Video: Bachmann, Santorum hammer Perry on the Gardasil HPV vaccine

posted at 9:48 pm on September 12, 2011 by Allahpundit

Via Breitbart TV, here’s the worst beating Perry’s taken in either debate, made doubly brutal by Bachmann’s rhetorical framing as a mother standing up for young children. And it’s actually a two-fer: Not only does she hit him on the vaccine itself, she pushes the cronyism angle by noting Merck’s lobbying. I can’t quite believe that his candidacy will be sunk by overzealousness in wanting little girls vaccinated for cancer, especially when his chief rival has major health-care liabilities of his own, but note the crowd reaction here. They’ve been on his side all night but they’re emphatically not on his side this time. Is that because he did a surprisingly poor job of parrying the attack or has he simply lost on this issue?

Incidentally, this clip is proof that Bachmann’s not ready to fade yet. It’s the first time she’s gone after Perry in earnest and she did a fine job of it. She may not win Iowa but she can hurt Perry plenty over the next few months. Romney must be ecstatic.

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“If you’re saying I can be bought for $5,000, I’m offended.”

windansea on September 12, 2011 at 10:29 PM

Perry’s answer wasn’t exactly top drawer either. He seems offended by the low price rather than saying he can’t be bought.

lexhamfox on September 12, 2011 at 10:33 PM

Bachmann sounds like she needs to go home and sit in the basement wearing her tinfoil hat. Sheesh lady!! This is not putting fluoride in drinking water or landing on the moon stuff!!

OldeSCfan on September 12, 2011 at 10:33 PM

Michele Bachman is nuts and Rick Santorum is appearing to be a whining little boy saying he can be as mean as she is.

Jdripper on September 12, 2011 at 10:34 PM

And that gives the government the right to interfere? .

knob on September 12, 2011 at 10:28 PM

I didn’t say that. I’m saying that anyone who thinks just abstaining until marriage protects from this disease is dangerously naive. You know better, but a lot of people don’t.

juliesa on September 12, 2011 at 10:34 PM

Perry’s answer wasn’t exactly top drawer either. He seems offended by the low price rather than saying he can’t be bought.

lexhamfox on September 12, 2011 at 10:33 PM

Yeah, that was a faux pas. Crony capitalism should be as far from his responses as possible.

KingGold on September 12, 2011 at 10:35 PM

OT: Romney: “I’ve been in the private sector my whole life”

He said this twice.

faraway on September 12, 2011 at 10:36 PM

Perry is not a very good debater. That doesn’t mean he wouldn’t be a good president. John Kerry was the second-best debater the Yale debate coach said he’d ever had. I rest my case. (The best was William F. Buckley.)

That having been said, Perry will have to rely on more than his “Aw Shucks” mien to go up against Obama.

I’m virulently opposed to his executive order on vaccinations. The only justifiable role of the state in enforcing those is for contagious diseases. It’s only a matter of degree between that and what Michelle Obama would love to enforce regarding calorie counts and telling us all how to live our lives. That’s the kind of law I’d expect in a communist country with enough funds to buy the vaccine.

If, as both Bachmann and now Palin have openly alleged, his decision resulted from “crony capitalism,” nobody who considers himself or herself a conservative should tolerate it.

I want to see a full explanation by Perry about Merck, his former chief of staff, and what his asking price is.

Until then, my choice is None of The Above.

Drained Brain on September 12, 2011 at 10:37 PM

A true conservative will lay out her principles and fight both Romney and Perry on where she thinks they diverge from those principles. Bachmann, on the contrary, has fought Perry stronger than she fought Romney before Perry’s entry and even now she continues to avoid him.

Thankfully, I am not the only conservative that has seen this and so I expect her numbers to go further south.

TheRightMan on September 12, 2011 at 10:21 PM

A “true conservative”? So you’re the buddha of what is true Conservatism? Gotcha.

I guess you missed the part where Bachmann exposed Romney on Romneycare being unconstitutional and how embracing a state mandated healthcare plan makes one NOT SERIOUS about repealing a federal one, e.g., Obamacare.

Perry’s the new kid and the current front-runner. Naturally, they’re all going after him because it helps them. Bachmann is not my candidate of choice, but I thought she did well tonight by highlighting Conservative positions and exposing the RINO facets of Perry and Romney. I will agree with you that she should go after Romney more, and has been soft on him until tonight, but she repeatedly shares Conservative principles. Actually, that’s one of the criticisms against her: repeating her talking points, which are Conservative talking points.

conservative pilgrim on September 12, 2011 at 10:37 PM

Bachmann has pushed me away. I might have a different opinion had there been no opt-out, but there was.

And why isn’t she hitting Romney? If it’s Rick Perry with his weak record on illegals and Guardisil versus Romney with his health care record, abortion flip-flop, and anti-2nd Amendment rhetoric, I will select Perry every day and donate money to boot.

Too bad Cain can’t get enough traction. He adds a lot.

flyfisher on September 12, 2011 at 10:37 PM

KingGold on September 12, 2011 at 10:30 PM

If Bachmann thinks it is smart politics to start to discuss the pluses and minuses of not only Gardasil but pretty much all vaccines in general, then I seriously overestimated her intelligence and political savvy.

She is sinking fast and her vanity is preventing her from seeing it… :)

TheRightMan on September 12, 2011 at 10:38 PM

I live in a Texas and have voted for Perry twice — and I thought it would be an easy choice to support him in the 2012 primary. But I have an uneasy feeling after watching this debate and the last, that the man is just not prepared or up to speed on the issues. He completely failed to push Romney on Romneycare, and I think it’s because he simply can’t make the argument beyond simple talking points. Over and over again he fails to make substantive arguments against his opponents or defend himself strongly against attacks on his record. If Bachmann can beat him around like this…

fed-nad on September 12, 2011 at 10:39 PM

Michelle Malkin is asking the same thing. Are all Conservative women ditzy in your opinion ?

William Amos on September 12, 2011 at 10:30 PM

If Malkin is read the exact quotes stated by Bachmann and agrees with their accuracy then yeah, she’s wrong as well.

Bachmann made inaccurate statements regarding Gardisil and Merck, no girls were injected, Merck made no money. I don’t like politicians who make things up to score points.

here are the quotes agin, want to defend them? Neither statement is true. Do you like liars?

“I’m offended by what happened to all those girls, ” Bachmann said of the required vaccination of girls as young as 12 against cervical cancer.

“We cannot forget that in the midst of this executive order there’s a big drug country that made millions of dollars because of this,” Bachmann said.

windansea on September 12, 2011 at 10:39 PM

OT: Romney: “I’ve been in the private sector my whole life”

He said this twice.

faraway on September 12, 2011 at 10:36 PM

He did spend almost his entire life in the private sector. He was only Gov for four years.

Now, the fact that those four years were awful should really be explored…

KingGold on September 12, 2011 at 10:39 PM

As I understand it, the risk of non-sexually active kids getting HPV is pretty small, the Gardasil vaccine can have serious side effects, and the effectiveness of the vaccine is in dispute. The decision of whether the purported benefits outweigh the risks is a decision that should have been left to the girls’ parents. This was a government overreach.

AZCoyote on September 12, 2011 at 10:26 PM

That bears repeating, please read it again.

orbitalair on September 12, 2011 at 10:41 PM

flyfisher on September 12, 2011 at 10:37 PM

Yep, Bachmann certainly has a lot to learn from Cain and Newt. Cain is a gentleman and sticks to his points without resorting to cheap political points.

Bachmann is coming across as hot-headed and someone without the temperament to be President and don’t think people are not noticing.

TheRightMan on September 12, 2011 at 10:41 PM

fed-nad on September 12, 2011 at 10:39 PM

We may be seeing the downside to remaining in the governor’s office while seeking the presidency. I think he can do much better.

flyfisher on September 12, 2011 at 10:42 PM

Drained Brain on September 12, 2011 at 10:37 PM

Well stated.

Jaibones on September 12, 2011 at 10:43 PM

batterup on September 12, 2011 at 10:30 PM

Thanks for that info. Perry can’t really go into the fact that the vaccine is aimed at a very poor underclass that can’t or won’t protect itself with Pap smears and abstinence. The vaccine would save a lot of lives (and money) among that population. As I understand it too, making it mandatory made it so that insurance would pay for it. It’s $360. Since it’s not mandatory, people have to pay out of pocket.

juliesa on September 12, 2011 at 10:45 PM

Bachmann is jumping the shark. Santorum never got in the water.

Sugar Land on September 12, 2011 at 10:45 PM

the Gardasil vaccine can have serious side effects, and the effectiveness of the vaccine is in dispute.

The CDC recommends it. It’s safety and effectiveness are not in dispute, any more than the other vaccines we subject our kids to.

juliesa on September 12, 2011 at 10:47 PM

It’s good to know that the TRUE CONSERVATIVE platform now includes being anti-vaccination.

doodleduh on September 12, 2011 at 9:54 PM

Gardasil might be a great vaccine–and, if so, parents of sexually active teenage girls should consider getting it for their daughters. But Perry sought to mandate the vaccine and, as Ron Paul (gag) said, the reasons underlying mandatory vaccines for measles and polio do not apply to an STD. The government has no business mandating t–period.

Outlander on September 12, 2011 at 10:47 PM

Until then, my choice is None of The Above.

Drained Brain on September 12, 2011 at 10:37 PM

I feel the same way–they are all flawed candidates. Excluding Huntsman and Paul, if I have to choose from this lot any would be better than Obama. I might not be as embarrassed as the last cycle voting for McLame, but that isn’t saying much.

conservative pilgrim on September 12, 2011 at 10:49 PM

Perry needs to brush up on debating techniques. He needs a team to prepare him for debates the same way Palin got coaching for VP debates.

Cain did well, but he wasn’t getting attacked from all sides. Newt and Romney are unbelievable – he’s knowledgeable while Rom is smooth talking; otherwise neither one is trustworthy.

MB loss me. Paul never had me and Hunstman is a snake oil salesman.

Santorum tried hard, but he’s got 0% chance.

So, Perry you better start putting in the time studying for these debates.

aigle on September 12, 2011 at 10:49 PM

Yeah, that was a faux pas. Crony capitalism should be as far from his responses as possible.

KingGold on September 12, 2011 at 10:35 PM

He should have just said “If you’re saying that I can be bought, I’m offended.”

I get his point about Merck’s donation being a drop in the bucket compared to the entirely of his coffers, but it was a tone deaf thing to say. Like others have said, it sounds like he was offended about being low-balled, not about crony capitalism.

Good Solid B-Plus on September 12, 2011 at 10:51 PM

At least we now know who Bachmann would name for her running mate if (*snort*) she were nominated: Jenny McCarthy.

Hollowpoint on September 12, 2011 at 10:55 PM

He did spend almost his entire life in the private sector. He was only Gov for four years.

Now, the fact that those four years were awful should really be explored…

KingGold on September 12, 2011 at 10:39 PM

He does have a lot of private sector experience, and that’s admirable, but he’s either held office or been running for office since 1996.

Hollowpoint on September 12, 2011 at 10:56 PM

This is an issue that will turn off the non-social conservative (i.e. the folks that actually determine who wins the general election) faster than anything to the entire Republican party – which is why Wolf was so gleeful about bringing it up. Not what Perry did, but the notion that it’s even an issue.

Most parents see a list of vaccinations required for their kid to go to high school, or college, or whatever, and they take the kid in to the clinic, and the kid gets the shots. Nothing controversial, whatsoever.

My daughter needed a meningitis vaccine before she could enroll in college. So she got one. HPV vaccine, if it were required, she’d have gotten it, too. Actually, she got it, anyway. She can be pure as the driven snow, but if her future husband’s been a little randy, well she doesn’t need cervical cancer as punishment for his bad behavior, does she?

notropis on September 12, 2011 at 10:57 PM

Thanks for that info. Perry can’t really go into the fact that the vaccine is aimed at a very poor underclass that can’t or won’t protect itself with Pap smears and abstinence. The vaccine would save a lot of lives (and money) among that population. As I understand it too, making it mandatory made it so that insurance would pay for it. It’s $360. Since it’s not mandatory, people have to pay out of pocket.

juliesa on September 12, 2011 at 10:45 PM

Yes, very true.

-Aslan’s Girl

Aslans Girl on September 12, 2011 at 10:57 PM

Gardasil might be a great vaccine–and, if so, parents of sexually active teenage girls should consider getting it for their daughters. But Perry sought to mandate the vaccine and, as Ron Paul (gag) said, the reasons underlying mandatory vaccines for measles and polio do not apply to an STD. The government has no business mandating t–period.

Outlander on September 12, 2011 at 10:47 PM

The vaccine is significantly less effective when administered to older women or after they become sexually active.

lexhamfox on September 12, 2011 at 11:00 PM

I was disappointed in Perry’s defense of the vaccine. Just flat out ask her, does she oppose vaccines, and end it there. Requiring vaccines is an appropriate role for government (IMO obviously).

Perry needs to spend the next week getting the ins and outs of these issues (immigration too). This isn’t going to cut it.

El_Terrible on September 12, 2011 at 11:10 PM

El_Terrible on September 12, 2011 at 11:10 PM

I think you’ve nailed it. Whoever wants to be the GOP front-runner needs to simply step over the primary opposition, and take on Obama directly, with all the electorate to see it.

notropis on September 12, 2011 at 11:23 PM

I posted this in the other thread but it seemed more appropriate here:

I already said that I’m not a supporter of the hpv mandate. That being said…std’s and teenage sex are pretty out of control right now. In 2008 1 in 4 teenagers had an std. 40% of teenagers who admitted to having sex had an std. So while hpv may not be spread by coughing or sharing a drink….many…many … teenagers could be spreading it in other ways. I still believe it’s a parental decision. But I can see where some people may see stats such as these and wonder why we aren’t pushing for vaccinations.

“The new study by CDC researcher Dr. Sara Forhan relied on slightly older data. It is an analysis of nationally representative records on girls ages 14 to 19 who participated in a 2003-04 government health survey.

The teens were tested for four infections: HPV, which can cause cervical cancer and affected 18 percent of girls studied; chlamydia, which affected 4 percent; trichomoniasis, 2.5 percent; and genital herpes, 2 percent.”

18% is a pretty high number. What’s the percentage of kids infected with polio??

maables on September 12, 2011 at 11:25 PM

Bachman should have learned to NOT make her campaign AGAINST another candidate HER ONLY campaign.

After the debate, Bachmann ran to both CNN and FOX and spent all her air time continuing to attack Perry. Too bad she did not bother to spread her message in any way, shape, or form.

Bachmann is now as finished as Pawlenty was after he devoted his campaign to only attacking her!

Freddy on September 12, 2011 at 11:26 PM

I believe Bachmann looked very petty. After 11 years as Governor I would think if the in state tuition issue and gardasil are the worst critics can come up with…Perry is in pretty good shape.

maables on September 12, 2011 at 11:27 PM

The vaccine is significantly less effective when administered to older women or after they become sexually active.

lexhamfox on September 12, 2011 at 11:00 PM

…because one’s chance of catching the virus rises exponentially with each new sexual partner. You don’t get vaccinated for a virus you already have. You get vaccinated for a virus you want to keep from getting.

I can’t quite believe that his candidacy will be sunk by overzealousness in wanting little girls vaccinated for cancer, especially when his chief rival has major health-care liabilities of his own, but note the crowd reaction here.

The crowd knows what I know, AP: There is no such thing as a “cancer vaccine.” Gardasil is a vaccine for a sexually transmitted disease that can (but doesn’t always) cause cancer. Distinction without a difference? I don’t think so.

gryphon202 on September 12, 2011 at 11:27 PM

1. Rick Perry admitted that he made a mistake. That takes courage – especially in politics.
2. There would have been an opt-out. But since the residents of Texas and our elected representatives – including Governor Perry – worked through the issue, it is no longer an issue.

redwhiteblue on September 12, 2011 at 11:35 PM

1. Rick Perry admitted that he made a mistake. That takes courage – especially in politics.
2. There would have been an opt-out. But since the residents of Texas and our elected representatives – including Governor Perry – worked through the issue, it is no longer an issue.

redwhiteblue on September 12, 2011 at 11:35 PM

I completely agree with this! Most Texans have moved on. The gop candidates just got the smell of blood and pounced though.

maables on September 12, 2011 at 11:39 PM

1. Rick Perry admitted that he made a mistake. That takes courage – especially in politics.

Oh sure. He saw what happened to Mitt when he unwisely doubled down on Romneycare. Do you really think that Perry’s “apology” was an act of good-faith contrition?

2. There would have been an opt-out. But since the residents of Texas and our elected representatives – including Governor Perry – worked through the issue, it is no longer an issue.

redwhiteblue on September 12, 2011 at 11:35 PM

All 50 states require a standard slate of vaccinations for school. All of them allow opt-outs. Again, it would have been political suicide for Perry to do otherwise. But it doesn’t bother you in the least that HPV doesn’t succumb to herd immunity? Or that it’s only contagious through sexual contact? These little bugaboos differentiate Perry’s executive order from other acts of various states’ legislatures. Not to mention the fact that he went over the head of his people’s elected representatives. And that doesn’t bother you? In the least? How about the way he “worked through it?” He stayed silent while he let the legislature clean up his mess — and apologized for it when he decided to run for higher office in direct violation of a promise he made the people of Texas to serve out his full term.

We can do better than Rick Perry.

gryphon202 on September 12, 2011 at 11:39 PM

Most Texans have moved on.

maables on September 12, 2011 at 11:39 PM

Perry will need to get more than Texans to vote for him.

gryphon202 on September 12, 2011 at 11:40 PM

Perry will need to get more than Texans to vote for him.

gryphon202 on September 12, 2011 at 11:40 PM

True. However, I don’t think this is an issue that will do Rick Perry in. Immigration and Gardasil is all they have been able to hit him on after 11 years as a governor. It will take more than that to knock him out.

maables on September 12, 2011 at 11:43 PM

He seems offended by the low price rather than saying he can’t be bought.

lexhamfox on September 12, 2011 at 10:33 PM

If you have to say something “seems” a certain way, you are fitting a statement into your preconceptions.

besser tot als rot on September 12, 2011 at 11:45 PM

I just can’t get over how many people say this is no big deal…

About that Opt Out… It didn’t work for everyone.

Like many others, I won’t get it for my children until the risk to benefit ratio looks a lot better than it does now. I don’t want to face what these families have experienced.

According to the most recent CDC stats (2007) a little over 4000 women died of cervical cancer that year, in the entire country. That’s horrible, but hardly the pandemic the rush to mandate a controversial and questionably safe vaccine would suggest, or Perry’s rather heated rhetoric following the bill rescinding his EO. People can brush it aside by saying ‘oh, well, it never went through, blah blah…’ but it obviously isn’t because Perry didn’t try to force it. Again, this calls into question the sincerity of his apology for me.

And the safety is questionable. I don’t care if the CDC does endorse it. I guess I just don’t automatically trust everything a governmental agency tells me these days. The vaccine was fast tracked through the testing process. Why? Again, this isn’t for some highly contagious pandemic.

There were more adverse reactions from the vaccine, including up to 20 or more deaths, than deaths from the disease it is meant to prevent. Plus, there is very good success with curing cervical cancer when caught early with testing. According to the American Cancer Society, cervical cancer rates dropped by 74% between 1955 and 1992, primarily due to more aggressive screening.

One of the lead researchers on the vaccine, Dr. Diane Harper, said,(at the time of the Perry mandate,) there had been no efficacy tests run on anyone under 15, yet the mandate was for children as young as 11.

Why the rush to mandate this particular vaccine? In a very anti-nanny-state state like Texas? Just bad judgment on his part? If so, even that is a big problem, isn’t it?

Regardless of how anyone feels about vaccinations, (and I’m not anti-vaccine; I had my children vaccinated with most, though I am against this one and a few others) a great many believe Perry’s action on Gardasil was a huge goon. I am definitely one of them.

pannw on September 12, 2011 at 11:46 PM

Perry will need to get more than Texans to vote for him.

gryphon202 on September 12, 2011 at 11:40 PM

The general populace won’t give a crap about this issue – or, the only thing they’ll know about it, is that crazy religious zealots in the Republican Party want little girls to get cervical cancer as punishment for their whorish behavior.

Yeah, that’s how it will shake out. How ’bout Bachmann and Santorum push their own credentials, instead of doing Obama’s dirty work for him.

notropis on September 12, 2011 at 11:47 PM

…Gardasil is all they have been able to hit him on after 11 years as a governor. It will take more than that to knock him out.

maables on September 12, 2011 at 11:43 PM

Trans-Texas Corridor? Aga Khan? His dubious and politically expedient stance on AZ SB1080? Oh, there’s plenty. I think we can do better.

gryphon202 on September 12, 2011 at 11:48 PM

gryphon202 on September 12, 2011 at 11:39 PM

Thank you.

I’ve responded, but I’m afraid I must have used too many links. Hopefully it is just in moderation and not lost in blogosphere purgatory. Not that most would read it anyway…

pannw on September 12, 2011 at 11:49 PM

The general populace won’t give a crap about this issue – or, the only thing they’ll know about it, is that crazy religious zealots in the Republican Party want little girls to get cervical cancer as punishment for their whorish behavior.

How about this, douchebag? Parents should be able to determine if they want to vaccinate their children against sexually transmitted disease.

Yeah, that’s how it will shake out. How ’bout Bachmann and Santorum push their own credentials, instead of doing Obama’s dirty work for him.

notropis on September 12, 2011 at 11:47 PM

And how about you quit shitting your pants over Obama before the nomination process starts, hmm?

gryphon202 on September 12, 2011 at 11:49 PM

Now, the fact that those four years were awful should really be explored…

KingGold on September 12, 2011 at 10:39 PM

I was throwing things at the TV after he said “I’ve been in the private sector my whole life”.

I would have interrupted with “If I were you, I would try to forget my 4 years in government passing ObamaCare 1.0″.

faraway on September 12, 2011 at 11:49 PM

Trans-Texas Corridor? Aga Khan? His dubious and politically expedient stance on AZ SB1080? Oh, there’s plenty. I think we can do better.

gryphon202 on September 12, 2011 at 11:48 PM

Trans Texas Corridor is a non-issue. Most of the towns in the proposed path of the highway were looking forward to it. Many states have toll roads….I live in Texas was not an issue for me.

You are free to feel we can do better. I don’t see one person on that stage better.

maables on September 12, 2011 at 11:51 PM

gryphon202 on September 12, 2011 at 11:49 PM

Wow. “Douchebag?” “Shit my pants?”

Thank God you’re a Christian. And thanks for avoiding ad hominems and sticking to logic.

notropis on September 12, 2011 at 11:54 PM

How about this, douchebag? Parents should be able to determine if they want to vaccinate their children against sexually transmitted disease.

We did have the ability to opt out. It was not going to forced upon us. I know a ton of parents that have had their child vaccinated for hpv. With the outrageous std rate we have I understand why. I haven’t just yet still weighing the long term effects. But I don’t think it’s fair to act as if it was forced upon us like we had no say so in the issue.

maables on September 12, 2011 at 11:54 PM

You are free to feel we can do better. I don’t see one person on that stage better.

maables on September 12, 2011 at 11:51 PM

I’d vote for Michele Bachmann over Rick Perry if I had the choice. Unfortunately, I think Bachmann is dead in the water after having two ranking members of her campaign staff quit. In all honesty, I’d vote for Perry over Romney in a heartbeat. But just because “people were looking forward to” the TTC doesn’t mean it didn’t involve massive amounts of eminent domain abuse and the potential to cripple Texan agriculture.

So why hasn’t Texan agriculture suffered? Why hasn’t enough land been taken for eminent domain to hand over to the private company that was going to build and administer the network of toll roads (since several branches from the main artery would have had to have been converted in the original plan’s “no compete” clause)? Cause it’s another example of the legislature cleaning up Perry’s mess. They refused to fund the original plan, and ever since, the legislature has pigeonholed one bill after another involving how to get the project jumpstarted again without hurting Texan farmers and ranchers.

gryphon202 on September 12, 2011 at 11:57 PM

Michelle’s desperate attempt to smear the HPV issue and crony capitalism for political gain cost her my support.

gman43 on September 12, 2011 at 11:59 PM

Michelle’s desperate attempt to smear the HPV issue and crony capitalism for political gain cost her my support.

gman43 on September 12, 2011 at 11:59 PM

Let’s not give any creedence to the fact it’s true.

wheelgun on September 13, 2011 at 12:04 AM

gryphon202 on September 12, 2011 at 11:39 PM

It’s sweet that you care so much about a vaccination and Texans. The majority of us really have moved on from this issue. But thanks for your concern. It sounds like you have strong feelings about a different candidate. Good for you. I hope that you are able to work for and contribute to that person in their bid for the nomination. I prefer Rick Perry, but isn’t it great that we each have the freedom to make our own choice? We all should want what is best for America. I am so thankful that our Founding Fathers realized that we needed a process to help us in that endeavor. Goodnight.

redwhiteblue on September 13, 2011 at 12:09 AM

Okay, my post must be lost. So, about that Opt Out… It wasnt’ going to work for everyone.

pannw on September 13, 2011 at 12:13 AM

If Gardasil is proven safe long term and still contained an opt out .. I can see where it may get brought up by other states as well as Texas. Unfortunately, our children are sexually active at young ages. I read a stat that 80% of all women are infected with some sort of hpv strain. 100,000 new cases each year. It not only protects against cervical cancer but also … vulva, vaginal and anal cancers. Apparently, even men are getting it to prevent genital warts and anal cancer.

So I guess the question is .. when do these infections become large enough that it should be addressed by our government? I don’t know the answer. And at this point I have not vaccinated my 16 yo or 12 yo daughters. But it is interesting to look at the facts and wonder why I’ve been too afraid to get the vaccination???

maables on September 13, 2011 at 12:16 AM

But I don’t think it’s fair to act as if it was forced upon us like we had no say so in the issue.

maables on September 12, 2011 at 11:54 PM

You didn’t. The legislature didn’t get to vote on it. What part of “political suicide” don’t you understand? ALL vaccine mandates nationwide have some form of opt-out provision. That was not a good-faith show of concern on Perry’s part.

gryphon202 on September 13, 2011 at 12:16 AM

Wow. “Douchebag?” “Shit my pants?”

Thank God you’re a Christian. And thanks for avoiding ad hominems and sticking to logic.

notropis on September 12, 2011 at 11:54 PM

How do you know I’m a Christian? I don’t talk religion here unless it’s to poke fun at cheeky atheists. And as for my “ad hominems,” if the shoe fits pal.

gryphon202 on September 13, 2011 at 12:17 AM

Posted in the wrong thread

No one can opt out of iodine salt. Way back in time they found that iodine stops thyroid goiter so they as in the government mandated that all salt for consumption have iodine in it. Under the standard that MB and other take, Iodine should be out of all salt with all in processed food out as well. Have it placed on the shelf in two forms ionized salt or non-iodine salt then you can opt in for iodine to be a vaccine and prevent thyroid goiter.

If they could say in 80 years what was cancer the same way they say what is a thyroid goiter, would they still object. If this vaccine could be placed in a common food then give to people over a life time from birth will they still object as well for some reason.

Is the one sticking point is that it is a sexual transmitted virus and even if woman does not have it they can get it from sexual encounter and giving it at 12 mean that they are now ready for sex, that would be petty. When the Aids vaccine is discovered and is best for a life time protection to give at age 2 under this standard people will still have aids because of the sexual nature and it is not appropriate to give to 2 year old which would mean they are ready for sex or something.

Any rule that the government makes mandatory is just too big of a government, but there are some things that the governments does that the people should be willing to get it without the force. A vaccine of any type (MMR, flu, bird flu , pig flu, Hepatitis, yellow fever, or HPV ect) is one of them.

tjexcite on September 13, 2011 at 12:18 AM

You didn’t. The legislature didn’t get to vote on it. What part of “political suicide” don’t you understand? ALL vaccine mandates nationwide have some form of opt-out provision. That was not a good-faith show of concern on Perry’s part.

I didn’t agree with what he did. I’ve stated that multiple times in many posts. I’m just saying that I was able to opt out. Just as I could opt out for TDAP.

What part of “political suicide” don’t you understand?

Let’s try not to be rude just because I do not share your same opinions.

maables on September 13, 2011 at 12:19 AM

“Texans like everything that Perry has done, except for the mistakes he’s made which we’ve forgiven him for.”

That’s why you want me to vote for him? Really? That’s it? That’s your whole argument, Texan sack lickers? Seriously?

I don’t know what bothers me more; that Perry might be the best we can do come primary time, or that many in Texas will cream themselves over voting for him.

gryphon202 on September 13, 2011 at 12:20 AM

And about Perry’s apology…

Read Perry’s rather heated rhetoric following the bill rescinding his EO. He isn’t sorry he tried to mandate it. He’s sorry it’s become a problem.

I addressed the fact that he makes cervical cancer out to be some horrific pandemic, with links showing it is NOT, too, but they are lost in the blogosphere, apparently, and I have to go to bed. I’m sure we’ll ‘talk’ about it again.

pannw on September 13, 2011 at 12:21 AM

That’s why you want me to vote for him? Really? That’s it? That’s your whole argument, Texan sack lickers? Seriously?

I don’t know what bothers me more; that Perry might be the best we can do come primary time, or that many in Texas will cream themselves over voting for him.

gryphon202 on September 13, 2011 at 12:20 AM

Wow…that’s really all I can say. Can’t get us to agree with you so you start the name calling. Sounds like most Dems.

maables on September 13, 2011 at 12:22 AM

Any rule that the government makes mandatory is just too big of a government, but there are some things that the governments does that the people should be willing to get it without the force. A vaccine of any type (MMR, flu, bird flu , pig flu, Hepatitis, yellow fever, or HPV ect) is one of them.

tjexcite on September 13, 2011 at 12:18 AM

In your list of vaccines, you either willfully neglected or forgot to mention what makes HPV and one of the four available hepatitis vaccines different from the rest: They’re sexually transmitted. All the rest are transmitted by way of what the CDC and WHO call “casual contagion.”

gryphon202 on September 13, 2011 at 12:23 AM

Sounds like most Dems.

maables on September 13, 2011 at 12:22 AM

I’ve been called a closet Obama supporter before. Nothing new about that.

gryphon202 on September 13, 2011 at 12:23 AM

He isn’t sorry he tried to mandate it. He’s sorry it’s become a problem.

pannw on September 13, 2011 at 12:21 AM

*DING DING DING DING DING*

He included an opt-out provision in the hopes that it wouldn’t become a problem. But it has. It’s the big old feathery albatross hanging right around his neck.

gryphon202 on September 13, 2011 at 12:24 AM

Bachmann had better learn fast that the primary season is not for trashing your opponent but to trash the current WH occupant. Her cheap and totally unfounded remark about Merck and Perry was way below the norm and she will lose a lot of credit for that shot. She also acted like the young girls in Texas had actually been injected when they clearly had not. Perry said he was wrong to do it the way he did and not many if any pols have the self confidence or integrity to admit a mistake. Can you imagine Obama doing any such thing? She is coming off as a hysterical attacker without any substance. Romney had better be careful too because he is almost defending the status quo on Medicare. He is offering to fix it but even he knows it is a Ponzi scheme with more taking out than are putting in. At least with Madoff you could “Ask” for your investment back and maybe get it. Not with SS or Medicare. I think ALL of the candidates should get away from “My Record” of doing yada yada yada and go for the solutions to the problems that Obama has created. Every candidate should preface their remarks with “This is how I will fix the problem Obama created”. Perry may not be the one but I can certainly rule out Santorum, Cain, Huntsman, Bachmann and Paul.

inspectorudy on September 13, 2011 at 12:36 AM

Christ on a cracker…Perry was stumbling after Bachmann hit him again and again, and was positively reeling after Santorum’s follow-up. He better polish his game, because he came in several points behind Ron Paul tonight.

MadisonConservative on September 13, 2011 at 12:51 AM

Bachmann just put out a fundraising letter about this.

Dear Fellow Conservative,

I’m offended.

If you watched tonight’s Republican debate, you saw Rick Perry defend his decision to mandate a vaccine for young girls through an executive order while he was governor of Texas. As a mother, I have raised three biological daughters and 23 foster daughters, and I believe taking away a parents right to direct the health care of their children is flat out wrong . It’s a violation of liberty and everything you and I stand for.

Tonight, I also questioned why Governor Perry made this executive order. When you look at the facts, the question becomes, is this about life or is this about millions and potentially billions for the drug company?

We cannot forget that in the midst of the executive order, a big drug company made millions of dollars because of this mandate. This drug company’s PAC made thousands of dollars in political donations to Governor Perry, and his own former Chief of Staff was working as the lobbyist for this drug company when he issued the mandate. This is flat out wrong.

flyfisher on September 13, 2011 at 1:06 AM

Crony capitalism is this weeks Perry’s ponzi scheme. His response to Michelle’s Merck connection was so bad it’s almost caricature…..it was only 5K….good grief.

And to end with a hail mary to his evangelical base with ‘Texas always errs on the side of life’…….someone tweeted…..unless of course we are executing you.

Sarah Palin and Greta really piled onto Perry too….saying that this is what Americans are really tired of from people in government, crony capitalism and Michelle made a serious accusation…..wowza!

Michelle, Rick S and Sarah all bloodied Perry tonight. They made Mitt’s social security flier look kind in comparison.

Mitt faltered a little with the social security exchange with Perry but he held his ground on everything else, shined on answering why health insurance is so expensive, shined when discussing his MassCare law and his knowledge of how America will competent in the world economy was exceptional. Mitt looked presidential, intelligent and handsome.

sheryl on September 13, 2011 at 2:58 AM

Bachmann had better learn fast that the primary season is not for trashing your opponent but to trash the current WH occupant. Her cheap and totally unfounded remark about Merck and Perry was way below the norm and she will lose a lot of credit for that shot.

Before the debate I thought Bachmann would make a good speaker of the house, after?

She can just go away for the way she went after Perry and lied out and out. He was too polite to go after her which is what I thought was HIS mistake.

The government has mandated vaccines for decades if not longer, smallpox for one example.

Perry made it mandatory (yes with an opt out) so the insurance companies would have to pay for it.

gdonovan on September 13, 2011 at 5:30 AM

lexhamfox on September 12, 2011 at 10:33 PM

The word is sarcasm. Perry ably pointed out what a petty and stupid attack it is to lump him in with “crony capitalists.”

MB and RS are desperate as they should be. The both need to shuffle on back to crazy town.

MJBrutus on September 13, 2011 at 7:22 AM

sheryl on September 13, 2011 at 2:58 AM

Puh-lease. The HPV/crony capitalist lark is the non-starter of the season. Those who use it only tarnish their own brand. Be glad that Romney was too smart to board that ship of fools.

MJBrutus on September 13, 2011 at 7:25 AM

HPV quadrivalent vaccine (Gardasil) will not prevent diseases caused by HPV types other than types 6, 11, 16, and 18. There are over 100 different types of HPV.

AZCoyote on September 13, 2011 at 8:26 AM

Is Bachmann aware that all those MANDATORY vaccinations everyone has when they are kids are also MANDATED BY GOVERNMENT?

She REALLY needs to think through her answers.

Perry recognizes, and admits, that he should have done things differently. It takes a big person to admit that they have wronged.
But, her choice of language “innocent 12 yr old girls”…Someone already said it, but I’ll say it again…It’s creepy. Is she trying to paint the picture that Perry is having these girls forcibly taken into back ally-ways, stripped, photographed and vaccinated in front of cameras or something? She needs to watch her unspoken innuendo…It’s going to come back and bite her in the big hair…err…butt.

Talismen on September 13, 2011 at 8:47 AM

Minnesota requires girls to be vaccinated for Hep B which is spread by sex and needles. It also strongly recommends that girls get the HPV vaccine. If Bachmann is so concerned about the eeeeeevils of vaccinating innocent 12 yr old girls against STD’s, then why isn’t she leading a campaign in her own state to have these horrible vaccines removed from the MN vaccination schedule?

bitsy on September 13, 2011 at 9:17 AM

It also strongly recommends that girls get the HPV vaccine. If Bachmann is so concerned about the eeeeeevils of vaccinating innocent 12 yr old girls against STD’s, then why isn’t she leading a campaign in her own state to have these horrible vaccines removed from the MN vaccination schedule?

bitsy on September 13, 2011 at 9:17 AM

strongly recommends < opt-out

MadisonConservative on September 13, 2011 at 10:16 AM

The fascinating thing is that Gov. Perry hasn’t hit upon the right response to the HPV vaccination issue…

It isn’t to say he was wrong, that is the easy way out.

The hard way that will also address the critics is to say:

‘Yes in this instance I had gone against all that I knew of the role of government and mistakenly believed that the power of government can be used to do good. It cannot. It can be used to uphold the good, but when that is done through coercion of the innocent, then that is not only no good but evil in its ends. That siren song of power is so very attractive and I heard it and did as it sang to me to do. I recognize the wrong of that and have had to step back and accept that I have that character flaw and the flaw of hubris that makes me think I can deny that attraction. I recognize that flaw and now I make sure that I stand true to my principles even when the song is so strong, because the principles are enduring and a good end to entrust the good parents of the State of Texas with the hard choices in life as that is their right and their glory to have, not that of government to usurp. I now have those around me to remind me of that, and that I must always allow the greatest freedom and liberty of action to the people I serve, because I am their servant and government is not their master. That I will uphold with all I do in life from here on out. I was wrong and cannot properly make amends for that wrong I caused. And I thank each of my opponents for reminding me of this as it is necessary that we each be reminded of what we seek to do as servants to the people. I am a better man for that, as I know they are better men and women to be reminded of the flaws in their roles as servants to all of us.”

Something along those lines, shortened for brevity, should do pretty nicely, let people know where he stands and why, that he is human, that he can fail, and that he can pick himself up and continue on the better for having failed.

I would like to hear that from a couple of people on that stage… mind you, I am not expecting to hear it as hubris appears larger than humility.

ajacksonian on September 13, 2011 at 10:28 AM

ajacksonian on September 13, 2011 at 10:28 AM

Should he get down on his knees when he says it, perhaps with a priest standing by to take his confession?

MJBrutus on September 13, 2011 at 10:33 AM

Minnesota requires girls to be vaccinated for Hep B which is spread by sex and needles. It also strongly recommends that girls get the HPV vaccine. If Bachmann is so concerned about the eeeeeevils of vaccinating innocent 12 yr old girls against STD’s, then why isn’t she leading a campaign in her own state to have these horrible vaccines removed from the MN vaccination schedule?

bitsy on September 13, 2011 at 9:17 AM

Perhaps because Pawlenty is no longer running against her.

She’s an opportunist. She appeals to a base political mentality and were she to win the nom, Obama would win in a landslide.

So thank god she’ll be histoire by Feb.

She’s an idiot. Palin, for all her own faults, boots her butt to the moon by comparison. Second, Bachmann is clearly becoming a fringe candidate for whatever reason.

THe less we see of her the better. The kook fringe anti-vaccination movt loves her. Let the Green party nominate her.

JP1986UM on September 13, 2011 at 11:47 AM

HPV quadrivalent vaccine (Gardasil) will not prevent diseases caused by HPV types other than types 6, 11, 16, and 18. There are over 100 different types of HPV.

AZCoyote on September 13, 2011 at 8:26 AM

THat’s because those are the one’s that CAUSE a genetic alteration in the DNA and mRNA, affect protein production in cells and basically cause a cell to become non-responsive to an apoptotic signal.

But you knew that from taking Genetics 5051, Medical Biochemistry 5020, Medical Pathology 6022, and Internal Medicine Clerkship along with OB-GYN 7011 in Medical school right?

Just checking.

JP1986UM on September 13, 2011 at 11:53 AM

JP1986UM on September 13, 2011 at 11:47 AM

She is worse than that. Not only is she nuts, but she has no ideas. All she can put on the table is “repeal this and repeal that.” Well that’s jut fine, but it only stops some of the bleeding and does nothing to solve our problems.

MJBrutus on September 13, 2011 at 11:55 AM

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