Coulter on Palin: Let’s face it, she’s probably not electable

posted at 10:01 pm on September 6, 2011 by Allahpundit

Interesting segment, not because Coulter’s advancing any new criticisms of Palin but because she’s willing to acknowledge openly the political risk on the right in criticizing her in the first place. According to Coulter, conservatives refuse to challenge Palin publicly because they don’t want to deal with the hate mail from her supporters. That’s part of it, I’m sure — by now, all columnists and bloggers know what awaits after criticizing Palin or, say, Ron Paul — but I suspect the better part is that there’s simply no faster ticket to RINOville among some grassroots conservatives than uttering a discouraging word about Sarah. It’s the ultimate “one of us” litmus test; not even a right-winger as stalwart and confrontational as Coulter is immune, apparently, from the inevitable establishment/RINO/sellout/”Beltway cocktail party” nonsense afterward. That said, I’m curious why she’s speaking up now. Has she reached the point where she just doesn’t care anymore? Or is she so worried about the election that she’s willing to lose some fans in the interest of maximizing the GOP’s advantage?

Exit quotation: “She’s become sort of the Obama of the tea party, she’s just ‘The One’ to a certain segment of right-wingers.” Click the image to watch.

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Well at least you didn’t talk about cross country skiers :-)

MJBrutus on September 7, 2011 at 12:18 PM

Or exotic dancers.

gryphon202 on September 7, 2011 at 12:19 PM

I said I think that is the essence of some Palin supporters’ supposedly righteous fury. I didn’t say I shared in that sentiment. I think a more accurate assertion would be that no one has the ability to keep her from running should she so choose. Isn’t that basically what you’re saying?

gryphon202 on September 7, 2011 at 12:05 PM

It’s exactly what I’m saying. The thing is, when people talk about a right to keep her from running, what they’re basically doing is trying to shut down criticism. It’s an old tried-and-true tactic, except that it’s weak. And yes, it is the essence of their fanatic zealotry.

Here’s the ultimate difference between a supporter and a fanatic: supporters will counter reasonable criticism with defense, fanatics counter criticism with offense. Supporters can tell the difference between someone who doesn’t support their candidate and someone who dislikes their candidate. Fanatics can’t. Supporters can discern scummy lefty talking points from specific concerns about a candidate’s positions or strengths/weaknesses. Fanatics can’t. Ultimately, fanatics see anyone who challenges anything about their candidate as an enemy, and it’s usually because their own support of the candidate is so based in identity politics, that they’re afraid that too much reasonable criticism might shake their faith. Supporters are not worried about this. If a supporter hears enough substantial information that turns them off, they move to another candidate. They’re not afraid to do so. They’re not invested in a personality, they’re invested in a set of values and positions.

MadisonConservative on September 7, 2011 at 12:22 PM

gh on September 7, 2011 at 12:15 PM

Let me clarify, for your benefit. Sarah is in trouble with the American voters, and will never be POTUS because of this.

Really Right on September 7, 2011 at 12:23 PM

Supporters are not worried about this. If a supporter hears enough substantial information that turns them off, they move to another candidate. They’re not afraid to do so. They’re not invested in a personality, they’re invested in a set of values and positions.

MadisonConservative on September 7, 2011 at 12:22 PM

I think I’m a supporter. I hope so, at any rate.

gryphon202 on September 7, 2011 at 12:23 PM

Let me clarify, for your benefit. Sarah is in trouble with the American voters, and will never be POTUS because of this.

Really Right on September 7, 2011 at 12:23 PM

I reject that assertion out-of-hand, as it requires you to be able to know the future. Even assuming a poll’s accuracy, it is an indicator of how people feel now. Not a year from now.

gryphon202 on September 7, 2011 at 12:24 PM

gryphon202 on September 7, 2011 at 12:23 PM

You have a sense of humor. That’s pretty much my litmus test :-)

MJBrutus on September 7, 2011 at 12:26 PM

Here’s the ultimate difference between a supporter and a fanatic: supporters will counter reasonable criticism with defense, fanatics counter criticism with offense.
MadisonConservative on September 7, 2011 at 12:22 PM

That’s an interesting distinction. I consider myself neither a supporter nor a fanatic. I am a not disinterested observer. Obama must go and after that, what he represents must be cured. Palin is the only one out there who shows real promise of solving both problems. Perry might. Rubio and a few others hold out hope for the future.

gh on September 7, 2011 at 12:26 PM

You have a sense of humor. That’s pretty much my litmus test :-)

MJBrutus on September 7, 2011 at 12:26 PM

Sometimes that’s the only way to cope when the world is falling apart around you.

gryphon202 on September 7, 2011 at 12:26 PM

Let me clarify, for your benefit. Sarah is in trouble with the American voters, and will never be POTUS because of this.

Really Right on September 7, 2011 at 12:23 PM

That’s not clarification. It’s propaganda. I hope you are well paid. Can you tell us who signs the cheques ?

gh on September 7, 2011 at 12:27 PM

gh on September 7, 2011 at 12:27 PM

It’s from a shadowy group that calls itself, “The Establishment.” I know, because I’ve seen him at our strategy meetings.

MJBrutus on September 7, 2011 at 12:31 PM

MJBrutus on September 7, 2011 at 12:31 PM

Ah. Of course. Bilderbergers ?

gh on September 7, 2011 at 12:31 PM

Ah. Of course. Bilderbergers ?

gh on September 7, 2011 at 12:31 PM

The Bilderbergers are predominately businessmen. I can’t imagine them wanting to sabotage the prospects of a pro-business president, but who really knows?

gryphon202 on September 7, 2011 at 12:32 PM

gh on September 7, 2011 at 12:31 PM

Nope. The Establishment controls them, not the other way around.

MJBrutus on September 7, 2011 at 12:32 PM

gryphon202 on September 7, 2011 at 12:32 PM

I thought that a large fraction were european aristocrats (most of whom also count as “businessmen”).

gh on September 7, 2011 at 12:34 PM

That’s an interesting distinction. I consider myself neither a supporter nor a fanatic. I am a not disinterested observer. Obama must go and after that, what he represents must be cured. Palin is the only one out there who shows real promise of solving both problems. Perry might. Rubio and a few others hold out hope for the future.

gh on September 7, 2011 at 12:26 PM

This is where I consider myself as well–MadisonConservative’s unfounded accusations of me notwithstanding.

KickandSwimMom on September 7, 2011 at 12:34 PM

MJBrutus on September 7, 2011 at 12:32 PM

I shall remember to be more polite to you in future then. Don’t want to wake up with a horses head.

gh on September 7, 2011 at 12:35 PM

gh on September 7, 2011 at 12:35 PM

I’ll inform my masters of your acquiescence.

MJBrutus on September 7, 2011 at 12:36 PM

I thought that a large fraction were european aristocrats (most of whom also count as “businessmen”).

gh on September 7, 2011 at 12:34 PM

A significant number, yes. I don’t know about a plurality, though.

gryphon202 on September 7, 2011 at 12:37 PM

What the beltway GOP needs are supporters who are pathetic and weak…

all they better to take orders from their betters.

idesign on September 7, 2011 at 12:37 PM

I’ll inform my masters of your acquiescence.

MJBrutus on September 7, 2011 at 12:36 PM

Thank you for letting me know. You can continue your crusade.

derft on September 7, 2011 at 12:39 PM

MadisonConservative’s unfounded accusations of me notwithstanding.

KickandSwimMom on September 7, 2011 at 12:34 PM

I notice you haven’t had the balls to admit I never stated an opposition to Palin’s candidacy, or that, in fact, I support it.

MadisonConservative on September 7, 2011 at 12:40 PM

I find it interesting that Laura decided Palin isn’t interested in policy details because she hasn’t released a detailed economic plan, like Romney’s, which she praised.

However, Romney has been running for three years, and his plan came out yesterday.

Cognitive dissonance there.

I also find it interesting that Coulter, the brave fearless conservative warrior, is afraid of some emails. Given her worshipful non-critical attitude toward Chris Christie, I also find it amusing that she is able to go on national TV and criticize Palin supporters with a straight face.

She went through a list of things conservatives will have a problem with Perry over as well, but I have never heard any mention from her about the much longer list of problems with Chris Christie from a conservative perspective.

For instance, why has Christie refused to enter New Jersey into the multi-state Florida ObamaCare case?

There is more than meets the eye here, it seems.

Brian1972 on September 7, 2011 at 12:42 PM

There is more than meets the eye here, it seems.

Brian1972 on September 7, 2011 at 12:42 PM

I don’t think so. They both support other candidates and feel the need to pump up by tearing down. Big whoop. Doesn’t change my mind.

gryphon202 on September 7, 2011 at 12:46 PM

I notice you haven’t had the balls to admit I never stated an opposition to Palin’s candidacy, or that, in fact, I support it.

MadisonConservative on September 7, 2011 at 12:40 PM

I’ll back you up on that one.

We had a rather long and civil discussion some time back, a few months ago where MadCon asked me some straight questions about why I like Palin, and how can she win.

I answered as forthrightly as I could, and on the reasons I like her history and issue stances he agreed with me completely.
The question was really how can she pull it off?
We had a good debate about it, without any of the stupidity that has become all too common around here, and concluded we agree about Palin’s worthiness, but I’m more optimistic about her chances to get it done than he is.

MadCon ain’t no Palin Hater.

I would call him a Palin supporter with nagging doubts about how everyone else will receive her candidacy.

That about right?

Brian1972 on September 7, 2011 at 12:48 PM

MadCon ain’t no Palin Hater.

I would call him a Palin supporter with nagging doubts about how everyone else will receive her candidacy.

That about right?

Brian1972 on September 7, 2011 at 12:48 PM

Hear hear! +1

gryphon202 on September 7, 2011 at 12:50 PM

Is it Palin’s resignation that annoys you the most? Do you not believe her explanation ?

gh on September 7, 2011 at 11:40 AM

I have to be fairly confident in the person asking for the explanation before I give it. I probably didn’t figure you were being genuine.

My main issue is the resignation because it damages her with most people. I agree with most of what she says and wish she had stuck it out, and up until just a few months ago, I hoped she could repair her image. I have given up on that. I do think she is unelectable but has the influence to shape the debate. If she runs, she will lose, and then she loses the ability to shape the debate. And we desperately need her to do so.

The exchanges I have with the Palin loons is mostly just tweaking them for being stiff necked and acerbic. They castigate anyone who criticizes Palin so I see no reason to try and to have any conversation with them that addresses her problems openly. They ALWAYS resort to name calling and personal attacks.

My accusations that they are obsessed are simply poking them until they realize they cannot win anyone to their thinking while they are attacking them as a person. There certainly are instances where we on the other side are guilty of the name calling, me included, but as is evident by the comments by the people who run Hot Air, the segment of Palin fans that do that are the instigators of a vast majority of the name calling.

Thank you for not denigrating my sons service. And I don’t know if pilot dude is for real. Do you imagine a US Army pilot would be dumb enough to try to get personal information about a family member from a member of the 160th? I don’t. My kids have told me on a few occasions that the questions I have asked are not ones he can discuss. And I know my sons father in law would NEVER give personal information to anyone.

csdeven on September 7, 2011 at 12:52 PM

I don’t think so. They both support other candidates and feel the need to pump up by tearing down. Big whoop. Doesn’t change my mind.

gryphon202 on September 7, 2011 at 12:46 PM

Doesn’t change my mind about Palin either, but Coulter’s silly Christie fanclub routine has changed my mind about her to some degree. It has been extremely annoying when she uses every single TV appearance to fellate him shamelessly, while ignoring the real substantive issues with him from a conservative point of view, such as Mark Levin’s still unanswered list of questions for him.

Laura has dropped in my eyes as well the last year or two, and this lame book she is hawking doesn’t help much.

I still find them both entertaining for the most part, but both have lost respect from me as of late.

Brian1972 on September 7, 2011 at 12:53 PM

I notice you haven’t had the balls to admit I never stated an opposition to Palin’s candidacy, or that, in fact, I support it.

MadisonConservative on September 7, 2011 at 12:40 PM

Well, I haven’t had the “balls” because I don’t physically have “balls.” You were basically spamming the thread by playing a game of semantics with me. You knew exactly what the point of my post was but you deliberately obfuscated it by feigning outrage over constitutional rights–whatever floats your boat. As far as you being a supporter of Palin, yipee.

So, now that we have solved nothing, lets just drop it and spare the readers, shall we?

KickandSwimMom on September 7, 2011 at 12:54 PM

“The exchanges I have with the Palin loons is mostly just tweaking them for being stiff necked and acerbic”

“They ALWAYS resort to name calling and personal attacks”.

csdeven on September 7, 2011 at 12:52 PM

Seriously? You are no saint.

darwin on September 7, 2011 at 1:00 PM

You are no saint.

darwin on September 7, 2011 at 1:00 PM

Who Dat?

Brian1972 on September 7, 2011 at 1:02 PM

Palin is pervasive in the debate right now as this thread proves. It just seems obvious that her name would come up. We’re jazzed about having a true leader to rally behind and I don’t understand why so many people want to pee on the parade.

mike_NC9 on September 7, 2011 at 12:17 PM

good god. I don’t want to pee on any parade, but for example, if it is a post about the debates and people are discussing performances in teh debat, why would you have to come on and start talking about Palin who did nto participate in the debate.

I’m going to stop trying. The fact that it is annoying and immature doesn’t bother people and they are going to keep on doing it, even if it is a disservice to your cause. It’s this type of thinking right there that I am talking about. Not everyone wants to see Palin discussed the way Palin people want to push it into every thread. But have your fun.

Monkeytoe on September 7, 2011 at 1:03 PM

Oooohhh yeeeaahhhh. Aaaah. Got my “grammy’s basement” fix for the day. I’m all good…

Dongemaharu on September 7, 2011 at 10:33 AM

You shouldn’t be proud of living in your grammy’s basement. She is only being nice to you because that was the way of her generation. Unfortunately for you, the concept of being able to help others rather than being a sponge off of society will never dawn on you. You obsess on me for your own benefit. You don’t care how creeped out regular people are by it and how they feel like they must guard their personal information from you.

csdeven on September 7, 2011 at 1:09 PM

You’re right. This is a political blog, but let’s talk about the upcoming baseball playoffs. We wouldn’t want to upset you.

MJBrutus on September 7, 2011 at 10:45 AM

No, no, no….lets insult people until Palin’s numbers get better. That has to be the strategy of the delusional members of the St Palin the Victimized congregation, because for every criticism of Palin, they feel that insulting others is preferable to defending her as a way to influence us to their way of thinking.

csdeven on September 7, 2011 at 1:12 PM

As much as you pollster humping mentalists want to believe it is, it’s not. The polls may or may not reflect reality. The issue is whether I trust them enough to stake the future of my country on the opinions of isolated semi-randomly chosen groups of 1000 people. I don’t.

gryphon202 on September 7, 2011 at 12:11 PM

And you want to claim we can have a reasonable, adult conversation about Palin?

Are you disputing the accuracy of polls? That they have pretty credibly predicted election results for over 50 years?

You can argue that Palin may be able to move the polls and win, that would be an argument. But to just ignore the polls and pretend Palin does not have some hurdles to overcome is just mindless zealotry. Taht is excatly the kind of thing we in the middle – between the passionate palin as second-coming crowd and anti-palin haters – are talking about when we say it is impossible to have a rational, rasonable discussion about Palin. You have the haters on one side saying silly things and the pro-palin people on the other side saying things just as silly.

Palin can’t walk on water. The polls reflect a real issue she has to deal with. Or, if you don’t believe in polls, then how can you believe that Obama is in trouble? Maybe everyone really, really loves Obama right now and the polls are just wrong.

I mean, if Palin got in the race and it was pretty even toward the end of the primary and came down to the last state as to who gets the nomination between 2 candidates, and the polls still showed Palin being opposed 60 – 40 by independents and no support among democrats and with less than 70% support among republicans and the other GOP candidate being favored 60-40 by independents, and supported by upwards of 90% of republicans and even supported by some democrats, at that point would you still want Palin to win the primary knowing she is most likely doomed in the general election giving Obama a second term? (Note – this is a hypothetical, I’m not saying that is what would happen so don’t argue about whether or not this is the likely primary outcome or what her polls would be, that is irrelevent to the hypothetical).

At some point, polls and electability does matter. I am more than willing to give Palin the opportunity to jump in the race and prove she can move her numbers amongst independnts and would probably vote for her in the primary if she did, but please be realistic. she has issues to overcome as demonstrated by the polls. whether those issues are fair or not, they exist.

Monkeytoe on September 7, 2011 at 1:13 PM

I would call him a Palin supporter with nagging doubts about how everyone else will receive her candidacy.

That about right?

Brian1972 on September 7, 2011 at 12:48 PM

Not how everyone else will receive her candidacy, but how they’ll receive her nomination, and the matchup with Obama. I’m of a firm belief that this is Obama’s only term, but up against someone as polarizing as Palin(not an attack, but an observation), the odds are sketchy. And as to the polls matching Obama versus various GOP candidates, I think they’re part bulls**t. I think most of the field could beat Obama in the general. Yes, even Ron Paul.

MadisonConservative on September 7, 2011 at 1:18 PM

You knew exactly what the point of my post was but you deliberately obfuscated it by feigning outrage over constitutional rights…

KickandSwimMom on September 7, 2011 at 12:54 PM

You’re a liar, but hey, you have the right to be one.

MadisonConservative on September 7, 2011 at 1:19 PM

So I guess Palin isn’t so bad since you believe she would win the primary.

KickandSwimMom on September 7, 2011 at 11:06 AM

That isn’t the point. The point is that any GOP nominee will have to contend with the indies. In Palins case, her dismal poll numbers show that the indie vote dilutes any strength she had in an all GOP primary. A GOP nominee who can win in the general will have their votes strengthened by getting the indies to vote for them.

csdeven on September 7, 2011 at 1:20 PM

So I guess Palin isn’t so bad since you believe she would win the primary.

KickandSwimMom on September 7, 2011 at 11:06 AM

I don’t think anyone is really arguing that Palin is “bad”, just that we worry that independents would not vote for her. She can prove us wrong by getting in the race and moving her numbers in a positive direction in the polls.

Monkeytoe on September 7, 2011 at 1:32 PM

MadisonConservative on September 7, 2011 at 1:18 PM

I see your point.

It is my contention that over the primary season the long process of deciding the nomination, which will be covered endlessly, is in itself something of a game changer outside the GOP electorate.

Since there is no contest (as of yet) on the other side, everyone will be watching this primary unfold.

If Palin does get in and begin to do well on the ground, the media narrative will reflect that. As people see her perform, winning others over, presenting plans for reform that make sense, this will change the perception of her outside the GOP. The libs, they are hopeless.

As a case in point, take Hillary Clinton. She had high negative poll numbers for years, but she ran anyway. Through the process of the primary against Obama, she got some respect for her determination and discipline she had not previously gotten because of her performance in that campaign. Now, you have people who for years said Hillary was America’s worst nightmare saying she would have been a better President than Obama. These are conservatives I’m talking about.

With that in mind, what happens when the headlines are showing her gaining on the “frontrunners”, and she just keeps on making sense and shaking hands, soldiering on.

Then one day you get this:

PALIN TAKES IOWA

What does that do to the conversation, the perceptions held in the public with people who did not participate but have been observing the whole process? She’s the Comeback Kid, the Underdog Winner.

Anything is possible from there.

That is assuming two things as yet in the future, that she does enter the race, and that she runs hard and well.

We’ll have to see how that turns out, but from what I’ve seen her do before she certainly has the retail political skill to get into Iowa and close the gap.

I want to see that.

Brian1972 on September 7, 2011 at 1:35 PM

csdeven on September 7, 2011 at 1:20 PM

If Palin should get the nomination. I think she will get some of the indie or “moderate” votes as well as some of the democrat votes. And she should get all of the conservative votes. I can see her winning every single state. Why should I compromise at this point? If she doesn’t run, I’ll have to go to plan B, but right now, I’m going to fight hard for this. Sorry if you feel insulted, but I think you take this comment board way to personal and seriously.

mike_NC9 on September 7, 2011 at 1:41 PM

That said, I’m curious why she’s speaking up now. Has she reached the point where she just doesn’t care anymore?

Maybe she blew herself up already so it doesn’t matter

Exit quotation: “She’s become sort of the Obama of the tea party, she’s just ‘The One’ to a certain segment of right-wingers.” Click the image to watch.

It is not that Palin is the One to the Tea Party. It is that the ones in the Republican Party who hate Palin are the ones who also hate the Tea Party

The Tea Party is built of the disenfranchised and distrustful. They already know the GOP will take their vote and then ignore their interests. The talking down has continued as this election builds.

entagor on September 7, 2011 at 1:44 PM

You’re a liar, but hey, you have the right to be one.

MadisonConservative on September 7, 2011 at 1:19 PM

I am no liar and do not appreciate your once again accusing me of something I am not. I could just as easily call you a liar for calling me a fanatical Palin supporter, but I don’t throw around such terms lightly. Now, kindly back-off and go berate someone else. I’ll not respond anymore to you.

KickandSwimMom on September 7, 2011 at 1:55 PM

I don’t think anyone is really arguing that Palin is “bad”, just that we worry that independents would not vote for her. She can prove us wrong by getting in the race and moving her numbers in a positive direction in the polls.

Monkeytoe on September 7, 2011 at 1:32 PM

She’s been making a play for indies (and Dems) by highlighting her record of taking on corruption in both parties and by speaking up about the crony capitalism in which both parties are currently engaged. The more people like Coulter and Ingraham and Republican consultants attack her, the more indies and Dems will be compelled to ask why.

steebo77 on September 7, 2011 at 1:55 PM

Then one day you get this:

PALIN TAKES IOWA

What does that do to the conversation, the perceptions held in the public with people who did not participate but have been observing the whole process? She’s the Comeback Kid, the Underdog Winner.I want to see that.

Brian1972 on September 7, 2011 at 1:35 PM

It means nothing. Mike Huckabee won Iowa; how’d that turn out for him?

Vyce on September 7, 2011 at 1:57 PM

It means nothing. Mike Huckabee won Iowa; how’d that turn out for him?

Vyce on September 7, 2011 at 1:57 PM

Oh come on!

It means nothing?

I’ll tell you what it means, it means she would have the Big Mo going into South Carolina.

PALIN WINS PALMETTO PRIMARY

That mean nothing as well?

Remember that on the Dem side, Obama won Iowa and shocked the Democrat establishment. Thus began the turn against Hillary among the top people in their party.

Don’t dismiss Palin. It would be a mistake.

Brian1972 on September 7, 2011 at 2:03 PM

It is not that Palin is the One to the Tea Party. It is that the ones in the Republican Party who hate Palin are the ones who also hate the Tea Party.

The Tea Party is built of the disenfranchised and distrustful. They already know the GOP will take their vote and then ignore their interests. The talking down has continued as this election builds.

entagor on September 7, 2011 at 1:44 PM

Yes. If we are to have a real voice, Palin is it. If it’s not in the cards, it will be the same ole, same ole. Someone else will win the nomination and we will be presumptuously petted on our little Hobbit heads while they slyly demand we give them our votes to prove we are good Republicans.

Fallon on September 7, 2011 at 2:13 PM

Brian1972 on September 7, 2011 at 2:03 PM

Stay tuned for more … (announcer voice) Headlines From the Future

(cue the theme song)

MJBrutus on September 7, 2011 at 2:13 PM

At some point, polls and electability does matter.

The poll that matters will be taken on the first Tuesday of November 2012.

I am more than willing to give Palin the opportunity to jump in the race and prove she can move her numbers amongst independnts and would probably vote for her in the primary if she did, but please be realistic. she has issues to overcome as demonstrated by the polls. whether those issues are fair or not, they exist.

Monkeytoe on September 7, 2011 at 1:13 PM

And those issues are inconsequential to me. Polls are not how I make my decisions. We ignore conservative principles at our peril.

gryphon202 on September 7, 2011 at 2:19 PM

Stay tuned for more … (announcer voice) Headlines From the Future

(cue the theme song)

MJBrutus on September 7, 2011 at 2:13 PM

Thank you so much for your valuable contribution to this discussion.

Such wisdom is rare, indeed Oh Great One./

Brian1972 on September 7, 2011 at 2:24 PM

If Palin can win Iowa and take 2nd in NH she’s got the nomination sewn up. If she can win IA and SC, she’s got it close to sewn up even if she bombs in NH.

Nothing succeeds like success. Most blacks did not support Obama before he won IA because they didn’t think he was electable. Obviously that changed. Let the campaign happen.

alwaysfiredup on September 7, 2011 at 2:29 PM

If she runs, she will lose, and then she loses the ability to shape the debate. And we desperately need her to do so.
csdeven on September 7, 2011 at 12:52 PM

If she runs and drops out to support Perry, she will be in the most influential position she could be in without becoming president.

What every who bashes her is afraid of is that she’ll win the nomination and lose the general election. I don’t believe that Obama can win unless he gets serious about the economy or that he can manufacture some horrible crisis and pass it off as the fault of the GOP. That becomes less likely every day.

If she doesn’t run then the most likely scenario is that she supports Perry anyway. She won’t have quite the influence with him in that case unless he gives her a cabinet spot (VP would look stupid but…).

I really don’t see how Palin could lose nor can I see any justification in the panic everyone seems to be in … except the panic on the left which is just delicious.

gh on September 7, 2011 at 2:43 PM

Epic failure. Try again

kingsjester on September 7, 2011 at 11:18 AM

So why did she make a public announcement of her family “vacation” and then throw a fit because the media wanted to know what she was up to?

Epic failure. Try again.

csdeven on September 7, 2011 at 3:00 PM

Too bad that some anti-Palin people are so locked into the mindthink that she’s a loser that they can’t conceive that she “might” win if they supported her if she actually got the nomination.

katiejane on September 7, 2011 at 11:22 AM

Unlike certain Palin fans who use wishful thinking to insist she can win against Obama, we Palin skeptics use tried and true polling that shows she has very little support among the groups that any nominee must have to win in the general. If she were changing the way she approaches the process, she might just improve her numbers. But as it is, she is committed to the same exact path that makes people distrust/dislike her.

Now, how exactly is a simple announcement going to change the perception people have?

csdeven on September 7, 2011 at 3:06 PM

I like Palin but some of her supporters are no different than the Obama fanatics in ’08. <shudders

buckichick1 on September 7, 2011 at 11:24 AM

It’s worse than that! There is a certain group who clearly were Paulnuts!

csdeven on September 7, 2011 at 3:07 PM

Palin is pervasive in the debate right now as this thread proves.

mike_NC9 on September 7, 2011 at 12:17 PM

This thread, and EVERY Palin thread proves only that when someone criticizes Palin, the delusional wing of her fan base leave hundreds of comments insulting others. And then the insults are returned. There is no real debate on Palin or her policies.

csdeven on September 7, 2011 at 3:15 PM

If she runs, she will lose, and then she loses the ability to shape the debate. And we desperately need her to do so.
csdeven on September 7, 2011 at 12:52 PM

You are kidding right?

After all the hyperbole about her you want her to shape the debate?

You are a phony

Sonosam on September 7, 2011 at 3:18 PM

It’s worse than that! There is a certain group who clearly were Paulnuts!

csdeven on September 7, 2011 at 3:07 PM

Or they are the same type of person. Paul and Palin have quite different constituencies.

gh on September 7, 2011 at 3:21 PM

After all the hyperbole about her you want her to shape the debate?

You are a phony

Sonosam on September 7, 2011 at 3:18 PM

There’s lots of people on hotair claiming pretty much the same thing.

Only a month to go before she makes the decision and either we’ll see what happens or everyone will move on.

gh on September 7, 2011 at 3:22 PM

Even assuming a poll’s accuracy, it is an indicator of how people feel now. Not a year from now.

gryphon202 on September 7, 2011 at 12:24 PM

The polls matter now because she must be confident that she can reach the group that can carry her through the general. Without the support of those target groups, she is wasting time, money, and more importantly, the ability to be influential. As it is, she can blame McShamnesty for her loss in 2008. If she runs on her own and loses, she will have been soundly rejected and ergo loses the ability to frame the values of the GOP.

And you better believe that she watches the polls and does her own internal polling to gauge support for her in the general. And I don’t believe that Palin would run just to win the nomination, knowing she would fail in the general. She wants Obama out of there as soon as possible and she will support the candidate that can beat Obama irrespective of their status as a RINO.

csdeven on September 7, 2011 at 3:22 PM

The media is obsessed with when Governor Palin will make her announcement. Why?

http://www.youtube.com/user/CTO4P?feature=mhee#p/f/8/pRP6OKNIvow

Viator on September 7, 2011 at 3:23 PM

So much useless worry about whether Palin can win and what success or failure may mean for her future…before she even gets started. Silly.

Palin is responsible for her own destiny. Either she will get in or she won’t. Either she will win the nomination or she won’t. And if she wins the nomination, she’ll win the general, that is just a given with Obama floundering more each and every day. Ron Paul could win the general in this environment. We just need to find the right candidate with the right views and the right amounts of fight and compromise in order to get some pretty radically conservative results, so that we win something instead of just stop losing.

alwaysfiredup on September 7, 2011 at 3:33 PM

If Palin should get the nomination. I think she will get some of the indie or “moderate” votes as well as some of the democrat votes.

Can you provide some type of data to support that?

And she should get all of the conservative votes.

Certainly.

I can see her winning every single state.

More data please.

Why should I compromise at this point? If she doesn’t run, I’ll have to go to plan B, but right now, I’m going to fight hard for this.

The point is that certain Palin fans should at least be rational.

Sorry if you feel insulted, but I think you take this comment board way to personal and seriously.

mike_NC9 on September 7, 2011 at 1:41 PM

I have been threatened with violence, others have expressed sick sexual fantasies directed at me, and now we have a guy investigating MY SON!

That is serious.

csdeven on September 7, 2011 at 3:50 PM

The poll that matters will be taken on the first Tuesday of November 2012.

gryphon202 on September 7, 2011 at 2:19 PM

The polls that matter are the ones Palin is watching that will help her decide to become a candidate. If she has the support to win in the general, she win run. Her more delusional fans don’t care if she wins the primary and loses the general. The rational ones do. The former are simply looking to have the opportunity to say “I told you so!!!”.

csdeven on September 7, 2011 at 3:55 PM

Sonosam on September 7, 2011 at 3:18 PM

You are ignorant. I have made that statement many times, I just don’t bother updating every one of you Palin fans. I have been tweaking you types for weeks in the hope you would finally see how foolish it is for you to insult those who criticize Palin.

And the result has been that you start obsessing on me rather than argue the merits of the criticisms.

You appear to be hopelessly obsessed on me.

csdeven on September 7, 2011 at 4:01 PM

csdeven on September 7, 2011 at 3:55 PM

I don’t know if you are correct. It’s plausible. Depends on what kind of resources she has. I can think of lots of ways to do the research without resorting to polls. Her organization seems to be completely leak proof. That might mean the inner circle is very small. I wonder if Heritage (from where her economic advisor comes) is helping in any way.

gh on September 7, 2011 at 4:08 PM

There’s lots of people on hotair claiming pretty much the same thing.

Only a month to go before she makes the decision and either we’ll see what happens or everyone will move on.

gh on September 7, 2011 at 3:22 PM

Most of the Palin skeptics have, like me, expressed their conditional support for Palin. But as we have all seen, unless we explain our position before every single discussion, many Palin fans, the delusional ones, refuse to accept anything except 100% lockstep agreement with them. If there is one iota of criticism, they start insulting and name calling.

My view is that most Palin skeptics will support Palin if she is the nominee. I also believe that most Palin fans will support whomever is the GOP nominee. I expected that those facts would generate mutual respect.

csdeven on September 7, 2011 at 4:09 PM

My view is that most Palin skeptics will support Palin if she is the nominee. I also believe that most Palin fans will support whomever is the GOP nominee.

True. But you doubt the electorate.

I expected that those facts would generate mutual respect.

csdeven on September 7, 2011 at 4:09 PM

That’s a pipe dream :-)

gh on September 7, 2011 at 4:12 PM

gh on September 7, 2011 at 4:08 PM

I agree that those who support her, support her 110%. But she cannot be a mile wide and an inch deep. She doesn’t have the ground organization that is generally accepted to be required to win. But she is determined to run an unconventional campaign and it may work for her.

csdeven on September 7, 2011 at 4:12 PM

That’s a pipe dream :-)

gh on September 7, 2011 at 4:12 PM

Clearly. :-)

csdeven on September 7, 2011 at 4:13 PM

I gotta get off hotair now. Lighten up.

gh on September 7, 2011 at 4:14 PM

They’re not invested in a personality, they’re invested in a set of values and positions.

MadisonConservative on September 7, 2011 at 12:22 PM

But values and positions are useless unless the candidate in question has the fortitude to fight for them. That’s part of personality.

Steve Keeley on September 7, 2011 at 4:27 PM

For anyone still reading this thread, Dr. Zero has some good obseravtions in the wake of the Ingraham/Coulter conversation on Palin.

Kataklysmic on September 7, 2011 at 4:34 PM

Palin is not looking at polls to determine whether to run. She does not care what polls say; as she stated, polls going into an election have always shown her down and she usually won anyway. Polls =/= reality or truth; in fact, it’s usually the opposite.

What Palin does care about is this country and the path that it’s on. If there is no candidate who looks like they can handle the enormous challenge of turning it around and not just slowing the descent, she will get in. And presently, there is no reformer on stage with any chance of winning. She’s going to run and try to do it herself.

alwaysfiredup on September 7, 2011 at 4:39 PM

Palin is not looking at polls to determine whether to run. She does not care what polls say; as she stated, polls going into an election have always shown her down and she usually won anyway. Polls =/= reality or truth; in fact, it’s usually the opposite.

What Palin does care about is this country and the path that it’s on. If there is no candidate who looks like they can handle the enormous challenge of turning it around and not just slowing the descent, she will get in. And presently, there is no reformer on stage with any chance of winning. She’s going to run and try to do it herself.

alwaysfiredup on September 7, 2011 at 4:39 PM

I always knew Palin loved a challenge and didn’t care about polls. After watching the undefeated, I actually think she prefers to poll badly in the beginning. I think she likes to see if she can beat the odds.

Kataklysmic on September 7, 2011 at 4:42 PM

Kataklysmic on September 7, 2011 at 4:34 PM

Thanks for that link! I enjoyed the article.

Steve Keeley on September 7, 2011 at 4:45 PM

Palin admitted on, IIRC, Hannity that she is watching the polls to gauge support for a run.

csdeven on September 7, 2011 at 4:46 PM

Palin admitted on, IIRC, Hannity that she is watching the polls to gauge support for a run.

csdeven on September 7, 2011 at 4:46 PM

Huh. I’m not sure how I missed that. If she did say it, I would be interested in watching that segment. I know she said this on 8/13/11:

“Each campaign that I have ever run in these 20 years of elective office have been kind of unconventional, right, Todd? We’ve always been outspent, two-to-one, five-to-one, 10-to-one. Never won any polls heading into election night. But usually won the election.”

Kataklysmic on September 7, 2011 at 4:54 PM

Kataklysmic on September 7, 2011 at 4:34 PM

Again, this guy (Dr Zero?) makes the mistake that a Palin announcement exposes her to a larger audience, and that somehow, she will magically get different treatment than she has been for the last three years.

The fact remains that Palin is recognized by 96% of Americans. Her polling among that group is 65% unfavorable. To extrapolate those numbers, she has 4% that she can reach. Lets say she converts the entire 4%. Add that to the 31% favorable, she has 35% favorabilty among Americans.

35% is not going to cut it. And the fact is that if we apply the same percentage of support to the 4% that she has with the 96%, she will only get 1% of the 4%. That gives her 35% and she needs another 16% to get to 51%. 16% of people who have already made up their minds. And Palin will not change her message nor can she make her resignation go away.

When you look at her head to head with Obama, it is quit clear that there is very little Palin can do while she is on her current path.

csdeven on September 7, 2011 at 4:59 PM

Kataklysmic on September 7, 2011 at 4:54 PM

I will try to find it.

csdeven on September 7, 2011 at 5:00 PM

csdeven on September 7, 2011 at 4:59 PM

I understand what you are saying. It is pretty much the conventional wisdom and a lot of smart people are saying the same thing that you are. Here is what rang true to me in Doc Zero’s piece:

Much of the poll input about Palin, both good and bad, is coming from folks who barely remember her from the 2008 campaign, or mostly think of her as a television personality. Someone who says they would love to vote for her as President might be thinking fondly of an episode from Sarah Palin’s Alaska, while someone who declares they would never vote for her might be thinking of a nasty joke from a late-night comedian. That all changes if she becomes an official candidate and enters the headlines of the 2012 race, just as it’s changing for Rick Perry right now. He had a high profile as well, and has attracted both new supporters and new critics since he emerged from the roiling mists of speculation.

Do I have a greater desire to take stock in this theory than a non-Palin supporter? Probably. But I have also never maintined that a Palin win would be anything less than an Everest climb. YMMV.

Kataklysmic on September 7, 2011 at 5:09 PM

csdeven on September 7, 2011 at 4:59 PM

You are making the mistake that polls today will not change in relation to future events and new information.

In January 2009, Obama had near %100 name recognition and an approval rating of %68.

He has changed the minds of many of those people in the interim through his words, deeds, and lack of results.

To insist that a person who is as much a natural talent as Sarah Palin has no hope of ever moving that unfavorable number down even a single percentile while running a high profile campaign for the GOP nomination is just nonsense.

Now, she may not end up winning, but I would prefer that Palin have a big pile of delegates at the end of the process if she isn’t going to win it. That way she will be the biggest player other than the nominee.

Your rigid adherence to polling data is rather narrow thinking.

The polls change all the time, or else they wouldn’t take a new poll every five seconds.

Getting in the race, challenging these other candidates on the substance of their proposals and records while hammering Obama relentlessly like she loves to do will have many people taking a second look at Palin.

I find the refusal to even consider admitting this is true rather strange.

Brian1972 on September 7, 2011 at 5:29 PM

Palin admitted on, IIRC, Hannity that she is watching the polls to gauge support for a run.

csdeven on September 7, 2011 at 4:46 PM

Link?

alwaysfiredup on September 7, 2011 at 5:31 PM

alwaysfiredup on September 7, 2011 at 5:31 PM

You are a female? I never would have guessed that from your posts.

Really Right on September 7, 2011 at 5:33 PM

You are a female? I never would have guessed that from your posts.

Really Right on September 7, 2011 at 5:33 PM

What does that even mean?

alwaysfiredup on September 7, 2011 at 5:38 PM

alwaysfiredup on September 7, 2011 at 5:38 PM

I thought you were a male until I clicked on your moniker. I guess you post like a male. Not criticizing you for this.

Really Right on September 7, 2011 at 5:47 PM

What does that even mean?

alwaysfiredup on September 7, 2011 at 5:38 PM

Some names connote female. Others, not so much.

Lanceman on September 7, 2011 at 5:49 PM

And those issues are inconsequential to me. Polls are not how I make my decisions. We ignore conservative principles at our peril.

gryphon202 on September 7, 2011 at 2:19 PM

Well, I hate to be mean, but since you absolutely even refuse to consider reality – that Palin has hurldes to overcome with independents and even republicans as reflected in polls – your opinion is pretty meaningless.

I would refrain from going around affirmatively and proudly declaring that facts don’t matter to you – it harms your credibility.

I is one thing to argue that you believe she can overcome the issues she has with independents, its aother to say “she’s the only true conservative and I would rather lose than win with anyone else” as you seem to be saying. You are not the kind of ally the conservative movement needs.

If you go google my name on hotair, I doubt you’ll find a much more conservative commentor than me – but I always try to at least acknowledge reality and take it into account in making decisions.

You just affirmatively stated that reality has no meaning to you. Good luck with that.

Monkeytoe on September 7, 2011 at 6:04 PM

Monkeytoe on September 7, 2011 at 6:04 PM

As a follow up, it is that kind of over-zealous passionate support that some find cultish. The refusal to even acknowledtge reality when it comes to Palin.

“I don’t care that in every poll in the last 3 years independents have had an unfavorable opinion of Palin by at least a 60/40 margin. And I don’t care that even in polls of republicans Palin’s approval is only around 50%. I don’t believe those polls. All she has to do is declare herself a candidate and everyone will swoon and vote for Palin!!”

That is not rational thought. I like and admire Palin, as I have stated many times. I have no problem with her running. I would consider voting for Palin in the primary. But the kind of thought that simply ignores the reality of her numbers and the hurdles she faces is astonishing. And, you don’t see supporters of any other candidate acting like that – simply ignoring such things. They may argue why such things don’t matter, or why you are wrong for claiming “x” about a candidate. But they generally don’t just say “Nah, Nah, Nah, I can’t hear you, facts don’t matter.”

I mean yes, the only poll that really matters is the one on election day. But polling has become a pretty accurate science and to ignore the polls outright is just silly.

Monkeytoe on September 7, 2011 at 6:10 PM

Anyway, I’m logging off.

A reminder.

Palin is still not a candidate. Maybe someday she will be one.

Monkeytoe on September 7, 2011 at 6:12 PM

I find it utterly fascinating long-time Republican/conservative pundits are now bashing Palin supporters. After seeing the enthusiasm of the Palin crowds this weekend in Iowa and New Hampshire, shouting “RUN, SARAH, RUN”, they deride our passionate support for one candidate. I sense they now attack us, as Palin has not disappeared as the elites have long desired.

I Palin isn’t “electable”, then what worry about her running or not? If she goes down to defeat, then one of Coulter’s or Ingram’s approved choices will be the candidate — no big deal.

However, until such time I find a person better than Palin to back, I will remain a Palinista.

Mutnodjmet on September 7, 2011 at 6:33 PM

My view is that most Palin skeptics will support Palin if she is the nominee. I also believe that most Palin fans will support whomever is the GOP nominee. I expected that those facts would generate mutual respect.
csdeven on September 7, 2011 at 4:09 PM

so moderates would accept her?

This is some tactical retreat by you.

That’s not what I remember coming from you

Sonosam on September 7, 2011 at 6:34 PM

I find the refusal to even consider admitting this is true rather strange.

Brian1972 on September 7, 2011 at 5:29 PM

Palin doesn’t have a 68% approval rating. And she has been running a high profile for three years and her numbers haven’t moved.

csdeven on September 7, 2011 at 10:50 PM

I find the refusal to even consider admitting this is true rather strange.

Brian1972 on September 7, 2011 at 5:29 PM

That is because you are so worried about who I am and don’t pay attention to what I say.

csdeven on September 7, 2011 at 11:06 PM

You just affirmatively stated that reality has no meaning to you. Good luck with that.

Monkeytoe on September 7, 2011 at 6:04 PM

The “reality” of polls is that it is a snapshot, at best, of how 1000 or sosemi-randomly selected people feel at any one particular point in time. I don’t think I have a problem with reality when I’m not the one using that method to predict the future.

gryphon202 on September 7, 2011 at 11:44 PM

And “reality” is that Sarah Palin’s principles, as demonstrated, gel the best with mine as opposed to any declared candidates. If she doesn’t run, I’ll reconnoiter and consider accordingly. Until she says she won’t though, I will continue to assert that she might. If that strikes you guys as a piss-poor way to choose a candidate, that says more about you than it says about me.

gryphon202 on September 7, 2011 at 11:46 PM

I mean yes, the only poll that really matters is the one on election day. But polling has become a pretty accurate science and to ignore the polls outright is just silly.

Monkeytoe on September 7, 2011 at 6:10 PM

So I’m right? The only poll that matters is the official one, BUT I’d still be silly to ignore polls? When have I ever said I’m ignoring polls? I just don’t use them to decide who to vote for four months ahead of the first primaries. “Reality” indeed. -.-

gryphon202 on September 7, 2011 at 11:50 PM

On the other hand, MadCon is the person who doubled down on his statement by saying, “I said this shortly after she resigned as governor, and I stand by it.”

So let him stand by it, or clarify it.

Already did, earlier:

I’m not comparing Palin and Obama. I’m comparing Palin’s fanatical supporters and Obama’s fanatical supporters. In their times(Obama’s is ending, and if she doesn’t run, I suspect Palin’s is as well), they have both been such bright political stars that they attract supporters wishing for a figure they can invest zealotry into. However, while I certainly believe that Obama fosters that nonsense, I don’t think Palin does. I think she purposely ignores it because it is of no interest to her. She doesn’t need it to cultivate her image.

MadisonConservative on September 6, 2011 at 10:48 PM

Kay?

My defense of him has run out.

There Goes The Neighborhood on September 7, 2011 at 4:16 AM

I’m heartbroken.

MadisonConservative on September 7, 2011 at 8:19 AM

Whole lotta quotin’ goin’ on, so let’s hope the formatting works.

powerpro objected to a statement you made that called Palin the “Obama of the Right.” Frankly, he’s right, because that statement by itself is about as idiotic as you can get. I highlighted a clarification you had made elsewhere that you were really just referring to both having fanatical followers. That was the sole defense of you, because without that clarification, your comment makes no sense at all. Palin is more the anti-Obama than the Obama of the right. Apart from the purported “cultism,” Palin is the polar opposite of Obama.

Be that as it may, I wasn’t trying to be nice, just fair.

My opinion is still that this whole “Palin cult” is nonsense from people who somehow are blind to the fact that every dynamic, plausible candidate has devoted followers, some of whom go overboard. Even Romney, the candidate with MSNBC levels of support, has a few radical supporters. csdeven, for example, is a little over the top. buy danish is nothing like csdeven, but will spare no effort to brag on Romney while diminishing everyone else. I don’t talk about the Mitt cult, because I expect no different. It was the same in 2008.

But we have a whole bunch of people who talk about nothing else but the crazy Palin cult who worship Saint Sarah. Compare the two groups of people, though, and you’ll find more substantive points get made by the Palin supporters, even if some of them are overzealous. Meanwhile, the bashers go on and on about trivialities.

It’s a childish game, frankly. Let her run. If she’s as bad as the one side claims, she’ll be history shortly after. If she’s as good as the other side claims, she’ll either win the primary or come very close. But no one’s just going to hand her the nomination, because she isn’t Obama. If she wins the nomination, it will be because she earned it.

I think she’s electable, because I believe conservative candidates win, while those trying to play to the middle find they can never out-democrat the Democrat. Reagan didn’t win because he convinced people he was right down the middle. He won because he gave his base something to vote for, the Democrat was useless, and the people in the middle may have thought he was too conservative, but didn’t believe he was a wild-eyed extremist.

Palin will model her run on his. If she’s reading it right, I think she’ll win. Right now, it looks like it will be Perry vs Palin for the primary. Either one should be able to beat Obama like a rented mule.

There Goes The Neighborhood on September 8, 2011 at 12:25 AM

For instance, it weakened Palin’s chances when she resigned as governor. That would be a “reasonable criticism.” It was even “reasonable” for AP and Ed to both declare that her political career was dead.

There Goes The Neighborhood on September 7, 2011 at 3:31 AM

Not according to the fanatical followers of Palin. Anyone who uttered what you just stated had plenty of bile and denouncement to wade through. To suggest otherwise is quite dishonest.

MadisonConservative on September 7, 2011 at 8:23 AM

Reasonable, perhaps. But Reasonable =/= correct.

gryphon202 on September 7, 2011 at 8:28 AM

I completely agree. Ed was not being unreasonable, because that would have ended the political career of most. I think every governor of a state with presidential ambitions is going to cling to his title with a death grip for exactly those reasons.

In this case, though, Ed was mistaken. Because the bottom line is that Palin resigned the governor’s office, but she didn’t quit in any other way. She was just as involved in the political arena after resigning.

The first thing she did was to write an autobiography. Anyone who watches politics knows that writing a book is one of those things that presidential hopefuls do to boos their profile. Plus, the multimillion dollar advance solved the problem of her middle-class income, which was the weak point that the relentless ethics accusations were targeting. Whatever you think of Palin, it’s outrageous how far the left was willing to go to destroy her forever. They were quite willing to bankrupt her and her family, and to bring the government of Alaska to a standstill, just to be sure that Palin was never heard from again. Most of us aren’t perfect, but we try hard to never harm another person willingly. Those targeting Palin were vicious in ways that are hard for most to even contemplate.

Regardless, by getting involved immediately in Congressional campaigns, Palin abandoned a defense that couldn’t be maintained and went on the attack. In one move, she turned the tables and went after the same people who were trying to destroy her. That’s very impressive, even if you think she won’t be able to ultimately win the presidency.

So I don’t blame Ed or AP for thinking she was done, but they did lose punditry points by being so wrong. Sorry.

There Goes The Neighborhood on September 8, 2011 at 12:47 AM

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