On second thought, looks like the Super Committee can raise taxes

posted at 7:15 pm on August 1, 2011 by Allahpundit

Remember yesterday’s GOP talking point about how “baseline budgeting” would make it virtually impossible for the Committee to impose tax hikes? Supposedly, because CBO is required to assume that the Bush tax cuts will lapse next year, the $3.5 trillion in new revenue that will come from that lapse is already part of the Committee’s “baseline.” In order for them to hit their target of $1.5 trillion in additional savings, they’d have to recommend tax hikes above and beyond that $3.5 trillion. Which, with an election coming up, they surely aren’t going to do.

Just one problem: None of it is true. Or at least, none of it is in the bill. Tapper reports:

One bottom line of this debate is that it seems that the baseline the Super-Committee uses will also be a point of contention.

Experts on the CBO scoring process say Republicans are making a flimsy argument. There’s nothing in the legislation that would prevent the Super-Committee from proposing revenue increases. Nothing. And anyone in Congress can ask for alternative benchmarks.

The truth is the CBO is often called to score bills in different ways, and anyone on the Super-Committee could certainly request that it be done in a certain way with any assumptions…

Rep. Paul Ryan, R-Wisc., for instance, requested that CBO score his “Roadmap” against an “alternative fiscal scenario” that assumed extension — not expiration — of the Bush tax cuts. “As you requested, the analysis in this letter compares the Roadmap with the alternative fiscal scenario…” the CBO wrote to Ryan.

Former Bush econ advisor Keith Hennessey seems to think that the baseline will govern Committee action on tax rates but won’t affect their ability to raise taxes through other means, like closing loopholes. Assuming Tapper’s correct, though, not only will the Committee spend the next three months bickering about where to find savings, they’ll be bickering about what standard should be used to measure whether a new spending cut or revenue-raiser qualifies as a “savings” in the first place. Which means the GOP is caught between tax increases from the Super Committee, the expiration of the Bush tax cuts next year if the Committee does nothing about revenues, and sharp cuts to defense if Congress doesn’t enact the Committee’s recommendations. How sharp? Rich Lowry:

Just talked to a defense expert. This is how he understands the deal, and it sounds pretty hair-raising: In the first tranche, it freezes defense for fiscal year ’12 ($23 billion below the Ryan budget), and then freezes it for the next ten years. By contrast, the original Boehner proposal had increased spending for defense in fiscal ’12 and ’13. The first tranche basically bakes into the cake President Obama’s proposal for $400 billion in defense cuts over twelve years. Then, there’s the 50/50 trigger for the second tranche if the committee doesn’t do anything. That could be another $500 billion beginning in fiscal year ’13. Overall, it could be a 12–20 percent cut in the defense budget over time, which will likely have to come out of personnel, procurement, and training. In their wisdom, congressional negotiators apparently decided over the weekend that the next ten years will be marked by no significant military challenges to the United States or our allies.

The defense cuts are so transparently a sop to the left in lieu of including tax triggers in the bill that it’s almost hard for me to take them seriously. They are serious, to be sure, insofar as they’ll affect readiness, but if a significant military challenge does arise, Obama and his caucus will fold like an accordion when the GOP pounds the table and demands that the cuts be rescinded. The trigger guarantees that we’ll be less prepared for that challenge than we otherwise would have been, but don’t forget that (a) half of the Super Committee will be Republicans looking for ways to head off the defense cuts, (b) there’s already some leeway built into the definition of “defense” in the bill so that “defense” cuts won’t necessarily fall entirely on the military (no more TSA, maybe?), and (c) any automatic cuts to defense via the trigger will be reduced by the amount of total cuts agreed on by the Committee and ratified by Congress. E.g., if the Committee manages to agree on $1.2 trillion in savings instead of $1.5 trillion and Congress approves it, only the $300 billion gap would implicate defense as part of across-the-board discretionary cuts. And needless to say, if Republicans take back the Senate next year and succeed in ousting The One, all of this will change. That’s the best way to understand the bill, I think — chiefly as an attempt to set a new baseline politically and then to punt, which may help explain why even Buck McKeon is willing to vote for this thing. Depressing, but that’s what you get when you share power with a party that wants entitlements to be sacrosanct until the day the budget collapses from trying to prop them up.

Here’s video from National Journal of protesters screeching in the gallery today, “Boehner, get off it, it’s time to tax corporate profits” and “Hey Boehner, get a clue, it’s about revenue.”

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They are ALWAYS in an election cycle, always, and those pukes are voting with that in mind rather than us.

Bishop on August 1, 2011 at 8:19 PM

A point lost on far too many, I’m afraid…

But where oh where would the drug cartels get their guns?

Chip on August 1, 2011 at 8:20 PM

“Foreign Aid” packages…

SuperCool on August 1, 2011 at 8:24 PM

Our government’s spending is like a runaway train with no end in sight. Without the Tea Party the damage could’ve been much greater than what was passed. The roaring train hit a 18 wheeler the Tea Party put on the tracks. It only slowed train down a little, but the train definitely knows they’re there. This is a social war and today was just a battle. You have to win the battles to win the war. The GOP doesn’t even know they are the third party now. Even some of the Tea Party caved for that exact reason. Flush the RINOs in 2012 should be the battle cry.

volsense on August 1, 2011 at 8:25 PM

The hell with the GOP.

I’m voting third party and never looking back.

fossten on August 1, 2011 at 8:17 PM

Perhaps you should calm down a little, pour yourself a stiff drink and chill out.

This whole thing has been an exhausting exercise and a little quiet contemplation will do you some good.

Chip on August 1, 2011 at 8:26 PM

Perhaps you should calm down a little, pour yourself a stiff drink and chill out.

This whole thing has been an exhausting exercise and a little quiet contemplation will do you some good.

Chip on August 1, 2011 at 8:26 PM

I’m perfectly calm, thanks Mr. Condescension.

The GOP has proven that they cannot be trusted.

Not only am I done voting for them, but I’m going to actively oppose them at every opportunity.

Here’s hoping Palin runs third party after this.

fossten on August 1, 2011 at 8:28 PM

And the Democrats thank you for your efforts in helping elect them.

Good Lt on August 1, 2011 at 8:23 PM

I guarantee they’re more grateful to jagoffs like you who slice and dice the Tea Party.

And anyway, there is no difference between the two parties.

So who cares.

fossten on August 1, 2011 at 8:29 PM

Watching you devolve into a pile of swearing freakout sauce over this latest display of fail by the clowns in Washington, though, is just damned entertaining.

Good Lt on August 1, 2011 at 8:21 PM

Watching you try to spin your elation into some sort of concern trollism is pathetic.

fossten on August 1, 2011 at 8:29 PM

fossten on August 1, 2011 at 8:28 PM

That isn’t Condescension.

You have some valid points, but now is not the time to be making declarative statements like that.

Chip on August 1, 2011 at 8:30 PM

Hopefully, Palin will take our “thought leaders” to the woodshed in about 1.5 hrs while appearing on Greta…

Gohawgs on August 1, 2011 at 8:32 PM

That isn’t Condescension.

You have some valid points, but now is not the time to be making declarative statements like that.

Chip on August 1, 2011 at 8:30 PM

“Shut up,” he explained.

Thanks for your ‘concern.’

I’ll live my life the way I please, thanks.

And I guarantee I’m not the only ‘former’ GOPer after today’s events.

They will find out.

2006 will seem like a moral victory compared to what they’re headed for.

fossten on August 1, 2011 at 8:33 PM

Why does everyone most continue to act surprised when the details emerge and the details “conflict” with what our “thought leaders” and the dems say?…

Neither Party, neither “leadership team” is following what most people consider to be normal Congressional procedures. Bills aren’t being crafted in open committees, voted on by those committees, being voted on by the full “Body”, sent to the other “Body”, not going before a conference committee, before being sent to the POTUS for his signature.

“Deals” are being crafted by a select few, away from any cameras, away from scrutiny before being voted on in the dead of night…

And it’s not just the dems doing these things…

Gohawgs on August 1, 2011 at 8:14 PM

Yes. Its third and long and GoHawgs hits a grand-slam from the blue-line.

Seriously, excellent post.

This has been going on for quite some time and by the inculcating power of repetition this closed committee behavior is no longer aberrant in their eyes. I guess we are supposed to ignore that man behind the curtain and bow to the all powerful Oz.

Geochelone on August 1, 2011 at 8:34 PM

Chip on August 1, 2011 at 8:30 PM

One more thing:

We elected the GOP, fought for them, spent money putting them in power, for ONE reason: To oppose the Democrats.

Not only did they NOT oppose the Democrats, but they also cooked up back room deals JUST LIKE THE DEMOCRATS, and to top it off, they called us names for being upset about it.

“Let me be clear.”

F*CK THE GOP.

fossten on August 1, 2011 at 8:35 PM

fossten on August 1, 2011 at 8:33 PM

This is just some friendly advice, you can stow the hostility.

Chip on August 1, 2011 at 8:37 PM

fossten on August 1, 2011 at 8:12 PM

Putting that economics degree to work are you? Oh, that’s right, you took economics in the 8th grade, right after constitutional law…
Why don’t you wait a few days, let things sort themselves out, and not freak out about the latest and baddest rumor…I am sure in election year, everyone is going to want to raise taxes.
Assuming anyone really knows how it will be done.

Experts on the CBO scoring process

Now you tell us, oh great one of many hats and no sense, tell us who these “experts” were, like the NYT “experts”? The interns?
Please, I will wait up for your list of “experts”…

right2bright on August 1, 2011 at 8:37 PM

the all powerful Oz.

Geochelone on August 1, 2011 at 8:34 PM

Girl power…

Gohawgs on August 1, 2011 at 8:38 PM

Freddy on August 1, 2011 at 8:09 PM

Coburn???

Southernblogger on August 1, 2011 at 8:14 PM

Yep. Mr, I torpedoed Cut, Cap, and Balance to push a bill with trillions in tax hikes! He is leaving and cannot be trusted to NOT raise taxes.

Freddy on August 1, 2011 at 8:38 PM

And I guarantee I’m not the only ‘former’ GOPer after today’s events.

fossten on August 1, 2011 at 8:33 PM

Good riddance, you aren’t exactly the quality of person we need to help us change history, and run the country.
Now, be sure and tell us who those “experts” are, that we we will know that you fully understand what you are talking about, and not just picking up on some internet post.

right2bright on August 1, 2011 at 8:40 PM

fossten on August 1, 2011 at 8:35 PM

Clean up and diaper change on aisle 2. Chill out dude.You act paranoid or something.

Southernblogger on August 1, 2011 at 8:41 PM

Yes. Its third and long and GoHawgs hits a grand-slam from the blue-line.

Geo, that was hilarious… made me think of Dodgeball

underground on August 1, 2011 at 8:41 PM

Good riddance, you aren’t exactly the quality of person we need to help us change history, and run the country.
Now, be sure and tell us who those “experts” are, that we we will know that you fully understand what you are talking about, and not just picking up on some internet post.

right2bright on August 1, 2011 at 8:40 PM

I don’t know what you’re referring to.

I never made mention of CBO experts.

Lay off the crack pipe while posting, champ.

fossten on August 1, 2011 at 8:41 PM

Chip on August 1, 2011 at 8:30 PM

One more thing:

We elected the GOP, fought for them, spent money putting them in power, for ONE reason: To oppose the Democrats

.

Yes, we did.

Not only did they NOT oppose the Democrats, but they also cooked up back room deals JUST LIKE THE DEMOCRATS, and to top it off, they called us names for being upset about it.

I believe only McSenile did that to a greater extend – calling us Hobbits and all.

“Let me be clear.”

F*CK THE GOP.

fossten on August 1, 2011 at 8:35 PM

Let me be clear, I’m not arguing for them here, I’m am merely suggesting that you calm down a bit – it’ll be better for your health in the long run.

Chip on August 1, 2011 at 8:41 PM

Clean up and diaper change on aisle 2. Chill out dude.You act paranoid or something.

Southernblogger on August 1, 2011 at 8:41 PM

Yes yes, everything’s fine, these aren’t the spending cuts you’re looking for.

Man you ‘moderates’ are so brave and delusional.

fossten on August 1, 2011 at 8:42 PM

Let me be clear, I’m not arguing for them here, I’m am merely suggesting that you calm down a bit – it’ll be better for your health in the long run.

Chip on August 1, 2011 at 8:41 PM

You don’t know me well enough to make that statement or to fully judge my state of mind over the internet.

You’re just being condescending whilst polishing your concern e-peen.

fossten on August 1, 2011 at 8:43 PM

Help us, Sarah Palin, you’re our only hope!

SouthernGent on August 1, 2011 at 8:43 PM

Freddy on August 1, 2011 at 8:38 PM

As much as it sucks, taxes are going to have to go up, and everybody on both sides have to face cuts. I am not big on Coburn over the Ensign affair, but he is not a tax and spender.

Southernblogger on August 1, 2011 at 8:44 PM

As much as it sucks, taxes are going to have to go up, and everybody on both sides have to face cuts. I am not big on Coburn over the Ensign affair, but he is not a tax and spender.

Southernblogger on August 1, 2011 at 8:44 PM

Yeah they will have to go up now, thanks to your fellow traveller RINOs in the GOP who sold us down the river.

Wear that medal proudly, champ.

fossten on August 1, 2011 at 8:45 PM

Clean up and diaper change on aisle 2. Chill out dude.You act paranoid or something.

Southernblogger on August 1, 2011 at 8:41 PM

Don’t be a bad winner, troll! You got what you wanted, another step towards the left by the GOP.

bluemarlin on August 1, 2011 at 8:46 PM

Taxes do not have to go up IF spending cuts are implemented…

Gohawgs on August 1, 2011 at 8:46 PM

As in…implemented NOW, not over 10 years…maybe

Gohawgs on August 1, 2011 at 8:47 PM

fossten on August 1, 2011 at 8:45 PM

States do it as necessary to make budgets work. You cannot go 14 T in the hole and seriously believe that people wont have to pony up.

Southernblogger on August 1, 2011 at 8:49 PM

I don’t know what you’re referring to.

I never made mention of CBO experts.

Lay off the crack pipe while posting, champ.

fossten on August 1, 2011 at 8:41 PM

Sorry thought you were posting on this blog, the one that has the quote I mentioned, and the one where you were upset because you think they can raise taxes, according to “experts”.
Read the blog you are on pal…you are commenting on something that unnamed experts claim.
You have taken up the cause, now name the experts…instead you sit there, typing and duhhhhh!!
This is what your brilliant analytical mind didn’t read, can’t read, or whatever…

One bottom line of this debate is that it seems that the baseline the Super-Committee uses will also be a point of contention.

Experts on the CBO scoring process say Republicans are making a flimsy argument. There’s nothing in the legislation that would prevent the Super-Committee from proposing revenue increases. Nothing. And anyone in Congress can ask for alternative benchmarks.

See where they say they can now raise taxes, not go down a couple of lines and see the unnamed “experts”….there you go sparky, now you have the essence of this blog.
Now go to the top of the page and see where it says this:

On second thought, looks like the Super Committee can raise taxes

See now, the blog is about unnamed experts stating that the Super Committee can raise taxes….wow, this is like talking to a 8, no 6 year old. (committee is a group of people who decide things).

right2bright on August 1, 2011 at 8:49 PM

As much as it sucks, taxes are going to have to go up, and everybody on both sides have to face cuts. I am not big on Coburn over the Ensign affair, but he is not a tax and spender.

Southernblogger on August 1, 2011 at 8:44 PM

I am curious, I thought you have been telling us that there would be no tax hikes and that we have to take the deal we can get as we only have one house. Now you are saying taxes will HAVE to go up!

bluemarlin on August 1, 2011 at 8:49 PM

Chip on August 1, 2011 at 8:41 PM

You don’t know me well enough to make that statement or to fully judge my state of mind over the internet.

fossten on August 1, 2011 at 8:43 PM

Hey, that’s a valid point, but from were I’m sitting you come off as overly upset.

Perhaps justifiably so, but if that is the case, it’s in you best interest to calm down some.

Chip on August 1, 2011 at 8:50 PM

fossten on August 1, 2011 at 8:28 PM

I hear you. And from a game theory perspective I think some saber rattling is warranted. The third party “threat” can be an effective ploy when used tactfully and tactically.

Good idea to keep them guessing for there is no proof that any of us will follow through with the threat;
BUT YOU NEVER KNOW. And therein lies its beauty.

Geochelone on August 1, 2011 at 8:52 PM

We elected the GOP, fought for them, spent money putting them in power, for ONE reason: To oppose the Democrats.

Not only did they NOT oppose the Democrats, but they also cooked up back room deals JUST LIKE THE DEMOCRATS, and to top it off, they called us names for being upset about it.

“Let me be clear.”

F*CK THE GOP.

fossten on August 1, 2011 at 8:35 PM

So you did alot of campaigning for a candidate? Donated money to a Tea Party candidate? Spent time volunteering for a candidate? Worked hard to get someone elected did you?
Oh and if you think that a third party won’t operate just like the two big ones you are naive.

Deanna on August 1, 2011 at 8:52 PM

Some of you folks are clueless. We need massive spending cuts and increased taxes to get back to even. I know some of you have this moronic notion about just cutting all entitlement programs, but that is not where America is so you are bellowing at the breeze.

Southernblogger on August 1, 2011 at 8:53 PM

Perhaps justifiably so, but if that is the case, it’s in you best interest to calm down some.

Chip on August 1, 2011 at 8:50 PM

I second that idea. There’s no point in getting all riled up; you couldn’t get through the heads of the GOPtards with an Abrams main battle tank.

Uncle Sams Nephew on August 1, 2011 at 8:55 PM

bluemarlin on August 1, 2011 at 8:49 PM

I never said no new taxes that I recall.Yes, we are limited in power.

Southernblogger on August 1, 2011 at 8:57 PM

Southernblogger on August 1, 2011 at 8:53 PM

Speaking of bellowing, your buddy was in town today. Along with BillyJeff and Rosalyn Carter…

Gohawgs on August 1, 2011 at 8:57 PM

Some of you folks are clueless. We need massive spending cuts and increased taxes to get back to even. I know some of you have this moronic notion about just cutting all entitlement programs, but that is not where America is so you are bellowing at the breeze.

Southernblogger on August 1, 2011 at 8:53 PM

And when those higher taxes push the Obama Recession even deeper we’re going to have to what to cover the shortfall?

That’s it Girls and boys! Raise taxes!

And when those new taxes make the Obama Depression even worse, and we don’t have the money to cover the Socials security cheques, what do we do them?

Right again girls and boys – Raise taxes yet again!

Chip on August 1, 2011 at 9:01 PM

Now if they can just take away our guns……….

dmann on August 1, 2011 at 9:01 PM

Uncle Sams Nephew on August 1, 2011 at 8:55 PM

Go the F….k away.

Chip on August 1, 2011 at 9:02 PM

As much as it sucks, taxes are going to have to go up, and everybody on both sides have to face cuts.

Southernblogger on August 1, 2011 at 8:44 PM

Not really. Change the tax code to a flat tax and close all loop holes so every body has a stake in the game or better yet scrap the IRS and go to a national sales tax. I don’t know what the underground economy is, but, I bet it is trillions. Everyone spends money no matter how they earn it.

derft on August 1, 2011 at 9:05 PM

Chip on August 1, 2011 at 9:01 PM

It wont be immediate, and they need to, but won’t do it smart. They need to end EIC, close all loopholes and put everybody in the game. There are not enough rich to fix the thing.

Southernblogger on August 1, 2011 at 9:08 PM

Go the F….k away.

Buffalo Chip on August 1, 2011 at 9:02 PM

Come F*cking make me.

Uncle Sams Nephew on August 1, 2011 at 9:09 PM

derft on August 1, 2011 at 9:05 PM

That is basically what I said in my last post before seeing your’s. I guarantee the “cash only crowd” could help bring balance quick.

Southernblogger on August 1, 2011 at 9:11 PM

Not really. Change the tax code to a flat tax and close all loop holes so every body has a stake in the game or better yet scrap the IRS and go to a national sales tax.

derft on August 1, 2011 at 9:05 PM

This would not only save unnecessary headache for everyone from teenagers at burger-flipping jobs to CEO’s, but stimulate the economy from the day it was enacted. The cost-of-compliance for our tax system is so awful it’s almost as bad as paying the taxes themselves!

Uncle Sams Nephew on August 1, 2011 at 9:11 PM

So you did alot of campaigning for a candidate? Donated money to a Tea Party candidate? Spent time volunteering for a candidate? Worked hard to get someone elected did you?
Oh and if you think that a third party won’t operate just like the two big ones you are naive.

Deanna on August 1, 2011 at 8:52 PM

Yeah, those that form up a third party will be double-special-careful to vet the candidates more fully than Republicans do.

slickwillie2001 on August 1, 2011 at 9:11 PM

Gohawgs on August 1, 2011 at 8:57 PM

Who? Huck? He is a fair taxer.

Southernblogger on August 1, 2011 at 9:12 PM

Uncle Sams Nephew on August 1, 2011 at 9:09 PM

Wow, it took you 7 minutes to think of that Bon mot?

Chip on August 1, 2011 at 9:12 PM

Come F*cking make me.

Uncle Sams Nephew on August 1, 2011 at 9:09 PM

Climb the monkey bars first.

Key West Reader on August 1, 2011 at 9:14 PM

Climb the monkey bars first.

Key West Reader on August 1, 2011 at 9:14 PM

Not unless the zookeeper cleans Chip’s cage first.

Uncle Sams Nephew on August 1, 2011 at 9:15 PM

Southernblogger on August 1, 2011 at 9:08 PM

Problem is, they don’t want to end EIC, close the loopholes and put everybody in the game. And they foolishly think that there are enough rich to pull this off.

Chip on August 1, 2011 at 9:15 PM

Not unless the zookeeper cleans Chip’s cage first.

Uncle Sams Nephew on August 1, 2011 at 9:15 PM

You remind me of a girl I used to know at PS 213.

Key West Reader on August 1, 2011 at 9:16 PM

Problem is, they don’t want to end EIC, close the loopholes and put everybody in the game.

Chip on August 1, 2011 at 9:15 PM

Don’t forget that they BENEFIT from all the loopholes. Neither you nor I can afford a team of Harvard lawyers to find them, or hide money in overseas accounts.

I actually looked into the latter option once out of sheer curiosity. Long story short, unless you’re a millionaire at least, don’t bother.

Uncle Sams Nephew on August 1, 2011 at 9:18 PM

Not really. Change the tax code to a flat tax and close all loop holes so every body has a stake in the game or better yet scrap the IRS and go to a national sales tax.

derft on August 1, 2011 at 9:05 PM

This would not only save unnecessary headache for everyone from teenagers at burger-flipping jobs to CEO’s, but stimulate the economy from the day it was enacted. The cost-of-compliance for our tax system is so awful it’s almost as bad as paying the taxes themselves!

Uncle Sams Nephew on August 1, 2011 at 9:11 PM

So what’s your point?

Chip on August 1, 2011 at 9:18 PM

Chip on August 1, 2011 at 9:15 PM

Which is why we have to get conservatives elected. The Tea Party doesn’t end when an R gains office.

Southernblogger on August 1, 2011 at 9:18 PM

Problem is, they don’t want to end EIC, close the loopholes and put everybody in the game. And they foolishly think that there are enough rich to pull this off.

Chip on August 1, 2011 at 9:15 PM

Ahh, yes. The “earned income tax credit”.

The taxpayers will reward you for actually getting your fatass out of bed in the morning, dressing your children and getting them off to school.

/I know I expect to be paid for getting MY children up and out of bed, feeding them breakfast and getting them to school on time. But, alas. I get nothing but personal satisfaction for doing my duty as a parent in the relentless pursuit of the success of my children.

Key West Reader on August 1, 2011 at 9:19 PM

Problem is, they don’t want to end EIC, close the loopholes and put everybody in the game.

Chip on August 1, 2011 at 9:15 PM

Don’t forget that they BENEFIT from all the loopholes.

Uncle Sams Nephew on August 1, 2011 at 9:18 PM

You mean the Democrats?

Chip on August 1, 2011 at 9:20 PM

So what’s your point?

Chip on August 1, 2011 at 9:18 PM

You really don’t get it?

Simple tax systems don’t require insane amounts of preparation for even the average person (as they do now), or cost so much to comply with.

The more Byzantine the system, the more time and money gets spent merely trying not to unintentionally break the rules. It makes criminals out of people who want nothing more than to just pay their dues and go on with life!

Uncle Sams Nephew on August 1, 2011 at 9:21 PM

Chip on August 1, 2011 at 9:18 PM

Have you ever bothered to argue with an idiot before?

If so, carry on. If not, why bother.

The leftists are out in force. They know they have less than 6 months to implement their agenda.

I’ll laugh as they try.

Key West Reader on August 1, 2011 at 9:22 PM

You mean the Democrats?

Chip on August 1, 2011 at 9:20 PM

Corrupt politicians and rich people of all stripes.

Uncle Sams Nephew on August 1, 2011 at 9:22 PM

Ahh, yes. The “earned income tax credit”.

The taxpayers will reward you for actually getting your fatass out of bed in the morning, dressing your children and getting them off to school.

/I know I expect to be paid for getting MY children up and out of bed, feeding them breakfast and getting them to school on time. But, alas. I get nothing but personal satisfaction for doing my duty as a parent in the relentless pursuit of the success of my children.

Key West Reader on August 1, 2011 at 9:19 PM

Reward a behavior, you get more of it.

Punish a behavior you get less of it.

Simple operant conditioning.

Perhaps we doing that wrong.

Chip on August 1, 2011 at 9:23 PM

Corrupt politicians and rich people of all stripes.

Uncle Sams Nephew on August 1, 2011 at 9:22 PM

What about Black ones, like me?

Key West Reader on August 1, 2011 at 9:23 PM

The leftists are out in force. They know they have less than 6 months to implement their agenda.

I’ll laugh as they try.

Key West Reader on August 1, 2011 at 9:22 PM

Unless we can figure out a winning strategy ASAP, they’re going to be doing the laughing. Much more damage and the 2012 elections may become pointless.

Uncle Sams Nephew on August 1, 2011 at 9:24 PM

What about Black ones, like me?

Key West Reader on August 1, 2011 at 9:23 PM

I’ll assume you aren’t corrupt and say “no.”

Uncle Sams Nephew on August 1, 2011 at 9:24 PM

Uncle Sams Nephew on August 1, 2011 at 9:22 PM

Whassa matta wit you? You never seen a black woman succeed?

Key West Reader on August 1, 2011 at 9:25 PM

I’ll assume you aren’t corrupt and say “no.”

Uncle Sams Nephew on August 1, 2011 at 9:24 PM

Oh, for crying out loud. Go back to the WH and cry. You are done here. Sheesh. Next time you get so loud, figure out who you dealing with. Putz.

Key West Reader on August 1, 2011 at 9:27 PM

Thread stopped.

Key West Reader on August 1, 2011 at 9:27 PM

Chip on August 1, 2011 at 9:18 PM

Have you ever bothered to argue with an idiot before?

If so, carry on. If not, why bother.

The leftists are out in force. They know they have less than 6 months to implement their agenda.

I’ll laugh as they try.

Key West Reader on August 1, 2011 at 9:22 PM

Yes, I Hope and pray you are correct on that point.

Just as they had to Rahm Unconstitutional Obamacare through before people learned what was in it, they seem to want to do as much damage as they can to this great country before the people remember why you don’t put Democrats in charge.

Chip on August 1, 2011 at 9:29 PM

Some of you folks are clueless. We need massive spending cuts and increased taxes to get back to even. I know some of you have this moronic notion about just cutting all entitlement programs, but that is not where America is so you are bellowing at the breeze.

Southernblogger on August 1, 2011 at 8:53 PM

Here’s a novel idea for progolodytes like yourself:

Cut taxes, encourage businesses to expand and hire (that’ll cut entitlement spending right there by getting people on “funempolyment” OF of the dole, in case the concept’s too remote for you to grasp) and, rather than increasing taxes on the people with jobs, you’ll actually expand the damn tax base because you’ll be collecting taxes from more people, thereby eliminating the need to raise taxes on the people who are already overtaxed.

Otherwise, all you’re doing is furthering the “Real Two Americas” in which you have one America (The Tax Burdened) and the second America (the parasites) and you get a very ugly end result: The parasites are already resentful (being convinced they’re somehow “victims”) but when the first America, the one paying for the parasites gets resentful (and we already are, now we’re just talking a matter of degrees of intensity) there will eventually be a backlash by that first America (the overtaxed) against the parasites and their co-dependent enablers (The Ruling Class).

I know this is an alien concept to a progressive, but government isn’t the answer or solution to any problem, more often than not, it is the root cause of the problem.

People will only take so much before they realize the time for talking is over, because there is no one in the backrooms who speaks for them.

When that happens, you can talk until you’re blue in the face, call them names, try to bully them, promise them everything they ask for and none of it will stem the avalanche because they no longer believe a damn thing you say, because they’ve no reason to from years and years of experience.

So, if your solution is to raise taxes, in the midst of a recession at that, all your doing is playing with matches in the powder house.

SuperCool on August 1, 2011 at 9:30 PM

Oh, for crying out loud. Go back to the WH and cry.

Go back to the playground at PatheticSchool 213 and cry.

Next time you get so loud, figure out who you dealing with. Putz.

Key West Reader on August 1, 2011 at 9:27 PM

An internet loudmouth, that’s who I’m dealing with. Dumb@ss.

Uncle Sams Nephew on August 1, 2011 at 9:31 PM

Whassa matta wit you? You never seen a black woman succeed?

Key West Reader on August 1, 2011 at 9:25 PM

Succeed in finding her way to the southern most point in America?…

Gohawgs on August 1, 2011 at 9:38 PM

SuperCool on August 1, 2011 at 9:30 PM

A day late and dollar short, but thanks for the input.

Southernblogger on August 1, 2011 at 9:38 PM

Cut taxes, encourage businesses to expand and hire (that’ll cut entitlement spending right there by getting people on “funempolyment” OF of the dole, in case the concept’s too remote for you to grasp) and, rather than increasing taxes on the people with jobs, you’ll actually expand the damn tax base because you’ll be collecting taxes from more people, thereby eliminating the need to raise taxes on the people who are already overtaxed.

SuperCool on August 1, 2011 at 9:30 PM

That is at the core of what Ronald Reagan did and it worked. As opposed to in essence redistributing the wealth or ‘Spreading the wealth around’ In the words of Obama.

That didn’t work, hence we have the Obama Recession.

Chip on August 1, 2011 at 9:41 PM

SuperCool on August 1, 2011 at 9:30 PM

Great post. I still want to change the tax structure.

derft on August 1, 2011 at 9:42 PM

right2bright on August 1, 2011 at 8:49 PM

You’re completely incoherent, skippy.

fossten on August 1, 2011 at 9:51 PM

SuperCool on August 1, 2011 at 9:30 PM

Great post!

A day late and dollar short, but thanks for the input.

Southernblogger on August 1, 2011 at 9:38 PM

No, that is what is happening now, the people have had it and raising taxes would be idiotic from a financial standpoint and from reading the mood of a populace wrongly!

bluemarlin on August 1, 2011 at 9:51 PM

bluemarlin on August 1, 2011 at 9:51 PM

I was being sarcastic. I do believe in going to a Fair Tax where everybody pays. The rest of just taxes or just cuts is crazy talk.

Southernblogger on August 1, 2011 at 9:54 PM

Oh, for crying out loud. Go back to the WH and cry.

Go back to the playground at PatheticSchool

213 and cry.

Next time you get so loud, figure out who you dealing with. Putz.

Key West Reader on August 1, 2011 at 9:27 PM

An internet loudmouth, that’s who I’m dealing with. Dumb@ss.

Uncle Sams Nephew on August 1, 2011 at 9:31 PM

Really, that is your reply? I am not sure your Uncle should be letting you use his computer?

bluemarlin on August 1, 2011 at 9:57 PM

In a poll released on August 1st, 2011, gallup.com reported:

Americans’ political ideology at the midyear point of 2011 looks similar to 2009 and 2010, with 41% self-identifying as conservative, 36% as moderate, and 21% as liberal.

If this pattern continues, 2011 will be the third straight year that conservatives significantly outnumber moderates — the next largest ideological bloc. Liberalism has been holding steady for the past six years, averaging either 21% or 22%, although notably higher than the 17% average seen in Gallup polling during the early to middle ’90s.

No wonder the Liberals, the Main Stream Media, and the Vichy Republicans have been vilifying the Tea Party Movement during the Debt Ceiling Negotiations.

We (Conservatives) outnumber them.

kingsjester on August 1, 2011 at 10:17 PM

Just as they had to Rahm Unconstitutional Obamacare through before people learned what was in it, they seem to want to do as much damage as they can to this great country before the people remember why you don’t put Democrats in charge.

Chip on August 1, 2011 at 9:29 PM

yeah, but the difference is that now people are paying attention…or anyways more than they used to…so, in that sense the Reps learned a little from Rahm’s ‘philosophy’, or well from his ‘little book of horrors’ if you like it better :-) – ‘never let a crisis go to waste’ :-)…The Reps used this ‘crisis’ to make sure people pay attention, and you bet people will follow from now to 2012…besides there will be a renewed ‘circus’ like this one every time the prez will try to raise the debt ceiling, or hike the taxes, and this guarantees that all eyes will be on him/them (Dems) again and this is not good news for the One…this time he’ll need more than recycling that hopey slogan…

jimver on August 2, 2011 at 12:37 AM

Paul Ryan was interviewed by Hannity tonight. Chairman Ryan knows more about the budget, CBO scoring, etc., than any dozen people on the blogosphere.

When Hannity said that he feared increased taxes, Ryan explained in excruciating detail why it’d take exceptional circumstances to trigger a tax increase.

No disrespect intended but I’ll trust Chairman Ryan this time.

LFRGary on August 2, 2011 at 12:48 AM

Paul Ryan was interviewed by Hannity tonight. Chairman Ryan knows more about the budget, CBO scoring, etc., than any dozen people on the blogosphere.

When Hannity said that he feared increased taxes, Ryan explained in excruciating detail why it’d take exceptional circumstances to trigger a tax increase.

No disrespect intended but I’ll trust Chairman Ryan this time.

LFRGary on August 2, 2011 at 12:48 AM

Yep, Ryan may be a bit short of experience in office to be president, but he definitely has the brains that the present occupant doesn’t know he doesn’t have.

slickwillie2001 on August 2, 2011 at 1:34 AM

Unless there is a takeover of the GOP and we get a Tea Party candidate as the nominee then the party is lost to the Progressives (Bush/Rockefeller)

PappyD61 on August 2, 2011 at 6:37 AM

When Hannity said that he feared increased taxes, Ryan explained in excruciating detail why it’d take exceptional circumstances to trigger a tax increase.

No disrespect intended but I’ll trust Chairman Ryan this time.

LFRGary on August 2, 2011 at 12:48 AM

Bush claimed exceptional circumstances for TARP.

Obama claimed exceptional circumstances for Obamacare.

The GOP claimed exceptional circumstances for selling us out and giving Obama his reelection chances back with the big debt ceiling increase.

All these things have happened in the LAST THREE YEARS.

The government will create a crisis if necessary, for the purpose of subjugating the American people even further.

Count on it.

fossten on August 2, 2011 at 8:00 AM

As much as it sucks, taxes are going to have to go up, and everybody on both sides have to face cuts. I am not big on Coburn over the Ensign affair, but he is not a tax and spender.

Southernblogger on August 1, 2011 at 8:44 PM
By definition anyone who voted for this bill is a “tax and spender”. The tax portion because they anticipate the
Bush tax cuts expiring; why not anticipate extending them again? The spending because they gave Obama carte blanche
to spend trillions pretty much however he wants.

They are also morons because they think we hobbits are going to fall for this trick. God bless the internet!
Otherwise we would know nothing.

Amjean on August 2, 2011 at 9:50 AM

This selection of the 12 member super committee will be interesting. 6 from the House and 6 from the Senate is what I’ve read.
Now the Weekly Standard has an article that Mitch McConnell will be making the selections in the Senate. The article didn’t mention Reid, but I would assume that each would select 3.
The article said 3 Senators (not named) indicated that no Senator that votes against this debt-ceiling bill will be allowed to serve on the super committee.

I hope that’s not true. Just reporting what I’ve found so far on this issue.

Link: http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/fiscal-conservatives-barred-supercommittee_581921.html?nopager=1

bluefox on August 2, 2011 at 11:00 AM

I’m not upset by this … I totally predicted this would be a part of the GOP betrayal and I was right.

I said – that establishment (RINO) Republicans were so fearful of a default that they’d approve ANYTHING .. ANYTHING … to keep it from happening.

And I was correct.

“Look at this plan! See! We have WON! No tax increases!!”

And yet – there almost certainly will be.

Can someone remind me? What in the hell we’ve gotten out of this deal?

Let’s see …

1. Imaginary cuts spread out over 10 years.

2. A debt-commission which will require SKILLFULL manipulation in order to get the kind of cuts we want and need. Too bad the terms “Skillful Negotiators” and “Republican” are mutually exclusive. This debt-commission is but another opportunity for Obama to hand us our asses. We weren’t content in just stomping on Tea Party enthusiasm twice – once with the budget deal and now with the debt deal – we’re gonna do AGAIN when this debt commission falls apart and we pronounce it “too hard” to salvage.

3. Possible tax increases.

THANK YOU REPUBLICAN PARTY! I SEE YOU’VE RECEIVED THE MESSAGE WE TRIED TO SEND YOU IN NOVEMBER!

HondaV65 on August 2, 2011 at 11:14 AM

HondaV65 on August 2, 2011 at 11:14 AM

Both parties betrayed the American People. However, the House shares more blame, since they had the power to stop what happened. They worked with the Dems and were a part of it. The Republicans were given the majority for a reason. It took hard work to accomplish this feat, not to mention the money that was raised.
(C-span just cut off Senator Lee in the Senate-Video issues, try again later- Hmmmm)

This 12 member committee is just another way of passing the buck. They will not agree on anything, so we’ll go to automatic cuts.

Since nothing good has come out of this betrayal, the only thing I see is to take advantage of the Roll Call votes. That shows us what we have to do.

Give up, throw the towel in (as some suggest or third party?
No, we continue to do what we did in 11/2010.

Don’t overlook the historic gains made in the States. The State Governors/Senate/House I think are much easier to influence if they get out of line.

C-span2 video now working:-)

bluefox on August 2, 2011 at 11:34 AM

Once again, anybody who actually thinks that the Super Congress is actually the beginning of an oligarchy should be on a bus, train, plane or in a car with pitchforks and torches. Much like the Democrats did in Wisconsin.

But instead, here we are.

You think they don’t know that?

angelat0763 on August 2, 2011 at 12:07 PM

Bush claimed exceptional circumstances for TARP.
Obama claimed exceptional circumstances for Obamacare.
The GOP claimed exceptional circumstances for …the big debt ceiling increase.

fossten on August 2, 2011 at 8:00 AM

Looks like they learned quite a bit from the success of the gawd-awful Patriot Act. Never let a crisis go to waste.

In fact they’ve perfected it – now they’re not above creating the crisis.

angelat0763 on August 2, 2011 at 12:10 PM

da*n every one of their lying a**es to Hell

ultracon on August 2, 2011 at 1:55 PM

Of course, this isn’t some long-term deal, just to get us past the next election. Then everything will be on the table again.

If Obama wins, and Democrats retain the Senate, it will be back to where we were, but no way out, disaster.

If Obama wins, and Republicans take the Senate (quite possible), unless we can attract enough Democrats in both House and Senate to override vetoes, we’re still screwed.

If the Republican wins and we take the Senate, we will move to clean up the mess. Not because it’s what Republicans would do in normal times, but because we’re at the end of the line and there is nothing else to do.

~~~~~~

But I wish all you whiny little third party weasels would just shut up and leave already. Your big mouths keep threatening to bolt the GOP, yet you continue to stay offering your demands. Screw you losers. Put your mouth where your mouth is for a change. Or STFU.

Adjoran on August 2, 2011 at 3:29 PM

There are a couple of things becoming obvious. First, none of the old line politicians, either Democrat or Republican, will do anything to cut the deficit. They’ll pad numbers, they’ll give you non-existent cuts, they’ll show you all sorts of things, but they will NOT reduce the deficit.

Secondly, we need to do zero based budgeting. With the inflation rates the way they are, there should have been no reason our country couldn’t live with 7% increases every year, yet Congress couldn’t do it. We need to get serious and the only way to do that is zero base and cuts, such as closing down the Department of Energy.

The third, and last for this discussion, obvious thing is the Republicans have to take over again, only with more tea party candidates in office. The Senate needs to have someone like Marco Rubio as the Majority leader (he should be the minority leader now), someone who will actually do what it takes to reduce debt.

Boehner and McConnell have had 2 bites at the apple and haven’t gotten much from it at all. If McConnell takes heart that Obama didn’t get a clean increase in the debt, he shouldn’t take heart that, with his super congress, he can get his tax increases with no Republicans being able to stop him. These are the things that happen with All Drama Obama and his last minute bills, designed to throw so much at you you’re bound to miss something. This is like ACORN going into the polling stations with 1000 voter registrations hoping they’ll get 10% of them through.

bflat879 on August 2, 2011 at 9:31 PM

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