Gallup: Four out of 10 Jewish voters now disapprove of Obama

posted at 6:05 pm on September 15, 2011 by Allahpundit

That’s eight-point jump from June, which is also when the rest of the country started to peel away from Hopenchange. A sputtering economy will do that. I’m going to politely decline to play the “maybe this is the year we win the Jewish vote!” game for the simple reason that I’ve played it and lost too many times before. Even so, it’s worth flagging this in anticipation of the showdown at the UN next Friday when the Palestinians call Obama’s bluff and demand official international recognition of statehood. Some of you have suggested in the comments lately that The One might not veto that demand if it comes before the Security Council. Eyeball this poll and rest assured: Oh yes he will.

Obama’s approval rating among Jewish Americans is also down to 55 percent – a five point drop from his approval rating in June, which stood at 60 percent.

Together, the rise in disapproval and dip in approval ratings are a net negative 11 point downturn for Obama among Jews…

“For a while now, I’ve been hearing from my constituents a lot of dissatisfaction with the statements on Israel that have been coming from the president and the administration,” Rep. Eliot Engel, (D-N.Y.) told the New York Times this week. “He’ll still get a majority of Jewish votes, but I would not be surprised to see that drop 10 to 20 points.”

Bill Kristol’s and Gary Bauer’s group, the Emergency Committee for Israel, has put out a five-point plan for how O can prove he’s a pro-Israel presidency. (Point two is to oppose the Palestinian statehood bid by cutting aid if they pursue it.) Maybe that’ll work, but Republicans have been adamantly, vociferously pro-Israel across the board for a decade at least and that hasn’t helped much on election day. The White House is taking no chances after the washout in NY-9, though: They’re doing triage with Jewish Democrats by launching an outreach program and circulating talking points about everything that Obama’s done for Israel. You can laugh at that latter point now, but at the rate the Arab Spring is deteriorating, there should be plenty of opportunities over the next 14 months for O to bank goodwill with pro-Israeli voters by coming to Netanyahu’s aid. We have some (not much, but some) leverage over Egypt and Turkey, Israel’s newest antagonists, so we can help back them off if things start to get hot. In fact, Netanyahu praised Obama recently for his help with the Cairo embassy standoff. There’ll be more where that came from before next November.

Exit question: I know Drudge is having fun with it, but is it really a big deal that Henry Waxman said after the NY-9 wipeout that Jewish voters there broke for the Republican in part because they “want to protect their wealth”? Someone sent me the link to that story two days ago highlighting that quote and I didn’t bat an eye because it seemed obvious to me that Waxman was talking about taxes. People are naturally sensitive to any accusation made about Jews and “wealth,” for understandable historical reasons, but all this guy was saying, I think, is that people tend to vote their economic interests and the NY-9 electorate is no different. Wealthier voters should vote GOP, whether Jewish or not, given the Democrats’ endless table-pounding about repealing the Bush tax cuts. Waxman’s simply nodding at that.

Breaking on Hot Air

Blowback

Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.

Trackbacks/Pings

Trackback URL

Comments

What are the other 6 waiting for?

Oil Can on September 15, 2011 at 6:08 PM

Yeah, I agree with your take on Waxman.

carbon_footprint on September 15, 2011 at 6:09 PM

Exit question: I know Drudge is having fun with it, but is it really a big deal that Henry Waxman said after the NY-9 wipeout that Jewish voters there broke for the Republican in part because they “want to protect their wealth”?

Consider what would happen if a Republican had said it.

slickwillie2001 on September 15, 2011 at 6:10 PM

Meanwhile, 55% suffer from battered wife Jew syndrome, and believe Bambi is just peachy.

xblade on September 15, 2011 at 6:11 PM

The new democratic outreach to Jews.
From SondraK

carbon_footprint on September 15, 2011 at 6:11 PM

Hey, isn’t there a vote coming up… somewhere in the Middle East?

While I am encouraged by the turn of events – wonder if it will force Bambis hand to vote No on Palestine… knowing his reelection chances would be doomed.

I have no problem with voters of any kind using their vote to make a point – or policy.

And Ill take less Jewish support for Reps with a No vote – if it means not allowing a Palestinian State to be recognized.

Odie1941 on September 15, 2011 at 6:11 PM

MUST BE BECAUSE OF THAT GOLD THAT OBAMA WANTS TO TAKE AWAY!!!
/Waxman

Apologetic California on September 15, 2011 at 6:11 PM

The fact that it is anywhere above 15% is bewildering.

angryed on September 15, 2011 at 6:12 PM

אױ װײ

Seven Percent Solution on September 15, 2011 at 6:12 PM

Exit question: I know Drudge is having fun with it, but is it really a big deal that Henry Waxman said after the NY-9 wipeout that Jewish voters there broke for the Republican in part because they “want to protect their wealth”?
Consider what would happen if a Republican had said it.

slickwillie2001 on September 15, 2011 at 6:10 PM

First accurate thing Waxy has ever said, for the worng reason.

Bottom line – I hope every voter is looking out for their wealth – because if so 2012 is a Rep landslide.

Odie1941 on September 15, 2011 at 6:13 PM

People are naturally sensitive to any accusation made about Jews and “wealth,” for understandable reasons, but all this guy was saying, I think, is that people tend to vote their economic interests and the NY-9 electorate is no different. Wealthier voters should vote GOP, whether Jewish or not, given the Democrats’ endless table-pounding about repealing the Bush tax cuts. Waxman’s simply nodding at that.

Except that when a Democrat says “wealth” they mean “ill-gotten wealth acquired by treading upon the poor and greedily squirreled away for selfish and socially unproductive uses, such as private jets”.

peski on September 15, 2011 at 6:15 PM

Exit question: I know Drudge is having fun with it, but is it really a big deal that Henry Waxman said after the NY-9 wipeout that Jewish voters there broke for the Republican in part because they “want to protect their wealth”?

Good Christ, who isn’t trying to protect their wealth??

Tim_CA on September 15, 2011 at 6:16 PM

This may be a stupid question, but why do jews support the Democrats in such large numbers? The Democratic party aligns themselves and “sympathizes” with the very people who want them dead….such as Jimmy Carter. And I suspect Obama’s views are not that far from Carter’s views, along with most of the major players of the party.

ramrants on September 15, 2011 at 6:16 PM

Oy! Those pesky Joooooooos! That’s what Zero gets for blaming them for everything that goes wrong from the Middle East to Brooklyn elections.

Philly on September 15, 2011 at 6:16 PM

If he wants to bolster his standing domestically and abroad, he should make an impromptu visit to the UN next week and put all those highly-touted rhetorical skills toward ripping Israel’s enemies a new one.

Lawdawg86 on September 15, 2011 at 6:19 PM

And these are not people know for having short memories, Champ.

Anybody see this?

http://jewishteaparty.blogspot.com/

VastRightWingConspirator on September 15, 2011 at 6:19 PM

Report all Jews to Attaaaaack Waaaaatch!

Mark1971 on September 15, 2011 at 6:23 PM

And? Disapprove doesn’t mean they think he is too left wing. It means he is has failed, in their eyes, to deliver the progressive goods.In fact, most liberals are disillusioned with obama. But don’t take away from that any crazy idea that they are thinking of not voting for him next year.

keep the change on September 15, 2011 at 6:24 PM

Sarah Silverman needs to make a new video I guess.

redeye on September 15, 2011 at 6:27 PM

Is being pro-Israel actually more important to evangelical Christians then it does to the average Jew? This might be why the GOP always loses the Jewish vote.

Mark1971 on September 15, 2011 at 6:28 PM

Even so, it’s worth flagging this in anticipation of the showdown at the UN next Friday when the Palestinians call Obama’s bluff and demand official international recognition of statehood.

I agree with you for the most part about the Jewish vote and definitely about Israel. Maybe in a few areas a percentage point or three will make a difference in vote totals, but the real difference will be that Obama has to actually pretend to be pro-Israel. The only thing that holds the feet of a narcissist to the fire is something that threatens his goals.

INC on September 15, 2011 at 6:29 PM

Too many Jews define “Jewish” as being the opposite of an Evangelical Christian conservative. And the easiest way to separate yourself from Evangelicals is to support big-government socialism, and a weak military. That’ll do it.

RBMN on September 15, 2011 at 6:33 PM

Maybe in a few areas a percentage point or three will make a difference in vote totals

INC on September 15, 2011 at 6:29 PM

Areas like Florida?

angryed on September 15, 2011 at 6:34 PM

The other 6 out of 10 must be under 35.

Coronagold on September 15, 2011 at 6:37 PM

Areas like Florida?

angryed on September 15, 2011 at 6:34 PM

Yes. I think Ed Koch made a difference when he campaigned for GWB in SE FL in 2004. There may be other places as well where a district can make a difference to state totals.

INC on September 15, 2011 at 6:40 PM

“I’m not a muslim , I’m jew” Barack O’donnell.

the_nile on September 15, 2011 at 6:42 PM

Maybe in a few areas a percentage point or three will make a difference in vote totals

INC on September 15, 2011 at 6:29 PM

Areas like Florida?

angryed on September 15, 2011 at 6:34 PM

. . . and Pennsylvania and New York and New Jersey and Virginia and Ohio and Michigan and Minnesota and Wisconsin and Colorado.

honsy on September 15, 2011 at 6:42 PM

Does Ron Paul approve of Jews who vote Republican?

portlandon on September 15, 2011 at 6:43 PM

Does Ron Paul approve of Jews who vote Republican?

portlandon on September 15, 2011 at 6:43 PM

FIFY

honsy on September 15, 2011 at 6:45 PM

Bill Kristol’s and Gary Bauer’s group, the Emergency Committee for Israel, has put out a five-point plan for how O can prove he’s a pro-Israel presidency. (Point two is to oppose the Palestinian statehood bid by cutting aid if they pursue it.)

Sorry Bill Kristol and Gary Bauer……EPIC Cocktail Party FAIL.

PappyD61 on September 15, 2011 at 6:46 PM

You would need to differentiate based on how “Jewish” the person is. The more religious the Jew is, the more he would be inclined to realize that Obama is as bad for Israel as he is for the United States.

sabbahillel on September 15, 2011 at 6:48 PM

…but all this guy was saying, I think, is that people tend to vote their economic interests and the NY-9 electorate is no different.

The eternal Allahpundit “in all fairness” benefit of the doubt to leftists and statists.

Dr. Carlo Lombardi on September 15, 2011 at 6:49 PM

the DOTUS will just push the usual buttons with the Jewish voters like he will rattle the James Byrd chains for the African American voters and they’ll fall right in line.

The GOP should play the game by nominating a 1/2 black, 1/2 Hispanic Jew from Jersey or NYC as the VP for Perry (since he already has won the nomination).

PappyD61 on September 15, 2011 at 6:49 PM

We’ve been saying it for decades, the Donks don’t care about Israel.

Tony737 on September 15, 2011 at 6:51 PM

Jewish Democrats by launching an outreach program and circulating talking points about everything that Obama’s done for Israel.

Meanwhile the double dealing Muslim in disguise is “reaching out” to the same Muslims in CAIR, Muslims this and muslim that, The “AAAArab Spriing” Pali’s and every other muslim that’s committed to the extermination…that’s right…EXTERMINATION OF JEWS in the ME.

Are the Jews that naive that they don’t realize that reaching out to their avowed murderers won’t work now…won’t work ever…and it didn’t work before either.

Have they gotten so soft that they fail to remember the boxcars that awaited them not that long ago? That the muslims are not one bit different than the SS was? And the Muslims are saying it out loud and in the open…unlike their former tormentor named Adolph.

Twana on September 15, 2011 at 6:58 PM

Four out of 10 Jewish voters now disapprove of Obama

That’s a good start, but there’s more work to be done to persuade at least 10% more. At any rate, these are motivated voters that O’Bama has lost.

honsy on September 15, 2011 at 6:58 PM

The other 6 out of 10 must be under 35.

Coronagold on September 15, 2011 at 6:37 PM

Are you talking IQ points?

Red State State of Mind on September 15, 2011 at 7:01 PM


play the game by nominating a 1/2 black, 1/2 Hispanic Jew

Jethro Moshe Ricardo Gonzalez…..or __________________________?

Twana on September 15, 2011 at 7:01 PM

I didn’t bat an eye because it seemed obvious to me that Waxman was talking about taxes. People are naturally sensitive to any accusation made about Jews and “wealth,” for understandable historical reasons, but all this guy was saying, I think, is that people tend to vote their economic interests and the NY-9 electorate is no different. Wealthier voters should vote GOP, whether Jewish or not, given the Democrats’ endless table-pounding about repealing the Bush tax cuts. Waxman’s simply nodding at that.

I disagree, he only referenced Jewish voters there broke for the Republican in part because they “want to protect their wealth”.
Another question, Did the Jewish voters not want to protect their wealth for the last 80 years?
Since he singled out the Jewish voters is he by omission saying other religious voters would not want to protect theirs?

IowaWoman on September 15, 2011 at 7:05 PM

here’s a hoot…barry’s fund raising in the salons of NYC (wall street) is struggling…so you too can have a small private din din with the prez at half-price

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/president-barack-obama-sale-50

r keller on September 15, 2011 at 7:10 PM

This may be a stupid question, but why do jews support the Democrats in such large numbers?

ramrants on September 15, 2011 at 6:16 PM

It dates back to the post-Civil War era, when the Democrats developed political machines in Northern cities to rebuild their party by gaining the allegiance of new immigrant communities through political patronage. The Republican Party of this period was identified specifically with Protestantism to a considerable extent and had little interest in the Catholics, Jews, and Orthodox Christians who now made up most immigrants. A majority of Jewish immigrants to the United States ended up in or near New York City, home of the oldest political machine, Tammany Hall, and like other non-Protestant immigrant groups in the cities (Italians, Catholic Irish, and Slavs) were absorbed by the Democratic machines.

By 1920, many Jews had left the Democrats for the Republican Party, and Warren G. Harding, buoyed by disgust after 8 years of Woodrow Wilson, may have been the one Republican presidential candidate ever to receive a majority of the Jewish vote. However, the Republicans used their restored power to pass immigration laws in 1921 and 1924 that not only severely restricted the number of immigrants allowed into the United States but also established quotas on a national basis specifically designed to further restrict immigration from southern and eastern Europe. This helped drive the ethnic groups from these areas back in the hands of the Democrats, especially Jews since many American Jews originating from eastern Europe (the large majority by this time) had close relatives back in the Old Country who were trapped under increasingly antisemitic regimes (e.g. Poland, the Soviet Union, Hungary, Romania). FDR managed to re-solidify Democrat support from these groups during the Depression.

By the 1970s, things had changed yet again, and in the 70s and 80s, Republican presidential candidates received as much 40% of the Jewish vote. Jimmy Carter is thought to have won less than half the Jewish vote in 1980 (Jews disproportionately voted for the third-party candidate, Anderson). Even though George HW Bush was known to be less-than-friendly towards Jews and Israel, he received an estimated 35% of the Jewish vote in 1988. He and Secretary of State James “F the Jews” Baker proceeded to turn US-Israeli relations to their worst state since the Eisenhower administration, and the main intra-party threat to Bush in 1992 came from Pat Buchanan, who was already lapsing into outright antisemitism, claiming among other things that the Gulf War against Iraq had been fought to defend Israel at the behest of a cabal of Jewish American intellectuals. Jewish support for Republicans collapsed in 1992 and then recovered only slowly before Obama arrived on the scene. Also, ever since the Religious Right became one of the pillars of the Republican Party in the ’80s, liberals have found it convenient to use the Religious Right as a bogeyman to scare certain groups (including, but not limited to, Jews) into voting Democrat. Unfortunately, these scare tactics work to a considerable extent.

DKCZ on September 15, 2011 at 7:12 PM

Jeaneane might say that this Waxman guy is a racist, straight up!!

Red State State of Mind on September 15, 2011 at 7:14 PM

Four out of ten? That’s it?

Dopenstrange on September 15, 2011 at 7:17 PM

1 out of 1 SouthernGent voters disapproves of Barack.

SouthernGent on September 15, 2011 at 7:23 PM

WTF is wrong with the other 6?

Dark Star on September 15, 2011 at 7:31 PM

What are the other 6 waiting for?

Oil Can on September 15, 2011 at 6:08 PM

When does Øbama’s support of Palestine over Israel get more obvious than now?

petefrt on September 15, 2011 at 7:36 PM

What are the other 6 waiting for?

Oil Can on September 15, 2011 at 6:08 PM

..a better deal?

(Before you start shouting, I am Jewish.)

The War Planner on September 15, 2011 at 7:43 PM

This may be a stupid question, but why do jews support the Democrats in such large numbers? The Democratic party aligns themselves and “sympathizes” with the very people who want them dead….such as Jimmy Carter. And I suspect Obama’s views are not that far from Carter’s views, along with most of the major players of the party.

ramrants on September 15, 2011 at 6:16 PM

Not stupid at all. As a man with a life long love of history I will have to tell you that is a big mystery to me. For crying out loud even in Israel there seems to be quite a few appeasers. I love Israel and they remind me of how the US was when we first went independent.

arnold ziffel on September 15, 2011 at 7:51 PM

Is being pro-Israel actually more important to evangelical Christians then it does to the average Jew? This might be why the GOP always loses the Jewish vote.

Mark1971 on September 15, 2011 at 6:28 PM

The main reason Jews still go for Democrats is that a minority of fundamentalist Christians scare the bejesus out of many Jews, for good historical reasons I might add.

All the rhetoric about America being a Christian nation doesn’t help either.

Romney will capture a large portion of the Jewish vote in 2012; Perry not so much.

haner on September 15, 2011 at 8:00 PM

Pat Robertson also definitely didn’t help with winning Jews into the Republican Party.

haner on September 15, 2011 at 8:04 PM

I have been very skeptical about the prospect of a Jewish Spring, but maybe it isn’t so far fetched. Bubula, he’s not what you thought he was when you voted for him in ’08. I know you thought you were doing a mitzvah but you put a schlemiel, not a mensch, in the WH.

MJBrutus on September 15, 2011 at 8:04 PM

haner on September 15, 2011 at 8:04 PM

Or Buchanan or a hundred other whackadoos. Meshugana, the lot of them.

MJBrutus on September 15, 2011 at 8:06 PM

4 out of 10 Jewish voters now sentient. Still shocking that it’s not 9 out of 10.

Basilsbest on September 15, 2011 at 8:17 PM

The eternal Allahpundit “in all fairness” benefit of the doubt to leftists and statists.

Dr. Carlo Lombardi on September 15, 2011 at 6:49 PM

Yep, BOR does it too; “I’m going to cut __ some slack on this…”

slickwillie2001 on September 15, 2011 at 8:20 PM

The main reason Jews still go for Democrats is that a minority of fundamentalist Christians scare the bejesus out of many Jews, for good historical reasons I might add.

All the rhetoric about America being a Christian nation doesn’t help either.

No one is more supportive of Jews than Christians. We love Jews. Our religion was founded by a Jew.

The atheist left has aligned themselves with Muslims. This is who rational Jews fear.

Basilsbest on September 15, 2011 at 8:22 PM

Jews are a very difficult constituency for Democrats.
Debbie Wasserman Schultz.

Barnestormer on September 15, 2011 at 8:28 PM

Basilsbest on September 15, 2011 at 8:22 PM

A. Knock off the atheist crap. Believe it or not, like it or not, many of us are conservative.

B. Knock off the Jews should love you back crap. People who run around spouting how this is a “Christian” nation do not endear themselves to us. And to many of us the Israel love is viewed as a mechugana, insincere desire for an end of the world Christ vs. Lucifer smack down.

MJBrutus on September 15, 2011 at 8:31 PM

the DOTUS will just push the usual buttons with the Jewish voters like he will rattle the James Byrd chains for the African American voters and they’ll fall right in line.

The GOP should play the game by nominating a 1/2 black, 1/2 Hispanic Jew from Jersey or NYC as the VP for Perry (since he already has won the nomination).

PappyD61 on September 15, 2011 at 6:49 PM

If only Sammy Davis Junior was a 50 year old Rethuglican again!

Ogabe on September 15, 2011 at 8:33 PM

fundamentalist Christians scare the bejesus out of many Jews, for good historical reasons I might add.

Really? What good reasons are those? Their prejudice against fundamentalist Christians is based on what? The Soviets persecuted the Jews, but the Jews have no problem with the communists. It’s a double standard. If you have a beef with Jews, for any reason, you are considered morally flawed. If a Jew has a beef with Christians, well then, you can’t blame them.

keep the change on September 15, 2011 at 8:34 PM

And to many of us the Israel love is viewed as a mechugana, insincere desire for an end of the world Christ vs. Lucifer smack down. MJBrutus on September 15, 2011 at 8:31 PM

Broadcasting insanity.

Basilsbest on September 15, 2011 at 8:34 PM

Basilsbest on September 15, 2011 at 8:34 PM

Tell that to Pat Robertson or Pat Buchanan.

MJBrutus on September 15, 2011 at 8:36 PM

Tell that to Pat Robertson or Pat Buchanan.
MJBrutus on September 15, 2011 at 8:36 PM

Your suggestion that they represent a broad spectrum of conservative Christians sounds like the kind of accusation that a left wing atheist demagogue would make.

Basilsbest on September 15, 2011 at 8:39 PM

MJBrutus on September 15, 2011 at 8:31 PM

Basilsbest isn’t saying anything I haven’t said myself — well, except for the atheist stuff.

Attila (Pillage Idiot) on September 15, 2011 at 8:57 PM

Gosh they are slow learners!

disa on September 15, 2011 at 8:59 PM

Basilsbest on September 15, 2011 at 8:39 PM

I spoke of the perception of Jewish voters, not the reality.

MJBrutus on September 15, 2011 at 9:16 PM

Gosh they are slow learners!

disa on September 15, 2011 at 8:59 PM

They’re a cautious people who identify strongly with the under privileged. Even when successful, Jewry carries the memory of the Holocaust and how things can change. Much of the Jewish identity is inseparable from our history.

MJBrutus on September 15, 2011 at 9:27 PM

but is it really a big deal that Henry Waxman said after the NY-9 wipeout that Jewish voters there broke for the Republican in part because they “want to protect their wealth”?

Yes, because he touched a stereotype

Would Waxman say black voters turned a district to protect the watermelon crop?

No, because he understands the taboos

Here’s the problem with Jewish voters. They aren’t associated with tacos, watermelons, or gambling casinos. They are associated with success. Unfortunately for them, their stereotype was: they were too good at survival, so the stereotype became the weapon of evil.

Waxman has a party filled with people he cannot talk about in terms of economics. He would have done better to blame it on voter fraud

entagor on September 15, 2011 at 9:34 PM

Just to put this in perspective. Jews have never given a majority vote to a Republican President. They even gave Walter Mondale 67% of their votes in 1984 when Reagan won 49 of 50 states. After Jews were liberated from concentration camps by troops under the leadership of General Eisenhower who did they vote for ? Adlai Stevenson in 2 elections by wide margins over Ike. Reagans 39% of the Jewish vote in 1980 was probably the best showing. Anyone who thinks the Jews will vote against Obama is delusional. Obama will win 65% of the Jewish Vote. Doesn’t matter what happens or who runs. The facts will not matter one bit.

Dennis D on September 15, 2011 at 10:12 PM

9 out of 10 American jews would vote for Hitler(D) before a Republican on ambiguous principle.

Rea1ityCheck on September 15, 2011 at 11:52 PM

We don’t need to win the Jewish vote, if we can keep their support for Obama under 70%, then Florida should be a sure thing.

Daemonocracy on September 16, 2011 at 12:18 AM

Daemonocracy on September 16, 2011 at 12:18 AM

We need every vote we can get. And not jut for President. Perhaps you’ve forgotten, so let me refresh your memory. States also elect Congress critters. Even in terms of electoral politics, NY and FL are vital for the Dems and if we can force them to time and spend resources there to hold them we are way ahead. Don’t be so cocky and short-sighted. We have an incumbent President to beat and a nation to turn around!

MJBrutus on September 16, 2011 at 7:56 AM

I see. So the Jews are troubled by Christian Evangelicals who say America is a Christian nation and thats why they vote Dem along with Rev Wright and Louis Farrahkan. I get it.

Dennis D on September 16, 2011 at 8:17 AM

Dennis D on September 16, 2011 at 8:17 AM

Thanks for being snide.

MJBrutus on September 16, 2011 at 9:47 AM

I have never understood the Logic of Jews supporting the Democrats who by in large would love to see Israel gone…..

the_ancient on September 16, 2011 at 9:49 AM

the_ancient on September 16, 2011 at 9:49 AM

History did not begin in 2008. For many decades the Dems looked very favorably on Israel. That is certainly the case from the ’60s until a decade or so back. Attitudes and habits do not change over night.

MJBrutus on September 16, 2011 at 9:52 AM