Group of psychiatrists wants to redefine pedophilia to promote tolerance

posted at 5:25 pm on August 24, 2011 by Tina Korbe

When I wrote about an objectionable spread of photographs in Paris Vogue – a spread that featured 10-year-old fashion model Thylane Blondeau styled in provocative ways — I fretted that such a magazine feature might, in some way, normalize the concept of sexual attraction to minors:

It’s often said, but bears repeating, that the TV, magazine and advertising images we absorb train our minds as to what is considered attractive — and, yes, specifically sexually attractive — in our culture. So, what does a magazine feature like this say? That it’s OK, even encouraged, to look at a child in a sexual way. …

But it’s adamantly not OK to look at a child in a sexual way, as harsh laws against pedophilia and child pornography attest. Maybe it seems like a leap of logic to move from provocative pictures to pornography and pedophilia, but again, images train the mind’s eye. The more readers and viewers see children in adult poses and in adult clothes, the less jarring it will be to those readers and viewers to see children in adult roles. It’s all highly inappropriate — and in territory better avoided entirely.

What’s crazy is, at the time, I thought we were still years away from any sane person seriously suggesting such a distorted disposition of attraction to minors — i.e. pedophilia — should be repackaged as less a problem and more a disorder to be understood and, yes, tolerated. But one group of psychologists is calling for such a redefinition even now. Megyn Kelly and Shannon Bream were just talking about this appalling push on “America Live.”

B4U-Act is a 501(c)(3) organization in Maryland that was established “to publicly promote services and resources for self-identified individuals (adults and adolescents) who are sexually attracted to children and seek such assistance, to educate mental health providers regarding the approaches helpful for such individuals, to develop a pool of providers in Maryland who agree to serve these individuals and abide by B4U-ACT’s Principles and Perspectives of Practice, and to educate the citizens of Maryland regarding issues faced by these individuals,” according to the group’s website.

Perhaps that sounds innocent enough (although I don’t think so). Let’s give them the benefit of the doubt for a second: What’s wrong with psychiatrists seeking to help those attracted to children better understand why they have that tendency? Perhaps those psychiatrists could even be an instrument of crime prevention or of after-the-fact justice. But no. Consider: At least one psychiatrist in the bunch has been known to treat child molesters without reporting them, Bream said.

Last week, the group hosted a scientific symposium to discuss a proposed new definition of pedophilia in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM) of the American Psychiatric Association. Presenters expressed a wide range of views — but the thrust of the B4U-Act movement appears to be, ultimately, to decriminalize pedophilia, Bream said.

As all too often happens with any kind of push for political correctness, with a twist of language, the blameless are forgotten. Let’s remember whom both the social stigma against “minor-attracted persons” and the outlawing of sexual activity between an adult and a minor aim to protect. Yes, I’m talking about children, whose innocence deserves to be preserved, whose minds and bodies haven’t fully developed yet, who depend upon adults for their moral formation. Advocacy on this issue must be on behalf of those who cannot advocate for themselves — not on behalf of those who, however troubled and however tempted, still bear ultimate responsibility for their actions.

Update: At least one reader wondered my justification for the assertion that the B4U-Act movement appears to be headed in the direction of pushing to decriminalize pedophilia. According to Shannon Bream’s report on Fox News, some — although not all — of the presenters at the symposium expressed the view that some level of sexual activity between adults and children should be permissible. That sounds like the decriminalization of pedophilia to me.

Update: B4U-Act is not alone in the effort to normalize pedophilia. Big Hollywood’s John Nolte has reported on the entertainment industry’s attempt to glamorize sex with children, as well.

Update: Here’s the video from the “America Live” segment that tipped me off:


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JetBoy on August 24, 2011 at 6:52 PM

lol, how long does it take you to reduce the discussion to the “latent” dodge? Classic!

You offer no comment except to reduce those commenting to characitures. I’ve asked some reasonable questions. Have not on this or any other thread offered words of hate towards your community, but you can’t seem to help yourself. One of your supporters stated in no uncertian terms they wanted some harm to come to me. Why does the discussion have to end up like this?

hawkdriver on August 24, 2011 at 6:58 PM

Pablo Honey on August 24, 2011 at 6:56 PM

Are pedophiles born that way?

catmman on August 24, 2011 at 6:58 PM

I counsel victims of pedophilia and experienced being attacked first hand as a child. The man who tried to molest me was in a relationship with another man and went on to have relationships with older teens since he was a well known athlete and had a fresh source of victims. Someone would say that his being Gay had nothing to do with me since I was ten, but how about the twelve, sixteen and forty-plus men he was fondling? It’s all homosexuality, unless now that term is going to be twisted.

People that I have counseled, all molested by men and most of them are male that have taken the time to track their attackers report those men are in Gay relationships. The women I have counseled were molested by married men. I see a pattern, but I’m not trying to separate the facts that relate homosexual peds victimizing same sex children. This nonsense that craving sex with children is not sex is absurd. I guess we should take the word of men having sex with children that just because they want to fondle their penis doesn’t make them gay.

Hening on August 24, 2011 at 6:58 PM

Show where my question of Vyce advocated for anything.
blink on August 24, 2011 at 6:55 PM

You said opponents of “consensual” pedophilia were haters, and tried to conscript Vyce to your ranks.

The thing is, the reason it’s illegal is because children cannot give consent to sex. It’s always rape. Simple enough?

Akzed on August 24, 2011 at 6:59 PM

“I like girls. And they seem to like me” — Roman Polanski, gifted movie director, philosopher, and child rapist (not that there’s anything wrong with THAT)

Paul-Cincy on August 24, 2011 at 6:16 PM

Jeez! Stop that! Whatshername established that it wasn’t rape-rape.

Gang-of-One on August 24, 2011 at 6:59 PM

I guess all the conservatives on HA are liberals, and versa vice! JetBoy’s a closet straight guy!

Akzed on August 24, 2011 at 7:01 PM

This thread is going down a slippery slope, or something.

Eff it, they’re racing over at Bristol.

hillbillyjim on August 24, 2011 at 7:02 PM

Jetboy,

You’re not this dumb are you? Nobody is saying gay = pedo And nobody is saying gay marriage = pedophilia or any of the other nonsense you think people are saying.

What people are saying is that the same arguments for gay marriage – civil rights, lifetsyle choice, love is love, you’re born this way so you should be able to enjoy life, etc – can be applied to pedophilia.

Why can’t a 27 year old man marry a 12 year old? Doesn’t the man have the right to love whom he wants? Doesn’t the man have the right to live a lifestyle he wants? Who is society to tell him it’s wrong? Why are you a H8ER?

You can take all the propaganda for gay marriage, cut and pase the words gay /pedophile and it’s the coming propaganda for pedophile marriage.

In 2026 there will be a ballot measure in CA saying nobody under the age of 12 is allowed to have sex with anyone over the age of 18. And anyone who dares support this will be labeled a radical, racist. COUNT IT!

angryed on August 24, 2011 at 7:02 PM

Pedophilia is a crime – for now. Homosexuality was a crime until just a few years ago.

You honestly don’t see any similarities (not in the act itself, but in the maneuvering for ‘acceptance/tolerance’)?

catmman on August 24, 2011 at 6:53 PM

Drinking booze on Sundays was ONCE a crime…practicing witchcraft was ONCE a crime…etc etc etc etc the list can go on…

So you would have been against outlawing slavery then, since accepting blacks as equals was simply a maneuver for tolerance? And hey, it would only lead to other minorities wanting acceptance, so it should never have been done.

Cripes, think a little.

JetBoy on August 24, 2011 at 7:03 PM

Pablo Honey on August 24, 2011 at 6:56 PM

Are pedophiles born that way?

catmman on August 24, 2011 at 6:58 PM

The $64,000 question that homosexuals are terrified to answer.

whatcat on August 24, 2011 at 7:03 PM

What people are saying is that the same arguments for gay marriage – civil rights, lifetsyle choice, love is love, you’re born this way so you should be able to enjoy life, etc – can be applied to pedophilia.

It could be applied to a piano prodigy too.

So?

Because gays want civil/equal rights, and there are other “groups” if you will that want them too, gays shouldn’t get those rights because the others will want them too? Again, a very weak argument. It’s the kind of thing a parent tells their kids…”No, if I let you get a candy bar, your sister will want one too.”

JetBoy on August 24, 2011 at 7:05 PM

Have you ever heard a pedophile recollect the day they chose to be a pedophile?
blink on August 24, 2011 at 7:03 PM

I suspect a few shoe-sex fetishists might recall their first shoe infatuation…..

whatcat on August 24, 2011 at 7:05 PM

bridgetown on August 24, 2011 at 6:37 PM

bt, I’m actually heading out, but I wondered if you’d read my comment back to you. If you did, I take it you think I was reading that portion of the comment I posted out of context? What do you think he meants in the portions I highlighted?

Gays on the whole do not advocate for lowering the age of consent, which is in it’s own right a strange and uneven concept even in our country, and has no biblical or religious constraint or guide.

I read the rest of his comment and agree, it would seem he is clearly trying to assert the two acts are separate. But what I reposted here just seems so out of place with the rest of his comments. Again, I sort of struggled to understand what it meant in the middle of his comment. Sort of like when you say something loud at a party just when everyone got quiet?

hawkdriver on August 24, 2011 at 6:47 PM

I see the page rolled over, bt. Anyway like I said, I wonder what you take was on his comment.

hawkdriver on August 24, 2011 at 7:07 PM

They will follow Alinsky on this until issue you are a hater

Alinsky taught that in order to most effectively cast themselves as defenders of moral principals and human decency, organizers must react with “shock, horror, and moral outrage” whenever their targeted enemy in any way misspeaks or fails to live up to his “book of rules.”

Moreover, said Alinsky, whenever possible the organizer must deride his enemy and dismiss him as someone unworthy of being taken seriously because he is either intellectually deficient or morally bankrupt. “The enemy properly goaded and guided in his reaction will be your major strength,” said Alinsky.

He advised organizers to “laugh at the enemy” in an effort to provoke “an irrational anger.”

faraway on August 24, 2011 at 7:07 PM

The $64,000 question that homosexuals are terrified to answer.

whatcat on August 24, 2011 at 7:03 PM

Who’s afraid to answer that?

I don’t know if pedos are born that way…I guess it’s possible, but since I’m not a pedo, I don’t know. Still, I eagerly await an answer to…What do pedos have to do with gays?

JetBoy on August 24, 2011 at 7:08 PM

Because gays want civil/equal rights, and there are other “groups” if you will that want them too, gays shouldn’t get those rights because the others will want them too?
JetBoy on August 24, 2011 at 7:05 PM

The question is since other groups demand the same “civil rights” as “gays”, how can “gays” deny them those rights solely based on their sexual orientations? Gander, goose.

whatcat on August 24, 2011 at 7:09 PM

Pedophiles are born that way … Right?

tarpon on August 24, 2011 at 7:10 PM

Last week, the group hosted a scientific symposium to discuss a proposed new definition of pedophilia in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM)

The DSM serves primarily as a compendium of billing codes for the use of “psychotherapists” to get paid. It is about as authoritative as the National Enquirer. Well, maybe not that authoritative, but you know what I mean.

Mason on August 24, 2011 at 7:10 PM

What do pedos have to do with gays?
JetBoy on August 24, 2011 at 7:08 PM

As noted repeatedly here and on umpteen previous posts, the same arguments apply. You pretend you don’t see things.

Akzed on August 24, 2011 at 7:11 PM

What do pedos have to do with gays?

JetBoy on August 24, 2011 at 7:08 PM

I can play this game. What does gay have to with marriage?

faraway on August 24, 2011 at 7:12 PM

The $64,000 question that homosexuals are terrified to answer.
whatcat on August 24, 2011 at 7:03 PM

Who’s afraid to answer that?

I don’t know if pedos are born that way

You proved my assertion in trying to dodge the question. Try again.

(Oh, and don’t call them “pedos” – that’s pedophiliaphobic. Call them “Super Happy”.)

whatcat on August 24, 2011 at 7:13 PM

bridgetown on August 24, 2011 at 5:49 PM

There are homosexual pedophiles and there are heterosexual pedophiles. They are both subsets of larger groups. Homosexual pedophiles exist so get over it.

chemman on August 24, 2011 at 7:14 PM

Are you saying that you don’t hate pedophiles?
I asked Vyce a question. I didn’t try to conscript him into anything. blink on August 24, 2011 at 7:09 PM

How about you, Vyce? You seem to take a strong stand against the haters. Do you agree that it’s wrong to hate someone simply because they’re looking for a consensual relationship with a post-adolescent teen? blink on August 24, 2011 at 6:38 PM

One has to be able to lie to himself to believe certain things.

Akzed on August 24, 2011 at 7:14 PM

Don’t ever let these evil ba$tard$ win.

The Pedophile Witch

Connie on August 24, 2011 at 7:14 PM

Still, I eagerly await an answer to…What do pedos have to do with gays?

JetBoy on August 24, 2011 at 7:08 PM

I’m gonna have to go with “What is considered aberrant sexual behavior? for $500 Alex.”

Tim Zank on August 24, 2011 at 7:17 PM

Don’t ever let these evil ba$tard$ win.

The Pedophile Witch

Connie on August 24, 2011 at 7:14 PM

I cannot believe that people think that way. Hard article to read.

hawkdriver on August 24, 2011 at 7:17 PM

The thing is, the reason it’s illegal is because children cannot give consent to sex. It’s always rape. Simple enough?

It’s not simple at all. Age of consent is at the discretion of law makers. Didn’t you read the comment about the age of consent in Canada?
blink on August 24, 2011 at 7:09 PM

Yup. And in other parts of the world “child brides” are accepted. If some 3rd world hellhole thinks it’s okay for a 7 year old girl to be “married off” (i.e. raped) to a 50 year old sleazebag then it’s okay because the local law says it is?

whatcat on August 24, 2011 at 7:17 PM

As noted repeatedly here and on umpteen previous posts, the same arguments apply. You pretend you don’t see things.

Akzed on August 24, 2011 at 7:11 PM

Were you born straight? Then the same argument applies to you as well.

Later boyz and gals. Can’t do this anymore tonight. Cheers

JetBoy on August 24, 2011 at 7:18 PM

JetBoy on August 24, 2011 at 7:08 PM

Are gays born gay?

CW on August 24, 2011 at 7:19 PM

Child molesters need to be executed not understood.

xplodeit on August 24, 2011 at 7:20 PM

JetBoy on August 24, 2011 at 7:03 PM

C’mon JB, I am thinking and your not answering the question.

Do you or do you not see that pedophiles are now using the same rationale gay rights activists did to gain/garner sympathy/acceptance/tolerance of their behavior/lifestyle?

I mean the website doesn’t even refer to pedos as pedos, they are “minor-actracted people”.

And this:

Our Values

Individuals who are sexually attracted to children are the focus of everything that we do. Compassionate assistance in dealing with the difficulties of living in society with an attraction to minors is essential to our success. Integrity is never compromised. Diversity is recognized and respected.

And this:

DEVELOPMENT. We understand that the attraction to children or adolescents is both sexual and emotional, and that individuals do not choose to have these feelings. People who are attracted to minors usually recognize their feelings in adolescence or young adulthood, and feel that they are very different from other persons.

And this:

6. STIGMA. We recognize the severe stigma directed against minor-attracted people by the media, politicians, law enforcement officials, and some mental health professionals. We oppose the perpetuation of false stereotypes and the use of language that instills fear in the public, fails to promote understanding, and ignores the humanity of minor-attracted people. We realize that stigma and stereotypes force minor-attracted people to remain in hiding and prevent those who could benefit from mental health services from receiving them. We do not believe this serves the interests of children, minor-attracted people, or society in general. Therefore, providers have an obligation within their profession and community to speak up and confront stereotype-perpetuating statements made by professional colleagues, family members, friends, and the media. Providers need to educate professionals and the larger community regarding persons sexually attracted to children or adolescents.

That stuff is from their website. None of that sounds familiar? Really?

Which side is refusing to open their eyes here?

catmman on August 24, 2011 at 7:20 PM

Were you born straight?
JetBoy on August 24, 2011 at 7:18 PM

Well not really. See Biology 101.

CW on August 24, 2011 at 7:21 PM

Who remembers being born? Just gay people?

faraway on August 24, 2011 at 7:21 PM

A study of 457 male sex offenders against children in Journal of Sex and Marital Therapy found that “approximately one-third of these sexual offenders directed their sexual activity against males.”

Kurt Freund, et al., “Pedophilia and Heterosexuality vs. Homosexuality,” Journal of Sex and Marital Therapy 10 (1984): 197. “The proportional prevalence of offenders against male children in this group of 457 offenders against children was 36 percent.” See also, Kurt Freund, et al., “Heterosexuality, Homosexuality, and Erotic Age Preference,” “Approximately one-third of these individuals had victimized boys and two-thirds had victimized girls. This finding is consistent with the proportions reported in two earlier studies,” p. 107.

What percentage of the population is gay males? Even if it’s 10%, which it isn’t, sodomists are vastly over represented among pedophiles.

But that’s a small part of the point. The point is that the same arguments are being enlisted to advance acceptance of pedophilia as for normalizing homosexuality. By the same people, or I should say the same kind of people.

Akzed on August 24, 2011 at 7:23 PM

Still, I eagerly await an answer to…What do pedos have to do with gays?
JetBoy on August 24, 2011 at 7:08 PM

I’m gonna have to go with “What is considered aberrant sexual behavior? for $500 Alex.”

Tim Zank on August 24, 2011 at 7:17 PM

Actually, Jetboy is trying to set up a strawman argument, intentionally trying to avoid addressing what people have actually noted here, which has to do with the consequences of normalization of sexual behavior.

whatcat on August 24, 2011 at 7:23 PM

JetBoy on August 24, 2011 at 7:18 PM

This, is why you’re not worthy of exchanging comments with anymore. You come here, throw around your insults and then run like a dog with your tail between your legs. You exhibit “exactly” what you rail against. Congrats.

hawkdriver on August 24, 2011 at 7:24 PM

I guess all the conservatives on HA are liberals, and versa vice! JetBoy’s a closet straight guy!

Akzed on August 24, 2011 at 7:01 PM

Aahh, I knew someone would globber that softball out of the park!

Gang-of-One on August 24, 2011 at 7:24 PM

I wanted to know if Vyce agreed with certain positions. That doesn’t mean that I agree with those positions. blink on August 24, 2011 at 7:17 PM

And those positions are held by haters, who are “simply” opposed to pedophilia.

Akzed on August 24, 2011 at 7:24 PM

MAKES PERFECT SENSE.

Our society has been eating it’s own (legally) since 1973 with Roe v. Wade.

Obamacare will put Granny and the afflicted in front of the death panels so that will take care of them.

And as we lunge towards Sodom and Gomorrah it would make perfect sense that we start robbing the innocent of……their innocence.

Only Hobbits and Tea Party Terrorists would disapprove.

PappyD61 on August 24, 2011 at 7:25 PM

Can they publish they names of the people involved in their organization so we can avoid these pathetic excuses for human beings?
Anyone who does anything to children that his harmful or sexual should receive the death penalty. Period end finish.

IlonaE on August 24, 2011 at 7:26 PM

JetBoy on August 24, 2011 at 7:08 PM

See my 7:17p answer. The fact that there are subsets of both the gay and heterosexual community is not an indictment of the whole. It is what it is.

chemman on August 24, 2011 at 7:27 PM

I guess all the conservatives on HA are liberals, and versa vice! JetBoy’s a closet straight guy!

Akzed on August 24, 2011 at 7:01 PM

Aahh, I knew someone would globber that softball out of the park!
Gang-of-One on August 24, 2011 at 7:24 PM

Place “latent heterosexual” pun here.

whatcat on August 24, 2011 at 7:27 PM

IlonaE on August 24, 2011 at 7:26 PM

Careful, those who want to protect kids are haters! I guess we hate car drivers if we are in favor if crossing guards.

Akzed on August 24, 2011 at 7:27 PM

No. They are not linked, any more than a heterosexual relationship is linked to pedophilia.
That’s simply a lie.

bridgetown on August 24, 2011 at 5:55 PM

Yeah, it’s a lie. That’s why such a high percentage of gay men were molested as young boys/teens. The NAMBLA crowd has been lobbying for years to lower the age of consent. The 1972 gay rights platform included eliminating all age of consent laws. I wonder why?

JannyMae on August 24, 2011 at 7:28 PM

This is a lengthy essay on the issue. I mention that because I know some will squawk that this is from Family Research Council, and I wanted to let you know there are 61 endnotes documenting statistics and statements.

The column includes statistics, history and culture.

Homosexuality and Child Sexual Abuse

· Homosexuals are overrepresented in child sex offenses: Individuals from the 1 to 3 percent of the population that is sexually attracted to the same sex are committing up to one-third of the sex crimes against children.

· Some homosexual activists defend the historic connection between homosexuality and pedophilia: Such activists consider the defense of “boy-lovers” to be a legitimate gay rights issue.

· Pedophile themes abound in homosexual literary culture: Gay fiction as well as serious academic treatises promote “intergenerational intimacy.”

INC on August 24, 2011 at 7:30 PM

No. They are not linked, any more than a heterosexual relationship is linked to pedophilia. That’s simply a lie. bridgetown on August 24, 2011 at 5:55 PM

A study of 457 male sex offenders against children in Journal of Sex and Marital Therapy found that “approximately one-third of these sexual offenders directed their sexual activity against males.”

Kurt Freund, et al., “Pedophilia and Heterosexuality vs. Homosexuality,” Journal of Sex and Marital Therapy 10 (1984): 197. “The proportional prevalence of offenders against male children in this group of 457 offenders against children was 36 percent.” See also, Kurt Freund, et al., “Heterosexuality, Homosexuality, and Erotic Age Preference,” “Approximately one-third of these individuals had victimized boys and two-thirds had victimized girls. This finding is consistent with the proportions reported in two earlier studies,” p. 107.

Akzed on August 24, 2011 at 7:31 PM

PappyD61 on August 24, 2011 at 7:25 PM

Is it really a surprise that Western Culture is returning to what used to be called the dark ages when children were considered to be just tiny adults to be used in all ways adults were. This is just one of the unintended consequences we are facing with the abandonment of Judeo-Christian morality. Obviously if the shift in beliefs by Western Culture reach a tipping point then all forms of sexuality will be in play.

chemman on August 24, 2011 at 7:31 PM

I guess we should take the word of men having sex with children that just because they want to fondle their penis doesn’t make them gay.

Hening on August 24, 2011 at 6:58 PM

You broached a real problem, there can be no real honest study, since every “study” that is made, has to go through a peer review before being published, and any accurate information that would tie pedophile to homosexuals will be edited out.
There isn’t a doctor alive that would risk his position to force an accurate and detailed study of what you “know”.

right2bright on August 24, 2011 at 7:31 PM

Sorry, that’s not 61 endnotes–it’s 76:

The steadfast denial of the disturbing ties with pedophilia within the homosexual movement is no purely academic matter. Perhaps the most tragic aspect of the homosexual-pedophile connection is the fact that men who sexually molest boys all too often lead their victims into homosexuality and pedophilia. The evidence indicates that a high percentage of homosexuals and pedophiles were themselves sexually abused as children:

· The Archives of Sexual Behavior reports: “One of the most salient findings of this study is that 46 percent of homosexual men and 22 percent of homosexual women reported having been molested by a person of the same gender. This contrasts to only 7 percent of heterosexual men and 1 percent of heterosexual women reporting having been molested by a person of the same gender.”[70]

· A study of 279 homosexual/bisexual men with AIDS and control patients discussed in the Journal of the American Medical Association reported: “More than half of both case and control patients reported a sexual act with a male by age 16 years, approximately 20 percent by age 10 years.”[71]

· Noted child sex abuse expert David Finkelhor found that “boys victimized by older men were over four times more likely to be currently engaged in homosexual activity than were non-victims. The finding applied to nearly half the boys who had had such an experience. . . . Further, the adolescents themselves often linked their homosexuality to their sexual victimization experiences.”[72]

· A study in the International Journal of Offender Therapy and Comparative Criminology found:”In the case of childhood sexual experiences prior to the age of fourteen, 40 percent (of the pedophile sample) reported that they had engaged ‘very often’ in sexual activity with an adult, with 28 percent stating that this type of activity had occurred ‘sometimes’”[73]

· A National Institute of Justice report states that “the odds that a childhood sexual abuse victim will be arrested as an adult for any sex crime is 4.7 times higher than for people . . . who experienced no victimization as children.”[74]

· A Child Abuse and Neglect study found that 59 percent of male child sex offenders had been “victim of contact sexual abuse as a child.”[75]

· The Journal of Child Psychiatry noted that “there is a tendency among boy victims to recapitulate their own victimization, only this time with themselves in the role of perpetrator and someone else the victim.”[76]

INC on August 24, 2011 at 7:32 PM

No. They are not linked, any more than a heterosexual relationship is linked to pedophilia.
That’s simply a lie.

bridgetown on August 24, 2011 at 5:55 PM

Yeah, it’s a lie. That’s why such a high percentage of gay men were molested as young boys/teens. The NAMBLA crowd has been lobbying for years to lower the age of consent. The 1972 gay rights platform included eliminating all age of consent laws. I wonder why?

JannyMae on August 24, 2011 at 7:28 PM

I have a male relative that was abused by a man as a child. Does it worry me that my male relative’s only child is a gay male? You bet the phuck it does.

CW on August 24, 2011 at 7:33 PM

This, is why you’re not worthy of exchanging comments with anymore. You come here, throw around your insults and then run like a dog with your tail between your legs. You exhibit “exactly” what you rail against. Congrats.

hawkdriver on August 24, 2011 at 7:24 PM

——————————————————————————————————

Well either that or he sincerely had to go.

CW on August 24, 2011 at 7:34 PM

Do you disagree that some people feel this way?
blink on August 24, 2011 at 7:32 PM

That some people hate pedophiles? Of course! Any sane society does, which is why we punish them.

But the political cussword “hater” is employed to end the argument, as in, “The Tea Party is a bunch of racist haters.”

You apparently believe that crossing guards hate automobile drivers.

Akzed on August 24, 2011 at 7:37 PM

Laws of mankind are always screwed up. E.g. a seventeen year old boy goes to prison for the Statutory Rape of his sixteen year old girlfriend.

Sex laws need to be corrected to reflect Natural Law, and puberty should be a major consideration in determining an age for natural sex, e.g. Puberty is the process of physical changes by which a child’s body becomes an adult body capable of reproduction.

Or, we could make it a law that girls can’t have sex until they are 65, and must wear burkas (full body type) before and after…though some males may require them to wear the burkas during sex (they are 65 year old girls after all).

Karmi on August 24, 2011 at 7:37 PM

Yes, it’s best for them to simply pretend that the argument being made is homosexual = pedophile.
I find it very interesting that not one of these commenters denounced pedophilia nor expressed understanding for someone with those sexual desires. They simply avoided the question. The most JetBoy would say was that it was criminal.
blink on August 24, 2011 at 7:30 PM

And the argument against pedophilic sex because “it’s against the law. It’s a crime” runs into a brick wall since homosexual sex was too, not very long ago.

whatcat on August 24, 2011 at 7:38 PM

“Jet Boy”,

Your quote:

“Oh, brother. Here we go with the usual suspects crying how accepting gays will lead to pedophiles demanding the same. Pedophilia is a crime, hurts children. Gay is not a crime, and is between two consenting adults. It’s like apples and oranges”

And mine:

If gays are “born that way” and their sexual preference is not “learned”, then the gay movement’s activists cannot deny the same rationale from a pedophile.

That being said, what does a gay person suggest one do with a “born” pedophile?

Treatment? Wouldn’t that be like trying to “treat” a gay person?

If both are “born” into a person, what then do we do?

Please answer my question.

Opposite Day on August 24, 2011 at 7:39 PM

Karmi on August 24, 2011 at 7:37 PM

In some states the laws have a sort of a sliding scale to account for this. The age of the minor plus X years is treated differently than the age of the minor plus Y years.

Akzed on August 24, 2011 at 7:39 PM

No, do you agree that some people consider anyone that hates pedophiles to be a hater. blink on August 24, 2011 at 7:39 PM

Yes, NAMBLA and their allies, including anyone promoting ending laws against child rape.

Akzed on August 24, 2011 at 7:41 PM

we could make it a law that girls can’t have sex until they are 65, and must wear burkas (full body type) before and after…though some males may require them to wear the burkas during sex (they are 65 year old girls after all).
Karmi on August 24, 2011 at 7:37 PM

STRAWMAN ALERT!!

But congratulations on winning the thread’s award for it.

whatcat on August 24, 2011 at 7:41 PM

First off, there’s no reason to think any of this conference’s output is actually going to be incorporated into the DSM-V.

Secondly, it’s quite wrong to assume that all those who experience pedophillic urges follow through by committing criminal acts of molestation, or in trafficking in or even simply possessing child pornography, any more than men who experience fantasies of rape go on to commit the actual crime of rape. Certainly all of these crimes fully warrant punishment under the law.

However, I’d submit a great many men (and even some women) who experienced molestation as children themselves (and there are a great many of those) go on to experience some form of pedophillic urges and fantasies as adults. Collectively demonizing the emergence of these purely mental phenomenon as if they were as socially contemptible as actual criminal acts only renders it less likely that those who experience the problem will seek out professional help. And the longer they go without seeking professional help, the more likely it is that they’ll eventually act on those urges–and then you have a new victim, and the continuation of the vicious cycle of abuse.

It’s certainly true that normally-adjusted humans consider child molestation horrific. It is. That’s why it might be worth considering doing what’s necessary to encourage those who recognize they’re at risk of victimizing others to get help. Recognizing the urges as a post-traumatic disorder, while still treating the related acts as crimes, certainly seems preferable to creating a social climate that excoriates those with dysfunctional thoughts before they become criminals. You want those people to know that their thoughts are just thoughts, albeit distorted, and will be treated as such if and when they seek help–which is something they most certainly should do.

(And, just to head off what I expect will be the inevitable criticisms, obviously organizations like NAMBLA, which would like both pedophilic fantasies and actual physical acts of victimization to be viewed as socially “acceptable,” as if they constituted some kind of weird ethnicity, or an alternative “lifestyle”, are extremely detrimental to the cause of advancing any form of mental well-being.)

Blacklake on August 24, 2011 at 7:42 PM

Karmi on August 24, 2011 at 7:37 PM

Until the Industrial Revolution that is exactly how it worked. We had to invent adolescence then to keep the competition of young males out of the workforce. Now we put off maturing until after college for nearly the same reasons (we don’t want to compete for jobs with young males and females).

chemman on August 24, 2011 at 7:42 PM

Congrats.

hawkdriver on August 24, 2011 at 7:24 PM

JetBoy is a Moby.

Plain and simple.

Why he has so many defenders here, is a mystery to me.

Rebar on August 24, 2011 at 7:42 PM

Karmi that was pretty lame

CW on August 24, 2011 at 7:45 PM

Blacklake on August 24, 2011 at 7:42 PM

I don’t think anyone here wants to criminalize thoughts.

Akzed on August 24, 2011 at 7:45 PM

It does appear though that Karmi is arguing for lower ages of consent and more understanding

CW on August 24, 2011 at 7:46 PM

CW on August 24, 2011 at 7:46 PM

A nineteen year-old dood with a seventeen year-old girlfriend is not the same as a forty year-old man trying to ply a nine year-old boy or girl into his car. I think we all agree on that.

Akzed on August 24, 2011 at 7:48 PM

The wife just got home. See yas!

Akzed on August 24, 2011 at 7:49 PM

FOX News: Push to Redefine Pedophilia?
http://video.foxnews.com/v/1127278818001/push-to-redefine-pedophilia/

StewartIII on August 24, 2011 at 7:49 PM

I don’t think anyone here wants to criminalize thoughts.

Akzed on August 24, 2011 at 7:45 PM

That’s not at all what I was talking about. If you’re sufficiently interested in what I write that you’re going to comment on it, please do us both the favor of actually reading it. Otherwise, you’re just making noise.

Blacklake on August 24, 2011 at 7:50 PM

When we said if they win on gay marrage they would try to make pedophilia acceptable they called us bigots.

Gwillie on August 24, 2011 at 7:54 PM

A nineteen year-old dood with a seventeen year-old girlfriend is not the same as a forty year-old man trying to ply a nine year-old boy or girl into his car. I think we all agree on that.

Akzed on August 24, 2011 at 7:48 PM

But what about a 24 year old and a 16 year old? You don’t think Karmi supports that? My bet is yes Karmi does.

CW on August 24, 2011 at 7:54 PM

Blacklake,

You are positing that pedophilia is the result of “something” happening to someone, like the trauma of molestation, etc.

But just take the word “pedophilia” out of your post and replace it with “homosexual” and one could put that forth as a posit.

That however is not the gay movement’s posit. They state that one is “born” gay. Using their posit, pedophiles are not the result of a trauma, but they are also “born” that way.

If so, how can one prevent them from using this as a rationale even for just their urges, not actions?

Opposite Day on August 24, 2011 at 7:57 PM

But what about a 24 year old and a 16 year old? You don’t think Karmi supports that? My bet is yes Karmi does.
CW on August 24, 2011 at 7:54 PM

Actually, Karmi was arguing based on the age of puberty, which is even more wrong since some girls hit puberty at age 6.

whatcat on August 24, 2011 at 7:58 PM

Pedophiles are born that way … Right?

tarpon on August 24, 2011 at 7:10 PM

So far as I know, virtually all pedophiles were themselves victims of pedophilia (or some related form of sexual abuse, such as child-on-child molestation) as children. As with addicts, wife-beaters or other types of serial abusers, this makes it worthwhile to note the vicious cycle involved, and to search for ways to break it. But it doesn’t absolve anyone of actual crimes they’ve committed.

Blacklake on August 24, 2011 at 8:01 PM

Actually, Karmi was arguing based on the age of puberty, which is even more wrong since some girls hit puberty at age 6.

whatcat on August 24, 2011 at 7:58 PM

Good point but I did say:

It does appear though that Karmi is arguing for lower ages of consent and more understanding

CW on August 24, 2011 at 8:01 PM

Pedophilia is a crime, hurts children. Gay is not a crime, and is between two consenting adults.

It’s like apples and oranges.

JetBoy on August 24, 2011 at 6:46 PM

I’m confused.

By this definition, adolescents are incapable of being gay. Doesn’t that kind of throw the “born this way” argument out, since nobody is gay until they are an adult?

Ridiculous, I know, but so is the attempt to 100% separate gays from the pedophile population. There are gay pedophiles, just as there are straight pedophiles.

malclave on August 24, 2011 at 8:04 PM

…That however is not the gay movement’s posit. They state that one is “born” gay. Using their posit, pedophiles are not the result of a trauma, but they are also “born” that way.

If so, how can one prevent them from using this as a rationale even for just their urges, not actions?

Opposite Day on August 24, 2011 at 7:57 PM

Who cares? The subject of this thread is pedophilia, not homosexuality. So far as I know, the “gay movement” posits nothing about pedophilia.

Blacklake on August 24, 2011 at 8:06 PM

So far as I know, virtually all pedophiles were themselves victims of pedophilia (or some related form of sexual abuse, such as child-on-child molestation) as children. As with addicts, wife-beaters or other types of serial abusers, this makes it worthwhile to note the vicious cycle involved, and to search for ways to break it. But it doesn’t absolve anyone of actual crimes they’ve committed.

Blacklake on August 24, 2011 at 8:01 PM

>>> Of course it doesn’t.

Interestingly enough there are plenty of gays that were victims of abuse. Were they gay before the abuse? Just asking.

CW on August 24, 2011 at 8:07 PM

Anyone think that this would have come out if we treated gays the way they should treated in society? It is only going to get worse, and at some point in time pedophilia will be forced down our throats like the gay lifestyle has been.

Social Conservatives 1, Social degenerates 0

astonerii on August 24, 2011 at 8:16 PM

Sex laws need to be corrected to reflect Natural Law, and puberty should be a major consideration in determining an age for natural sex, e.g. Puberty is the process of physical changes by which a child’s body becomes an adult body capable of reproduction.

Karmi on August 24, 2011 at 7:37 PM

Yes, very interesting opinion on the matter. So, you think puberty is fair game?

hawkdriver on August 24, 2011 at 8:16 PM

Pedophiles have been pushing for a measure of acceptance for years, primarily online, through social networking sites and sites such as YouTube, where they weld considerable clout as a kind of underground market demographic. Make no mistake: these depraved, child-raping monsters are well-organized, tightly coordinated, and well-led, and what they very badly want is to be viewed as a kind of adjunct to the gay rights movement. With that in mind, one of the most significant actions achieved by gay rights activists toward gaining wider societal acceptance was the removal of homosexuality as a disorder in the DSM.

While some pedophiles might fit the raincoat-wearing, stranger-with-candy stereotype, it is foolish to think of these genuinely evil men and women as stupid.

troyriser_gopftw on August 24, 2011 at 8:20 PM

Whether or not you agree with JetBoy’s stance on homosexuality, ganging up on him and throwing him in with the pedophiles is a bit unfair, a bit condescending, and a bit misguided.

Can’t we have an adult discussion here without flaming people who may not be just like us but who have commonsense ideas about politics and government?

No, I didn’t say throw open the door for pedophiles, so don’t play that tired tune.

I don’t for a minute think that JetBoy condones pedophilia. I get that some of you are so against homosexuality that you feel the need to attack, but what I don’t get is why.

hillbillyjim on August 24, 2011 at 8:21 PM

WTF?! I feel like I just woke up in an alternate universe. Time to investigate the trolls behind this “charity”… dollars for donuts they’re pedophiles.

redfoxbluestate on August 24, 2011 at 8:25 PM

It does appear though that Karmi is arguing for lower ages of consent and more understanding

CW on August 24, 2011 at 8:01 PM

Yes. Puberty should be a key in deciding. Maybe puberty is why Muslims keep girls in burkas – grin. Anyway, the world is sane so I am clearly insane…

Karmi on August 24, 2011 at 8:26 PM

hillbillyjim on August 24, 2011 at 8:21 PM

Are you kidding? I asserted nothing about Jetboy or his opinion before he made a sterotypical comment about and included me. I do not read his comments and would only refer to one of his to defend myself as I am oft required to do.

You point to a comment I made that warranted his generalization that he decided to include me.

hawkdriver on August 24, 2011 at 8:29 PM

Karmi on August 24, 2011 at 8:26 PM

At puberty, maybe are capable of shooting firearms. Perhaps you’d like to send them to combat also?

hawkdriver on August 24, 2011 at 8:30 PM

Karmi on August 24, 2011 at 8:26 PM
At puberty, many are capable of shooting firearms. Perhaps you’d like to send them to combat also?

hawkdriver on August 24, 2011 at 8:30 PM

hawkdriver on August 24, 2011 at 8:31 PM

This green room article is terrible and should not have been promoted. Tina Korbe needs to learn how to write a news post if she is going to talk about news.

1. There are no links to any sources. Anyone reading this article has no way to know who this psych group is, what they stand for, or what they did that caused tina korbe’s objection.

2. It is full of baseless opinions and conclusions which are pulled from thin air. korbe says these psychs are trying to “de-criminalize pedophilia”? It isn’t criminal to begin with. Some psych refuses to report pedos who come to see him? Well, duh, if he reported them, none would come to see him, none would get help, and the odds he would act on his desires criminally would increase!

Tina, after reading the article, especially following on the heels of you hyperventilating over the magazine with the underage model, the most reasonable conclusion that someone could draw is that you are hiding your sources in order to prevent anyone from scrutinizing your opinions, because you are aware that you are engaging in demagoguery instead of making thoughtful conclusions based on solid facts and analysis.

I think Tina just believes any guy who would look at anyone under 18 in a remotely sexual way is SICK SICK SICK and should be locked up forever, FOR THE CHILDREN. That’s all good and nice for her to feel that way, but most rational people who come to hotair want actual facts, not a soccer-mom type emotional overreaction to a serious legal issue.

Her post belongs in the comments section, not promoted to a real news item. I really don’t think her posts ought to be promoted if they are nothing more than linkless op-eds because no one cares about her opinion anyway. She isn’t a known, established poster who has earned the right to have people care about her personal opinions on anything, any more than they’d care about mine.

kaltes on August 24, 2011 at 8:33 PM

ganging up on him and throwing him in with the pedophiles is a bit unfair

I didn’t say throw open the door for pedophiles, so don’t play that tired tune.

STRAWMAN ALERT!! (again)

whatcat on August 24, 2011 at 8:33 PM

hawkdriver on August 24, 2011 at 8:29 PM

My comment wasn’t aimed at anyone in particular; I just think that it’s a shame that JetBoy got called out when he wasn’t even on the damn thread.

That is a bridge too far.

I haven’t been keeping up with every comment, nor will I, when a thread degenerates to rock-throwing.

I have no beef with you, hawk; you know this.

hillbillyjim on August 24, 2011 at 8:34 PM

but what I don’t get is why.

hillbillyjim on August 24, 2011 at 8:21 PM

Because the gist of the post is how pedophiles are now lobbying for “tolerance” of their behavior, using many of the same tactics homosexual activists used for the same thing. Many of us then pointed out we saw this coming.

Then some pro-homosexual commenters – including JB – tried to make the discussion about homosexuals, accusing those who pointed out the similarities in lobbying as equating homosexuality and pedophilia, which isn’t what is being said.

The debate is: Are pedophiles using the same types of tactics, justifications and rationale to gain acceptance for and tolerance of their behavior that homosexuals have used for decades. The evidence is clearly that they are.

catmman on August 24, 2011 at 8:35 PM

Anyone reading this article has no way to know who this psych group is, what they stand for, or what they did that caused tina korbe’s objection.
kaltes on August 24, 2011 at 8:33 PM

Just one word, Benjamin: “Google”.

(w/apologies to The Graduate)

whatcat on August 24, 2011 at 8:36 PM

Whether or not you agree with JetBoy’s stance on homosexuality, ganging up on him and throwing him in with the pedophiles is a bit unfair, a bit condescending, and a bit misguided.

Why, it is the same argument JetBoy uses that is being used by the Pedophiles. The longer the farce of acceptance of gays goes on the more likely pedophiles are to be granted similar privilege in society as gays have been granted. For practicing a lifestyle of death culture.

Can’t we have an adult discussion here without flaming people who may not be just like us but who have commonsense ideas about politics and government?

Funny, I used to know about 6 sets of identical twins back in my home town area. There were two sets who got along great, the four other sets personality wise could not have been better polar opposites. So, who exactly do you think may be just like me, or just like you? The issues are big enough and destructive enough to matter, and since they do, you can take your adult conversation argument and shove it into a deep dark smelly hole on your body.

No, I didn’t say throw open the door for pedophiles, so don’t play that tired tune.

The gay community and those who push for the gay lifestyle to be celbrated does that. If you are part of that group, then you do in fact work towards that very goal.

I don’t for a minute think that JetBoy condones pedophilia. I get that some of you are so against homosexuality that you feel the need to attack, but what I don’t get is why.

I know, just like the pot smokers probably do not condone meth heads, and meth heads do not condone cocaine users, and cocaine users abhor crack users, and crack users think heroine users are suicidal. None of the ones that are slightly less messed up than the next rung down the ladder are promoting for the other worse drugs to be legitimate, just the one they have as a pet project.

hillbillyjim on August 24, 2011 at 8:21 PM

Eh, so, suck it up, if you promote the gay cause, then you are the pedophiles best ally.

astonerii on August 24, 2011 at 8:39 PM

There is a God and he is not mocked…

CCRWM on August 24, 2011 at 8:41 PM

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