Star Spangled Banner ban: Even the wordless music is “too violent”

posted at 5:35 pm on August 26, 2011 by Tina Korbe

Indiana’s Goshen College banned the lyrics to the Star Spangled banner ages ago, but, now, the school has banned the national anthem’s musical accompaniment, too:

Tiny Goshen College in Indiana has banned the “The Star Spangled Banner” at all sporting events because the Mennonite school’s president considers the National Anthem’s words to be too violent.

The 1,000-student school had already banned the words last year, but the band could still play the music for patriots in attendance. Now, the school has banned the song entirely, according to NBC Sports. …

Art professor John Blosser told The Goshen News that there is much national pride at the school, but that most people aren’t going to blindly accept what the country does.

NBC Sports’ Rick Chandler weighed in, saying: “I suppose we could have followed the example of the Mennonites and simply fled, giving the nation back to the British. But then we’d all be playing cricket.”

Not since the 1913 riotous debut of Stravinsky’s “The Rite of Spring” has sheer music been so “violent” — and, somehow, I don’t quite think an adapted 18th-century British tune rivals Stravinsky in its power to incite.

I have no idea why this pesters me enough to write about it. When I first heard of the school’s ban on the lyrics, I defended Goshen. And a defense can be made: The private school has every right to ban the anthem and to uphold its pacifist religious principles. Plus, it really is teensy-tiny. Just 1,000 students. If those few students really want to attend a school that plays the national anthem, they can choose to go elsewhere. But it just seems so, well, petty to ban it at a time when even the last vestiges of patriotic unity have begun to fade from the political scene.

As the 10th anniversary of 9/11 approaches, I can’t help but remember the overwhelming, enveloping sense of patriotism that followed the tragic attacks. The Heritage Foundation has challenged patriotic Americans across the country to commit to flying their flags on Sept. 11 (tweet a picture of your flag flying @Heritage with the hashtag #Flag911 to show your support!). In light of little Goshen’s skittishness, I’m hoping folks will play the Star Spangled Banner loudly that day, too — in opposition to senseless violence and in support of the defense of American ideals.


Related Posts:

Breaking on Hot Air

Blowback

Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.

Trackbacks/Pings

Trackback URL

Comments

Comment pages: 1 2

Moronic. Simply moronic. Hope this school does not get federal funds.

Warner Todd Huston on August 26, 2011 at 5:40 PM

Treason.

Really Right on August 26, 2011 at 5:42 PM

I support their right to do this, but they should realize that they survive as hothouse flowers, only because rough men (and women) are ready to do violence to protect them.

juliesa on August 26, 2011 at 5:43 PM

How utterly boneheaded can these precious little souls be? If they want to stay free enough to do stupid stuff like this, they’re going to have to defend that freedom with a whole lot more than lofty thoughts and pious posturing. And that’s violence baby! Real screaming, bone-crushing, pants-wetting violence!
For God’s sake, get over yourselves!!!

Lew on August 26, 2011 at 5:44 PM

I have to agree with you about it being a choice.

I disagree only in that this policy was NOT in effect when students were making the decision about attending. At least I assume this was the case.

OBQuiet on August 26, 2011 at 5:44 PM

I’m not buying any of their furniture.

keep the change on August 26, 2011 at 5:44 PM

Private religious school, yep, can do what they want. I think what may have gotten your goat (like it got mine) was that after all the years the school has been around, there is FINALLY one school president who says ‘the national anthem is too VIOLENT!’. (Including the MUSIC?)

I’ll wager the “school fight song” is more violent than an anthem that recalls a portion of the War of 1812 when the US homeland was under direct attack, and the author of said anthem wonders if the enemy will succeed.

Perhaps the good school president should look at the rest of the poem from which the anthem derives “Then fight we must, when our cause is just. And this be our motto “In God is our trust”.

Yep, really really violent stuff. All about pillage, rape, killing, conquering, subduing.

GarandFan on August 26, 2011 at 5:45 PM

The Right of Spring

The forbidden word on HA gave birth to this country. The students are misguided.

I’m for peace, one carefully chosen target at a time.

Violence will never be eradicated so long as humans live on Earth.

Utopian idealists are always misguided.

Schadenfreude on August 26, 2011 at 5:45 PM

I attended the Rollout Ceremony for the F-35A this afternoon at Eglin AFB. Not only did we all stand for the National Anthem immediately after we all prayed together. I think that more people need to follow the example that the military sets as far as “God and Country”.
Anytime you see a movie on a military base, you will stand for the National Anthem before the movie starts. During “retreat” on Monday through Friday you will stop in your tracks or in your car and face the direction of the Flag. We all do this without giving it a second thought. I love it. For me personally it’s a source of pride. Pride in my country and faith. I have NEVER once thought that it was violent in any way. I can’t understand anyone who thinks like that.
It’s so sad that it has come to this.

milwife88 on August 26, 2011 at 5:45 PM

To Goshen College:
Please enjoy the freedom to ban the national anthem that we’ve bought for you with our lives, limbs and personal sacrifice.

The US Armed Forces

ted c on August 26, 2011 at 5:46 PM

Bless their little hearts, making a fuss about this. They simply haven’t yet figured out they enjoy their peace lovin’ status only because someone else defends them.

O, thus be it ever when freemen shall stand,
Between their loved home and the war’s desolation!
Blest with victory and peace, may the heav’n-rescued land
Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation!
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto: “In God is our trust”
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

itsacookbook on August 26, 2011 at 5:46 PM

They’re Mennonites… leave them alone…

ninjapirate on August 26, 2011 at 5:46 PM

They speak of violence, yet understand not what it means.

a college? hmph.

ted c on August 26, 2011 at 5:46 PM

They’re within their rights not to play it if they choose so.

However, declaring they aren’t doing it because it’s “too violent” and don’t want to “blindly follow what the country does”? I’m having to restrain myself from comments that would certainly get me moderated, if not banned.

teke184 on August 26, 2011 at 5:49 PM

This sorry ass-society is terminally ill and that school can go straight to hell. This country doesn’t deserve what brave patriots have fought for and preserved for them.

rplat on August 26, 2011 at 5:49 PM

Maybe they’re afraid people might listen to the music and think the lyrics. Can’t have that, now, can we?

Blaise on August 26, 2011 at 5:50 PM

This school seems to think that playing the national anthem is tantamount to agreeing with US foreign policy. Only in the minds of lefties has that ever been the case.

keep the change on August 26, 2011 at 5:51 PM

Old story about a dopey college

Kini on August 26, 2011 at 5:52 PM

Schadenfreude on August 26, 2011 at 5:45 PM

Plato said, “Only the dead have seen the end of war.”

rplat on August 26, 2011 at 5:49 PM

This is a tiny school, and one I am confident is not representative of the country. There are many in this country who do not deserve it or those who came before us, but the vast part of America considered “flyover country” by the terminally snotty love this country deeply. This is where the Tea Party comes from, and it’s who will save this nation.

DrMagnolias on August 26, 2011 at 5:53 PM

STOP THIS MADNESS!!! Enough is enough. You live in America, you play by her rules, and that means showing respect for both her flag and her anthem, dang it!

StarLady on August 26, 2011 at 5:54 PM

Way too much attention has been given to this already. They’re Mennonites, extremely pacifist, and they’re free to do as they see fit for themselves within the boundaries of our laws and constitution as are all of us. So, yes, to quote ninjapirate… Leave them alone.

FlatFoot on August 26, 2011 at 5:56 PM

Goshen College are dopes…but i’ll defend their right to be dopes with my dying breath.

DrW on August 26, 2011 at 5:57 PM

Since they’re free to do what they wish, they can ban the anthem and call it violent.

But I’ll never, ever understand radical pacifism. Radical pacifism shows an inherent disdain for innocent life — the complete opposite of what it’s supposed to represent.

The fact of the matter is this: violent people exist. They wish to do their victims — Mennonites included — serious harm. Being a pacifist is not going to dissuade them from harming you. But it will allow you to stand idly by while they kill, rape, and pillage.

I choose to defend innocent life with force when necessary. There’s a difference between this reasonable, mature approach the belief the only alternative to pacifism is unhinged, unrestrained violence.

englishqueen01 on August 26, 2011 at 5:59 PM

Plato said, “Only the dead have seen the end of war.”

DrMagnolias on August 26, 2011 at 5:53 PM

Excellent, DrMagnolias. Thanks for sharing.

Schadenfreude on August 26, 2011 at 6:00 PM

Just more insanity.

CW on August 26, 2011 at 6:01 PM

Can we ask the college to move to Pookestan

tarpon on August 26, 2011 at 6:03 PM

So why now? Why are the words or music something you need to get bent out of shape about? Do you there have any idea how many American’s have died seeing to it you can trash our national anthem? You have your 1st because of those who love and died to let you…. Sorry, our family members, as well as millions of others, died for your 1st, but WE, OUR home will always put our hands over our heart and hubby(a vet) will salute when our anthem is played.
L

letget on August 26, 2011 at 6:03 PM

Sensitivity Late Stage Mental Illness.

Lon Chaney on August 26, 2011 at 6:03 PM

What some of us do to our children, and therefore part of our country’s future, is astonishing.

GaltBlvnAtty on August 26, 2011 at 6:05 PM

I fart in their general direction…!

Seven Percent Solution on August 26, 2011 at 6:06 PM

Wonder what they play at commencement? Tiny Tim’s soulful rendition of “Tip Toe Through The Tulips”?

Tim Zank on August 26, 2011 at 6:07 PM

Art professor…

Why is it always the art professor? Grrrr…

Fallon on August 26, 2011 at 6:07 PM

I support their right to do this, but they should realize that they survive as hothouse flowers, only because rough men (and women) are ready to do violence to protect them.

juliesa on August 26, 2011 at 5:43 PM

They would say that they are defended by God. I would tell them that often rough men (and women) are God’s instrument to defend them.

tgharris on August 26, 2011 at 6:08 PM

itsacookbook only printed some of the lyrics:

Oh, say can you see by the dawn’s early light
What so proudly we hailed at the twilight’s last gleaming?
Whose broad stripes and bright stars thru the perilous fight,
O’er the ramparts we watched were so gallantly streaming?
And the rocket’s red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there.
Oh, say does that star-spangled banner yet wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave?

On the shore, dimly seen through the mists of the deep,
Where the foe’s haughty host in dread silence reposes,
What is that which the breeze, o’er the towering steep,
As it fitfully blows, half conceals, half discloses?
Now it catches the gleam of the morning’s first beam,
In full glory reflected now shines in the stream:
‘Tis the star-spangled banner! Oh long may it wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle’s confusion,
A home and a country should leave us no more!
Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps’ pollution.
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave:
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

Oh! thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand
Between their loved home and the war’s desolation!
Blest with victory and peace, may the heav’n rescued land
Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation.
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto: “In God is our trust.”
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave!

This is an epic poem about hope, and the relief from tyranny. The supposed violence is secondary to the main theme of freedom.

While I support the schools right, as a private institution, to ban anything they like, I think they are missing the vital message in this anthem.

massrighty on August 26, 2011 at 6:08 PM

How stupid can you get? Ever meet anybody who graduated from this institution of lower learning?

ultracon on August 26, 2011 at 6:10 PM

Way too much attention has been given to this already. They’re Mennonites, extremely pacifist, and they’re free to do as they see fit for themselves within the boundaries of our laws and constitution as are all of us. So, yes, to quote ninjapirate… Leave them alone.

FlatFoot on August 26, 2011 at 5:56 PM

You are absolutely correct, they are free to do as they please . . . and others are free to disagree with them and to criticize them if they desire. Whether or not you “leave them alone” is a matter of choice and conscience.

rplat on August 26, 2011 at 6:11 PM

Moronic. Simply moronic. Hope this school does not get federal funds.

Warner Todd Huston on August 26, 2011 at 5:40 PM

Because of this, Arne & Barack will probably give them more federal funds.

KS Rex on August 26, 2011 at 6:11 PM

HEY!

I have a great idea!

Since they were looking for a “replacement” song, how about THIS one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2-zzmCmMVI

Opposite Day on August 26, 2011 at 6:15 PM

Violence? Wait till they see what’s coming if those that love the nation don’t soon prevail and reverse our self-destructive course. They’ll have far mor violence to worry about than stirring music.

I thought that when Rossane Barr destroyed the anthem with the depravity so often found in the actions of the left.

Don L on August 26, 2011 at 6:15 PM

They are a private college, so it is within their rights to do this. But just because they have the right to do so doesn’t mean that they are wise nor exhibiting any moral vision in so doing.

Radical pacifists exist at the pleasure of those with the moral fortitude to defend the pacifists from those who would enslave them and do them ill. Seems a somewhat cowardly way to live, expecting others to fight your battles for you and then excoriating those same defenders of your liberty for violent.

AZfederalist on August 26, 2011 at 6:16 PM

They’re a private institution, they can do as they please.

obladioblada on August 26, 2011 at 6:16 PM

Private college, so they’re free to do it.

(Nominally) free country, so, I’m free to think it’s ridiculous.

I do wonder what happened to ‘evolve’ their thinking on this matter. It’s not as if the school opened last year. Why after all these years has the anthem suddenly become too violent? Did some ultra-violent raping and pillaging lyrics get added last year without me knowing?

As for the art teacher that equates playing the national anthem with blindly accepting anything the country does – I’m happy he’s teaching art and not logic or critical thinking.

JadeNYU on August 26, 2011 at 6:18 PM

If they do not like what this country stands for, including her flag, her anthem and her history, then they are welcome to leave.

Are they free to say it? Yes, but if they are so against everything core about this place, they ought to find a place where their beliefs are more aligned.

knob on August 26, 2011 at 6:20 PM

Haven’t met an “anti-violence” person yet who didn’t either 1) become violent or 2) justify others’ violence when his or her world view has been substantially challenged. Pledges of non-violence simply means they haven’t been tested yet.

(Raise your hand if you’ve asked yourself a time or two: What will I do when the sh!t hits the fan and self-righteous folks like this come to my gun-owning door and say, “Save me, please”?)

Rational Thought on August 26, 2011 at 6:20 PM

I’m not buying any of their furniture.

keep the change on August 26, 2011 at 5:44 PM

Me too! And I’m going to stop eating Mementos!

Rod on August 26, 2011 at 6:21 PM

Hope this school does not get federal funds.

Warner Todd Huston on August 26, 2011 at 5:40 PM

Since it’s a Mennonite school, you can be sure they don’t.

NoNails on August 26, 2011 at 6:22 PM

“…an anthem that recalls a portion of the War of 1812 when the US homeland was under direct attack, and the author of said anthem wonders if the enemy will succeed.”

GarandFan on August 26, 2011 at 5:45 PM

That’s something that had completely skipped my memory whenever I hear whining about the lyrics of the Star Spangled Banner. The only “violence” mentioned in the song, is from an enemy, on our shores, against us. I guess they are sickened by the thought that our flag survived that night.

And my personal opinion about the Mennonites; they’re no better than anyone else just because they refuse to fight for a just cause.

TugboatPhil on August 26, 2011 at 6:25 PM

Haven’t met an “anti-violence” person yet who didn’t either 1) become violent or 2) justify others’ violence when his or her world view has been substantially challenged. Pledges of non-violence simply means they haven’t been tested yet.

(Raise your hand if you’ve asked yourself a time or two: What will I do when the sh!t hits the fan and self-righteous folks like this come to my gun-owning door and say, “Save me, please”?)

Rational Thought on August 26, 2011 at 6:20 PM

You obviously don’t know much about devout Mennonites. In time of tragedy, they will be the first to offer their help, but they will never ask for help from outside the Church.

NoNails on August 26, 2011 at 6:26 PM

HEY!

I have a great idea!

Since they were looking for a “replacement” song, how about THIS one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2-zzmCmMVI

Opposite Day on August 26, 2011 at 6:15 PM

I was thinking something a bit more like this. complete with graphics.

/Yeah, there are better quality audios of this, but I like the video with this one

AZfederalist on August 26, 2011 at 6:26 PM

massrighty on August 26, 2011 at 6:08 PM

The third stanza is a blight on our national history, not completely washed away until the passage of the Reconstruction Amendments.

I never sing the third stanza. That’s for Confederates.

As for the wordless version — it’s the Anacreonic — a well known British drinking song. Drinking is discouraged in Mennonite communities (except during the rumspringa).

unclesmrgol on August 26, 2011 at 6:27 PM

Govt malfeasance abounds, much of it directly tied to Obama’s / Holder’s Dept of Social Justice. Yet you’re covering this sort of fluff?

rayra on August 26, 2011 at 6:28 PM

Pacifism is parasitical.

It can only flourish as long as OTHER PEOPLE are willing to fight to protect the pacifist.

Mennonites contribute nothing to society except for the occasional pie.

ConservativeTalkRadio on August 26, 2011 at 6:30 PM

You obviously don’t know much about devout Mennonites. In time of tragedy, they will be the first to offer their help, but they will never ask for help from outside the Church.

NoNails on August 26, 2011 at 6:26 PM

The Mennonites and Hitler.

The implications are that the Mennonites tacitly endorsed Hitler’s use of violence to reunify their homeland.

unclesmrgol on August 26, 2011 at 6:32 PM

They’re Mennonites… leave them alone…

ninjapirate

Well, yes, I suppose you’re right, it was probably the intention of Goshen College all along to engage in a very public protest, use incendiary political rhetoric, and a impose a controversial, but completely legal ban solely for the purpose of getting us to leave them alone. Got it.

Knott Buyinit on August 26, 2011 at 6:33 PM

I am free not to accept a diploma from a Goshen College graduate. Their suppliers are free to not do business with them. I suggest people exercise their rights.

meci on August 26, 2011 at 6:33 PM

Fine. Then the US military or National Guard should never defend them.

csdeven on August 26, 2011 at 6:41 PM

Mennonites contribute nothing to society except for the occasional pie.

ConservativeTalkRadio on August 26, 2011 at 6:30 PM

Well, they farm — that’s contributing! And the Mennonites in Mexico also make cheese.

But the larger point about pacifists “freeloading” on non-pacifists’ willingness to defend them still stands.

Mary in LA on August 26, 2011 at 6:41 PM

The third stanza is a blight on our national history, not completely washed away until the passage of the Reconstruction Amendments.

I never sing the third stanza. That’s for Confederates.

I always interpreted this;

No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight, or the gloom of the grave:

to refered to the British habit of using mercenaries and impressed naval deckhands (the original cannon fodder) to do their close-in fighting.

Don’t see it as relating to FS Key’s view of the battle.

massrighty on August 26, 2011 at 6:43 PM

Govt malfeasance abounds, much of it directly tied to Obama’s / Holder’s Dept of Social Justice. Yet you’re covering this sort of fluff?

rayra on August 26, 2011 at 6:28 PM

Aw, c’mon, rayra, it’s Friday afternoon… we got plenty of meaty postings all week, we can chew on a little fluff now. :-)

Mary in LA on August 26, 2011 at 6:43 PM

…the British habit of using mercenaries and impressed naval deckhands (the original cannon fodder) to do their close-in fighting.

Don’t see it as relating to FS Key’s view of the battle.

massrighty on August 26, 2011 at 6:43 PM

Yes, I think you’re right. The use of the word “slave” here doesn’t refer to the plantation slaves, who weren’t (so far as I know) directly involved in the fighting, but to the British hired mercenaries.

Unclesmrgol, you’re right, too, that slavery was a blight on our Republic. Every time some leftie tries to throw that in our face, though, I think it’s important to remember that this country repudiated slavery emphatically, at a cost in blood larger in proportion to our population than any war we’ve fought before or since. Compare that to countries beloved of lefties that still practice slavery today.

Mary in LA on August 26, 2011 at 6:50 PM

War is hell, and yes…violent.

If not for that violence, there would be no freedom of religion, and no mennonites. To bad they can’t think that far ahead. Ungrateful #$%&^%!#^

capejasmine on August 26, 2011 at 6:50 PM

Here’s a good replacement.

The Warrior Song.

booya

ted c on August 26, 2011 at 6:54 PM

In every road game they have, the hosts should play/sing the anthem twice, to make up for the times that Goshen doesn’t play it.

Ha We on August 26, 2011 at 7:11 PM

Is this the first reference to Stravinsky ever in HotAir?

Attila (Pillage Idiot) on August 26, 2011 at 7:17 PM

There are many types of Mennonites, just like there are many types of Baptists.

But a few years ago I read an article that said that Mennonites are drug smugglers, indeed, they may be the greatest source of pot in Canada, and are rarely stopped at the border because they’re, well, Mennonite.

Johnny 100 Pesos on August 26, 2011 at 7:20 PM

I could have ignored it and not thought much of it….until I read that they banned the Music WithOUT the lyrics as well.

That’s freakin’ hilarious.
The itsy bitsy spider would probably be too violent for them.

This is a place for higher learning. For education, isn’t it? Or do they tell you right there on the first day that what you are actually there for is to be brainwashed? yeah, I said it.

bridgetown on August 26, 2011 at 7:21 PM

Tina – awesome Stravinksy / Rite of Spring reference! (You’re my hero)

diesirae on August 26, 2011 at 7:24 PM

I guess those British drinking songs can get kind of rowdy.

<blockquote

>…the British habit of using mercenaries and impressed naval deckhands (the original cannon fodder) to do their close-in fighting.

Don’t see it as relating to FS Key’s view of the battle.

massrighty on August 26, 2011 at 6:43 PM

Yes, I think you’re right. The use of the word “slave” here doesn’t refer to the plantation slaves, who weren’t (so far as I know) directly involved in the fighting, but to the British hired mercenaries.

Mary in LA on August 26, 2011 at 6:50 PM
I thought it was in reference to slaves who had been promised freedom if they fought for the British.

malclave on August 26, 2011 at 7:26 PM

Goshen College in Indiana…the Mennonite school…

…I invite you all to join me in musing:

1) How much of it is a matter of Mennonites being Mennonites (pacifist, “plain”, “off-the-grid”, God before state), and how much of this bilge is fashionable lefty-ism?

2) What proportion of the student body (and, for that matter, faculty) is actually Mennonite, and how many are mere lefties going to a Mennonite institution the same way they’d go to a self-professed Quaker or Amish institution?

3) For that matter, there are Mennonites and then there are Mennonites…just as there are Amish and then there are Amish…there are pacifists and then there are those who simply feel that their nation is a heaping pus-oozing pile of imperialist garbage, bestriding history like a blood-thristy colossus…get my drift?

4) While these folks are free in a free nation (a freedom I hope that they can appreciate, given their fastidiousness and evident distaste for their nation’s “violent” national music) have every right to their views, I wonder if they receive federal dollars…and if we can then, as a nation, justify supporting an institution which must be, one might be excused for assuming, indoctrinating its students with values at odds with life in our civil society.

5) Aren’t we getting close to a saturation point with “holier-than-thou-ism”?

I remember that, a few years ago, a clergyman in the UK refused the wish of a couple wishing to marry in his church to feature the hymn “Jerusalem” in their ceremony (a common feature of British weddings once upon a time). He thought it too “nationalistic”. That from what is in effect a civil servant.

It’s this childish sort of “you ain’t the boss of me” insistance on exempting oneself from the national norm and easily digested modes of conduct that test tolerance in this country…and, since the ’60′s, when the “Church of Me” began to spring up everwhere, with people putting their wants and causes at the center of everything, we’ve been suffering from a creeping case of “tolerance fatigue”….

…in the end, I don’t know that it will be those who react who’ll be at fault ultimately…reaction to being constantly forced to accept the smarminess of others may manifest itself one day as a snapped “Oh, yeah?” followed by a quick rap on the snout.

…especially, as in the Age of Obama, where one side of the equation isn’t permitted tolerance…after all, we’re now told that folks who support Tea Party values are “the real enemy”…..

Puritan1648 on August 26, 2011 at 7:35 PM

I thought it was in reference to slaves who had been promised freedom if they fought for the British.

malclave on August 26, 2011 at 7:26 PM

Me too. And it’s more than just a thought.

Slave behavior during the War of 1812, with a particular emphasis on the Chesapeake Bay area:
http://www.jstor.org/pss/2717218

unclesmrgol on August 26, 2011 at 7:39 PM

Oh great ! Commie Mennonites!

MCGIRV on August 26, 2011 at 7:44 PM

Me too. And it’s more than just a thought.

Slave behavior during the War of 1812, with a particular emphasis on the Chesapeake Bay area:
http://www.jstor.org/pss/2717218

unclesmrgol on August 26, 2011 at 7:39 PM

I wasn’t being argumentative, and there’s room in the lyrics for both interpretations. If yours is the correct interpretation, I’m not sure it makes me rever the whole poem/song less.

massrighty on August 26, 2011 at 7:48 PM

Let’s face it.

The ban isn’t anti-violence.

The ban is anti-American.

blink on August 26, 2011 at 6:03 PM

…I’d have to agree…after all, if anything, only the lyrics by Mr. Key could ever be considered violent. Why ban the tune?

The actual tune isn’t even, strictly speaking, American. Mr. Key didn’t even mate his poem up with the tune. That was done by his brother-in-law, Judge Joseph H. Nicholson. Can’t trust them brothers-in-law….

The tune, newly bannned, was orginally that of “To Anacreon in Heaven”, and 18th century British (irony?) ditty, described as “the official song of the Anacreontic Society, an 18th-century gentlemen’s club of amateur musicians in London”. What do these Mennonites have against Britain?

Maybe that “To Anacreon” has been called a “drinking song”…and our button-shunning brethren (obscure Amish subreference) are all teetotalers? It isn’t a drinking song, per se, but it has been described thus:

The song was commonly used as a sobriety test: If you could sing a stanza of the notoriously difficult melody and stay on key, you were sober enough for another round. — Wikipedia

…that citation has dubious provenance, but I’ve heard it more than once, in more than one place, so maybe it’s true.

So, why ban the tune? Only, I’d wager, to sweep any mention of America off campus.

Puritan1648 on August 26, 2011 at 7:49 PM

Seriously, dude… where the hell is my country?!?!!?!

ToddonCapeCod on August 26, 2011 at 7:50 PM

malclave on August 26, 2011 at 7:26 PM

Slave behavior during the War of 1812, with a particular emphasis on the Chesapeake Bay area:
http://www.jstor.org/pss/2717218

unclesmrgol on August 26, 2011 at 7:39 PM

Thank you both for edumacating me! :-) I didn’t know about that bit of history.

Mary in LA on August 26, 2011 at 8:04 PM

As ignernt as I am, I do at least know how to find the original lyrics to “To Anacreon in Heaven”. Here they are! I think they’re supposed to be kinda risqué in that Latinate Age-of-Enlightenment way. Maybe the Mennonites are objecting to that?

/nah, prob’ly not…

Mary in LA on August 26, 2011 at 8:09 PM

I’m hoping folks will play the Star Spangled Banner loudly that day, too

consider it done

cmsinaz on August 26, 2011 at 8:13 PM

All free men remember that in the final choice a soldier’s pack is not so heavy a burden as a prisoner’s chains.

Dwight D. Eisenhower

Speakup on August 26, 2011 at 8:13 PM

I wasn’t being argumentative, and there’s room in the lyrics for both interpretations. If yours is the correct interpretation, I’m not sure it makes me rever the whole poem/song less.

massrighty on August 26, 2011 at 7:48 PM

I’m merely buttressing my argument (I view argument in the debating context) by pointing out that Baltimore and its environs suffered greatly by slave defections — with many enlisting into the military service of the British.

The Black Refugees:
http://www.gov.ns.ca/nsarm/virtual/africanns/results.asp?Search=&SearchList1=4&Language=English

Somewhere there’s a longer article I’m looking for. The Black Refugees were the lucky ones — they reached Canada and freedom. Others made it to London. But they are only a third of the total defectors — the others were re-enslaved by the British and sent to the Caribbean at the end of their service.

unclesmrgol on August 26, 2011 at 8:19 PM

Pacifists aren’t just moral free riders, those who actively fight against the good fight in aid of evil.

Merovign on August 26, 2011 at 8:56 PM

Also, even a “pacifist” *educational* institution should not avoid an accurate accounting of history, even the parts they don’t like.

I’m not saying they should all be made to join ROTC, that would be brutally wrong. But they need to recognize where they are and why they’re there.

Merovign on August 26, 2011 at 9:00 PM

Pacifists aren’t just moral free riders, those who actively fight against the good fight in aid of evil.

I feel the same way about people who sneer at the Crusades. One look at life in the Middle East should tell them what horrors they were spared by that sacrifice. Ideas matter. Sometimes it takes blood to defend them.

StubbleSpark on August 26, 2011 at 9:07 PM

They must not have heard about the election of the Annointed One, who will undo the evils of GWB by closing GITMO, repealing the Patriot Act, withdrawing from Iraq, withdrawing from Afghanistan, ending tax cuts for the wealthy, de-politicizing the DOJ, not engaging in new military interventions… okay they may have a point.

drunyan8315 on August 26, 2011 at 9:12 PM

unclesmrgol on August 26, 2011 at 8:19 PM

Okay; in the sense of the word as you used it, I was being argumentative.

I should have said I wasn’t being combative.

And, the broader reading, from the links you’ve offered, do argue well for your interpretation.

Still.

It’s a very moving poem.

massrighty on August 26, 2011 at 9:32 PM

They were going to use God Bless America but that has changed.
Here’s the song that will be played during Goshens games.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzSVOcgKq04

centre on August 26, 2011 at 9:51 PM

Actually, strict pacifism, wherein no hand is raised to defend, is workable, so long as they are truly willing to die rather than defend. I believe the Mennonites are so willing. I can’t imagine why anyone has a problem with this. It isn’t as if they are asking us to defend them, after all. That would make them parasites, and they surely are not that.

tcn on August 26, 2011 at 11:34 PM

Liberalism is a mental disorder. These people are insane.

nazo311 on August 26, 2011 at 11:39 PM

I’m not buying any of their furniture.

keep the change on August 26, 2011 at 5:44 PM

Me too! And I’m going to stop eating Mementos!

Rod on August 26, 2011 at 6:21 PM

Its just … there’s this bookcase (really) I’ve had my eye on for like 10 years; its $1000, and its perfect … I always told myself I could have it at a particular point …

damn, this is a a sore trial.

Axe on August 27, 2011 at 1:58 AM

Since they were looking for a “replacement” song, how about THIS one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2-zzmCmMVI

Opposite Day on August 26, 2011 at 6:15 PM

Here’s a good replacement.

The Warrior Song.

booya

ted c on August 26, 2011 at 6:54 PM

Bleh. Lets just hang it till tomorrow and get along overnight.

Axe on August 27, 2011 at 2:05 AM

I can’t imagine why anyone has a problem with this.

Why? Because there are innocent people — even in the Mennonite community (i.e. children) who can’t decide for themselves whether or not they’re willing to die for their pacifist beliefs. While I believe in parental rights — including the right to raise your children according to your lights — there is a line. Embracing the fact you’d rather let your children die than fight against an aggressor bothers me. I do have an inherent problem with people who’ll let themselves and others be killed by violent forces simply so they can say they’re pacifists. I have a right to be bothered by this and say why.

Note here that I’m not advocating government force them to change their beliefs or even take away their children, which means I respect their freedoms even if I don’t respect their choices.

Pacifism is an unreal ideology that views life as just as meaningless and as disdainfully as a radically violent ideology does.

I believe people have a moral obligation to defend themselves, and others, from unjust violent aggressors — using force (and deadly force) when necessary.

englishqueen01 on August 27, 2011 at 6:55 AM

Goshen College 1700 South Main Street, Goshen, Indiana 46526 • Toll free: 1 (800) 348-7422 • Local: (574) 535-7000 • E-mail: info@goshen.edu

They got some choice words from me…

Keemo on August 27, 2011 at 8:51 AM

I’ll wager the “school fight song” is more violent than an anthem that recalls a portion of the War of 1812 when the US homeland was under direct attack, and the author of said anthem wonders if the enemy will succeed.

GarandFan on August 26, 2011 at 5:45 PM

I take it the concert band/orchestra stays away from this particular arrangement of the 1812 Overture?

http://www2.concordmusicgroup.com/albums/Tchaikovsky-1812-Overture/

MNHawk on August 27, 2011 at 8:55 AM

This is how people places and things that nobody ever heard of get noticed. When this has faded, and it will, Goshen will be hosting gay weddings or something else controversial. count on it.

abcurtis on August 27, 2011 at 10:13 AM

Did they ban Death Metal in the dorms too?

Akzed on August 27, 2011 at 10:51 AM

No football at that college. No hardball, only softball

The college has a big diversity mission

NBC Sports’ Rick Chandler weighed in, saying: “I suppose we could have followed the example of the Mennonites and simply fled, giving the nation back to the British. But then we’d all be playing cricket.”

Who could say it better. There are those who fight and those who wait for the dust to clear

Just hope these folk aren’t snitches if we ever get conquered

entagor on August 27, 2011 at 11:44 AM

Comment pages: 1 2