Deal update: $2.4T in cuts and ceiling hikes — both in two parts

posted at 8:42 am on July 31, 2011 by Ed Morrissey

ABC reports this morning that Congressional leaders have already begun briefing their caucuses on the eleventh-hour deal that emerged from the White House last night.  Jonathan Karl notes that the deal is contingent on getting enough support from each House caucus to form a majority, and in the Senate to avoid a filibuster.  We’ll come back to that in a moment, but Karl also updates the story on the deal.  The topline numbers are apparently $2.4 trillion in matching spending cuts and debt-ceiling raises instead of $2.8 trillion, but now both are split into two parts:

The current framework would give the president the authority to raise the debt ceiling in two parts: roughly half of it now and the balance at the end of the year.

Each increase would be subject to a Congressional resolution of disapproval.

If Congress voted to disapprove that increase, however, the President could veto their disapproval.

The AP reported earlier on the $2.4 trillion number, too, although they say the cuts will be “slightly more” than the debt-ceiling boost.  That’s still enough to get Barack Obama past the 2012 election, but not by much. It guarantees that the debt ceiling will be a 2012 election issue, although by now that was a given anyway.

However, the added McConnell wrinkle is interesting — and potentially a big win for Republicans.  Essentially, Republicans get to claim credit for the cuts while laying blame for the debt increases on Obama.  If they “disapprove,” Obama will veto the disapproval and end up owning all of the political baggage for the debt-ceiling increases.  That’s a steep price to pay for Obama just to protect himself through the next election, although he could turn it on its ear and refuse to veto the second increase disapproval and force this fight all over again.  That would, however, put the country back in “crisis” mode, and that would still be all on Obama.

This brings the deal closer to what I predicted yesterday; in fact, it almost matches it exactly.  But can the leaders get the votes for it?  If Obama endorses this deal, most Democrats will have no choice but to back it; after all, they have been doing the most Chicken Little screeching about the consequences of legislative failure.  Boehner and McConnell will lose a significant number of Republicans, but both will probably hold a majority of their caucuses.  I’d expect an agreement along these lines to pass quickly through Congress, maybe fast enough to avoid having to pass a $50 billion, two-week extension to gain time for the debate.

Update: Added “ceiling” to headline for more clarity.

Update II: McConnell tells CNN that they are “very close” to a deal.  I’d interpret that to mean that they’re shopping the deal to the caucuses to make sure they can get the votes.

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Each increase would be subject to a Congressional resolution of disapproval.

If Congress voted to disapprove that increase, however, the President could veto their disapproval.

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The stooges in Congress should slapped naked and have their clothes hidden.

darwin-t on July 31, 2011 at 10:00 AM

Please, please bookmark this thread for when Obama vetoes the Congressional objections to the next increase, k? Not that it’ll matter, but hope does spring eternal that some of you will wake the hell up someday.

Midas on July 31, 2011 at 10:00 AM

I can’t afford my mortgage payments, but I want a Cayman S.
 
Don’t worry, though. I’ll buy used so I can save money.

rogerb on July 31, 2011 at 10:01 AM

Regardless what happens: defeat RINOs in the primaries, defeat Democrats in the general, rid this nation of the radical socialist in the White House in Nov.

Weight of Glory on July 31, 2011 at 9:41 AM
I second your motion!

Amjean on July 31, 2011 at 10:01 AM

…rid this nation of the radical socialist in the White House in Nov.

Weight of Glory on July 31, 2011 at 9:41 AM

Too late.

Midas on July 31, 2011 at 10:02 AM

itsnotaboutme, Southernblogger

Remember this, whatever “good” comes out of this deal would have never happened without the Tea Party. Sorry if the process of standing up for fiscal responsibility scared you but it’s not going to get any better.

Cindy Munford on July 31, 2011 at 10:03 AM

What I’m also worried about in this plan is Obama with the checkbook. It really doesn’t matter that he will get the blame for trashing the economy if he raises the debt limit himself if the plan all along is to trash the economy so that he can bring about a whole new system. In fact, letting the economy collapse would probably be the best way to usher in socialism. Am I missing something here?

KickandSwimMom on July 31, 2011 at 9:40 AM

Whats the point of being the socialist dictator of the most bankrupt country on the planet?

Nah, the point is to be the dictator of the largest economy on the planet so you can divert the most money.

BobMbx on July 31, 2011 at 10:04 AM

Seriously? Have you been awake for the last couple of weeks? Who has *all* of the political pressure been on? When Obama vetoes it – and he will – it will be with numerous television appearances (for free), countless press conferences from Obama henchmen, and countless exponential editorials/pundit pieces/talking head discussions about how ‘our hero’ had to do what he did because the terrorists in the GOP were holding a gun to the head of the economy, threatening to kill Granny, to default for the first time in history and send the world into flames, etc.

Dear God, what hope do we have if our own guys are so naive that they can’t even remember what the Dems playbook on this was 48 freaking hours ago.

*sigh*

Midas on July 31, 2011 at 9:59 AM

Two days ago, Obama was at 50 disapprove/40 approve on Gallup. Yesterday, he was at 52 disapprove/but still 40 approve on the same poll. Gallup is playing with the published numbers to help Obama, clearly, but the Obamaa White House has the real deal. He is below 40% on approval. This “crisis” has hurt him, and hurt him badly. He will never veto a “bipartisan” deal. He’ll sign it and try to spin it as a democrat win.

Rational Thought on July 31, 2011 at 10:05 AM

Remember this, whatever “good” comes out of this deal would have never happened without the Tea Party. Sorry if the process of standing up for fiscal responsibility scared you but it’s not going to get any better.

Cindy Munford on July 31, 2011 at 10:03 AM

Well said, ma’am.

kingsjester on July 31, 2011 at 10:05 AM

Remember this, whatever “good” comes out of this deal would have never happened without the Tea Party. Sorry if the process of standing up for fiscal responsibility scared you but it’s not going to get any better.

Cindy Munford on July 31, 2011 at 10:03 AM

Nothing good will come from this Mrs. M.

darwin-t on July 31, 2011 at 10:06 AM

There are only TWO parties driven by principle in D.C.

One is led by the Transformer and his Progressive kin that want to continue to enslave our Grandchildren with chains of Foreign creditors.

The other is a small minority trying to make sure future Americans have financial freedom and choice. And are not slaves to the IMF or some other America hater.

I’ll take principle over party anyway!!

PappyD61 on July 31, 2011 at 10:07 AM

Rational Thought on July 31, 2011 at 10:05 AM

Gallup was also showing him at 41% on the Debt Ceiling Fiasco, ahead of Reid and Boehner. Spin, baby, spin.

The WH Internals must be awful.

kingsjester on July 31, 2011 at 10:07 AM

“However, the added McConnell wrinkle is interesting — and potentially a big win for Republicans. Essentially, Republicans get to claim credit for the cuts while laying blame for the debt increases on Obama. If they “disapprove,” Obama will veto the disapproval and end up owning all of the political baggage for the debt-ceiling increases. That’s a steep price to pay for Obama just to protect himself through the next election, although he could turn it on its ear and refuse to veto the second increase disapproval and force this fight all over again. That would, however, put the country back in “crisis” mode, and that would still be all on Obama.”

OR,

Obama now sees that the ’12 contest may not a cinch and figures he’d better bankrupt us now instead of later. Mission accomplished.

The numbers here while unprecedented(we are speaking in trillions for the 1st time in history) are miniscule compared to the cumulitive ripple effects debasing the dollar, losing “currency of choice” status and ballooning interest rates.

Collectivists of every stripe believes that only thing that has stood athwart all their grand failures of the past is individualism and the capitalist compunction. America has long been seen as the beacon of this ethos, though I’d argue that beam has been reduced to a flicker, and as such the only entity thats left between humanity and their dystopian nirvanna. This is why they no budget plan or any other credilble answers to today’s problems, America, The Republic, is the problem. Their laser focus to the sabotage of our system as proof of its dysfunction extends no further than its collapse.

Then, and only then, will the universe be magically replete with unicorns and skittles and everyone’s porridge will just right. But then therein lies the catch, its porridge! No steaks, no lobsters, not even any bacon-double-cheeseburgers! No everthing is a decided for you, equally bland, flat, and indistinguishable, nothingness that robs the soul of any of the flavor of life. The challenge, the opportunity to risk success and failure and reap the rewards their of in the name of protecting the “greater good”.

Their vision leeds inexorably to a “housing project” sameness that encompasses every facet of life with equal deprivation. Where there are no favorites, or least favorites, there’s no choices, there’s just equality.

If we give the Progressives the opportunity through handing the purse strings to Obama to implode the nation, they’ll do just that. Political positioning for ’12 may be a moot point, it may be too late by then.

Archimedes on July 31, 2011 at 10:10 AM

This plan is no compromise. RINO’s need to go. The conservatives in the House need to vote against this plan.

jbh45 on July 31, 2011 at 10:11 AM

Empires last about 200 years on average. The American empire will expire on schedule after this fiasco failed to stop the spending madness.

China and India… You’re up.

angryed on July 31, 2011 at 10:11 AM

darwin-t on July 31, 2011 at 10:06 AM

I know. It’s just more of the same. I think the people here whining and wringing their hands at those trying to stand strong and promoting real change, are a hoot. What kind of world do we have when “don’t expect too much” is the rallying cry.

Cindy Munford on July 31, 2011 at 10:12 AM

The current framework would give the president the authority to raise the debt ceiling

How high? To $20 trillion? To $50 trillion?

This is ridiculous.

Is this unconstitutional, too?

Emperor Norton on July 31, 2011 at 10:12 AM

Cindy Munford on July 31, 2011 at 10:03 AM

It is an ongoing battle, and yes it is part of the electoral battle now.I have been to Tea Parties and I am sympathetic to the movement. You just have to know when to settle for “good enough for now” and keep fighting.

Southernblogger on July 31, 2011 at 10:13 AM

McConnell and Boehner wanted to raise the debt ceiling desperately, but blame someone else. That’s how these two guys think. Not about policies on the merits, but only about who gets the credit or blame.

Emperor Norton on July 31, 2011 at 10:14 AM

Southernblogger on July 31, 2011 at 10:13 AM

Oh, I know when to settle and it won’t be at the ballot box.

Cindy Munford on July 31, 2011 at 10:16 AM

The dearth of liberal blogging/commentary on this (see Memeorandum) tells me that the libs see this as a cave by their very weakened president. They’ll re-energize for the spin, of course, but the conversation in this country has changed, and a whole lot more people now realize that we simply cannot afford the Obama presidency. That’s a win.

Rational Thought on July 31, 2011 at 10:16 AM

Midas on July 31, 2011 at 10:00 AM

Archimedes on July 31, 2011 at 10:10 AM

Thank You!

spacewife on July 31, 2011 at 10:17 AM

Does this mean that Dear Leader’s birthday party is a go..?

d1carter on July 31, 2011 at 10:19 AM

Southernblogger on July 31, 2011 at 10:13 AM

Oh, and the trick is to never let those guys know you are satisfied. Everyone knows they are only going to get so far but you don’t need to encourage them to cave. They should never think the job is done because in our life time it won’t be.

Cindy Munford on July 31, 2011 at 10:19 AM

You just have to know when to settle for “good enough for now” and keep fighting.

Southernblogger on July 31, 2011 at 10:13 AM

With resolve like that we would still be part of Great Britain like Canada. That may be “good enough” for you but some of us like being America.

darwin-t on July 31, 2011 at 10:19 AM

You just have to know when to settle for “good enough for now” and keep fighting.

Southernblogger on July 31, 2011 at 10:13 AM

Yeah, that whole standing for something thingy is way overrated, ain’t it?/

kingsjester on July 31, 2011 at 10:23 AM

This has been a great success for democracy…
….everyone gets something.

Obama gets nearly everything he wants.
The GOP give up everything but tax increases, we hope, but they get material for their next campaign ads…
The news media gets drama.
The tea party extremists get the blame.

Of course we don’t really know the details, since the news media accuracy ranges between ‘missed it by that much’ all the way up to ‘almost got it right that time’.

So tune in next week for the exciting manufactured crisis of the month where we can all play
‘LETS MAKE A DEAL’, the exciting new online game show where ordinary people give advice to our Senators, Congressional Representatives, and even the President of the United States!!. You won’t want to miss a single comment where ‘CITIZENS SAY THE FUNNIEST THINGS’. You’ll laugh, you’ll cry, but don’t miss a single moment of ‘AS THE WORLD CHURNS’.

Each exciting episode of the manufactured crisis of the month features a ticking time bomb count down clock counting off the seconds to an arbitrary deadline where emotions run high, and anything can happen. Of course you will need your program guide because you can’t tell who the players are without guide to the sock puppets, fanboys, and provocateurs since the art of masquerade keeps everyone’s identity hidden until the clock runs out. As the game progresses, our panel of experts will attempt to unmask participants by asking a line of questions designed to reveal secret identities. Using hyper acute senses, logic, facts, and some heavy duty PsyWarOps experience with some insider WAGs, and other acronyms, our panel of expert detectives will wage war against the evil forces of misdirection, and misinformation which will have you ‘LAUGH IN’ all through the ‘HEAT OF THE NIGHT’. As the count down clock runs out, our game show hosts will announce who gets fired, and who it is gets to return next season for more exciting action.

Don’t miss the post game analysis from credentialed, pedigreed, world renowned elite experts who will give a detailed explanation of who won, who lost, how they did it, and how each sides final offer could have been better.

Ah well, who am I trying to kid? It’s the $64,000 question, “Jeopardy”, and the ‘Wheel of Fortune’; we all know the game is rigged. Still there is always hope that one day Bullwinkle really will pull a rabbit out of that hat.

Skandia Recluse on July 31, 2011 at 10:24 AM

darwin-t on July 31, 2011 at 10:19 AM

You are normally one of the “not crazy” ones here so I will clarify. You go as far as you can without turning everybody against your movement which would spell inevitable defeat for your movement. We take the deal, avoid a shutdown and potential tanking, and press on. All or nothing is not a winner.

Southernblogger on July 31, 2011 at 10:25 AM

Remember this, whatever “good” comes out of this deal would have never happened without the Tea Party. Sorry if the process of standing up for fiscal responsibility scared you but it’s not going to get any better.

Cindy Munford on July 31, 2011 at 10:03 AM

The spectacle of them vomiting all over themselves in fear has been both disgusting and edifying. By demonstrating infantile evil at its nadir, their actions show that crr6 has more dignity and integrity than these chumps do.

ebrown2 on July 31, 2011 at 10:26 AM

Cindy Munford on July 31, 2011 at 10:19 AM

Agreed. Now be nice and put the pin back in the grenade.

Southernblogger on July 31, 2011 at 10:27 AM

Rational Thought on July 31, 2011 at 9:37 AM

And in the mean time we have added 2.8 trillion that we will have to pay for with no real changes. A guarantee that the BBA will be passed through the congress BEFORE the increases would be meaningful change. And I believe that events have gotten out of control of the Washington intelligentsia at this point and I think they will adapt in a way to never give us this opportunity to FORCE them into compliance for several years. Even after 2012 there will still be too many RINO’s and progressive dems in office to take over. I feel that the time is now and we need to squeeze them until they cry uncle on the BBA.

csdeven on July 31, 2011 at 10:27 AM

Skandia Recluse on July 31, 2011 at 10:24 AM

Very nice!! I think it is so funny that the stock market did help them out by crashing. I guess they are finding out that their powers of manipulation aren’t what they thought.

Cindy Munford on July 31, 2011 at 10:28 AM

Southernblogger on July 31, 2011 at 10:27 AM

Okay, but remember next time The Won manufactures something to make you mess in your drawers that I am armed.

Cindy Munford on July 31, 2011 at 10:29 AM

Cindy Munford on July 31, 2011 at 10:29 AM

and dangerous

Southernblogger on July 31, 2011 at 10:31 AM

How many of these Congressional and White House fiscal geniuses actually manage their own home budget? How many don’t have a financial worry in the world?

Seems they (and their supporters) believe that if you say something is fixed, merely saying it fixes it.

If responsible Americans are forced to live within their means…why not government?

I’d sure as hell would like to be able to make my financial concerns disappear merely by telling the bank and other creditors that I wish to fix my budget problems and then be able to borrow a couple hundred thousand with no intention of ever paying any of it back.

coldwarrior on July 31, 2011 at 10:31 AM

Mr Boehner, your so two faced, you are not trustworthy.The fix was in and you played us all for suckers.

Sandybourne on July 31, 2011 at 10:34 AM

Southernblogger on July 31, 2011 at 10:31 AM

You are too kind.

Cindy Munford on July 31, 2011 at 10:35 AM

Those freshman who voted with Boehner against their campaign promises only to see a pre-arranged deal go into effect must not be too happy right about now.

txmomof6 on July 31, 2011 at 9:04 AM

txmomof6, I would say they will be thinking very hard when they are asked for their next vote.

I know the American people won’t be given the opportunity to see this “compromise”; we’ll have to wait until it’s passed to find out the “devil in the details”. Same thing with the “health care” betrayal.

My concern is will the House Republicans get to see this? Did they see the last plan they voted on? Or did they/will they just take whatever Boehner says is in it?

Just a side note: Glad that I won’t be asked for election donations now. I’m sure neither party want any funds from the Hobbits:-)

bluefox on July 31, 2011 at 10:35 AM

You go as far as you can without turning everybody against your movement which would spell inevitable defeat for your movement. We take the deal, avoid a shutdown and potential tanking, and press on. All or nothing is not a winner.

Southernblogger on July 31, 2011 at 10:25 AM

THAT consideration was off the table the minute the Tea Party was formed. The second the cry to halt the spending was issued, the labeling of the Tea Party as extreme and crazy started. And even if we acquiesced now, the attacks will continue at an increased fervor. NO!! This far and no further! We get the BBA and when the country starts to heal, Americans will see that and the Tea Party movement is justified. It is time to fight to the end.

csdeven on July 31, 2011 at 10:36 AM

Anything that keeps this in the headlines in 2012 is good. My big goal is to get Obama out so we can go about repairing the country.

If Obama loses, the radical, left wingers he has everywhere will be booted also. Get rid of the shadow army and you’ll find more democrats to go along as well. Obama isn’t bright enough to be running the show but the head needs to be cut off.

Vince on July 31, 2011 at 10:36 AM

You go as far as you can without turning everybody against your movement which would spell inevitable defeat for your movement. We take the deal, avoid a shutdown and potential tanking, and press on. All or nothing is not a winner.

Southernblogger on July 31, 2011 at 10:25 AM

THAT consideration was off the table the minute the Tea Party was formed. The second the cry to halt the spending was issued, the labeling of the Tea Party as extreme and crazy started. And even if we acquiesced now, the attacks will continue at an increased fervor. NO!! This far and no further! We get the BBA and when the country starts to heal, Americans will see that and the Tea Party movement is justified. It is time to fight to the end.

csdeven on July 31, 2011 at 10:36 AM

coldwarrior on July 31, 2011 at 10:31 AM

Does it help for you to know that there are news stories that Rep. Rangel has written bad checks and that contractors in Iraq are charging the U.S. 12000K% over actual costs?

Cindy Munford on July 31, 2011 at 10:38 AM

csdeven on July 31, 2011 at 10:36 AM

I like you when you aren’t on Palin threads and accusing people of stalking you.

Cindy Munford on July 31, 2011 at 10:39 AM

I like you when you aren’t on Palin threads and accusing people of stalking you.

Cindy Munford on July 31, 2011 at 10:39 AM

When they stick to the thread topic, those threads aren’t filled with people stalking me. Can’t you see that I am not the one who initiates the thread jacking?

csdeven on July 31, 2011 at 10:41 AM

Cindy Munford on July 31, 2011 at 10:38 AM

Rangel isn’t the only one…sadly.

And we actually expect these same folks to come up with a real budget?

If we, the People, refuse to hold these folks’ feet to the fire each and every time, then we are part and parcel to the entire problem.

coldwarrior on July 31, 2011 at 10:41 AM

ebrown2 on July 31, 2011 at 10:26 AM

It’s been an eye opener.

Cindy Munford on July 31, 2011 at 10:43 AM

csdeven on July 31, 2011 at 10:41 AM

Then make cogent remarks about the topic to get them back on track, you are obviously capable.

Cindy Munford on July 31, 2011 at 10:44 AM

coldwarrior on July 31, 2011 at 10:31 AM

I doubt if many of these Congress Critters could even balance a checkbook; we know they can’t balance the Federal one. Insanity on display in my opinion.

Many American people don’t have the college degrees that these critters do. Most all are Attorneys to boot. Since they have no common sense, then it’s all about politics, a game to them. Too bad we are the pawns.

bluefox on July 31, 2011 at 10:44 AM

This has been a great success for democracy…
….everyone gets something.

Obama gets nearly everything he wants.
The GOP give up everything but tax increases, we hope, but they get material for their next campaign ads…
The news media gets drama.

The tea party extremists get the blame.

Don’t we all recognize that the Bust tax rates will expire at the end of 2012 and that they are unlikely to be extended? Any effort to extend them will be painted as a blow to providing “revenues” to accommodate the debt that this “deal” has assured.

Also O-care freight train of more costs is likely to impose the imposition of higher taxes, too.

This “deal” is nothing but a campaign slush fund for ObaMao and his fellow-traveling Dems. It saddles our nation into the servitude of debt well beyond what the eye can see.

Congress is yet again ceding its powers to an elite few and a profligate “executive.”

This is a “compromise” that offers not solutions and does not even begin to address the drivers of this crisis: irresponsible debt accumulation.

onlineanalyst on July 31, 2011 at 10:46 AM

coldwarrior on July 31, 2011 at 10:41 AM

I am at a loss to get them the message. The only thing that seems to get their attention is large rallies of unhappy people. More Tea Party. Can it be done?

Cindy Munford on July 31, 2011 at 10:46 AM

Isn’t this sweet?

Another year of ther rampant EPA curtailing energy production!

Another year of DoJ covering up Gunwalker type programs, along with State Dept!

Another year closer to the full implementation of Obamacare, which has its own taxes, BTW!

Another year of programs to help cronies in the Unions, GE, GM, Chrysler and let us not forget the intermediary making money off the debt, Goldman-Sachs!

Why what a splendid deal!

Isn’t it so good to make a deal? Why it makes you look so officious and respectable to be giving away the candy store and give the spendthrift who is way over his limit the ability to say ‘shut up’ when you tell him to stop spending. Oh so very and loverly wonderful this is to give away the power of the Congress to a VETO so that any attempt to even BRING UP THE ISSUE will be voted down or vetoed by the Odipstick and he can say ‘there, there all you teaparty terrorists are just nuts’. Awwww… its Elites circling the wagons to try and keep the bankrupt 20th century going another year.

Plus another year of doing nothing, not trying to stop the spending and watching the Nation crumble while the Elites make out like bandits all so you can win an election of a truly bankrupt country. And get the BLAME for the bankruptcy instead of PLACING IT now. This isn’t about saving the Nation from Obama, it is about letting him save face, never have to do his job, blame others with CONGRESSIONAL SUPPORT from its LEADERSHIP and let things go until multiple ‘crises’ hit just late next year.

Spiffy.

Just spiffy.

Thanks for nothing.

ajacksonian on July 31, 2011 at 10:49 AM

It’s interesting, too, that the Dems were playing with hocus-pocus “savings” that the exiting from Iraq and Afghanistan were already scheduled to do. What about the “savings” that an exit from the Libyan “adventure,” which we should have never entered.

Er, that was the Bush tax rates, not the Bust tax rates that I meant. Dang, the excited fingers of outrage!

onlineanalyst on July 31, 2011 at 10:51 AM

I am at a loss to get them the message. The only thing that seems to get their attention is large rallies of unhappy people. More Tea Party. Can it be done?

Cindy Munford on July 31, 2011 at 10:46 AM

The under-65 Tea Party folks are in the unhappy (for rally purposes, anyway) position of having to work at real jobs for a living, so their “use their vacation time to protest” is necessarily limited.

ebrown2 on July 31, 2011 at 10:52 AM

Plus another year of doing nothing, not trying to stop the spending and watching the Nation crumble while the Elites make out like bandits all so you can win an election of a truly bankrupt country. And get the BLAME for the bankruptcy instead of PLACING IT now. This isn’t about saving the Nation from Obama, it is about letting him save face, never have to do his job, blame others with CONGRESSIONAL SUPPORT from its LEADERSHIP and let things go until multiple ‘crises’ hit just late next year.

Spiffy.

Just spiffy.

Thanks for nothing.

ajacksonian on July 31, 2011 at 10:49 AM

Literally -less- than nothing.

ebrown2 on July 31, 2011 at 10:54 AM

Obama has fat cat vacation plans the next many weeks. If hurts for him to be unable to announce them. It would be interesting if this came appart and he was delayed in leaving town. This fiasco is about him and not America.

seven on July 31, 2011 at 10:54 AM

Oh, and the trick is to never let those guys know you are satisfied. Everyone knows they are only going to get so far but you don’t need to encourage them to cave. They should never think the job is done because in our life time it won’t be.

Cindy Munford on July 31, 2011 at 10:19 AM

..Madam, you are on fire this morning! Your boyfriend/husband/main s

The War Planner on July 31, 2011 at 10:55 AM

It’s interesting, too, that all of the economic “experts” associated with this administration’s unsustainable debt have run away, back to academia. When will Timmy Geithner take his leave? It’s just a matter of time. Any bets where his golden parachute will lead him?

onlineanalyst on July 31, 2011 at 10:55 AM

Oh, and the trick is to never let those guys know you are satisfied. Everyone knows they are only going to get so far but you don’t need to encourage them to cave. They should never think the job is done because in our life time it won’t be.

Cindy Munford on July 31, 2011 at 10:19 AM

..Madam, you are on fire this morning! Your boyfriend/husband/main squeeze is a very, very fortunate person.

The War Planner on July 31, 2011 at 10:55 AM

More Tea Party. Can it be done?

Cindy Munford on July 31, 2011 at 10:46 AM

It should be done. It must be done. And no let-up until government is required to live within its means, and our ‘leaders” are reminded daily that they are mere citizens who have been tasked with a job…working for us…and reminded again and again and routinely summarily fired for non-compliance with their assigned tasks.

The Dems may have secretly re-written it, but I seem to recall our Constitution starting out with “We, the People…” not “Us, the Congress…” or “Me, the President.”

The folks who founded this Nation would make Tea Party people look like pikers.

Perhaps it is past time to start acting like we, the People, are past being merely concerned.

coldwarrior on July 31, 2011 at 10:55 AM

..oops! Sorry for the spastic double-post. You get the idea.

The War Planner on July 31, 2011 at 10:56 AM

ebrown2 on July 31, 2011 at 10:52 AM

Except those of us unemployed. One of the things I have loved about the Tea Party also makes it a drawback, it truly is grassroots. We will know the fear of our representatives by the townhalls they don’t have.

Cindy Munford on July 31, 2011 at 10:58 AM

The War Planner on July 31, 2011 at 10:55 AM

The important part is that we are like minded.

Cindy Munford on July 31, 2011 at 11:00 AM

ajacksonian on July 31, 2011 at 10:49 AM

Sad, but true is what you describe.

Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely

bluefox on July 31, 2011 at 11:00 AM

The stooges in Congress should slapped naked and have their clothes hidden.

darwin-t on July 31, 2011 at 10:00 AM

You can have McConnell. I’m warming up the maple syrup and crocodile pool for Boehner. All mine.

Fortunata on July 31, 2011 at 11:01 AM

for 2.4 trillon is ceiling increase we should get MAJOR changes in the budget and entilements, not commissions. I hate Obama, but Boner and McConnell are enablers.

Oil Can on July 31, 2011 at 11:02 AM

coldwarrior July 31, 2011 at 10:55 AM

I get disappointed when I see so many “conservatives” with national platforms telling us to settle. Too bad Fox lost their nerve, we lost a valuable cheerleader in Glenn Beck. Love or hate him, he got results.

Cindy Munford on July 31, 2011 at 11:05 AM

Oh so very and loverly wonderful this is to give away the power of the Congress to a VETO so that any attempt to even BRING UP THE ISSUE will be voted down or vetoed by the Odipstick and he can say ‘there, there all you teaparty terrorists are just nuts’. Awwww… its Elites circling the wagons to try and keep the bankrupt 20th century going another year.

ajacksonian on July 31, 2011 at 10:49 AM

Yes, and what is really lovely is that these rebarbative j@ck@sses are counseling the Tea Party to imitate the progressives for incremental change. That would entail:

A) the Tea Party being a bunch of lying, immoral America-haters pushing their goals via stealth over a long time of prosperous indifference on the part of honest Americans.

B) Having party elites who actually AGREE with your goals. RINOs don’t agree AT ALL with the Tea Party, the Democratic leadership goes along with the progressive ideology whole-heartedly and only objects occasionally on semi-pragmatic grounds when the progs are too honest about their goals and methods.

C) Viewing Obama as a singular fetish object of hatred, like Emmanuel Goldstein in 1984, or Bush from 2001-2009. Obama didn’t just teleport down from Planet Zeist in 2008 and use an evil mind-control ray on the electorate to gain power. As one Czech politician put it, we should not fear
Obama, but the electorate that put him into office. The education HAS TO START NOW, because we are pretty much at the point of no return ideologically, morally and fiscally. Punks like Ingraham, Allen West, Ben Stein and others may want to roll over and go “I wanna sleepy boo. Make Baaa Tee Patty man go way!” but we cannot afford their willful infantile stupidity anymore…

LITERALLY

ebrown2 on July 31, 2011 at 11:05 AM

You can have McConnell. I’m warming up the maple syrup and crocodile pool for Boehner. All mine.

Fortunata on July 31, 2011 at 11:01 AM

I was only thinking of parading them around and humiliating them, but you can have your little bit of fun.*_-

darwin-t on July 31, 2011 at 11:05 AM

Oil Can on July 31, 2011 at 11:02 AM

Commissions = Horse ShI!t!

I resent that these people think we are that stupid.

Cindy Munford on July 31, 2011 at 11:07 AM

I said a few weeks ago that my order of preference is:
1) Leave the debt ceiling unchanged
2) CCB or a similarly reponsible bill that actually balances the budget over time
3) If all else fails, a clean bill to raise the debt limit, which I don’t like but it’s better than option 4
4) Under absolutely no circumstances should be have a corrupt bill, negotiated in a secret process behind closed doors, that only serves to increase the corruption that is already overflowing from our POS government.

FloatingRock on July 31, 2011 at 11:08 AM

FloatingRock on July 31, 2011 at 11:08 AM

I hope Santa was good to you at Christmas because Congress apparently isn’t going to grant any of your preferences.

Cindy Munford on July 31, 2011 at 11:11 AM

Since I oppose government corruption I appose Boehner’s sham bill. I think, since Boehner has already lost and the party’s over, tea partiers should push for a clean, corruption free bill at this point to raise the debt ceiling, preferably for only a short time, 6 months at most.

FloatingRock on July 31, 2011 at 11:14 AM

Need to challenge the constitutionality of that…… The president can’t have the authority to do that. Congress is rife with stupidity.

ultracon on July 31, 2011 at 11:14 AM

$2.4 trillion more borrowed in 2 years, or even less time? That’s sick. They truly don’t get it. Then we’ll hit $20 trillion in debt by 2015, when we will be completely screwed. We might as well default today and begin to work to pick up the pieces, rather than put it off any longer. If only we could turn the clock back to the day Obama took office and we were only at a paltry $10.5 trillion debt instead of the $14.5 trillion we’re at today!

Paul-Cincy on July 31, 2011 at 11:14 AM

Agree that the establishment types have the upper hand and deserves to be routed. I would take comfort if the house manages to stall long enough to pass whatever it is until Wednesday for Obie’s signature. Would be interesting to see if he cancels his birthday bash to sign it in DC or if he autopens it from Chicago.

AH_C on July 31, 2011 at 11:14 AM

tea partiers should push for a clean, corruption free bill at this point to raise the debt ceiling, preferably for only a short time, 6 months at most.

FloatingRock on July 31, 2011 at 11:14 AM

That Obama got to borrow past 2012 is a major defeat for conservatives and the Tea Party.

Paul-Cincy on July 31, 2011 at 11:16 AM

With a clean, 6 month extension to the credit limit, I don’t see how the socialists or corporatists can decline. There only defense is that they worked hard for all the corruption in their crooked bill and insist on getting their just rewards.

FloatingRock on July 31, 2011 at 11:17 AM

…to which my response to the socialists and corporatists would be, you’ll get your just rewards in November of ’12.

FloatingRock on July 31, 2011 at 11:19 AM

So If Obama decides the cuts, what’s to stop him from deciding to make all the cuts in 2022, when he won’t be around to ensure they will be enacted? Wouldn’t that meet the requirements?

Fezzik on July 31, 2011 at 11:20 AM

I need some Hobbit dollars to send back as donations.

golfmann on July 31, 2011 at 11:20 AM

I’ve got a little clue for the President and his propaganda machine, a recovery isn’t about the number of jobs lost in fact the more lost the faster job recovery happens, recoveries are about job creation not about jobs lost.

Speakup on July 31, 2011 at 11:20 AM

Collectivists of every stripe believes that only thing that has stood athwart all their grand failures of the past is individualism and the capitalist compunction. America has long been seen as the beacon of this ethos, though I’d argue that beam has been reduced to a flicker, and as such the only entity thats left between humanity and their dystopian nirvanna. This is why they no budget plan or any other credilble answers to today’s problems, America, The Republic, is the problem. Their laser focus to the sabotage of our system as proof of its dysfunction extends no further than its collapse.

Then, and only then, will the universe be magically replete with unicorns and skittles and everyone’s porridge will just right. But then therein lies the catch, its porridge! No steaks, no lobsters, not even any bacon-double-cheeseburgers! No everthing is a decided for you, equally bland, flat, and indistinguishable, nothingness that robs the soul of any of the flavor of life. The challenge, the opportunity to risk success and failure and reap the rewards their of in the name of protecting the “greater good”.

Archimedes on July 31, 2011 at 10:10 AM

Except for the progressives themselves. Brain workers need the milk and apples, doncha know?

ebrown2 on July 31, 2011 at 11:23 AM

Here are the latest contours of the proposed plan. I don’t like Rubin, but she seems to have well-placed sources,
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/post/inside-the-debt-ceiling-negotiations/2011/03/29/gIQA9APLlI_blog.html
Boehner Plus with possibility of BBA if no agreement in Super Committee.

txmomof6 on July 31, 2011 at 11:28 AM

Southernblogger on July 31, 2011 at 10:13 AM

Unless those 2.4 trillion in cuts are coming prior to say Jan 5, 2013, when the new congress takes over, then we aren’t getting 2.4 trillion in cuts. If they are coming by then we don’t need a debt ceiling raise. This is an all around loss for fiscal responsibility. Spin it how you like but it is Wimpy economics on steroids.

chemman on July 31, 2011 at 11:30 AM

..I dunno, Ed. from the original AP article it seems like there are too many outs for the Dems:

McConnell said the deal being worked on, while raising the debt ceiling in two stages, would satisfy Obama’s demand that there not be another divisive debate before next year’s election. The scenario being discussed would raise the debt ceiling unless there is a two-thirds majority in both houses of Congress to reject it.

Sperling said Obama has presented three principles that the final package must meet: a significant down payment on deficit reduction, major entitlement and tax reform at a later date, and an end to the uncertainty created by the threat of the nation’s defaulting on the debt. He said the nation doesn’t want to “go through this mess again around the holidays.”

Firstly, I did not know the re-election campaign was considered a holiday and, secondly, we all sat through that repugnant Christmas eve vote on Obamacare. Personally, I would not mind seeing all of these politicians get a lump of coal in their stockings for a change.

The War Planner on July 31, 2011 at 11:32 AM

Personally, I would not mind seeing all of these politicians get a lump of coal in their stockings for a change.

The War Planner on July 31, 2011 at 11:32 AM

I’d like to give them a lump of coal and not in their stockings.

darwin-t on July 31, 2011 at 11:35 AM

We need an intervention here. They are spendaholics rationalizing their addiction.

This deal sucks and if the socialists wont quit spending, then we should go to default and get them some rehab.

dogsoldier on July 31, 2011 at 11:35 AM

What don’t these yoyos in DC not understand? We don’t have representative government in order to hand off major decisions to a few backroom dealers and commissions.

President Faculty Lounge is a failure on all counts.

onlineanalyst on July 31, 2011 at 11:40 AM

I do not believe them.

Also, according to The Hill this plan will add $7 trillion to the debt in exchange for $2.8 trillion in cuts. How many of these cut are bookkeeping tricks or “perceived” saving by ending all wars? How many of these cuts will we actually see happen?

This cannot be allowed to pass or our country is screwed!

I’m calling this the Screw America Again Act of 2011.

jackal40 on July 31, 2011 at 11:43 AM

I still stand by my prediction made weeks ago. There will be no tax increases, no spending cuts and the debt will increase unimpaired. We did not get trillions in debt by accident. The charade only concerns the rate of increase. When the minions jump and shout the politicians slow down the increase, create drama and then appear to ride to the rescue. We are in the slow down phase. Soon, next year in fact, the spending will again jump as we will be in campaign mode.

patrick neid on July 31, 2011 at 11:45 AM

On the bright side of this: Some of the public has been made aware of the “baseline” spending automatic budget increases, which facilitate the ever increasing spending without calling it an increase in spending. Will one of the Republican candidates take eliminating this as a campaign position? Is getting rid of that “baseline” ruse too tough for RINOs, or for any congress members? It sure frosts me to hear everyone refer to reductions in the amount of future increases as “spending cuts.”

GaltBlvnAtty on July 31, 2011 at 11:46 AM

The whole problem is the fraudulent way they do budgeting in the first place (when they actually pass a budget). They apparently have built in increases out into the future. I have no idea what the % is, but it is automatically built into the future spending. And EVERYTHING that is currently funded is included in perpetual funding with automatic increases into the future. So when they talk about “cuts”, it just means they will increase it less than planned in the future, but it will still by HIGHER than now.

They NEVER go and look at each agency, each program and decide whether those agencies or programs met their objective in the past year and are worthy of being funded again for the next year.

To make it worse, apparently a lot of that stimulus finding got added to the baseline, from what I have been reading.

The weird thing is, according to Rand Paul, if we just FROZE spending at the current level, the out years would show a 9.5 trillion $$ spending cut. Not sure where he got his numbers, but it just shows how weird this whole process is.

I just don’t understand why we don’t roll back the funding to the 2008 levels for everything. Since they have not given recipients a raise in their social security check in about 3 years, this would be possible.

Why aren’t they starting there? This should not be that hard to do.

It makes me so damn angry that these asshats in congress have the arrogance to just keep spending at insane levels.

I am proud of my congress critter. He is a tea party freshman and voted NO this week. Justin Amish in Michigan. For those who can, visit his website and donate for his 2012 campaign, we need more of him in DC.

karenhasfreedom on July 31, 2011 at 11:48 AM

What really irks me about the deal is this:

Conservatives/Tea partiers are called “extremists”, “hobbits”, “purists”… for demanding that a 2/3rds majority in both houses of Congress pass a BBA. But they are realists for demanding a 2/3rds majority to block the debt limit increase?

TheRightMan on July 31, 2011 at 11:48 AM

angryed on July 31, 2011 at 10:11 AM

that is a patently stupid statement. where is the data backing your assertion for that “average”? and America is not and has never been an empire. and for the first 150 years of the United States we pretty much stayed to ourselves. stop posting such idiotic drivel

chasdal on July 31, 2011 at 11:49 AM

If Obama thinks he’s going to lose, he’s going to max out the credit card before the end of this term. Genius, GOP, pure genius.

The GOP will betray you

True_King on July 31, 2011 at 11:49 AM

dogsoldier on July 31, 2011 at 11:35 AM

I think there is room for an intervention if there is a groundswell of support for a clean, short term hike in the debt ceiling. The uproar would have to be loud, though, so talk radio and blogs and so forth would have to get behind it.

Even if the effort fails it still provides another opportunity to expose the Ruling Class’ corruption.

FloatingRock on July 31, 2011 at 11:50 AM

If Obama thinks he’s going to lose, he’s going to max out the credit card before the end of this term. Genius, GOP, pure genius.

The GOP will betray you

True_King on July 31, 2011 at 11:49 AM

Kind of like people that go into rehab and down a bottle of vodka before they walk through the door.

TxAnn56 on July 31, 2011 at 11:51 AM

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