Jon Meacham jumps to the defense of … George W. Bush

posted at 3:25 pm on September 12, 2011 by Tina Korbe

After a day of nationwide remembrance and bipartisan displays of patriotism, PBS host Tavis Smiley tried to revive the cheaply divisive “Bush lied” refrain today when he appeared on MSNBC’s “Morning Joe” — but host Joe Scarborough and former Newsweek editor Jon Meacham refused to let slide Smiley’s travesty of a talking point. As disappointing as it is that anyone is still repeating that tired line, it’s encouraging that Scarborough and Meacham didn’t let him get away with it. My favorite line comes from Scarborough at about 4:15. “I can’t believe I’m having to say this again,” he says. “Google it.”

As one commenter put it on NewsBusters, the phrase won’t die because “the lefties like those nifty chants. ‘Bush acted on bad intelligence – people died,’ just doesn’t have the catchiness of ‘Bush lied – people died.’”


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Comment pages: 1 2

I suggest they try:

Obama? Yo Mamma!

DrW on September 12, 2011 at 3:28 PM

The power of dogma, once entrenched, impossible to dislodge.

Skandia Recluse on September 12, 2011 at 3:28 PM

Tavis Smiley is as stupid as a bag of horsesh*t.

That is the only “truth” that needs to be said.

tetriskid on September 12, 2011 at 3:30 PM

Saw this live….tavis would not back down, putz

cmsinaz on September 12, 2011 at 3:30 PM

Tavis Smiley == P.O.S.

The War Planner on September 12, 2011 at 3:32 PM

They will try to rewrite history, but W will be vindicated

Tavis probably upset that W got cheers at the ceremony

cmsinaz on September 12, 2011 at 3:33 PM

The most shocking part of this story is that Jon Meacham made a lot of sense…shocking.

d1carter on September 12, 2011 at 3:34 PM

Obama was birthed-won’t put America first!

Obama’s a dunce – Everything’s a stunt.

Smiley’s black – and hateful hack.

SouthernGent on September 12, 2011 at 3:35 PM

More interesting was Jon Meacham almost saying “and I hate George Bush,” but then pulling himself back and muttering something about the Bush people not seeing him as a “friendly.” He almost let the mask slip, and the look on his face when he all of a sudden remembered he wasn’t standing around the water cooler with the other “journalists” was priceless. He stuttered, tried to find phrasing that wasn’t the typical vicious personal attack he regularly uses — and is never challenged for using — and came up with something else to say.

Rational Thought on September 12, 2011 at 3:36 PM

I still want to spit everytime I see a “Bush Lied, People Died” bumper sticker in Portland. And there are ALOT of them.

portlandon on September 12, 2011 at 3:37 PM

Consider the nitwit they are talking to.

Jaibones on September 12, 2011 at 3:37 PM

Tavis looks like he’s been enjoying seconds at the buffet.

angryed on September 12, 2011 at 3:40 PM

Tavis Smiley, affirmative action hire.

SirGawain on September 12, 2011 at 3:41 PM

Tavis Smiley sez: “I’m gonna believe what I wanna believe until the day I die and no amount of reason and evidence is gonna convince me! {sticks fingers in ears} La la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la la!”
.
The look on his face as he was being taught a lesson is Mastercard Priceless! He couldn’t believe that he wasn’t being given the deference his PBS celebrity dictated!

ExpressoBold on September 12, 2011 at 3:41 PM

I agree, angryed. Mr. Smiley appears to be a bit of a salad dodger.

Mason on September 12, 2011 at 3:42 PM

I flip around for a few minutes while having coffee and reading internets and when F&F gets silly I can usually tolerate Morning Joe and every now and then it is pretty decent. That segment was unwatchable for me.

DanMan on September 12, 2011 at 3:44 PM

Libs do like their simple chants. Simple food for the simple minded.

dczombie on September 12, 2011 at 3:44 PM

the phrase won’t die because “the lefties like those nifty chants. ‘Bush acted on bad intelligence – people died,’ just doesn’t have the catchiness of ‘Bush lied – people died.’”

Obama loves the beach – it’s time to impeach.

Catchy, yes?

fogw on September 12, 2011 at 3:44 PM

How about:
Obama Lied and the Friggin Country Died!

SayNo2-O on September 12, 2011 at 3:45 PM

Obama loves the beach – it’s time to impeach.

Catchy, yes?

fogw on September 12, 2011 at 3:44 PM

You owe me a new keyboard.

angryed on September 12, 2011 at 3:47 PM

Obama loves the beach – it’s time to impeach.

Catchy, yes?

fogw on September 12, 2011 at 3:44 PM

Well your a better man than me. I was gonna say “Obama likes to golf just like Adolph”

William Amos on September 12, 2011 at 3:50 PM

“Obama likes to golf just like Adolph”

William Amos on September 12, 2011 at 3:50 PM

Adolph golfed? He must have been pretty good; he only had one ball.

karl9000 on September 12, 2011 at 3:53 PM

Adolph golfed? He must have been pretty good; he only had one ball.

karl9000 on September 12, 2011 at 3:53 PM

Nah he always got stuck in a bunker.

William Amos on September 12, 2011 at 3:55 PM

Obama loves the beach – it’s time to impeach.

Catchy, yes?

fogw on September 12, 2011 at 3:44 PM

You owe me a new keyboard.

angryed on September 12, 2011 at 3:47 PM

Obama drives as the country dies
Then next he putts which makes him a putz.

Rod on September 12, 2011 at 3:56 PM

Obama hacked, the people lacked.

He hit the links, economy sinks.

BacaDog on September 12, 2011 at 3:56 PM

Obama spoke,,, America went broke.

tinkerthinker on September 12, 2011 at 3:57 PM

Oh, one more………..

Obama taxed, jobs got axed.

BacaDog on September 12, 2011 at 3:58 PM

Nah he always got stuck in a bunker.

William Amos on September 12, 2011 at 3:55 PM

Douche! Or is that touche? I always get those mixed up…

karl9000 on September 12, 2011 at 3:59 PM

Obama hacked, the people lacked.

He hit the links, economy sinks.

BacaDog on September 12, 2011 at 3:56 PM

Obama shanked, the economy tanked.

Hollowpoint on September 12, 2011 at 3:59 PM

Douche! Or is that touche? I always get those mixed up…

karl9000 on September 12, 2011 at 3:59 PM

Il douche

William Amos on September 12, 2011 at 4:00 PM

Dont be a Dunce. Spank the once.

William Amos on September 12, 2011 at 4:01 PM

Bush isn’t president anymore. It’s safe to appear reasonable now.

Jewels on September 12, 2011 at 4:01 PM

Obama’s putts got us stuck in a rut.

ReaganWasRight on September 12, 2011 at 4:02 PM

Obama vacations while screwing the nation.

sdd on September 12, 2011 at 4:02 PM

Ok, I need to stop………

He hit the pill instead of writing the bill.

BacaDog on September 12, 2011 at 4:04 PM

Il douche

William Amos on September 12, 2011 at 4:00 PM

This is what I love about Hot Air; you’re always learning something new

Spank the once.

Oh no, don’t start this again! I was laughing so hard last Friday I was in tears!

karl9000 on September 12, 2011 at 4:04 PM

Simple songs for simple minds.

Ryan Anthony on September 12, 2011 at 4:04 PM

Hope’s faded, we’ve been downgraded.

Barry does vacation, says F the nation.

Obama lied, granny died.

di butler on September 12, 2011 at 4:05 PM

Tavis Smiley. The poster child for affirmative action. The guy is a as bright as a 20 watt light bulb.

kevinkristy on September 12, 2011 at 4:05 PM

A shame that Meacham distorts Tenet’s “slam dunk” comment, something conservatives have propagandized for years, and Smiley doesn’t call him on it.

When you promote what isn’t true, and don’t share what is true, it’s a Big Lie. Everybody from Bush to Rummy to Cheney are guilty of that. Why else would they have to form their own intelligence apparatus (Office of Special Plans within the Pentagon) when all the other intelligence agencies weren’t coming up with intel that followed the administration’s narrative?

We know the PNAC cabal within the administration had advocated invading Iraq since the 90′s. We know all the claims they put forth– yellowcake uranium, mobile chemical weapons labs, WMD’s — turned out to be false. Motive + opportunity.

Constantine on September 12, 2011 at 4:08 PM

Tavis Smiley. The poster child for affirmative action. The guy is about as bright as a 15 watt light bulb.

Eyez wuz saying… Booosh’s statements deedn’t match da facts.

kevinkristy on September 12, 2011 at 4:08 PM

Clinton lied, sperm died (on Monica’s dress)

Mr_Magoo on September 12, 2011 at 4:10 PM

Ann Coulter is absolutely right. The Left doesn’t bother with facts; slogans are all they need.

hawksruleva on September 12, 2011 at 4:11 PM

Constantine on September 12, 2011 at 4:08 PM

What a wretched pile of ‘Loose Change’ sputum.

Good Solid B-Plus on September 12, 2011 at 4:14 PM

“[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq’s refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs.” — From a letter signed by Joe Lieberman, Dianne Feinstein, Barbara A. Milulski, Tom Daschle, & John Kerry among others on October 9, 1998

“Saddam’s goal … is to achieve the lifting of U.N. sanctions while retaining and enhancing Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction programs. We cannot, we must not and we will not let him succeed.” — Madeline Albright, 1998

“(Saddam) will rebuild his arsenal of weapons of mass destruction and some day, some way, I am certain he will use that arsenal again, as he has 10 times since 1983″ — National Security Adviser Sandy Berger, Feb 18, 1998

“Iraq made commitments after the Gulf War to completely dismantle all weapons of mass destruction, and unfortunately, Iraq has not lived up to its agreement.” — Barbara Boxer, November 8, 2002

“There’s no question that Saddam Hussein is a threat… Yes, he has chemical and biological weapons. He’s had those for a long time. But the United States right now is on a very much different defensive posture than we were before September 11th of 2001… He is, as far as we know, actively pursuing nuclear capabilities, though he doesn’t have nuclear warheads yet. If he were to acquire nuclear weapons, I think our friends in the region would face greatly increased risks as would we.” — Wesley Clark on September 26, 2002

“What is at stake is how to answer the potential threat Iraq represents with the risk of proliferation of WMD. Baghdad’s regime did use such weapons in the past. Today, a number of evidences may lead to think that, over the past four years, in the absence of international inspectors, this country has continued armament programs.” — Jacques Chirac, October 16, 2002

“The community of nations may see more and more of the very kind of threat Iraq poses now: a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction, ready to use them or provide them to terrorists. If we fail to respond today, Saddam and all those who would follow in his footsteps will be emboldened tomorrow.” — Bill Clinton in 1998

“The debate over Iraq is not about politics. It is about national security. It should be clear that our national security requires Congress to send a clear message to Iraq and the world: America is united in its determination to eliminate forever the threat of Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction.” — John Edwards, Oct 10, 2002

“Iraq does pose a serious threat to the stability of the Persian Gulf and we should organize an international coalition to eliminate his access to weapons of mass destruction. Iraq’s search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to completely deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power.” — Al Gore, 2002

“We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction.” — Ted Kennedy, September 27, 2002

“As a member of the House Intelligence Committee, I am keenly aware that the proliferation of chemical and biological weapons is an issue of grave importance to all nations. Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process.” — Nancy Pelosi, December 16, 1998

Stuff that in your cornhole and smoke it, Tavis.

Here’s Al “I’m getting rich of dumb people with global warming” Gore, back in 1992, lecturing about how bad it was to NOT attack Iraq:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gc1h1wg7LeQ

All through the nineties, democrats called for war with Iraq, insisted they had WMD, their intelligence insisted the same.

Bill Clinton, on Iraq WMD:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENAV_UoIfgc&feature=related

So, Mr Tavis, if Bush lied, your “liberal base” was lying long before Bush *ever* thought about running for POTUS.

Bush simply gave democrats what they had been calling for and claiming through the nineties.

BruthaMan on September 12, 2011 at 4:14 PM

Constantine on September 12, 2011 at 4:08 PM

Motive + opportunity.

Sort of like Obamacare, Stimulus, FinReg… All passed with motive and opportunity.

How did that work out, you liberal p**sy?

kevinkristy on September 12, 2011 at 4:15 PM

We haven’t been attacked since 9/11? Shoe bomber. Panty bomber. Nadal Hassan.

About Tavis: whenever someone says “here’s what I mean by lie” you can just ignore the words that come next.

hawksruleva on September 12, 2011 at 4:16 PM

Mika had a lot to add as usual. Nothing.

50sGuy on September 12, 2011 at 4:19 PM

We know the PNAC cabal within the administration had advocated invading Iraq since the 90′s. We know all the claims they put forth– yellowcake uranium, mobile chemical weapons labs, WMD’s — turned out to be false. Motive + opportunity.

Constantine on September 12, 2011 at 4:08 PM

You might want to take a look at just a few of the quotes I just posted. There are plenty more, but a post can only have so much content.

You might also want to get your own facts straight before posting.

550 metric tons of yellow cake uranium were found and removed from Iraq:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/07/05/world/main4235028.shtml

That’s the problem with “your” side. They are pathological liars. Don’t come in here “lecturing” others about “truth” when you have no idea what the “truth” really is.

BruthaMan on September 12, 2011 at 4:19 PM

BruthaMan on September 12, 2011 at 4:14 PM

When you run across a quote that says Iraq was responsible for 9/11 and we should follow up with a massive invasion, let me know. None of this is a defense of any such thing.

Hmmm, who opposed the debacle when it was still in the making? Oh right! Our President.

Constantine on September 12, 2011 at 4:21 PM

BruthaMan on September 12, 2011 at 4:14 PM
When you run across a quote that says Iraq was responsible for 9/11 and we should follow up with a massive invasion, let me know. None of this is a defense of any such thing.

Hmmm, who opposed the debacle when it was still in the making? Oh right! Our President.

Constantine on September 12, 2011 at 4:21 PM

Wow – a pivot to another topic the liberal got schooled on… how insightful…

Aside from your ignorance – the fact you regurgetated Joe Wilson’s – Op-ed writer and husband to Valerie “SALT” Plame – lies while sipping mint julip tea is f-ing hysterical.

Good lord, you would think that POS movie losing a few million would have been your “accuracy” clue.

Odie1941 on September 12, 2011 at 4:26 PM

When you run across a quote that says Iraq was responsible for 9/11 and we should follow up with a massive invasion, let me know. None of this is a defense of any such thing.

Hmmm, who opposed the debacle when it was still in the making? Oh right! Our President.

Constantine on September 12, 2011 at 4:21 PM

You don’t set the criteria for me to stomp a mud hole in your arse. I set that criteria. You lied, I corrected you.

Iraq – 9/11 is another one of those lies told by the left as well.

Have any more lies?

BruthaMan on September 12, 2011 at 4:26 PM

When you run across a quote that says Iraq was responsible for 9/11 and we should follow up with a massive invasion, let me know. None of this is a defense of any such thing.

Hmmm, who opposed the debacle when it was still in the making? Oh right! Our President.

Constantine on September 12, 2011 at 4:21 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Resolution#Contents

How many of those reasons had to do with 9/11, Constantine? Come on, you can count, I believe in you!

Good Solid B-Plus on September 12, 2011 at 4:27 PM

Constantine on September 12, 2011 at 4:21 PM

There’s nation building going on in Libya with the blessing of Obarfy. I’m still trying how Libya threatened our national security, but I’m sure you and Barry have an answer.

BTW Bush’s offensive in Iraq made Kaddafi surrender his nuke program, so you can’t use that one. Maybe Obarfy was threatened by his wardrobe, sissy that he is.

fogw on September 12, 2011 at 4:28 PM

BruthaMan on September 12, 2011 at 4:26 PM

From your cite:

Accusations that Saddam had tried to purchase more yellowcake from the African nation of Niger – and an article by a former U.S. ambassador refuting the claims – led to a wide-ranging probe into Washington leaks that reached high into the Bush administration.

Out of context much?

Y U so mad?

Constantine on September 12, 2011 at 4:29 PM

fogw on September 12, 2011 at 4:28 PM

Nobody ever made the case for a threat to the U.S., just to protect civilians and rebels. But thanks for the total non-sequitur.

Constantine on September 12, 2011 at 4:34 PM

Constantine on September 12, 2011 at 4:29 PM

Pop quiz:

How many tons of yellow cake were removed from Iraq?

BruthaMan on September 12, 2011 at 4:35 PM

I might as well throw this into the mix:

The Obama Recession, you bone it you own it.

Chip on September 12, 2011 at 4:48 PM

Constantine on September 12, 2011 at 4:29 PM
Pop quiz:

How many tons of yellow cake were removed from Iraq?

BruthaMan on September 12, 2011 at 4:35 PM

He has no idea, for the dunces info comes from Joe Wilson’s op-ed… seriously – thats where the “no yellow cake” meme started – and continued throughout Scooters fake trial until today – for the moronic liberals to latch on.

Because we all know the US Gov sends former 5th level Ambassadors to foreign country’s, while expecting them to write an op-ed for the Washington Post, in order to determine uranium black markets in the world.

Odie1941 on September 12, 2011 at 4:48 PM

Nobody ever made the case for a threat to the U.S., just to protect civilians and rebels. But thanks for the total non-sequitur.

Constantine on September 12, 2011 at 4:34 PM

OK, you wanna take that route. He’s protecting the poor innocent civilians.

Why didn’t your leader intervene in Iran, Syria or Egypt? Civilians were mowed down in the streets while Barry fiddled his thumbs. Can’t have it both ways. Pretty funny too, thinking Obama was protecting rebels. Rebels who belong to Al Qaeda.

fogw on September 12, 2011 at 4:50 PM

Constantine on September 12, 2011 at 4:29 PM

Pop quiz:

How many guns where allowed to ‘walk’ by the Downgrade Administration?

Chip on September 12, 2011 at 4:52 PM

Stimulus Tried, Economy Fried
Pass this Bill! .. Obama Cried
Republicans refuse, are vilified!

preallocated on September 12, 2011 at 4:53 PM

We know the PNAC cabal within the administration had advocated invading Iraq since the 90′s. We know all the claims they put forth– yellowcake uranium, mobile chemical weapons labs, WMD’s — turned out to be false. Motive + opportunity.

Constantine on September 12, 2011 at 4:08 PM

So Clinton’s administration was advocating invading Iraq?

Cindy Munford on September 12, 2011 at 4:57 PM

When you promote what isn’t true, and don’t share what is true, it’s a Big Lie. Everybody from Bush to Rummy to Cheney are guilty of that. Why else would they have to form their own intelligence apparatus (Office of Special Plans within the Pentagon) when all the other intelligence agencies weren’t coming up with intel that followed the administration’s narrative?

We know the PNAC cabal within the administration had advocated invading Iraq since the 90′s. We know all the claims they put forth– yellowcake uranium, mobile chemical weapons labs, WMD’s — turned out to be false. Motive + opportunity.

Constantine on September 12, 2011 at 4:08 PM

You’ve made two assertions.
Prove them, with links from multiple credible sources.

massrighty on September 12, 2011 at 4:58 PM

BruthaMan on September 12, 2011 at 4:35 PM

fogw on September 12, 2011 at 4:50 PM

Odie1941 on September 12, 2011 at 4:48 PM

After a while all the “I know f***-all about that, how about this” challenges become tiresome. Y’all want to stay on topic in this game of Dogpile the Troll? Otherwise you just look like you’re suffering from ADHD.

Constantine on September 12, 2011 at 5:03 PM

Constantine on September 12, 2011 at 5:03 PM

So, instead of answering my direct challenge, you do a little swervy dance that doesn’t really move the argument.

Laziness fail.

massrighty on September 12, 2011 at 5:05 PM

Hmmm, who opposed the debacle when it was still in the making? Oh right! Our President.

Constantine on September 12, 2011 at 4:21 PM

Barack Obama did not hold office at the national level in 2001-02.

“The war will last days, not weeks.” – Now, there’s a Presidential lie that got us into a war.

Kevin71 on September 12, 2011 at 5:08 PM

Constantine on September 12, 2011 at 5:03 PM

I’ll consider that a non-response due to your inability to defend the actions of our child president.

If you can’t take the heat stay out of the kitchen.

fogw on September 12, 2011 at 5:13 PM

Tavis Smiley is as stupid as a bag of horsesh*t.

That is the only “truth” that needs to be said.

tetriskid on September 12, 2011 at 3:30 PM

Bags of horsesh*t take umbrage with your comparison of Tavis Smiley to them.

BKennedy on September 12, 2011 at 5:15 PM

You’ve made two assertions.
Prove them, with links from multiple credible sources.
massrighty on September 12, 2011 at 4:58 PM

Dude seriously? Google. Learn about it.

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-february-23-2011/donald-rumsfeld-pt–2

In an interview with the Scottish Sunday Herald, former CIA officer Larry C. Johnson said the OSP was “dangerous for US national security and a threat to world peace. [The OSP] lied and manipulated intelligence to further its agenda of removing Saddam. It’s a group of ideologues with pre-determined notions of truth and reality. They take bits of intelligence to support their agenda and ignore anything contrary. They should be eliminated.” (Mackay, 2003)

http://www.cambridgeforecast.org/MIDDLEEAST/OSP.html

http://www.newamericancentury.org/iraqclintonletter.htm

Constantine on September 12, 2011 at 5:19 PM

I liked Tavis better when he hosted Soul Train…ummm that WAS him right?

malkinmania on September 12, 2011 at 5:20 PM

Constantine on September 12, 2011 at 5:19 PM

1. Your links do not prove the assertions I asked you to prove.
2. When asked for proof, “google it” is not proof.

Swerve fail.
(You do that a lot.)

massrighty on September 12, 2011 at 5:26 PM

massrighty on September 12, 2011 at 5:26 PM
1. Your links do not prove the assertions I asked you to prove.

Which brings us full circle back to the Bush conundrum: lying or gross incompetence? You do him proud.

Constantine on September 12, 2011 at 5:33 PM

malkinmania on September 12, 2011 at 5:20 PM

lol
i think he was one of the dancers :)

cmsinaz on September 12, 2011 at 5:35 PM

Which brings us full circle back to the Bush conundrum: lying or gross incompetence? You do him proud.

Constantine on September 12, 2011 at 5:33 PM

This is a random collection of words, that neither responds to my request, nor moves your arguement.

You may as well have typed chair elephant moonbeam driver club.”

You’re not very good at this, are you.

massrighty on September 12, 2011 at 5:39 PM

And NPR wonders why we don’t like them.

unclesmrgol on September 12, 2011 at 5:41 PM

Which brings us full circle back to the Bush conundrum: lying or gross incompetence? You do him proud.

Constantine on September 12, 2011 at 5:33 PM

That lying or gross incompetence extends to the Senate as well. As I remember, a significant number of Democrats bought into Bush’s “lying or gross incompetence” — because, whatever it was — it was convincing enough that Mr. Clinton, while he was President, was stating the same.

So, was Mr. Clinton incompetent or lying? Your choice.

[actually this one is easy -- if you understand what "is" is]

unclesmrgol on September 12, 2011 at 5:44 PM

Constantine on September 12, 2011 at 5:19 PM

You’re not very good at this. Citing The Daily Show as a credible source? Don’t insult our intelligence.

Now, what did Bush “lie” about again?

Del Dolemonte on September 12, 2011 at 5:54 PM

massrighty on September 12, 2011 at 5:39 PM

To put it simply, righty, the links I provided you with specifically prove what I was saying, if you take time to read/watch. You have a former CIA op saying specifically what I said about the OSP. You have Rummy getting grilled about it on The Daily Show. You have a letter from the PNAC dated 1998 saying we should take out Saddam.

These are the words of people from within the administration and still you deny, so you’re obviously just being disingenuous. Enjoy that, and see how far it gets you when you can’t be anonymous.

Constantine on September 12, 2011 at 5:57 PM

Mika is a wax dummy, who happens to move her lids.

Schadenfreude on September 12, 2011 at 6:07 PM

After a while all the “I know f***-all about that, how about this” challenges become tiresome.

Constantine on September 12, 2011 at 5:03 PM

So you will be trying a new strategy, since the “liberal” lies are not holding up well?

Which brings us full circle back to the Bush conundrum: lying or gross incompetence? You do him proud.

Constantine on September 12, 2011 at 5:33 PM

To complete that circle, one must concede that if Bush lied, democrats including both Clintons, Pelosi, Gore, Reid, Kerry and just about every other democrat that hasn’t died yet, lied too.

That is, if one were to be honest about it. Right, Constantine?

BruthaMan on September 12, 2011 at 6:11 PM

How about:
Obama Lied and the Friggin Country Died!

SayNo2-O on September 12, 2011 at 3:45 PM

Best quote of the day!!

chai on September 12, 2011 at 6:16 PM

You have a former CIA op saying specifically what I said about the OSP.

Constantine on September 12, 2011 at 5:57 PM

LOL, I love how you Leftists have no problem hating the CIA with the intensity of a thousand suns (see Phillip Agee and his fellow Leftists, who blew the covers of hundreds of agents, some of whom ended up dead) but then suddenly fall in love with The Company when it suits your political purposes (see CIA Desk Jockey Valerie Plame). The only reason you believe this guy is because he says what you Leftists want to hear.

Some friendly advice before you make an even bigger spectacle out of yourself: I personally corresponded with Larry Johnson via e-mail for a period of several months in the late 1990s in relation to his laughable 1996 assertion that worldwide terrorism was on the decline. In the course of our exchange, I soon concluded that the guy was an outright loon, basically making stuff up as he went. If you can find several other former CIA agents (not Plame) who can back up what he claims, it might help your Crusade.

But your biggest problem is what Larry Johnson wrote in an editorial 2 months before 9/11

“Judging from news reports and the portrayal of villains in our popular entertainment, Americans are bedeviled by fantasies about terrorism. They seem to believe that terrorism is the greatest threat to the United States and that it is becoming more widespread and lethal. They are likely to think that the United States is the most popular target of terrorists. And they almost certainly have the impression that extremist Islamic groups cause most terrorism…. None of these beliefs are based in fact…. While terrorism is not vanquished, in a world where thousands of nuclear warheads are still aimed across the continents, terrorism is not the biggest security challenge confronting the United States, and it should not be portrayed that way.”

Del Dolemonte on September 12, 2011 at 6:19 PM

Tavis Smiley == P.O.S.

The War Planner on September 12, 2011 at 3:32 PM

Pretty much. I know we’re a conservative group but truly, by any honest standard, Tavis Smiley is intellectually weak and a deeply dishonest, sh*tty person.

Django on September 12, 2011 at 6:25 PM

Constantine, Grow Up:

The point is not the level of evidence as seen in hindsight. The point is that a high number of intelligence services for many nations, including some in the middle east, believed that Saddam had them, and would use them, Because at one time he did have them, and had used them. Much worse was the possibility that he would make them available to terror groups to strike at the country that he hated above all others, the one that had thrown him back from any easy conquest, and was preventing him from destroying the Kurds, who also had his undying wrath. The point is that, given his hiding of things from UN inspectors, given his intransigence in the face of a mounting threat, ,that could have been ameliorated simply by opening his facilities to the UN if he had nothing to hide, failure to deal with him would have been dereliction of duty by the Bush administration. That is the thing that is forgotten, constantly. The US had been brutally attacked not 2 years earlier, indications were that Saddam was in possession of WMD, and that he would be more than willing to give them to terrorist groups. To allow this to happen would have made George W Bush the president who believed he had good intelligence that a dangerous attack that was likely to kill thousands, hundreds of thousands or possibly millions of American citizens was in the works, and did nothing to stop it! That would have made him a far worse and more useless President than even the most rabid of his detractors (like you)now claim.

Siddhartha Vicious on September 12, 2011 at 6:47 PM

Bush Led. Terror Fled.

Black Adam on September 12, 2011 at 6:54 PM

Bush Led. Terror Fled.

Black Adam on September 12, 2011 at 6:54 PM

Excellent.

Siddhartha Vicious on September 12, 2011 at 7:00 PM

Smiley admits that he doesn’t know if Bush was lying ["I can't get inside his head..."] , so, in effect, Tavis is blatantly lying when he claims “Bush lied”.

Loser manque.

profitsbeard on September 12, 2011 at 7:10 PM

As much as I dislike him and the rest of the lame-stream media, I have to give Joe his props on that. W may have wanted war, both for the intel from many sources and the fact that Saddam had tried to go after his father, but lie about the reason? I will never believe he lied to get us in.

ArkCon on September 12, 2011 at 7:12 PM

My favorite related comment was by a commenter on Tim Blair’s blog:


Bush lied! Fingers dyed!

Perfect

DrZin on September 12, 2011 at 7:30 PM

My favorite (I think it’s original) it is my take on the whole not my President schtick from GoreLosers

OBAMMY AIN’T MY MAMMY

Wood Dragon on September 12, 2011 at 8:17 PM

How about:
Obama Lied and the Friggin Country Died!
SayNo2-O on September 12, 2011 at 3:45 PM

How bout

Obama’s lazy……you fill out the rest!

DSchoen on September 12, 2011 at 8:42 PM

W may have wanted war, both for the intel from many sources and the fact that Saddam had tried to go after his father, but lie about the reason? I will never believe he lied to get us in.

ArkCon on September 12, 2011 at 7:12 PM

Sorry, I don’t buy the idea that any President “wants war”.

As for the “Saddam had tried to go after his father” meme, that is a favorite Talking Point for The Left. However, when you remind them that said assassination attempt was one of the more than 1 dozen reasons cited in the Authorization of Force that many Democrats in Congress happily signed off on, they will simply pretend that vote never happened.

As Right Wing Source P-BS tells us:

In 1993, Bush visited Kuwait to commemorate the coalition’s victory over Iraq in the Gulf War, where he was targeted in an assassination plot. Kuwaiti authorities arrested 17 people allegedly involved in using a car bomb to kill Bush. Through interviews with the suspects and examinations of the bomb’s circuitry and wiring, the FBI established that the plot had been directed by the Iraqi Intelligence Service. A Kuwaiti court later convicted all but one of the defendants. Two months later, in retaliation, Clinton ordered the firing of 23 cruise missiles at Iraqi Intelligence Service headquarters in Baghdad. The day before the strike commenced, U.S. Ambassador to the UN Madeleine Albright went before the Security Council to present evidence of the Iraqi plot. After the missiles were fired, Vice President Al Gore said the attack “was intended to be a proportionate response at the place where this plot” to assassinate Bush “was hatched and implemented”.

It’s interesting to note that 10 years later, the Far-Left UK Guardian reported this:

America’s decision to directly target Saddam Hussein was deemed legal by experts in international law yesterday, despite the Geneva convention and a presidential ban on assassinating foreign leaders which has been signed by President Bush.

President Saddam, it is argued, can be treated as a fair target because he is chief of the Iraqi military at a time of war. “International human rights law allows you to target military commanders,” said Jim Ross, the senior legal analyst at Human Rights Watch in New York. “The Geneva convention gives a great deal of leeway when it comes to attacking combatants.”

See, it’s OK for one country to kill a current leader of another country if those two countries are engaged in military hostilities.

But find me one law that condones doing the same to a former leader of another country who is on a non-military-related mission.

Del Dolemonte on September 12, 2011 at 9:08 PM

It really is true… Mr. Smiley is quite stupid if he can’t follow a logical thought as it was presented. All the eye rolling and head shaking won’t change what he can’t somehow accept: the president acted on his best knowledge at the time and what was the accepted knowledge before Bush was even inaugurated.

princetrumpet on September 12, 2011 at 9:11 PM

Good for you, Joe. The first time you’ve made sense all year!

disa on September 12, 2011 at 9:53 PM

Constantine on September 12, 2011 at 5:19 PM

OSP? Never heard of it but went with your link.
Office of Special Plans

Seymour Hersh writes that, according to an unnamed Pentagon adviser, “[OSP] was created in order to find evidence of what Wolfowitz and his boss, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, believed to be true —that Saddam Hussein had close ties to Al Qaeda,

OSP? Never heard of it but went with your link.
Office of Special Plans

Seymour Hersh writes that, according to an unnamed Pentagon adviser, “[OSP] was created in order to find evidence of what Wolfowitz and his boss, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, believed to be true —that Saddam Hussein had close ties to Al Qaeda,

This must have been the shortish research in history!
The Guardian February 6, 1999

Saddam link to Bin Laden

By Julian Borger The Guardian January 11, 1999

Saddam Hussein’s regime has opened talks with Osama bin Laden, bringing closer the threat of a terrorist attack using chemical, biological or nuclear weapons, according to US intelligence sources and Iraqi opposition officials.

News of the negotiations emerged in a week when the US attorney general, Janet Reno, warned the Senate that a terrorist attack involving weapons of mass destruction was a growing concern.  “There’s a threat, and it’s real,” Ms Reno said, adding that such weapons “are being considered for use.”

Did ya get that? Saddam Hussein’s has opened talks with OBL, Confirmed by USAG Ms Reno in the US Senate! In 1999, that’s BEFORE Bush was elected

NEWSWEEK Saddam + Bin Laden?  America’s two enemies are courting.

By Christopher Dickey, Gregory Vistica, and Russell Watson January 11, 1999

Here’s what is known so far: Saddam Hussein, who has a long record of supporting terrorism, is trying to rebuild his intelligence network overseas — assets that would allow him to establish a terrorism network. US sources say he is reaching out to Islamic terrorists, including some who may be linked to Osama bin Laden, the wealthy Saudi exile accused of masterminding the bombing of two US embassies in Africa last summer.

 

Saddam and bin Laden have interests — and enemies — in common.  Both men want US military forces out of Saudi Arabia.  Bin Laden has been calling for all-out war on Americans, using as his main pretext Washington’s role in bombing and boycotting Iraq.  Now bin Laden is engaged in something of a public-relations offensive, having granted recent interviews, one for NEWSWEEK.  He says “any American who pays taxes to his government” is a legitimate target.

Did ya get that? Saddam and Bin Laden together from NEWSWEEK January 11, 1999.
Hate ta Beat ya over the head with this but some folks, like you are a little slow!
January 11, 1999 was BEFORE Bush was elected! Before Rumsfeld! And ya don’t need the CIA, NSA to read NEWSWEEK! Or the Guardian, or the Congressional record!

The Washington Post January 23, 1999; Page A02

Official Cites Gains Against Bin Laden

By Vernon Loeb

Richard A. Clarke, the Clinton administration’s senior counterterrorism official, provided new information in defense of President Clinton’s decision to fire Tomahawk cruise missiles at the El Shifa pharmaceutical plant in Khartoum, Sudan, in retaliation for Osama bin Laden’s role in the Aug. 7 embassy bombings.

Clarke said U.S. intelligence does not know how much of the substance was produced at El Shifa or what happened to it.  But he said that intelligence exists linking bin Laden to El Shifa’s current and past operators, the Iraqi nerve gas experts, and the National Islamic Front in Sudan.

Did ya get that? Richard A. Clarke links OBL and Saddam to WMD’s in 1999!
your a little slow, but please try and keep up! This report was in the The Washington Post January 23, 1999
January 11, 1999 was BEFORE Bush was elected! Before Rumsfeld! And ya don’t need the CIA, NSA to read NEWSWEEK! Or the Guardian, or the Congressional record or the Washington Post!

And the best you can do is cite unknown “whatever’s OPS” using unnamed sources and Seymour Hersh?
ROFLMAO!!

DSchoen on September 12, 2011 at 9:56 PM

Siddhartha Vicious on September 12, 2011 at 6:47 PM

To add to that how bout some quotes from the guy who got security brief’s with President Clinton for 8 years?

February 13, 2002 The New York Times
Al Gore said last night that the time had come for a “final reckoning” with Iraq, describing the country as a “virulent threat in a class by itself” and suggesting that the United States should consider ways to oust Saddam Hussein.

“Even if we give first priority to the destruction of terrorist networks, and even if we succeed, there are still governments that could bring us great harm.  And there is a clear case that one of these governments in particular represents a virulent threat in a class by itself: Iraq.  As far as I am concerned, a final reckoning with that government should be on the table.”

   The New York Times
   Gore, Championing Bush, Calls For a ‘Final Reckoning’ With Iraq
   February 13, 2002

And a whopping 7 months later Gore completely changed his tune when he said:

“Iraq’s search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to completely deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power.

We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country.”

   Al Gore, Former Clinton Vice-President
   Speech to San Francisco Commonwealth Club
   September 23, 2002

opps sorry, wrong tune. This is where Gore, after 8 years of security brief’s with President Clinton confirmed that for 8 years he and President Clinton thought/believed Saddam had WMD’s.

That should be good enough for most people who don’t think Bush/Cheney/ Rumsfeld Vulcan mind control over every member of the US government and the MSM.

DSchoen on September 12, 2011 at 10:18 PM

Listening to Travis Smiley is almost as irritating as listening
to Obama.

Revise that history brother.
Mold it to fit the heads of liberal nitwits.

I’ll keep my day job. . . .

BTW, He was on Hannity tonight. Barfbag alert if you catch
the rerun at 11PM central

Texyank on September 12, 2011 at 10:36 PM

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