CBO scores Boehner’s new bill: $22 billion in savings this year, $917 billion over 10 years

posted at 7:32 pm on July 27, 2011 by Allahpundit

A modest improvement, but let’s face it: At this point, no one’s supporting the bill on its merits. If you’re backing it, it’s because it’s the best we can do to avert a default right now and because, if it passes the Senate somehow, it would force The One to choke on his quasi-threat to veto any short-term deal at the last minute. There’s some fun in that, I suppose.

The new bill does, at least, keep his promise to produce savings in an amount greater than or equal to the amount of the debt-ceiling increase, which will be $900 billion if this is enacted. It’s hard to get excited about the difference between $1 billion in savings next year, which the old bill provided, and $22 billion, which the new one ensures, when we’re running multitrillion dollar deficits. But Yuval Levin makes a fair point. The lower we can get CBO’s baseline now, the deeper future Congresses will have to cut to sell their proposals:

These are still very small numbers in the scheme of federal spending, but the greater front-loading actually matters a lot. One reason is that the 2012 and 2013 budgets are the only ones that will actually be under the control of this congress. But even more important is the greater reduction of the baseline itself since, as we’ve witnessed in the past 24 hours, the CBO baseline is the measure of all future cuts—it sets the bar. This debt limit fight has set a precedent that from now on increases in the debt ceiling will need to be accompanied by equivalent cuts in spending, and those cuts will be measured by the CBO baseline, so cutting it by this much in the first two years will really shape the next round of the budget wars, which will come very soon. Front-loaded cuts have a kind of ratchet effect. And the larger cuts to the baseline in the following years (the revised bill’s cuts are larger every year than the original bill’s cuts) matter for the same reason—even if they don’t fully materialize (since one congress can’t bind another), they define the measure of future spending in every round of budget debates, which means that they make all future cuts larger in real terms.

Reid’s bill would produce $30 billion in savings this year, but guess where that comes from. Right: The phantom “savings” from winding down in Iraq and Afghanistan. Which, contra Levin, reminds us that it’s not that hard to beat those CBO baselines with a creative gimmick or two.

As of early evening, another member of the Cut, Cap, and Balance coalition has peeled off to join Allen West in supporting Boehner’s bill. And Darrell Issa, on a conference call with bloggers, thinks they have the votes — sort of. Exit quotation: “I don’t think all the people whose votes we have yet know it.”

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wren on July 27, 2011 at 8:13 PM

Lucky Bastards! And I’d do the exact same thing to weather the bammie storm.

The GOP winner will be able to simplify and restore the regs, calm the uncertainty and bring those funds back to the US where it belongs.

Tim_CA on July 27, 2011 at 8:19 PM

But Boehner threw that away earlier this year after proposing it last year. It is the most effective way to curtail government and yet he decided not to do it. He is not serious about stopping the spending.

ajacksonian on July 27, 2011 at 7:53 PM

He has never been serious about shrinking gov’t and spending, he just throws us smoke and mirrors! He has blown us off way too many times now!

bluemarlin on July 27, 2011 at 8:20 PM

Looking at the CBO graphic Allah posted, I notice the Boehner bill appears to actually increase Pell grants. Anybody care to explain that?

MTF on July 27, 2011 at 8:20 PM

It ain’t enough. BUT if it passes both houses, MAKE BARRY CHOKE ON IT!

GarandFan on July 27, 2011 at 8:21 PM

there is a reason why people say War is Hell…because war is hell. You lose friends, battles, and, if you are not careful, morale.

Barry’s two main goals are 1. WIN 2. Suppress conservative votes in 12. Jay Carney basically said today, MAKE MY DAY to the Rs. Cowboy barry is luving all this…he is riding high. The Rs are shooting at one another, there is a looming financial CRISIS that he can BLAME the Rs for.

War is hell. November is the prize. In fact, I wouldn’t mind a little passive aggressive behavior. Ok, cowboy, you want the business jet thing…here…it’s yours. Millionaire tax…done. What else, you little punk??? 250K? done.

Then score it with CBO. And let them say that the cowboy is full of s***

r keller on July 27, 2011 at 8:21 PM

It makes no difference what happens with any of these plans unless there is a constitutional amendment demanding a balanced budget. As it stands now, Reid and the dems will likely eventually cave and go for the cuts Boehner is pushing, and then they will quietly continue spending as they always have…after a few months the whole thing is forgotten until we hit the debt ceiling again. When that occurs everyone will sit around scratching the heads wondering how that happened when we just “cut” 900 billion in spending…over 10 years! So they will go another round, make the same or maybe even larger cuts deal in order to raise the debt limit, and round and round it goes. I am so sick of being stuck with these lame whiny rinos holding all of us hostage. The Tea Party movement was great…yet you notice how many who seemed to hop right on the bandwagon don’t seem to have the fortitude to follow through. Our entire country has moved so far towards communism I really don’t think there is any hope of either party saving it.

BadMojo on July 27, 2011 at 8:22 PM

$22 billion?? What’s that, 5 days of borrowing??? WOW. I can see the recovery from my front porch.

RADIOONE on July 27, 2011 at 8:18 PM

LMAO….

From up here on top of “Debt Mountain”…all I see are clouds.

Was down in “Defecit Valley” earlier…nothing but steeeeep canyon wals.

Tim_CA on July 27, 2011 at 8:22 PM

I know what Barry Soetoro’s plan is. His goal all along has been to divide the GOP (done!), while telling the democrats to vote everything down. Why? He’s going to raise the ceiling using the 14th Amendment. He’s going to say he had no choice because the GOP was obstructing progress.

SouthernGent on July 27, 2011 at 7:55 PM
—————————————————-

That sure looks like the plan SouthernGent.

Sandybourne on July 27, 2011 at 8:23 PM

Business as usual in Washington. They spend, refuse to get serious about cutting, and we choke on it yet again. Gosh thanks Boehner.

Edouard on July 27, 2011 at 7:37 PM

What was that Bill Murray movie…..Groundhog Day?

Tim_CA on July 27, 2011 at 8:25 PM

Like I said from the very beginning the Republicans Negotiate with and defeat themselves.

tomas on July 27, 2011 at 8:25 PM

if it passes the Senate somehow, it would force The One to choke on his quasi-threat to veto any short-term deal at the last minute. There’s some fun in that, I suppose.

Where I come from, that’s a good Saturday night’s entertainment.

And believe it, backing away from that veto threat will be the clearest marker on the Obama tide, that point where the wave finally broke, and then rolled back.

(With apologies to HST…)

JohnGalt23 on July 27, 2011 at 8:28 PM

Boehner is playing the long game as he should be. No balanced amendment will pass the senate with Reid in charge and barry as prez. Get the PR win, use it for November, get a R elected as prez, and then you party. Everything the Tea Party wants done now (which has no actual hope of being done) can be done (actually done) then.

Zaggs on July 27, 2011 at 8:29 PM

I’m sorry but I’m exhausted right now, long day, and my mind is in power save mode. Can someone tell me if the debt ceiling hike will come up again in 2012, before the election, or does this carry it past the election?

Daemonocracy on July 27, 2011 at 8:31 PM

He has never been serious about shrinking gov’t and spending, he just throws us smoke and mirrors! He has blown us off way too many times now!

bluemarlin on July 27, 2011 at 8:20 PM

We are now at the point where if Boehner can get something through the House, then we must hope that Reid is ticked off enough at the way Obama hasn’t been negotiating to block it.

Nothing Reid starts in the Senate will get through the House.

The debt limit stays in place.

Obama is forced to starting shutting down parts of government.

Reid isn’t the sort of guy I ever place any hopes on… but he knows that HE has been played as a prop in the Obamadrama, and one musn’t to that to the top dog of the Senate. Especially if he is in your own party.

Knives and backs and all that.

ajacksonian on July 27, 2011 at 8:32 PM

Boehner is playing the long game as he should be. No balanced amendment will pass the senate with Reid in charge and barry as prez. Get the PR win, use it for November, get a R elected as prez, and then you party. Everything the Tea Party wants done now (which has no actual hope of being done) can be done (actually done) then.

Zaggs on July 27, 2011 at 8:29 PM

If this was the plan along, why did they fool us during the continuing resolution debate? Why did they say they will fight over debt ceiling? Why did they not tell us point blank that we should expect nothing from them till 2012?

promachus on July 27, 2011 at 8:35 PM

I want Obama out so we can make massive spending cuts, cut taxes, reform entitlements, appoint conservative supreme court justices, defund NPR/PBS and planned parenthood, etc. Those things are very important to me and can only be done with a republican president. How in the world does that make me a sellout or squish?

JohnInCA on July 27, 2011 at 8:16 PM

Nope, John, wanting those things does not make you a sellout or a squish. However, deluding yourself that you will get them under our current leadership makes you woefully naive.

These guys refused to fight for conservative principles when they had the White House and Congress from 2002 – 2006. Remember Harriet Miers? Gang of 14? A host of liberal initiatives passed into law? The big spending years of Bush/Hastert/Frist?

So what makes you think they will change all of a sudden? Misplaced hope can prove really dangerous to your health :).

TheRightMan on July 27, 2011 at 8:37 PM

I’m starting to favor Boehenr’s plan..If not CCB..This is a way foward without a lot of panic..:)

Dire Straits on July 27, 2011 at 8:45 PM

Dire Straits on July 27, 2011 at 8:45 PM
I’m with you DS, but I don’t like this one bit.

txmomof6 on July 27, 2011 at 8:52 PM

I’m with you DS, but I don’t like this one bit.

txmomof6 on July 27, 2011 at 8:52 PM

I agree..I do not like it..I (like you) am starting to feel like it is the best plan..:)

Dire Straits on July 27, 2011 at 8:54 PM

If this was the plan along, why did they fool us during the continuing resolution debate? Why did they say they will fight over debt ceiling? Why did they not tell us point blank that we should expect nothing from them till 2012?

promachus

Boehner can only fight so much. He doesn’t have an equal playing field. How many times last week did democrats get in front of media, accuse the GOP of saying “no” to everything despite bills passed and not 1 member of the media call them on it. Hell Boehner could pass Barry’s plan, have Barry veto it and most of the media would still blame him for default which is what most of America would see. Hell Barry admitted to coming last minute to try to force another 400 billion out of Boehner and how much crap did the press give him? Barely any. Boehner may have been able to fight more has he not been attacked by his own party, but he has fought as best he can (except for the first draft of his bill) as he cannot let us pass August 2nd because too many believe it will be the end times.

Zaggs on July 27, 2011 at 8:55 PM

Any “cut” past 2012 is fairy dust, unless it is entitlement reform.

AshleyTKing on July 27, 2011 at 8:58 PM

, before the election, or does this carry it past the election?

Daemonocracy on July 27, 2011 at 8:31 PM

Carries it just past the election so his majesty will have just a little extra sugar to sweeten up his friends.

AshleyTKing on July 27, 2011 at 8:59 PM

22 Billion in cuts. 900 million in new spending.

NOT A GOOD DEAL FOR AMERICA.

Everything beyond the first 22 is vaporware. There is absolutely no reason for or guarantee that future Congress’ will go forward with these cuts. In fact, there is almost every reason for them not too.

878 B in new spending. Just wonderful.

Another epic Republican fail. They should have just kept dropping CC&B on the table and said “That’s ours, where’s yours”. Instead, every time the Democrats looked crossways at the House plan, Boehner and the boys changed it.

22 Billion, that’s pretty pathetic, they couldn’t even manage a 1% cut. In Ace’s words. . . we’re DOOMED!!!!!

Jason Coleman on July 27, 2011 at 9:03 PM

22 billion cut. You, GOP leaders, are useless.

AshleyTKing on July 27, 2011 at 9:05 PM

DON’T YOU UNDERSTAND WE’RE ALL GOING TO DIE?!?!! ITS THE END FO THE WORLD PEOPLE, ITS IN REVELATIONS!!!!! WE HAVE TO PASS THIS SO THE KIDS DON’T DIE!!!

Why do we let them create these moments of chaos and crisis where we have to act irrationally? This bill? Really? We don’t have to pass a thing right now.

El_Terrible on July 27, 2011 at 9:07 PM

Obama and the massively moved the goal posts on spending and the GOP (shudder) can only peal back a tiny crumb of spending. How about half way back, men, like 500 billion right now? Dems have added over a trillion in new, deficit financed spending. Try cutting that crap in half, for starters. So 22 billion is just 480 billion short.

Try again.

AshleyTKing on July 27, 2011 at 9:09 PM

22 Billion in cuts. 900 million in new spending.
Jason Coleman

Yeah it sucks. But we’re down to 2 plans. Reid’s that cuts nothing at all this year and cannot do crap long term, and Boehner’s which might have a hope of doing something longterm.

Zaggs on July 27, 2011 at 9:09 PM

22 Billion in cuts. 900 million in new spending.
Jason Coleman

Yeah it sucks. But we’re down to 2 plans. Reid’s that cuts nothing at all this year and cannot do crap long term, and Boehner’s which might have a hope of doing something longterm.

Zaggs on July 27, 2011 at 9:09 PM

NO there are plenty of other options. Personally, I like default.

The cost of default would be 100 B a year in additional interest. There is ZERO threat of anyone not financing us at those rates, because we’d STILL be the safest bet in the world (and now. . . with more profit for lenders).

The upside to default is a near immediate 40 percent cut to the federal budget. YES, it will SUCK while they play politic over each and every little program and handout, but that’s just tough sh*t. The pols have had plenty of time to deal with this, they just create their crisis du semaine with the attendant dog and pony show.

22 Billion is a J-O-K-E!

There had better not be one damn bill that gets through the House with a single new red cent in spending after this or I’m Galt.

Jason Coleman on July 27, 2011 at 9:22 PM

Liar, and a strong case for term limits.

ultracon on July 27, 2011 at 9:24 PM

Tina should go on Hannity tonight and call this the “New 878 Billion Dollar Spending Bill. . . Porkulus 2 anyone?”

Jason Coleman on July 27, 2011 at 9:24 PM

$22 billion, huh? How much will we realize that is after we pass this thing? Like $500 million?

JavelinaBomb on July 27, 2011 at 7:41 PM

Less than that. A single unforeseen appropriation bill will wipe away any real savings.

amerpundit on July 27, 2011 at 7:43 PM

Correct, and the next thing little Bammie wants to get on is the usual ‘infrastructure’ and ‘investment’ crap, which means another steaming pile of stimulus.

slickwillie2001 on July 27, 2011 at 9:25 PM

Right: The phantom “savings” from winding down in Iraq and Afghanistan.

They may need them here to maintain order.

Dr. ZhivBlago on July 27, 2011 at 9:28 PM

I know what Barry Soetoro’s plan is. His goal all along has been to divide the GOP (done!), while telling the democrats to vote everything down. Why? He’s going to raise the ceiling using the 14th Amendment. He’s going to say he had no choice because the GOP was obstructing progress.

SouthernGent on July 27, 2011 at 7:55 PM

I swear that you “sound” like Glenn Beck.

ProudPalinFan on July 27, 2011 at 9:32 PM

What a joke…I’m outta here…no more GOP.

It’s third party time…

PatriotRider on July 27, 2011 at 8:01 PM

Don’t let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya.

BTW, where is the Libertarian Party plan?

catmman on July 27, 2011 at 8:12 PM

Simple plan really…created 235 years ago…called the Constitution…both parties seem to have forgotten all about it…

PatriotRider on July 27, 2011 at 9:41 PM

what’s up with this? jb is joking right? once again da jokes on us….

BLKandPRD on July 27, 2011 at 9:42 PM

I gotta go quick-keep in mind right now they are the Party of NO but they are portraying themselves as martyrs to the public. They are spinning it that we’re not doing our jobs nor have good intentions for this country; that Republicans seek the country’s destruction to protect the few.

Time for the GOP to unleash and flip the pancake with their message; that post above with the press conference was great TV for my brain. They still control the message; too bad we “are short on time” so to speak to get the numbers where we want them, and get ObamaCare off the table.

ProudPalinFan on July 27, 2011 at 9:45 PM

Yeah it sucks. But we’re down to 2 plans.

Zaggs on July 27, 2011 at 9:09 PM

No on both and start over.

pedestrian on July 27, 2011 at 9:47 PM

“Trust me, I’m a politician.”

Bishop on July 27, 2011 at 9:51 PM

Meanwhile, according to a Politico story, Reid is calling the Boehner plan a “big wet kiss to the extremist Right” and that he has a signed statement from 53 members of his caucus that will vote “No” on it. Reid wants to go behind closed doors again. The two-tiered plan that does not allow the Dems to fund the government through the 2012 elections is a sticking point for them.

onlineanalyst on July 27, 2011 at 9:52 PM

Weak, cowardly, dishonest…and
100% Republican!

oh and . . . political kryptonite

james23 on July 27, 2011 at 9:53 PM

Third party is a stupid idea. Where are you going to get your third party candidates? How do you guarantee they will not be, or turn into, the same mushy RINOs we have in some seats now?

Better to fix what we have, because as bad as Republicans might be, there are some good ones. Running some primaries is a h of a lot easier than starting a new party. Run those primaries with the same candidates that you would have started your third party with, duh.

The third party fans seem to want to punish the Republican party without considering how to win. So the Republican that loses retires to the ranch, little Bammie wins again, and us regular folks are screwed.

slickwillie2001 on July 27, 2011 at 9:58 PM

The upside to default is a near immediate 40 percent cut to the federal budget. YES, it will SUCK while they play politic over each and every little program and handout, but that’s just tough sh*t. The pols have had plenty of time to deal with this, they just create their crisis du semaine with the attendant dog and pony show.

Jason Coleman on July 27, 2011 at 9:22 PM

I wonder what this near immediate 40 percent cut comes out of?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:U.S._Federal_Spending_-_FY_2007.png

DarkCurrent on July 27, 2011 at 10:02 PM

Boom!!!

dczombie on July 27, 2011 at 10:04 PM

I’m not loving this plan. But at least it is some cuts. $22B is chump change. Granted. But it’s at least a cut (assuming of course $22B is really $22B in cuts). For the past 50 years spending has increased every year. The fact that in 2012 it will have decreased – be it by .00001% – is somewhat positive. Will it save the country? Maybe, maybe not. But we’re in a better position to do that now than we were at this time 2 years ago.

angryed on July 27, 2011 at 10:10 PM

If this post gets caught in the spam filter, the United States will have borrowed $22B more in the time it takes AP or Ed to fish it out.

HitNRun on July 27, 2011 at 10:14 PM

“…, it’s because it’s the best we can do to avert a default right now…”

No offense, but come on. That is the conventional wisdom meme and it is not true. There will be no default unless Obama intentionally decides to default on the feds’ loans. A government shut down could occur, but SS checks, medicare, medicaid, military etc will be up and running and being paid. The vast, vast majority will not care if Education is closed or the EPA or FTC, Agriculture etc. Let the federal employees feel some pain too. Boehner could have come up with a better plan than this [see DeMint's or Mack's plans for example] or just stuck with CCB. Boehner played this poorly, and is apparently getting pushed around by Wall Streeters who are only looking out for their interests from what I heard. He’s just not sharp enough or strong enough to be an effective leader. He needs to be replaced. We could have done better.

JimP on July 27, 2011 at 10:19 PM

I wonder what this near immediate 40 percent cut comes out of?

DarkCurrent on July 27, 2011 at 10:02 PM

That’s their job to figure out. I want the credit cards cut up, NOW!

I think the ONLY reason we should spend money we don’t already have is national security, as in, time of war.

We simply don’t have the money for the big government these pols are so enamored with.

There are ZERO valid reasons for borrowing money like we are with the exception of defending ourselves.

Is your solution to keep digging? Or do you think that continuing to borrow at just half the rate we do is a good plan going forward considering we can’t pay the bills as it is?

Pretty soon, you run out of Visa cards to pay off the Mastercard’s you used to pay the AMEX.

The ONLY other solution is to Drill Baby Drill, anything and everything that will leak black stuff or natural gas should have a straw stuck in it ASAP. Even then, the debt will still kill us if we let them keep spending.

Jason Coleman on July 27, 2011 at 10:19 PM

NO there are plenty of other options. Personally, I like default.

The cost of default would be 100 B a year in additional interest.

Jason Coleman

Guess what? Doesn’t matter. You are not the majority in this country. Neither is the Tea Party. The majority wont care if its simply additional interest (it wont be). What they will care about is that by forcing default the GOP would have made everything Barry said 100% true. By forcing default you give Barry the win.
You want some spending control? Get the GOP in charge of all three branches or at least Congress. Otherwise you’re giving the dims the White House next year and maybe the house as well. Then what spending cuts will you see?

Zaggs on July 27, 2011 at 10:22 PM

angryed on July 27, 2011 at 10:10 PM

Even with 22 B in “cuts”, spending for the year is still going up. Significantly so!

Are you forgetting about the 900 B we’re “going to let O spend” after we “cut” 22 B? You’re also forgetting Obamacare spending to come online and the general upward creep from baseline budgeting.

22 Billion in cuts is NOT EVEN THE EQUIVALENT OF A ROUNDING ERROR!

Jason Coleman on July 27, 2011 at 10:26 PM

That’s their job to figure out. I want the credit cards cut up, NOW!

Jason Coleman on July 27, 2011 at 10:19 PM

I figured you’d already thought it all the way through. Not even any suggestions?

DarkCurrent on July 27, 2011 at 10:29 PM

$22billion this year?

LOL, oh, we are so screwed.

Screw you, Boehner.

Let it burn, and we’ll rebuild it. Best way through the situation at this point with these weasels at the helm. Simply let it destroy itself and we’ll start over if it comes to that; these f@#$wits aren’t going to solve it.

Midas on July 27, 2011 at 10:34 PM

Zaggs on July 27, 2011 at 10:22 PM

Given that everything over 22 B is vaporware when it comes to cuts, and given the track record when we did have all three branches; go back to CC&B and force a vote on it in the Senate.

Let them shoot down CC&B and they’ll own it.

NO MATTER WHAT, DEFAULT OR NO, THE GOP WILL BE DEMONIZED JUST THE SAME. The media will play whatever happens as a win for Obama and a lose for the Republicans.

I don’t really care who is in the White House or Congress if we can hamstring their ability to spend so severely that it takes months of coalition building to finance a post office.

STARVE THE BEAST!

You seem to have this idea that by passing these bogus cuts and giving The Won another 3/4+ of Trillion will swing voters to the Republicans? That’s delusional.

Jason Coleman on July 27, 2011 at 10:37 PM

A government shut down could occur, but SS checks, medicare, medicaid, military etc will be up and running and being paid.

JimP on July 27, 2011 at 10:19 PM

Would they?

SS + medicare/medicaid + defense + debt service = about 69% of expenditures. That’s already over revenues.

DarkCurrent on July 27, 2011 at 10:38 PM

You want some spending control? Get the GOP in charge of all three branches or at least Congress. Otherwise you’re giving the dims the White House next year and maybe the house as well. Then what spending cuts will you see?

Zaggs on July 27, 2011 at 10:22 PM

Honestly, whatever.

Doesn’t matter for many of reasons, the top two of which are:

1 – even with control of the WH, Senate and House, it’s apparent the GOP won’t do anything to fix the situation. The cards are theirs to play now – with full control, they’ll have *less* incentive to stand on principle than they do now – if they can’t *now*, never mind in the future.

2 – waiting until they get full control is simply stupid because by then it won’t matter anyway – we’re f@#$ed. Let the Dems have it at this point – the more they control, the sooner we’ll crash (oh, and we will) and the sooner maybe *then* we’ll get around to pulling our heads out of our asses and actually *do* something sane about it.

Midas on July 27, 2011 at 10:39 PM

I figured you’d already thought it all the way through. Not even any suggestions?

DarkCurrent on July 27, 2011 at 10:29 PM

Dude, peruse the archives a bit; most everyone here has offered more suggestions – and in more specificity – than the Democraps.

Midas on July 27, 2011 at 10:44 PM

There is a good argument that we got as much as we could have. (Of course, this thing isn’t over yet.) But Boehner, McConnell et al. played their hand very poorly. As far as I know they never called out Obama and the Dems for the patently false default talk.

Bill C on July 27, 2011 at 10:45 PM

Dude, peruse the archives a bit; most everyone here has offered more suggestions – and in more specificity – than the Democraps.

Midas on July 27, 2011 at 10:44 PM

I could spend days doing that. Did you have one?

DarkCurrent on July 27, 2011 at 10:45 PM

DarkCurrent on July 27, 2011 at 10:29 PM

I have plenty of suggestions, but there’s really no point in putting out my laundry list.

Cut up the credit cards, stop spending money we don’t have period and immediately.

Drill Baby Drill with any royalties from new production going straight to paying off the debt and ONLY paying off the debt. When the Debt is less than 500 Billion, and we have 2 years of a balanced budget; then and only then would I be willing to talk about any new spending or taxes.

The USA needs YEARS of static taxes and spending while we throw every new dollar we can create (not tax) at the debt.

Cut up the credit cards. . . that’s the best suggestion there is and it’s the only logical first step to get out of this.

The ONLY exception I would make on spending is a threat to national security.

Jason Coleman on July 27, 2011 at 10:46 PM

I have plenty of suggestions, but there’s really no point in putting out my laundry list.

Why not?

Drill Baby Drill with any royalties from new production going straight to paying off the debt and ONLY paying off the debt. When the Debt is less than 500 Billion, and we have 2 years of a balanced budget; then and only then would I be willing to talk about any new spending or taxes.

I agree, but that isn’t going to bring in massive new revenue next week, is it?

The USA needs YEARS of static taxes and spending while we throw every new dollar we can create (not tax) at the debt.

Jason Coleman on July 27, 2011 at 10:46 PM

Static spending still leaves us with a huge gap next week.

DarkCurrent on July 27, 2011 at 10:52 PM

$917 billion over 10 years? Like that will ever happen and it should be cut more like $917 billion a year, at the very least. Obama and the dims want to drive us off a cliff at 200mph and the republicans want to drive us off a cliff at “only” 150mph. Who elected these freaks? Oh that’s right the American people did. It’s hopeless. Every man for himself.

Lon Chaney on July 27, 2011 at 11:00 PM

$91 billion a year over 10 years……?

THAT IS RESPONSIBLE?

ANYONE that stands up there and says that $917 billion over 10 years (and only $22 billion this year) when we are DEFICIT Spending $1.6 Trillion this year and $20 Trillion over that same 10 year period..

……ANYONE that says this is “responsible” is either an idiot or a LIAR.

What the crap are these Tea Party Freshmen idiots drinking up there? We didn’t send them up there to get all warm and fuzzy if Boehner treats them well.

We sent them up there to STOP THE FREAKING SPENDING!!!

PappyD61 on July 27, 2011 at 11:08 PM

Static spending still leaves us with a huge gap next week.

DarkCurrent on July 27, 2011 at 10:52 PM

No, it actually doesn’t. Furthermore, we don’t need to worry about next week, we’ve got the cash flow to make it through the shutdown/slash/cut up the credit cards phase.

Simply wipe off the books any new spending planned but not yet implemented, we can’t pay for it, simple as that.

We’d make it through next week and next month and during that time, managers either need to make do with 50% of their current budget in all but mandatory spending starting yesterday.

It’s actually pretty simple. You do what individuals have always done in times of economic crisis. Stop going into debt (step 1), pay what you have to pay to keep four walls and a roof (step 2) and prioritize from there.

Turn up the thermostats, shut off the lights, and cut, cut, cut each and every place you can until you can get yourself out of the hole.

ANY increase in the debt ceiling is ONLY kicking the can down the road and making it worse in the process.

We need to SUCK IT UP (literally DRILL and get ready to take one in the gut).

END the nonsense with CZARS and unimportant departments like EPA and ED. Turn on the C-Span cameras and CLEAN OUT SOME OFFICES! Restore some confidence that we’re getting back to basics.

End deficit spending and borrowing NOW. There are simply zero logical alternatives to that simple statement that don’t make the problem worse. Just waiting one year to stop deficit spending means TRILLIONS of dollars we have to create in the future.

Fully 50% or more of current federal government activity hampers economic activity in the United States or is pure waste. We’re self-inflicting obstacles upon ourselves, and we’re financing it with massive debt. That is simply insane.

We can stop this madness, we can shake it all down, then as a nation decide in November 2012 which way we want to go now that we’re at rock bottom.

Anything less is pretty much cowardice and an injustice to our children.

Jason Coleman on July 27, 2011 at 11:29 PM

No, it actually doesn’t. Furthermore, we don’t need to worry about next week, we’ve got the cash flow to make it through the shutdown/slash/cut up the credit cards phase.

Simply wipe off the books any new spending planned but not yet implemented, we can’t pay for it, simple as that.

We’d make it through next week and next month and during that time, managers either need to make do with 50% of their current budget in all but mandatory spending starting yesterday.

Jason Coleman on July 27, 2011 at 11:29 PM

We do? Really? What spending is getting cut to get us to a 50% reduction.?

No need to get very specific, just tell me which of these 6 areas you’d cut by what percentage to get to a 50% (or even 40%) reduction in federal spending this year?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:U.S._Federal_Spending_-_FY_2007.png

DarkCurrent on July 27, 2011 at 11:41 PM

I do agree with the goal of cutting 40% ~ 50%, I’d just like to see how it’s supposed to be done in one abrupt leap.

DarkCurrent on July 27, 2011 at 11:44 PM

DarkCurrent on July 27, 2011 at 11:41 PM

See that piece of pie labeled “Discretionary”. Cut it by 50%, yesterday. Send out the pink slips, chain the doors and call the liquidators, void the leases.

This is a cash flow game once you stop borrowing. There will be some late payments, yes. There will be some layoffs and pain. Sorry. WE did it too ourselves.

Start drilling, freeze tax rates and after about 6 months, the economy will take off like a bullet train.

Taking Obamacare out of the picture and immediate budget slashing gives us quite a bit of cushion in our cash flow in the short term. There’s still a third of a trillion in “unspent” Porkulus last time I checked. We have debt and we have debtors, we can start trading around some of that debt where possible.

And we can DRILL. Include with that open up all the wells that are perfectly viable but capped by EPA fiat. Within a very short time, you’ll see job gains and the economy taking off.

The only problem I see there is that if we were to do all that. . . by Nov. 2012, The Won might have some positive news for people.

Jason Coleman on July 28, 2011 at 12:05 AM

See that piece of pie labeled “Discretionary”. Cut it by 50%, yesterday. Send out the pink slips, chain the doors and call the liquidators, void the leases.

Ok, you’ve cut 9.5% of the total …

I suppose the unspent Porkulus resides in the ‘Discretionary’, if anywhere.

Now the other 30 ~ 40%?

Drilling is a great idea, but it doesn’t help in the short term. We’re running up against the credit limit in the very short term.

Where do you cut and enhance revenues NOW?

DarkCurrent on July 28, 2011 at 12:14 AM

So our crack “leadership” in the House has come up with a deal which accomplishes $22 Billion (less than 8 hours of Washington spending) of “savings” in return for an immediate debt limit increase of over $1 Trillion??? …plus $917 Billion savings over 10 years which will never happen!!???!!!

THIS IS A SUCKERS DEAL!!!! Taxpayers lose a MINIMUM of $895 Billion to new wasteful spending and debt!!!!

Is a mental defect, a total lack of judgement, and a complete lack of mathematical ability a requirement to hold a leadership position??

landlines on July 28, 2011 at 12:30 AM

NOT ENOUGH!

Winebabe on July 28, 2011 at 12:39 AM

It’s a CASH FLOW game, do you not see that? Bills we have to pay, we pay, and we’ve got the funds coming in to do that.

Cancel any order for anything non-essential, NOW. No more advertising how to get the maximum Medicare Part D benefit. We don’t need to be running TV ads for that. We don’t need to have SSA conferences, we don’t need any Military recruiting ads or new stationary for the new Colonel on base.

There’s PLENTY of money coming in. The problem is the spending.

Close the satellite offices and put the workers and their telephone lines and computers in the HQ’s, line up half-cubes in the hallways if you have to but preferably, lay off everyone you can.

The CASH FLOW can be managed with existing credit lines and cutting at every opportunity.

Thousands of businesses have hit this very same wall when they couldn’t borrow any more. They RESTRUCTURE, and most do it with a focus on responsible management, making the hard decisions and getting back to the basics of their business.

Our government can do the same thing, without bankruptcy and without defaulting on our obligations. We just won’t be counting owls, throwing parties, buying TV spots, sending useless mailers paying 6 figure salaries as many bureaucrats, etc, etc.

There’s plenty of cash flow for the short term, we can cut enough to keep cash flow going for the medium term and some adult responsible behavior focused on fixing the problem will allow business the reassurances that it can get back to work and expect a profit on the end. Unshackle the energy supply and within a year we’ll be either roaring along or on our way to it.

Our cash flow will hold out till then IF we act responsibly now. If we keep kicking the can we’ll just the problem worse, not better.

There’s also plenty of savings in the mandatory side if we make massive cuts to the discretionary side and end projects that haven’t actually broken ground or launched. It’s amazing the amount that can be saved just by telling everyone in the SSA that there will be absolutely zero office moves/new offices this year regardless of situation.

We don’t need to continue work on the 8 high rises the SSA is currently trying to build. They can stay where they are and rent another floor if need be. Every SSA office doesn’t need to be it’s own little Fort Knox. It’s that kind of pandering waste that sucks the life out of us all and erodes the cash flow.

It is all about the flow, and we if we choose to, and act like adults, we’ve got the cash flow to make it out the other side of this frozen depression.

You do also realize that that little Wiki chart is a fairy-tale right? The Dems haven’t allowed a budget in over 2 years, no one actually knows what is or isn’t “in” one slice of the pie or another. Those figures are what those agencies SAID they were going to spend, most of them are operating illegally with regard to spending monies.

The problem there is no bank or vendor is going to refuse to honor a check from the feds. We have no idea where we are really at right now. The government is spending however it wishes to and there is no control. No one actually knows where the “stimulus” money actually is, they only know what they claim to have spent on whatever they claim to have spent it on.

And THAT is the very root problem. They all write checks however they feel like, there’s not been any significant audits of any federal agency in over 2 years. They can’t stop printing money and shoveling it out the door because once they stop printing and shoveling, bills will pile up for things that were never really authorized in the first place. Stopping the machine exposes the Dems and what they are doing, so they’ll fight a budget and any attempt to turn off the presses to the last.

Which is why we almost HAVE to hold the debt ceiling in place and stop printing. This plunder must stop or there simply won’t be anything to rebuild.

We have the Cash Flow, we just need to use it responsibly and stop just printing money and going farther in the hole.

YES, it will suck, no one likes beans and rice, rice and beans everyday, but it’s what we HAVE to do if we want to move forward.

This will probably be my last post on this thread. I’ve pretty much what I wanted to say about it and then some. The spending has to stop, simple as that. If we default. . . so be it.

Jason Coleman on July 28, 2011 at 12:45 AM

Boehner can only fight so much. He doesn’t have an equal playing field. How many times last week did democrats get in front of media, accuse the GOP of saying “no” to everything despite bills passed and not 1 member of the media call them on it.

Zaggs on July 27, 2011 at 8:55 PM

Ok, I’ll bite, but ask you to reverse this and ask the same question – Reid doesn’t have an equal playing field, nor does Obama. So why is it that it only matters for Boehner and the House GOP? Why are *they* the ones expected to sacrfice in order that the dems/senate/president get what they want?

BS. The GOP have leverage right now that they’ve never had, and will never have again to actually make some positive changes.

They will not, apparently.

Screw them. No more money, no more support, no more votes.

Midas on July 28, 2011 at 1:01 AM

67% of the American public, tens of millions of people, prefer Cut, Cap & Balance. They want you to hang tough and quit giving Obama lifelines. Don’t you know how to negotiate, sir? The national debt is $14 trillion and counting, and your plan does nothing to address this problem.
If Obama is going to veto a proposal, let him veto CUT, CAP AND BALANCE! Don’t you see? If Obama vetoes YOUR piddly bill, you have no backing of the American people. If he vetoes CUT CAP AND BALANCE, which he will, he will be flouting the will of the American people, and it will bolster the Republicans.
Your plan not only gives Obama a lifeline, but you are out on a tightrope with most of the public against you as well. If you go down, dammit, go down swinging for the American majority who supports Cut, Cap & Balance!
Remember: Congress is required by law to pay social security; it’s in the Social Security Act. They MUST send it to the Treasury for payment. It is law, sir. So this is really another Obama-manufactured crisis and the Republicans are falling for it, yet again. First it was TARP, then it was BAIL-OUTS, then it was STIMULUS, and now it’s DEBT CRISIS. It’s not FOOL US TWICE, it’s FOOL US MULTIPLE TIMES.

Mark7788 on July 28, 2011 at 1:12 AM

Progressives play for the long haul. Decade after decade, slowly chipping away to achieve their agenda.

Conservative, purists like too many morons who infest this site, want it NOW!!.

RINO’s need to be purged and conservative, constitutional government needs to be imposed….but it will take a long time. THe Tea PArties are a great start, but strategic withdrawls will always be part of the equation for thos who play for the long haul.

Conservatives should take a few lessons from their Progressive enemies..

rickyricardo on July 28, 2011 at 1:13 AM

BS. The GOP have leverage right now that they’ve never had, and will never have again to actually make some positive changes.

They will not, apparently.

Screw them. No more money, no more support, no more votes.

Midas on July 28, 2011 at 1:01 AM

Classic conservative idiocy and childishness.

No patience and long term strategic planning means no future for constitutional government and continued progressive dominance.

rickyricardo on July 28, 2011 at 1:16 AM

Dear John,

Unless you are proposing entitlement reforms, please cut the 10 year fairy dust crap and give us a 2012 budget. 22 billion cut in exchange for a 1000 billion dollar debt raise. Obama owns you.

AshleyTKing on July 28, 2011 at 1:19 AM

What is it with Boehner liking cr*p sandwiches??

ChuckTX on July 28, 2011 at 1:41 AM

How about we just eliminate food stamps and unemployment compensation (states would be free to issue food stamps and unemployment if they wish) from the federal budget. Then eliminate the Dept. of Education.

crosspatch on July 28, 2011 at 1:52 AM

I’m no fan of the Boehner plan, although the revision is a definite improvement. I still hate the congressional committee for the next installment – it should be up to Obama to present his cuts to Congress, to be scored by CBO, with the understanding the verified amount of his cuts will be the limit of the next debt hike.

But the money for the current budget year is not “future spending” – it’s already been approved. It’s near the end of the year, and that’s always when the deficits show up. Not raising the ceiling at all is just saying we authorized the spending but won’t pay the bill.

I don’t think this is properly understood – nor the consequences of default and/or downgrade. Our interest costs will skyrocket. The budget problems we have now will seem simple, the interest component will be much higher.

To advocate default, or even forcing a shutdown (which equates to a “de facto default” to the ratings agencies – just ask Greece) is not well thought out at all.

Adjoran on July 28, 2011 at 2:09 AM

If this is a cut we are going to have to declare bankruptcy.

I don’t even understand what they are fighting about now. The Democrats agreed not to raise taxes and the Republicans have agreed not to cut the government. Win/Win /sarc.

Why in the world would anyone be upset over this pair of nothing bills? They do nothing, either of them.

Yet, the media fights, the congressmen fight, and Obama threatens to veto the do nothing bills.

Why is there a fight?

petunia on July 28, 2011 at 2:39 AM

Adjoran on July 28, 2011 at 2:09 AM

The downgrade can’t be stopped with raising the debt ceiling. The rating companies said they would downgrade us if we didn’t seriously cut the budget to the tune of 4 trillion dollars.

Is anyone talking about a bill that cuts 4 TRILLION dollars in real cuts. No.

Democrats are pretending that raising the debt ceiling is what the rating companies asked the government to do, but it is not. That is a lie.

We will get downgraded no matter what silly bill passes now, because there is no attempt to even get close to the cuts neccessary to restore faith in the budget process.

Under Obama we have never had a budget to run the government since Obama took office. The Democrats refuse to pass one, because they can’t agree. What kind of banana republic runs without a budget? We deserve to be downgraded until the Democrats lose power and sainty can be restored.

Republicans started to try to get some cuts. They failed. But the downgrade was going to happen anyway. We can only hope the we are still the best hope for profit in the world and no matter the rating we will still get investors.

I think we are still a better bet than putting your money in China or Europe right now. So whether we are AAA or AA it may not matter so much.

petunia on July 28, 2011 at 2:49 AM

He did. The Senate tabled it not bringing it up for discussion or amendments.

catmman on July 27, 2011 at 7:46 PM

Then he should have said, ok. Well, we’re done. Period. END. OF. STORY. All this boot licking is making me mad.

greeneyedconservative on July 28, 2011 at 3:12 AM

Jason Coleman on July 27, 2011 at 11:29 PM

You’re on fire, man, and I agree with you 1000%. Why is it that regular Americans can see what needs to be done and those jackals in DC can’t? Oh, never mind. Answered my own question.

greeneyedconservative on July 28, 2011 at 3:16 AM

This is so obvious…

Boehner made a deal with Obama via Reid… It was obvious that Boehner was working on this the day after the CCB passed the House… He lied to Rush… Instead of standing by CCB & selling it to the Amercian people he moved on… He thought the CCB vote in the House would be enough to give cover & would allowed enough of the House’s Tea Party caucus the excuse to vote for something much, much RINO’ish… But they tried.. ohh how they tried… Sure… Pass CCB on Monday… Talk up talks on other deals on Tues…. Great negotiating… Way to really stick to u’r guns… CCB was a rouse by Boehner…

Look @ both bills Boehner is now championing(“GeeWhizz… This is the best we can do… It’s not great but I can’t do any better”)… Why is boehner’s new bill a close cousin if not a semi-identical twin of the one Reid has been holding onto in the Senate(Without Reid really sharing his since the deal is that Boehner needs to see how close to their(Boehner, Reid, Obama’s) deal structure he can pass in the House)… The Senate & Obama can not move till after Boehner has deliver the Tea Party House members since they are(according to some “were”) the only true obstacle to a weak, water down bill…

And by delivering this deal not only do the Dem’s get the annoying Tea Partiers in the House to fracture(They become the new RINO’s), since debt is at the core of why they where sent to Washington in the first place… The RINO GOP gets the headache of having to deal with the Tea Party rigid debt view lifted… They are all John McCains then… I mean if they cave on this base of their believes… There is nothing left for them to fight to the end for…

Just watch how after Boehner’s bill passes the House tomorrow or Friday… Reid will pass his water down version on a blink of an eye… Then both bills will get fudge up together & by Monday Obama will be signing a bill that pushes the debt ceiling past 11/2012 & doesn’t do a damn thing to lower anything… Other then Military spending… Plus I can’t wait to see how the Press pats them on the back next week… I mean… They love their McCainRINOchiclets(RINRO MCRibs)….

Y314K on July 28, 2011 at 3:57 AM

On Tues. after passing CCB Boehner & the House should of continued to vote on a tweaked CCB bill once a day… They should of kept sending CCB with minor improvements to the Senate… Day after day after day…. No vote no deal… CCB is a solution not a blank check like Boehner’s new bill is….

Boehner’s new bill reminds me of Popeye’s Wimpy – I’ll give u 1 Trillion debt ceiling hike today for 22 Billion & the chance of getting back 900 billion after ten years… Those are Vegas odds…

Y314K on July 28, 2011 at 4:12 AM

AP,

August 2nd =/= default…August 10th =/= default

Gohawgs on July 28, 2011 at 4:40 AM

Y314K on July 28, 2011 at 4:12 AM

Yep…

Gohawgs on July 28, 2011 at 4:42 AM

So there is a deal…

Yesterday, Carney explained that the details of the President’s proposals were not comparable to measures like the Boehner and Reid plans, but rather to concessions that both sides have discussed in the negotiations, and not made public. He explained that this was a strategic effort to prevent political pressure from scuttling a deal before it could even be agreed to.

______________________________________________________

“Jay, since you just said there’s a lot of great detail the President has put out, as a plan, when are you going to submit the Obama plan to CBO for scoring?”

Carney, frustrated, said “Look, we can do this again…Has the Speaker of the House shown you the positions that he took in detail in the negotiations that were designed to achieve a compromise, as opposed to have a show vote…

After some back-and-forth, Carney said, …”(Speaker Boehner) sat in a room with the President of the United States and worked out a detailed compromise. It’s the nature of these kinds of difficult things that you do that in a way so that you agree on the tough choices, you come out together, and you announce them, and you begin to make the hard argument from each person, to his party…that this is a good deal.”

_____________________________________________________

“Someone from Fox sat in a room with senior White House officials and got more detail on the President’s proposal…than you could name me now that was in any of the proposals put forward by House Republicans, and you know it.”

“You haven’t made that plan public.” Ed said. “You just haven’t.”

The CCB was the show vote… The fix is in & they will get away with it since those pesky Tea Party kidz are caving…

Y314K on July 28, 2011 at 4:46 AM

91 billion a year?

And most of the cuts happen after the election I’ll bet.

This is atrocious. This is not a ‘cut’. This isn’t even holding the rate of increase in spending down.

The deficit is what 3-4 billion a MONTH?

91 billion a year is a drop in the bucket.

Shenanigans and a pox on both their houses.

jcw46 on July 28, 2011 at 5:24 AM

Sorry that was 300-400 billion a month. PIMF

jcw46 on July 28, 2011 at 5:26 AM

$917 billion over 10 years

rilly? c’mon, why not say a gazillion……over 10,000 years. Can effectively kicked.

Alden Pyle on July 28, 2011 at 6:25 AM

Judge Judy has some ideas where the government can cut.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7XA2UUpXRk&feature=share

JellyToast on July 28, 2011 at 7:00 AM

“The fact that we’re here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. Leadership means ‘The buck stops here.’ Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better. I therefore intend to oppose the effort to increase America’s debt limit.”

-Senator Barack Obama, 2006

Huckabye-Romney on July 28, 2011 at 7:50 AM

As I see it we are fighting a defensive fiscal war – hold the line until reinforcements arrive next year. Such a strategy has its critics who think we can win the war right now. They are wrong. Right now The Progressives hold 3 of the 4 branches of political power: The Presidency, The Senate, and The National Press.
Thankfully, led by Fox and Talk Radio, we are in a position to blunt the media offensive from the 4th Estate because the conditions on the ground for most Americans are worse since Obama took office, and the future is scary. He is beatable in 2012, as are the Democrats in the Senate.
So we get the best debt deal possible this year, with the strength we now actually have, not what we wish we had. The current deal is just part of our holding action. It will not win the war, but it will buy precious time.
There are no guarantees that the coming Depression can be avoided, but the entrepreneurial infrastructure of America is still viable, unlike most of Europe. If we can win the elections next year, we can reverse our losses and clean house. Keep our powder dry.

williars on July 28, 2011 at 8:34 AM

All of the past brave Americans that have sacrificed their lives and fortunes for this country would reek in horror at the actions of the slimy political scum who currently control this government . . . one must seriously ask if this country, in its current state, is even worth saving.

rplat on July 28, 2011 at 9:27 AM

Watched McLame on Hannity last night and he appeared to be laughing at Sean’s anger and frustration at what is happening to the country caused by the DC elites and all the bickering back and forth. He and all of them feel this way about the American people. They want us to sit down and shut up. He admitted this is a show by Beohner and the repubs to force Zero to ‘get the blame’ instead of the Rs. It’s never been about fixing the debt/deficit or the economy. It’s always been about winning their stupid control game. I’m so glad he wasn’t elected even tho SP would be vp now.

Kissmygrits on July 28, 2011 at 9:32 AM

For anyone who doesn’t KNOW how this is going to go down – let me enlighten you.

The Boehner plan – unfortunately – with it’s weak assed spending cuts that are merely superficial – merely there to convince YOU that there are some cuts in spending – will be passed by the house.

It will then go to the Senate.

The Senate will change this bill into an unrecognizable form – and in the end it will include tax increases and virtually NO spending cuts.

Then the Senate will send that bill back to the house and double-dawg DARE the house to vote down their own bill.

This has been calculated folks – to where, on the eve before default – the ball will be in the GOP’s court and it will have tax increases and various and sundry other abominations.

And the Republicans – afraid of being blamed for a default – will deliver unto you tax increases, and no real spending cuts.

A month from now – everyone will realize – that we’d have been better off just leaving CCB on the table as our last offer – and daring the Dims to pass it or default.

Bank This.

HondaV65 on July 28, 2011 at 9:58 AM

We all know that the $917 Billion in future cuts will never happen. $22 Billion in cuts is not sufficient.

Vote NO on raising the debt ceiling!

jackal40 on July 28, 2011 at 10:19 AM

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