Rick Perry and the HPV debacle

posted at 8:20 pm on August 15, 2011 by Jazz Shaw

If the first casualty of war is truth, the first casualty of politics is common sense. The nascent battle for the 2012 GOP presidential nomination is no exception, and has already managed to find a way to drive me to distraction. It all started with Ed Morrissey’s report of questions put to presidential candidate Rick Perry over a 2007 mandate he issued as Texas governor for young girls to be vaccinated against the cancer-causing Human Papillomavirus (HPV.)

In Texas this caused a kerfuffle leading to Perry backing down on the issue, and now it seems that “conservative-minded” activists want to make sure that he’s learned his lesson about government sticking its nose into affairs of the family. Unfortunately, the greatest likelihood in this case is that politics has once again managed to turn partisan absolutism into a socially suicidal death spiral. And it’s not just socially conservative Republicans either. The Libertarians are up in arms as well, as I found out when I wound up in an extensive debate on the subject with libertarian leaning Doug Mataconis from Outside the Beltway. (Who expands upon the subject here.)

There are a number of obvious and important questions to deal with when a subject like this comes up. If people are objecting because the vaccine is dangerous or not needed, this is clearly a problem. In that case, the vaccine should be pulled from the shelves, fixed to make it safe or scrapped entirely. But Gardasil – the brand name of the vaccine in question – has now been tested in thousands of children and remains, according to the FDA, “as safe as any other vaccine.”

So what was the major objection to Perry’s order? As I suspected, it came down to politics rather than science in all the cases I found. In particular, HPV was noted to be a “sexually transmitted” disorder, which unfortunately draws some of the worst brand of politics into the mix before you can say boo. In some of the most extreme cases I ran into (with close personal friends, no less) there were soft whispers about how a vaccine against HPV would, “encourage or excuse promiscuity among our young women.” Ed Morrissey took a barely less direct approach, seeming to favorably link to an explanation from Joshua Mercer at Catholic Vote.

Obviously Merck wants to make a lot of money by making all of our daughters get the $120 shots. And I understand that sexually transmitted diseases have become a pandemic, one that we don’t talk enough about.

But if we force every daughter to get Gardasil, we have lost hope in the ability of our children to say no to hazardous premarital sex.

In effect, the very decision to give your daughter Gardasil tells your daughter: “I know you can’t say no.” This gives her the green light. She’ll think: “After all, Mom and Dad think I’m having sex anyway.”

When I hear arguments like this I can’t help but wonder if I’m about to step off of the last flight of the space shuttle program only to find that the entire ground crew is composed of talking apes handing out posters of the Statue of Liberty buried up to her neck in sand. Are you kidding me?

Did you miss the part where I mentioned that HPV causes cervical cancer? It’s also now definitively linked to a number of other less commonly occurring cancers, some of which affect boys as well. That’s why the FDA approved the drug for boys in 2010.

And oh, by the way, while far more rare, it’s already been determined that the virus might be spread in methods other than sexual contact. This is reminiscent of some of the early responses to HIV and how it was the “gay plague.” I don’t think that was of much comfort to the first heterosexual guy who caught it from a blood transfusion after he got into a car accident.

Others have attempted to raise arguments about whether or not it is the proper place of government at any level to order parents to get their children vaccinated. Again, this battle has already been repeatedly fought and, thankfully, lost. All the states have school immunization laws for children which have been challenged in the courts and repeatedly upheld. Even if the federal government were to enact something like this, a possible precedent for such power exists, as Washington has long mandated immunization rules for immigrants coming to live in the United States.

But all of the technical details pale in comparison to what I see as the major madness in this discussion. I’ve lost count already of how many times I’ve already brought this up in this column, but we’re talking about C*A*N*C*E*R here. We’ve been working on this for years and finally somebody came up with a way to stop at least the next generation of people from getting one version of it which affects, on average, more than 12,000 women in the United States each year and kills more than 4,000 of them.

And we can stop it.

And you’re arguing about politics and getting upset because the Governor of Texas, in a “moment of weakness,” tried to do something about it. And some of you managed to get him to back down.

Nice job.

Roughly half the adult men in this country and nearly 80% of the adult women have or will have the HPV virus by the age of fifty. The men will almost never exhibit any symptoms and may never even know they have it. Not everyone has to be tested for it in every state, even when they get married. Your little girl – no matter how studiously you work to make sure she is virginal on her wedding night – could wind up marrying a man carrying it, catch it, and die of cancer. And it could have been stopped.

Shockingly, a few of you, (such as my friend Doug) are saying that cervical cancer is “not a public health threat.” Or perhaps it’s “not as communicable as smallpox.” I don’t know what to say to these people. Not a public health threat? It’s CANCER. Not communicable? Then why does roughly 3/4 of the population carry it, most without knowing it? The odds are that a majority of you reading this have HPV right now. You might want to get checked.

Though most of you will now scoff, I believe in small government conservatism. I dislike the massive growth of government and the corresponding overreach of power and endangerment of civil liberties. But in a case like this I will gladly take my place among the brown-shirts. If the vaccine is proven safe and effective, as the reports I’m seeing indicate, then I want the government to make sure every young girl gets it. HPV is transmitted primarily – though not always – through sex, and the vast majority of those young girls are eventually going to have sex, even if only with their husbands. And the odds are too high that the husband in question might have it and not even know it.

A special message for those of you chanting, “well, it’s still optional. Any family can choose to have the vaccination, or a test. It’s just not the government’s job.” I envy you. You certainly have a refreshing, optimistic, and completely fictional faith in the intelligence, common sense and foresight of the entire population. I have no idea where you came by it. But every person who fails to exhibit that intelligence and foresight will be primed to keep unleashing more of the same out into the general public. I’m sure you’ll be happy to know you secured that freedom from the oppressive hand of the government for them.

Bottom line: Many years ago, with the power and enforcement of the government, we wiped out smallpox, a disease which was devastating the land. Today a method is in hand to wipe out at least one form of the greatest medical scourge we face today: cancer. For such a tool to be within reach of the government – on any level – and for them not to act would not be a failure or success of partisan politics or ideology. It would be a crime against humanity.

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I’m more interested in his bi-national health care plan with Mexico. The idiocy of such an approach is mind-boggling.

swamp_yankee on August 15, 2011 at 8:21 PM

Thank you!

Aronne on August 15, 2011 at 8:22 PM

Today a method is in hand to wipe out at least one form of the greatest medical scourge we face today: cancer. For such a tool to be within reach of the government – on any level – and for them not to act would not be a failure or success of partisan politics or ideology. It would be a crime against humanity.

Bravo Jazz, well said.

Knucklehead on August 15, 2011 at 8:23 PM

It’s a worthwhile investment.

lexhamfox on August 15, 2011 at 8:24 PM

I was going to quote something, then II realized I’d have to quote the whole article.

So let me say: thank you for the common sense. Heaven forbid the government do anything whatsoever.

Now that I think about it, it seems like it’s not the government’s job to defend people via the police. That seems like a violation of my right to protect myself with my own gun. Maybe we should ban the police.

doodleduh on August 15, 2011 at 8:25 PM

Thank you. We live in Texas. We had our triplet daughters take the vaccine. We don’t want them to get cancer. No I don’t think Gov. Perry should have mandated it yet my wife and I were glad he raised our awareness of the issue. It also takes a mighty big man to admit he was wrong on an issue. Any one saying that Romney care was a mistake yet?

skatz51 on August 15, 2011 at 8:26 PM

I was ok with the program, since it was my understanding that those truly opposed could opt-out. Apparently I was the minority too. But regardless of the outcome, this is something I just can’t hold against him. Ah well.

XWing5 on August 15, 2011 at 8:27 PM

Should your daughter die because of a moment of weakness? Because of date rape?

It’s cancer. Period.

Well said Jazz.

Irritable Pundit on August 15, 2011 at 8:27 PM

in Virginia, we had the same law. the “constitutionalists”, religious right & libertarians went nuts over this. i think this law was repealed.

kelley in virginia on August 15, 2011 at 8:30 PM

So, if government knows something is best for you, and they really, really know it, they can…..or should be able to….. FORCE YOU to do it.

Hmmm.

rightwingyahooo on August 15, 2011 at 8:30 PM

I’m all for the Gardasil vaccine & only wish it was around before my cousin contracted cervical cancer. I think it should be paid for by the insurance companies like all the other vaccines are. I think that Perry had the right intentions but the wrong method — it should have been through the TX congress and not an EO. But I’m not seeing what all the hysteria is about from those ready to rake him over the coals for this. I don’t know Perry that well yet, and there may well be things to rake him over the coals for. This one isn’t it, IMO.

Dark Star on August 15, 2011 at 8:30 PM

Bottom line: Many years ago, with the power and enforcement of the government, we wiped out smallpox, a disease which was devastating the land. Today a method is in hand to wipe out at least one form of the greatest medical scourge we face today: cancer. For such a tool to be within reach of the government – on any level – and for them not to act would not be a failure or success of partisan politics or ideology. It would be a crime against humanity.

First off, I would want my kids to have the Gardasil.

That being said…

HPV ain’t spread in publicly communicable ways like smallpox was, however “mights” and “possibilities” you may throw at it.

HPV has approximately 200 strains. Gardasil protects against 4 of the most common/dangerous. In other words, IMHO you’re at least as likely to develop cancer from HPV after being vaccinated as you are developing it after contracting HPV in some rare non-sexual manner.

Parents have the right to object to immunizations, and practice it daily. I think it can lead to danger and problems, but if “conscientious objector” type opt-outs exists for an MMR, why would that be problematic for Gardasil?

In other words, I think the vaccine is a great technological breakthrough, and should be used. I also think Perry misjudged in how he pushed for it politically, and has acknowledged his error.

You might consider doing the same, after painting with such dramatic language as “Crime against Humanity!!”

Just my $0.02, take it or leave it.

cs89 on August 15, 2011 at 8:31 PM

Isn’t this the same argument commonly made in favor of Ogabecare?

rightwingyahooo on August 15, 2011 at 8:31 PM

Again, the real issue here is that this mandate reveals something important about Rick Perry’s insctinct and governing style. He issued an executive order over the objections of the Texas legislature and his own party to create a medical mandate worth hundreds of millions of dollars. It’s just one example of the many ways, thoughout his tenure as governor, that big corporations whose directors support his campaigns tend to coincidentally get subsidies and mandates from the Texas government.

The controversy over Perry’s decision deepened as it came to light that his former chief of staff was a lobbyist for Merck and that his chief of staff’s mother-in-law, Rep. Dianne White Delisi, was the state director of an advocacy group bankrolled by Merck to push legislatures across the country to put forward bills mandating the Gardasil vaccine for preteen girls.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2011/06/04/rick_perrys_gardasil_problem_110089.html

The mandate is a graphic example of Perry’s cronyism and corporatist impulses. Perry is no free marketeer. Instincts like this led to atrocious policies like TARP and the bailouts – crony capitalism is the enemy of free markets.

Inkblots on August 15, 2011 at 8:31 PM

Wow Jazz, awesome. I feel your frustration. I mean, it’s a vaccine — that prevents frickin cancer!

stefanite on August 15, 2011 at 8:31 PM

to me, this is a small issue compared with the whispers i’m hearing of his amnesty/DREAM act ideas (but, as a Texan, he is on the forefront of the immigration issue so he probably knows more about it than I do) or his campaigning for Al Gore in 88.

kelley in virginia on August 15, 2011 at 8:31 PM

You know who is on my list of people I always trust, the FDA. /sarc

j_galt on August 15, 2011 at 8:32 PM

I don’t know what to say to these people. Not a public health threat? It’s CANCER.

Whoa! Stop the train! Is Jazz Shaw suggesting we ban cigarettes?

MeatHeadinCA on August 15, 2011 at 8:33 PM

Should your daughter die because of a moment of weakness? Because of date rape?

It’s cancer. Period.

Well said Jazz.

Irritable Pundit on August 15, 2011 at 8:27 PM

And lets not forget — a married woman having sex with her husband can contract cervical cancer. The reason to give it to teenage girls (from my understanding) is that once a female reaches a certain age, the vaccine doesn’t work — that’s why I’m not running out to get it myself. Do people *seriously* think only sex outside of marriage can cause cervical cancer?

Dark Star on August 15, 2011 at 8:34 PM

i don’t think this was crony capitalism (your evidence notwithstanding) as much as he thought “wow, I can really make a difference & wipe out cervical cancer in Texas.” politicians think in these grand sweeps.

like barack AbeBama comparing himself to Lincoln

kelley in virginia on August 15, 2011 at 8:34 PM

Get down off your high horse.

People have reasons for being concerned about this issue. Valid reasons. Your acting like your opinion alone should quell any further argument does not settle the objections, it only makes you look arrogant and pompous.

Perhaps YOU couldn’t keep it in your pants so there’s a risk YOU might spread it, but some of us did, and pose no threat to the populace at large. Some of us are trying to teach our children to do the same.

Back off, or take a different tone if you want people to listen to your side. Otherwise you’re going to harden hearts.

theotherone on August 15, 2011 at 8:34 PM

Jazz is being nice here to build credibility in taking a cheap shot later…. ;)

Nice piece Jazz

phreshone on August 15, 2011 at 8:34 PM

I can remember when they first came out with the polio vaccine. I was about 4 years old I think. I can remember my parents and me going to the local grade school where they gave us the vaccine by way of a sugar cube placed on our tongues. My Dad was so impressed and happy that there was such a thing, because polio had crippled so many people over the years.

Now we act as if a vaccine is an intrusion.

Terrye on August 15, 2011 at 8:34 PM

Did you miss the part where I mentioned that HPV causes cervical cancer?

I got this far, and realized I need not read any farther. Should I go down the list of things that cause cancer?

Why don’t you go ahead and thrown in children.

Did I say that HPV causes cancer in CHILDREN!

j_galt on August 15, 2011 at 8:34 PM

to me, this is a small issue compared with the whispers i’m hearing of his amnesty/DREAM act ideas (but, as a Texan, he is on the forefront of the immigration issue so he probably knows more about it than I do) or his campaigning for Al Gore in 88.

kelley in virginia on August 15, 2011 at 8:31 PM

There was a time when Reagan supported FDR too.

Terrye on August 15, 2011 at 8:36 PM

Isn’t this the same argument commonly made in favor of Ogabecare?

rightwingyahooo on August 15, 2011 at 8:31 PM

In that same spirit

MeatHeadinCA on August 15, 2011 at 8:36 PM

Are we vaccinating illegals?

SouthernGent on August 15, 2011 at 8:37 PM

Thanks Jazz – you are spot on concerning the HPV vaccine and I’ll be immunizing my daughter.

I think what Perry tried to do in Texas was for noble reasons … however, we have to be careful about the slippery slope that mandatory vaccinations would cause. If you can make everyone get an HPV vaccine – you can make them all get Anthrax vaccines … etc.

People should have free choice – and that free choice should be honored even if they make the wrong choice.

I think Perry got the message on this – a bit late, but no damage was done … just a big flap and no one got hurt – or had their rights violated.

HondaV65 on August 15, 2011 at 8:37 PM

Nice try but No way he gets my vote not for this but for many others

KBird on August 15, 2011 at 8:37 PM

no no no… not Perry and HPV. Perry and Al Gore. Drudge has it up now. Perry was Al Gore’s b&t&h. Sorry, but how’s that gonna work out? Republicans have such a revulsion toward Al Gore, not to mention Perry was against Reagan.

This has popcorn written all over it. With butter. And salt.

MrX on August 15, 2011 at 8:37 PM

I envy you. You certainly have a refreshing, optimistic, and completely fictional faith in the intelligence, common sense and foresight of the entire population.

Yeah, they’re such children. They need such looking after, I can’t believe it. If only there were a group of people that could take care of them. Hey wait, I know …

This line of thinking is extremely dangerous. I can not emphasize enough that this thought is almost the entire justification for the Progressive movement, and their desire to have the United States run by an elite cadre of administrators.

Because you, the citizen, are really too stupid to make decisions about your health, your children’s health, your leaders, your finances, etc. etc.

If parents are too stupid to take care of their children, then the state should, etc. etc.

I mean, I understand the argument for the vaccine, I totally do. (Especially in terms of attempting to elimnate a virus.) But dismissing “citizen’s choice” as “Well they’re too stupid to know better” is an extremely dangerous argument. It’s most commonly used by the Left to justify their programs.

So … probably shouldn’t use it. Seriously, it’s a bad, bad argument to make.

apollyonbob on August 15, 2011 at 8:37 PM

Thank you. We live in Texas. We had our triplet daughters take the vaccine. We don’t want them to get cancer. No I don’t think Gov. Perry should have mandated it yet my wife and I were glad he raised our awareness of the issue. It also takes a mighty big man to admit he was wrong on an issue. Any one saying that Romney care was a mistake yet?

skatz51 on August 15, 2011 at 8:26 PM

Having only gone through it with one daughter, and coming to the same conclusion, I salute you, three times.

The last thing any of the people using this for ammo want to hear from though is some one who’s been through it.

A good thing done in the wrong way.

cozmo on August 15, 2011 at 8:37 PM

2 threads on this in one day? Isn’t there anything else going on?

Missy on August 15, 2011 at 8:39 PM

To me, this is the difference between conservatives and libertarians. Conservatives believe that there are some things that government should do. Like national defense. Like securing our borders. Like preventing the spread of disease where it can.

stefanite on August 15, 2011 at 8:39 PM

I guess AllahPundit wasn’t sufficently squishy enough that hot Air had to give a platform to somebody even less conservative. If it weren’t for Ed this blog would be completely worthless.

paulzummo on August 15, 2011 at 8:40 PM

The reason to give it to teenage girls (from my understanding) is that once a female reaches a certain age, the vaccine doesn’t work — that’s why I’m not running out to get it myself. Do people *seriously* think only sex outside of marriage can cause cervical cancer?

Dark Star on August 15, 2011 at 8:34 PM

Not sure – but I believe it does work for older women as well but … I think it’s not a “pregnancy friendly” drug … which is why little girls are vaccinated before they can really get pregnant.

Maybe? Seems I read that somewhere.

HondaV65 on August 15, 2011 at 8:40 PM

Coming from the South where a lot of people are registered D (especially before they changed the primary system where only Ds could vote) but vote “R” and where a Southern D is *more* conservative as your average RINO like McCain, I don’t think this is a big deal.

Reagan used to be registered Dem. too. People can grow up.

Dark Star on August 15, 2011 at 8:42 PM

Many years ago, with the power and enforcement of the government, we wiped out smallpox, a disease which was devastating the land. Today a method is in hand to wipe out at least one form of the greatest medical scourge we face today: cancer.

Fine sentiment Jazz and I can fully understand the desire. There are lots of other types of disease you can crusade to lessen if you feel like it.
1) Badly grilled meat causes cancer. Perhaps the government can outlaw barbaques unless you have a safe cooking course.
2) Cigarettes cause cancer. Perhaps you can help lead the charge to outlaw those.
3) Heart disease is a merciless killer. Maybe you can join Mayor Bloomburg in possibly outlawing fried food. Thank God he already got trans-fats without your help.
In a nutshell it is not the job of the state to protect us from ourselves. If I had a young daughter, I guarantee you I would be looking at Guardisil and weighing the health risks. I am not comfortable telling someone they must immunize their families against a disease that is not easily communicable. A bright line needs exist somewhere and I think that is a very good place for it.

Dawnsblood on August 15, 2011 at 8:43 PM

I guess AllahPundit wasn’t sufficently squishy enough that hot Air had to give a platform to somebody even less conservative. If it weren’t for Ed this blog would be completely worthless.

paulzummo on August 15, 2011 at 8:40 PM

I think Jazz is spot on with the HPV vaccine and how much it makes sense.

However, I think he’s way off base in advocating it be mandatory. I can protect all my kids for HPV by getting them vaccinated – my next door neighbor’s kids – I don’t care about them or if they get vaccinated – why should I? They are only harming themselves and anyone they infect (who also hasn’t had the vaccine).

So there you go. Freedom of Choice … we’ve got to have it.

HondaV65 on August 15, 2011 at 8:43 PM

Like preventing the spread of disease where it can.

stefanite on August 15, 2011 at 8:39 PM

Do want to ban cigarettes? Regulate food intake? Are you conservative? If you answered yes to all three questions, I’m confused.

MeatHeadinCA on August 15, 2011 at 8:43 PM

Perry and Al Gore. Drudge has it up now. Perry was Al Gore’s b&t&h. Sorry, but how’s that gonna work out? Republicans have such a revulsion toward Al Gore, not to mention Perry was against Reagan.

This has popcorn written all over it. With butter. And salt.

MrX on August 15, 2011 at 8:37 PM

That was 20 years ago, and has been said noted countless times already, Reagan was a Dem too at one time. Bachmann? She worked for Carter. Of all the Perry criticisms, that is by far the weakest. He obviously doesn’t support Gore now, and hasn;t for some time.

changer1701 on August 15, 2011 at 8:44 PM

After reviewing the three articles below covering the vaccination program, this is extremely troubling, as there is apparently no credible justification for mandating this program upon girls in the public school system. I can now understand why parents were scared, and sufficiently angered, to impel the Texas legislature to overwhelmingly overule their own party’s governor on this matter.

Governor Perry’s argument that this was motivated by his desire to protect life is simply not credible given the performance of the vaccine, as reflected in the quotation below.

“Dr. Harper explained that 90 percent of HPV infections resolve themselves after 2 years, and that the vast majority of those cases (70 percent) actually resolve unaided in under one year’s time.

Moreover, the number of cervical cancer cases in the United States is so low that vaccines and PAP screenings would not lower the cervical cancer rate unless 70 percent of the population was vaccinated. And even then, the cancer rate decrease would be minimal.

According to Dr. Harper, preventative measures and traditional therapies have already cut the cervical cancer rate by 4 percent a year. With these current treatments, she said, HPV will be nearly eradicated in 60 years. Gardasil could not claim to do as much as traditional care is already doing, even if 70 percent of the women received vaccinations and booster shots in that same period of time, Dr. Harper explained.

Essentially, the risks of adverse side effects caused by the vaccine are much greater then the risks of developing cervical cancer.”

http://www.beasleyallen.com/news/hpv-vaccine-developer-speaks-out-against-gardasil-cervarix/

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2011/06/04/rick_perrys_gardasil_problem_110089.html

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/08/19/cbsnews_investigates/main5253431.shtml

SheetAnchor on August 15, 2011 at 8:45 PM

I agree with Jazz on this. Even in Perry’s apology, he stated he hated cancer. So do I. So do I think most people of any intelligence (of course there is a not too insignificant portion of the population who think Bush was behind 9-11, so take that fwiw). Of all the things a government can do, requiring young girls to get vaccinated, is really, really, REALLY low on the totem pole of government intrusiveness and overreach.

For those SoCons (of which I am one) who think vaccinating young girls against HPV will cause them to lose their sexual inhibitions, I am truly at a loss for words. I mean, never mind that in the heat of the moment, I don’t think very many young girls/women will even think for a second, “Thank goodness I got vaccinated against HPV, now I can go ALL THE WAY tonight.” However, for all those concerned parents out there worried about losing a deterrent there are still plenty of STDs out there that your kids can still catch. Also, as a Catholic there are other disincentives for engaging in premarital sex (I am in the words of Jim Gaffigan a “Shiite Catholic”) .

As to the Libertarians (sorry Patrick), is this whole issue such a big deal? Really? Anyway, my more than two cents.

Mike Rathbone on August 15, 2011 at 8:45 PM

If only ObamaCare was a one time vaccination.
Instead we have to deal with it day-in and day-out…month after month…year after year….
.
.
.
Just like a cancer.

Electrongod on August 15, 2011 at 8:46 PM

we’re talking about C*A*N*C*E*R here. We’ve been working on this for years and finally somebody came up with a way to stop at least the next generation of people from getting one version of it which affects, on average, more than 12,000 women in the United States each year and kills more than 4,000 of them.

And we can stop it.

So let’s outlaw cigarettes next. And then salt, cause that causes high blood pressure which causes heart attacks and that kills LOTS of people.

This article is crap because ultimately, most of us don’t really care that much about Gardisil – we care about what it tells us about Perry. How willing is he to use EOs? Did he pass this one without much research which would infer he used EOs pretty commonly? WAS there a connection with Merck? Among other things…

This article is useless. Weren’t not voting on the efficacy of a vaccine – we are voting on the president. Don’t convince me about the vaccine – convince me about the candidate.

miConsevative on August 15, 2011 at 8:46 PM

MeatHeadinCA on August 15, 2011 at 8:43 PM

I know its a murky area, but if you’re trying to eradicate virus like Polio or HPV, everyone has to get it or it doesn’t work. One generation has to do it so that future ones don’t have to worry about it.

stefanite on August 15, 2011 at 8:48 PM

Dark Star on August 15, 2011 at 8:34 PM

With respect, your understanding is wrong.

The reason they give it to young girls is because it is a vaccine, to prevent HPV, which can lead to cervical cancer years later.

It is less effective to give it to adult women who are already sexually active, and may already have contracted HPV.

The whole cycle (getting HPV, having one of the forms that is chronic and can lead to precancerous lesions, then developing cancer) can take decades.

So, the idea is to give it to adolescent girls (and it is being given to some boys as well at this time, with further studies ongoing).

cs89 on August 15, 2011 at 8:49 PM

Oh…and one further thing. The entire article is a straw man if he is trying to convince us such legislation could eradicate cervical cancer because this vaccine only kills the strains of HPV that currently cause cancer. The other strains would be around – that ain’t eradication. And the remaining viruses could mutate and adapt – as viruses tend to do – to cause cancer.

miConsevative on August 15, 2011 at 8:49 PM

So Mr Shaw, I assume you are for making cigarettes illegal? I am glad I didn’t have to make this decision because this is far to new and far to limited for me to blindly follow some mandate from the government. Polio, small pox are communicable diseases, cancer is horrific but you don’t “catch” it.

Cindy Munford on August 15, 2011 at 8:50 PM

MeatHeadinCA on August 15, 2011 at 8:43 PM

And no, I don’t want to regulate food intake. That is a personal choice that doesn’t make other people sick. Cigarettes… well I’m not stepping on that land-mine.

stefanite on August 15, 2011 at 8:51 PM

No matter the purpose, the ends never justify the means.

Make the information public, the vaccine available at a reasonable cost, and leave it at that.

OldEnglish on August 15, 2011 at 8:51 PM

Tell me, Jazz.

If there is a chemical compound that we find can help deter forms of cancer, should the government force children to be vaccinated with it? Where’s the limit?

MadisonConservative on August 15, 2011 at 8:51 PM

Remember when doctors were prescribing and parents were
readily giving their children Ritalin?

Remember when women had “female issues” and doctors were
prescribing hysterectomies? (sorry, don’t know how to spell that).

Now, the cry is “Perry was stopping cancer!”

Amjean on August 15, 2011 at 8:51 PM

Shorter version:

Cancer is bad. Therefore, nevermind freedom or choice or conscience. Even though there’s a 100% risk-free way of avoiding this particular cancer.

If I had a daughter, she’d probably get this vaccination. But I wouldn’t force it on other people. Anyone who doesn’t want to get HPV can avoid getting HPV. It’s not like smallpox or measles that way.

Kohath on August 15, 2011 at 8:52 PM

So far, this is my main issue with Perry. I really, really dislike crony capitalism. Can’t we find someone reasonably honest for the job? Or is “honest politician” too much of an oxymoron?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304760604576428262897285614.html

alwaysfiredup on August 15, 2011 at 8:54 PM

Essentially, the risks of adverse side effects caused by the vaccine are much greater then the risks of developing cervical cancer.”

SheetAnchor on August 15, 2011 at 8:45 PM

And what is this, the fourth time you have posted this even when you were shown that the links do not support your claim.

Your claim is BS

cozmo on August 15, 2011 at 8:55 PM

Do want to ban cigarettes? Regulate food intake? Are you conservative? If you answered yes to all three questions, I’m confused.

MeatHeadinCA on August 15, 2011 at 8:43 PM

Having been old enough to remember the ravages of polio in my lifetime, would you not want this for your own daughter to prevent the possibility of her getting cancer?

Take your ideologue hat off for a minute and think about.

People don’t have to smoke and do so at their own risk.

Knucklehead on August 15, 2011 at 8:55 PM

Make the information public, the vaccine available at a reasonable cost, and leave it at that.

OldEnglish on August 15, 2011 at 8:51 PM

+1

cs89 on August 15, 2011 at 8:55 PM

The reason to give it to teenage girls (from my understanding) is that once a female reaches a certain age, the vaccine doesn’t work — that’s why I’m not running out to get it myself.

Dark Star on August 15, 2011 at 8:34 PM

Not sure – but I believe it does work for older women as well but … I think it’s not a “pregnancy friendly” drug … which is why little girls are vaccinated before they can really get pregnant.

Maybe? Seems I read that somewhere.

HondaV65 on August 15, 2011 at 8:40 PM

Guardasil works for anybody who hasn’t been exposed to the four types of HPV it prevents, but it was only tested on women ages 9-26 so that’s the group it was approved for. Even if you have one of the four types of HPV and get the vaccine it should still protect you against the other three.

vermillionsky on August 15, 2011 at 8:55 PM

Knucklehead on August 15, 2011 at 8:55 PM

The polio vaccination isn’t mandatory. Most people get it anyway because they are rational. Some people don’t. Why should the HPV vaccination be mandatory when others aren’t?

alwaysfiredup on August 15, 2011 at 8:56 PM

Washington has long mandated immunization rules for immigrants coming to live in the United States.

Oka-a-a-ay… I don’t think we do, when we have a border of Swiss cheese and fast food places that hire illegals. This is a farce.

No offense to the Swiss.

Fallon on August 15, 2011 at 8:57 PM

The government can make vaccinations for such non-airborne contagions publicly and cheaply available without coercing people. And conservatives can object to mandates without sanctifying death as biblical sex education.

Seth Halpern on August 15, 2011 at 8:57 PM

Even if you have one of the four types of HPV it guards against and get the vaccine it should still protect you against the other three.

vermillionsky on August 15, 2011 at 8:55 PM

edited to clarify

vermillionsky on August 15, 2011 at 8:58 PM

I know its a murky area, but if you’re trying to eradicate virus like Polio or HPV, everyone has to get it or it doesn’t work. One generation has to do it so that future ones don’t have to worry about it.

stefanite on August 15, 2011 at 8:48 PM

And no, I don’t want to regulate food intake. That is a personal choice that doesn’t make other people sick. Cigarettes… well I’m not stepping on that land-mine.

stefanite on August 15, 2011 at 8:51 PM

Yeah, isn’t Polio making a comeback in sub-Saharan Africa because not everyone is getting vaccinated? You don’t support invading those countries and mandating vaccinations, do you?

Anyway, my understanding (after reading through Jazz’s article) is that if you have the vaccine you can’t get the cancer. Well, then, shouldn’t we leave that up to the parents. That’s their personal decision to make, right? It’s the same thing as with fat intake. Let people choose how to feed themselves (and their children). Yeah, obesity (and the dangerous things associated with it) might not go away, but as you say, it’s a personal choice.

MeatHeadinCA on August 15, 2011 at 8:58 PM

Tell me, Jazz.

If there is a chemical compound that we find can help deter forms of cancer, should the government force children to be vaccinated with it? Where’s the limit?

MadisonConservative on August 15, 2011 at 8:51 PM

I had to be vaccinated for grade school. I don’t think there was a choice, but I don’t remember any public uprising over it.

stefanite on August 15, 2011 at 8:59 PM

Shorter version:

Cancer is bad. Therefore, nevermind freedom or choice or conscience. Even though there’s a 100% risk-free way of avoiding this particular cancer.

If I had a daughter, she’d probably get this vaccination. But I wouldn’t force it on other people. Anyone who doesn’t want to get HPV can avoid getting HPV. It’s not like smallpox or measles that way.

Kohath on August 15, 2011 at 8:52 PM

No you could opt-out, Parents were allowed to opt out of the mandate by filling out an affidavit.. There is your freedom of choice or conscience.

Mike Rathbone on August 15, 2011 at 8:59 PM

Knucklehead on August 15, 2011 at 8:55 PM

Polio was viral & highly communicable. I just don’t think they are the same.

Cindy Munford on August 15, 2011 at 8:59 PM

HPV causes cervical cancer and has been retrieved from over 50 percent of head and neck cancers in men and women, period. It’s not “having a hysterectomy for bad humors”.

(Anybody else in medicine and just want to stay away from these threads?)

Marcus on August 15, 2011 at 8:59 PM

Having been old enough to remember the ravages of polio in my lifetime, would you not want this for your own daughter to prevent the possibility of her getting cancer?

Take your ideologue hat off for a minute and think about.

People don’t have to smoke and do so at their own risk.

Knucklehead on August 15, 2011 at 8:55 PM

You can catch polio from touching an infected person or anything that has their saliva on it or by drinking water.

You can catch HPV by having sex.

To modify your last line – People don’t have to have unsafe sex ad do so at their own risk.

miConsevative on August 15, 2011 at 9:01 PM

Has Alex Jones had a field day with this one yet?

Lanceman on August 15, 2011 at 9:02 PM

The polio vaccination isn’t mandatory. Most people get it anyway because they are rational. Some people don’t. Why should the HPV vaccination be mandatory when others aren’t?

alwaysfiredup on August 15, 2011 at 8:56 PM

Who said it’s mandatory? You can’t get your kids into public school without a polio, mumps, rubella etc shots.

Knucklehead on August 15, 2011 at 9:02 PM

…et tu Jazz?

equanimous on August 15, 2011 at 9:02 PM

(Anybody else in medicine and just want to stay away from these threads?)

Marcus on August 15, 2011 at 8:59 PM

I’m in medical research and a (closeted) conservative. These threads are hard, because I understand that personal choice is a First Principle.

stefanite on August 15, 2011 at 9:04 PM

Having been old enough to remember the ravages of polio in my lifetime, would you not want this for your own daughter to prevent the possibility of her getting cancer?

Take your ideologue hat off for a minute and think about.

People don’t have to smoke and do so at their own risk.

Knucklehead on August 15, 2011 at 8:55 PM

I would probably make the choice to vaccinate my daughter(s). That would be me and my wife’s decision, though.

My view is that government mandates are dangerous. I’m under the impression that if I choose to vaccinate my daughters against HPV, then even if their future sexual partner (hopefully singular) has HPV, they won’t get it. I don’t see how the uniform mandate (for girls) protects my daughter anymore than my judgment would have.

MeatHeadinCA on August 15, 2011 at 9:05 PM

Why does this “Jazz” person blog here? Did the proprietors of HotAir decide that there needed to be an agitator; an antagonist? Did they feel that having someone professing to be a conservative sticking his thumb in the eye of regular readership would be somehow positive?

This is a political blog for conservatives, and its body of readers routinely makes its proclivity for traditional values known.

So why is a person with consistently contrarian viewpoints a regular contributor here?

I am not opposed to expanding my horizons and consuming opinions different than my own. I just don’t wish to do so at HotAir.

Can I get a oo-rah and an amen?

IronDioPriest on August 15, 2011 at 9:05 PM

When you are the governor of a state with 1,200 miles of border with Mexico, and when Mexican males are the single largest carrier source of HPV in all the world — then protecting the endangered female Texas children is not such a dumb idea.

Like our bedbug infestations, HPV cases in Texas are expanding exponentially.

herdgadfly on August 15, 2011 at 9:05 PM

Nope. There’s no such thing as 100% safe vaccine. And girls have DIED from this one. Not from immediate allergic reaction, and not at some nebulous point in the future when they got cancer from not having it. But rather, within weeks of receiving the injection.
http://www.judicialwatch.org/gardasil

Murf76 on August 15, 2011 at 9:06 PM

Polio was viral & highly communicable. I just don’t think they are the same.

Cindy Munford on August 15, 2011 at 8:59 PM

Cindy, I had cervical cancer 18 years ago, caught it early and wouldn’t anyone to suffer with the treatments etc, like I did.

Perhaps I’m biased and should remove myself from the discussion.

Knucklehead on August 15, 2011 at 9:06 PM

miConsevative on August 15, 2011 at 9:01 PM

But you can also get HPV from a towel. It’s not exclusively spread by sexual contact. Heck, you could get it from improperly-sterilized medical equipment. It’s literally everywhere. It’s smart to get the immunization. That doesn’t mean it has to be mandated by the state. The chicken pox immunization is the same way: nice to get, not required.

alwaysfiredup on August 15, 2011 at 9:07 PM

You can’t get your kids into public school without a polio, mumps, rubella etc shots.

Knucklehead on August 15, 2011 at 9:02 PM

Yes, you can.

alwaysfiredup on August 15, 2011 at 9:08 PM

…et tu Jazz?

equanimous on August 15, 2011 at 9:02 PM

You kiddin’? There hasn’t been a small government conservative writing here since the boss left.

Lanceman on August 15, 2011 at 9:08 PM

I had to be vaccinated for grade school. I don’t think there was a choice, but I don’t remember any public uprising over it.

stefanite on August 15, 2011 at 8:59 PM

Maybe there should have been. I wish there had been a stronger push back towards the leftward shift we’ve seen going on for the past 50-100 years. Does that mean that the Tea Party’s somewhat unique appearance on the political stage should be pushed aside and ignored?

MeatHeadinCA on August 15, 2011 at 9:08 PM

You can’t get your kids into public school without a polio, mumps, rubella etc shots.

Knucklehead on August 15, 2011 at 9:02 PM

I hate to tell you, Knucklehead, but my parents, ever the conspiracy theorists, declined to have me vaccinated before high school on religious grounds.

Lanceman on August 15, 2011 at 9:09 PM

You can catch HPV by having sex.

To modify your last line – People don’t have to have unsafe sex ad do so at their own risk.

miConsevative on August 15, 2011 at 9:01 PM

As had already been explained to you, those are the old talking points, yet you continue to use them.

cozmo on August 15, 2011 at 9:09 PM

But you can also get HPV from a towel. It’s not exclusively spread by sexual contact. Heck, you could get it from improperly-sterilized medical equipment. It’s literally everywhere. It’s smart to get the immunization. That doesn’t mean it has to be mandated by the state. The chicken pox immunization is the same way: nice to get, not required.

alwaysfiredup on August 15, 2011 at 9:07 PM

Was just pointing out the absurd comparison to polio. And just because it CAN be spread a certain way doesn’t mean that it’s common to be spread that way. But agree with your conclusion.

miConsevative on August 15, 2011 at 9:09 PM

I would like to stand up and salute all of you fighting for the individual rights of parents to expose their daughters to cancer for no damn reason if they want to. America is all about freedom.

Jazz Shaw on August 15, 2011 at 9:10 PM

I am not opposed to expanding my horizons and consuming opinions different than my own. I just don’t wish to do so at HotAir.

Can I get a oo-rah and an amen?

IronDioPriest on August 15, 2011 at 9:05 PM

I don’t mind listening to the other pov; however, it does seem like there is a certain directional pov here ;)

MeatHeadinCA on August 15, 2011 at 9:10 PM

So what was the major objection to Perry’s order? As I suspected, it came down to politics rather than science in all the cases I found

Wait a minute, that is a part of it but the mandate was a much bigger issue than you are warranting! I assume you are against the Obamacare mandate? Also, there has been some time between then and now to study Gardasil a little more extensively! Sorry, I have a bit of a problem with how easy you dispense of parents issues with this. You will fight a mandate on one hand and condone another, both I might add, being sold for the greater good, please! Your condescension through this article to educate us dumb rubes is disturbing at the least.

bluemarlin on August 15, 2011 at 9:11 PM

I would like to stand up and salute all of you fighting for the individual rights of parents to expose their daughters to cancer for no damn reason if they want to. America is all about freedom.

Jazz Shaw on August 15, 2011 at 9:10 PM

You have a hard time getting to what is really important about an issue, don’t you?

miConsevative on August 15, 2011 at 9:12 PM

I would like to stand up and salute all of you fighting for the individual rights of parents to expose their daughters to cancer for no damn reason if they want to. America is all about freedom.

Jazz Shaw on August 15, 2011 at 9:10 PM

Are you suggesting that parents have the right to “give” their children cancer? I think that’s criminal.

MeatHeadinCA on August 15, 2011 at 9:12 PM

Can I get a oo-rah and an amen?

IronDioPriest on August 15, 2011 at 9:05 PM

Not from me, even when I don’t agree, at least his stuff is well thought out. Cannot say that for all of the Green room writers.

cozmo on August 15, 2011 at 9:14 PM

You have a hard time getting to what is really important about an issue, don’t you?

miConsevative on August 15, 2011 at 9:12 PM

As we type, Jazz Shaw is working tirelessly to pass legislation that would throw parents that “expose” their children to McDonald’s into the slammer! It’s called Bloomberg’s Law.

MeatHeadinCA on August 15, 2011 at 9:14 PM

Knucklehead on August 15, 2011 at 9:06 PM

No you shouldn’t, I had a minor skirmish in 2009 with cancer myself but I also drove to school with a guy who had had polio and it was almost unheard of by then. Life is just weird. I’m going for a walk so if you answer me, don’t think I’m being rude if I don’t get right back to you.

Cindy Munford on August 15, 2011 at 9:14 PM

Tell me, Jazz.

If there is a chemical compound that we find can help deter forms of cancer, should the government force children to be vaccinated with it? Where’s the limit?

MadisonConservative on August 15, 2011 at 8:51 PM

That’s a pretty good question. Last I checked, conservatives disagreed with Elena Kagen’s squish on force-fed broccoli. Guess I missed a memo.

Murf76 on August 15, 2011 at 9:14 PM

Maybe there should have been. I wish there had been a stronger push back towards the leftward shift we’ve seen going on for the past 50-100 years. Does that mean that the Tea Party’s somewhat unique appearance on the political stage should be pushed aside and ignored?

MeatHeadinCA on August 15, 2011 at 9:08 PM

No. I can’t argue with that. I just don’t see vaccines as bad things in any context. But I guess the gov’t shouldn’t force you to get them.

stefanite on August 15, 2011 at 9:14 PM

Jazz Shaw on August 15, 2011 at 9:10 PM

They can already “expose” them to polio, measles, mumps, rubella, tetanus, chicken pox and diptheria. why not cancer? What makes cancer different?

alwaysfiredup on August 15, 2011 at 9:14 PM

I had to be vaccinated for grade school. I don’t think there was a choice, but I don’t remember any public uprising over it.

stefanite on August 15, 2011 at 8:59 PM

Maybe there should have been. I wish there had been a stronger push back towards the leftward shift we’ve seen going on for the past 50-100 years. Does that mean that the Tea Party’s somewhat unique appearance on the political stage should be pushed aside and ignored?

MeatHeadinCA on August 15, 2011 at 9:08 PM

Maybe there should have been an uprising over child vaccinations? Really? You know, I think there should have been an uprising over this. I mean we have to be on guard against leftist encroachment on our civil liberties right?

Mike Rathbone on August 15, 2011 at 9:15 PM

Perhaps I’m biased and should remove myself from the discussion.

Knucklehead on August 15, 2011 at 9:06 PM

I’m of the same mind with regard to the subject of polio (caught it when I was six years old – mildly, but still affects me).

OldEnglish on August 15, 2011 at 9:15 PM

Jazz Shaw on August 15, 2011 at 9:10 PM

Okay….

A. I have clearly indicated I want my kids to have it.

B. Multiple commenters have pointed out that parents can already opt out of other vaccines. Why not this one?

C. Care to get your nose back into joint, and research the technical medical aspects you don’t seem to have much grasp of? (i.e., airborne transmission of smallpox vs. sexual transmission of HPV, the fact that Gardasil covers 4 of 200+ types of HPV, etc.)

OR, you COULD keep spouting off about “crimes against humanity” and “the individual rights of parents to expose their daughters to cancer,” if you’d prefer to keep looking like an idiot…

You choose, champ!

cs89 on August 15, 2011 at 9:16 PM

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