Republicans muster up a big explosion of “meh” to Ponzi-scheme rhetoric
posted at 9:25 am on September 16, 2011 by Ed Morrissey
With Republican candidates ginning up outrage over Rick Perry’s remarks on Social Security, one might think that some internal polling shows primary voters will punish Perry for his rhetoric calling the system a “Ponzi scheme.” Gallup tested this theory in its latest survey and discovered that Republicans generally are as attracted as they are repelled by the description of Social Security in those terms. Republican-leaning independents may be a different story, however:
Texas Gov. and presidential candidate Rick Perry’s comments on Social Security, which include calling it a “Ponzi scheme,” appear to be a non-issue for most Republicans. However, they could cost him support with independents should he ultimately win the 2012 Republican presidential nomination. As many Republicans say they are more likely to vote for Perry for president because of his views on Social Security as say they are less likely — 19% each. Among independents, 12% are more likely to vote for him and 32% less likely.
This could show some danger for all of the Republican candidates in either attacking or defending Perry’s description. Perry himself has no choice, not unless he wants to make “Ponzi scheme” into the new “ObamneyCare.” Besides, it doesn’t look like Perry minds carrying the argument into the debates, and polling so far doesn’t indicate that it’s costing him anything, at least not yet. He’s more vulnerable on other issues — like immigration and the HPV vaccine mandate — than he is on Social Security, where his actual position doesn’t actually differ much from any other Republican on the debate stage.
That puts Perry’s opponents into a minor quandry. Mitt Romney and Jon Huntsman can continue to attack the “Ponzi scheme” formulation, but all that will do will be to curry favor with less than a third of independents, a segment to which they’re already appealing (or at least Romney is). Michele Bachmann can attack on this to try to win some independents to her banner, but (a) it might undermine her with her existing base, and (b) after the Gardasil-causes-mental-retardation flameout, she has zero chance of gaining any traction among the independents who might be offended by Ponzi-scheme comparisons.
This poll shows that a War Games strategy might be best for Perry’s Republican opponents tempted into a Ponzi-scheme battle: the best decision is not to play.
Speaking of Ponzi schemes and Social Security, Steven Crowder tries to answer the question of whether Perry is right in his latest video. And if Perry is right, well, shouldn’t someone be told about this? Crowder is indeed a man of action:
If you see something … say something.









Blowback
Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.
Trackbacks/Pings
Trackback URL
Comments
People people people – let go of the government programs!
gophergirl on September 16, 2011 at 9:28 AM
It’s time for some plainspeak.
publiuspen on September 16, 2011 at 9:33 AM
just too many people who planned on using social security as their retirement plan. and for quite a few its too late to change course. its a problem that needs to be faced and dealt w/ asap though.
so glad i havent paid into social security in over 10 years!!
chasdal on September 16, 2011 at 9:34 AM
I’m going to be 47 in less than a month. For my entire adult life I have not believed that I would get anything from social security. It’s always been about the demographics, which are unfavorable. Essentially, it is a ponzi scheme. Any politician who runs against that is being dishonest.
rbj on September 16, 2011 at 9:35 AM
So, Social Security has graduated from “third rail” to “thermonuclear war”?
Count to 10 on September 16, 2011 at 9:38 AM
100% agree. I’ve paid in since I was 14 and am now in my mid 30′s. I haven’t even put SS in my thought process for retirement. Unfortunately I’m one of the few it seems.
Perry is right and people know it. They just don’t want to admit it.
Speaking of Perry – this article ought to start some new “outrage” among the left LOL!
http://nation.foxnews.com/rick-perry/2011/09/15/perry-drops-socialist-bomb-obama
gophergirl on September 16, 2011 at 9:40 AM
Any time I talk to Democrats about this, they just give me a thumbs up and say “Eyyyyyy, be cool!”
Which then makes social security a…
FONZI SCHEME!
Nethicus on September 16, 2011 at 9:40 AM
Interesting call this a.m. to a local talk station from a small business owner. He mentioned that his payroll taxes looked suspiciously high lately. Called the Missouri DOR and was told all payroll taxes went up because the state had borrowed money from the fed to cover the extension of unemployment. The state just decided (doesn’t sound like there was even a legislative vote on this)to pass the cost of paying back the debt along to business owners. This call was followed up by several more from folks saying they actually got a bill from the state and it STATED that it was to pay back the money the state borrowed from the fed.
I get this isn’t about SS and a Ponzi scheme, but it sure brings the point home, IMO.
Chewy the Lab on September 16, 2011 at 9:43 AM
Thanks, Wikipedia!
fusionaddict on September 16, 2011 at 9:44 AM
Rush Limbaugh was ahead of his time. Again!
http://www.newsmax.com/InsideCover/limbaugh-operation-chaos/2008/04/24/id/323517
patch on September 16, 2011 at 9:49 AM
Sorry!
Wrong thread.
patch on September 16, 2011 at 9:49 AM
I’m right there with you. I’m 31, and under no illusions. I won’t see a dime of SS, so I have to put away more. The infuriating part is that instead of being able to save what I put into the system, it just disappears, reducing my disposable income and further hurting the economy.
Washington Nearsider on September 16, 2011 at 9:52 AM
To be honest – SS was one of the main reasons I voted for GWB the first election. He was the first person to start talking about giving our generation a choice when it came to SS. Of course his ideas never had a chance but at least he was starting the conversation.
gophergirl on September 16, 2011 at 9:57 AM
100% agree. I’ve paid in since I was 14 and am now in my mid 30′s. I haven’t even put SS in my thought process for retirement. Unfortunately I’m one of the few it seems.
Perry is right and people know it. They just don’t want to admit it.
gophergirl on September 16, 2011 at 9:40 AM
gophergirl:
I paid into it for over 44 years, and I never counted on getting anything back. I just counted it as more tax and planned on retirement without it. Now that I am retired SS will probably be means tested away, because, in effect, I did the right thing all along. I do think SS is an outrage and that it needs to be fixed for younger people. It needs to be fully discussed, and Perry is doing a service by getting it front and center.
GaltBlvnAtty on September 16, 2011 at 10:01 AM
I think that may be one of the most vital parts of the current conversation. Everyone smashed Perry’s bag for using the phrase ‘ponzi scheme,’ but the more people start actually looking at it, the less of a fool Perry looks.
I don’t have the answers. I am, however, completely aware of the problem. If a candidate isn’t willing to acknowledge that problem, it will be extremely difficult for me to cast a vote in their favor.
Washington Nearsider on September 16, 2011 at 10:03 AM
The problem is if my generation stops paying in – the fund dries up even faster. When is the cut off? When do you phase people out?
People like yourself who did the right thing will be the first to suffer I’m afraid.
I was on vacation last week and saw a commercial from some attorneys talking about how 90% of SS disability claims get denied at first filing and how they’ll get you the money you deserve. That is the problem with the system in a nutshell.
gophergirl on September 16, 2011 at 10:07 AM
What the govt is doing with SS is fraudulent. This is a war (rhetorically speaking) of words. “Ponzi scheme” is too shocking for people to grasp, so in knee-jerk fashion they reject reality and won’t listen, like a defense mechanism. Find another phrase that’s more palatable for the public (people are herders and follow-the-crowd) yet says the same thing. We need to be more savvy in our communication if we want to deal with the issue effectively.
conservative pilgrim on September 16, 2011 at 10:11 AM
Meh is right, and Crowder seems to get it. This is not a poisonous statement, obviously, and mainstream economic thinkers like Krauthammer have not only acknowledged that Perry is right, but that he “obviously” right — Social Security is clearly a Ponzi scheme … as it is currently set up, functioning and funded.
This is easy to finesse, and for the greater good. Just because we know it’s a joke foisted upon us by liberals and feckless Republicans, the question isn’t what it is, but what do we do to fix it. Those who run away scared in the polls have been presented with yet another false dichotomy: is it a Ponzi scheme or do we keep it?
BS. There are 1,000 options, not two. And when Perry can take the time and get the forum to say so, those who will listen will understand that they have been duped again by the douchepolls.
Jaibones on September 16, 2011 at 10:13 AM
After the Michele Bachmann theatrics, I am pretty sure Team Perry can cross out “Gardasil” from their list of concerns.
Perry is also not as vulnerable on immigration as some think. The facts support his argument that:
1. A border fence along the whole Mexican border is NOT feasible. There are better ways of securing the border. He is NOT against securing the border.
2. Illegal immigration policy/securing the border is a constitutional mandate of the Federal Govt. Where the Federal Govt. refuses to act, state Govts. can only make the best of the situation.
Texas chose to offer in-state tuition to children of illegal immigrants already on a path to citizenship. This is to encourage them to become responsible individuals rather than resort to crime because their parents cannot afford expensive out-of-state tuition.
TheRightMan on September 16, 2011 at 10:17 AM
Crowder, and any one under the age of 45 should certainly be very worried about the status of SS. And they have every right to call it a ponzi scheme, since the entire funding has been raided by the federal government. The fund is filled with IOU’s—which means Obama can just instruct the “Super-duper committee” to add this debacle to there list of “projects”. Problem solved.
As an aside, does anyone see how Obama’s advisers, (and our Congress), have allowed almost all monetary and debt issues/problems to go directly to this new committee—leaving Obama with the perfect narrative that our nation’s fiscal status is in their hands, and therefore Obama is NOT RESPONSIBLE for any actions or resolve? It’s no longer Bush’s fault, it’s the committee’s fault for not producing any resolutions. Just as Newt has said in the debates, this COMITTEE IS A JOKE! I will vote for the next conservative candidate that promises to dissolve this committee, (along with Obamacare), the first day they are in office.
Rovin on September 16, 2011 at 10:22 AM
Attttttttack Waaaaaaaatch!!!!
I have reported this to the Ministry of Truth.
ramrants on September 16, 2011 at 10:29 AM
Democrats: Social security is not a Ponzi scheme because it’s not an investment – it’s a direct transfer of wealth! See, when we won’t be able to pay current enrollees well just transfer the wealth from young children who haven’t entered the work force yet by going into debt.
gwelf on September 16, 2011 at 10:30 AM
Anyone who says that SS is not a Ponzi is lying. A simple retort is why not make SS OPTIONAL? Because without new investors SS would not just be broke, it would be gone.
jeffn21 on September 16, 2011 at 10:56 AM
Krauthammer seems to agree with Perry’s characterization.
Y-not on September 16, 2011 at 11:05 AM
AAAAAATTTTTTTTTAAAAAAAAAAAACK WAAAAAAAAAATCH!
..I am so-o-o-o-o-o-o reporting Crowder!
The War Planner on September 16, 2011 at 12:29 PM
You MONSTER!
StevenCrowder on September 16, 2011 at 1:07 PM
I never got the impression that Perry was advocating doing away with social secutity immediately and in toto. I thought what he was advocating was trying to fix it, preserve it for those who are to go on it soon or are on it, and to provide other options for the younger folks. If the agenda driven pooiticians and terrified populace didn’t over react or distort that, we might actually help the situation.
I think that Perry has a good lead, because many, like me, are disgusted and disappointed by the other so-called republican candidates, the republican controlling elite, and democrats are obviously pandering and demagaging the issue.
As an aside, we are in this shape because Lyndon Johnson wanted guns AND butter for Vietnam. He could hide the financial problem of that war by including SS in the general budger. Gave the appearance of the US having more revenue than it did. The second major contributor you see on television every day — the commercials by law firms promising to get every deadbeat on disability and the liberal SSI judges that accept everybody. One of the candidates, I don’t remember who, stated that if they were elected president, they would clean out the disability house. That is the scam that has destroied the system.
Old Country Boy on September 16, 2011 at 1:24 PM
This is crap.
lexhamfox on September 16, 2011 at 2:12 PM
Hold on a minute here. TheRightMan on September 16, 2011 at 10:17 AM
So lemme get this straight. We can build multiple coast to coast highways, but a fence along the “whole Mexican border” is not feasible?
Explain.
Jason Coleman on September 16, 2011 at 2:23 PM
Thanks gg! That link is awesome. Hey Allah, can we get a thread?
bitsy on September 16, 2011 at 2:58 PM
Yeah, but a lot of those Republicans think it can hurt Perry with the Independents.
The thing is a lot of Republicans are not that excited about the Ponzi scheme rhetoric, but most want the program to be there. So maybe, they don’t really know what a ponzi scheme is.
I think they should ask Republicans if they agree with Perry that Social Security is unconstitutional and should be turned over to the states..assuming he still believes that himself.
Truthfully I think most Republicans have heard that kind of thing enough over the years that they just don’t take it that seriously. However, this is exactly the kind of stuff that Democrats will exploit and that Independents are disgusted with. Independents care about the economy…jobs…that is what they are interested in.
Terrye on September 16, 2011 at 4:17 PM
Has he actually carried it into the debate? I have not heard him give any kind of real answer in regards to what he wants to do with social security..just some vague walk back from his original position and a reference to reform of some kind.
Terrye on September 16, 2011 at 4:19 PM
I’m 49 and ditto.
It IS possible to save your own money if you get serious about it. My parents weren’t able to start saving for retirement until my youngest sister was out of college, so they were in their late 40s. They put away as much as they could until my Dad was forced to retire early when his systems analyst job was sent to India. Despite that, they’ve had a fairly comfortable retirement (except for dealing with Medicare, a long story). The big reason for their success is that they always believed in living within their means. Their only real debt was their mortgage which they paid off in exactly 30 years. For those out there who constantly refinance or buy one house after the other, or have lots of credit cards, you will have a harder time saving.
Now that our youngest is out of high school, we’ve started down the same path. Unfortunately, my husband didn’t come from a fiscally responsible family which has been a detriment to our finances over the years. We’re on the right path now and hope to be able to save for retirement as well as do some traveling.
That said, I sure wish SS was an individual account, I would have a nice chunk of change in it. Alas, I don’t expect for it to be fruitful in any meaningful way when I retire.
Common Sense on September 16, 2011 at 5:19 PM