Bachmann: Gardasil causes “mental retardation”

posted at 10:45 am on September 13, 2011 by Ed Morrissey

Earlier today, I noted that Michele Bachmann finally scored points on Rick Perry by hitting him on his ties to Merck and linking that to the Gardasil mandate Perry imposed through executive order in Texas. This is a fair point on Perry’s record, even given his apology for pursuing the mandate through EO instead of through the legislature, and it’s not surprising that Bachmann was the candidate to first take advantage of the opening. (Mitt Romney passed a mandate on health insurance for all citizens of Massachusetts, which pretty much puts this issue out of reach for him.) However, Bachmann took a winning argument about the method and the wisdom of mandating a vaccination for a limited-spread virus and turned it into an anti-vaccination argument, especially in this post-debate argument on Fox with Greta van Susteren (via The Right Scoop):

There’s a woman who came up crying to me tonight after the debate. She said her daughter was given that vaccine. She told me her daughter suffered mental retardation as a result of that vaccine.

Huh? “Mental retardation” typically takes place in a pre- or neo-natal event. Autism becomes apparent in the first couple of years of life — and primarily affects boys. Gardasil vaccinations take place among girls between 9-12 years of age. Even assuming that this anecdote is arguably true, it wouldn’t be either “mental retardation” or autism, but brain damage.

The FDA has received no reports of brain damage as a result of HPV vaccines Gardasil and Cervarix.  Among the reports that correlate seriously adverse reactions to either, the FDA lists blood clots, Guillain-Barre Syndrome, and 68 deaths during the entire run of the drugs.  The FDA found no causal connection to any of these serious adverse events and found plenty of contributing factors to all — and all of the events are exceedingly rare.

The “mental retardation” argument is a rehash of the thoroughly discredited notion that vaccines containing thimerasol caused a rapid increase in diagnosed autism cases.  That started with a badly-botched report in Lancet that allowed one researcher to manipulate a ridiculously small sample of twelve cases in order to reach far-sweeping conclusions about thimerasol.  That preservative hasn’t been included in vaccines for years, at least not in the US, and the rate of autism diagnoses remain unchanged.

The most charitable analysis that can be offered in this case for Bachmann is that she got duped into repeating a vaccine-scare urban legend on national television.  It looks more like Bachmann sensed that she had won a point and wanted to go in for the kill, didn’t bother to check the facts, and didn’t care that she was stoking an anti-vaccination paranoid conspiracy theory, either.  Neither shines a particularly favorable light on Bachmann.

Rick Santorum took the correct position on the Gardasil issue.  We mandate certain vaccines in children because we mandate children be gathered for educational purposes for many years (in private or public schools), and certain diseases are easily communicable in those settings.  By mandating vaccinations against whooping cough, measles, and mumps, we are protecting children who would otherwise get exposed without any action on their part except compliance with the law.  That’s not true with HPV, and parents should decide for themselves whether to inoculate their sons and daughters with Gardasil or Cervarix.  If Perry wanted to make those inoculations more accessible, he could have crafted an opt-in system rather than forcing parents to opt out.

Update: Politico’s Ben Smith notes that Bachmann’s statement is getting some pushback in the health sector:

The alleged link between vaccination and mental disabilities — autism is the one frequently cited — has been repeatedly debunked, with the key research on the issue in a British journal withdrawn years ago. But the theory has lived on, and contributed to declining vaccine rates and — advocates for autistic children say — scientific distraction.

“Congresswoman Bachmann’s decision to spread fear of vaccines is dangerous and irresponsible,” said Evan Siegfried, a spokesman for the Global and Regional Asperger Syndrome Partnership. “There is zero credible scientific evidence that vaccines cause mental retardation or autism. She should cease trying to foment fear in order to advance her political agenda.”

“Irresponsible” is correct, and a bad tactical error, too.  Instead of highlighting Perry’s faulty actions in Texas, she made herself and (at best) her ignorance on the matter the story.

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Translation: UltimateBob likes his conservative women hot and silent… ;)

Bradky on September 13, 2011 at 11:07 AM

No, I just like them hot and without their feet in their mouths. :-)

UltimateBob on September 13, 2011 at 11:13 AM

Not very bright thing to do Michele, now drop out an endorse Rick Perry.

Sandybourne on September 13, 2011 at 11:13 AM

Amjean on September 13, 2011 at 11:01 AM

Before you go too far with those thoughts, consider how many children die after being vaccinated with the flu shot. Is there causality? By your rules, if the authorities rule “no causality” there must be causality, because, after all, the health officials are completely beholden to their industry.

That thought, of course, does a great injustice to them — more than just a few drugs have been taken off the market after having been found to have consistently damaging side effects.

There will always be a problem with vaccines from the standpoint of allergens, but the alternative is far worse.

In 1952 we had over 50,000 cases of polio — how many did we have this year?

unclesmrgol on September 13, 2011 at 11:14 AM

Not only did her daughter suffer mental retardation, but the woman has to wear her dead sister’s dentures b/c she can’t afford to get some of her own!!

Good grief. Now Bachmann sounds like that Shakakowski moron or whatever her name is.

JAM on September 13, 2011 at 11:14 AM

Ron Paul’s taxes have gone up since his local school district has increased property tax millages.

He is a moron or either thinks that the voters are morons. 130 embassies amount to military occupation?

Kermit on September 13, 2011 at 11:05 AM

Perry signed into law that businesses in Texas had to pay taxes based on their gross income, not net income which in effect jacked up the amounts they were forced to pay. That ain’t anecdotal either as I know for a fact someone who runs a private practice had their taxes go up by 35 grand thanks to that new law.

I still like Perry and would vote for him over Obama in a heartbeat. And I don’t think he’d pull a stunt like that as President. But it’s a part of his record and I’m amazed Mittens hasn’t seized on it.

Doughboy on September 13, 2011 at 11:14 AM

I’m not that shallow. But what’s up with that laugh? She sounds unhinged. Just imagine what the comedians could do with that. Maybe I was serious.
Stayright on September 13, 2011 at 11:09 AM

Another good point to consider, how would comedians treat Michele Bachmann; let me add that to the list of concerns.

Bishop on September 13, 2011 at 11:14 AM

When did republicans become the anti-vacine party?

bongo on September 13, 2011 at 11:14 AM

DrAllecon on September 13, 2011 at 11:04 AM

Autism diagnoses have gone up because people have become more educated on what constitutes being on the spectrum.
I was an early talker who had an advanced vocabulary @ a young age. No one was thinking Asperger’s-but when you add in the poor eye contact, inability to read body language, preference not to be touched etc…you get a classic Aspie.
When I was 4 they just thought I was different-but when I was 33 they had new info.
That’s why autism ‘rates’ are going up.

annoyinglittletwerp on September 13, 2011 at 11:14 AM

Perhaps someone should try to revive it. The main thing in 2012 is to unseat obambi and save our country, tearing each other apart on stupid issies just shows how shallow some of these folks are.

VegasRick on September 13, 2011 at 11:10 AM

AMEN

gophergirl on September 13, 2011 at 11:15 AM

She’s feeding the Trolls!

mile66 on September 13, 2011 at 11:15 AM

When I was young, John Birch Society members thought that fluoridation was a communist conspiracy, so I’ve seen it all before.

Even so, two wrongs don’t make a right, or something like that. It’s still disturbing that Perry wasn’t immunized against that liberal it’s-for-the-sake-of-the-children mentality.

Another compassionate conservative*?

*Yes, of course I’ll vote for him if he’s the nominee. You go into the voting booth with the conservative you have.

Drained Brain on September 13, 2011 at 11:15 AM

One of the most disturbing things about this clip is that Michelle Bachmann was approached by a random, hysterical, crying woman and she felt compelled to repeat her rant on national TV as if it we’re scientific evidence of something or other.

bitsy on September 13, 2011 at 11:17 AM

Bachmann: Gardasil causes “mental retardation
She says it tastes like licorice.

borntoraisehogs on September 13, 2011 at 11:18 AM

I admit I said it first, but it bears repeating: should he be the nominee, Perry will not be to the left of Obama on this issue. Now, since defeating Obama in the general election is the point of the whole exercise…

Knott Buyinit on September 13, 2011 at 11:18 AM

The more Perry fans sound like Palinistas/Ronulans/Mittens/etc, the more I shy away from him.

MadisonConservative on September 13, 2011 at 11:00 AM

Hey! I’m a Perry fan and you saw that I was not exactly showering him w/ praise on the open thread.

annoyinglittletwerp on September 13, 2011 at 11:19 AM

VegasRick: I miss Reagan. One of these candidates needs to stand up and remind all of the Reagan wannabees of his 11th Commandment.

I thought Perry’s “There-you-go-again” moment was pretty Reaganesque;

Perry: ‘Mitt, You Were Doing Pretty Good Before You Got to Talking Poker’

The crowd laughter said it all.

/pwned!

Terp Mole on September 13, 2011 at 11:19 AM

Lib media (CNN) successfully takes another one out.

balkanmom on September 13, 2011 at 11:19 AM

Even if true (which I doubt), all vaccines carry some inherent risk.

Most vaccines are made from artificially weakened microbes (viruses or bacteria) that actually cause the disease, which induce the body of the vaccinated person to produce antibodies against the disease without developing the disease. There could be some people with weak immune systems who could develop a mild form of the disease from a vaccine.

Most people have no problem with governments mandating children to be vaccinated against contagious diseases such as smallpox, measles, rubella, mumps, and diphtheria prior to entering school. Gov. Perry may have overstepped a limit by mandating a vaccine against a sexually-transmitted disease by executive order, but he WAS trying to protect young girls, and later admitted that this was a mistake, not necessarily to mandate the vaccine, but to bypass the state legislature.

Even if the woman who told Bachmann that her daughter was brain-damaged by the vaccine was telling the truth, Bachmann needs to get her facts straight. If the woman’s daughter didn’t live in Texas, how could this be blamed on Perry? Did the girl get the vaccine VOLUNTARILY in another state, and should the vaccine manufacturer be held accountable? Is this more of a failure of the FDA to adequately test these vaccines than anything to be held against Perry?

Perry could put this issue to bed by (1) admitting that ordering a vaccination by Executive Order was a mistake, and (2) pledging that, as President, he would not mandate anything by Executive Order that had not been passed by Congress.

Steve Z on September 13, 2011 at 11:20 AM

One of the most disturbing things about this clip is that Michelle Bachmann was approached by a random, hysterical, crying woman and she felt compelled to repeat her rant on national TV as if it we’re scientific evidence of something or other.

bitsy on September 13, 2011 at 11:17 AM

Hopelly this will finish off her candidacy.
BTw: Palin then tweeted the same accusation-so I’ve heard.
If true-then it speaks very badly of Palin.

annoyinglittletwerp on September 13, 2011 at 11:21 AM

Michelle Bachmann got on my last ******** nerve with that one.

I was pretty upset with Perry when he pushed the EO out, upset enough to hold my nose and vote for Kay RINO Hutchinson in the Republican Governor’s primary against him (yes I live in Texas).

NEVERTHELESS…..

Her anti-vaccine pandering may get her a few points in the anti-science crowd, but HPV vaccinations DO NOT CAUSE MENTAL RETARDATION, except possibly among presidential candidates.

Also, note to other republican candidates: It’s pretty damn hard to build a fence in the middle of a river. And building a fence won’t work unless you man it. You people want to opine on border issues come down here and actually LOOK AT THE DAMN THING.

jnials on September 13, 2011 at 11:21 AM

Admitted was a mistake…then went on to defend by talking about how he is “for life”…as if anyone who disagrees with him on the issue is “for death”.

I also noticed Perry’s habit of trying to demonize those with opposing views. There are valid arguments (aside from Bachmann’s craziness) about why the governor should not have attempted to impose the Gardasil mandate in the way he did. People should be free to articulate those objections without being characterized as being against “life.”

Perry used a similar tactic when the topic of illegal immigration came up. He sneered that he and the Texas legislature were willing to give a (taxpayer-funded) break to illegal alien college students, and that “we don’t care what their last names are” or some such language — the implication being that anyone who objects to illegal aliens receiving taxpayer-funded benefits is only doing so because they are an anti-hispanic bigot.

I don’t know who is helping Perry with his debate preparations, but if they believe that demonizing conservative views is a good strategy, Perry won’t be a front-runner much longer.

AZCoyote on September 13, 2011 at 11:21 AM

Altho, I must admit that MB was over the top on this one.
However, perhaps a parent did say that to her and she was
just repeating it. LOL!!!!

Amjean on September 13, 2011 at 11:01 AM

You don’t haphazardly repeat unconfirmed claims about FDA-approved medicine on national television. Especially not when you’re running for president.

amerpundit on September 13, 2011 at 11:07 AM

You are probably right; MB should have talked about the 68 deaths!

Amjean on September 13, 2011 at 11:21 AM

Bachmann: Gardasil causes “mental retardation
She says it tastes like licorice lead paint chips.

borntoraisehogs on September 13, 2011 at 11:18 AM

For what it’s worth…

E L Frederick (Sniper One) on September 13, 2011 at 11:22 AM

Not very bright thing to do Michele, now drop out an endorse Rick Perry.

Sandybourne on September 13, 2011 at 11:13 AM

And therein lies the problem. “This guy is no good because – blah, blah, blah – but I’m going to support him antway”. Jeez, what a ringing endorsement!

VegasRick on September 13, 2011 at 11:22 AM

Lib media (CNN) successfully takes another one out.

balkanmom on September 13, 2011 at 11:19 AM

I’m sorry, what?

This was all Bachmann. Blitzer asked about Gardasil. He did not ask Michele Bachmann to engage in anti-vaccine conspiracy theory or shoot herself in the foot.

Can’t blame the media for this one, sorry.

KingGold on September 13, 2011 at 11:23 AM

Steve Z on September 13, 2011 at 11:20 AM

I haven’t seen, but have heard that Perry did admit it was a mistake. As someone else said….he took his lumps and didn’t go off blaming anyone else.

I agree. No mandates, unless they are per a true health crisis.

Off topic here, but just saw this at AT. If anyone’s interested. I really can’t make it out, but am curious if anyone else can?

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2011/09/what_is_michelle_obama_saying_during_the_911_flag_ceremony.html

It kinda looks like that’s what she’s saying, but when given it up front, I don’t trust my judgement. I’m also no lip reader. LOL

capejasmine on September 13, 2011 at 11:23 AM

Steve, Perry did admit mistake and they still bashed

cmsinaz on September 13, 2011 at 11:24 AM

Also, note to other republican candidates: It’s pretty damn hard to build a fence in the middle of a river. And building a fence won’t work unless you man it.

The Chinese managed, as did the Romans. Americans can do it too.

Bishop on September 13, 2011 at 11:24 AM

Lib media (CNN) successfully takes another one out.

balkanmom on September 13, 2011 at 11:19 AM

Blaming the media for a candidate’s own mistakes and idiotic move?

KingGold on September 13, 2011 at 11:24 AM

Lib media (CNN) successfully takes another one out.

balkanmom on September 13, 2011 at 11:19 AM

No. Bachmann did it to herself. Someone mentioned it was an unforced error. Worse than Bill Buckner.

ConservativePartyNow on September 13, 2011 at 11:24 AM

One has got to be careful. Any plant or supporter of another candidate can flat out make up a story to her at such an event. You can’t just run with it. Gotta check it out first.

Isn’t that sort of what’s happening here? The study was proved to be false so every incidental report of mental problems following the drug must also be false? Bachman should never have mentioned it without checking it out first. Agreed. Yet we pile on without knowing anything about the woman or her daughter. At some point it starts to sound like the enviromaniacs: “The science is settled, so shut up about your daughter, lady!”

jdp629 on September 13, 2011 at 11:24 AM

BTw: Palin then tweeted the same accusation-so I’ve heard.
If true-then it speaks very badly of Palin.

annoyinglittletwerp on September 13, 2011 at 11:21 AM

Quit making stuff up…..

idesign on September 13, 2011 at 11:25 AM

One of the most disturbing things about this clip is that Michelle Bachmann was approached by a random, hysterical, crying woman and she felt compelled to repeat her rant on national TV as if it we’re scientific evidence of something or other.

bitsy on September 13, 2011 at 11:17 AM

Sort of like when Shep Smith, reporter for the paragon of truth and justice – fox news, repeated false reports of what was happening in the superdome after Katrina.
Left a mark on Bush that sticks to this day….

Bradky on September 13, 2011 at 11:25 AM

She said someone came up to her and told her that. This gives her an out.

jeffn21 on September 13, 2011 at 11:25 AM

Not a good moment for Bachmann, but I still don’t understand how Perry thought a mandate was a good idea. This may not pose a problem against the current competition, but it troubles me.

littleguy on September 13, 2011 at 11:26 AM

Hence why Bachman will continue to fade. Does she realize she’s running for President? She continues to prove that she is unelectable with statements like these. The Obama/Chicago political machine and their allies in the media will make mince meat of her in the general election.

ncconservative on September 13, 2011 at 11:26 AM

Blaming the media for a candidate’s own mistakes and idiotic move?

KingGold on September 13, 2011 at 11:24 AM

Now now you know very well that Palin patented that tactic and no one else can ever use it…

Bradky on September 13, 2011 at 11:26 AM

Also, note to other republican candidates: It’s pretty damn hard to build a fence in the middle of a river. And building a fence won’t work unless you man it. You people want to opine on border issues come down here and actually LOOK AT THE DAMN THING.

jnials on September 13, 2011 at 11:21 AM

Not counting the lakes that were built through international treaties and a beautiful national park that has federal laws against such eyesores as fences.

cozmo on September 13, 2011 at 11:27 AM

Also, note to other republican candidates: It’s pretty damn hard to build a fence in the middle of a river.

I don’t get this argument. Wouldn’t we just build it on our side of the river?

And building a fence won’t work unless you man it

Hell of a lot easier to man a fence than an open border.

Missy on September 13, 2011 at 11:28 AM

“Irresponsible” is correct, and a bad tactical error, too. Instead of highlighting Perry’s faulty actions in Texas, she made herself and (at best) her ignorance on the matter the story.

This has become a pattern for her.

scalleywag on September 13, 2011 at 11:28 AM

Hopefully this will finish off her candidacy.
BTw: Palin then tweeted the same accusation-so I’ve heard.
If true-then it speaks very badly of Palin.

annoyinglittletwerp on September 13, 2011 at 11:21 AM

Just visited her web site… she thinks she won last night. I’m sure they all did… but she is showing no signs of slowing down.

She needs to drop out for multiple reasons.

Santorum, Bachmann, Hunstman, Paul all need to considered lightening up the stage. I don’t think Newt has a chance, but he is very good at making the case against Obama… Cain is a longshot too, but with the others dropping out I think his “business” voice becomes more important.

I wish Romney would drop out, but I can’t imagine that (and he does have decent support)… the next debate should be Mittens, Perry, Cain and Newt… that would be one worth watching.

mankai on September 13, 2011 at 11:28 AM

The fact that this site itself is effectively her brainchild is, I believe, relevant.

[KingGold on September 13, 2011 at 11:11 AM]

So guilt by association is your position? Does that make you guilty, too?

Dusty on September 13, 2011 at 11:29 AM

Also, note to other republican candidates: It’s pretty damn hard to build a fence in the middle of a river. And building a fence won’t work unless you man it.

The Chinese managed, as did the Romans. Americans can do it too.

Bishop on September 13, 2011 at 11:24 AM

For once I agree with you!

Amjean on September 13, 2011 at 11:29 AM

BTw: Palin then tweeted the same accusation-so I’ve heard.
If true-then it speaks very badly of Palin.

annoyinglittletwerp on September 13, 2011 at 11:21 AM

Time and date of tweet?

ConservativePartyNow on September 13, 2011 at 11:30 AM

Of course she did it herself.
But, it was a lib set up.

balkanmom on September 13, 2011 at 11:30 AM

BTw: Palin then tweeted the same accusation-so I’ve heard.
If true-then it speaks very badly of Palin.

annoyinglittletwerp on September 13, 2011 at 11:21 AM

Time and date of tweet?

ConservativePartyNow on September 13, 2011 at 11:30 AM

twerp is lying.

the_nile on September 13, 2011 at 11:31 AM

I don’t get this argument. Wouldn’t we just build it on our side of the river?

Missy on September 13, 2011 at 11:28 AM

Thereby taking some of the most fertile farmland in the country out of production. Would the government take it through imminent domain? How wide of a swath would the government require to do this?

Be sure to by stock in boat companies if before the fence ever gets built.

A two thousand mile fence is another one of those things that sounds better in the abstract than it does in reality.

cozmo on September 13, 2011 at 11:32 AM

Admitted was a mistake…then went on to defend by talking about how he is “for life”…as if anyone who disagrees with him on the issue is “for death”.

MadisonConservative on September 13, 2011 at 11:00 AM

You are being generous. He came right out and said that those who disagreed with his mandate were sacraficing lives on the altar of political expedience.

You read his statement and it sounds like he was stopping some major pandemic running rampant in our young. A few of his defenders here at HotAir act like they agree, and yet, the CDC stats show that it is nothing of the sort.

From the CDC: All women are at risk for cervical cancer. It occurs most often in women over age 30. Each year, approximately 12,000 women in the United States get cervical cancer.†
The human papillomavirus (HPV) is the main cause of cervical cancer. HPV is a common virus that is passed from one person to another during sex. At least half of sexually active people will have HPV at some point in their lives, but few women will get cervical cancer.”

His mandate just doesn’t make sense to me. Nothing adds up. At the time he did it, the vaccine was so new…there were real questions about the safety…It was fast tracked through trials… efficacy tests hadn’t been done on children under 15, yet he mandated it for 11 yr. olds…he did this in a state of conservatives…Not only people who hate the nanny state, but religious conservatives, too. He had to know it was going to create problems, didn’t he? Didn’t he do the research on the vaccine and the disease stats and see that people had legitimate concerns (whether you trust the FDA now or not, at that time, even one of the lead researchers on the vaccine questioned the safety and efficacy)?

And to simply write off his relationship with Merck…

At best, this issue calls into question his judgment. At best…

Why did he do this? And why are so many willing to just brush it off, because he now says he shouldn’t have done it?

Read his statement. He put in the full press to mandate this. Why?

pannw on September 13, 2011 at 11:32 AM

btw – for those of you NOW saying that MB isn’t qualified to
be president – Most of us knew this all along.

She is Mitt’s attack dog. I hope she stays in for awhile.
She makes it entertaining, Newt makes it real by sticking to
the issues, Ron Paul makes it crazy and the rest are in a slugfest.

And Palin gets as much press as anyone else just sitting on
the sidelines.

Heard much about what Rudy thinks?
What about what Chris Christie thinks?

Ha! This is so entertaining.

Amjean on September 13, 2011 at 11:32 AM

Notice to all GOP candidates: VACCINES ARE GOOD

bloggless on September 13, 2011 at 11:33 AM

So MB has become a Jenny McCarthy-ite?

catmman on September 13, 2011 at 11:34 AM

Quit making stuff up…..

idesign on September 13, 2011 at 11:25 AM

Notice the’…so I’ve heard. IF’
I’ll write s l o w l y so you understand.

IF she tweeted that it will and should reflect badly on her.
IF.

annoyinglittletwerp on September 13, 2011 at 11:35 AM

What’s next?

She’ll come out as an advocate for raw foods and not bathing your kids?

catmman on September 13, 2011 at 11:36 AM

Would be nice to hear what Tina Korbe thinks about Bachmann, or what Tinas friends think…

the_nile on September 13, 2011 at 11:37 AM

annoyinglittletwerp on September 13, 2011 at 11:14 AM

Yes, the rates of autism (and AS) are going up for many reasons, not the least of which is better education on the part of physicians and parents. More cases are being caught, and earlier on. What used to be considered “quirky” or “shy” is now being looked at more seriously. (don’t get me wrong, there are plenty of people who are simply quirky or shy who don’t have autism or AS, I just mean that the conditions are being taken more seriously now and less children are falling through the cracks.)

I just attended a 4 day seminar at Yale on the subject as well as it being close to me personally, there’s a lot of amazing things being done now.

My only point to Ed was to further reinforce that immunizations have nothing to do with autism (which is also what he said) but just wanted to correct the very small error that autism rates hadn’t increased with the removal of thimerasol (they in fact increased with the removal further beclowning those who stated otherwise)

DrAllecon on September 13, 2011 at 11:37 AM

The Chinese managed, as did the Romans. Americans can do it too.

Bishop on September 13, 2011 at 11:24 AM

Heh, 2,100 years for China to build theirs
72 miles for Hadrian’s
In some places, neither is much of a wall.

cozmo on September 13, 2011 at 11:37 AM

Someone accidentally left the “stupid” knob turned all the way up on our candidates.

Otherwise they would be attacking President Zero instead of Perry. Perry’s screwup over HPV should have occupied all of five minutes of debate time and discussion afterward. He screwed up and admitted it. End of story.

Mittens screwed up and won’t admit it. No story. Go figure. But that shouldn’t be a big deal either. Not in the debates.

Where on earth was any discussion last night about President Downgrade’s “jobs” bill? I didn’t hear any. That’s what the debates should be used for: To discuss why BO is a loser and ANY of the candidates on stage would be better. It really should be a platform for showcasing conservative policy differences with the present admin.

Seriously, with the economy in the toilet for YEARS why on earth is anyone focusing on a social issue in Texas?

The stupid infighting helps no one. It just makes the Republican brand look stupid. Again.

trapeze on September 13, 2011 at 11:38 AM

There are separation barriers all over the world. I saw South Korea’s just a few months ago. Yes, they’re guarding water approaches as well as tunnels, since the North Koreans have dug a number of those over the years.

Drained Brain on September 13, 2011 at 11:38 AM

These vaccine conspiracy nuts are a public health nightmare. Congrats and running the best and the brightest, GOP!

ernesto on September 13, 2011 at 11:39 AM

So MB has become a Jenny McCarthy-ite?

catmman on September 13, 2011 at 11:34 AM

You mentioned THAT WOMAN’S name!
Grrrr!
*Hey Jenny you worthless tw*t! If you’re reading this…I’m autistic because I was a preemie who spent her last 3 days in the womb being oxygen deprived. Stupid ‘female dog’!*

annoyinglittletwerp on September 13, 2011 at 11:39 AM

Notice the’…so I’ve heard. IF’
I’ll write s l o w l y so you understand.

IF she tweeted that it will and should reflect badly on her.
IF.

annoyinglittletwerp on September 13, 2011 at 11:35 AM

Why would you post a rumor?

Your PDS is showing…

idesign on September 13, 2011 at 11:40 AM

Thereby taking some of the most fertile farmland in the country out of production. Would the government take it through imminent domain? How wide of a swath would the government require to do this?

Those are good questions. But some of those landowners might be willing to take the risk. Even if a fence on our side of the river is a nonstarter, there’s still 800 miles of non-river open border over desert wasteland.

A two thousand mile fence is another one of those things that sounds better in the abstract than it does in reality.

Maybe. The stretches of fence that have been built are effective, as I understand it. Why not expand on that model, even if we don’t fence the entire border?

At any rate, let’s have the debate. Let’s not cut it off with cute comments about ladder sales and building fences in the middle of rivers.

Missy on September 13, 2011 at 11:40 AM

So guilt by association is your position? Does that make you guilty, too?

Dusty on September 13, 2011 at 11:29 AM

Guilt by association is not my angle here. The question is – is Malkin going to be criticized for doing nearly the exact same thing that Bachmann’s doing, or is she still protected by the aegis of this site?

Because if you ask me, it seems that Michelle ought to be called on a few more things.

KingGold on September 13, 2011 at 11:41 AM

And to simply write off his relationship with Merck…

pannw on September 13, 2011 at 11:32 AM

What “relationship”? An aide who used to lobby for Merck (I think), and a $5K campaign donation? Gee, the ties…they run deep./

I don’t know many that are brushing this off because he now says the EO was a mistake. But, what else do you want here? Does this error in judgment, that HE himself has acknowledged, disqualify him from higher office? Is an EO about a vaccine more important than the economy and other pressing issues?

changer1701 on September 13, 2011 at 11:41 AM

DrAllecon on September 13, 2011 at 11:37 AM

Thanks for your explanation!

annoyinglittletwerp on September 13, 2011 at 11:42 AM

My 10 year old son is autistic and type 1 diabetic and this whole idea of the cause being related to vaccines has no scientific foundation. Believe me, as a single dad with full custody of my two children for years I was searching for the cause and relationship between the two illnesses. It seems that it is more likely to be auto-immune related (see Dr. Faustmann research). What a waste of time and emotion on something where there is no scientific foundation. For Bachmann to play this card just pisses me off. What’s her jobs record again? Isn’t that what we should be focused on in this election?

kerrhome on September 13, 2011 at 11:43 AM

Notice the’…so I’ve heard. IF’
I’ll write s l o w l y so you understand.

IF she tweeted that it will and should reflect badly on her.
IF.

annoyinglittletwerp on September 13, 2011 at 11:35 AM

That a heck of a walk back, twerp.

You said that Palin tweeted something that caused you to lose Respect for her.

She didn’t.

You are caught in a lie.

Own it.

portlandon on September 13, 2011 at 11:43 AM

She got the mind set that if government does anything it must be bad.

One wonder how many of her children got the vaccines when they where young. And when there is a outbreak at school from all the others who did not get vaccinated 10 years ago they can live on the morals that the government is evil regardless of what they do.

Cheese has fell off the cracker.

tjexcite on September 13, 2011 at 11:44 AM

Why would you post a rumor?

Your PDS is showing…

idesign on September 13, 2011 at 11:40 AM
Go over to yesterday’s open thread. What I wrote was posted by many others before me.
So clue me in-did Mrs, Palin tweet agreement or not?

annoyinglittletwerp on September 13, 2011 at 11:44 AM

portlandon on September 13, 2011 at 11:43 AM

If she didn’t say it I sincerely apologize for my comment.
I’m still voting for Perry in the primary but will vote for Palin if she’s the nominee.

annoyinglittletwerp on September 13, 2011 at 11:46 AM

Read his statement. He put in the full press to mandate this. Why?

pannw on September 13, 2011 at 11:32 AM

Because it costs almost $400 for the full course of vaccinations, and insurance won’t pay for it unless it is mandated by the state. So we have a situation where wealthier people can afford to vaccinate their daughters but poorer people can’t. Getting cancer should not be a matter of how much money your parents have.

rockmom on September 13, 2011 at 11:47 AM

Thanks for your explanation!

annoyinglittletwerp on September 13, 2011 at 11:42 AM

Sure, anytime. :)

DrAllecon on September 13, 2011 at 11:47 AM

What’s all this hysteria about vagicil?

Does it cause drain bramage to men who come in contact with it?

Holy crud.

rickyricardo on September 13, 2011 at 11:48 AM

Also, note to other republican candidates: It’s pretty damn hard to build a fence in the middle of a river.

I don’t get this argument. Wouldn’t we just build it on our side of the river?

And building a fence won’t work unless you man it

Hell of a lot easier to man a fence than an open border.

Missy on September 13, 2011 at 11:28 AM

Great points!!!!

Amjean on September 13, 2011 at 11:48 AM

I’m still voting for Perry in the primary but will vote for Palin if she’s the nominee.

annoyinglittletwerp on September 13, 2011 at 11:46 AM

You and me both.

By the way, how as the GOParty last night? Those Texas GOPers are a lively bunch!

portlandon on September 13, 2011 at 11:48 AM

If she didn’t say it I sincerely apologize for my comment.
I’m still voting for Perry in the primary but will vote for Palin if she’s the nominee.

annoyinglittletwerp on September 13, 2011 at 11:46 AM

Thank you.

idesign on September 13, 2011 at 11:49 AM

At any rate, let’s have the debate. Let’s not cut it off with cute comments about ladder sales and building fences in the middle of rivers.

Missy on September 13, 2011 at 11:40 AM

But that is the debate. Throughout history, it has always been easier to defeat fortifications than it has been to construct them. China’s wall didn’t work, Hadrian’s didn’t work. Korea and Israel are special cases with a lot of money, and much shorter lengths to keep them viable. Tunnels, ladders and explosives have already been used on parts of the existing US/Mexico fence. There is also constant two way traffic over the border. Many Mexican citizens cross the border every day to shop, work and visit the US. How can a person tell the difference between a visitor and an illegal immigrant?

cozmo on September 13, 2011 at 11:49 AM

Go over to yesterday’s open thread. What I wrote was posted by many others before me.
So clue me in-did Mrs, Palin tweet agreement or not?

annoyinglittletwerp on September 13, 2011 at 11:44 AM

Palins latest tweet was on 9/11.

If you’re on the internet you can check it out…

http://twitter.com/#!/SarahPalinUSA

You know you’re a lying smear artist.

the_nile on September 13, 2011 at 11:50 AM

Because it costs almost $400 for the full course of vaccinations, and insurance won’t pay for it unless it is mandated by the state. So we have a situation where wealthier people can afford to vaccinate their daughters but poorer people can’t. Getting cancer should not be a matter of how much money your parents have.

rockmom on September 13, 2011 at 11:47 AM

Do you realize you might just as well be arguing in favor of Obamacare with that line of argument?

Drained Brain on September 13, 2011 at 11:51 AM

no problem- like the gay, the mental retardation can be prayed away.

mittens on September 13, 2011 at 11:51 AM

Kind of on/off topic…

When is the next debate – it’s on FOX right?

gophergirl on September 13, 2011 at 11:51 AM

There are separation barriers all over the world. I saw South Korea’s just a few months ago. Yes, they’re guarding water approaches as well as tunnels, since the North Koreans have dug a number of those over the years.

Drained Brain on September 13, 2011 at 11:38 AM

Another common sense great post!

Amjean on September 13, 2011 at 11:52 AM

[Ron Paul] is a moron or either thinks that the voters are morons. 130 embassies amount to military occupation?

Kermit on September 13, 2011 at 11:05 AM

A. Ron Paul is a moron. A nearly complete imbecile who has stumbled upon a couple of points for good government and leveraged them into making a lot of ignorant young men believe that he is not a moron.

Jaibones on September 13, 2011 at 11:52 AM

gophergirl on September 13, 2011 at 11:51 AM

Sept 22, in FL on Fox

kerrhome on September 13, 2011 at 11:52 AM

no problem- like the gay, the mental retardation can be prayed away.

mittens on September 13, 2011 at 11:51 AM

So one can pray the gay away?

Tell that to the poor, straight rehearsal pianist for an off Broadway show.

He mocks your religious superstition as ineffective.

rickyricardo on September 13, 2011 at 11:53 AM

Sept 22, in FL on Fox

kerrhome on September 13, 2011 at 11:52 AM

Thank you very much!

gophergirl on September 13, 2011 at 11:54 AM

rickyricardo on September 13, 2011 at 11:53 AM

I think the person you quoted was saying that it cannot be prayed away.

kerrhome on September 13, 2011 at 11:55 AM

So one can pray the gay away?

Tell that to the poor, straight rehearsal pianist for an off Broadway show.

He mocks your religious superstition as ineffective.

rickyricardo on September 13, 2011 at 11:53 AM

Google “snarkasm”.

the_nile on September 13, 2011 at 11:55 AM

And while we’re at it: Michelle Bachmann is a lovely woman, full of energy and enthusiasm, and I wish her well. But many of her ideas for the proper way to conduct a political campaign are … unsound. And this fundamental problem leads her to often appearing as a moron.

She should stop this silliness and return to St. Paul to defend her House seat and continue her good work leading the Tea Party voters to positive activism in search of fiscal sanity. And may this return to her previous post in life prevent further episodes of moronic speech.

Jaibones on September 13, 2011 at 11:56 AM

These vaccine conspiracy nuts are a public health nightmare. Congrats and running the best and the brightest, GOP!

ernesto on September 13, 2011 at 11:39 AM

And congrats to you, running your errr ummm errr aaaaaaaah errrrrrr ummmm telepromter reading errrrrrr ummmmmmm errrrrrrr aaaaaaaaah Obama!

capejasmine on September 13, 2011 at 11:56 AM

We knew you were nuts. You can stop proving it MB.

MJBrutus on September 13, 2011 at 11:57 AM

Bachmann is not going to be nominated nor elected. It’s time for her to stand aside and be quiet before she does any more damage to the the public’s understanding of Republicanism.

Mason on September 13, 2011 at 11:57 AM

Wow, this lineup of clowns is the best we can do?

dpierson on September 13, 2011 at 11:57 AM

There are separation barriers all over the world. I saw South Korea’s just a few months ago. Yes, they’re guarding water approaches as well as tunnels, since the North Koreans have dug a number of those over the years.

Drained Brain on September 13, 2011 at 11:38 AM

Another common sense great post!

Amjean on September 13, 2011 at 11:52 AM

Considering the US-Mexico border is 1800 miles longer than the DMZ i’m not so sure that is a common sense solution…

Bradky on September 13, 2011 at 11:58 AM

How can a person tell the difference between a visitor and an illegal immigrant?

cozmo on September 13, 2011 at 11:49 AM

I guess we could start by asking them, should they come into police custody.

littleguy on September 13, 2011 at 11:58 AM

She lost me completely last night. She was never my first choice candidate but I was not opposed to the idea of her being the Republican candidate; now I am. She came across as reckless and her attacks were borderline demagogic. There is an air of stubborn intractability that seems to have more to do with her own ambition than advancing the conservative cause. I get that she is steadfast to her principles but you have to be able to win people over in your presentation of those principles.

PrincipleStand on September 13, 2011 at 12:00 PM

Considering the US-Mexico border is 1800 miles longer than the DMZ i’m not so sure that is a common sense solution…

Bradky on September 13, 2011 at 11:58 AM

How long is I10?

littleguy on September 13, 2011 at 12:00 PM

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