Surprise: Senate Banking Committee to probe S&P’s decision to downgrade

posted at 6:35 pm on August 8, 2011 by Allahpundit

Alternate headline: “Feds leave dead fish on S&P’s doorstep.” And if you think this is shady, check out how Italy handled its own threat of a downgrade from S&P. Good lord. What happens if they downgrade Egypt? Does David Beers end up in the cage with Mubarak?

Note to Fitch from the Senate Banking Committee: Choose wisely.

Following S&P’s Friday night decision to reduce the nation’s credit standing from AAA to AA+, the panel has begun gathering information about the downgrade, according to a committee aide. Reuters first reported the committee’s interest in the downgrade.

The unprecedented downgrade of the nation’s debt roiled financial markets Monday, and S&P was subject to fierce criticism from Senate Banking Committee Chairman Tim Johnson (D-S.D.).

“As the financial markets stumble, investors continue to regard Treasury debt as a safe haven in times of economic uncertainty. This irresponsible move by S&P may, however, have spillover effects that tax the American people by increasing interest rates on home loans, credit cards, and car loans, and by increasing the cost of finance for some state and local governments,” he said in a Monday statement. “I am deeply disappointed in S&P’s decision to enter into the game of political punditry.”

No word yet on whether they’ll hold hearings. One minor caveat to this: What if S&P’s decision to downgrade really was shady? Fiscal conservatives spent the weekend defending the agency from leftist attacks out of simple gratitude, I think, that someone somewhere with some real market influence was finally ringing the alarm bell about our insane debt. We have $211 trillion in unfunded liabilities and yet Democrats are set to run on a “hands off my Medicare” platform next year. Don’t shoot the messenger for daring to suggest that this might, perhaps, be unsustainable, n’est-ce pas?

But what if the messenger was prepared to say that it is sustainable if not for their own dopey math error? That is to say, as Erick Erickson puts it, what if Obama’s right about S&P?

S&P, I’m told, began telling some of its clients about the downgrade on Friday morning. That’s why the market was so screwed up on Friday.

By Friday afternoon, the Treasury Department told S&P it had made a $2 trillion math mistake.

But S&P had already told its clients about the downgrade. So it couldn’t walk it back now without a major loss of confidence in its credibility. Could you imagine that conversation? “Hey . . . um . . . Joe. Yeah, Charlie here from S&P. So . . .um . . . we made a $2 trillion math mistake in our downgrade analysis. . . . What’s that? You just lost $500 million in the market because of it? Oh . . . um . . . sorry Joe. Better luck next time.”

So it had to come up with a different reason.

It’s reason? Acrimony in Washington — in other words, nothing to do with the U.S.A.’s ability to pay its debts or financial issues, just typical Washington politics.

It’s possible to believe that the U.S. deserved to be downgraded in the abstract but that the U.S. didn’t deserve to be downgraded according to S&P’s lame criteria, especially if they botched their calculus and went through with the downgrade to protect their reputation. To see just how lame they are, in fact, read Nate Silver’s user-friendly statistical analysis of how S&P rates other sovereign debt. Not only do they perceive genuine default risks more slowly than the market, they’re slow to accurately rate a given country’s default risk when they finally do perceive it. They’re a lagging indicator, in other words — except, oddly, in the case of the U.S., where they’re out in front of the pack in declaring us a credit risk even as investors around the world continue to plow money into treasuries. Very curious. That’s not to say they deserve a congressional investigation, but a little more public attention to how arbitrary the ratings agencies are might stave off the next market panic.

Via News Busters, here’s Scarborough asking Democrats to quit using the tea party as a downgrade pinata. To which Debbie Downer says: No dice. Exit question via NRO’s Andrew Stiles: How can tea partiers be responsible for the downgrade when liberals have spent 48 hours insisting that the downgrade never should have happened?

Blowback

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Comment pages: 1 2

Prior to 1935 there was no SS.
Prior to 1965 there was no Medicare.

If you listen to the likes of Ernie, nobody lived past the age of 28 up until the mid 60s. Or if they did they lived in abject poverty their entire lives.

angryed on August 8, 2011 at 7:29 PM

The whole planet is about to do a dance. Better find the beat and start tapping your foot.
Limerick on August 8, 2011 at 7:25 PM

Or leave the room before the fighting starts.

I’ll listen to a little Jimi in the bunker while things get sorted out on the dance floor.

Bishop on August 8, 2011 at 7:30 PM

I’m 25.

ernesto on August 8, 2011 at 7:07 PM

Heh.

MNHawk on August 8, 2011 at 7:30 PM

For every person you bring up that will be negatively affected, I can bring forward hundreds that are leeching off the system
right2bright on August 8, 2011 at 7:22 PM
1:100 ratio, huh? Let’s get together, you and me, and try to figure this out. For every one person that would be negatively effected by an end to all entitlements, you bring me 100 leeches. We can do this over beers at your favorite pub, or over a few skype sessions. We can then report our preliminary findings here at Hot Air.
ernesto on August 8, 2011 at 7:25 PM

Come to NYC where I just moved. Wouldn’t be too hard to hit your quotas. Oops, I should’ve asked if you wanted to press one for English.

Huckabye-Romney on August 8, 2011 at 7:31 PM

So a janitor who can’t afford cancer treatment is selfish? Good to know.

ernesto on August 8, 2011 at 7:19 PM

Nope, but he’s pretty unlucky to have both cancer and a low paying job. Sucks, huh? If you’re very touched by this hypothetical man/woman/thing’s story, maybe you should voluntarily give him/her/it some of your paycheck to help with his/her/its cancer treatments.

Good Solid B-Plus on August 8, 2011 at 7:32 PM

right2bright on August 8, 2011 at 7:22 PM

I can help you out with that. The welfare office in Minneapolis gets strangely inundated with cars bearing Illinois license plates once a month, you will find plenty of leeches there.

Bishop on August 8, 2011 at 7:33 PM

UnderstandingisPower on August 8, 2011 at 6:46 PM

Right, what’s a trillion or two difference going to make?

Just nitpicking and trying to hide the facts.

bluefox on August 8, 2011 at 7:34 PM

I can help you out with that. The welfare office in Minneapolis gets strangely inundated with cars bearing Illinois license plates once a month, you will find plenty of leeches there.

Bishop on August 8, 2011 at 7:33 PM

Come to California,leecharama here.

sandee on August 8, 2011 at 7:35 PM

Blaming the tea party wasn’t working. Blaming Republicans wasn’t working. So what better way to cast blame away from ones selves, than to have an investigation into a group that did something, against your orders?

capejasmine on August 8, 2011 at 7:35 PM

S&P is full of sh*t, so why not have the Senate make it even more clear?

ernesto on August 8, 2011 at 6:49 PM

In that case, maybe they should investigate you. We all know that you are full of sh*t here at HA, but everyone else would see it more clear.

Sporty1946 on August 8, 2011 at 7:35 PM

Anyone got the Soylent Green recipe?

Limerick on August 8, 2011 at 7:39 PM

And I am deeply disappointed in our politicians getting involved in the game of economic punditry. If they could just learn to balance a budget we wouldn’t have this mess.

ajacksonian on August 8, 2011 at 7:41 PM

So a janitor who can’t afford cancer treatment is selfish? Good to know.

ernesto on August 8, 2011 at 7:19 PM

If he expects me or anyone else to pay for his unfortunate circumstances, then yes. He is greedy.

ButterflyDragon on August 8, 2011 at 7:43 PM

How can tea partiers be responsible for the downgrade when liberals have spent 48 hours insisting that the downgrade never should have happened?

Like any messianic movement, followers will insist that The Facts have no bearing on The Truth.

calbear on August 8, 2011 at 7:43 PM

I’m 25.

ernesto on August 8, 2011 at 7:07 PM

If you’re a conservative at 20 you have no heart. If you’re a liberal at 30 you have no brain. Any day now Ernie, any day now.

angryed on August 8, 2011 at 7:27 PM

I’m 24 and a libertarian. Did I make the cut?

RDE2010 on August 8, 2011 at 7:44 PM

Blaming the tea party wasn’t working. Blaming Republicans wasn’t working. So what better way to cast blame away from ones selves, than to have an investigation into a group that did something, against your orders?

capejasmine on August 8, 2011 at 7:35 PM

Evidently you’ve missed the latest talking points memo from the left:

S&P wouldn’t have downgraded the country if we hadn’t extended the Bush tax cuts.

ButterflyDragon on August 8, 2011 at 7:44 PM

Fine. YOU tell seniors that they’re on their own. It’s no problem for me, I’m 25.

ernesto

That explains more than you know.

BD57 on August 8, 2011 at 7:47 PM

Cindy Munford on August 8, 2011 at 6:57 PM

I think this is another blame game. Anything or anyone that blames them is taken to task.

What I see is that the facts remain: The debt due to the entitlements is still there. Spending is still the issue. It was the issue during the debt ceiling debates and it still is.

What I’d like to know, was the massive cost of the coming Obamacare factored in?

bluefox on August 8, 2011 at 7:48 PM

As a senior, about to be exposed on a hillside, I can still kick the 25yo downhill.

Limerick on August 8, 2011 at 7:49 PM

Right. It’s like people simply cannot see the hilarious charade for what it is. People can’t even concieve of a number like $211 TRILLION. AP and other pundits write about this as if we’re discussing the family budget. It’s a joke. It’s a farce. It’s theft. It’s a constant fleecing of the people until the people have nothing left. Zero. Zilch. Nada. Nein!

j_galt on August 8, 2011 at 6:49 PM

Perhaps the easiest way to convey the scale of $211T is this, the GPP (gross planetary product) for 2007, the latest #’s we have available, was $127T. Thats right, if an uber-wealthy alien from Alfa-Centuri6 decided he was interested in purchasing a class 3 planet for weekend getaways, $211T would not even be in the ballpark of a reasonable price. Let alone for just 1/2 of 1 decent sized continent on said planet.

Or, put another way if you confiscated EVERYONE’S money on planet earth and sold all their assets, converted the proceeds into $’s, you’d barely cover half of what Americans/5% of the earth’s populace owe!

THERE IS NOT ENOUGH WEALTH ON THE ENTIRE FREAKIN GLOBE TO FILL THE HOLE PROGRESSIVES HAVE GOTTEN US INTO!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsx2vdn7gpY

Game over man!

Archimedes on August 8, 2011 at 7:56 PM

Fine. YOU tell seniors that they’re on their own. It’s no problem for me, I’m 25.

ernesto

I have no problem telling seniors that they’re about to take some financial hits. They’ve spent the last 45 years electing people who enabled them – well, tried to, anyway – in avoiding responsibility. Time’s up. They chose to believe there was an unlimited supply of OPM when there was plenty of evidence to the contrary. If they want to argue they were too stupid to know what they were doing all these years, then let them admit it.

Laura Curtis on August 8, 2011 at 7:56 PM

sandee on August 8, 2011 at 7:09 PM

I don’t know about ernesto, but I’ve noticed a few other ‘bots with the talking points. They were all around during the 2007/2008 election cycle. I think they were paid for each reply they got by posting.

Looks like they are back off of “unemployment”, LOL

bluefox on August 8, 2011 at 7:57 PM

S&P could merely point that US debt has been trading as a AA credit ever since the Obama spring budget proposal was renounced by both the Democrat controlled Senate (97-0) and then by the President himself. In other words, they are still a lagging indicator and not a leading one.

MTF on August 8, 2011 at 7:57 PM

As a senior, about to be exposed on a hillside, I can still kick the 25yo downhill.

Limerick on August 8, 2011 at 7:49 PM

Ass over teakettle, no doubt.

Naturally Curly on August 8, 2011 at 7:57 PM

A $Two Trillion mistake in a $211 Trillion Total Debt number is just a rounding error.

franksalterego on August 8, 2011 at 7:59 PM

ernesto on August 8, 2011 at 7:18 PM

Just a FYI, this thread is not about your various comments.

It is people like you that destroy a thread’s topic. Evidently you have no knowledge about the topic, so you change the discussion and make arguments that have no basis in fact.

I see this tactic quite often and it needs to be called out.
It’s one thing to discuss a related topic, but yours are not related at all.

bluefox on August 8, 2011 at 8:04 PM

Huckabye-Romney on August 8, 2011 at 7:31 PM

I live here. East village.

ernesto on August 8, 2011 at 8:04 PM

I live here. East village.
ernesto on August 8, 2011 at 8:04 PM

Ok…look around then. Exorbitant property taxes, sales taxes, tolls, impending fare increases, fed, state, AND city sales tax…what do it get us beside crumbling roads and subpar governmental services?

Huckabye-Romney on August 8, 2011 at 8:09 PM

So, U.S. Treasuries are downgraded, the equities markets tank, and investors flee to the safety of…said downgraded U.S. Treasuries?

Call me cynical, but I’m not seeing this as an intrinsic downgrade of the instruments, but rather one of their issuer, and the economy it seems bent on crippling.

Barnestormer on August 8, 2011 at 8:10 PM

Lets see….yep, I was too stupid to cover my future. Now my assistance might be gone and lo and behold I could croak. Could being the operative word. Just like I could have died all those years past. Drowned, shot, hit over the head, bad toaster accident, cosmic rays, misplaced alien probe. Sure I’d like the check but at the expense of of what? My children slaving? Not a hard choice to make.

Limerick on August 8, 2011 at 8:10 PM

Knucklehead on August 8, 2011 at 6:59 PM

Another thread dismantled. I’m on several blogs/forums and the rule is don’t feed the trolls. Guess that doesn’t work here:-)

bluefox on August 8, 2011 at 8:12 PM

I’ll listen to a little Jimi in the bunker while things get sorted out on the dance floor.

Bishop on August 8, 2011 at 7:30 PM

I’m getting damned tired of hearing about your bunker.

How much to get a seat in the corner???

BigWyo on August 8, 2011 at 8:14 PM

Huckabye-Romney on August 8, 2011 at 8:09 PM

The smug, self satisfaction one gets from living in the center of the universe????

BigWyo on August 8, 2011 at 8:16 PM

Corner seat costs $5,000 in gold or ammunition.

Bishop on August 8, 2011 at 8:17 PM

What will you take in terms of cheese????

BigWyo on August 8, 2011 at 8:21 PM

Blaming the tea party wasn’t working. Blaming Republicans wasn’t working. So what better way to cast blame away from ones selves, than to have an investigation into a group that did something, against your orders?

capejasmine on August 8, 2011 at 7:35 PM

Down the line…blow the election, have a Republican win, everything still sucks or gets worse. The Marxists accomplish their goals but take away the focal point of Conservative/TEA Party anger (Obama).

Like it or not, Obama’s got many of us involved in politics who otherwise wouldn’t and talking/thinking about the guy many hours of the day. Negative psychology, but it worked.

Dr. ZhivBlago on August 8, 2011 at 8:22 PM

I think Erickson is wrong here. I saw the head of s&p on cnbc today with Maria B. and she was hitting pretty hard with stuff.

The short story is that they are very worried about the 20T of debt that we are going to have on our books soon. She quizzed him about the MBS stuff..to which I say “once burned, twice shy”. A lot of the toxic stuff was “backed” by AAA Freddie et al. because people assumed that the government would step in. Well? They were right. That toxic stuff was bought by the FED. A lot of people got their 100 cents on the dollar.

Ok, so S&P learned something. Ponzi scheme even as big as the US can come to an end. So they said let’s take a cold hard look.

There’s actually a bigger issue which requires s&P to be proactive. The US is the huge elephant in the room. If we go belly up, there will be no bailouts. We are not Belgium. If they are a little late on small countries…well, no biggie. If the miss this one…the whole world goes off the cliff.

I know barry is a little miffed, and Timmy is spitting nails…but you, this is the big time guys. Time for serious people.

r keller on August 8, 2011 at 8:24 PM

Corner seat costs $5,000 in gold or ammunition.

Bishop on August 8, 2011 at 8:17 PM

I’ll give ya half of my 4k rounds of 458 WinMag, and throw in an extra Ruger No.1 chambered in that round. As long as the bunker isn’t in an area of the country where it’s currently 100+ degrees!

BadMojo on August 8, 2011 at 8:40 PM

As long as the bunker isn’t in an area of the country where it’s currently 100+ degrees!

BadMojo on August 8, 2011 at 8:40 PM

Don’t fret. Knowing Bishop he has figured out a way to tap into Al’s air conditioning vents.

Limerick on August 8, 2011 at 8:50 PM

I’m still waiting for the investigation into the AAA rating for Lehmann, Bear Stearns, and Ireland. IRELAND was given a AAA rating until 2009, for crying out loud! IRELAND!

ernesto on August 8, 2011 at 6:49 PM

While you’re at it throw in Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. Should be..interesting.

Fighton03 on August 8, 2011 at 9:15 PM

I’m 24 and a libertarian. Did I make the cut?

RDE2010 on August 8, 2011 at 7:44 PM

There may be hope for the future.

Fighton03 on August 8, 2011 at 9:17 PM

As a senior, about to be exposed on a hillside, I can still kick the 25yo downhill.

Limerick on August 8, 2011 at 7:49 PM

Don’t forget to take his lunch money first.

Fighton03 on August 8, 2011 at 9:19 PM

How about rolling back all government salaries and perks and bennies to Clinton Era levels?

And cut all programs and entitlements added since then, too.

profitsbeard on August 8, 2011 at 9:23 PM

What the govt should really be doing is looking for insider trading which was obviously going on Thursday.

clement on August 8, 2011 at 9:34 PM

Great, the Senators can make absolute fools of themselves.

SC.Charlie on August 8, 2011 at 10:02 PM

What the govt should really be doing is looking for insider trading which was obviously going on Thursday.

clement on August 8, 2011 at 9:34 PM

Anyone care to bet just how much George Soros (the man who “broke the Bank of England”) cleared?

Laura Curtis on August 8, 2011 at 10:29 PM

Anyone care to bet just how much George Soros (the man who “broke the Bank of England”) cleared?

Laura Curtis on August 8, 2011 at 10:29 PM

How did that SOB get out of being charged at Nuremberg?

slickwillie2001 on August 8, 2011 at 11:05 PM

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