Video: Perry doubles down on in-state tuition for illegals in Texas

posted at 10:33 pm on September 12, 2011 by Allahpundit

Another clip via Breitbart TV, which did a bang-up job tonight of posting highlights almost as fast as they happened. Were these the only actual boos (or maybe they’re grumbles of dissent) that Perry got? My thinking on this subject has been that if we’re willing to vote for Bush and McCain, we’re willing to forgive any potential nominee their heresies on immigration — especially since Perry’s position here likely improves his electability by attracting Latino voters in the general. But maybe I’m wrong. None of tonight’s “problem” issues — Social Security, Gardasil, the Texas DREAM Act — is necessarily fatal on its own, but together I think they’ve raised enough doubts to erode some of the white-knight stature he enjoyed when he first declared. Ace’s co-blogger Drew said it well: “I want to like Perry but if you watched these things & didn’t know who was who, no one would ID Perry as the double digit frontrunner.” Indeed. And I think his biggest problem tonight may be less the substance of the attacks than the fact that they came from Bachmann, who’s probably back in the race (at least in Iowa) and may be able to keep Perry from breaking away. A good night for Romney.

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No, because you still equate being a productive member of society with having a bachelor’s degree. It’s not necessary. Why not send them to community college? Why not vo-tech? It’d be cheaper. It sounds like the goal is a path to citizenship, which as you said, is easier under current rules with a bachelor’s degree.

alwaysfiredup on September 13, 2011 at 2:29 AM

I said they can go to college instead (i.e. community college).

smfoushee on September 13, 2011 at 2:36 AM

smfoushee on September 13, 2011 at 2:32 AM

I don’t want illegals to become us citizens. The most I could take is that they become permanent residents if they jump through certain hoops, but even that is iffy. Their children will get automatic citizenship and they will get treated at ERs, and I think that’s plenty generous.

alwaysfiredup on September 13, 2011 at 2:36 AM

No, we’re treating them like Texans.

smfoushee on September 13, 2011 at 2:34 AM

Which they’re not. Heh.

Anyway…it’s late, and I need to sleep. Make a run for the border before they build that fence to keep us from fleeing Mexico. Ron Paul warned you.

MadisonConservative on September 13, 2011 at 2:37 AM

What immigrants live off the welfare state? In most states immigrants aren’t eligible for welfare benefits. Certainly they aren’t in mine.

alwaysfiredup on September 13, 2011 at 2:30 AM

Public education and emergency room care for starters. And if you think illegals aren’t getting traditional welfare you’re kidding yourself.

smfoushee on September 13, 2011 at 2:37 AM

smfoushee on September 13, 2011 at 2:32 AM

You’ve done a really good job expanding and explaining Perry’s answer.

But trust me, the Romney supporters here will not be satisfied with any explanation, despite the fact that their guy’s position on illegal immigration shifts with the political winds.

TheRightMan on September 13, 2011 at 2:39 AM

Public education and emergency room care for starters. And if you think illegals aren’t getting traditional welfare you’re kidding yourself.

smfoushee on September 13, 2011 at 2:37 AM

Under the 1996 welfare reform, they are prohibited from getting welfare other than public health and emergency services. I do not condone breaking this law. Texas does have sales taxes, meaning even illegals pay some taxes, and I consider that a wash.

alwaysfiredup on September 13, 2011 at 2:39 AM

Perry isn’t giving all illegals preferential treatment, only those whom are willing to put in the time and effort to become US citizens.

smfoushee on September 13, 2011 at 2:32 AM

So, citizenship is a federal job, except when it comes to Texas taxpayers who have to put illegals through college so they can become citizens easier?

I have to admit that I’m among the 59% of Texans who think that’s plain crazy.

Rebar on September 13, 2011 at 2:39 AM

Anyway…it’s late, and I need to sleep. Make a run for the border before they build that fence to keep us from fleeing to Mexico. Ron Paul warned you.

MadisonConservative on September 13, 2011 at 2:37 AM

See? I do need to sleep.

MadisonConservative on September 13, 2011 at 2:40 AM

What immigrants live off the welfare state? In most states immigrants aren’t eligible for welfare benefits. Certainly they aren’t in mine.
alwaysfiredup on September 13, 2011 at 2:30 AM
I’m waiting for “It’s a Texas thing. You wouldn’t understand.”
On the next episode of Texas Shore…

MadisonConservative on September 13, 2011 at 2:32 AM

Wow that was very corny. It’s ok, it is a Texas thing

conservador on September 13, 2011 at 2:40 AM

conservador on September 13, 2011 at 2:40 AM

I no longer wonder why Texas has an illegal immigration problem.

alwaysfiredup on September 13, 2011 at 2:42 AM

I don’t want illegals to become us citizens. The most I could take is that they become permanent residents if they jump through certain hoops, but even that is iffy. Their children will get automatic citizenship and they will get treated at ERs, and I think that’s plenty generous.

alwaysfiredup on September 13, 2011 at 2:36 AM

And who are you trusting to follow through on your wishes? Romney? Palin? Obama? Bachmann?

Don’t let any politician’s tough talk on illegal immigrants currently in the country deceive you – especially Romney.

Fact: A few might be deported but the vast majority will get some form of amnesty.

The best we can hope for is that the border be secured as best as it can be before that happens.

TheRightMan on September 13, 2011 at 2:42 AM

I don’t want illegals to become us citizens. The most I could take is that they become permanent residents if they jump through certain hoops, but even that is iffy. Their children will get automatic citizenship and they will get treated at ERs, and I think that’s plenty generous.

alwaysfiredup on September 13, 2011 at 2:36 AM

Even if they go through the system? Is the litmus test for you once an illegal always an illegal?

Now, don’t misunderstand me, I’m not an advocate for amnesty nor do I believe in the right of people to defy our laws. However, if you’re going to vilify Perry for his decisions as governor then I ask you do so based on what a state governor can do, and not what we need to pass and reform at the federal level.

I’m not a huge Perry fan on the issue of immigration – I know that will floor y’all after tonight’s discussion – but I’m also not blind to the fact that what we need to accomplish can never be done at the state level and arguing about what has been done in the best interest of Texas in spite of the failings of the federal government while holding Perry to a higher standard that his office can never live up to is unfair.

smfoushee on September 13, 2011 at 2:44 AM

I hate phony attacks. Huge pet peeve.

NO other candidate on the stage would round up the children of illegal immigrants and ship them out of the country. So they can attack Perry all they want for his policy of not denying opportunity to children of illegals, but they’re just trying to get their 10 seconds of applause.

nickj116 on September 12, 2011 at 10:36 PM

Perry’s in-state tuition for illegal aliens is REWARDING invading lawbreakers with his constituents’ taxes. He is ENCOURAGING more lawbreaking! Not rewarding illegals with reduced tuition is NOT denying them opportunity! It’s just not REWARDING them!!

Not to pick on you especially, Nick, but just to show an example of how many people either don’t know about, or ignore, the most popular option: ATTRITION THROUGH ENFORCEMENT. Not deportation, and not amnesty.

Check this poll — the only one to ever offer all three clear alternatives. Attrition is a clear winner, but is usually ignored by those in favor of amnesty (i. e., Bush, McCain, Kennedy, Obama, Perry, etc.) as they lambaste those who want the laws enforced.

Here is how attrition works: listed to an illegal alien explain why he is going home and taking his family with him.

You don’t need as high a fence if you STOP ALL REWARDS: jobs (via mandatory and universal E-Verify), in-state tuition, welfare, non-emergency health care, free education, sanctuary cities (outlawed in 1996, but never e3nforced!!), etc., etc. ad nauseam.

Heath Shuler’s SAVE Act, for instance, would do exactly this.

Amnesty and other rewards only encourages MORE future illegal immigration. As I stated a few days ago:

Perry is dead wrong on this one issue.

Perry also has his head in the sand about E-Verify statistics.

ALL candidates, voters, and HA commenters need to see that Zogby poll, the only one I have ever seen that offers all 3 choices, including attrition through enforcement, and the video, which shows an illegal alien telling how well it works.

You can be wrong on lots of issues (taxes, etc.) and cause no permanent damage, because the law can be changed and the situation eventually corrected.

But if you “legalize” 12 to 20 million illegal aliens, they will be a PERMANENT magnet and example for the NEXT 20 million invaders.

When has ever rewarding criminals with their ill-gotten goods (residency in our country, in this case) helped to reduce the crimes (illegal entry, in this case)??

Try rewarding the thieves with their stolen jewels.

Duh.

fred5678 on September 13, 2011 at 2:44 AM

You’ve done a really good job expanding and explaining Perry’s answer.

But trust me, the Romney supporters here will not be satisfied with any explanation, despite the fact that their guy’s position on illegal immigration shifts with the political winds.

TheRightMan on September 13, 2011 at 2:39 AM

Thank you and you make a great point. If this is a two man race I’d love to hear how Romney contrasts with Perry in regards to immigration using what he has said he’ll support as President versus what Perry has said he’ll support as President. I’m pretty sure Perry would eek out a win in that contest.

smfoushee on September 13, 2011 at 2:46 AM

Is Illegal Immigration Moral?
By Victor Davis Hanson

/excerpt
If it is deemed ethical to grant in-state tuition discounts to illegal-immigrant students, is it equally ethical to charge three times as much for out-of-state, financially needy American students — whose federal government usually offers billions to subsidize state colleges and universities? If foreign nationals are afforded more entitlements, are there fewer for U.S. citizens?

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2010/11/27/is_illegal_immigration_moral_108066.html

FloatingRock on September 13, 2011 at 2:48 AM

smfoushee on September 13, 2011 at 2:44 AM

If they want full citizenship, they have to leave the country and apply. Alternatively they can apply for citizenship once they have citizen family members, I recall there being a path that way. I’m generally in favor of “guest workers”, and I can handle permanent residence. But citizenship is special and should be reserved for people who followed the law.

alwaysfiredup on September 13, 2011 at 2:49 AM

Ok, if your a mass deportation by attrition advocate, get real.

conservador on September 13, 2011 at 2:50 AM

Under the 1996 welfare reform, they are prohibited from getting welfare other than public health and emergency services. I do not condone breaking this law. Texas does have sales taxes, meaning even illegals pay some taxes, and I consider that a wash.

alwaysfiredup on September 13, 2011 at 2:39 AM

We’re still required to pay for education – and I’m about out of gas here, but you’d be surprised with the stories I can tell you from my experience with my sister-in-law (a US citizen) and her friends from Mexico. It’s not right, and I’ve contacted the authorities on a few occasions but the feds don’t care, or more accurately the bureaucracy doesn’t care. We need someone in Washington with a resolute congress (anyone think Beohner is that guy?) that will clean house and implement tough reforms.

smfoushee on September 13, 2011 at 2:51 AM

smfoushee on September 13, 2011 at 2:51 AM

And when it comes to immigration, I do not believe Perry is the guy to implement those reforms.

alwaysfiredup on September 13, 2011 at 2:54 AM

So, citizenship is a federal job, except when it comes to Texas taxpayers who have to put illegals through college so they can become citizens easier?

I have to admit that I’m among the 59% of Texans who think that’s plain crazy.

Rebar on September 13, 2011 at 2:39 AM

No, granting citizenship is a federal act. The DREAM act Obama supports is essentially trading citizenship for a degree sort of an academic amnesty, whereas the in-state tuition program is simply an incentive to push the individuals already here to work towards becoming a citizen. It really is better thought of as welfare reform, and I’d love to go into this more with you but I’m beat and I have 6 hours of class lectures tomorrow to prep for. Do you mind swapping emails and perhaps we can grab some coffee somewhere to finish this sometime? Is your info on the NTTP website?

smfoushee on September 13, 2011 at 2:54 AM

smfoushee on September 13, 2011 at 2:46 AM

That has always been my approach – I assess a candidate’s specific and overall positions in relation to the others on the ticket.

There are two issues on the table in relation to illegal immigration:

1. Border security

2. Illegal immigration policy post securing the border

On (1), Romney claims he will build a fence along the whole Mexican border. Personally, I do not believe him. He is as credible on this as Boehner was on his cutting $100 billion from the 2011 budget.

Perry, on the other hand and based on his experience, says a border fence along the whole border might not be the best option. He advocates boots on the ground. I believe him because he is a border state Gov. that did actually build a stretch of fence that didn’t work so well.

On (2), there is no one in the GOP field (be it Romney, Bachmann, Perry, even Palin) that will be willing to stick their neck out and say they will deport all the tens of millions of illegals here. They will all evade the question, as Romney did today, and talk about (1).

Thus, anybody accusing the other of being a squish on illegal immigration is just being plain dishonest.

TheRightMan on September 13, 2011 at 2:55 AM

Ok, if your a mass deportation by attrition advocate, get real.

conservador on September 13, 2011 at 2:50 AM

I’m an advocate for enforcing the laws on the books. And if that means deporting as many as we can for as long as we can until the illegals are scared enough to leave on their own, then so be it. We are a nation of laws, not men. And we are also bound by a social contract called “the constitution” that applies to those who make a conscious choice to be bound to it: In a word, “citizens.”

gryphon202 on September 13, 2011 at 2:57 AM

If they want full citizenship, they have to leave the country and apply. Alternatively they can apply for citizenship once they have citizen family members, I recall there being a path that way. I’m generally in favor of “guest workers”, and I can handle permanent residence. But citizenship is special and should be reserved for people who followed the law.

alwaysfiredup on September 13, 2011 at 2:49 AM

Something we can agree on.

Many of these students are children of parents that brought them here when they were young and have lived most of their lives in the state. For them this is a choice to either do the right thing and work hard to become a citizen or return back to a country they’ve never really known and go through the system as you described – if caught and ICE agrees to deport them of course. I don’t believe the sponsors are part of the immigration system anymore, at least when my brother-in-law, a marine, married a woman from the Philippines he had to wait two years and pay tens of thousands of dollars in fees to get her back to the states. Even though she had relatives in California it didn’t matter. Of course I could be wrong on that point it’s been over 10 years since he had to do that.

smfoushee on September 13, 2011 at 3:00 AM

TheRightMan on September 13, 2011 at 2:55 AM

I agree, none of these candidates will follow through with the sort of tough immigration reform many on here want to see. If securing the border is something you want done then Perry is the guy that will do it, as Romney will talk tough but lack the follow through, and besides a 1200 mile fence isn’t going to work logistically, we need boots on the ground. A fence isn’t going to stop drug tunnels to Laredo or keep people from finding a secluded section of the fence and use a 35-foot ladder, as Perry once said.

smfoushee on September 13, 2011 at 3:05 AM

It’s been fun y’all, have a great night. Rebar, if you’re still reading just go to my blog (link via my name below) and you’ll find a way to contact me if you want to discuss further.

Good night.

smfoushee on September 13, 2011 at 3:07 AM

You can send out the military to round up all the illegals and besides doing some economic damage, you won’t deport them all. You can focus on just the Mexicans with bills like SB 1070 and then go 14th amendment, then do no drivers licenses, and on and on. They are still here working, living. In the end they come to work. Even if there was no such thing as welfare, or emergency room care, they would still come

Mass deportation by attrition advocates suffer from mental myopia!

We need public policy that restores order and can actually win elections.

conservador on September 13, 2011 at 3:09 AM

We need public policy that restores order and can actually win elections.

conservador on September 13, 2011 at 3:09 AM

You’d make a good politician. Any ideas on how to actually accomplish that goal, President Obama…erm, um, I mean, Conservador?

gryphon202 on September 13, 2011 at 3:14 AM

Yeah I got good ideas, first one is stop shooting ourselves with the immigration talk and propose real grown up solutions.

Perry was attacked tonight for taking a lead versus just shouting out that something is wrong. He is only real problem solver on the stage, everyone tries to please everyone and not get hurt

conservador on September 13, 2011 at 3:22 AM

Yeah I got good ideas, first one is stop shooting ourselves with the immigration talk and propose real grown up solutions.

Perry was attacked tonight for taking a lead versus just shouting out that something is wrong. He is only real problem solver on the stage, everyone tries to please everyone and not get hurt

conservador on September 13, 2011 at 3:22 AM

Oh, so your solution is to propose solutions! And in the meantime, you consider Perry a problem solver for his willingness to actively encourage illegal immigrants to descend on his state. Idiot.

gryphon202 on September 13, 2011 at 3:30 AM

It’s not FREE tuition, it’s IN-STATE TUITION RATES.

So no, your understanding sucks.

fossten on September 12, 2011 at 10:37 PM

Its giving Non Americans a benefit to get an education that other Americans cant give because they live in a different state ?

William Amos on September 12, 2011 at 10:39 PM

Perry’s playing with fire.

I went to school as on out-of-state student and had to pay nearly TRIPLE the tuition as an in-state student. So I had to take out student loans which I paid back IN FULL.

So though I was a U.S. taxpayer, my out-of-state status was enough to force me to pay a much-higher, non-state-subsidized rate.

So now the child of ILLEGALS, many of who are operating on a CASH BASIS, in the underground economy, and NOT paying federal taxes, who are sending LARGE amounts of CASH MONEY back to Mexico, instead of injecting it into the local ecomony (or paying their HOSPITAL BILLS), and showing a VERY LOW declarable income, therefore qualifying for the rates I cannot have as a tax-paying American, just because I am from another state?

Screw this line of thinking, and SCREW PERRY if he thinks he’s going to take his border-friendly, Jorge Arbusto II thinking nationwide.

cane_loader on September 13, 2011 at 3:48 AM

Either give out-of-state Americans the same rate as the children of illegal aliens, or make all tuition the same rate.

No matter which way you slice it, this adds up to favoring the children of law-breaking Mexicans over the children of law-abiding Americans.

It stinks worse than anything I’ve smelled in a long time.

cane_loader on September 13, 2011 at 4:06 AM

Either give out-of-state Americans the same rate as the children of illegal aliens, or make all tuition the same rate.

No matter which way you slice it, this adds up to favoring the children of law-breaking Mexicans over the children of law-abiding Americans.

It stinks worse than anything I’ve smelled in a long time.

cane_loader on September 13, 2011 at 4:06 AM

I’m afraid 1/2 of Hot Air has become pro-illegal immigration just to spite Romney.

scotash on September 13, 2011 at 4:42 AM

Perry said that it is “states’ rights” that allows Texas to treat the children of illegal Mexicans better than the children of legal Americans.

That doesn’t make it OK for him to make Texas a gateway state.

When the illegals that Perry coddles move on to the next under-the-table job out of state, then the problem has migrated.

Texas and Perry should be held accountable for the damage done in other states by illegal aliens who entered through Texas with a wink from the governor, then later moved on and spread out across America.

cane_loader on September 13, 2011 at 4:58 AM

Perry said that it is “states’ rights” that allows Texas to treat the children of illegal Mexicans better than the children of legal Americans.

That doesn’t make it OK for him to make Texas a gateway state.

When the illegals that Perry coddles move on to the next under-the-table job out of state, then the problem has migrated.

Texas and Perry should be held accountable for the damage done in other states by illegal aliens who entered through Texas with a wink from the governor, then later moved on and spread out across America.

After 0bama refused to receive the letter from Perry regarding illegal immigration, it was Perry’s DUTY to send the Texas National Guatd to the border.

Perry failed to stanch the flow of job-killing illegals and, after the Feds refused to act, the burden was on him –

cane_loader on September 13, 2011 at 5:01 AM

“At the halfway point, we’ve got one backtrack and two double-downs,” the @BarackObama Twitter account reported to its more than 10 million followers.

Barack Obama, the coward.

He is such a coward, that appears to be his only selling point: being a coward.

Lourdes on September 13, 2011 at 5:56 AM

No matter which way you slice it, this adds up to favoring the children of law-breaking Mexicans over the children of law-abiding Americans.

It stinks worse than anything I’ve smelled in a long time.

cane_loader on September 13, 2011 at 4:06 AM

How rude of you to notice. This is a huge problem for Perry and arrogance is not a proper response. I suspect if he becomes president, he’ll think, like Bush did, that he has the “political capital” to spend to push this on the rest of us. I’m hoping he is just as wrong as Bush was.

SKYFOX on September 13, 2011 at 6:00 AM

Ace’s co-blogger Drew said it well: “I want to like Perry but if you watched these things & didn’t know who was who, no one would ID Perry as the double digit frontrunner.” Indeed. And I think his biggest problem tonight may be less the substance of the attacks than the fact that they came from Bachmann, who’s probably back in the race (at least in Iowa) and may be able to keep Perry from breaking away. A good night for Romney.

I agree. Perry tumbled and twisted on this two-point question (“what are you going to do to attract Hispanic voters” and also about so-called “illegal immigrants” [illegal aliens, in reality]).

Romney came forward very clearly and demonstratively (no amnesty, no taxpayer-programs for their use as to illegal aliens) and Romney’s succinct reaffirmation about his enthusiasm for a border fence, increased border security and deterrence to illegal trespass of it.

Meanwhile, in the past, what Romney was promoting was the “high tech security” concept of many a video of the border with not as many border agents there to capture and penalize illegal trespassers, which, predictably, fails in reality because being filmed isn’t going to stop the most aggressive trespassers and spending billions on video equipment to film trespassers is fruitless if and when there’s no one present to immediately stop, detain and/or deter illegal trespassers (proven already after spending billions on the video-only idea).

Perry remains clouded on this issue and though it might be ‘working for Texas” to go-easy on the issue of securing our border against primarily Mexican invasion, it just irritates and offends so many of us Americans as a national policy.

The one thing Perry should be doing is emphasizing, if this is so as he suggests, that what Texas did as to illegal alien children of illegal alien parents (Texas’ version of DREAM act), IS DIFFERENT than the national idea that the Left wants to implement (and states such as California already have). Perry doesn’t assert this distinction strongly enough if at all and he should be doing so while also, if he believes this, asserting a strong border plan.

Sheriff Joe in Arizona says he talked at length with Perry and he’s satisfied that Perry would be strong on border security against illegal immigration, and that’s a big plus, but so far, I don’t hear that coming to the public from Perry.

I agree that Romney did very well on this issue, as also on others, all except his somewhat murky statements about Obamacare (he says he’d issue “waivers for every state” as to Obamacare on his first day in the Presidency, if elected, while he never says he’d repeal Obamacare entirely, so this is a problem for me as to what his intentions are).

Lourdes on September 13, 2011 at 6:06 AM

From twitter came that question, “what are you going to do to attract Hispanic voters”…

…and I found myself thinking, “whattheheck?”

Imagine what would transpire should someone ask the candidates, “what are you going to do to attract Caucasian voters?”

These ethnic and racial “specialized appeals” or gimmees-demands/expectations are truly insulting to any American’s integrity and intelligence.

Perhaps the person who tweeted that “question” should be asked what they’re doing to become an American citizen and not an ethnically-divisional spoiled brat.

Lourdes on September 13, 2011 at 6:09 AM

I wanted to scream at Perry when he said “We didnt want them on the Public Dole”

Wait isnt giving them FREE TUTITION putting them on the dole ?

He really sucks on this issue.

William Amos on September 12, 2011 at 10:34 PM

I’m sure you know his meaning: An educated illegal will less likely be a lifetime drain on the system. He’s saying he’d rather pay for 4 years of education than sixty or seventy years of welfare.

I’m not defending Perry’s policy as a whole. But sh*tcan the faux outrage.

Splashman on September 12, 2011 at 10:39 PM

Every admission to U.S. colleges and universities that is filled by an illegal alien is a position in those respective institutions that an American citizen is not receiving.

The institutions are VASTLY FUNDED by U.S. taxpayers. Their tuition is not the full extent of what those term admissions cost those admitted, they represent but a mere portion of what the overall costs are, the majority of those costs are born overall by the U.S. taxpayers.

And simply because someone attends a college or university (for a portion of or a full four-year curriculum) is no guarantee (does not preclude) that they will not be “on the dole” later OR DURING.

People who claim special admission status by way of race, ethnicity, capability or diminished capacity, whatever, generally also continue to associate as such after they leave college. That means, they’ll move along from one program to the next throughout their lives as they associate with such a limitation or marginalization, until they no longer do, if ever.

Among the biggest social detriments presented to the U.S. by illegal aliens is their all-too-often demands for “a salad bowl society” and not “a melting pot”.

Lourdes on September 13, 2011 at 6:17 AM

Perry looked very weak tonight. Also, when he lowers his voice and talks all smooth to say “I will always err on the side of life” to try and sidestep the entire HPV vaccine issue, it makes me rage.

thphilli on September 12, 2011 at 10:42 PM

While my reaction was not to “rage,” I do agree that Perry looked weak tonight. I was disappointed in Perry’s responses.

Lourdes on September 13, 2011 at 6:20 AM

Will say the single biggest thing that really bothered me about Perry tonight was the racism insinuation.

“We dont care what your last name is”

Thats Obamabot talking points.

William Amos on September 12, 2011 at 10:46 PM

Yes, agree with you there. Perry even repeated that phrase twice.

Who suggested anyone cared to begin with? It was certainly a conflicting communication, odd to say the least.

Lourdes on September 13, 2011 at 6:26 AM

I hate phony attacks. Huge pet peeve.

NO other candidate on the stage would round up the children of illegal immigrants and ship them out of the country.

nickj116 on September 12, 2011 at 10:36 PM

Yup.

Jaibones on September 13, 2011 at 6:38 AM

These kids did not break the law. Their parents broke the law.

ramrants on September 12, 2011 at 10:57 PM

They’re here illegally. They ARE breaking the law.

Once someone is aware of what their legal responsibilities are as regards illegal immigration, if they’re involved in it, they are responsible as anyone else is to resolve their situation legally.

I don’t support the notion that “these kids” as illegal aliens should be given some bypass from our laws just because they’re here illegally. BECAUSE it has created among their population an assumption that they’re being victimized by the “big, bad U.S.” — note their complaints routinely involved denigrating the U.S. because of their own situations and refusal to depart a nation they’re in illegally.

Their parents are responsible for bringing them here illegally. But once aware of what their violations are of our laws, they’re as culpable as any other illegal alien for their situations.

They face an unusual situation, I agree, but what they ought to do is go home (their own nations) and apply for legal immigration and then go about becoming U.S. citizens.

Lourdes on September 13, 2011 at 6:44 AM

I hate phony attacks. Huge pet peeve.

NO other candidate on the stage would round up the children of illegal immigrants and ship them out of the country.

nickj116 on September 12, 2011 at 10:36 PM

Yup.

Jaibones on September 13, 2011 at 6:38 AM

I agree as to the debate structure BUT the legal penalty for being in the nation illegally is deportation, per our Constitution.

It’s likely a tough penalty because the crime is extremely offensive == don’t do the crime if you can’t face the wheel.

Lourdes on September 13, 2011 at 6:46 AM

All this means is that Sarah Palin has become the prime “stop Romney(RINO)” person, which is exactly what that genius of a woman was waiting for.

In many ways, Perry was just another Romney with a cowboy hat.

Don L on September 13, 2011 at 6:49 AM

smfoushee on September 13, 2011 at 2:44 AM

I’m with you. If they are here, the “damage” is done, because we are not going to be lining up miles of buses to load people up in and take down South. As a realistic matter our best course is to bring them in to the system so that they will live by the same rules as every one else. No, it isn’t ideal and it isn’t the “pure” way to replenish our democracy. But is the only way we are going to get from here to there in terms of transforming the illegal immigrant problem in to a benefit for our society.

As for the TX DREAM act (which is not at all the same as the liberal Federal DREAM act) the children of illegals did not choose to be here. They have lived their lives as residents and we all benefit by helping them to become more productive citizens. Who is going to pay for all of those entitlement programs as our demographics shift to the older side? Do you want them to be further drains on our system or do you want them to be valuable contributors?

MJBrutus on September 13, 2011 at 6:52 AM

BECAUSE it has created among their population an assumption that they’re being victimized by the “big, bad U.S.”

Geez we’ve got a whole bunch of legal citizens claiming that. How else does the Dmeocrat Party put together an election without their aggitated and aggreived groups?

Don L on September 13, 2011 at 6:52 AM

To Whom It May Concern:

It’s called PASSION, people. Some possess it & it shows, 1 way or another, to 1 extent or another.

It’s called being smart, of/by/for the US Constitution. Some are smart & it shows, 1 way or another, to 1 extent or another.

Some think it’s ‘I’m in charge, now. We’re in charge, now.’ That attitude is a major mistake.

So…

What is the right attitude? What is the just attitude. What is Right & Just is RightJust/Righteous.

Also…

This debate is directly related to the Tea Party.

Some people ask: ‘Who is the leader of the Tea Party?’

WHO? 1st of all, maybe, it’s really about WHAT.

In essence, the US Constitution is the leader of the Tea Party.

GET REAL: Overall, from the past, in the present, & into the future: Ron Paul most closely lines up with this political philosophy.

Each candidate’s got his/her good points; some, more especially & more exceptionally so than others.

Please save yourselves from projecting & commenting based upon whatever’s going on inside your lower ego:

‘Leggo Your Eggo.’

Ideally, to the core, the higher ego within us all is to line up just right with the US Constitution, to the greatest extent possible in this world of today, with everyone & everything else involved, both directly & remotely, and in-between; going with a good attitude, taking 1 good step at a time, all at a good pace.

So…

Let’s make the IDEAL the REAL.

Onward & Upward, May We The People of the US Go.

MAY *G* BLESS THE US & MAKE EVERYTHING ESPECIALLY & EXCEPTIONALLY GOOD FOR THE US; WITHIN & ALL AROUND, AS IS DESERVED & AS IS RESERVED.

Now…

Let’s get to it.

ABLOGMAN on September 13, 2011 at 6:55 AM

All this means is that Sarah Palin has become the prime “stop Romney(RINO)” person, which is exactly what that genius of a woman was waiting for.

In many ways, Perry was just another Romney with a cowboy hat.

Don L on September 13, 2011 at 6:49 AM

In your opinion, do you think this means something? Perhaps a strategy on Palin’s part for something bigger? (honest questions)I only ask because you say it is something she was “waiting for.”

RDE2010 on September 13, 2011 at 7:42 AM

BECAUSE it has created among their population an assumption that they’re being victimized by the “big, bad U.S.”

Geez we’ve got a whole bunch of legal citizens claiming that. How else does the Dmeocrat Party put together an election without their aggitated and aggreived groups?

Don L on September 13, 2011 at 6:52 AM

Every time I see video reports of “these kids” (so-called), illegal aliens who claim they were ‘brought here’ by parents, whomever, in their even younger years, thus claiming that they’re not responsible for being here illegally…every time I see or read reports from that population, they’re all blaming the U.S. for one thing or another, threatening the U.S. and citizens, “if” we don’t give them what they want and that’s amnesty.

They may be here but they’re here illegally and I don’t see anything from most of them that indicates they even like the U.S. (OR ‘Americans’) but are here using the place (and us) to their self-indulgence purposes, by way of threats and taunts about our nation, our laws, our ideals, requirements, etc.

THEY’RE here illegally. It’s THEIR responsibility to straighten that out. They know our laws as well as most of us citizens do, generally, and yet their insistence that they’re somehow above our laws is truly offensive.

I think, if we’re to develope/implement any sort of “bigger government” programs to contend with this population of people, we should develope some sort of repatriation program that both bills their own nations for their educational, food and medical care, etc., and then makes it possible for them to be bused or flown back home. What they decide to do with their lives from there is up to them and their own governments.

Because, when they remain here, they reap our nation’s benefits but I don’t read or hear too many of them afterward in later years (still here, illegally or not) with good things to say about the U.S.

I think the moral and ethical disturbances they create and continue to foster does greater damage to our nation than most politicians seem willing to admit. The citizens mostly get it, the “elected officials” refuse to admit it.

Lourdes on September 13, 2011 at 7:45 AM

Don L on September 13, 2011 at 6:49 AM

In your opinion, do you think this means something? Perhaps a strategy on Palin’s part for something bigger? (honest questions)I only ask because you say it is something she was “waiting for.”

RDE2010 on September 13, 2011 at 7:42 AM

…thinking back to recent history as to McCain’s wimpy, flimsy, squishy positions on enforcing our laws against illegal aliens, enforcing border security and Palin’s eager admissions that his views are a mirror of hers, that they agree on all the issues, and Palin’s refusal to support enforcing deportation of illegal aliens.

Let’s be candid here.

Lourdes on September 13, 2011 at 7:49 AM

And as to yesterday’s Tea Party debate in Tampa, FL, I think Gingrich came across once again as vastly under supported as reflected in polls.

It wasn’t Perry’s best appearance, it was Romney’s better appearances as also Bachmann’s on some of her remarks, I still can’t stand Huntsman for intuitive reasons alone, Cain remains an appealing personality though not a likely nominee for the GOP ticket, and Santorum continues to retreat back into his promotions of “immigration” when asked/challenged on the issues of illegal aliens (so I think he’s revealing himself to be more a “social justice” guy than suits my comfort level, though I continue to like Santorum on many other issues).

I’m still quite proud of the GOP candidates. Gingrich should be a member of the next Administration’s Cabinet, no doubt about it.

Lourdes on September 13, 2011 at 7:55 AM

Perry is not perfect by any means, but is the most conservative vialbe candidate (I don’t consider Bachman viable and Palin, thus far, is not running).

It’s not as if Romney would actually do anthing about the Border. Romney would either a) ignore the issue completely as Bush and Obama have done or b) try to push through McCain’s amnesty. No matter what Romney says right now, he is never going to attempt to enforce the border.

And, I have no faith that Romeny would seek to or agree to repeal Obamacare or take on entitlements or spending. Romney is a go-along-get-along republican. He is not going to try to do any big things. He will, at best, tinker at the edges.

I don’t even have faith that Romney would appoint solid conservatives to cabinet and agency positions. I can see him appointing a whole swath of RINOs who simply keep the status quo set by Obama’s admin.

And, I have no faith that Romney would nominate true conservatives to SCOTUS. I think the best we would get out of him is another O’Connoer or Kennedy and more likely another Souter.

And finally, I have doubts that Romney can beat Obama. He is no good at taking it to the other candidate and Obama is good at that. Plus, Romney’s record of flip-flops and romneycare is easy pickings for negative ads. And, I still have fears that large numbers of evangelicals wouldn’t vote for a mormon. Plus you would have excitement/intensity issues with the base if Romney is the nominee. Finally, I don’t see Romney exciting independents either. Romney would only win if enough people are disgusted at Obama – which is entirely possible, but I don’t see Romney winning on his own merits.

Cain is not ready for this. I like him, but he is simply not ready. He should run for Senate or Governor or something first.

Bachman is not ready. Again, I like her, but what is her experience and qualifications? I just don’t see her as viable right now.

Santorum and Gingrich aren’t really even trying to win the nomination – they just want to be in the debates. They are there to keep their name recognition up, nothing more.

Ron Paul is a joke.

So, that leaves Perry as the best option (again, before the Palin people go nuts, the best option of those currently running – if Palin announces, we can start to consider her). Perry has issues that I don’t agree with, but that is true with all the candidates.

Monkeytoe on September 13, 2011 at 8:30 AM

Can we now finally dispense with the unfounded notion that this guy is somehow a conservative?

steebo77 on September 13, 2011 at 8:42 AM

Can we finally put paid to the notion that this guy is not a conservative?

MJBrutus on September 13, 2011 at 8:49 AM

Under the 1996 welfare reform, they are prohibited from getting welfare other than public health and emergency services. I do not condone breaking this law. Texas does have sales taxes, meaning even illegals pay some taxes, and I consider that a wash.

alwaysfiredup on September 13, 2011 at 2:39 AM

So Juan Valdez, illegal alien, cannot collect welfare, but Johann Schmidt, the guy whose social security number he’s using, is completely eligible.

John Deaux on September 13, 2011 at 8:55 AM

I must be honest, I’ve lived in Texas all but one year of my entire life, and even I was not really familiar with the Texas Dream Act. I decided to get educated instead of just screaming about it with all all the other lemmings.

We have a problem in this Country, & no where is it more prevalent than here in my hometown of El Paso, Texas. What do we do about illegal immigration? Close the borders, yes, but what about the people here now? I’ve really had mixed emotions about this, mostly negative, about these people crossing our borders illegally, but after reading up on this Texas enacted law, I say to all of you; is it really such a bad idea?

At least we can harness the smart and the talented who know this Country as their home, not Mexico. They were brought here by their parents out of no fault of their own, some of them don’t even know that they aren’t American citizens!

Go to this link, maybe it will open your mind, and your heart.

Susanboo on September 13, 2011 at 8:56 AM

Ha! I forgot the link!

http://blog.chron.com/texassparkle/2011/06/gov-perry-and-the-texas-dream-act/

Susanboo on September 13, 2011 at 8:57 AM

Perry is emerging more like Bush all over again on immigration so if you had a problem with that you probably won’t vote for him. He would be more likely to drill than the others, but would still have that crony capitalism issue in the background. I still don’t see anyone in the ‘field’ that’s worthy of my vote.

Kissmygrits on September 13, 2011 at 9:15 AM

No. Perry granted them perks of Texas residents, you non-Texas cheese heads still have to pay the full tab. ;p

Again, y’all are mixing federal and state issues. US citizens have no right to Texas in-state tuition unless you’re a resident of the state – for at least one year. We can always waive the mandatory cowboy hat, boots and horse riding lessons.

smfoushee on September 13, 2011 at 1:53 AM

lol

pullingmyhairout on September 13, 2011 at 9:16 AM

Susanboo on September 13, 2011 at 8:56 AM

Thanks, Susanboo. There are many Texans who actually do have some common sense and a heart. I live in Corpus Christi and we have our fair share of illegal immigrants. We also have our fair share of children who were brought here as babies. As many warts as we have down here, it’s a great place – colorful, friendly and welcoming. If those children want to work hard to become productive members of our society, I don’t have a problem helping them out. I would much rather these kiddos go to school than become thug gang banger baby daddies.

pullingmyhairout on September 13, 2011 at 9:21 AM

Couple of other things to consider:

1. Due to their illegal status, the illegal immigrant graduates get a tax-subsidized college education but none of them can legally work. So they have a Bachelor/Master/PhD and no means of legally working. If they work, they are in violation of visa laws and would have to steal an identity.

2. Some of those eligible for the these types of programs are already working. That means they have had to use another person’s (id theft victim) SSN and likely provide false documentation for the I-9. Those are felonies that frequently involve a victim. It gets worse for the victim if they take out loans etc under the SSN as well.

batter on September 13, 2011 at 9:22 AM

batter on September 13, 2011 at 9:22 AM

A person who graduates with a useful degree should have a work visa stapled to their diploma and citizen education made a part of their curriculum!

MJBrutus on September 13, 2011 at 10:31 AM

tonight’s “problem” issues — Social Security, Gardasil, the Texas DREAM Act

This thread has lots of pages so I might be repeating what’s already been said. I don’t really care. I’d like to take these “problem” issues on one at a time.

1. Social Security – this shouldn’t be a problem for us. As the others dig in their heels against him on it, they lose credibility. Someone suggested in one of the headlines threads the other day that Perry’s supporters are only angry at Mitt for raising the issue because he’s being “mean.” That’s not my objection at all. My objection is that Romney is making it harder to raise awareness on the entitlements issue. All conservatives should be passionate about destroying the biggest spending package of all: entitlements.
2. Gardasil – Perry’s chief opponent is Romney. ‘Nuff said.
3. Texas DREAM Act – I’ve never paid much attention to this because if I’m not mistaken, all of them are bad on immigration. So why single out just one of them?

OneGyT on September 13, 2011 at 11:49 AM

I don’t think Perry is a white-knight. He comes from a state which is doing the right things, he’s a little bit cowboy, and he can win.

Works for me.

Pablo Snooze on September 13, 2011 at 3:41 PM

Its not about money, but a matter of obeying the LAW. We ordinary citizens are subjected to law officials using tough enforcement on us.

I just got my first speeding ticket in 10 years, and if I don’t show up to court, I will be arrested.

V-rod on September 13, 2011 at 4:32 PM