Round two: Romney vs. Perry on Social Security

posted at 9:12 pm on September 12, 2011 by Allahpundit

Via Gateway Pundit, the exchange of the night thus far and the answer to the key question before the debate. Namely, would Perry retreat from his book and call for saving Social Security or would he double down on the idea of radical change? The answer: Er, yes. He says outright here that he won’t take the program away; earlier he declared, “The people who are on Social Security today need to understand something, slam-dunk guaranteed: That program is gonna be in place.” But as you’ll see, he also reaffirms his interest in giving the states a bigger role. Where does that leave seniors who might have been jittery after the first debate about what he’d do with a free hand on entitlements?

Granting that “politics ain’t beanbag,” Romney’s starting to grate when attacking on this issue. By the time we get to the Florida debates, he’ll be fanning himself onstage whenever Perry says “Ponzi scheme” to keep from being overcome by the vapors. I hope he’s convincing centrists because he’s surely alienating some base voters.

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Social Security? Perry has just been beaten up on by a couple of others over that forced immunization plan. I’m guessing that will be one of the biggest take-aways from this debate.

Drained Brain on September 12, 2011 at 9:14 PM

They both looked foolish. They didn’t debate the subject they debated what to call the subject.

KBird on September 12, 2011 at 9:16 PM

Robamaney is pandering to voters, as is his M.O., hence his flip flopapaloozas, that are evident from his political career. He is an empty suit, like Obama, willing to say anything to get elected but without any core principles other than getting elected and amassing power. We’ve had one of those for the past four years, and I don’t want another lite version for the next four years.

eaglewingz08 on September 12, 2011 at 9:16 PM

We have an expression down here: Sh!t or get off the pot.

RDE2010 on September 12, 2011 at 9:17 PM

Yeah. That was jetboy.

“Don’t tase me, bro!”

victor82 on September 12, 2011 at 9:20 PM

Perry did well. But took his lumps on the vagasil. We’ll see how it goes on illegal immigration. Glad huntsman pounded on Mittness.

AH_C on September 12, 2011 at 9:27 PM

Yeah, Romney is turning me off and Michelle Bachmann is acting and talking toooooo desparately. She reminds me of a losing boxer throwing a bunch of haymakers hopeing one of the them lands.

aigle on September 12, 2011 at 9:28 PM

Women’s vaginas creates all sorts of problems in the least likely venues.

Apologetic California on September 12, 2011 at 9:38 PM

Perry did well. But took his lumps on the vagasil. We’ll see how it goes on illegal immigration.
AH_C on September 12, 2011 at 9:27 PM

ROTFLING…

Er, the controversy is over Gardisil not Vagisil.

Buy Danish on September 12, 2011 at 9:39 PM

Michele Bachman and Rick Santorum are attempting to single handedly turn off Hispanic voter in the nation. Why is that troll Santorum in this race?

Jdripper on September 12, 2011 at 9:40 PM

Michele Bachman and Rick Santorum are attempting to single handedly turn off Hispanic voter in the nation. Why is that troll Santorum in this race?

Jdripper on September 12, 2011 at 9:40 PM

A friend just said “I’m sick of these Northeasterners telling us about border control. WTH do they know about it? What foreign country do they border?”

Pennsylvania’s greatest border issue is keeping inexpensive liquor from crossing state lines. (Those of you with unionized state-controlled liquor stores will understand.)

obladioblada on September 12, 2011 at 9:46 PM

Perry won that exchange. Sure it was a partisan crowd, but you can tell Mittens is pandering and doesn’t believe a word he’s saying.

Doughboy on September 12, 2011 at 9:49 PM

Perry did well. But took his lumps on the vagasil. We’ll see how it goes on illegal immigration.
AH_C on September 12, 2011 at 9:27 PM

OMG

lexhamfox on September 12, 2011 at 10:01 PM

Romney is a whiny litte girl isn’t he?

Theworldisnotenough on September 12, 2011 at 10:10 PM

How is the government behaving better than Enron?

Investing in Enron was a choice, though most certainly under false pretenses in most cases.

A working person must pay their SS tax, as well as their employer. There is no opting out.

Enron falsified their income statements, the government spent SS money which should have been held in trust, replacing them with worthless IOUs.

The principals of Enron were prosecuted, the politicians are free to lie, pay their political patronage with our money, and demagogue their way to re-election.

The mostly retarded politicians are defending their crimes and FDR’s legacy by saying SS is not “technically” a Ponzi scheme because it isn’t illegal. It is not illegal because politicians made a law to legitimize the theft of our money. If it was done in the private sector, there would be people in prison.

Long live the king.

LA Conservative on September 12, 2011 at 10:14 PM

ROTFLING…

Er, the controversy is over Gardisil not Vagisil.

Buy Danish on September 12, 2011 at 9:39 PM

I wish one of the candidates had referred to Vagisil. It’s a much funnier word.

flyfisher on September 12, 2011 at 10:14 PM

Er, the controversy is over Gardisil not Vagisil.

Buy Danish on September 12, 2011 at 9:39

gardisil, vagasil, whatevs. I’ll never use any of them. :p

AH_C on September 12, 2011 at 10:15 PM

Romney is a whiny litte girl isn’t he?

Theworldisnotenough on September 12, 2011 at 10:10 PM

No doubt. He’s a typical Harvard Law slime.

flyfisher on September 12, 2011 at 10:16 PM

Perry did well. But took his lumps on the vagasil. We’ll see how it goes on illegal immigration.
AH_C on September 12, 2011 at 9:27 PM

ROTFLING…

Er, the controversy is over Gardisil not Vagisil.

Buy Danish on September 12, 2011 at 9:39 PM

All those female plumbing terms sound the same.

slickwillie2001 on September 12, 2011 at 10:20 PM

All those female plumbing terms sound the same.’

slickwillie2001 on September 12, 2011 at 10:20 PM

ROFLMAO @ ‘female plumbing terms.’ You sound like my poor husband. :-D

CantCureStupid on September 12, 2011 at 10:34 PM

A friend just said “I’m sick of these Northeasterners telling us about border control. WTH do they know about it? What foreign country do they border?”

obladioblada on September 12, 2011 at 9:46 PM

We must be doing a lousy job of border security in New York the outlet malls in Niagara Falls are just crawling with Candadians that come in by the busloads./s

KW64 on September 12, 2011 at 11:20 PM

What is wrong with states running their own Social Security like retirement programs? The Federalism idea of 50 laboratories of democracy serving to allow experimenting to see what works and what doesn’t could have shown a lot of opportunities for improvement. I bet you would not have had very many of the 50 states that would have done as bad a job as the Federal government in preserving the program’s solvency.

KW64 on September 12, 2011 at 11:24 PM

KW64 on September 12, 2011 at 11:24 PM

How about people being responsible for their own savings, like in the days before SS? I’d much rather depend on myself than on the government. If I had been able to invest what I’ve paid in, I’d have a comfortable nest egg and not have to worry about it disappearing because the government spent it already.

Common Sense on September 12, 2011 at 11:45 PM

Rethinking Bastiat and Broken Windows: Amity Shlaes
“Life, liberty and property do not exist because men have made laws,” Bastiat said. “On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” The perversity was that laws often legalize plunder, or “spoliation,” as Bastiat put it. Laws take from someone, and give to someone else, even though this was not always the intention of their authors. Such plunder could hurt an economy by reallocating resources from productive areas to ones that were politically rewarding.

LA Conservative on September 12, 2011 at 11:49 PM

Oh. My. Gosh.

Romney totally 8itch slapped Perry.

csdeven on September 13, 2011 at 12:18 AM

How about people being responsible for their own savings, like in the days before SS? I’d much rather depend on myself than on the government. If I had been able to invest what I’ve paid in, I’d have a comfortable nest egg and not have to worry about it disappearing because the government spent it already.

Common Sense on September 12, 2011 at 11:45 PM

Because, human nature being what it is, we would end up with a lot of people with no income of any type at the end of their working years. Bonus question for extra points:
Is the country willing to watch large numbers of people starve and freeze to death or be reduced to begging because their retirement investment was lost? It is somewhat similar to the folks who refuse to own health insurance because they don’t think they need it. When they need medical care, we end up paying for it anyway. Should we, as a country just refuse medical care to them?

a capella on September 13, 2011 at 12:36 AM

I thought those two looked familiar.

mmnowakjr85 on September 13, 2011 at 12:52 AM

If Romney were a Democrat, in what way would he act differently?

Socratease on September 13, 2011 at 12:54 AM

Perry won that exchange.

Doughboy on September 12, 2011 at 9:49 PM

He would have if hadn’t lied about what Mitt wrote in his book. Really, Rick? You can’t debate Romney without lying? It’s not that hard if you’re right, you know.

Ronnie on September 13, 2011 at 1:44 AM

To Whom It May Concern:

It’s called PASSION, people. Some possess it & it shows, 1 way or another, to 1 extent or another.

It’s called being smart, of/by/for the US Constitution. Some are smart & it shows, 1 way or another, to 1 extent or another.

Some think it’s ‘I’m in charge, now. We’re in charge, now.’ That attitude is a major mistake.

So…

What is the right attitude? What is the just attitude. What is Right & Just is RightJust/Righteous.

Also…

This debate is directly related to the Tea Party.

Some people ask: ‘Who is the leader of the Tea Party?’

WHO? 1st of all, maybe, it’s really about WHAT.

In essence, the US Constitution is the leader of the Tea Party.

GET REAL: Overall, from past, in the present, & into the future: Ron Paul most closely lines up with this political philosophy.

Each candidate’s got his/her good points; some, more especially & more exceptionally so than others.

Please save yourselves from projecting & commenting based upon whatever’s going on inside your lower ego:

‘Leggo Your Eggo.’

Ideally, to the core, the higher ego within us all is to line up just right with the US Constitution, to the greatest extent possible in this world of today, with everyone & everything else involved, both directly & remotely, and in-between; going with a good attitude, taking 1 good step at a time, all at a good pace.

So…

Let’s make the IDEAL the REAL.

Onward & Upward, May We The People of the US Go.

MAY *G* BLESS THE US & MAKE EVERYTHING ESPECIALLY & EXCEPTIONALLY GOOD FOR THE US; WITHIN & ALL AROUND, AS IS DESERVED & AS IS RESERVED.

Now…

Let’s get to it.

ABLOGMAN on September 13, 2011 at 6:51 AM

Because, human nature being what it is, we would end up with a lot of people with no income of any type at the end of their working years.

And why exactly is anyone else’s failure to act responsibly on their own behalf my problem?

Stephen Macklin on September 13, 2011 at 7:13 AM

Perry helped himself on SS. He assured people that he isn’t going to take their checks away. Even though it’s a Ponzi scheme we cannot reverse history and it is part of our nation to stay for a very long time. I wanted to hear specifics from both he and Romney about how they will reform the system, but neither is willing to commit to a plan.

As for the vaccination canard, he showed that it was simply silly and those who use it only showed what desperate nut jobs they are. He did it because he cared about stopping a horrible disease. He admits he went too far. He put paid to the nonsense that he did it because he was bought.

MJBrutus on September 13, 2011 at 7:46 AM

I am liking Perry more as a Presidential candidate more than I have liked him as governor.

jeffn21 on September 13, 2011 at 8:37 AM

FACT……

The Ending of all PONZI schemes are never pretty.

roflmao

donabernathy on September 13, 2011 at 8:39 AM

What is wrong with states running their own Social Security like retirement programs? The Federalism idea of 50 laboratories of democracy serving to allow experimenting to see what works and what doesn’t could have shown a lot of opportunities for improvement. I bet you would not have had very many of the 50 states that would have done as bad a job as the Federal government in preserving the program’s solvency.

KW64 on September 12, 2011 at 11:24 PM

If California ran Social Security for its residents in the same way as it handled state worker pensions, it would probably be deeper in debt with no taxpayers from other states to bail it out.

Also, what about people who pay SS taxes during their working life in one state, then move to another state (FL and AZ are popular destinations) for retirement? States with high percentages of retired people would have trouble finding revenues to keep Social Security solvent.

Romney is correct that it WAS “criminal” for Congress to take money from the SS trust fund, which was intended to pay benefits to future retirees, for Federal spending on other purposes, and Congress members of BOTH parties have been guilty of this. People who have been caught taking money from private pension funds to make dubious personal investments HAVE gone to jail. There does need to be a “lock box” on Social Security so that payroll taxes can ONLY be used to pay retirees, an idea that was also proposed by…Al Gore in 2000.

Social Security DOES need a massive, drastic reform, and Perry and Romney both agree that the program needs to be preserved for future generations, although they may disagree on HOW it should be reformed. Rather than sniping at each other over who wrote what in a book, it would be much better for Romney and Perry to put out concrete, specific proposals on Social Security reform, and let the voters decide which program seems more feasible.

Steve Z on September 13, 2011 at 10:12 AM