyeSam on September 23, 2011 at 12:41 PM
I have never found anyone to admit anything but that they are a Mensa…of course you “did”…
right2bright on September 23, 2011 at 12:42 PM
canopfor on September 23, 2011 at 12:06 PM
It reminded me of MSNBC in its infantcy when John Gibson was there. But why is Fox repeating the same mistakes?
meci on September 23, 2011 at 12:16 PM
meci:Good point,I wish they would have a normal debate,ask
everyone the same question,without the drama and enter
tainment type factor!
Yup,I thought Fox was going to be a good debate..*sigh*!
canopfor on September 23, 2011 at 12:46 PM
The response to that soldier’s question by the audience and by the politicians up on stage was disgraceful.
lexhamfox on September 23, 2011 at 12:46 PM
Everyone should have been asked:
Will you implement E-verify…yes or no.
right2bright on September 23, 2011 at 12:46 PM
Pal it was one or two who booed, that was it, out of thousands…relax…
right2bright on September 23, 2011 at 12:47 PM
He feels sorry for the Palestinians to.
Cindy Munford on September 23, 2011 at 12:55 PM
Greta is a liberal, she needs to be kept miles away from any debate. She is also stridently anti-2nd Amendment.
slickwillie2001 on September 23, 2011 at 12:55 PM
I have to agree. Assuming the opening graphic was correct that fellow was in Iraq. When the country called he raised his hand and went. I was one of many that were not thrilled with the DADT decision but what is over is over.
And how many of the folks on stage thanked him for his service? The number does not matter. I heard it during the debate and it was easily audible. Perhaps the next debate moderator should check IDs and keep the children out because only a spoiled child would have done that.
Dawnsblood on September 23, 2011 at 1:05 PM
The Five would have made better moderators.
meci on September 23, 2011 at 1:11 PM
Actually, Romney’s “Nice try” to Perry was pretty close.
Herman Cain probably gave the best answer of the night when he explained how he would have died from cancer if ObamaCare had been in effect in 2006, but even his strong voice was drowned out by applause for about half his speaking time.
It seems like the studio audience is packed with diehard fans of one candidate or another, who “whoop it up” no matter what their favorite candidate says, but they do not represent the “persuadable” part of the electorate (Independent voters or Republicans who have not yet settled on a nominee).
All the candidates need to realize that the REAL audience in these debates is not a few thousand people cheering in front of them, but another audience hundreds of times larger listening silently on TV, and the candidates need to compose their answers for the larger audience, not the highly partisan yahoos in front of them.
Steve Z on September 23, 2011 at 1:12 PM
Beg to differ on that. She was a liberal on CNN, but she has been drifting rightward since she has had her own show on Fox, particularly after the 9/11 attacks. She has done friendly interviews with people like Rush Limbaugh, Rick Santorum, and Sarah Palin, and hasn’t hesitated to label some of Obama’s policies as “stupid”.
Also, the Scott Walker vs. public-sector unions conflict in her native Wisconsin has given Greta the opportunity to ask both sides some tough and knowledgeable questions.
As a former center-left journalist who has drifted center-right, Greta could ask Republican candidates questions designed to lead the candidates to appeal to persuadable Independent voters, and could lead them to a wider audience.
All things considered, I would still prefer to look at Megyn Kelly.
Steve Z on September 23, 2011 at 1:25 PM
They didn’t boo the soldier BUT THE QUESTION HE ASKED.
Nice guys finish last (see election results of 2006 and 2008). If the Left can be passionate about issues, so can the Right.
Megyn asked the dumbest question of the night to Gov. Perry. Who cares whether or not he has a good relationship with W. Bush.
RedRobin145 on September 23, 2011 at 1:26 PM
Some of us remember when that was the norm, e.g.
Kennedy-Nixon First Presidential Debate, 1960
whatcat on September 23, 2011 at 1:27 PM
Great, I responded to a fool…
right2bright on September 23, 2011 at 2:03 PM
I renew my call for a “debate” format that gives candidates a few hours to create a video responce to each question, perhaps followed by a live rebuttal of opponents videos.
Count to 10 on September 23, 2011 at 2:09 PM
Yeah, good idea, they can have a closet like a coat closet and make everyone check in their “boo’s”, and when they leave, give them back.
You are the kind that makes it worthwhile to blog on here, it gives me an idea of just how ridiculous some peoples logic is.
Out of thousands, a couple of boo’s, a couple of guys are idiots and give cat call’s, and you think it is a big deal.
In that audience there were: war heroes, and child molesters, people who have save lives, and people who have taken lives, honest people and thieves, saints and sinners, conservatives and liberals, thoughtful and the fools that made the ruckus…just a mix of people. That’s what happens when you have a group of thousands.
right2bright on September 23, 2011 at 2:10 PM
Since Ron Paul has lit a fire under them, the rebellious GOP bullies have started to throw off all restraint needed to win elections.
Do the want to lose?
The larger circle is the 50+1 % winner like Bush II by 200 votes in Florida won 8 years in office.
Throwing hispanics and gays out of your circle will just lose you the election.
The issues in 1933 Germany were pure German Blood and Soil as preached by herr Hitler.
The Paulians are preaching the same issues to the GOP which now decides it will allow a crowd to imitate the Nazi rallies. How stupid can political actors be?
They want to do more damage than Obama does just to be seen as having the strongest will to power.
jimw on September 23, 2011 at 2:19 PM
Blame the candidates. They’re the ones that approved the format. The ideal format would be like the one with Cheney and Edwards sitting at a table. But any more than 4 or 5 at the most would not work. This is what the nominee should insist on during the general, if Oboobi even agrees to participate.
AH_C on September 23, 2011 at 3:10 PM
“…or they include incendiary flares which professional journalists wouldn’t toss in…”
Do you know any?
iamsaved on September 23, 2011 at 3:27 PM
I was hoping someone would highlight this today.
Spot on post, Jazz.
The Ugly American on September 23, 2011 at 3:56 PM
The debate format kinda sucked. I don’t care what the audience thinks, I don’t need some yahoos to google about the answers.
I want to hear candidates talk about the major issues, so I can decide who gets my support.
The pep rally format we have lately is just pushing the opinions of the live audiences on the rest of us. Voting should be a personal choice. Not an exercise in peer pressure. The candidates seem all too willing to pander to those live audiences, too.
hawksruleva on September 23, 2011 at 4:03 PM
If Perry and Mittens are too stupid to realize they are being baited into a 4th grade yelling match, do I really want to vote for either of them to be the candidate?
If Perry staff spent as much time scouring Mittens’ books for one liners, as they should have been on ways to handle obvious immigration, social security, and gaurdisil gotcha questions, he might not have looked like doe in the headlights.
If Mittens spent less time time bitching about Perry and reading his books, he might find a better way to not look weak on climate, romneycare, and entitlements.
They both looked bad, and Fox should be ashamed for egging on the lowest common denominator, and wasting our time by not getting to substantial issues.
elowe on September 23, 2011 at 4:06 PM
She’s liberal, but she’s willing to ask tough questions of anyone who comes on her show. And she’s smart enough to know that Rush Limbaugh clips are good for her ratings – she wouldn’t sabotoge a GOP debate.
hawksruleva on September 23, 2011 at 4:11 PM
I don’t understand what difference all this “appearance” stuff makes, why its so important to you. There is nothing that could have happened at that debate that the MSM would not have made look bad the next day. Anyone that actually watched it knows better than the next-day reports, anyway.
Axe on September 23, 2011 at 4:13 PM
Can I just say, Ron Paul’s answer made him look like a vain self-absorbed fool. I’ve never liked him less. The least he could do is return Johnson’s compliment.
alwaysfiredup on September 23, 2011 at 4:14 PM
The problem with these ‘debates’ is that they don’t help to demonstrate executive competence.
A system of getting the candidates together to draft some platform planks they can all run on would allow the public to see how each individual handles themselves in a project that requires give and take, negotiations and demonstrating when you just don’t agree with other people you can still make that known and not be disagreeable. Executives must do this on a day to day basis be it as the head of a company or a head of a Nation, but the ‘debates’ don’t do one little bit to show this. The candidates do talk with each other, but behind the scenes, and that is where the action is: off camera.
Move that ON CAMERA with someone that all the candidates can agree upon to lead a discussion on some commonly talked about platform planks. Last night the idea of reducing the size, scope and power of the federal government came into view – this needs to be a platform plank. Redoing or removing the current taxation system also came into view – that needs to be a platform plank. These planks, developed in the open with each other and perhaps one or two advisors chosen from suggestions for same given by all the candidates would allow each to shine in their necessary Executive skills that are critical to being a President.
How good a negotiator is Romney? Or Bachmann? Or Cain?
Not on their past record but on the spot, having to perform, having to get their points across and having to listen to those they may not agree with and work out some common ground. Who really does this well? What are their viewpoints? What will they compromise on and what won’t they compromise on? Wouldn’t you like to know this BEFORE you cast a single vote for ANY of them?
Yet you will never, ever know and will have to try and discern from past records if they are any good at those skills. Often times it isn’t those on the other side that are the hardest to negotiate with, but those in your own party. How well do any of these do that?
This format has to go and get down to the critical policy and executive skills necessary to bring forth a new way to have a government that isn’t looking to run our lives and brought to us by people who are willing to perform those skills under scrutiny. Be nice to know before you hand one of them the nuclear football, no?
ajacksonian on September 23, 2011 at 4:25 PM
The media should have no role at all in partisan debates. These are to help determine the GOP nominee. We should let the media cover them live on TV, but it is a mistake to allow them even to be part of the story on the panel, much less set the rules and format for us.
Adjoran on September 23, 2011 at 5:09 PM
The boos for the gay soldier probably came from Democrat plants in the audience.
RUDYJ on September 23, 2011 at 5:09 PM
Hahahaha!!! You people are priceless.
csdeven on September 23, 2011 at 5:23 PM
Well put Jazz, and I agree 100%. It also makes the candidates try too hard to be something they are not. I kept waiting for Mitt to turn to Perry and say, “Put up your dukes, cowboy!”
I say dump the audience along with the other hip stuff and let us watch a real debate. We have enough reality tv in our lives already.
Mr_Magoo on September 23, 2011 at 5:32 PM
A turning point for me in 41′s reelection campaign came with the speakers before his nomination. I finally had to turn off the radio I was getting so utterly disgusted at the hatred for our fellow human beings and a good sized chunk of the American public. I can understand Muslims spraying the filth I listened to. They hate anything that is not their brand of Islam. Christians, however, are supposed to be better than that. Sadly way too many are not. As such I will do the same if Santorum is nominated as I did with 41′s reelection. Fail to vote for POTUS at all. I may for the first time ever turn my back entirely on the election. I cannot take part in a choice between two extreme evils.
Santorum can go do something anatomically improbable with himself, a sponge, and 47 goldfish.
{+_+}
herself on September 24, 2011 at 4:05 AM