Open thread: Boehnergeddon; Update: Vote delayed; Update: Boehner may hold vote whether he has the votes or not

posted at 5:29 pm on July 28, 2011 by Allahpundit

In case you can’t get to a TV to watch live, here’s C-SPAN’s streaming video feed. The vote is set to happen between 5:45 and 6:15 p.m. ET — unless, of course, Boehner’s coalition falls apart and he ends up yanking the bill in humiliation. If you missed the last update in the previous thread, that seemed increasingly likely as of 4 p.m.:

Boehner and his lieutenants are publicly expressing confidence, but their actions clearly show that they are still rounding up support. Boehner on Thursday afternoon was seen lobbying members, seeking “yes” votes in what is the biggest vote of his Speakership.

There are 22 House Republicans who will vote no or are leaning no, according to The Hill’s whip count. There are more than three dozen Republicans who are publicly undecided, and 12 of them said or suggested on Thursday that they are still on the fence.

Remember, he can only afford to lose 24 Republicans; as of 4:35 p.m. ET, The Hill’s whip count has him losing … 25. Jeff Flake suggested he’d be open to passing Reid’s bill if and only if a balanced-budget amendment is tacked on. That’s a clever ploy insofar as it would isolate the BBA as the sticking point in the negotiations. If Democrats are prepared to shoot that down and embrace a default, let them explain to the public why forcing Congress to balance its budget each year is worth tanking the economy over.

Ironically, Reid probably doesn’t have the votes to get his own bill through the Senate. Joe Manchin has already said he won’t vote for either bill, and I’ve heard nothing about Scott Brown or the Maine twins breaking ranks with the GOP. Guy Benson flags a HuffPo story, in fact, that suggests Reid won’t even bring his bill to the floor. And indeed, just as I’m writing this, here’s what the Journal is reporting:

According to a senior Senate Democratic aide, Majority Leader Harry Reid (D., Nev.) will invite Republican leaders to propose changes to a plan he supports to raise the $14.29 trillion debt ceiling and cut more than $2 trillion from federal budget deficits.

The aide said that Mr. Reid will put Republicans on the clock, setting a deadline for them to put forward a workable solution to resolving the parties’ differences on how to raise the borrowing limit. If they fail to take up the offer, the aide said that Mr. Reid will hold a straight up-or-down vote on his proposal in “coming days.”

“That would be the last opportunity to avert default and it will be on Republicans,” the aide said.

There’s more to say but things are moving fast, so let’s get this thread up now. Updates to come, so please stand by.

Update: Surprise — they’re pushing the vote back until later tonight, which can only mean that they still don’t have the votes. I wonder if they’re still trying to chase people down or if Boehner has now secretly abandoned his own bill and is taking Reid up on his offer of some sort of compromise. Maybe instead of a vote tonight, we’ll get the announcement of a deal.

Update: Lots of buzz on Twitter over this report in the Columbus Dispatch about Jim Jordan’s seat possibly being eliminated as punishment for yesterday’s “unpleasantness” in the caucus meeting. I’d bet the mortgage against it happening: The last thing House Republicans need next year is open warfare with tea partiers, which is exactly what they’d get if Jordan was axed for vindictive reasons. Boehner’s already issued a statement dismissing the whole thing.

And speaking of war between the caucus and the tea party, here’s Palin’s new Facebook message warning the freshmen that “Everyone I talk to still believes in contested primaries.” I can’t wait for the primary campaign against Allen West. Can we have one against Paul Ryan too?

Update: Fox’s Ed Henry confirms that Boehner doesn’t have the votes.

Update: Wondering which groups will be first to get paid by Treasury come next week when we hit the ceiling? The answer may surprise you!

Officials have said repeatedly that Treasury does not have the legal authority to pay bills based on political, moral or economic considerations. It cannot, for instance, set aside invoices from weapons companies to preserve money for children’s programs.

The implication is that the government will need to pay bills in the order that they come due. President Obama has warned as a result that the government “cannot guarantee” payments of Social Security benefits or other popular programs. Officials also have disputed the assertion of some Republicans that the government could prioritize interest payments.

Treasury’s going to hold a briefing tomorrow — after the markets close — on how it plans to prioritize payments. Although I suspect Congress will intervene and at least pass something ordering them to pay creditors first, then the military, then entitlements, etc.

Update: One of the silver linings in this very dark cloud is that it’s driven Democrats to get extra creative with their demagoguery. Guy Benson has a nifty round-up of that in case you’re bored while waiting for the vote. My favorite? I honestly can’t decide between the White House lamenting that the GOP’s going to steal Christmas and Pelosi warning that the GOP budget would threaten “life on this planet as we know it today.”

Update: I’m thinking about this passage from Keith Hennessey’s post on why he grudgingly supports Boehner’s bill:

Months of conservative threats have defined who is responsible if there is a crisis in August. A few vocal conservative Members have argued for months that default isn’t so bad, that they are willing to risk a cash crunch in early August, and that they don’t believe Secretary Geithner’s August 2nd deadline. This has been quite effective. It shifted the leverage and ensuing negotiations enough so that this week only the President is talking about tax increases and he sounds odd doing so. Markets and Washington alike are afraid that conservatives might actually tempt fate and prevent a debt limit increase, and that fear has created leverage to produce the current legislative situation.

The downside of this tactic is that if the deadline passes without legislation, you can’t turn around and blame the other guy for whatever damage occurs in August. For months the President has been saying “August 2nd is a deadline,” while a vocal faction of Republicans has been saying “No, it isn’t.” If conservatives vote no, Congress does not act, and bad things happen after August 2nd, those Republicans will get the blame because they assigned it to themselves over the prior few months.

That’s a huge risk even if Boehner’s bill passes. If it doesn’t pass and we hit the ceiling, then the Democrats can lacquer their talking point by claiming that conservatives insisted on hitting the ceiling and risking an economic earthquake even over the objections of their own leadership. That’s a hard, hard narrative to combat; as our Greenroomer Karl has argued lately, the average voter cares less about deficits and Cut, Cap, and Balance than he does about jobs and the recovery. Right now that dynamic favors the GOP, but if the post-August 2nd fallout is bad and the “runaway caucus” meme takes hold, that could change. Not a good day for the long game.

Update: Why on earth would Boehner do this?

One lawmaker tells me that Speaker Boehner may have the vote in about an hour, whether he has the votes or not

If the outcome’s in doubt, just pull the bill and announce that your hand was forced by Reid’s ultimatum to shoot it down in the Senate. Say you’re acting in the interest of the public good because there’s not much time until the deadline and obviously a compromise bill is the only thing capable of passing both houses. By holding a vote when he doesn’t know the outcome, he’s gambling that the holdouts will blink and hand him a victory under intense pressure. But if he’s wrong, his credibility as a power-broker will be shattered and the vote will enable precisely the sort of Democratic outcome I described in the last update. I don’t get it.

A note of hope from NRO’s Andrew Stiles: “Paul Ryan tells me they’re gonna pass this thing. Says he’s confident.”

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If grandma does not get her SS check on time, the Republicans will be blamed. There is no win for us on this.

Really Right on July 28, 2011 at 9:11 PM

Not gonna happen. It is paid by a different fund. Plus the s**t will hit the fan for whoever dares to do that. Get real.

derft on July 28, 2011 at 9:17 PM

Keyser: I can appreciate the Marine mentality. Having a close friend who was in Marine recon in Vietnam, I can tell you I understand the utility of that training.

However, I do not think that it applies here. The GOP leadership made a pledge to restrain spending. I have yet to see any such restraint. To me, that pledge is all-but-broken, and I would hope that, as a Marine, you will understand when I say that I find that type of issue… dishonorable.

This is not a combat operation, where a clear chain of command may be all that prevents the death of an entire unit. This is a social, political, and ethical struggle for the fate of our country. If we are going to invoke military discipline for the caucus, perhaps the leadership should adequately explain how their direction is honorable?

Scott H on July 28, 2011 at 9:17 PM

Legislation headed back to rules committee. Expect market collapse tomorrow. This is really not good.

andy85719 on July 28, 2011 at 9:00 PM

F*** the market – they’re seeing reality – we have no money and no sideshow dress-up game is going to change that.

This is all going to happen anyway when the BIG default happens anyway. Why not just deal with it now.

Sell your stocks – and buy them back when the market hits rock bottom.

Or just give the Dims everything they want so you don’t have worry about your sack getting cold. It’s what’s you want to do anyway.

HondaV65 on July 28, 2011 at 9:17 PM

amandacarpenter Amanda Carpenter
@SenRandPaul tells Hannity, “If they tweak it to Cut, Cap, and Balance I know they can get 234 votes”
1 minute ago Favorite Retweet Reply

steebo77 on July 28, 2011 at 9:17 PM

(is it just me)?

Tim_CA on July 28, 2011 at 9:07 PM

Nope. I’m there with ya. There’s a certain stench.

katy the mean old lady on July 28, 2011 at 9:18 PM

Boehner’s new bill will also be DOA in the Senate. Reid and his entire conference have already committed to that. Obama is committed to vetoing it anyway. If that is the case, why doesn’t Boehner shout from the rooftops that the ball is in the Democrats court and that Reid needs to take it up? The House GOP has already done its job. The Democrats and Obama need to be held responsible

steebo77 on July 28, 2011 at 9:15 PM

Roger that!

SheetAnchor on July 28, 2011 at 9:18 PM

14 Conservative Senators will vote no on House bill if it gets to the Senate…..

idesign on July 28, 2011 at 9:18 PM

GOP: Ya gotta know when to hold ‘em and when to fold ‘em. Don’t fold. Re-deal the CCB plan and hold it.

http://tinyurl.com/ynz8gz

predator on July 28, 2011 at 9:18 PM

Sen. Rand Paul on Hannity: “The Boehner plan is not going to be law, so why lose your principles to vote for it?”

steebo77 on July 28, 2011 at 9:20 PM

Republicans lose if the bill passes and if it doesn’t. If it doesn’t then the Democrats can say that Republicans are trying to destroy America and its economy. If it passes, then the Dems water it down until it looks like an original Democrat plan and sooner than later the US looses its AAA rating and we eventually go broke, all the while the Dems will say that the Republicans were equally as responsible for the nation going broke because they also voted for it. We should have stood for what was right, even if we took heat for it. That is what American’s are looking for… Politicians that have courage and stand by what is right even when they know they will be tarred and feathered for it. How hard was it for the few politicians that voted against TARP even though they were told that this was the end of the world and we had to sign it or America would fall. Its the same game and great leaders have to do what is right, eventually even their enemies will respect them for their stand, if it is just and right.

SGinNC on July 28, 2011 at 9:21 PM

The worst part of this is that our Capitol a stunning building. It’s worthy of so much more.

SouthernGent on July 28, 2011 at 9:02 PM

Ain’t that the truth.

Tim_CA on July 28, 2011 at 9:21 PM

The GOP leadership made a pledge to restrain spending.

This seems to be the crux of the hard-line argument. And I dot mean hard-line as a negative. However, many in the GOP have pledged to repeal Roe. They also pledged to repeal O’Care. And on that one, they did. At least as much as they could. They voted to repeal it and it passed the House. They also voted for and passed Ryan’s budget. It not perfect, but it makes the effort. They also voted for and passed CCB.

The problem isn’t -in my view- that they’re not holding up to their pledge, it’s that the Constitution forbids them from doing it alone. If you haven’t read Ap’s narration on the new blog, I’d recommend it. He says it much better than I; but as you read it, see if any of it sounds familiar…

BKeyser on July 28, 2011 at 9:21 PM

Nope. I’m there with ya. There’s a certain stench.

katy the mean old lady on July 28, 2011 at 9:18 PM

good…thanks (lmao)

Tim_CA on July 28, 2011 at 9:22 PM

Just clicked the CSPAN link and, ugh, there was The Pelosi.

Back to the Twins game, post haste…

Bruno Strozek on July 28, 2011 at 9:23 PM

pass the damb bill…

TimeTraveler on July 28, 2011 at 9:00 PM

This endorsement proves that we conservatives are right about stopping this awful bill…

CCRWM on July 28, 2011 at 9:25 PM

Tim_CA on July 28, 2011 at 9:21 PM

Just an aside- I appreciate your fighting for what you believe in; I believe in all the same things. My tactics to achieve them are slightly different, but we are on the same team. No offense toward you was ever intended. Ultimately, I hope you’re right and I’m proven wrong.

BKeyser on July 28, 2011 at 9:25 PM

hey what ever happened to the concept of bills going through committes and having public debate on them?

I take it the idea of a citizen government is a non starter anymore and whatever the speaker, Senate majority leader and minority leader and the POTUs wants they get….

Here is an idea start a couple months before hand, send up bills through the committee process getting public input having comittees vote it out of comittee onto the floor.

this crap aboout 4 people writting a bill behind closed doors and expecting their members to fall in line to vote for whatever these four dictators tell them too is not what this country was founded on.

The entire idea disgusted me with Obamacare and it is disgusting me with this bill.

unseen on July 28, 2011 at 9:26 PM

Keyser: Yes, let’s take Obamacare as a parallel.

How would you react if, after the Obamacare repeal didn’t pass the Senate, the GOP House then wrote a bill that only tweaked the numbers on Obamacare?

That’s where I am now. I was mostly okay with CC&B. Why couldn’t they just have stayed there?

And yes, I do realize that’s not where we are NOW. But think about that argument for a second. What happens if Boehner next introduces a bill that extends the debt ceiling through the next election? Are you going to tell me that we should pass it, because that’s what’s on the table NOW?

Where does that argument end?

I also disagree with the idea that the Constitution forbids them from restraining spending. The Constitution is the authority that actually gives them that power. If the House of Representatives doesn’t want to fund something, it doesn’t get funded.

I think your argument is that the media forbids them from doing it alone. But this boils down to ‘running from the media’, and I’ve already stated my stance on that.

Scott H on July 28, 2011 at 9:26 PM

Just clicked the CSPAN link and, ugh, there was The Pelosi.

Back to the Twins game, post haste…

Bruno Strozek on July 28, 2011 at 9:23 PM

I am so sorry you had to go through that. Our thoughts and prayers are with you.

neuquenguy on July 28, 2011 at 9:26 PM

Since it appears that Boehner’s still having problems getting the needed votes, and is now considering changing it to get those votes, why not substitute CCB for the current bill and send it, once again, to the Senate.

I’m at the f-ck it stage at this point.

TXUS on July 28, 2011 at 9:27 PM

BKeyser on July 28, 2011 at 9:25 PM

;-)

Tim_CA on July 28, 2011 at 9:28 PM

Bruno Strozek on July 28, 2011 at 9:23 PM

Sorry, Go Rangers

derft on July 28, 2011 at 9:29 PM

Just clicked the CSPAN link and, ugh, there was The Pelosi.

Back to the Twins game, post haste…

Bruno Strozek on July 28, 2011 at 9:23 PM

I am so sorry you had to go through that. Our thoughts and prayers are with you.

neuquenguy on July 28, 2011 at 9:26 PM

Good Lord man…talk about needing a “gateway drug”!!

Tim_CA on July 28, 2011 at 9:30 PM

The sweetest part of the House cluster is that it’s entirely self-inflicted.

It wasn’t the Democrats who decided to hold the nation’s full faith and credit hostage just to get a leg up in 2012. That piece of work belongs to the teabag Republicans.

Teabag Republicans make Wiley Coyote look like Burt Rutan.
This is fun!

chumpThreads on July 28, 2011 at 9:31 PM

Scott H on July 28, 2011 at 9:26 PM

Actually, Scott, my argument was never on the merits of this Boehner bill. I was actually more unnerved the whole time he was in talks with Obama. This bill does nothing, accept what was bound to happen anyway. There is no way the debt-limit isn’t increased at some point. If it happens after August 2nd, you can bet it will be a huge capitulation from our side. Pure surrender.

Personally, I’d rather it get done now and force Barry to have to deal with it again during the campaign, then to hand him an all out victory -which is what capitulation will look like.

BKeyser on July 28, 2011 at 9:31 PM

here is the deal per Rand Paul.

A yes vote for the house bill means the bill will go to the senate where the dems will tweek it, load it up pass it and send it back to the house where it WiLL pass because every dem will vote for it and the doom and gloomers in the GOP huse will say its the best we can get.

Thus if we pass this bill we get Reid’s bill in toto. a No vote on this bill means the dems will only have CCB to work with.

Screw this bill, screw the people that for the last 23 years have gotten us into this mess. Screw them all. do not pass this bill. Do not wave the white flag. fight damn you. fight for your country’s future. If not now when, if not us who?

unseen on July 28, 2011 at 9:32 PM

Krauthammer’s right. Pass the damn bill. Sowell’s right. Pass the damn bill.

I don’t like it either. But, pass the damn bill.

Pablo Snooze on July 28, 2011 at 9:04 PM

Said with such conviction as if we don’t know you aren’t a conservative

CCRWM on July 28, 2011 at 9:32 PM

The sweetest part of the House cluster is that it’s entirely self-inflicted.

It wasn’t the Democrats who decided to hold the nation’s full faith and credit hostage just to get a leg up in 2012. That piece of work belongs to the teabag Republicans.

Teabag Republicans make Wiley Coyote look like Burt Rutan.
This is fun!

chumpThreads on July 28, 2011 at 9:31 PM

Seriously….this one’s waaaaaaaay better! She’s got the talking points word for word…..crr6 always seems to “wing it”.

Tim_CA on July 28, 2011 at 9:33 PM

There are moments in life while you age and continue to be educated that you notice how amazingly scary it is when the people leading this nation are just so totally clueless. Even the ones you help elect are completely unattached from reality. This vote is a case in point. Vote it in, work towards getting Obama out of office and then go for the gusto. This is like planning to invade Berlin on D-Day plus one. Victory in stages, and if you blow this one, Republicans…it’s game over. You will be blamed for the entire mess. Think tactical, and wait for election day for the grand strategies.

Hening on July 28, 2011 at 9:34 PM

Good Lord man…talk about needing a “gateway drug”!!

Tim_CA on July 28, 2011 at 9:30 PM

Did I actually need a sarc tag?

neuquenguy on July 28, 2011 at 9:35 PM

Keyser: I am more interested in hearing why you think the House of Representatives does not have the power to fund or defund agencies.

Oh, and I’m very clearly seeing that any increase in the debt ceiling is a huge capitulation from our side. Before August 2nd or after August 2nd matters not, from my perspective.

I disagree (as you should know) that the debt ceiling needs to be increased at all. That’s a liberal belief that almost everyone here has completely swallowed.

I simply do not understand why the GOP fears not raising the debt ceiling. We get blamed for everything regardless. To paraphrase the Bible, “If you are going to get blamed for something, it is better to be blamed for good than for evil.”

Scott H on July 28, 2011 at 9:35 PM

The sweetest part of the House cluster is that it’s entirely self-inflicted.

It wasn’t the Democrats who decided to hold the nation’s full faith and credit hostage just to get a leg up in 2012. That piece of work belongs to the teabag Republicans.

Teabag Republicans make Wiley Coyote look like Burt Rutan.
This is fun!

chumpThreads on July 28, 2011 at 9:31 PM

NO. The Democrats decided that they would sell their souls and their tradition and help elect a socialist to the most powerful position in the Free World.

And then, they intentionally ruined the finest Healthcare System in the world, going against the wishes the American people, passing an unconstitutional bill in the dark of night.

You should be embarrassed by their behavior…but you’re not.

kingsjester on July 28, 2011 at 9:35 PM

Did I actually need a sarc tag?

neuquenguy on July 28, 2011 at 9:35 PM

Not at all sir….I was just in need of my evening gateway drug…Knob Creek rock’s with a splash.

Tim_CA on July 28, 2011 at 9:37 PM

idesign on July 28, 2011 at 9:18 PM

I thot Reid said he’d table this also as he did the CCB. Or has there been another change? Going to amend it first and then vote on it and send it to the House?

Haven’t read all the comments here, as I’ve been reading other sites to see what the latest is.

bluefox on July 28, 2011 at 9:41 PM

steebo77 on July 28, 2011 at 9:17 PM
Saw that! Love it.

txmomof6 on July 28, 2011 at 9:41 PM

NO. The Democrats decided that they would sell their souls and their tradition and help elect a socialist to the most powerful position in the Free World.

Non-sequitur.

And then, they intentionally ruined the finest Healthcare System in the world, going against the wishes the American people, passing an unconstitutional bill in the dark of night.

Non-sense.

kingsjester on July 28, 2011 at 9:35 PM

Non-entity.

chumpThreads on July 28, 2011 at 9:42 PM

Posted this on the other thread, but it is good here also,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SGyVNippvA&feature=share

txmomof6 on July 28, 2011 at 9:44 PM

I thot Reid said he’d table this also as he did the CCB. Or has there been another change? Going to amend it first and then vote on it and send it to the House?

Haven’t read all the comments here, as I’ve been reading other sites to see what the latest is.

bluefox on July 28, 2011 at 9:41 PM

Sorry, I should have quoted the statement to Rand Paul.

idesign on July 28, 2011 at 9:45 PM

chumpThreads on July 28, 2011 at 9:42 PM

Non compos mentis.

kingsjester on July 28, 2011 at 9:46 PM

I am more interested in hearing why you think the House of Representatives does not have the power to fund or defund agencies.

Laws in the country must be approved by all three branches of government. We’re operating on a CR and the funds for this year have already been appropriated. At least that’s my understanding. Someone can correct me if I’m wrong.

What’s about to happen is we won’t be able to meet the obligations we’ve already set for ourselves. At some point during August, we’ll run out of money. The reason for the debt-limit increase is so that we can borrow more money to meet these obligations. (I apologize if this sounds elementary- I’m thinking it out as I’m typing.) We’ll take in some more revenue in September but that comes in the for of tax payments and payroll withholdings. We’ll certainly not meet the obligations for September.

Then, on Sept 30th, the rest of the government shuts down if the Senate doesn’t pass an budget and the House ratifies it. This is why there are more bites at the apple as some have aptly put it. We simply can’t just shut it all down, even though in some ways I’d almost prefer that.

Here, try this and see what you think.

BKeyser on July 28, 2011 at 9:47 PM

chumpThreads on July 28, 2011 at 9:42 PM

I’m telling y’all….she’s even mastered formatting…..this is like crr6 but with a partially operating upper cortex……can we keep her??? Please??

Tim_CA on July 28, 2011 at 9:47 PM

I simply do not understand why the GOP fears not raising the debt ceiling. We get blamed for everything regardless. To paraphrase the Bible, “If you are going to get blamed for something, it is better to be blamed for good than for evil.”

Scott H on July 28, 2011 at 9:35 PM

Oh stop the moral preening. I think we should pay all our obligations that have been appropriated. Thus the ceiling must be raised to get us through that much.

I also think raising the debt ceiling should be short short short term and tackled every time there is an appropriations bill.

MaggiePoo on July 28, 2011 at 9:49 PM

I also think raising the debt ceiling should be short short short term and tackled every time there is an appropriations bill.

MaggiePoo on July 28, 2011 at 9:49 PM

You do realize the debt ceiling has NEVER been lowered right?

Tim_CA on July 28, 2011 at 9:51 PM

I’m telling y’all….she’s even mastered formatting…..this is like crr6 but with a partially operating upper cortex……can we keep her??? Please??

Tim_CA on July 28, 2011 at 9:47 PM

Non compos mentis.

That was easy.

chumpThreads on July 28, 2011 at 9:51 PM

Keyser: Hmm. This is certainly not what I’ve heard about our financial situation.

And BTW, we’re not talking about ‘laws that must be approved by all three branches of government’. We’re talking about NOT doing something. There is no Constitutional requirement to fund almost anything.

Also, I’ll state that if the 2012 budget doesn’t reset our spending to AT LEAST 2008 levels (if not before), I’m not sure how anyone can take the GOP seriously.

Scott H on July 28, 2011 at 9:52 PM

I’m telling y’all….she’s even mastered formatting…..this is like crr6 but with a partially operating upper cortex……can we keep her??? Please??

Tim_CA on July 28, 2011 at 9:47 PM

Don’t forget the bonus points for Tig troofer.

katy the mean old lady on July 28, 2011 at 9:53 PM

MaggiePoo: I could probably agree to this. Tell me… is the debt ceiling increase more or less than what is needed to get past 9/30/2011?

After that, any further debt ceiling increase should be verboten. If we do not pay our debt down, that would leave less money to spend elsewhere. Kind of like how normal people have to act.

Scott H on July 28, 2011 at 9:54 PM

You do realize the debt ceiling has NEVER been lowered right?

Tim_CA on July 28, 2011 at 9:51 PM

oops!! ’43 & ’44 after the war….sorry…not that old (just feel like it).

Tim_CA on July 28, 2011 at 9:55 PM

Don’t forget the bonus points for Tig troofer.

katy the mean old lady on July 28, 2011 at 9:53 PM

always a personal fave!

Tim_CA on July 28, 2011 at 9:56 PM

Scott H on July 28, 2011 at 9:54 PM

The latest Boehner bill would’ve taken us through the end of the year, is my understanding.

The BBA may be the answer going forward though as it requires expenditures not to exceed revenues except for times during a declared war or imminent threat. It would also require a super majority to raise taxes or overturn the law.

Boehner’s bill did have a separate vote for the BBA attached.

BKeyser on July 28, 2011 at 9:59 PM

Keyser: My point is that is if it went past 9/30/2011, it exceeds what is necessary. Therefore, avoiding default can’t be the only reason that specific value was chosen, no?

Scott H on July 28, 2011 at 10:01 PM

Scott H on July 28, 2011 at 10:01 PM

I don’t know how the date was chosen, other than to think it had to do with the amount of spending cuts.

The GOP position has always been 1:1 spending cuts to debt-limit increase. I assume Boehner identified (by some form or fashion that isn’t clear to me) x number of dollars in spending cuts -over ten years- and that number in debt-limit increase now projects out to sometime around the end of the year.

BKeyser on July 28, 2011 at 10:07 PM

I think we should pay all our obligations that have been appropriated. Thus the ceiling must be raised to get us through that much.

I also think raising the debt ceiling should be short short short term and tackled every time there is an appropriations bill.

MaggiePoo on July 28, 2011 at 9:49 PM

There is nothing appropriated past the end of this fiscal year, i.e. 9/30/11 because they have not passed a budget. So what about after that?

txmomof6 on July 28, 2011 at 10:11 PM

The GOP position has always been 1:1 spending cuts to debt-limit increase. I assume Boehner identified (by some form or fashion that isn’t clear to me) x number of dollars in spending cuts -over ten years- and that number in debt-limit increase now projects out to sometime around the end of the year.

BKeyser on July 28, 2011 at 10:07 PM

Keeping in mind that said “future cuts” are unenforcable.

Forget all of the “future cuts”….ain’t gonna happen. Concentrate on the immediates…..that’s all you’re gonna get.

Beleive it
Bet on it
Be ready to live it

Tim_CA on July 28, 2011 at 10:14 PM

Tim_CA on July 28, 2011 at 10:14 PM

Hence my “(by some form or fashion that isn’t clear to me)” and “-over ten years-” disclaimers.

I’m not happy about it either.

BKeyser on July 28, 2011 at 10:16 PM

The GOP will betray you
God help us
True_King on July 28, 2011 at 7:21 PM

Not yet. We sent plenty of reinforcements last year. I am glad we did. It is not over yet. I think we made good choices last year.

Remember it will take a couple of cleansing to get the job done. We are on the right track.

antisocial on July 28, 2011 at 10:28 PM

No vote tonight… Fox reports

PA Guy on July 28, 2011 at 10:30 PM

Not yet. We sent plenty of reinforcements last year. I am glad we did. It is not over yet. I think we made good choices last year.

Remember it will take a couple of cleansing to get the job done. We are on the right track.

antisocial on July 28, 2011 at 10:28 PM

From your lips to God’s ear…..problem is our re-inforcements are taking a hell of a beating from boner and his establishment thugs.

He’s trying his best to get “republican slime” all over ‘em.

I’m really proud of the one’s keeping their pledge….makes me beleive that there’s still hope.

Tim_CA on July 28, 2011 at 10:33 PM

There is nothing appropriated past the end of this fiscal year, i.e. 9/30/11 because they have not passed a budget. So what about after that?

txmomof6 on July 28, 2011 at 10:11 PM

And to ScottH too.

Remember a fight’s going to happen when the next CR is due.

MaggiePoo on July 28, 2011 at 10:40 PM

BTW, just saw Crespo(?) (D) on Greta and he said he would vote for a BB Amendment if it were separate.

He has a good point.

Besides, if it’s inside a bill Obama can veto. If Congress writes it on its own it goes directly to the states. The White House has no say in the matter.

MaggiePoo on July 28, 2011 at 10:44 PM

Tim_CA on July 28, 2011 at 10:33 PM

I am glad Boehner is having a hard time getting the votes. That gives me lots of hope (I hate to use that word). He is being dragged into reality that empty rhetoric and gimmicks are not going to be tolerated. He needs to get in line and behave responsibly. We need to get America back to fiscal sanity.

antisocial on July 28, 2011 at 10:51 PM

The Democrats and Obama need to be held responsible

All I can say to this is “Good freaking luck with that.”

jdp629 on July 28, 2011 at 10:54 PM

We need to get America back to fiscal sanity.

And we do that, how, exactly, with socialists running the senate and the white house? Give us a clear path to how we do that and I’m all over it. Give me unicorns and rainbows and lollypops, and, well, I’ve had enough of that stuff already.

jdp629 on July 28, 2011 at 10:57 PM

If grandma does not get her SS check on time, the Republicans will be blamed. There is no win for us on this.

Really Right on July 28, 2011 at 9:11 PM

The win would be easy, if our leaders in the republican party took the opportunity to remind America why we’re in this position in the first place.

Wreckless spending by the democrats, failed stimulus program, perks for their union buddies, failed policies of forcing banks to lends money to deadbeats, that got us to this point.

Reminding America that republicans have taken this issue seriously and put forth several real plans, while the whitehouse and democrats have done nothing but whine and obstruct.

It boggles the mind, that the republican leadership is so passive and so wussified, that they will not get out and fight, even when a perfect win is sitting on a golden platter.

Imagine if democrats were as tough on illegal immigrants and terrorists as they are on republicans and fetuses.

Imagine if republicans were as tough on democrats as they are on terrorists and illegal aliens.

Baffles science. Boehner should have had his lieutenants out on every corner, every LSM outlet, hitting the truth home, but instead, they sit back and play passive, always afraid of the media the leftards.

The only one that’s stood up and said what needs to be said? Sarah Palin, of course.

BruthaMan on July 28, 2011 at 11:06 PM

BruthaMan on July 28, 2011 at 11:06 PM

Exactly!

SheetAnchor on July 28, 2011 at 11:12 PM

Reminding America that republicans have taken this issue seriously and put forth several real plans, while the whitehouse and democrats have done nothing but whine and obstruct.

It boggles the mind, that the republican leadership is so passive and so wussified, that they will not get out and fight, even when a perfect win is sitting on a golden platter.

Imagine if democrats were as tough on illegal immigrants and terrorists as they are on republicans and fetuses.

Imagine if republicans were as tough on democrats as they are on terrorists and illegal aliens.

Baffles science. Boehner should have had his lieutenants out on every corner, every LSM outlet, hitting the truth home, but instead, they sit back and play passive, always afraid of the media the leftards.

Your comments Sir, need to be handed to every Republican in the Congress.

SheetAnchor on July 28, 2011 at 11:17 PM

if our leaders in the republican party took the opportunity to remind America why we’re in this position in the first place.

They do that every single day. Does it ever get onto the front page of your local newspaper? Does it ever get into the top story of your local broadcast news program? No, it doesn’t. And it won’t. We can complain about that or wish it was otherwise or stamp our feet and insist that everybody knows what we know to be true, but politics doesn’t work that way, unfortunately. If you have some magic wand to wave that would make every American voter aware of what the Republicans (and the Democrats) are trying to do about spending, please wave it, because we need it.

jdp629 on July 28, 2011 at 11:17 PM

PELOSI: ‘We’re Trying to Save Life on Planet as We Know it’…

Perfect example above, of the Dems always attacking Republicans. Still waiting the Republican response. Do not hold your breath….

SheetAnchor on July 28, 2011 at 11:20 PM

Governor Palin does not seem to have a problem getting her comments out; and she is officially just a private citizen.

I am sure that if Republicans want airtime, they can get it. I have seen them on television plenty. Boehner and Cantor could be all over the airwaves right now. And they should be hammering Obama and the Dems about no budget in over 2 years; no plan from Obama; no action by Dems on CCB, and BBA; wasted stimulus money; no plan to reverse failed economic policy; failed war in Lybia, etc., etc. The only one who hammers Obama is Palin. She is not afraid and takes all the heat; and her fellow Republicans don’t even have the courage to defend her against unjust attacks. Goodness, they do not even want her to defend herself! The rest I guess are afraid of the MSM, and what the Dems will think. That’s not leadership. That’s failure.

SheetAnchor on July 28, 2011 at 11:36 PM

I get the newspaper from Akron, Ohio, and I haven’t seen a single Palin note or announcement on the front page since the last election cycle. If she’s getting her message out, it’s pretty much only preaching to the choir.

jdp629 on July 28, 2011 at 11:46 PM

You may have seen this already but Keith Hennessey supports the Boehner bill and gives reasons for doing so including strategic ones…

Keith Hennessey

I really do agree with him.

MaggiePoo on July 28, 2011 at 11:54 PM

I get the newspaper from Akron, Ohio, and I haven’t seen a single Palin note or announcement on the front page since the last election cycle. If she’s getting her message out, it’s pretty much only preaching to the choir.

jdp629 on July 28, 2011 at 11:46 PM

Start following the national news online. They almost always carry her Facebook posts, not to mention TV news the new media as well. This has been happening ever since she resigned as Governor of Alaska. Goodness the Wall Street Journal covered her first major speech which was in Hong Kong to an international investment group. See the links below.

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2009/09/23/excerpts-of-sarah-palins-speech-to-investors-in-hong-kong/

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/32979700/ns/politics-more_politics/t/global-investors-hear-palins-main-street-view/

And just in case you did not know, as MSNBC parroted in their story linked above, Palin never said “I can see Russia from my house.” This statement was said by Tina Fey on Saturday Night Live.

SheetAnchor on July 28, 2011 at 11:57 PM

One DEBT to Rule Them All!!!Hold them back! Do not give in to fear! Stand to your posts! FIGHT!

Mutnodjmet on July 28, 2011 at 11:57 PM

I get the newspaper from Akron, Ohio, and I haven’t seen a single Palin note or announcement on the front page since the last election cycle. If she’s getting her message out, it’s pretty much only preaching to the choir.

jdp629 on July 28, 2011 at 11:46 PM

Here is another of her Facebook post today addressing the debt deal situation covered by the NY Times; and that is not the choir.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/07/28/palins-well-timed-reminder-to-freshmen/

SheetAnchor on July 29, 2011 at 12:07 AM

Reminding America that republicans have taken this issue seriously and put forth several real plans, while the whitehouse and democrats have done nothing but whine and obstruct.

Some of you really are quite out of touch with reality and don’t understand how the average Americans perceives the political theatre in DC. No one cares that the Tea Party passed a partisan bill. Anyone can pass a partisan bill. It’s completely irrelevant no matter how much the Tea Party shouts. Not even GOP supporters at the WSJ or Barron’s care the slightest.

The vast majority of Americans understand that in order to govern, you have to craft legislation that’s acceptable to both political parties. The Tea Party has shown zero competence in governance within a democracy. Their inability to realize the importance of compromise to actually achieve results is what independent voters will remember in 2012.

bayam on July 29, 2011 at 12:12 AM

SheetAnchor – I’m aware of what she’s saying. I monitor about a dozen conservative blogs each day. When I see it in my local rag I’ll give credit – but I never do. The ABJ runs day after day with any Republican scandal that comes up from any angle and never bothers to mention any Democract scandal except on page 6 in the fine print if at all.

jdp629 on July 29, 2011 at 12:18 AM

“The Tea Party has shown zero competence in governance within a democracy. Their inability to realize the importance of compromise to actually achieve results is what independent voters will remember in 2012.

bayam on July 29, 2011 at 12:12 AM”

The Tea Party members hold no leadership positions and the results that count were in Nov 2010. They are voting on principal and that is why they were elected. Your just not used to seeing Republicans with a backbone.

Africanus on July 29, 2011 at 12:25 AM

“The Tea Party has shown zero competence in governance within a democracy. Their inability to realize the importance of compromise to actually achieve results is what independent voters will remember in 2012.

bayam on July 29, 2011 at 12:12 AM”

The Tea Party members hold no leadership positions and the results that count were in Nov 2010. They are voting on principal and that is why they were elected. Your just not used to seeing Republicans with a backbone.

Africanus on July 29, 2011 at 12:25 AM

Failing to achieve legislative results doesn’t demonstrate backbone- it’s more of a sign that the Tea Party is suffering from delusions of grandeur. This country was established by the founding fathers as a democracy, where compromise is absolutely required to pass legislation and keep the country on track. The Tea Party is acting like it’s ruling a one party state.

bayam on July 29, 2011 at 12:32 AM

SheetAnchor – I’m aware of what she’s saying. I monitor about a dozen conservative blogs each day. When I see it in my local rag I’ll give credit – but I never do. The ABJ runs day after day with any Republican scandal that comes up from any angle and never bothers to mention any Democract scandal except on page 6 in the fine print if at all.

jdp629 on July 29, 2011 at 12:18 AM

Not a problem my friend. Dems do not vote for Reps anyway; and Ohio turned bright red in the last election.

The country is divided and the next election will determined by voter turnout. Republicans will be in a position to win if they do not nominate someone who cannot generate a big turnout among the 3 legs of the Reps electorate, namely, social conservatives, fiscal conservatives, and national security conservatives. If their ticket cannot generate enthusiastic support among these three groups they lose. Hence the MSM and supportive local media will not decide the election, as Republican voters already know they cannot be trusted.

SheetAnchor on July 29, 2011 at 12:45 AM

No bayam! We are a Democratic-Republic! REPUBLIC!
A “Democracy” is two wolves and a sheep arguing over what to have for dinner. Guess who wins? Sounds like tyranny to me…
What would you do if you were the sheep?
THAT is democracy.

I like how MSNBC is now on a huge rant about how we need to keep printing fiat money and driving up our debt. It’s a joke! Let’s just keep printing the money and repairing roads or something… Wow! THEY GOT SOME STUPID PEEPS OVER THERE…

shorebird on July 29, 2011 at 1:00 AM

The vast majority of Americans understand that in order to govern, you have to craft legislation

bayam on July 29, 2011 at 12:12 AM

Exactly. where is the Democrats’ proposal?

alwaysfiredup on July 29, 2011 at 2:02 AM

Let’s talk about default, because many of you have no clue what we are talking about.

It is true we will have plenty of money to pay the interest on the debt in August, so there is no immediate danger of technical default. BUT to the ratings agencies ANY delayed or skipped payments which were due constitute a “de facto” default, and would also result in a downgrade of our bond rating.

Even if we had a partial government shutdown, if it was an austerity measure passed in law it would okay, but if it is done because there is no money, it’s default. The ratings agencies are judging creditworthiness – just as if you paid your mortgage but skipped your car payment, your credit will still suffer.

So first of all this establishes that anyone who says, “What? Me worry? We have enough money to avoid default without raising the debt ceiling!” is ignorant and should be ignored. Worthy of ridicule, but we save that for the other side.

What would it cost? Well, Italy just saw their 10 year notes jump to 5.77%, and they haven’t defaulted. At least not yet. So if our rating after a default fell only to match theirs, what would it mean?

About $500 billion MORE in interest costs every year, running our annual interest payments to over $700 billion. That’s JUST interest.

So, we should dig that big a hole for America, and rush to share the blame for the mess Obama made of the economy, to prove some point?

Yup, some deep thinkers in these here parts . . .

Adjoran on July 29, 2011 at 3:02 AM

The Tea Party has shown zero competence in governance within a democracy.

bayam on July 29, 2011 at 12:12 AM

You seem to not even know what democracy is, nor who is in the majority these days, and you talk about zero competence. Unreal.

Lon Chaney on July 29, 2011 at 5:44 AM

If the outcome’s in doubt, just pull the bill and announce that your hand was forced…

Again I’d say (for the TRILLIONTHth time) that the GOP does not play the game for keeps, but lately I’m leaning toward them not knowing how to play the game at all.

curved space on July 29, 2011 at 6:44 AM

Oh, the games people play, now.

kingsjester on July 29, 2011 at 7:24 AM

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