Open thread: The “hey, let’s talk about Social Security for two hours” debate
posted at 7:43 pm on September 12, 2011 by Allahpundit
8 p.m. ET on CNN. There’ll be other attacks on Perry tonight, whether for his allegedly “atrocious” immigration record or for the perks he’s enjoyed as governor as part of the “crony capitalism” meme, but entitlements are the jugular. Remind me again, then: Why are we obsessing over Social Security when it’s universally understood among politicos that Medicare is a much bigger/more immediate problem? Perry’s suggested that the states should have greater control over that program too, so there’s nothing stopping Romney from throwing roundhouses at him for allegedly wanting to pull the plug on grandma or whatever. Any theories? Any explanation for why Mitt Romney might not want to turn the debate towards a discussion of state-provided health care?
Marc Thiessen spies an opening for Perry if he’s willing to exploit it:
In his address to Congress last week, Obama proposed a 50 percent cut in the payroll taxes that fund Social Security. Obama’s plan would extend and deepen the one-year cut he signed into law last year, reducing both employee and employer contributions from 6.2 to 3.1 percent through 2012. This would rob the Social Security trust fund of about $175 billion in financing next year (money Obama would replace with new debt). Obama’s proposal is generating opposition from conservatives on Capitol Hill. Rep. Pete Sessions (R-Tex.) says “it is a horrible idea” to cut the amount of money Americans pay into Social Security at a time when the program is at risk of insolvency.
This creates an opportunity for Perry to go after Obama for gutting the Social Security trust fund — pointing out that last year, for the first time in three decades, Social Security spent more on benefits than it collected in payroll taxes, and that Obama’s actions are making the program even more financially unsound.
But Obama is not the only politician who announced last week that he wants to dip into Social Security’s coffers. In his newly released economic blueprint, Mitt Romney endorsed . . . a payroll tax cut. It would be fair for Perry to ask how Romney can claim that that he wants to “save” Social Security when his own economic plan would raid the Social Security trust fund?
Yeah, I don’t know. Perry needs to polish his messaging on this but “more money for Social Security” may be, shall we say, a bit too polished. Over at the Corner, Mark Steyn and Rich Lowry are hammering Romney for pursuing a strategy on this issue that plays directly into the image of him as a cynical, calculating flip-flopper who’ll say what he needs to say to get elected. I’ve made that point before myself, but let me play devil’s advocate: Is there anything Romney could say or do at this point to erase that image? It’s priced into his stock. He’s making a bet, not unreasonably, that in the end most Republican primary voters care chiefly about unseating Obama, not who does the unseating. If Mitt can convince them that Perry would be a risk in the general, they’ll tilt towards him, cynicism and all. This is the byproduct of the base believing that Obama’s the worst president ever: In theory, the truer that is, the more important electability will be in the nominee.
While we wait, here’s a snippet of Rush Limbaugh’s long monologue today warning Romney and Bachmann not to demagogue the “Ponzi scheme” point lest their own past rhetoric to that effect be used against them. True enough: Bachmann called Social Security a “tremendous fraud” just last year and Romney’s new best friend, Tim Pawlenty, explicitly described it as a “Ponzi scheme” — twice! — on CNBC in December 2009. Rush claims, though, that Romney’s describing the program in these terms in order to ingratiate himself with the media. Is that right? Remember this data point from April of last year:
“TP” stands for tea partiers, of course. Even Republican voters love their entitlements, enough so at least to want to keep them around so that they can get a return on their FICA investment/Ponzi contribution. Here’s the clip; below that, as always, you’ll find the handy dandy Hot Air/Townhall Twitter widget for live updates during the debate. Happy watching.
Blowback
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Oh, get off your high horse. I put every candidate under a microscope, and have suggested candidates that have better conservative records than others. Just amazing how many people whine about efforts to hold prospective elected officials accountable before we start paying them a huge salary to direct the course of our lives in this nation.
MadisonConservative on September 13, 2011 at 1:20 AM
What I enjoy is how you isolate a single small component of the argument and go to town to show your superior intellect, while ignoring the substance of what I said. Okay, maybe you do have kids. Doesn’t sound like it. Especially when you get so defensive.
John the Libertarian on September 13, 2011 at 1:21 AM
YOU LOVE CANCER. RICK PERRY HATE CANCER. YOU ALSO HATE PEOPLE WITH MEXICAN LAST NAMES. PERRY 2012!
MadisonConservative on September 13, 2011 at 1:21 AM
Hey, you’re the one who seems to know when people “clearly” don’t.
Hint: don’t ever use that stupid, condescending and disrespectful debate tactic. I don’t care if you have kids or not. Either way, it doesn’t make your opinion on a political issue any more valid. I’m sick and goddamned tired of the “I have children, therefore you must agree, or you don’t care about children” bulls**t.
MadisonConservative on September 13, 2011 at 1:24 AM
Who’s on their high horse, now? I’m not going around acting like the High Inquisitor of True Conservatism, disqualifying this or that candidate for something I’d defend if my own guy did it. And don’t say you wouldn’t. I would, you would, everyone on this site would.
And I know you’re not a Palinista, but give me a break. She’s throwing bricks at the candidates for participating in a debate she has not deigned to participate in herself. Maybe a “real conservative” actually risks their standing to take their case to the American people.
KingGold on September 13, 2011 at 1:24 AM
After reviewing three articles covering the vaccination program, there was apparently no credible justification for mandating this program upon girls in the public school system. I can understand why parents were scared, and sufficiently angered, to impel the Texas legislature to overwhelmingly overrule their own party’s governor on this matter.
Prior to this close examination, it seemed that Governor Perry had an advantage against Governor Romney, as he would obviously attack Romney on Romneycare. However, this vaccination program, at best, reflects poor judgment, and at worse, it raises questions about Governor Perry’s motives and integrity. He will be attacked hard by Representative Bachmann, and others, on this matter. Governor Perry’s argument that this was motivated by his desire to protect life is simply not credible given the performance of the vaccine, as reflected in the quotation below.
“Dr. Harper explained that 90 percent of HPV infections resolve themselves after 2 years, and that the vast majority of those cases (70 percent) actually resolve unaided in under one year’s time.
Moreover, the number of cervical cancer cases in the United States is so low that vaccines and PAP screenings would not lower the cervical cancer rate unless 70 percent of the population was vaccinated. And even then, the cancer rate decrease would be minimal.
According to Dr. Harper, preventative measures and traditional therapies have already cut the cervical cancer rate by 4 percent a year. With these current treatments, she said, HPV will be nearly eradicated in 60 years. Gardasil could not claim to do as much as traditional care is already doing, even if 70 percent of the women received vaccinations and booster shots in that same period of time, Dr. Harper explained.
Essentially, the risks of adverse side effects caused by the vaccine are much greater then the risks of developing cervical cancer.”
http://www.beasleyallen.com/news/hpv-vaccine-developer-speaks-out-against-gardasil-cervarix/
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2011/06/04/rick_perrys_gardasil_problem_110089.html
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/08/19/cbsnews_investigates/main5253431.shtml
SheetAnchor on September 13, 2011 at 1:25 AM
MadisonConservative on September 13, 2011 at 1:21 AM
Heh. I was almost 20 before I even got asked out for the first time.
INCLUDING the ex-husband and and the husband I’ve had a grand total of FOUR boyfriends.
In hindsight it was a good thing-because it kept me out of trouble.
You can’t get a social disease if you’re not being social.
That’s easy.
annoyinglittletwerp on September 13, 2011 at 1:26 AM
How does my decision, as an adult, take away from the compulsory mandate of having to be vaccinated?
John the Libertarian on September 13, 2011 at 1:26 AM
You’re childless.
John the Libertarian on September 13, 2011 at 1:27 AM
All right. Stop that right now. It’s over the line and irrelevant besides.
KingGold on September 13, 2011 at 1:28 AM
No, it’s not. If MadCon doesn’t have children, he/she shouldn’t be spouting off like an expert about children. It’s a whole different world.
John the Libertarian on September 13, 2011 at 1:30 AM
MadCon: As I said-I support Perry. He was still wrong about the vaccine. I’m not one that assumes that teenagers are going to be having sex. I certainly wasn’t. Pushing a vaccine like that assumes the opposite. It’s like making sure teenagers carry condoms around because we assume that they’re going to need them instead of telling them that if they don’t keep it zipped(or keep legs shut) that you’ll be disappointed in them. You appeal to be better side of their nature.
annoyinglittletwerp on September 13, 2011 at 1:31 AM
John the Libertarian on September 13, 2011 at 1:30 AM
Yeah-but some of it is just common sense.
I had a big clue about teenagers before I actually found myself w/one.
annoyinglittletwerp on September 13, 2011 at 1:32 AM
John the Libertarian on September 13, 2011 at 1:30 AM
He-and he’s a fairly newlywed.
annoyinglittletwerp on September 13, 2011 at 1:33 AM
Then drop the issue. Behind the veil of a screen name, everyone is a Harvard-genius Olympian with three black belts and twenty years of military service.
Leave the personal crap out of this and debate the issue on its merits.
KingGold on September 13, 2011 at 1:33 AM
John the Libertarian on September 13, 2011 at 1:30 AM
Using your reasoning men shouldn’t have an opinion about abortion nor whites/Asians/males about affirmative action.
annoyinglittletwerp on September 13, 2011 at 1:35 AM
It’s not something. It’s a pattern of somethings. Patterns I’ve laid out, and which, apparently, regardless of how they mount up, only seem to you to be quibbles.
I don’t. I like Palin the best so far, but she has given a squishy answer on the border. However, it’s not as definitive or comprehensively disturbing as Perry’s(e-verify, bi-national health insurance, Trans-Texas Corridor). Don’t impugn my integrity, jack.
I love how litmus tests are inappropriate until you yourself use them. If you’re being sarcastic, then just say that you have personal issues with the woman, and make it clear that you’re just taking cheap shots. Palin will enter if she wants to do so. In the meantime, how is she under any obligation to keep her mouth shut? I swear, you’re pissy about her criticizing the candidates, you’re pissy about me and others doing it…what is your deal? These are people asking for high-paying jobs whose duties involve making decisions that affect the lives of everyone in this country. Quit treating them with kid gloves.
MadisonConservative on September 13, 2011 at 1:36 AM
“If you don’t have a gun, you shouldn’t be spouting off about gun rights.”
“If you’re not a woman, you shouldn’t be spouting off about abortion.”
“If you’re unemployed, you shouldn’t be spouting off about taxes.”
If you’re using that kind of logic, then frankly, you shouldn’t be spouting off about anything. Your children don’t make your opinions any more valuable. Get off your damned pedestal.
MadisonConservative on September 13, 2011 at 1:38 AM
I’m late to the party because I could only catch the repeat just now.
Perry won. He does need to defend himself better, however. When Bachmann outright lied about the HPV vaccination — that “innocent little girls were forced” to have the shot — he needed to reiterate that there was an opt-out and that as soon as the citizens of TX pushed back, he listened and therefore not one “little girl” ever was given the shot. At least when Santorum argued it, he did it honestly with his, “have an opt-in, not an opt-out” (Perry did it the way he did to force the insurance companies to pay, but Santorum was still more honest than Bachmann who lied).
Also, when Huntsman said that Perry saying that “we can’t secure the border” was “treasonous”, Perry needed to say that that is not what he had just said. What he had just one minute earlier said was that we can’t do it with a wall because we can’t build one that long; he said walls work in urban areas and that the way to secure the border is with boots on the ground — 4500 border patrol agents. Perry needed to demand a chance to respond to Huntsman’s lie.
Romney finally looked ruffled. He wasn’t “above the fray” anymore and he was totally wrong on SS and Romneycare.
Bachmann lied about Perry as I already said and was outright rude to Perry as he was responding directly to her accusation, she kept her back to him! She would not look at him. Her schtick of a mother fighting for “innocent little girls” is silly.
Cain rocked! There have been times in the past where he has driven me crazy (walking back his “no Muslims in my cabinet” being the most annoying) but he was great tonight.
Gingrich, as always, was fabulous. He tried valiantly again to remind the candidates on the stage that it’s Obama we should be fighting. All this bloodying of Perry is ridiculous. The candidates who engage in that make themselves look desperate, esp. when they do so with lies.
Santorum did brilliantly against Paul’s 9/11 garbage. I was glad to finally hear the audience boo, ’bout time! I understand that Paul has some ‘bots there so the clapping is one thing, but for the sane members of the audience to have at first remained silent while he was attacking America was embarrassing; Santorum riled them up.
Huntsman lied and looked like he had no idea what he was talking about (that Afghan question was a WTF? moment for sure).
Paul’s a kook and I’m glad his mask came off. What an idiot.
Glad that most of the questions came from actual Tea Partiers and not CNN.
Oh, two more things: when the candidates first came out, some shook hands with everyone, some only with the one closest on the stage, but Bachmann and Romney kissed and Romney’s mic picked up his “mmmm-wah!” GROSS! Be professional and shake hands, just because she’s a woman doesn’t mean she should kiss and be kissed. And my last point was that the question “How can you attract Latinos to vote for you” [which implied we were talking about LEGAL Latinos], not one answered with the right one which should be: “Republicans do not play identity poilitcs. Latino-Americans want what everybody else wants and that’s JOBS.” Instead it turned into an illegal-immigration thing.
-Aslan’s Girl
Aslans Girl on September 13, 2011 at 1:40 AM
You think I’ve ignored the candidates? Maybe I, unlike you, judge the strength of a candidate using the “snowball’s chance against Obama in November” measure as a factor. And God forbid if I’d rather get Obama out of the White House with a candidate who’s weak on one or two things rather than get spanked with someone whose political acumen is limited to pounding the table and “firing up a crowd.”
I don’t vote for someone to “annoy the media” or “make ideological points.” Candidates who run on ideology and nothing else are losers.
KingGold on September 13, 2011 at 1:41 AM
Aslans Girl on September 13, 2011 at 1:40 AM
Bachmann’s antics cost her a lot of respect from me and mine. She sounded desperate.
annoyinglittletwerp on September 13, 2011 at 1:50 AM
And I repeat, Anybody But Obama is a dangerous disease that very well could lead to Bush Part II, with more spending, more “compassionate conservatism”, and little to no help in overturning the damage done by the last two administrations.
MadisonConservative on September 13, 2011 at 1:51 AM
Reagan was an ideologue. Reagan backed a loser to the hilt in 1964. Reagan used the kind of rhetoric used by those you consider “unelectable”. How many times did he lose a presidential race?
MadisonConservative on September 13, 2011 at 1:53 AM
None of your examples compare. Sorry.
It’s not a pedestal. It’s a different world altogether. And you would know that and not be battling me on it.
John the Libertarian on September 13, 2011 at 1:53 AM
Yes, they do. Anyone can make children. Having them doesn’t necessarily make one wiser. Clearly.
MadisonConservative on September 13, 2011 at 1:55 AM
Wrong. Try again. Reagan ran on a record of two terms as governor of California, and a long record of involvement in conservative politics besides.
To say he primaried Ford as “just an ideologue” would be comparing him to Christine O’Donnell, and that’s not a comparison you should be standing on.
KingGold on September 13, 2011 at 2:00 AM
Excellent summary, Aslan’s girl! For some of us who caught only the tail end of the debate because of other commitments, that was really wonderful and, from the little I watched, spot on.
Personally, I wouldn’t be surprised if Bachmann throws her meagre support to Romney after dropping out. I believe the only reason why she is still hanging on is just to prevent Perry from winning Iowa. I do not think it will work, though, and she might still prove me wrong by backing Perry.
TheRightMan on September 13, 2011 at 2:06 AM
annoyinglittletwerp on September 13, 2011 at 1:50 AM
She did indeed look desperate, which I guess she is with her poll numbers sliding, but she shouldn’t let us see her sweat. Oh, and is she going to be blonde at the next debate? Her hair is getting lighter and lighter, lol.
-Aslan’s Girl
Aslans Girl on September 13, 2011 at 2:12 AM
If there was proof it would have already been shown during the last election. Kay Bailey had plenty of big dogs backing her that would have found it.
maables on September 12, 2011 at 11:40 PM
That is a good point. If that’s the case, then that makes Bachmann look worse than ever. It also reflects on Palin, since she accepted Bachmann’s charges without question. That is very troubling to me.
I have opinions like others that comment here, but if I’m going to accuse someone of anything I make sure I have research and links to back it up. And this is a blog. Bachmann making these charges on National TV and Palin backing them up on Fox without proof that they are true is very disturbing.
Thanks for your insight.
bluefox on September 13, 2011 at 2:13 AM
Christine O’Donnell was a whiny trainwreck, and your comparison of the two is flawed at best, mind-melting at worst. She has no record of serving in office, and her record of involvement in conservative politics consisted of filing sexual harassment lawsuits against conservative thinktanks.
I know you’ll roll your eyes, but if you want a more apposite comparison, Palin would be a good one. Governorship that, while it ended in resignation, was noted for its effectiveness. Two books. Many television appearances, speeches at political events, etc. She’s done well with her time out of office. You can’t apply the “record of involvement in conservative politics” to Romney or Perry.
MadisonConservative on September 13, 2011 at 2:17 AM
SGinNC on September 12, 2011 at 11:42 PM
Please look at the thread. What you have posted is certainly not what “haner” posted. I was replying to him.
Your comment is not the same as haner’s. Let him reply if he chooses.
bluefox on September 13, 2011 at 2:17 AM
maables on September 12, 2011 at 11:48 PM
Thank you for explaining the Texas in State tuition and the link.
It’s really helpful when the facts are known about these issues.
bluefox on September 13, 2011 at 2:21 AM
57 States
The Notorious G.O.P on September 13, 2011 at 2:27 AM
I think that Perry would have handled this situation by not making excuses, but saying that he was wrong in this situatuion and learned a valuable lesson from it. Then he could have said that if any one of his competitors was without sin they could lob the first stone.
SGinNC on September 12, 2011 at 11:49 PM
He has said this several times. He said it in the first debate about a week ago. After he entered the race, Hotair had a thread up where he explained it and that was about the 3rd week of August I think. The problem seems to be to keep talking about it. Some want to make political points I guess. It just gets tiresome tho.
This really has nothing to do about the economy or jobs or the State of our Country. But the pundits and others would rather talk about an issue that doesn’t matter.
bluefox on September 13, 2011 at 2:27 AM
I agree with you 100%. I love Palin, I really do, but tonight’s attack on Perry based on what Bachmann said was totally uncalled for.
I pray and hope, for her sake, that she is not running because the barbs will be okay if she is planning to play an activist role in 2012. If she is planning to enter the race, then many will interpret this to be a cynical political ploy, which I doubt will win her any fans.
TheRightMan on September 13, 2011 at 2:28 AM
I wonder how long Bachmann is going to keep up her Gardasil schtick. It would be fair game if he is refusing to admit a mea culpa, but how long can one continue to beat up on a rival who has admitted his mistake on an issue and otherwise has a good record?
TheRightMan on September 13, 2011 at 2:30 AM
Bachmann’s performance really irked me. It’s fine that she went after Perry-but the low way she did it made me wonder aloud if Ed Rollins was still running her campaign.
I REALLY want to see her numbers drop lower now.
annoyinglittletwerp on September 12, 2011 at 11:50 PM
I’m with you there. I guess her new campaign crew thinks this is what people want to hear. I thot she was tacky and trashy. Noticed she & Romney are now great friends.
She needs to be made to prove her serious charges against Gov. Perry and if she can’t prove them, apologize in person at the next public debate. What an insult!
I didn’t like Romney/Bachmann/Santorum/Huntsman for piling on Gov. Perry. They must think if they insult/criticize Gov. Perry they are better persons.
bluefox on September 13, 2011 at 2:34 AM
Um…he hasn’t admitted a mistake. He’s still pulling the “I’m against cancer. The vaccine protects against cancer. If you’re against forcing the vaccine on kids, you want kids to get cancer. Plus, states rights.” schtick.
MadisonConservative on September 13, 2011 at 2:35 AM
Arizona has set up a website where people can donate to a fund to help build the fence:
https://az.gov/app/keepazsafe/index.xhtml
So far, 34,625 people have donated $1,596,820.87.
wren on September 13, 2011 at 12:30 AM
Wow, that is a great idea and also a lot of money so far! Maybe after AZ gets theirs funded, the other border States can do it. One border State at a time.
Thanks wren!!
bluefox on September 13, 2011 at 2:48 AM
Gardasil is one of the most expensive vaccines we have. Merck made a killing with the Texas mandate for a lifestyle disease.
haner on September 13, 2011 at 12:32 AM
I understood that the vaccine had to be given prior to getting HPV.
Once you had HPV it wasn’t effective, which makes sense since it is a vaccine.
Also, I read that the Legislature overturned the mandate. Someone on the thread here stated that.
bluefox on September 13, 2011 at 2:52 AM
Actually, he did admit it was a mistake and did again in the debate.
Daemonocracy on September 13, 2011 at 2:56 AM
TheRightMan on September 13, 2011 at 2:30 AM
Very true. It’s ungracious of Bachmann and Palin and anyone else to keep harping in this when he’s apologized. How many politicians apologize? Very few. Perry’s one. Better than Romney’s “No Apologies” book title.
-Aslan’s Girl
Aslans Girl on September 13, 2011 at 3:03 AM
Perry certainly has his weak areas, I just don’t see the need to make things up. I liked Bachmann before this, not anymore.
Shay on September 13, 2011 at 12:53 AM
I’ve made a few comments on this so I’ll just post this:
bluefox on September 13, 2011 at 2:13 AM
maables on September 12, 2011 at 11:40 PM
I didn’t appreciate the attacks against Gov.Perry at all.
bluefox on September 13, 2011 at 3:04 AM
I expressed similar thoughts in another thread (maybe it was this one, I’ve lost track).
I have no problem with the attack itself and am pleased Sarah Palin has brought the issue of Crony Capitalism into the campaign narrative; if we want any hope of reforming the tax code then Crony Capitalism must be taken on. However, if she is just softening up a future campaign opponent from the safety of a Fox Studio then it looks cheap because she wasn’t on that stage taking any heat.
Daemonocracy on September 13, 2011 at 3:05 AM
bluefox on September 13, 2011 at 2:34 AM
I agree, the piling on is excessive and unnecessary. And since it’s so different from all the other debates that Perry did not participate in, it sticks out like a sore thumb.
The candidates did not pile on Romney at the beginning of this debate season when he was the front-runner. Everyone was so nice to each other. It’s not like Romney didn’t have anything in his record t o attack and yet, they didn’t.
I can’t remember, but did the candidates all pile on Giuliani in ’08 when he was the front-runner? Did they pile on W when he was in ’00?
-Aslan’s Girl
Aslans Girl on September 13, 2011 at 3:09 AM
Oops! You are right Shay. Thank you! I didn’t realize that Arizona had a separate site to collect donations to defend themselves against the Federal lawsuit.
wren on September 13, 2011 at 1:02 AM
So they have two. Well, that is quite smart to do that. I would hope that the Governor would have already sent letters to every State. Including a postage paid return envelope wouldn’t be a bad idea either, LOL
Glad I saw this post too:-) I’m late reading the rest of this thread since I had phone call, etc.
bluefox on September 13, 2011 at 3:12 AM
Hey Petunia: Our problem w/ Mitt has NOTHING to do with his faith…but has everything to do w/MassCare.
annoyinglittletwerp on September 13, 2011 at 1:08 AM
May I add, lying about Gov. Perry. Also Romney is a hypocrit.
bluefox on September 13, 2011 at 3:14 AM
Spot on, once again. I made a comment along similar lines in one of the threads earlier on.
It sticks out especially for Bachmann, who appeared to be okay with Romney being the frontrunner despite his Romneycare mandate and yet decides to go ballistic on Perry, who despite his flaws, has been a sollid conservative governor for over a decade.
Bachmann should seriously be praying that Perry comes through, otherwise if she is seen as having helped torpedo the only viable conservative in the field, her political career will be over. And she shouldn’t bother with books or rallies in the event of an Obama win.
TheRightMan on September 13, 2011 at 3:15 AM
Personally, I don’t think Sarah will endorse anyone if she doesn’t run.
bluefox on September 12, 2011 at 11:23 PM
There isn’t a candidate on that stage that will want her endorsement.
csdeven on September 13, 2011 at 1:09 AM
I would agree the men wouldn’t, but Bachmann would. And I would say after Palin’s hit on Perry tonight and backing Bachmann, that she is problably feeling pretty good about her performance at the debate.
bluefox on September 13, 2011 at 3:17 AM
To add to my comment @ 3:15am:
The pile-on tactic is at the urging of their campaign strategists.
Most of these strategists are liberals or pseudo-conservative, at best. They hate conservatives like Perry with a passion and consider it their mission to destroy him.
TheRightMan on September 13, 2011 at 3:17 AM
bluefox on September 13, 2011 at 3:14 AM
And his belief in AGW. Except when he says he doesn’t know. Except when he does… I think you get the point, lol!
-Aslan’s Girl
Aslans Girl on September 13, 2011 at 3:20 AM
Personally, I don’t think Sarah will endorse anyone if she doesn’t run.
bluefox on September 12, 2011 at 11:23 PM
If she didn’t endorse someone she’d risk being painted as acting small and petty.
annoyinglittletwerp on September 13, 2011 at 1:11 AM
That could be, but with Sarah, she may decide to just support various House & Senate Candidates. Hard to tell with her:-)
bluefox on September 13, 2011 at 3:22 AM
Seriously, I will go on a limb and predict that Bachmann’s numbers will suffer a further hit after tonight’s debate.
If anyone’s numbers should go up, it should be Newt and possibly Cain. Those two are gentlemen and won my heart this evening.
My favorite moment was Newt pointing out that if anyone should be blamed for scaring seniors on Social Security, then it was Obama. This was after a Huntsman “My colleagues here are scaring seniors…” That brought Newt the strongest applause of the night and a standing ovation!
TheRightMan on September 13, 2011 at 3:23 AM
“Dr. Harper explained that 90 percent of HPV infections resolve themselves after 2 years, and that the vast majority of those cases (70 percent) actually resolve unaided in under one year’s time.
SheetAnchor on September 13, 2011 at 1:25 AM
And during this 2 year period while the person is infected, they will continue to have sexual relations? Is that not how HPV spreads for pity sake? Good grief.
Do you understand that the vaccine must be given prior to becoming infected? It is a “vaccine”. It is only for 4 types.
Many girls in grade school are sexually active. There are opinions that differ greatly from this Dr. Harper. Always good to have more than one opinion.
bluefox on September 13, 2011 at 3:35 AM
You took all that time to write that and I just have to reply, especially since you agree with everything I was thinking.
That kiss was weird, I didn’t know it was Romney though, that might explain her seemingly personal assault on Perry; is Romney trying to line up another endorsement with more Tea Party credibility than Pawlenty?
Bachmann completely put off with her incessant use of the term “little girls” as if Perry were some kind of monster. The crony capitalist charge didn’t even bother me and she only brought it up once, but she kept saying “little girls” over and over and continued to do so after the debate was over in the spin room and on interviews. I found it to be an incredibly low blow and distasteful – why not just call the man a pedophile.
The Latino question was a huge missed opportunity. Why didn’t ONE single candidate come out and say that to appeal to Latinos they will talk about the economy like they would with any other voter. Latinos are Americans and part of this economy too, they aren’t single issue voters and illegal immigrants aren’t all Latino. Not one of the candidates seized this opportunity.
Actually, I disagree with you on one thing, I don’t think Perry won. He looked weak too many times and was visibly shaken towards the end after the pile on. He did fine considering, but Romney benefited the most from Perry being taken to the slaughterhouse and Cain won on points but will remain a bottom tier candidate (he hurt himself beyond repair with gaffe after gaffe early on).
Perry really does need to defend himself better, sometimes I think I know his record better than he does. Gardasil: apologize and be done with it; Border Fence: boots on the ground instead of a fence in the Rio Grande: Texas Dream Act: a definite weakness and an issue which concerns me but he did not differentiate it from Obama’s Dream Act and there are huge differences; Texas Economy: he has a rock solid record and he is letting the other candidates chip away at it with lies – defend yourself boy! I think his campaign is telling him to tone it down severely so he comes across as less of a cowboy; I saw some of a post debate speech he was giving to Tea Partiers on CNN and he was absolutely invigorating: No teleprompter, no notes, completely extemporaneous, and full of energy. I had read he is a phenomenal campaigner and I saw it in that speech, he has to bring that energy to the debates.
Daemonocracy on September 13, 2011 at 3:45 AM
-Aslan’s Girl
Aslans Girl on September 13, 2011 at 1:40 AM
Great debate review and I think you’ve done the best!! I like a couple of things you said that I didn’t quite catch (Huntsman treasonous comment concerning Perry) Thanks.
Glad you noticed the big kiss Bachmann greeted Romney with! I posted that but didn’t see that anyone else saw it. I knew I didn’t imagine it, LOL
Yes Romney and Bachmann have lied about Gov. Perry. I thot her performance was despicable.
Thanks for the review!!
bluefox on September 13, 2011 at 3:48 AM
I do not think it will work, though, and she might still prove me wrong by backing Perry.
TheRightMan on September 13, 2011 at 2:06 AM
You really think Bachmann would endorse Perry? I don’t think Bachmann intends on getting out. She just made campaign changes. There is now a Super Pac that someone is funding and she has access to. I think she may be looking for a Palin endorsement.
Palin is taking some criticism tonight after backing Bachmann’s attack(my word) against Perry. On Greta Palin was agreeing with Bachmann. It appears Bachmann has no proof on the charges against Perry, so that wasn’t a good idea.
bluefox on September 13, 2011 at 3:56 AM
Perry playing defense now might be a strategy his campaign is opting for now. But after two debates where the others have piled on, I expect him to come swinging in the next debate.
If Bachmann goes off on the Gardasil schtick again, I expect him to tell her to move on and then proceed to expound on her own failings.
None of the other candidates, even Romney with his horrendous record, has been piled on as severely. We will definitely see how Romney holds up probably in the next debate or two.
TheRightMan on September 13, 2011 at 4:10 AM
I pray and hope, for her sake, that she is not running because the barbs will be okay if she is planning to play an activist role in 2012. If she is planning to enter the race, then many will interpret this to be a cynical political ploy, which I doubt will win her any fans.
TheRightMan on September 13, 2011 at 2:28 AM
You’re probably right in that. I was totally shocked. It is difficult to understand that she took Bachmann’s attack at face value. Hopefully, she’ll reconsider. We’ll wait and see.
bluefox on September 13, 2011 at 4:17 AM
I wonder how long Bachmann is going to keep up her Gardasil schtick. It would be fair game if he is refusing to admit a mea culpa, but how long can one continue to beat up on a rival who has admitted his mistake on an issue and otherwise has a good record?
TheRightMan on September 13, 2011 at 2:30 AM
I don’t know but she showed herself to be willing to lie against Perry and make charges she cannot prove. Then after the debate she was saying the same thing again on CNN. That kind of tactic is not going to make up for the fact that she has no experience whatsoever to be President.
After Palin was on Greta, then Bachmann was due to be on and I guess she said a few other things in addition. I switched the channel after Palin was on. I heard all I needed to hear of Bachmann.
We’ll see what kind of feedback she’ll get & what the Polls say.
bluefox on September 13, 2011 at 4:25 AM
Actually, he did admit it was a mistake and did again in the debate.
Daemonocracy on September 13, 2011 at 2:56 AM
Thanks for posting that link. It has good info. I remember Hotair had a thread up covering his apology around that same time.
This happened in 2007, 4 years ago. The fact that Bachmann said what she did was nasty and she should be made to apologize on stage at the next debate. Unless she can prove her charges, which another poster pointed out if Kay Bailey couldn’t, then there most likely wasn’t any.
bluefox on September 13, 2011 at 4:38 AM
Bachmann is done, she’s working for the number 2 spot.
Romney is done, he will be used and abused about his flip flopping. The debates so far, are by cnn and msnbc. They want Mitt. They agitated anything against Perry. Romney fell for the ole bash who’s on top of the polls. Bachmann is desperate. You could see it in her eyes tonight.
If anyone thought Bachmann did well, even on her 1 good answer. You are living in LA LA land. Always the answer of Mitt did well again. Thats cause there is no preasure from the lib media asking about and keeping on his Romneycare.
Romney cannot run and win with that albatros. Anyone defending him should look in a mirror sometime.
Gedge on September 13, 2011 at 4:44 AM
Daemonocracy on September 13, 2011 at 3:05 AM
The problem was that Bachmann accused Perry of a charge which she cannot prove and Palin backed her up. Even here on a blog, we ask for links. Bachmann was wrong and tacky. Why Palin took Bachmann’s word for that, I have no idea.
Exposing Crony Capitalism is all well and good, but before accusing someone of that there should be some evidence is what I’m saying. Without any basis, other than an opinion is slanderous and worse when Bachmann was making it for a political point. Palin should have been more careful.
bluefox on September 13, 2011 at 4:46 AM
I can’t remember, but did the candidates all pile on Giuliani in ’08 when he was the front-runner? Did they pile on W when he was in ’00?
-Aslan’s Girl
Aslans Girl on September 13, 2011 at 3:09 AM
I’m not sure, but I don’t recall these kind of deliberate lies being told that’s for sure. I’ve never seen anything like this before.
Romney is backed by Rove/Bush and certain Republicans.(They sure are quiet aren’t they?) Jeb Bush Junior endorsed Huntsman sometime back.
Jeb Bush came out remember and wanted Perry to “tone it down”, along with Karl Rove. So the debates are all about taking Perry out.
bluefox on September 13, 2011 at 4:54 AM
Most of these strategists are liberals or pseudo-conservative, at best. They hate conservatives like Perry with a passion and consider it their mission to destroy him.
TheRightMan on September 13, 2011 at 3:17 AM
That’s true. But Bachmann needs to understand that these people don’t care if you get destroyed in the war:-) “They” have a reputation to take care of:-) And there next job.
bluefox on September 13, 2011 at 4:59 AM
bluefox on September 13, 2011 at 3:14 AM
And his belief in AGW. Except when he says he doesn’t know. Except when he does… I think you get the point, lol!
-Aslan’s Girl
Aslans Girl on September 13, 2011 at 3:20 AM
LOL, waffles? Ha-Ha Oh no, not another one! Oh, in Romney’s book “No Apology” he stated that S.S. was a fraudulent, criminal enterprise. And then lying about Perry; that’s why Romney is a hypocrit.
bluefox on September 13, 2011 at 5:02 AM
bluefox on September 13, 2011 at 4:54 AM
That’s my feeling, too. I’ve been watching debates for a long time (I fell in love with politics when I was 13) and I can’t recall this. It began last week but I chalked it up mostly to it being MSNBC, but tonight was definitely the candidates doing it.
I lol’d at the one Romneycare question Wolfie asked Mitt. What a softball! After all the Perry-the-pinata attacks and Mitt gets a softie.
-Aslan’s Girl
Aslans Girl on September 13, 2011 at 5:03 AM
Seriously, I will go on a limb and predict that Bachmann’s numbers will suffer a further hit after tonight’s debate.
If anyone’s numbers should go up, it should be Newt and possibly Cain. Those two are gentlemen and won my heart this evening.
My favorite moment was Newt pointing out that if anyone should be blamed for scaring seniors on Social Security, then it was Obama. This was after a Huntsman “My colleagues here are scaring seniors…” That brought Newt the strongest applause of the night and a standing ovation!
TheRightMan on September 13, 2011 at 3:23 AM
Well, her numbers should go down.
Herman Cain grows on me:-) He is very articulate and seems to be very even tempered and thoughtful. Newt is the brain:-) Oh, I missed him getting a standing O. That remark hit the bullseye.
This debate brought out a couple of things that were unexpected for me.
We’ve still a ways to go tho. I think they are scheduling too many debates. We just had ono on 9/7 and then tonight and now another.
bluefox on September 13, 2011 at 5:09 AM
Since when does forcing 12 year old girls to take shots the line of a true conservative?
What economic principles in Texas did Perry push for that made his state such a booming economic enigma?
Notorious GOP on September 13, 2011 at 6:04 AM
Yes. After the MSNBC debate last week, Gibbs revealed that the WH had “their cameras trained on Perry” for the whole debate. Creepy that the WH had cameras, but that’s what he said.
-Aslan’s Girl
Aslans Girl on September 13, 2011 at 6:37 AM
Correct me if I’m wrong but….
This new mortgage program that will help homeowners is going to have the effect of driving more of the market to Fannie and Freddie?
I heard yesterday that 4-5 million mortgages MORE might wind up under Fannie/Freddie and that will:
1. Reduce PRIVATE SECTOR Mortgages out there (and employment).
2. Give the FED Gov effectively direct access to the largest asset Americans “own”.
3. Give the Feds more “collateral” to borrow from creditors by showing them they have access to seize essentially Americans property in a Financial meltdown.
4. Think of the redistribution possibilities if the FedGov were to start “leveling” the playing field?
Am I wrong? Did that come up AT ALL during the debate?
PappyD61 on September 13, 2011 at 6:50 AM
To Whom It May Concern:
It’s called PASSION, people. Some possess it & it shows, 1 way or another, to 1 extent or another.
It’s called being smart, of/by/for the US Constitution. Some are smart & it shows, 1 way or another, to 1 extent or another.
Some think it’s ‘I’m in charge, now. We’re in charge, now.’ That attitude is a major mistake.
So…
What is the right attitude? What is the just attitude. What is Right & Just is RightJust/Righteous.
Also…
This debate is directly related to the Tea Party.
Some people ask: ‘Who is the leader of the Tea Party?’
WHO? 1st of all, maybe, it’s really about WHAT.
In essence, the US Constitution is the leader of the Tea Party.
GET REAL: Overall, from the past, in the present, & into the future: Ron Paul most closely lines up with this political philosophy.
Each candidate’s got his/her good points; some, more especially & more exceptionally so than others.
Please save yourselves from projecting & commenting based upon whatever’s going on inside your lower ego:
‘Leggo Your Eggo.’
Ideally, to the core, the higher ego within us all is to line up just right with the US Constitution, to the greatest extent possible in this world of today, with everyone & everything else involved, both directly & remotely, and in-between; going with a good attitude, taking 1 good step at a time, all at a good pace.
So…
Let’s make the IDEAL the REAL.
Onward & Upward, May We The People of the US Go.
MAY *G* BLESS THE US & MAKE EVERYTHING ESPECIALLY & EXCEPTIONALLY GOOD FOR THE US; WITHIN & ALL AROUND, AS IS DESERVED & AS IS RESERVED.
Now…
Let’s get to it.
ABLOGMAN on September 13, 2011 at 6:54 AM
@ bluefox
You keep saying that Bachmann’s attack (accepting Merck $$) was unfounded, but he admitted he received a 5k campaign contribution during the debate (wikipedia pegs it at 6k and notes that Perry’s chief of staff went to handle Merck’s Texas lobbying work).
Once he admitted it, and then said that he was insulted she would insinuate that he could be bought for 5k, it reminded me of the joke ending in: “We know what you are, now we’re merely haggling over the price.”
Firefly_76 on September 13, 2011 at 7:01 AM
dear leader has a website about the debates so called “factchecking” the responses…hardee har har…
cmsinaz on September 13, 2011 at 7:01 AM
acknowledge, move on folks, he admit it was a mistake…
we have BIGGER FISH TO FRY now…
focus
cmsinaz on September 13, 2011 at 7:02 AM
It’s obvious this morning that the left wing, Godless media is scared to death of Perry . . . go governor!
rplat on September 13, 2011 at 7:25 AM
At least the GOP side is HAVING the needed debate on the solvency of Social Security, and we can decide who is just kicking this ticking time bomb down the street instead of dealing with it.
We need people to take on tough subjects and broken sacred cows.
AJStrata on September 13, 2011 at 7:48 AM
Can we all agree that Bachmann, Santorum, Paul and Cain need to just ride that crazy train out of town?
MJBrutus on September 13, 2011 at 7:52 AM
No. It’s your tv/monitor. Perry looked just fine on my tv tonight. Troll.
-Aslan’s Girl
Aslans Girl on September 13, 2011 at 8:01 AM
LOL!
-Aslan’s Girl
Aslans Girl on September 13, 2011 at 8:11 AM
I just logged on and haven’t read a single comment.
Quick, someone tell me if a thread about a debate between declared candidates devolved entirely into comments about Palin?
Monkeytoe on September 13, 2011 at 8:12 AM
You have to forgive jp, Notorious.
He hasn’t been the same since they told him the brain damage would be irreversible…
JohnGalt23 on September 13, 2011 at 8:26 AM
He may have looked fine (I thought he did), but the fact is that, at times, he sounded like Obama sans teleprompter.
JohnGalt23 on September 13, 2011 at 8:27 AM
Guess Sarah won’t be endorsing Perry, huh?
stenwin77 on September 13, 2011 at 8:45 AM
Guess Sarah WAS, after all, talking about Perry in her crony capitalist speech, huh !
stenwin77 on September 13, 2011 at 8:46 AM
I think that is a fair assessment (of the subject of her speech, if not the content)…
JohnGalt23 on September 13, 2011 at 8:52 AM
Yeah, I spent a long time calibrating my TV and he did NOT look orange. He did dye his hair though recently. Although it still looks better and less obvious than Mittens.
Doughboy on September 13, 2011 at 8:55 AM
No on Bachmann and Cain.
fossten on September 13, 2011 at 9:09 AM
Can’t wait until they hit perry on his crony TTC ties.
wheelgun on September 13, 2011 at 9:36 AM
35 Million have been inoculated “Voluntarily” with Garadsil. If it’s so bad, and expensive why are people using it? They probably have a family member who either died or survived some kind of cancer. I know I have.
Merck didn’t make a killing in Texas. The mandate was never implemented. Perry stated It was a mistake. habla inglés?
Dr Evil on September 13, 2011 at 9:38 AM
Hot Air wouldn’t load the comment option last night I guess the server was busy. I checked my email before I turned the computer off there was a campaign solicitation from Bachman using Gardasil issue to attack Perry to raise donations.
Someone needs to pin her down on her outrageous claim, that the HPV vaccine manufactured by MERCK, caused retardation in an adolescent. If a child got a high fever from the vaccine, and suffered brain damage – not the same as retardation, the parent would have been negligent not to give the child something for her fever or seek professional medical attention. That’s the only scenario I can see Bachmann and UNNAMED mother, could be talking about. Vaccines don’t cause retardation. It would behoove TEAM Perry to take out Romney’s attack poodle, unless he enjoys her biting his ankles. Bachmann is trying to raise campaign money on the attack on Perry, using Gardasil. It’s not like she didn’t load the weapon and cock it for Perry. All he has to do is expose her superficial irresponsible ?lie? Is Bachmann exploiting some unknown child for her own self interest – campaign donations.
Dr Evil on September 13, 2011 at 9:53 AM
…and then he turned right around and defended the decision as his being “for life” and “against cancer”. His apology was for the way he went about it. Bachmann went after him for the whole thing.
MadisonConservative on September 13, 2011 at 9:55 AM
Perry cleaned up last night. Especially on Social Security and JOBS. He gets stronger and stronger. Especially since the entire debate was questions posed to attack Perry and a piling on. Only Cain and Newt promoted the Conservative cause without cheap shots at Perry. Designed to play into the liberal and media plan.
Cain, as always, was my favorite. Love that guy. Wish he had Perry’s chance of getting the nomination, but I am happy with Perry. Newt again impressed. Don’t want him to get the nomination, but he needs to stay in there till the end so we have his voice. And Cain and Newt need to be in Perry’s administration.
Romney made a fool of himself. Joined Huntsman as being disgusting. Bachmann and Romney looked desperate and sad. Very disappointed in her. Being disingenuous and ignoring some of the facts when she attacked Perry. She can promote herself with without stooping to that level.
Sarah Palin has been a big disappointment to me lately. I will hold my tongue on a lot of things, as I have for the past year. But the bloom is off the rose with her. She either has changed or was not what I thought she was. She is putting her own ambition over the conservative cause. Giving attack talking points for the general election to our enemies and trying to bring down our best chance to defeat Obama and promote conservatism. With cowardly cheap shots from the side lines. $5,000 of campaign contributions would sway Perry? Make him corrupt? Because he listened to a friend and former coworker who he trusted and cared about the health of girls when they became women? I totally disagree with what he did, but that doesn’t make him corrupt. Just mistaken. Big time. And Perry said it was a mistake. He was governor of a huge state for over 10 years. No one is perfect and anyone would make mistakes. Including Palin. And the way she went about it was disingenuous. Like Bachmann, ignoring the clear opt out that Perry had in the plan. And Sarah started by saying that Newt was the ONLY one who talked about government waste. Ignoring the fact that Newt was the first asked the question and Perry followed by talking about government waste and how they actually reduced waste in Texas. Shame on her. She is killing her brand. She is a young woman and needs to rethink what she is doing.
“Crony capitalism” means corruption and doing things for money that go against the well being of the people. Is Perry corrupt, like Obama? Are we going to equate the two and take away that line of attack against Obama in the general? Did Perry get jobs for his state with the help of his friends? Was he effective and successful? Do we want him to help the country do the same? Yup.
Got to run. Luckily Perry did well last night. He will hold in the national polls. And Jindal, who was always my first choice for President and knows Perry well, endorsed Perry. Nice.
Elisa on September 13, 2011 at 10:29 AM
Bachmann’s desperate. She’s polling in Santorum country.
How many vaccines have been mandated in the U.S.? How many parents are allowed to opt out? Before children go to school they have to have an updated shot record.
I think mandating HPV was a mistake. It’s not like it’s airborne, it’s transferred specifically through sexual contact. Perry’s wife is a nurse, and his father in law is a doctor, I am speculating they would be for preventive medicine. Merck probably counciled him on the occurrance in the Texas population, cost to treat, and mortality rate.
Everyone thinks Perry just heard about the vaccine, and went hog wild with a mandate….as if he didn’t have stats etc. in front of him. Health Care cost is a huge chunk of every state’s budget.
Dr Evil on September 13, 2011 at 10:30 AM
bluefox on September 13, 2011 at 3:14 AM
On other occasions,Petunia has accused me and others of only disliking Mitt and Huntsmann because we’re anti-Mormon bigots.
I wanted to head that accusation off early.
annoyinglittletwerp on September 13, 2011 at 10:34 AM
I think the loser last night was Ron Paul
Bachmann and Santorum were up on their high horses – they think attacking another social conservative, over a social conservative issue, in front of a bunch of fiscal conservatives (TEA Party) is a winning strategy.
Newt performed the best, he can adapt to any debate style.
I don’t know why Newt isn’t polling better than say number 3 Ron Paul?
Dr Evil on September 13, 2011 at 10:37 AM
Agreed! Latino voters are NOT a monolithic bloc that blindly votes in groupthink–they come from many different countries and cultures, and are dealing with many different issues in their own lives. Most of them are Catholic and strongly pro-life. Many of them have started businesses, and would WELCOME a candidate talking about lower taxes and less regulation on small business. Many of them are very concerned about their children’s education, and would welcome a candidate talking about school choice and vouchers that can be used to “opt-out” of failing public schools.
Even regarding immigration, the canard that Democrats use to attract Latino voters, many Latino voters who have willingly gone through the bureaucratic nightmare of LEGAL immigration and naturalization are resentful of those who come to this country “on the cheap” by sneaking over a border.
Most people who now call themselves Americans are descendants of immigrants from Europe, and Latinos in the United States and in other countries in Central and South America are descendants of Spanish colonists. We are a nation of immigrants, and what is wrong with our country having a border fence with lots of gates, where those who are willing to learn our language (English) and contribute their skills to our society are welcomed?
Steve Z on September 13, 2011 at 10:52 AM
Because whatever you think of Ron Paul’s politics, there is no doubt that when it comes to his personl life, Ron Paul is Dudley Do-Right to Newt’s Snidely Whiplash.
JohnGalt23 on September 13, 2011 at 11:32 AM
As far as we know any way – Ron Paul the player, there’s a mental picture I can do without.
Dr Evil on September 13, 2011 at 1:16 PM
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