AP fact check: Secretaries don’t pay more taxes than their bosses
posted at 9:25 am on September 20, 2011 by Ed Morrissey
Let’s hope that Warren Buffet is better at managing funds than he is at tax policy. After Buffett complained that his secretary pays a higher tax rate than he does, Barack Obama decided to call his new class-warfare taxes “the Buffett Rule” and emphasize that he wants to make taxes more “fair.” But was Buffett right? According to an AP fact check — and just about every ounce of common sense that exists outside of the class-warfare fever swamps of the White House these days — not at all:
“Middle-class families shouldn’t pay higher taxes than millionaires and billionaires,” Obama said Monday. “That’s pretty straightforward. It’s hard to argue against that.”
The data tell a different story. On average, the wealthiest people in America pay a lot more taxes than the middle class or the poor, according to private and government data. They pay at a higher rate, and as a group, they contribute a much larger share of the overall taxes collected by the federal government.
There may be individual millionaires who pay taxes at rates lower than middle-income workers. In 2009, 1,470 households filed tax returns with incomes above $1 million yet paid no federal income tax, according to the Internal Revenue Service. That, however, was less than 1 percent of the nearly 237,000 returns with incomes above $1 million.
Even when talking rates rather than aggregate payments, the claims made by Buffett and Obama are nothing more than an urban legend:
This year, households making more than $1 million will pay an average of 29.1 percent of their income in federal taxes, including income taxes and payroll taxes, according to the Tax Policy Center, a Washington think tank.
Households making between $50,000 and $75,000 will pay 15 percent of their income in federal taxes.
Lower-income households will pay less. For example, households making between $40,000 and $50,000 will pay an average of 12.5 percent of their income in federal taxes. Households making between $20,000 and $30,000 will pay 5.7 percent.
That has been true ever since the US went to a progressive income tax. It was true decades ago, it was true a few years ago, and it remains true today. Those with higher incomes pay more taxes at higher rates that those with lower incomes. So unless Buffett’s paying his secretary a million dollars a year, the notion that we’re burying secretaries in higher taxes while letting millionaires and billionaires off the hook is flat-out false.
Buffett should know better than to make that kind of claim without checking his facts first, but no one elected Buffett to be in charge of anything, either. The President of the United States has vast resources at his command to get the facts straight before speaking to the American people, especially before pushing a divisive and destructive policy like his tax plan with class-warfare rhetoric designed to gin up demand for government to start seizing more from the successful than they already do. Either Obama doesn’t bother to do his homework, or he doesn’t care whether he’s passing along myths rather than facts.









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The hell you say, Edward!
fossten on September 20, 2011 at 9:28 AM
Why is nobody taking Obama to task for not lowering taxes on secretaries?
John Deaux on September 20, 2011 at 9:30 AM
Paging Bayam
Paging Bayam
Phone call on line 2 for Bayam
Paging Bayam…
angryed on September 20, 2011 at 9:31 AM
There ya go. “Form over function” describes everything this president does.
Meric1837 on September 20, 2011 at 9:31 AM
Ernesto, paging Ernesto.
Call on line 3 for Ernesto
Is there an Ernesto in the house? You have an urgent call on line 3
angryed on September 20, 2011 at 9:32 AM
When even the Associated Press acknowledges a fact, you know it must be pretty obvious. But not to the current White House.
hawksruleva on September 20, 2011 at 9:33 AM
I wonder what Buffett’s actual secretary’s take on this is.
Fezzik on September 20, 2011 at 9:33 AM
Obooba should just give all secretaries raises. Duh.
Akzed on September 20, 2011 at 9:33 AM
The libtard reply of course will be
“But the secretary pays FICA tax and gas tax and sales tax and property tax so she actually does pay more as a % in tax”.
angryed on September 20, 2011 at 9:33 AM
The Associated Press has been reported to Attack Watch.
Good Lt on September 20, 2011 at 9:33 AM
He only answers to “Che.”
Akzed on September 20, 2011 at 9:33 AM
And the alphabet networks continue with the myth
AP facts be damned
cmsinaz on September 20, 2011 at 9:34 AM
There’s a 3rd choice…that it’s on purpose for brazenly political reasons. It’s probably following one of Alinsky’s tactics to the tee…
Youngs98 on September 20, 2011 at 9:34 AM
They really, really think we are all just drooling idiots. A Progressive’s contempt for the average citizen knows no bounds.
Mord on September 20, 2011 at 9:34 AM
“in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods. It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire together in the art of lying.” Adolf Hitler
Viator on September 20, 2011 at 9:34 AM
So one of two things is happening
1. Obama and Buffett are liars
2. Buffertt pays his secretary $200K in which case she is hardly middle class.
angryed on September 20, 2011 at 9:34 AM
Not hearing anybody latch onto the argument that Buffett’s secretary might enjoy paying LESS
/.
CaveatEmpty on September 20, 2011 at 9:35 AM
I think congress should pass a bill raising Buffett’s taxes–just his, and dare Obama to veto it.
cartooner on September 20, 2011 at 9:36 AM
He is. He cheats.
kingsjester on September 20, 2011 at 9:36 AM
I’m going with door #2 monty, he doesn’t care, anything to rev up his base
cmsinaz on September 20, 2011 at 9:36 AM
So taxes are a bad thing now?
Liberals always tell me they’re great, and patriotic. And that they help the little guy.
Huh.
Seems again that they don’t know what they’re talking about.
Good Lt on September 20, 2011 at 9:37 AM
It’s not really an “either/or” proposition. Obama is both too lazy to do his homework (and why shouldn’t he be, since he’s been given A’s his entire career, whether he bothered to check his facts or not), and he doesn’t care if he’s passing along myths (because he knows the MSM will present them to the public as facts, regardless).
AZCoyote on September 20, 2011 at 9:38 AM
Buffet is correct….his secretary has less advantage in claiming loopholes, deferring income, sheltering income and taking advantage of myriad lawyers and accountants to make sure not a penny in tax is paid…unlike real working Americans who annually file their taxes, being as honest as possible lest the IRS garnish their entire lives…while Buffet can buy his way out of any IRS difficulties, should he need to, preferring rather to allow politicians to grant him amnesty and such, for his being to large to fail.
Now, if Buffet were a man of honor, conviction and had any inkling to do the right thing, he’d open his checkbook and write a huge check to the US Treasury today and set things right….there is no law prohibiting such.
But for the likes of people as Buffet (Kerry falls into this camp) they will complain to high heaven about the unfairness of the system, but will they take any personal steps to set things right?
Of course not, for there are no laws compelling them to do so.
Thus, legality and morality are at sixes and sevens….and they take advantage of that confusion.
coldwarrior on September 20, 2011 at 9:41 AM
“urban myth?” that’s very generous of you, Ed. The man is a bald faced liar.
He knows it’s a lie and so does buffett. All they want to do is stoke the socialist left.
When the AP fact checks a socialist and puts the lie to their propaganda, that socialist is in trouble.
dogsoldier on September 20, 2011 at 9:42 AM
If buffet got on the payroll he could avoid paying those lower rates or he could just offer his secretary profit sharing and a full pension and she could have that low rate he has.
tim c on September 20, 2011 at 9:43 AM
Buffett’s Berkshire salary is only $100K/year. The majority of his income from dividends and capital gains is taxed at a lower rate than his secretary. He’s an unusual case, even among CEO’s.
dedalus on September 20, 2011 at 9:44 AM
Buffet sells life insurance. Full life policies are an age old means of sheltering money from taxes. More and higher taxes make full life policies more attractive.
Pretty simple.
Akzed on September 20, 2011 at 9:45 AM
Math is hard.
dentalque on September 20, 2011 at 9:45 AM
All this is, seems an attempt to deceive.
I am not an accountant but if I’m understanding correctly… if by some miracle I won the lottery, scored wad-o-cash to invest and was able to simply live off the interest payments, those interest payments would be taxed at a lower rate than my current drawn salary. This would bring my overall average tax liability down but it’s apples/oranges. The deceit comes with saying secretaries have a higher tax liability, without saying why, just to stir up animosity.
Since I’ve not won the lottery, I’d like to know how they’re proposing to parse out the non-millionaires in this scenario, a proposed 35% tax on the whopping 2 cents I’ve made in my savings account is just as silly as the current 15% on it.
ExPat on September 20, 2011 at 9:46 AM
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2011/09/19/media-myth-debunked-millionaires-dont-pay-less-tax-percentage-agi-low
More data to support this including pretty tables and such
CommentGuy on September 20, 2011 at 9:47 AM
When he (Obama) hears something that fits his narrative,from someone who he wishes he could be like, to him it’s like Moses receiving the laws. Boffit said it so it’s Gospel.
oldernwiser on September 20, 2011 at 9:48 AM
I thought this was about the rate on capital gains or some such thing with a 20% tax rate?
If your income is from capital gains rather than “working” you pay a lower tax rate.
And take a risk.
tomg51 on September 20, 2011 at 9:51 AM
I know that Obama has compared himself to Lincoln. Here are a couple of quotes attributed to Lincoln.
That some should be rich, shows that others may become rich, and, hence, is just encouragement to industry and enterprise
You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong.
You cannot help small men by tearing down big men.
You cannot help the poor by destroying the rich.
You cannot lift the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer.
You cannot keep out of trouble by spending more than your income.
You cannot further the brotherhood of man by inciting class hatreds.
You cannot establish security on borrowed money.
You cannot build character and courage by taking away a man’s initiative and independence.
You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they could and should do for themselves.
If he wasn’t so shameless, Obama should be ashamed to compare himself to the great man. They could not be more different.
Brian Mallard on September 20, 2011 at 9:52 AM
What’s in it for Buffett, everybody’s favorite grandfatherly billionaire? Plenty.
Drained Brain on September 20, 2011 at 9:52 AM
What about households making 75K-200K? this is where the AP doesn’t get it right.
I can compare the Obama’s tax return where they declared 1.7M and paid about 17% after exemptions were factored in. I don’t qualify for most exemptions because we live within our means and our rate was around 23% for our income.
Where I think people are being a little disingenuous are the exemptions. Declare a flat tax of 10% and eliminate all exemptions. It accomplishes two things; (a) makes the bite truly equal and (b) for lower income families forces them to have to learn to live within their means. Many families making below 50K pay no tax due to exemptions.
Bradky on September 20, 2011 at 9:52 AM
They are going to institute a minimum tax for individuals with over a million dollars in income.
Fezzik on September 20, 2011 at 9:53 AM
..this bullsh*t is starting to be walked back. This morning on Imus the 3 PM Fox Business New babe was having multiple orgasms on TV about what a super-ordinary and accessible guy Buffett is.
We should expect more puff pieces about this old coot.
The War Planner on September 20, 2011 at 9:53 AM
so Buffett, the 3rd wealthiest man on earth, acquires dozens of clothing, shoe, and textile operations in the US, shut them down, put tens of thousands of Americans out of work over the years, so he could move it all to the China and pay pennies to Chinese sweatshop workers, all for a buck while screwing Americans…. and here is our president extolling the virtues of this creep in his speeches.
Wake up America.
maineconservative on September 20, 2011 at 9:55 AM
..they’ve started:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/elections/2007-03-08-2531343349_x.htm
I love it how the MSM now likes to run the arrogant, head-uplifted pics of Obama.
The War Planner on September 20, 2011 at 9:55 AM
August home building fell 5 pct., slide continues
Tax the rich! That will fix everything.
Drained Brain on September 20, 2011 at 9:56 AM
I wonder who, in the White House, came up this (I’m afraid the Socialist-In-Chief isn’t savvy enough). IF this things ever passes, it will not be called the “Obama Tax Increase”—it will be called the “Buffet Tax Increase”. Forever detaching The One’s name from a huge tax increase.
dirtseller on September 20, 2011 at 9:58 AM
that story is from 2007, isn’t it?
ted c on September 20, 2011 at 10:01 AM
I doubt he’s ever done his homework. Any attempt at calling him to account would be racist!
Politicians make all sorts of claims and whip up stories for their own ends. I get that. But the current crop are so transparently poor at their job. It’s as if they are just phoning it in, and expect the MSM to do their work for them.
rbj on September 20, 2011 at 10:04 AM
Well I think what Buffet said is that he paid a smaller %. Which would make sense because he pretty much makes most of his annual money via long term stock transactions, which is 15%.
jeffn21 on September 20, 2011 at 10:05 AM
Until Buffet pays the Billion in back taxes he owes, I don’t want to hear a word out of him. Not to mention the fact that he makes use of a foundation so that he can exercise control over his charitable choices rather than forking the money over to Uncle Sam to fund the Administration’s ideas of charitable largesse. Hypocrite.
txmomof6 on September 20, 2011 at 10:06 AM
I found a secretary who doesn’t pay any taxes at all. Name’s Timmy.
The Mega Independent on September 20, 2011 at 10:08 AM
Stop coddling Warren Buffett.
Drained Brain on September 20, 2011 at 10:09 AM
Whenever someone makes this claim, simply point out that Buffett pays tens of millions in corporate income taxes (via his massive stock holdings).
TallDave on September 20, 2011 at 10:09 AM
The Mega Independent on September 20, 2011 at 10:08 AM
You, sir, are full of win.
TallDave on September 20, 2011 at 10:10 AM
..busted. Yes, it is. Thanks for the heads up.
The War Planner on September 20, 2011 at 10:12 AM
Buffett is a buffoon
faraway on September 20, 2011 at 10:13 AM
Chip on September 20, 2011 at 10:20 AM
We’ve been under attack for over 2 1/2 years now and some still don’t realize that Obama is shooting real bullets at us.
GaltBlvnAtty on September 20, 2011 at 10:22 AM
If it is true that his company owes taxes to the treasury, isn’t a tad risky to use him for the poster child?
Cindy Munford on September 20, 2011 at 10:27 AM
great quote
cmsinaz on September 20, 2011 at 10:27 AM
you’d think however none of the gop pundits will bring it up….it’s mindboggling
cmsinaz on September 20, 2011 at 10:28 AM
The AP fact check says absolutely nothing about this.
burt on September 20, 2011 at 10:28 AM
Let us pass a law to confiscate all of Buffet’s income.
antisocial on September 20, 2011 at 10:29 AM
ObaMao prefers myths because it is important for him to create the narrative that his puppets will repeat. It is part of the Goebbels big Lie propaganda ploy.
onlineanalyst on September 20, 2011 at 10:31 AM
In 2009, 1,470 households filed tax returns with incomes above $1 million yet paid no federal income tax, according to the Internal Revenue Service.
Well, if Buffet is one of these 1,470 households then in fact, he is right about his secretary paying more than he does in taxes.
And if this is the case – then Buffet needs to get a visit from an IRS team to find out why he doesn’t pay any taxes.
/sarc
And please the man is a dinosaur – the word secretary is so 1962.
KrisinNE on September 20, 2011 at 10:35 AM
I’m shocked the AP actually ran this.
holygoat on September 20, 2011 at 10:36 AM
I’m reporting AP to ATTACKWATCH!
How dare they call the Liar-in-Chief a liar!
GarandFan on September 20, 2011 at 10:36 AM
Obama tells more lies than secretaries.
albill on September 20, 2011 at 10:38 AM
The Portland news channels are always kissing Obama’s backside in their news stories. But this morning, I was shocked to see one of the local affiliates actually take Barry to the woodshed over this.
They showed that a person making 50 Million dollars pays 24% taxes.
Then they showed a person making 50 thousand dollars paying 6% taxes.
My wife and I looked at eachother kind of shocked.
Awakening????
portlandon on September 20, 2011 at 10:39 AM
Isn’t it strange that the smartest, most cerebral intellectual powerhouse ever to inhabit the Oval office can never seem to learn such wisdom?
Or ever figure out that if something doesn’t work once, there is no point in repeating it?
Maybe El Presidente Downgrade isn’t as smart as his college transcripts show him to be…
Chip on September 20, 2011 at 10:39 AM
I don’t get it either. I will assume someone knows more than the public. In my case, not hard.
Cindy Munford on September 20, 2011 at 10:39 AM
Way back during the 2008 presidential debates, Obama said that he wanted to increase the taxes on capital gains in the interest of “fairness.” Even the moderator (whoever he was) was incredulous at O’s response.
Obama has been playing class warfare all along.
onlineanalyst on September 20, 2011 at 10:40 AM
it appears so
cmsinaz on September 20, 2011 at 10:42 AM
maybe the AP will finally get a hold of his transcripts
cmsinaz on September 20, 2011 at 10:44 AM
Mathbusting.
Kenosha Kid on September 20, 2011 at 10:46 AM
The “progressive” plan of propaganda is spelled out by the Communist Party USA head:
http://trevorloudon.com/2011/09/communist-leader-six-crucial-tasks-for-the-left-and-progressive-community/
onlineanalyst on September 20, 2011 at 10:51 AM
Wins.
Washington Nearsider on September 20, 2011 at 10:51 AM
I used to have a lot of respect for Mr. Buffet, and considered investing in BH at one time just couldn’t afford it. Since then, I have come to believe that he’s no oracle and just an average buy and hold investment manager. Now, I think of him as someone who puts himself and his interests above the country. Too much of that going’ on today.
Kissmygrits on September 20, 2011 at 10:57 AM
Are you saying he didn’t say it? Because he did, at a fundraiser for Hillary in June of 2007.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/money/tax/article1996735.ece
Deanna on September 20, 2011 at 11:03 AM
I don’t know why the 47% that don’t pay any income taxes can’t pay at least $100 in income tax. At a minimum wage, that’s only 14 hours of work per year. Surely they could sacrifice a mere 14 hours of leisure time to help Obama out and that would generate at least as much in revenue as Obama’s millionaire tax.
Besides, if you think that by raising taxes on millionaires means that the millionaires, not you, the average John Q. or Jane Q. Public, are ultimately paying the tax, you really ought to think harder.
Dusty on September 20, 2011 at 11:09 AM
Class warfare
RDE2010 on September 20, 2011 at 11:10 AM
flyoverland’s take on the Buffet rule
http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/12469929/stikz-movie
flyoverland on September 20, 2011 at 11:10 AM
I think he is trying to claim that the AP did not specifically prove that Buffett’s secretary paid more taxes than Buffett.
Buffett’s claim here is disengenuous anyway – he is likely relying on the fact that his company pays him a lower salary than it pays the secretary, in which case it makes perfect sense that she pays more “income tax” on a higher salary (he doeesn’t need to draw a big salary, he gets a lot in dividents and has plenty of wealth accumulated already).
Of course, if you tally the total taxes Buffett pays (capital gains, taxes on interest income) versus the total taxes that the secretary pays – only the most dishonest person would claim she pays more in taxes. If she did, it would be b/c Buffett is hiding his wealth in tax shelters, etc., which defeats his entire argument – he could easily be paying more in taxes if he wanted to.
Monkeytoe on September 20, 2011 at 11:12 AM
Obama: the misleading ideologue from beginning to end (of us).
mbabbitt on September 20, 2011 at 11:14 AM
if you own an LLC, you can work it, to where you pay little taxes. List everything as a business expense. oldest trick in the book. W-2 employees get screwed.
hanzblinx on September 20, 2011 at 11:15 AM
That quote from the article by AP is also 100% B.S. People in the 15 percent tax bracket do not pay 15 percent of their income in taxes. It is more likely about 10 percent or just slightly more.
Over my working years, where I earned $2 million plus, I averaged an actual income tax rate of 9.62 percent. One of the higher years where I payed 14.51% my earnings were only $4,183 of course that was in 1966. In my 2004 AGI was about $90,000 and percent tax payed was 10.38%.
You see the tax code has these weird things called deductions, and credits which reduce your tax liability. Which strangely also reduce the percentage tax you pay relative to income.
Dasher on September 20, 2011 at 11:22 AM
Sadly, he doesn’t have a motivation for truthfulness, so the resources are rather pointless.
disa on September 20, 2011 at 11:23 AM
What do his college transcripts show?
holygoat on September 20, 2011 at 11:26 AM
Of course if you actually produce a product the parts and finished product count as inventory which counts as income.
Dasher on September 20, 2011 at 11:28 AM
While they are rejiggering stuff, lower the Earned Income Tax Credit. Two reasons, everyone needs to pay and I want to watch the melt down.
Cindy Munford on September 20, 2011 at 11:29 AM
True. Do they not apply to the secretary as well?
Cindy Munford on September 20, 2011 at 11:30 AM
Also not mentioned:
Buffet won’t be impacted by the kinds of tax increases he’s calling for he owes 1 Billion+ in back taxes and is fighting the IRS in paying them.
It’s unintentionally appropriate that Obama is attaching the name of this corporate crony/fascist to the name of his plan.
gwelf on September 20, 2011 at 11:31 AM
Also not mentioned – you could confiscate all of Buffet’s 50 Billion dollars and only eliminate ~10 days of federal deficit spending.
gwelf on September 20, 2011 at 11:32 AM
Basic Democrat strategy. Tell a lie long enough and it becomes true. At least to large segment of people. Stalin and Lenin did this.
Buffett is on s guilt trip. Sad.
Hummer53 on September 20, 2011 at 11:37 AM
I’m less concerned about the meltdown than seeing a fair system that discourages the lobbyists in the implementation. With a flat tax the special interests have their legs taken out from under them.
Bradky on September 20, 2011 at 11:37 AM
And that $50 billion is his total wealth, not his income.
Dasher on September 20, 2011 at 11:44 AM
Also not mentioned is the fact that Warren Buffett and Bill Gates, two of the richest people in the world are also the biggest philanthropists in the world. Giving away more of their wealth than anyone else. In Bill Gates’ case it is his avocation to give away his wealth to various causes.
Dasher on September 20, 2011 at 11:47 AM
I have to problem with a Flat Tax with no deductions.
Cindy Munford on September 20, 2011 at 11:47 AM
Oh, and the meltdown is for entertainment purposes only.
Cindy Munford on September 20, 2011 at 11:48 AM
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