Debt-ceiling update: Vote coming tonight … at some point; Update: 10-14 GOP senators against Boehner’s plan? Breaking: No vote tonight; Update: Vote tomorrow; Update: Hoyer now talking about Fourteenth Amendment option

posted at 9:06 pm on July 28, 2011 by Allahpundit

Boehner’s still twisting arms, but as of 8:30 p.m. the vote supposedly will happen tonight. And in a change from earlier, Reid’s promising that the Senate will in fact vote on Boehner’s bill if it passes instead of tabling it.

Krauthammer makes one last plea to push it through:

I have every sympathy with the conservative counterrevolutionaries. Their containment of the Obama experiment has been remarkable. But reversal — rollback, in Cold War parlance — is simply not achievable until conservatives receive a mandate to govern from the White House…

Obama faces two massive problems — jobs and debt. They’re both the result of his spectacularly failed Keynesian gamble: massive spending that left us a stagnant economy with high and chronic unemployment — and a staggering debt burden. Obama is desperate to share ownership of this failure. Economic dislocation from a debt-ceiling crisis precisely serves that purpose — if the Republicans play along. The perfect out: Those crazy tea partiers ruined the recovery!

Why would any conservative collaborate with that ploy? November 2012 constitutes the new conservatism’s one chance to restructure government and change the ideological course of the country. Why risk forfeiting that outcome by offering to share ownership of Obama’s wreckage?

I wasn’t watching, but on O’Reilly tonight Laura Ingraham supposedly asked Steve King, “How is killing your Speaker going to help the Tea Party movement?” On the flip side, Kos tweeted earlier, “I’ve got to say, watching Boehner’s speakership hang in the balance with the GOP divided has been hugely entertaining.” I’m glad someone’s happy.

Lefty Jon Chait makes a fair point in arguing that tonight’s vote really is important even though Boehner’s bill doesn’t have a prayer of passing the Senate as is. If it gets through the House, not only does the GOP get to hammer Reid with the talking point that they’ve passed a modest bill that Senate Dems should have no trouble agreeing to, they get more leverage in negotiating a final compromise with Reid. As things stand, if the bill fails, the risk increases of moderate Republicans in the House or Senate walking away and voting for Reid’s bill just to get something done. Kyl, Coburn, and Hutchison are already set to retire so they have nothing to fear from primaries; Murkowski is set until 2016; Susan Collins isn’t up for reelection until 2014 and she’s going to be primaried anyway; and no one’s going to risk primarying Scott Brown after the lessons of Delaware last year. Even with Manchin’s defection, that leaves Reid within two votes of passage. The Senate GOP caucus might hang together and block Reid if Boehner’s bill gets through the House, but if it fails then there’s no viable plan on the table. They might very well try to negotiate a few extra concessions from Reid and then pass his bill, which would set up the House for a Democratic-driven bipartisan vote to push it through.

Anyway. Whip count: Allen West hears they’re still two votes short as of now, but Jeb Hensarling and members of the whip team are optimistic that it’ll pass. Stand by for updates, needless to say. While we wait for news, here’s Jay Carney tonight on MSNBC talking about “taking action.” What’s that mean? You don’t suppose…

Update: Pence is now huddling with Boehner, leading reporters to speculate that they’re going to include a balanced-budget amendment in the package somehow. They can’t attach it directly to the bill, though, since a BBA needs two-thirds to pass and Boehner’s proposal will only get the bare majority.

Update: I didn’t see it but apparently Ann Coulter’s telling Hannity that it’s time to bite the bullet and pass Boehner’s bill. Primary Coulter!

Update: Meanwhile, the Republican frontrunner is oh so quiet

NBC’s Garrett Haake reported that Mitt Romney told reporters in Ohio yesterday that he would not comment on the debt negotiations in Washington. And so far, he has refused to either endorse Boehner’s legislation (as Huntsman has done) or oppose it (as Pawlenty and Bachman have done). Our question: How does someone who wants to be the leader of the Republican Party not have a position on one of the biggest issues facing Washington, especially after the dueling primetime speeches by Obama and Boehner? It’s actually quite surprising; this isn’t just another Washington fight. Is the lack of a position proof of how fragile Team Romney believes its front-runner status is right now?

NBC posted that this morning. Did I miss him saying something about Boehner today or is Mitt still mum as of this evening?

Update: Former CBO chief Douglas Holtz-Eakin weeps for America:

Let’s start with the House Democrats who are content to make a political statement and sit on their hands. That means that the Boehner plan must pass with only Republican votes and Democrats don’t care if financial markets melt down tomorrow morning (they will). Defeat for America as they seek their political agenda…

And finally, let’s discuss the House Republicans who are standing on the brink of sending to the Senate — who will pass it — and the president — who will sign it — a piece of legislation that is consistent with their principles, if not perfect. Instead of simply voting yes, they have formed a variety of unproductive coalitions: the Coalition of the Willfully Ignorant (who claim you don’t need a debt-ceiling increase or that markets won’t care and their will be no fallout) and the Coalition of It’s Someone Else’s Problem (because I just want to have an issue and campaign). Result: They suffer a political loss and America loses.

Update: Four hours after the vote was supposed to begin, it’s come to this. Version one:

House Majority Whip: Members are advised to stay nearby as we still expect to vote later tonight – NBC News

Version two:

House #GOP Leadership aide who earlier said the #debt vote wld happen tonight now says, “we’ll see” on if the vote will happen

Update: Supposedly Rand Paul just told Hannity that somewhere between 10 and 14 Republican senators are opposed to Boehner’s bill. That may surprise Douglas Holtz-Eakin, who thinks it’s sure to pass the Senate if it gets through the House, but it won’t surprise anyone else. We’re headed either for a compromise bill or Reid’s bill in the Senate.

Update: Via Mediaite, here’s the exchange between Coulter and Hannity.

Update: GOP whip Kevin McCarthy sends out the word: No vote tonight. Whether that means the bill is dead or that they’re going to try again tomorrow, no one knows yet. But after applying relentless pressure on the caucus for two days, the fact that they’re easing off and letting them go home presumably means they’re not going to present this thing as is tomorrow. Either they’ll tweak it and hope that that shakes a few votes loose or Boehner’s going to abandon the whole thing and huddle with Reid on some sort of bipartisan bill.

This isn’t as epic a defeat for him as losing on an actual roll call would be, but he’s weakened.

Update: Larry Sabato: “Bad news for Boehner. No, awful news. He’s badly embarrassed by his own caucus & loses much leverage to Senate.” Yeah, Reid and Pelosi are calling the shots on the final bill now.

Update: It’s still alive. The Rules Committee is meeting at 11 p.m. to tweak it in hopes of getting to 216 and then they’ll vote on it tomorrow.

Update: A liberal on Twitter warned me last night not to make too much of the lefty chatter about Obama’s supposed Fourteenth Amendment option since the White House itself has rejected it several times. Makes sense — except that Clyburn, who’s number three in the caucus, was rapturous about it yesterday. And now here’s none other than Steny Hoyer rattling the constitutional saber:

“It’s arguably his power to do so,” Hoyer told MSNBC.

“Very frankly, if it came down to his looking default in the eye on Tuesday or taking this action, as President Clinton said, better to take the action and find out later that perhaps he went beyond his authority but at least protected the credibility of the United States of America,” he said.

The remarks align Hoyer with a number of other House Democratic leaders, who are urging Obama to invoke the Constitution to prevent a government default if Congress fails to raise the debt limit before an Aug. 2 deadline.

Is that what Carney was alluding to in the clip I posted up top? Because let me tell you: If you think this standoff can’t become any more of a clusterfark, let the Democrats try to raise the debt ceiling on their own. Bedlam.

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Watching a GOP congressman “No” voter on Fox right now, Trey Gowdy (SC), and he says he’s opposed “unless they add something in such as a BBA or debt-to-GDP ratio,” and said he wants to emphasize that — if something like that gets added, he’s a definite “yes.” The conservatives want to be on record voting for ending deficit spending once and for all. THAT is a winner with the American people. I think Boehner is going to put that in, get it passed, and Reid is going to choke on it. If the argument becomes “we’ve agreed to a short-term debt ceiling raise, but spending money we don’t have has to stop” I think the GOP wins this.

Rational Thought on July 29, 2011 at 9:08 AM

Seems simple enough, doesn’t it? And I hope they do these changes out in the open, so the Senate can see exactly what it is going to take to get ANY bill through the House. This is the way the process SHOULD work. All Members have a say and their votes come with a price.

In fact, this whole thing could still turn out nicely. Everyone can now see that John Boehner cannot force all the Republicans to go where they don’t want to go. He just can’t. It is not because he is a weak Speaker, it is because he has a strong caucus who will not be led where they do not want to go.

rockmom on July 29, 2011 at 9:28 AM

How do you propose resolving it other than giving in to the demands of the nutjobs in the Senate and WH? We pretty much have that with the Boehner plans and McConnell’s suggestions and everything they come up with is declared to be DOA.

Sporty1946 on July 29, 2011 at 7:38 AM

I can answer that in two words:

DO NOTHING.

That’s it. Boehner needs to call a press conference and say the following:

“My fellow Americans; The GOP has worked diligently to resolve the nation’s looming fiscal crisis. We have been working on this issue since the day we took control of the House in January. To that end, we have produced several bills which not only address the need to increase the debt ceiling, but also work to bring spending under control and force America’s government to live within it’s means. These efforts have failed.

Each and every single one of our proposals have gone to the Senate where the Democrat majority has tabled them without even allowing a vote on them. No Discussion, no compromise, no counter-offers, just obstruction. Indeed, the Senate and the Democrats have not produced a budget or a plan in over three years, merely relying on continuing resolutions to keep the government limping along.

As the Democrats have shown no real interest in dealing with this issue, and as they refuse to pass anything we send to them, the GOP is, as of today, announcing that we are at an impasse. As such, we are done trying to solve this issue for the Democrats. We will now wait for the Senate to come up with a plan, pass it, and send it to us. We are done playing this game. The Senate Democrats need to get serious about the real issue facing America and it is apparent that they will remain unwilling to deal with it as long as the GOP continues to play along with them. That time is now past.

Harry Reid, I call upon you to create and pass your own bill. We are willing to entertain any ideas you may have and are willing to compromise within reason. If you are serious about saving America and not just playing politics for your own benefit, Send us a bill.

Thank you, and God Bless America.”

If Boehner were to go up and announce something along these lines it would totally change the paradigm and put the power back in his hands. Right now he’s allowing the Dems to play him, and thus play the GOP. he needs to stop playing that game.

wearyman on July 29, 2011 at 9:33 AM

Today’s cataclysmic GDP numbers really give the House an opening to send something over with BBA and say business as usual HAS TO STOP. They have been handed a gift — a grim illustration of Obama’s economic policies and the promise of a double dip recession. I hope they use it wisely and with great strength.

Rational Thought on July 29, 2011 at 9:33 AM

Perhaps. But I’ll take his strategic quietness over Palin’s grave threat to primary Reps (like those Rinos Allen West and Paul Ryan). Maybe she will have more to say tomorrow. Can’t wait!/

And I know one thing for sure – if Romney were in the White House we’d be slicing and dicing the federal budget, and would have an agenda of economic growth and competent foreign policy.

Buy Danish on July 29, 2011 at 5:07 AM

I never want to hear you call a Palin support a cultist after reading this.

What part of “vote for principles, not personalities” do you not get. I assume it’s the principles part. All you care about is winning elections for people with an (R) at the end of their name. Well, let me enlighten you about something the Tea Party has been trying to yell in your deaf ears:

WE DON’T CARE ABOUT THE GOP OR THE DEMS!

The GOP winning does us no good if it is just a bunch of Romneys, Castles, Collins and Snowes. Romney has never made real cuts to a budget in his life. Kabuki cuts, yes. Real cuts, no. Romney and his ilk are every bit as much our enemy as the democrats. He is nothing more than the lesser of two evils.

We are also tired of lifetime politicians who think talking the good talk is good enough. What West says is worthless if he doesn’t vote the way we wish. Heck, even if he was flawless we should hold him accountable in a primary…every Senator and every Rep in every year would be ideal. That would be even better than term limits. They would suddenly realize how important it is to have a good voting record that matches the rhetoric they were elected on. Keep their feet close to the fire lest they forget why they were elected.

You might call it foolish or a betrayal, but I call it a practical measure. We cannot turn our backs to these politicians and trust they’ll continue to do what they promised. We’ve had knives in our backs since FDR! Enough!

Pattosensei on July 29, 2011 at 9:35 AM

S&P has already said that the Boehner plan (and ephemeral Reid plan) will NOT prevent a downgrade of our credit rating.

gwelf on July 29, 2011 at 9:37 AM

S&P has already said that the Boehner plan (and ephemeral Reid plan) will NOT prevent a downgrade of our credit rating.

gwelf on July 29, 2011 at 9:37 AM

In other words. We’ve kicked this can to the end of the road. We can’t kick it again. The GOP plan needs to make a first significant step in curbing spending. Boehner’s current plan doesn’t do that.

gwelf on July 29, 2011 at 9:39 AM

Why don’t we all hold our fire today until we see the new version of Boehner’s bill.

Nobody but Ron Paul is actually advocating doing nothing.

rockmom on July 29, 2011 at 9:40 AM

The market is tanking on this GDP news. If the House passes something SOON and it has BBA in it, I’m starting to think Reid will pass it. If he fiddles while the market continues to sink, he is playing with fire.

Rational Thought on July 29, 2011 at 9:41 AM

wearyman on July 29, 2011 at 9:33 AM

Well said. Email that to him.

milwife88 on July 29, 2011 at 9:42 AM

Now Reid says he’s bringing his own bill to the Senate for a vote. He is in a panic. This economic news today is blowing a huge hole in the democrats’ plan to hold the country hostage over this.

Rational Thought on July 29, 2011 at 9:43 AM

It would be nice if the balance budget amendment actually passed the House. Its amazing how overblown the rhetoric has become. The BBA failed the House, yet some people talk about forcing it on Reid and Obama… umm, yeah.

The CCB that passed has roughly the same amount of cuts as Boehner’s plan. The BBA didn’t even reach the two-thirds needed for an amendment and arrived at the senate dead.

And they are not mutually exclusive. We passed a CCB, we can continue to push an dpass Boehner’s plan. Push a plan that actually helps the American people. The original goal was cuts commensurate with a ceiling hike. We are getting those cuts with no new tax increases.

Now, middle American families will be cancelling their summer vacation from Yosemite to the White Mountains, and they will be cursing everyone in Congress, especially the GOP and the Tea Party.

Now, Obama owns the economy and this mess. After 8/2 both parties will own it. Its a victory for Obama and the Dems.

swamp_yankee on July 29, 2011 at 9:43 AM

We’re about to see the worst possible scenario surface. The Tea Partiers have effectively killed their own leaders bill and have left an opening for Reid to submit his bill, which he just indicated he will do. With the support of house Democrats Reid’s bill will pass the house and Obama will sign it into law. I hope everybody is really pleased with their defense of their principles because that’s all their getting out of this deal.

rplat on July 29, 2011 at 9:46 AM

I have got to say that the republican Party is more concerned with this country than democrats. It’s obvious!

They always vote lockstep with their masters even when their constituents don’t want the tripe they’re dishing. It’s always about being re-elected by using the voters. The liberal posters on Hot Air are the same way.

Republicans disagree with each other often because they are listening to their constituents and although they all want what’s best for the country they differ on how to get there.

The dems only think about the next election, the money they can get from special interests and using our money for their good, not the country’s.

Provocative but true.

Vince on July 29, 2011 at 9:51 AM

With the support of house Democrats Reid’s bill will pass the house and Obama will sign it into law. I hope everybody is really pleased with their defense of their principles because that’s all their getting out of this deal.

rplat on July 29, 2011 at 9:46 AM

Wait a second–I thought the House had a republican majority? Reid’s bill will not pass the House.

KickandSwimMom on July 29, 2011 at 9:51 AM

Also, I heard Stuart Varney this morning surprised that interest rates are going down today instead of up like you would think with the debt situation. However, it is the poor economic numbers that are driving interest rates down. Thank God the conservatives in DC held their ground last night. Now, Game On!

KickandSwimMom on July 29, 2011 at 9:53 AM

I still maintain that there is no need to raise the debt ceiling. If they would just cut wasteful spending that would free up the money that is needed to keep the country running. Along with a BBA. The federal government takes in revenue every day! It’s not that they don’t have the money it’s what they are doing with the money.
Threaten to with hold congress’ pay until they fix this mess they got us in and see just how fast shit gets done.

milwife88 on July 29, 2011 at 9:55 AM

Now Reid says he’s bringing his own bill to the Senate for a vote. He is in a panic. This economic news today is blowing a huge hole in the democrats’ plan to hold the country hostage over this.

Rational Thought on July 29, 2011 at 9:43 AM

Thanks for the rational thoughts, Rational Thought!

KickandSwimMom on July 29, 2011 at 9:55 AM

Pattosensei on July 29, 2011 at 9:35 AM

Excellent.

Cindy Munford on July 29, 2011 at 9:58 AM

You cannot fix that crisis with just the House. I would think that that’d be clear by now.

SlimyBill on July 29, 2011 at 8:34 AM

Article I Section 7 Clause 1: All bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives…

Why are you holding the House responsible for the actions of the Senate and President? The House is supposed to represent the will of the people. The CCB (67% favorable among all parties), which contains the BBA (75% favorable among all parties), is what the American people want passed!

dominigan on July 29, 2011 at 9:59 AM

Pattosensei on July 29, 2011 at 9:35 AM

My, my, my what a lecturing scold you are. Off your rocker too. It kinda reminds me of the petulant manchild in the White House, ordering people around, using words, just words, not actually having a realistic solution to a damned thing. But hey, you go ahead and fall on your sword – I’m not willing to commit political and economic suicide in the name of “principles” which are completely out of touch with reality.

Buy Danish on July 29, 2011 at 10:00 AM

Provocative but true.

Vince on July 29, 2011 at 9:51 AM

Good point.

RepubChica on July 29, 2011 at 10:00 AM

This is the time for Boehner to say that he doesn’t have enough support for his current plan and offer a plan up for vote that’s near CCB and will pass the House with ease. Pass it today and send it to the Senate.

gwelf on July 29, 2011 at 10:02 AM

rplat on July 29, 2011 at 9:46 AM

Instead of what? What difference does it make what Boehner sends to the Senate when he has a letter that it is DOA. Sight unseen? The Tea Party gave Republicans a seat at the table but it also gave them a mission. The Democrats have already won, even if the Speaker gets his bill passed because he has you turned against your own. Which is exactly what all of this is about. Any you have made it so easy for them.

Cindy Munford on July 29, 2011 at 10:04 AM

Buy Danish on July 29, 2011 at 10:00 AM

No you would rather browbeat and denigrate the only reason you have a seat at the table. Your delusions of superiority are not becoming.

Cindy Munford on July 29, 2011 at 10:05 AM

The Tea Partiers have effectively killed their own leaders bill

rplat on July 29, 2011 at 9:46 AM

Boehner is not the leader of the TEA Party. TEA Party members wanted the CCB (with the BBA) as a practical solution AND shot across the bow. Boehner’s bill is the RINO cop-out.

I say we work on replacing Boehner with Jim Jordan. Jordan has shown the most leadership of any of the Repub Reps!

WE DON’T CARE ABOUT THE GOP OR THE DEMS!

The GOP winning does us no good if it is just a bunch of Romneys, Castles, Collins and Snowes. Romney has never made real cuts to a budget in his life. Kabuki cuts, yes. Real cuts, no. Romney and his ilk are every bit as much our enemy as the democrats. He is nothing more than the lesser of two evils.

We are also tired of lifetime politicians who think talking the good talk is good enough. What West says is worthless if he doesn’t vote the way we wish. Heck, even if he was flawless we should hold him accountable in a primary…every Senator and every Rep in every year would be ideal. That would be even better than term limits. They would suddenly realize how important it is to have a good voting record that matches the rhetoric they were elected on. Keep their feet close to the fire lest they forget why they were elected.

You might call it foolish or a betrayal, but I call it a practical measure. We cannot turn our backs to these politicians and trust they’ll continue to do what they promised. We’ve had knives in our backs since FDR! Enough!

Pattosensei on July 29, 2011 at 9:35 AM

AMEN! Preach it brother! Some people don’t understand that this is no longer politics as usual.

dominigan on July 29, 2011 at 10:06 AM

Yeah, Obama and the Dems are going to cut wasteful spending if the ceiling isn’t raised, and of course, to conservative dreamers, that means tackling liberal pet causes.

No, they will defer payments, they will issue IOUs, they will expedite troop withdrawals, they will close military bases, they force furloughs, they will gut the military. They will make temporary cuts to things like park services.

They will never pass a BBA or a CAP Act or cut entitlements any more than Sarah Palin and Jim Demint will fold to pass Card Check and Cap and Trade.

swamp_yankee on July 29, 2011 at 10:08 AM

My, my, my what a lecturing scold you are. Off your rocker too. It kinda reminds me of the petulant manchild in the White House, ordering people around, using words, just words, not actually having a realistic solution to a damned thing.

Buy Danish on July 29, 2011 at 10:00 AM

TEA Party members passed the CCB, the only bill to truly address the problem. But go ahead and repeat your lies, they are just words, not a solution to a damned thing.

dominigan on July 29, 2011 at 10:10 AM

No you would rather browbeat and denigrate the only reason you have a seat at the table. Your delusions of superiority are not becoming.
Cindy Munford on July 29, 2011 at 10:05 AM

Cindy, In all due respect, He/She/It was browbeating (i.e., “scolding” me). I made a perfectly reasonable comment and got hit up with an insane response with lots of SHOUTING IN CAPS and responded accordingly. As for your “denigrating the only reason I have a seat at the table” I honestly don’t know what that means.

Buy Danish on July 29, 2011 at 10:10 AM

This is the time for Boehner to say that he doesn’t have enough support for his current plan and offer a plan up for vote that’s near CCB and will pass the House with ease. Pass it today and send it to the Senate.

gwelf on July 29, 2011 at 10:02 AM

Under Boehner’s leadership, they passed CCB last week. I guess Tea Party magic is going to change everything this time.

swamp_yankee on July 29, 2011 at 10:11 AM

TEA Party members passed the CCB, the only bill to truly address the problem. But go ahead and repeat your lies, they are just words, not a solution to a damned thing.
dominigan on July 29, 2011 at 10:10 AM

What “lies”?!! Did that bill pass the Senate? No. Harry Reid (whose ass I want out of there in 2012) won’t allow it. Would Obama (whose ass I want out of the White House in 2012) sign it even if it did pass the Senate? No. Are there enough votes to override a veto? No. Is public opinion running on the side of the Tea Party? No. We need a temporary fix to get through this immediate crisis and then work for deeper cuts in 6 months or so – but the only way to do that is to get public opinion on our side. Threatening to primary Republicans AND SHOUTING AT PEOPLE LIKE ME is not the way to do it.

Buy Danish on July 29, 2011 at 10:15 AM

Under Boehner’s leadership, they passed CCB last week. I guess Tea Party magic is going to change everything this time.

swamp_yankee on July 29, 2011 at 10:11 AM

And Reid has promised to kill Boehner’s current plan? So what’s the difference – other than the CCB might actually avert a down-grade in our credit rating?

gwelf on July 29, 2011 at 10:17 AM

Under Boehner’s leadership, they passed CCB last week. I guess Tea Party magic is going to change everything this time.
swamp_yankee on July 29, 2011 at 10:11 AM

I thought liberals owned alternate reality, but some “conservatives” are doing a damn good job honing in on their territory.

Buy Danish on July 29, 2011 at 10:18 AM

I thought liberals owned alternate reality, but some “conservatives” are doing a damn good job honing in on their territory.

Buy Danish on July 29, 2011 at 10:18 AM

Reid’s promised to kill Boehner’s current plan. So how is this different than CCB? If you believe Reid is in a panic and will pass anything the GOP sends over then why not CCB?

gwelf on July 29, 2011 at 10:21 AM

Buy Danish on July 29, 2011 at 10:10 AM

Your vision of what would have been had Gov. Romney been elected is no less surreal than the folks that are positive that Gov. Palin is the answer. Obviously anything would have been better than Obama but the fact remains that wins seldom jive with reality. As we are seeing now. The Tea Party allowed the Republicans to hold the purse strings and now Republicans want to govern by public opinion. All members of Congress should be primaried, the job is not a given. The Democrats have won because we don’t have the guts to stand by the people that are demanding change, it’s just a popularity contest. And no, he shouldn’t yell at you but it’s text, I think you will be okay.

Cindy Munford on July 29, 2011 at 10:24 AM

And Reid has promised to kill Boehner’s current plan? So what’s the difference – other than the CCB might actually avert a down-grade in our credit rating?

gwelf on July 29, 2011 at 10:17 AM

BBA is poison to liberals it will never pass. Reid already is working on his own plan.

Spending cuts commensurate or greater than the raise with no new taxes is a realistic goal. Boehner’s plan is a starting point. BBA and Cap Act are right there with the repeal of ObamaCare and Ryan Roadmap. Why did the Tea Partiers stop insisting on sending the ObamaCare repeal to the Senate every week? Maybe because they realized that liked petulant and wasteful, when there not making decisions based on emotions.

By the way, that was Boehner who shepherded the ObamaCare repeal, the Ryan Roadmap, the CCB, the end of earmarks, whose insiste don ethics and forced out corrupt House members… but whiners will be whiners. Like petulant spoiled little kids always crying because they don’t get everything they want.

swamp_yankee on July 29, 2011 at 10:25 AM

Reid’s promised to kill Boehner’s current plan. So how is this different than CCB? If you believe Reid is in a panic and will pass anything the GOP sends over then why not CCB?
gwelf on July 29, 2011 at 10:21 AM

Call Reid’s bluff with a new bill that isn’t CCB.

Buy Danish on July 29, 2011 at 10:25 AM

I thought liberals owned alternate reality, but some “conservatives” are doing a damn good job honing in on their territory.

Buy Danish on July 29, 2011 at 10:18 AM

What about the credit ratings agencies which are indicating that the real issue is dealing with the spending and that the Reid and Boehner plans won’t suffice?

gwelf on July 29, 2011 at 10:26 AM

Cindy Munford on July 29, 2011 at 10:24 AM

I have to run out for an appointment but will deal with your “surreal” assertion Romney would be no better than Obama later.

Buy Danish on July 29, 2011 at 10:27 AM

Call Reid’s bluff with a new bill that isn’t CCB.

Buy Danish on July 29, 2011 at 10:25 AM

I’m not opposed to a new bill that isn’t CCB but I think it needs to be a first good step in dealing with spending. Boehner’s current plan doesn’t do this.

Also, if Reid is bluffing about killing Boehner’s plan then he’ll probably pass whatever the GOP sends over – including a plan that actually does something.

gwelf on July 29, 2011 at 10:29 AM

Buy Danish on July 29, 2011 at 10:27 AM

Okay. Have a great on.

Cindy Munford on July 29, 2011 at 10:30 AM

BBA is poison to liberals it will never pass. Reid already is working on his own plan.

Spending cuts commensurate or greater than the raise with no new taxes is a realistic goal. Boehner’s plan is a starting point. BBA and Cap Act are right there with the repeal of ObamaCare and Ryan Roadmap. Why did the Tea Partiers stop insisting on sending the ObamaCare repeal to the Senate every week? Maybe because they realized that liked petulant and wasteful, when there not making decisions based on emotions.

By the way, that was Boehner who shepherded the ObamaCare repeal, the Ryan Roadmap, the CCB, the end of earmarks, whose insiste don ethics and forced out corrupt House members… but whiners will be whiners. Like petulant spoiled little kids always crying because they don’t get everything they want.

swamp_yankee on July 29, 2011 at 10:25 AM

First of all we aren’t getting spending cuts commensurate with the debt ceiling raise. We’ll get 20 to 30 billion in cuts for a trillion more in spending. I don’t care about phantom savings 10 years from now.

The credit ratings agencies tell us the real issue is the spending and not the ceiling. Boehner’s plan doesn’t address this.

Boehner should have responded with a plan similar to CCB instead of the plan he has now – it’s time he do that.

gwelf on July 29, 2011 at 10:32 AM

The credit ratings agencies tell us the real issue is the spending and not the ceiling. Boehner’s plan doesn’t address this.

Boehner should have responded with a plan similar to CCB instead of the plan he has now – it’s time he do that.

gwelf on July 29, 2011 at 10:32 AM

For the tenth time they just passed CCB, and will continue to push it. Boehner’s plan and CCB are not mutually exclusive.

And I’m kind of tired of people playing financial experts on blogs. Its Russian Roulette. No one knows exactly what will happen, but there is a chance a lot of bad things could happen, and responsible conservatives should work to fight for the American people, not just pass a CCB and sit on their hands.

At first, it was all about social security payments, then its was about T-Bill interest payments, then it was about default, now its about a downgrade.

The credit agencies are not the end all. There will be some financial/legal obligation that we will not be able to honor. Markets and the economy are driven by psychology and perception as much as hard numbers. Employers will be rattled. America will be humiliated. That some conservative wish to tempt fate by playing with people’s livlihoods is just disgusting, a bunch of grandstanding ideologues barking on internet websites about there principles. That’s really some comfort to the park ranger who will not get paid, they vendor whose contract will be cancelled… At this point I really dont care about the credit agencies.

swamp_yankee on July 29, 2011 at 10:43 AM

Call, call, call your Representatives. The phone numbers are posted over at Michelle’s Blog. I goit straight through to mine this morning. We voted these guys in, now show your support. Tell them to stand strong and hold the line!

Storybec on July 29, 2011 at 10:48 AM

For the tenth time they just passed CCB, and will continue to push it. Boehner’s plan and CCB are not mutually exclusive.

And I’m kind of tired of people playing financial experts on blogs. Its Russian Roulette. No one knows exactly what will happen, but there is a chance a lot of bad things could happen, and responsible conservatives should work to fight for the American people, not just pass a CCB and sit on their hands.

At first, it was all about social security payments, then its was about T-Bill interest payments, then it was about default, now its about a downgrade.

The credit agencies are not the end all. There will be some financial/legal obligation that we will not be able to honor. Markets and the economy are driven by psychology and perception as much as hard numbers. Employers will be rattled. America will be humiliated. That some conservative wish to tempt fate by playing with people’s livlihoods is just disgusting, a bunch of grandstanding ideologues barking on internet websites about there principles. That’s really some comfort to the park ranger who will not get paid, they vendor whose contract will be cancelled… At this point I really dont care about the credit agencies.

swamp_yankee on July 29, 2011 at 10:43 AM

The plans are mutually exclusive. To claim otherwise means you don’t know anything about negotiating.

You’re right – I don’t know what will happen if Boehner’s plan is passed. It could be we won’t be down-graded.

To your larger issue – when will conservatives ever have an unblockable majority in both chambers and a President in the Whitehouse? We’re not going to get a filibuster proof majority in the Senate in 2012. Say we do get control of the Senate and House and Whitehouse in 2012. We’re going to have a hell of a fight to correct course – repeal ObamaCare, restructure entitlements and scale back discretionary spending and regulation. The theory is that we’ll then be able to accomplish all of this? The same “pragmatic” arguments will be used by Democrats (who will be able to filibuster in the Senate) and squishy RINO’s to severely water down or defeat these big issues that need to be taken head on. Whenever a tough choice comes before us the rallying cry is “We gave it good try – now it’s time to be pragmatic and wait.” Tackling these issues is never going to be easy or pleasant – less pleasant than things are right now.

I don’t want a default or chaos etc but I would like the GOP to show me they have some spine instead of trying to console me that “when the time is right” they’ll have some spine. I’m not completely unhappy with Boehner – he’s done a lot of things I approve of but I don’t think he pushed CCB as hard as he could have (though there’s more blame on this account on Senate Republicans) and his response to the CCB being shot down should have been another good plan instead of the one he has now. The CCB failed by 3 votes and Boehner swung the entire other direction – offering a plan that doesn’t do anything after having offered a plan that almost passed that would have been effective.

gwelf on July 29, 2011 at 10:55 AM

The plans are mutually exclusive. To claim otherwise means you don’t know anything about negotiating.

Umm, no they are not. And I stopped readin after the first sentence because if you dont know what mutually exclusive means its mot worth reading the rest of your post.

We just passed BBC. We can pass Boehner’s Plan. And then we can pass BBC again. We can pass BBC every month for the rest of the session.

swamp_yankee on July 29, 2011 at 11:02 AM

Umm, no they are not. And I stopped readin after the first sentence because if you dont know what mutually exclusive means its mot worth reading the rest of your post.

We just passed BBC. We can pass Boehner’s Plan. And then we can pass BBC again. We can pass BBC every month for the rest of the session.

swamp_yankee on July 29, 2011 at 11:02 AM

They are not mutually exclusive in the sense that they could both be law at the same time but they cannot be offered at the same time. They are mutually exclusive in that way.

Also, it’s silly to suggest we can keep passing BBC every month for the rest of the season. If Reid’s ever going to accept it it’s going to be now and not later when there’s no pressure.

gwelf on July 29, 2011 at 11:14 AM

The Tea Party is not the head of any large group similar to the Democratic or Republican parties.

From what I understand The
Tea Party consists of many smaller groups who
are not under the umbrella of a Tea Party head. They do
not have a national committee or headquarters. Each group
is individual.

So, who is this Tea Party that everyone is bashing for
telling Allen West and others how to vote, etc.?

Amjean on July 29, 2011 at 11:22 AM

“Very frankly, if it came down to his looking default in the eye on Tuesday or taking this action, as President Clinton said, better to take the action and find out later that perhaps he went beyond his authority but at least protected the credibility of the United States of America,” he said.

Okay, how exactly does a President protect the credibility of the nation (his credibility as well) by illegally going beyond his authority?

Doesn’t sound like a very credible action to me.

Lawrence on July 29, 2011 at 11:37 AM

Amjean on July 29, 2011 at 11:22 AM

In this case it his constituents who worked very hard to get him to the House to change the way things are done. If voting with Speaker Boehner was the right thing for him to do, fine, but he should be able to do that without insult those who voted for him. They like him, they want him to succeed and they trust his judgement, so why would he treat them the same way he treats Ms. Wasserman-Schultz?

Cindy Munford on July 29, 2011 at 11:52 AM

In this case it his constituents who worked very hard to get him to the House to change the way things are done. If voting with Speaker Boehner was the right thing for him to do, fine, but he should be able to do that without insult those who voted for him. They like him, they want him to succeed and they trust his judgement, so why would he treat them the same way he treats Ms. Wasserman-Schultz?

Cindy Munford on July 29, 2011 at 11:52 AM

I am out of the loop on this one – I personally think that
Ms. Wasserman-Schultz should be treated like the scum she is – she is a despicable person. However, I see your point. I recall that he called her out for bashing him
behind his back or some such childish thing – however,
I am not up to speed on his calling out the tea party -
or his voter base. Bad move on his part. Not VP material!
Another one off the list!

Amjean on July 29, 2011 at 12:31 PM

Amjean on July 29, 2011 at 12:31 PM

He went on Laura Ingraham’s show this morning. It was in the headlines but you will have to go to the archives since it has already been moved off by newer stories. I’m not willing to give up on Mr. West yet, I think he has potential. Diplomacy is obviously not his strong suit but you don’t bite the hand that feeds you, even if you think they are wrong.

Cindy Munford on July 29, 2011 at 12:36 PM

Amjean on July 29, 2011 at 12:31 PM

An update. Apparently Mr. West was reacting to an inaccurate news report. Should have guessed the media had a hand in the confusion.

Cindy Munford on July 29, 2011 at 1:50 PM

Okay, I’m back and have time to take this rant on line by line:

Pattosensei on July 29, 2011 at 9:35 AM

cc: Cindy Munford

I never want to hear you call a Palin support a cultist after reading this.

What on Earth are you trying to say? Because I agree with people like Charles Krauthammer, Thomas Sowell, and others makes me a cult member? Because I agree with Allahpundit about Palin’s threat to primary people who don’t follow the Tea Party’s orders I’m a cult member? What’s this cult called exactly?

What part of “vote for principles, not personalities” do you not get.

All of it. I don’t vote for “personalities”. I vote for candidates, based on their principles, their governing or legislative abilities, their common sense and so forth. If it was only about principles we could elect a bunch of robots who spouted talking points but didn’t actually know how to work in the real world in real situations. Pesky stuff like, you know, when we only hold the House and have to deal with the Senate and White House.

I assume it’s the principles part. All you care about is winning elections for people with an (R) at the end of their name. Well, let me enlighten you about something the Tea Party has been trying to yell in your deaf ears:

WE DON’T CARE ABOUT THE GOP OR THE DEMS!

Bully for you!! I care about doing whatever needs to be done so we don’t lose elections to Democrats, Marxists, Progressives, whatever you want to call them. For the Tea Party agenda to succeed we need to convince the American people of its merits. We can’t alienate the very people who just voted the GOP house into office. Many of those people are Independents and not hard core “conservatives” or whatever you call yourself.

The GOP winning does us no good if it is just a bunch of Romneys, Castles, Collins and Snowes. Romney has never made real cuts to a budget in his life. Kabuki cuts, yes. Real cuts, no. Romney and his ilk are every bit as much our enemy as the democrats. He is nothing more than the lesser of two evils.

That is unmitigated nonsense. I loathe Collins and Snowe. I lived in Maine and didn’t vote for them (left their names blank) but voted for every other Republican on the ticket. I could do that because they were not threatened by a Democrat which would have been even worse than those two.

As for Romney, your claims are so preposterous they are not even worthy of a response.

What West says is worthless if he doesn’t vote the way we wish

Do you live in his district in Florida or are you just flapping your jaw?

Heck, even if he was flawless we should hold him accountable in a primary…every Senator and every Rep in every year would be ideal.

Terrific. All our candidates will be broke by the time they have to run in general elections against Democrats.

That would be even better than term limits. They would suddenly realize how important it is to have a good voting record that matches the rhetoric they were elected on. Keep their feet close to the fire lest they forget why they were elected.

In real life one has to compromise sometimes. That isn’t what we want but it’s reality. To force them to vote in such a way that ends up hurting us in the long run is just not very smart tactics.

We cannot turn our backs to these politicians and trust they’ll continue to do what they promised. We’ve had knives in our backs since FDR! Enough!

Oh please. Such hyperbole. Do you think its better that they lose to Democrats? If this debt deal doesn’t get done, who do you think will be blamed for it?

Buy Danish on July 29, 2011 at 2:59 PM

Buy Danish on July 29, 2011 at 2:59 PM

I can only speak for myself. I have to say that I was taken aback by all the things you indicated would or would not have happened had Gov. Romney been elected president. Only because they were equally unprovable as the things people seem to believe might happen if Gov. Palin is elected. The only thing I can say with a modicum of conviction is that either would be preferable to Obama. You are usually pretty reserved in your support of Gov. Romeny but pretty dismissive of those who support Gov. Palin, so it was odd to see you take on a tone that was closer to the aforementioned Palinistas. I am sorry if I was harsh in my surprise, you have always made valid points in a above reproach manner. The main difference I know that we have is that I don’t base any of my opinions on what is good for the Republican party. I just don’t care. The only reason I support them is that they seem the most trainable. I am sure I will be proven wrong and that there is only minor difference in them and and the Democrats.

Cindy Munford on July 29, 2011 at 3:18 PM

Cindy Munford on July 29, 2011 at 3:18 PM

The comment that I made which Pattonsensei overreacted to was in response to this comment from INC, which was at the end of a complaint about Romney not regularly inserting himself in this debate:

That’s not taking a stand. That’s carefully choosing a place to sit on the fence.
INC on July 29, 2011 at 2:04 AM

Why you are “taken aback” by what I said about what our economy and the debt situation would look like under Romney versus the nightmare we’re living under with Obama is puzzling to me. Palin would be doing and equally good job if she were in office but she didn’t run against Obama so its a moot point. INC was talking about Romney and that’s what I responded to. McCain? Not sure – he wanted to run with Democrat Joe Lieberman and is far more of a RINO that Romney IMHO. Romney is also in the race while Palin is not, so it’s a bit ironic to be talking about “sitting on the fence” but I digress.

I think that Palin is way over the top to be encouraging/threatening the GOP to be taking an unrealistic hardline approach with threats that they be primaried. But in any case Pattosensei’s rant/lecture was inappropriate (How awful am I to have said that Romney would be a better President than Obama!)and I find it odd that you thought it was terrific. Having had time to peruse a few more stories I see that such RINOS as Laura Ingraham agree with me too, so I welcome her to my “cult”.

Buy Danish on July 29, 2011 at 4:27 PM

I am sure I will be proven wrong and that there is only minor difference in them and and the Democrats.
Cindy Munford on July 29, 2011 at 3:18 PM

Sorry – I should have addressed this too. This is just silly. The Democrats are fracking Marxists. The want to redistribute wealth in the name of “fairness” and “shared sacrifice”, squander our tax dollars, pick winners and losers, tax us up the wazoo, promote union thuggery, demonize profits, use the EPA and other agencies as a regulatory weapon against business, use class warfare/class envy to divide us, separate us into groups based on sex/gender/ethnicity and so on, ad nauseam. What Republican in the House of Representatives has anything close to this agenda?

Buy Danish on July 29, 2011 at 4:34 PM

Buy Danish on July 29, 2011 at 4:34 PM

The Republicans were a bit to free wheeling for me while W was in office and I am one of the few that was totally against TARP. Your not a fence sitter so the comment to you was indeed unfair. I don’t like that we are again being forced into doing things in crisis mode. It was one thing when the Democrats had all the power but I think the Republicans need to think ahead. One of them stated that Congress received a letter from Sec. Geithner six months ago about the impending need to address the debt ceiling and yet here we are getting caught again. People have said again and again to support Speaker Boehner now and look at the long term. I will if they will.

Cindy Munford on July 29, 2011 at 4:54 PM

Buy Danish on July 29, 2011 at 4:27 PM

Oh and I don’t like either Gov. Palin or any supposed Tea Party faction threatening to primary members. That’s their constituents business. That said, I am not establishment Republican so I disagree with Laura Ingraham regularly. I don’t like politics as a team sports with points for winning and losing. So she is not a RINO by any stretch of the imagination but it doesn’t make any difference to me whether I agree with her or anyone else. My opinions are just that, my opinions.

Cindy Munford on July 29, 2011 at 5:01 PM

Cindy Munford

I care about the team only to the extent that we need to beat Team Obama and the Democrats. I do agree that the GOP should have handled this better. For one thing they should have reminded Americans that Obama already got a humongous tax increase on “the rich” with Obamacare so the trillion more in taxes is over and above the $500 billion (or more) written into legislation. That would have easily nipped this “balanced approach” b.s. in the bud

As for Ingraham, I found this on facebook and think it’s despicable of Levin (who I generally like very much)

Mark Levin
How are those book sales going?

Laura Ingraham pushes back on Sarah Palin primary threat – Alexander Burns
http://www.politico.com
The high-profile conservative radio host says Palin’s Facebook message about the debt ceiling fight wasn’t helpful.

Buy Danish on July 29, 2011 at 5:29 PM

Buy Danish on July 29, 2011 at 5:29 PM

I think it would be great if the ladies would find things that they can agree on instead sniping.

Cindy Munford on July 29, 2011 at 10:21 PM

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