Oof: CBO says Boehner’s bill would save less than $1T over 10 years — and just $1 billion this year; Update: Boehner rewriting bill

posted at 6:40 pm on July 26, 2011 by Allahpundit

Well, so much for that last post. From Table 3 of the CBO’s new scorecard, eyeball the bottom line:

In return for a $1 trillion debt-ceiling increase, and after a promise of $1.2 trillion in cuts, we get … $850 billion in actual savings over 10 years and just $1 billion(!) this year, which plays directly into conservative fears of backloaded deficit reduction that future Congresses will end up canceling. In fairness, as Politico notes, the savings would be $122 billion higher if not for the fact that CBO readjusted its baseline after Obama’s and Boehner’s deal on the 2011 budget, but of course the savings in that deal also fell famously short of conservative expectations. How do you sell 218 Republicans on this deal when they’re still haunted by that one?

Cantor insists that they can still get the votes, partly because more Republicans have become convinced that hitting the ceiling really would jolt the already fragile recovery. Whether that’s still true after this, I don’t know. Frankly, this is probably the best pitch the leadership could offer at this point.

Update: Boehner’s office says they’ll rewrite the bill to make sure that the amount of savings matches the amount of the debt-ceiling increase.

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We spend way too much time looking for someone to look out for us.

Limerick on July 26, 2011 at 7:21 PM

Boehner’s office says they’ll rewrite the bill to make sure that the amount of savings matches the amount of the debt-ceiling increase.

This is a dumb idea: Making future “savings” equal to an IMMEDIATE debt-ceiling increase is a formula for BUSINESS AS USUAL with NO RESTRAINTS ON SPENDING!!! When have future “savings” EVER materialized???

What we need is IMMEDIATE debt reductions via rescission of items authorized by Democrats since 2008…with NO INCREASE IN DEBT LIMIT!!! If Boehner can’t do this, all the real conservatives and Republicans should just sit on their hands and force the spending to slow down and/or STOP. Let the Democrats try to continue expanding government with unicorn farts.

I can’t believe that grown men who (presumably) passed a math class in high school actually bought into the “we have to increase the debt limit because we’re broke” meme.

landlines on July 26, 2011 at 7:21 PM

gophergirl wrote:

I still think Boehner is doing what he feels is right, what he feels is the best he can do. No one likes the plan, I don’t even think he does but I don’t believe he’s trying to “screw” us and I don’t believe he’s in cahoots with the Democrats.

I think that’s true – I think Boehner is trying and doing the best he can, and I don’t think he’s in bed with Harry Reid.

But, this is a bad deal – his best just isn’t enough here and no deal is preferable to putting lipstick on this pig.

CatoRenasci on July 26, 2011 at 7:21 PM

Gohawgs on July 26, 2011 at 7:16 PM

Mark Levin ripped Boehner’s plan today.

http://www.therightscoop.com/levin-to-republicans-stick-to-your-principles/

It’s a disaster and absolutely worthless.

NickDeringer on July 26, 2011 at 7:22 PM

And right2bright accused me of making up the CBO numbers…

steebo77 on July 26, 2011 at 7:22 PM

I want the Penny Plan from Congressman Mack. Sen. Paul signed on.

Never the BS cuts in future increases. One percent cut to baseline, each year for six years. Period.

In hard times your family can cut back 1 percent, why not the government?

barnone on July 26, 2011 at 7:22 PM

That ship has long sailed. We are past caring about the politics – we care about saving our country!

TheRightMan on July 26, 2011 at 7:17 PM

Really? And how are you going to save the country by getting Obama elected to a second term? That doesn’t sound like saving the country to me. This isn’t politics for politics sake. It’s politics for the sake of winning the big prize in 2012 and then we can really save the country.

JohnInCA on July 26, 2011 at 7:22 PM

I just heard them say on Fox news that this bill saves 1.1 trillion in the next 10 years.

I think the hard liners are going to screw around and hand Obama a victory. I really do. If they can not rewrite this bill to get more votes…then the Reid plan might pass.

It is amazing how often people who yack about loyalty are willing to cross the aisle and vote along side the Democrats just so long as they can stick it to their own leadership in the process.

Terrye on July 26, 2011 at 6:51 PM

Did you skip Math in school? 1 Trillion in MAYBE cuts over 10 years adds another 14 Trillion to the debt! How is that supposed to improve our shaky financial situation? Oh yeah… cutting 1 Trillion out of 35 Trillion in spending baby – wow! That’s what – about a 3% cut? Those crazy RINOs are really going to town today!

Ogabe on July 26, 2011 at 7:23 PM

Cowards, all they know how to do is surrender.

Hongqi on July 26, 2011 at 7:23 PM

Update: Boehner’s office says they’ll rewrite the bill to make sure that the amount of savings matches the amount of the debt-ceiling increase.

Will Boehner’s office also rewrite the bill to front-load the cuts?

steebo77 on July 26, 2011 at 7:23 PM

I have no hope for the future of our economy. We’re headed for a depression.

NavyMom on July 26, 2011 at 7:24 PM

With a conservative president, we can push for huge cuts then.

JohnInCA on July 26, 2011 at 7:20 PM

And is the GOP Establishment pushing for a conservative President in 2012? Hint: Their preferred choice is yet to make any meaningful statement on the debt debacle.

TheRightMan on July 26, 2011 at 7:24 PM

EPIC FAIL!

Good God, why should we trust Boehner again on this?

neoavatara on July 26, 2011 at 7:25 PM

Well I’m not worried that this bill is going to pass.I am worried about the repercussions if the Country defaults. Those who said Obama was playing us were right. It is his dream to see us default so he can put the blame on the Republicans. Maybe it will work and maybe it won’t. We shall see.

sandee on July 26, 2011 at 7:25 PM

“save the rage” for Obama.

“don’t hand him a victory”, “we just need to remain calm”.

Okay, let’s see…..

Should we just sit by and watch our Country go to hell?

We’ve got a sellout bunch of ProgressiveCons in charge of the GOP in the House and Senate.

Our Grand plan 3.0 is that we save $100 billion in “cuts” but that’s just a cut in the amount we’re already OVERspending so it’s not a real cut.

We’re going to hand a $1 trillion plus dollar blank check to the guy that’s already blown the budget by 40%.

And we’re already $14 trillion in debt…..and the new plan won’t decrease that AT ALL……in fact under the Boehner plan the total debt would rise to $15 trillion plus by this time next year.

We already know that the Senate won’t pass ANYTHING that the House votes for because President Cloward Piven is marshalling his millions (Unions/LaRaza/Seniors/Gov’t workers/etc.) to march in D.C. against the GOP so why pretend anymore?

This Cloward Pivening of the U.S. started in full force in 1989 (when Bush 41 started his “kinder/gentler” bigger government) and the 1986 Illegal immigration/Amnesty legislation and we’re about to reap the reward for it.

Gird Your loins, we could have a Corazon Aquino moment right here in our own backyard America.

God help us.

PappyD61 on July 26, 2011 at 7:26 PM

i’m sorry to see so much antipathy toward Boehner. We have to be truthful…lies are much more the Dims game.

I heard him on Hannity this PM. This whole thing started back in 1974…when the left ruled the roost. They put in the automatic spending levels…produced by the CBO. What a genius idea..put the leftist agenda on auto-pilot then shriek if the evil Rs want to “cut” any of their precious vote buying bills.

Boehner said that the House has tried to change the 1974 budget act numerous times. Remember the filibuster. Have the Rs had a filibuster proof Senate anytime lately? No.

Ok…so we’ve been boxed in by these CBO scores every since. Forecasting 10 years out is stupid…but is it what they do.

So here’s the truth. Boehner has a weak hand with only one chamber. Reid/Obama are perfectly fine riding this down. Reid/Obama/Pelosi were perfectly fine doing tricks in the back rooms to force obamacare down our throats…they are Perfectly Happy forcing tax increases or anything else they want. They have the Clinton model at the back.

The people have made many poor decisions over the last 40 years…very poor…all for a fake promise of getting a check from the government.

We are hostages to these guys..for Obama it is a win/win deal..trust me on this. This is a war of attrition that will take years/decades to fight. That is why dr. K is correct.

r keller on July 26, 2011 at 7:26 PM

And is the GOP Establishment pushing for a conservative President in 2012? Hint: Their preferred choice is yet to make any meaningful statement on the debt debacle.

TheRightMan on July 26, 2011 at 7:24 PM

Except for supporting Cut-Cap-Balance and the Boehner plan as described.

I’m no supporter of Romney, but at least get your facts right.

KingGold on July 26, 2011 at 7:27 PM

Go through the entire federal government, sell every other desk, file cabinet, pencil, phone, computer, and the person sitting in it. Repeat every year until the budget is balanced and the debt is paid.

kringeesmom on July 26, 2011 at 7:28 PM

Truthful?

I like Boehner, but to say that a reduction in the increase in future spending is a CUT is BS.

The only cut we should accept is a cut in the BASELINE!

barnone on July 26, 2011 at 7:28 PM

None if this is real.
I’m beginning to think the whole thing is theater of the absurd.

How stupid can Boehner be to come this far and not realize what his own freaking bill did?! Talk about losing credibility in front of the Democrats. He doesn’t even know what’s in his own bill!

JellyToast on July 26, 2011 at 7:29 PM

sandee on July 26, 2011 at 7:25 PM

Default? How? As I understand it, current “revenues” exceed our debt obligations enough to fund SS, Medicare and Defense. The EPA, etc., not so much…

Gohawgs on July 26, 2011 at 7:29 PM

Boehner’s office says they’ll rewrite the bill to make sure that the amount of savings matches the amount of the debt-ceiling increase.

SO why didn’t they get it right the first time?

If any conservatives can still be fooled by Boehner, they should be run out of town. he’s a fool whose only shtick is to piss on conservatives and let his sycophants sing his praises in the MSM.

promachus on July 26, 2011 at 7:29 PM

I wish Boehner would step down as Speaker. He’s a nice guy , but he’s a RINO and he doesn’t have what it takes to get the job done.

The cuts HAVE to be this year or they will never happen. Never have!

Sporty1946 on July 26, 2011 at 7:31 PM

Default? How? As I understand it, current “revenues” exceed our debt obligations enough to fund SS, Medicare and Defense. The EPA, etc., not so much…

Gohawgs on July 26, 2011 at 7:29 PM

Yes for awhile. The perception will be that we have. Obama the Dems and his mouthpiece media will beat this drum every day. I wish I could say the public will know better but I don’t have much faith in them.

sandee on July 26, 2011 at 7:32 PM

Really? And how are you going to save the country by getting Obama elected to a second term? That doesn’t sound like saving the country to me. This isn’t politics for politics sake. It’s politics for the sake of winning the big prize in 2012 and then we can really save the country.

JohnInCA on July 26, 2011 at 7:22 PM

Nope, the only people playing politics for politics sake is the GOP Elite. Consider McConnell’s proposal that wanted to give Obama carte blanche to raise the debt limit so that he owns it. As if Obama cares about owning it.

The Dems are hell-bent on remaking the country into a socialist hellhole while the current GOP leadership is trying to “compromise” on the rate at which the transformation will take place.

Fortunately, there is still a sizable remnant that still cares enough for the country to FIGHT!! And we have declared an END to politics as usual!

TheRightMan on July 26, 2011 at 7:32 PM

So Boehner’s plan is to hand Obama $Trillion new spending in exchange for a whole $1Billion in guaranteed spending cuts.

That’s a 1000 to 1 in Obama’s favor! Boehner you’re a joke, retire today, go home and sit on your thumb, that will be a greater help to America than anything else you do.

RJL on July 26, 2011 at 7:33 PM

SO why didn’t they get it right the first time?

If any conservatives can still be fooled by Boehner, they should be run out of town. he’s a fool whose only shtick is to piss on conservatives and let his sycophants sing his praises in the MSM.

promachus on July 26, 2011 at 7:29 PM

They didn’t “get it right” the first time because the CBO got it’s projections wrong. I consider myself a conservative, and know that Boehner is, and has been, one of our greatest in DC. How anyone could think Boehner is sticking it to conservatives is beyond me.

JetBoy on July 26, 2011 at 7:34 PM

Fortunately, there is still a sizable remnant that still cares enough for the country to FIGHT!! And we have declared an END to politics as usual!

TheRightMan on July 26, 2011 at 7:32 PM

I wish I shared your optimism.

sandee on July 26, 2011 at 7:34 PM

The ONLY solution (not safe for RINO’s)

http://www.therightscoop.com/levin-to-republicans-stick-to-your-principles/

winston on July 26, 2011 at 7:36 PM

JetBoy on July 26, 2011 at 7:34 PM

Looky who came in to wash the sand off…

Oh, and, The Spelunker caved!!!

Gohawgs on July 26, 2011 at 7:37 PM

does anyone doubt these guys wouldn’t be out marching around the U.S. Capitol if needed?

p://dailycaller.com/2011/07/25/la-raza-carrying-obama%E2%80%99s-agua/

PappyD61 on July 26, 2011 at 7:37 PM

When Republicans finally cave, and they will because their House leaders are the wimp-brothers Boehner & Cantor and their Senate leader is the RINO Mitch McConnell, they acknowledge that Obama’s position was the superior position.

Mahdi on July 26, 2011 at 7:38 PM

And you can cut a couple of trillion by doing nothing.

So why are they doing something? If they are afraid of what the D’s and MFM will paint them as NOW and they pass this garbage because of that, then a lot of these asshats will find that they will get primaried come next year because they could not STOP THE SPENDING.

Not next year. Not a decade from now. No, those never really show up when you play that game. So the cuts come NOW. Fear rebukes now? Good-bye to your seat next November. It doesn’t matter how nice you are, what kind of speeches you give or what you promise: vote for this now and you will find yourself with regular folks after the next elections. D’s and R’s BOTH.

ajacksonian on July 26, 2011 at 7:41 PM

Fortunately, there is still a sizable remnant that still cares enough for the country to FIGHT!! And we have declared an END to politics as usual!

TheRightMan on July 26, 2011 at 7:32 PM

I wish I shared your optimism.

sandee on July 26, 2011 at 7:34 PM

You know why I remain optimistic, Sandee? Every scam has an expiration date. The country is hurtling towards a scenario that will make Greece look like paradise.

When the welfare society crashes, even the most die-hard liberal will become conservative. Look at all the European countries being forced to adopt austerity measures. It will all end sooner or later.

So we either take our bitter pills or keep on living in LaLa land until it all comes crashing down. Either way, conservatism and a more prudent future will be the winner.

TheRightMan on July 26, 2011 at 7:41 PM

When Republicans finally cave, and they will because their House leaders are the wimp-brothers Boehner & Cantor and their Senate leader is the RINO Mitch McConnell, they acknowledge that Obama’s position was the superior position.

Mahdi on July 26, 2011 at 7:38 PM

Yes you’re right having control of The White House, the Judiciary and the Senate is the superior position.

sandee on July 26, 2011 at 7:45 PM

Everybody needs to calm down. The battle is in 2012, not now.

Think.

faraway on July 26, 2011 at 7:46 PM

Looky who came in to wash the sand off…

Oh, and, The Spelunker caved!!!

Gohawgs on July 26, 2011 at 7:37 PM

It’s certainly not the best of situations, and I wouldn’t be surprised if Boehner has an ace up his sleeve…but I can’t agree he “caved”. Heck he even got Paul Ryan on board.

And I miss home :(

JetBoy on July 26, 2011 at 7:46 PM

The world is not going to come to an end before the elections.

faraway on July 26, 2011 at 7:46 PM

Boehner should just move his office over to K Street…That’s his constituency. K Street says jump, Congress asks how high…pathetic.

repvoter on July 26, 2011 at 7:47 PM

Everybody needs to calm down. The battle is in 2012, not now.

Think.

faraway on July 26, 2011 at 7:46 PM

Yes. Emotions are running pretty high right now.I guess we all expected when we won the House in 2010 we could just walk right in and change all the bad things. Sadly that is not the case. We truly need to win back the Presidency in 2012. That’s the hill I’m willing to fight for.

sandee on July 26, 2011 at 7:48 PM

Fortunately, there is still a sizable remnant that still cares enough for the country to FIGHT!! And we have declared an END to politics as usual!

TheRightMan on July 26, 2011 at 7:32 PM

I totally agree. I just think you have to pick your fights. If you want to die on this hill and watch Obama get re-elected, go ahead and pat yourself on the back about how your are fighting and kicking ass and taking names.

Where can you effect more change, with the 2011 debt ceiling or with a Republican president in 2012? I just think that the real fight is election 2012, not debt-ceiling 2011.

Think about it. Obama wanted a clean debt ceiling vote and didn’t get it. Obama wanted tax increases and didn’t get them. We are winning as long as we don’t run over the cliff.

I’ve been to tea parties, I am a tea partier, and let me tell you, the best thing that could happen for this country would not be holding out for an extra $500bn or $1T more now, but would be seeing a Republican beat Obama in 2012. Then we can really do the things we all want.

JohnInCA on July 26, 2011 at 7:49 PM

JetBoy on July 26, 2011 at 7:46 PM

I’ll bet your hat that he has a deuce up his sleeve…

ktmol has been looking for ya…

Gohawgs on July 26, 2011 at 7:50 PM

JetBoy on July 26, 2011 at 7:46 PM

You’re not loving your new job and location?

Cindy Munford on July 26, 2011 at 7:52 PM

Remember that by NOT cutting any departments from the budget that is an ENDORSEMENT of them.

It isn’t about the money but the size, scope and power of this government. That is reflected in the amount of money it consumes. If you are touting the NEXT election then you are saying that the LAST one was meaningless and we should walk away from the idea of stopping the spending. If you want elections to MATTER then start supporting them AFTER they are over as well as before. Is it so very hard to keep in mind that Remember in November was supposed to mean something? Or is that all just gamesmanship with our fellow countrymen’s livelihoods as the chips that we ante up to play?

ajacksonian on July 26, 2011 at 7:52 PM

My understanding is that the out year cuts proposed are largely smoke. A particular Congress cannot tie the fiscal hands of a future Congress. In effect, if you don’t get it now you might not get it. Can the cuts be enshrined in an extra budgetary statute somehow to make today’s decisions binding in the future?

Is there a federal budgetary person out there that can confirm/refute/explain?

Mason on July 26, 2011 at 7:52 PM

Update: Boehner’s office says they’ll rewrite the bill to make sure that the amount of savings matches the amount of the debt-ceiling increase.

This just proves that it’s not that Obama and his Democrats are all that smart.. our side is just really stupid!

1 billion in cuts this year and Obama wants to veto it? And they were claiming Obama gave the Tea Party some kind of big victory? Yeah, right!

This is who we’ve got fighting for our side?
We’re all screwed over a thousand times.

I think I’m going to bang my head 20 times against the freakin wall to wake myself up from this coma I am in!
How many freaking times do we get screwed over by our own leaders? How many freaking times do we have to keep telling these people the same freaking stinking message. Oh, like a thousand times to the 10th freaking power!

I heard today that the government has 85 billion dollars in cash on hand! 85 billion dollars of cash and it isn’t enough to pay the bills and there is nothing nowhere now that can be cut! Every freaking dollar this over sized bloated bureaucracy spends has got to be spent and more!
85 billion of cash! I can’t imagine that kind of money and yet that is just a drop in the bucket of this budget!

And all our own side can come up with is to beat their chests like they’re really doing something and all it is is a stinking measly 1 billion!

JellyToast on July 26, 2011 at 7:52 PM

so now we have zerohedge quoting NRO…

Yet surprisingly enough, as the National Review Online presents, even without actually having any plan, Obama is still happy to announce he will veto Boehner’s plan. It is one thing to veto one plan over another, if one believe the “another” is better. But vetoing something on purely ideological grounds, in the complete absence of “another”… well that we have no idea how it can possible be spun aside from pure ideological demagoguery

and everyone says that barry is incompetent and inexperienced. Ha…his skill set seems to be working…demagoguery at this level takes talent…raw talent

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/cbo-scores-boehners-laughable-deficit-cut-plan-jay-carney-admits-obama-still-does-not-have-actu

r keller on July 26, 2011 at 7:56 PM

I totally agree. I just think you have to pick your fights. If you want to die on this hill and watch Obama get re-elected, go ahead and pat yourself on the back about how your are fighting and kicking ass and taking names.

JohnInCA on July 26, 2011 at 7:49 PM

We were told two things would happen on or after August 2nd:

1. A default; and
2. A credit downgrade.

Obama went further and has threatened to withhold grandma and military cheques.

All these have turned out to be lies.

1. A default will NOT occur because we have more than enough revenue coming in to service our debts.
2. Our credit is 90% likely to be downgraded unless we come up with more serious proposals than either the Boehner or Reid proposals.

And grandma and the military will still get their cheques.

What will have to happen though is an immediate downsizing of an already bloated Govt. possibly by 40%. Considering the fact that a bloat of 25% has occurred in Obama’s first two years – that doesn’t sound so bad.

TheRightMan on July 26, 2011 at 8:00 PM

1,000 billion new spending.
1 billion in cuts.
Fail.

AshleyTKing on July 26, 2011 at 8:01 PM

Real spending increases right now, and fairy dust cuts in the future. $1000 in new spending for every dollar cut.

AshleyTKing on July 26, 2011 at 8:05 PM

Is there a way to access information on every dime the government spends each year? From pork projects to government agencies?

If they can’t find cuts then maybe we should find cuts for them!

JellyToast on July 26, 2011 at 8:05 PM

It isn’t about the money but the size, scope and power of this government.
ajacksonian on July 26, 2011 at 7:52 PM

BINGO and DITTOS!!! I agree with everything you so eloquently wrote but this sentence takes the cake! It deserves to be trumpeted to the skies.

Boehner and the GOP Establishment, since they took over, have been throwing dust into our eyes quibbling over cuts of a million or billion from trillion dollar deficits.

But it isn’t about the money – we want them to CUT the SIZE of the Govt. And that they are unwilling to do.

TheRightMan on July 26, 2011 at 8:05 PM

Where can you effect more change, with the 2011 debt ceiling or with a Republican president in 2012? I just think that the real fight is election 2012, not debt-ceiling 2011.

Think about it. Obama wanted a clean debt ceiling vote and didn’t get it. Obama wanted tax increases and didn’t get them. We are winning as long as we don’t run over the cliff.

I’ve been to tea parties, I am a tea partier, and let me tell you, the best thing that could happen for this country would not be holding out for an extra $500bn or $1T more now, but would be seeing a Republican beat Obama in 2012. Then we can really do the things we all want.

JohnInCA on July 26, 2011 at 7:49 PM

Are you by any chance a Romney supporter? looks like this bad deal is being advocated not for the good of the country but because the elites want to make Romney president. Nobody wants to jeopardise the Mittens chances.

promachus on July 26, 2011 at 8:07 PM

It’s certainly not the best of situations, and I wouldn’t be surprised if Boehner has an ace up his sleeve…but I can’t agree he “caved”. Heck he even got Paul Ryan on board.

And I miss home :(

JetBoy on July 26, 2011 at 7:46 PM

What’s so surprising about it? Paul Ryan is a creation of the establishment. He’s there to create unpassable things like his budget and throw dust in our eyes and never deliver doable reform. He’s there to give cover to Boehner. That’s it.

promachus on July 26, 2011 at 8:09 PM

The hostility toward Boehner on here is ridiculous. I worried about him as Speaker, but he has not caved to Obama despite withering attacks in the media, nor has he given the party’s base any of those condescending “you don’t understand how Washington works” lectures we typically get from GOP leadership. His response to Obama Friday night was strong and combative. Perhaps it’s just the Tea Party reps. holding his feet to the fire, but so far Boehner is hanging tough. The GOP have only the House right now, and they’ve got a handful of squishy lib GOP senators in the Senate who will rubber stamp anything Harry and President Cry Baby want. Boehner is herding cats, and doing a damn good job of it so far. Let him rewrite the bill and get it passed. After that, I don’t even think Snowe, Collins, MurCOWski, or Brown can make nice with Reid without looking like total jack wagons. And if Boehner is successful, the Obama Regime gets to tell us just where they’ll be cutting spending — and how much they’ll be raising our taxes — just a few months out from the election.

Rational Thought on July 26, 2011 at 8:09 PM

To add to my last comment:

Who is truly afraid of August 2nd? Obama or Boehner? Obama doesn’t seem to care, even threatening to veto whatever comes to his desk unless it removes the debt limit as an election issue.

Boehner is however falling head over heels coming up with plan upon plan. This, coupled with his reluctance to shut down the Govt. over the 2011 CR, shows that the GOP Establishment is more afraid of the resultant downsizing of the Govt. that will be forced if the debt limit is not raised.

I guess they fear that once people realize that the Govt. can function well with a reduced budget, their game will be up!

TheRightMan on July 26, 2011 at 8:10 PM

Just call the Senate and tell them CCB is ‘the bill’. Quit with the nonsense and foolishness.

Midas on July 26, 2011 at 8:11 PM

Honestly, any plan that increases the debt ceiling is not a serious plan. While there are some rationales for using debt financing to try and start growth to solve a larger debt problem, that case has not been made here nor do I believe that case CAN be made.

JohnTant on July 26, 2011 at 8:13 PM

Update: Boehner’s office says they’ll rewrite the bill to make sure that the amount of savings matches the amount of the debt-ceiling increase.

And this matters why? Even if we choose to believe it (and why should we), there’s no guarantee that the cuts will actually happen, remain in place under future Congress’s, etc.

No dice. The more I think about it, I don’t even want CCB anymore – zero credibility that it will occur.

I dare them – let August 2nd come and see what happens.

Midas on July 26, 2011 at 8:17 PM

Honestly, any plan that increases the debt ceiling is not a serious plan. While there are some rationales for using debt financing to try and start growth to solve a larger debt problem, that case has not been made here nor do I believe that case CAN be made.

JohnTant on July 26, 2011 at 8:13 PM

Said plan also needs to include immediate repeal of Obamacare or it’s not serious or credible.

Midas on July 26, 2011 at 8:18 PM

I have no hope for the future of our economy. We’re headed for a depression.

NavyMom on July 26, 2011 at 7:24 PM

NavyMom, we are already in a depression. Take away the $1.5T+ in annual deficit spending and GDP sinks by 10%+. Right now, the battle is how bad a depression and for how long. Apparently the RINO-ship inside the Beltway cares more about gaining more power in 2012 than righting this train wreck of an economy.

This is the hill to die on.

TheAdmiral on July 26, 2011 at 8:18 PM

To add to my last comment:

Who is truly afraid of August 2nd? Obama or Boehner? Obama doesn’t seem to care, even threatening to veto whatever comes to his desk unless it removes the debt limit as an election issue.

Boehner is however falling head over heels coming up with plan upon plan. This, coupled with his reluctance to shut down the Govt. over the 2011 CR, shows that the GOP Establishment is more afraid of the resultant downsizing of the Govt. that will be forced if the debt limit is not raised.

I guess they fear that once people realize that the Govt. can function well with a reduced budget, their game will be up!

TheRightMan on July 26, 2011 at 8:10 PM

They are afraid of the electoral consequences — as well they should be. Barry is chompin’ at the bit to stop those SS checks and those veterans’ checks, and when he does — and by God he will — it will be pegged squarely on the GOP’s backs and they will not recover in time for 2012. Want four more years of Barry — maybe with the House back? Let Boehner pass a bill that raises the ceiling with equal cuts, and send it to the Senate. Then send the House members home. Over. Done. Any default will be on Reid and the democrats.

Rational Thought on July 26, 2011 at 8:20 PM

I haven’t had time to check any of the threads yet, but Sen. Rand Paul was talking about a plan, promoted by Mercatus (I believe) and sponsored by someone else (I cannot remember the name) on Hannity this afternoon. This plan cuts all of the hocus pocus and could put us on the road to fiscal sanity. It involves one percent cuts over several years of all departments and agencies, and it doesn’t play games with phony cuts to growing budgets year-by-year.

The credit agencies have already said that Reid’s plan is a no-go because it counts phony cuts to defense with the withdrawals from Iraq and Afghanistan. It is hard to believe that the CBO would give a green light to Reid’s nonsense.

If Congress has already appropriated the funding that is causing this “debt crisis,” then maybe it is time for Congress to go back and rescind those appropriations. Maybe it is time to push back at ObaMao, too, for his recalcitrance in keeping the explosive debt of O-care, “green jobs,” and high-speed trains off the bargaining table. There is no money for these boondoggles.

Atlas is shrugging big time.

onlineanalyst on July 26, 2011 at 8:21 PM

This is the hill to die on.

TheAdmiral on July 26, 2011 at 8:18 PM

No. It isn’t. 2012 is.

Rational Thought on July 26, 2011 at 8:21 PM

Remember the idea of getting rid of Obamacare?

The Republicans in the House decided on the single vote to get a bill that would die in the Senate. That was it, they didn’t bring it up again to keep on pointing out where the problem was in cutting the size of government or its power.

They went for SYMBOLISM over SUBSTANCE.

The election of 2010 wasn’t about SYMBOLISM it was about SUBSTANCE. Apparently the Republicans have decided that they prefer substance abuse in the way of government power, than checking it and forcing a rehash on a continual basis until the point is driven home that until the Senate is out of the hands of those supporting the size of this government NOTHING will get done about it.

Boehner is offering up SYMBOLISM again.

Where is the beef?

ajacksonian on July 26, 2011 at 8:22 PM

and this is the main reason we shouldnt rush to a deal. so what aug 2! who cares craft something that HELPS US in the future not F*cks us UP !!!

ColdWarrior57 on July 26, 2011 at 8:23 PM

Are you by any chance a Romney supporter? looks like this bad deal is being advocated not for the good of the country but because the elites want to make Romney president. Nobody wants to jeopardise the Mittens chances.

promachus on July 26, 2011 at 8:07 PM

Hell no, I’m not a Romney supporter. I’m hoping Perry gets in.

TheRightMan on July 26, 2011 at 8:00 PM

RightMan, everything you say is true. But, two things:

1) The low-information voter doesn’t know all the ins and outs of what can still be paid and what can’t. All they know is they keep hearing default and republicans.

2) Even if we still pay the interest, SS, Medicare, military, etc, you still have to admit that you don’t know what the markets will do if the ceiling isn’t raised.

If the market tanks, everybody who has a 401k, 403b, 529 and so on that was decimated in 2008 and has almost made it back to where it was will see those accounts decimated all over again.

People will be irate and who do you think gets the blame for that? I guarantee it won’t be Obama and the Dems. And with that, you can kiss the presidency in 2012 goodbye. I don’t want to take that risk right now. I want Obama out in 2012 more than anything else because that is ultimately what is best for the country.

JohnInCA on July 26, 2011 at 8:25 PM

Let Boehner pass a bill that raises the ceiling with equal cuts, and send it to the Senate. Then send the House members home. Over. Done. Any default will be on Reid and the democrats.

Rational Thought on July 26, 2011 at 8:20 PM

Erm… that has already been accomplished with CCB! And Boehner should have sent the House members home after they passed CCB. But oh no… I guess he brought CCB up for a vote just to placate the “wingnuts”. His heart was never in it.

Why did he not pick CCB as the base legislation and just tweak it minutely to attract Dem votes and fight for it to be brought up on the Senate floor? He is willing to tweak this sham proposal but not CCB?

TheRightMan on July 26, 2011 at 8:26 PM

No. It isn’t. 2012 is.

Rational Thought on July 26, 2011 at 8:21 PM

2012 is not a hill. It’s an election. It’s about nominating and electing the right people. It’s not a legislative line based on principle.

At some point we have to become intransigent. That’s the Marxist’s M.O. They dig in to extract incremental change. We are the only one’s who are proposing any sort of plan. And we have proposed two sensible plans that have both passed the House; the Ryan plan and CCB. The time for negotiating is over.

We dig in.

We force Reid and his ilk to propose something and see how that piece of garbage flies with the American people.

It won’t.

There are way too many vulnerable donk Senators up for re-election in 2012 for them to turn away from any sort of reasonable deficit and debt reducing plan.

We dig in now.

TheAdmiral on July 26, 2011 at 8:28 PM

Instead of hoping that the country defaults, why don’t we just win the election and then have the Republican Congress and president begin seriously cutting spending. If conservatives allow default, Obama will get re-elected.

andy85719 on July 26, 2011 at 8:30 PM

People will be irate and who do you think gets the blame for that? I guarantee it won’t be Obama and the Dems. And with that, you can kiss the presidency in 2012 goodbye. I don’t want to take that risk right now. I want Obama out in 2012 more than anything else because that is ultimately what is best for the country.

JohnInCA on July 26, 2011 at 8:25 PM

John, Obama is still in good stead to be re-elected in 2012 and you know why? Because the GOP Establishment is determined to alienate their base.

The GOP has more to fear from an irate base than a so-called non-existent middle!

Obama is already past his due date. A lot of people have already made up their minds to vote him out in 2012 but the GOP persists in giving many the reasons NOT to hand over power to them.

Our so-called leaders have never bought into conservative small-Govt. principles. Infact, they hated the Tea Party with a passion equal to or more than the Dems.

Who are they pushing for President? A reformer? Nope! They want a go-along-to-get-along wussy who would NEVER veto an earmark nor reduce the size of Govt.

TheRightMan on July 26, 2011 at 8:34 PM

Instead of a balanced budget amendment, I suggest an amendment that forbids calculating revenue and spending beyond the current session of Congress.

That means you can’t write a bill that says “saves $10T over the next 20 years”. It has to say “increases spending by $580B over the next 2 years” if thats what it does.

These decadal calculations are mental masturbation, nothing more.

Want to cut spending? Cut it this year. No more “plans” to cut spending later on.

BobMbx on July 26, 2011 at 8:36 PM

Instead of hoping that the country defaults, why don’t we just win the election and then have the Republican Congress and president begin seriously cutting spending. If conservatives allow default, Obama will get re-elected.

andy85719 on July 26, 2011 at 8:30 PM

I fear you are right.I wish I could believe the public will understand who would be to blame.I have a feeling they will be wrong. They will blame the Republicans. Obama is counting on this.

sandee on July 26, 2011 at 8:37 PM

At some point we have to become intransigent. That’s the

We dig in now.

TheAdmiral on July 26, 2011 at 8:28 PM

Yes, by all means. Become intransigent. Dig in. When the market tanks and people’s 401k’s get destroyed you can guarantee Republicans lose in 2012. And then when they are swearing in Barack Obama for a second term you can pat yourself on the back and brag to everyone you know about what a bad-ass you are for dying on this ant hill. Brilliant.

JohnInCA on July 26, 2011 at 8:37 PM

The CCB will never and can never be passed as the Congress is currently constituted. Obama would choose default or use 14th Amendment powers before he allowed it to pass. People on here are acting irrational and dangerous. The quickest way to ensure an Obama reelection is to allow August 2 to pass without a bill.

andy85719 on July 26, 2011 at 8:39 PM

Two things that tell us a lot:

1. Even us lay people could see this was a bad bill.

2. Obama still refuses to agree to it.

SouthernGent on July 26, 2011 at 8:39 PM

And we have proposed two sensible plans that have both passed the House; the Ryan plan and CCB. The time for negotiating is over.

Exactly. The House has passed 2 bills. Walk them over to the Senate, hand them to Reid and say “here ya go, do your thing, pass it, amend it, or vote it down.

If I’m not mistaken, thats what the Constitution says should happen.

BobMbx on July 26, 2011 at 8:40 PM

Everybody needs to calm down. The battle is in 2012, not now.

Think.

faraway on July 26, 2011 at 7:46 PM

Nope.

The battle my friend….never ends.

Be ever vigilent….and NEVER give up.

Tim_CA on July 26, 2011 at 8:41 PM

And then when they are swearing in Barack Obama for a second term you can pat yourself on the back and brag to everyone you know about what a bad-ass you are for dying on this ant hill. Brilliant.

JohnInCA on July 26, 2011 at 8:37 PM

If BO gets re-elected, there won’t be a country to run. We’ll look like Zimbabwe in 6 months.

Carter will be pleased.

BobMbx on July 26, 2011 at 8:41 PM

Found one person that likes this “deal”…

Gohawgs on July 26, 2011 at 8:42 PM

The word ‘default’ is being hideously abused.

If we cover the interest in our debt we are not ‘defaulting’ on the debt.

We will not be spending as much which requires a damned EXECUTIVE to decide how to spend the remainder of the money and the Constitution mandates certain items mentioned specifically in the text of the document. Of those the largest is DoD, it can take a 20% haircut.

Then it is OBAMA who has to decide: pay for SSA and M&M’s or for the EPA, Agriculture, Energy, Education, Labor, the rest of the IRS, DoJ….

That is how this game works. When the money isn’t there the Executive must execute on what funds are available and then begin the process of shutting down other parts of government. He can try to place the blame on others, but he WANTED the job of making such decisions. If granny doesn’t get her check and there is money for SSA available that he thinks is better spent in Agriculture then who, exactly, is denying granny her check? That is up to the Executive to prioritze for the discretionary funding.

Give Obama real decisions to make, real hardships to impose and have his name on those decisions. He can whine, moan and complain to the MFM all he wants but it is his name on who goes home and who gets paid, not Boehner nor Reid’s. That is exactly what not raising the debt ceiling will do.

Obama is afraid we will not MISS those discretionary parts of the government beyond ‘entitlements’.

He is right.

That is why he keeps on saying ‘default’ when it is simply not spending money for discretionary items. The government gets to do that: it is in the law that it can terminate that spending for convenience of the government. One part of the sovereign powers says that the spending shall end, the other part decides who gets a haircut and who gets the axe. Tough that an Executive must actually make decisions… but that is what they do.

ajacksonian on July 26, 2011 at 8:42 PM

This whole thing started back in 1974…when the left ruled the roost. They put in the automatic spending levels…produced by the CBO. What a genius idea..put the leftist agenda on auto-pilot then shriek if the evil Rs want to “cut” any of their precious vote buying bills.

The left is genius in this way. They leverage the legislative process to build in funding via creating entire departments that carry their water, via creating public employee unions who in turn receive tax payer dollars that ultimately become Democratic campaign cash sources, and tax payer funding liberal advocacy groups like ACORN and Planned Parenthood.

I’ve always said the Republicans are minor league ball players playing a major league game. Look around and tell me I’m wrong.

rickyricardo on July 26, 2011 at 8:43 PM

Give Obama real decisions to make, real hardships to impose and have his name on those decisions. He can whine, moan and complain to the MFM all he wants but it is his name on who goes home and who gets paid, not Boehner nor Reid’s. That is exactly what not raising the debt ceiling will do.

Obama was right about one thing…being president of China would be easier.

BobMbx on July 26, 2011 at 8:44 PM

One way of looking at this debate is to imagine this:

The year is 20XX. The GOP holds Congress and the White House. They propose a budget that among other things appears to make cuts to a number of Dem priorities, although in reality it is a modest proposal ala Wisconsin.

Will the Dems fold because they are in the Minority or will they throw a hissy fit and attempt to bring everything done?

If you guess the former, you are absolutely right. Dems will go all out, including shutting the Govt. down to get what they want. Our RINO leaders, trust me, will be busy compromising even in such a scenario because they are afraid of being blamed.

In short, Dems fight and the GOP always CAVES when led by RINOs.

TheRightMan on July 26, 2011 at 8:46 PM

When the market tanks and people’s 401k’s get destroyed you can guarantee Republicans lose in 2012. And then when they are swearing in Barack Obama for a second term you can pat yourself on the back and brag to everyone you know about what a bad-ass you are for dying on this ant hill. Brilliant.

JohnInCA on July 26, 2011 at 8:37 PM

What is the point of Republicans winning if they can’t do anything? We didn’t elect them to keep them in perpetual power. We elected them to get results. If Boehner can’t do it, he needs to step aside.

promachus on July 26, 2011 at 8:48 PM

If this were truly a dollar-(or better)-for-dollar match of spending cuts for debt ceiling increase, wouldn’t the “match” have to occur in the same time frame? How does a spending reduction spread over ten years match new debt that will be consumed before the next election? What am I missing?

Barnestormer on July 26, 2011 at 8:50 PM

Sorry, my previous comment should read:

Will the Dems fold because they are in the Minority or will they throw a hissy fit and attempt to bring everything done?

If you guess the former latter, you are absolutely right…

TheRightMan on July 26, 2011 at 8:50 PM

ajacksonian on July 26, 2011 at 8:42 PM

Obama has already stated, We’re not going to Default.

Dr Evil on July 26, 2011 at 8:52 PM

Boehner blew it with this bill, the back-loaded cuts and the stupid “commission” idea.

ALL long-term cuts will be back-loaded, of course, since reducing the baseline now cuts spending every year hence, like a snowball rolling downhill, but we need something more substantial. We need to find at least $10 billion in current year (which is almost over) cuts and $50-100 billion in the next, which help lead to a much bigger future reduction.

The worst part of it is the commission, though. We’ve had 17 commissions to cut spending or deficits since 1981, and spending increased after every single one of them. The ’80s Grace Commission on wasteful spending identified several programs which weren’t doing anything, had outlived their purpose or their duties had been transferred to other agencies or departments, and the Democratic Congress would not even cut those.

When Republicans took over ten years later, they didn’t cut them either. I suspect there are still people who have offices and draw paychecks who do absolutely nothing every day.

The IG audit of the Education Department budget from 1991-2000 found $100 billion unaccounted for. They couldn’t say it was stolen or wasted, they could find no trace of it at all! Yet this Department still exists and still grows.

No more commissions. Congress IS our “bipartisan commission.” Act like it.

Adjoran on July 26, 2011 at 8:53 PM

The devil is always in the details…we learned from decades of ‘go along to get along’ compromise that cuts have to be solid and up front or our politicians will sell us out as soon as the spotlight is off.

JIMV on July 26, 2011 at 8:57 PM

rickyricardo on July 26, 2011 at 8:43 PM

minor league?…yeah, I think that’s fair in one respect. Clearly the left is far more strategic than the right. There have been many waves of the progressive project. The 60s/70s were one. They really retrench when defeated (like Reagan) and do a lot of planning. W really blew their mind, so they had lots of people working in a “shadow government”…the Sec of State project, etc.

I saw an interview with podesta on a uk channel and the interviewer referred to CAP as the government in exile (this was after barry got elected)..podesta laughed, a little nervously. The left are patient and planners..and have lots of tools and levers that they can use.

So, yeah, Rs don’t do that well. The vision is different…it is not a government in exile, but freedom, liberty that are important. The ability to be left alone to run your life or business…not planning how to take over the government to create a workers’ paradise

r keller on July 26, 2011 at 8:58 PM

If Boner was a card player he’d be sitting in his underwear… and about to lose that. He announces early to the media that Obamma will get his debt increase, before they even have a plan to present. WHO The H announces they intend to cave at the start of the game? The guy should be called Sucker of the House.

leftnomore on July 26, 2011 at 8:58 PM

Reid wants his bill to be the last one voted on before the 2nd because he knows the general public is paying scant attention to what is going on and the only thing they will remember is the Tea party voted against the last chance to get an increase in the debt.
It’s ALL political with Reid and bamster they don’t care about the country and never have.

ouldbollix on July 26, 2011 at 9:00 PM

1B by the next election, and a whole 17B by the next midterm elections. Wow 213B saved by the time we reach the end of the 2016 election cycle. Now that is savings you can write in stone.

astonerii on July 26, 2011 at 9:07 PM

The significant information is that Boehner, House GOP are “rewriting the bill”.

I also think that Boehner should get more support from the Right and far less sniping – he appears to be trying to accomplish real effects to help us all out as a nation and not to be playing politics as usual.

I admire him for this. As also Ryan and Cantor.

Lourdes on July 26, 2011 at 9:11 PM

And it’s obvious to all but the disengaged that Reid and Obama are the problems here — Obama has no plan, nothing he’ll put in writing. Reid (and Pelosi) have their same-old same-old Leftwing (and Communist) slurs and Reid’s repeating Plans reshuffling those same demands including his Voodoo Economics methods reveal him and his to be utter nincompoops.

Perhaps “nincompoops” is a bad thing to call Reid, et al. Maybe just “intentionally destructive of the U.S.A.”

Lourdes on July 26, 2011 at 9:14 PM

He announces early to the media that Obamma will get his debt increase, before they even have a plan to present. WHO The H announces they intend to cave at the start of the game? The guy should be called Sucker of the House.

leftnomore on July 26, 2011 at 8:58 PM

Boehner is speaking to the markets so they don’t get jittery. Our economy effects every other economy in the world. What’s transpiring right now in this country is being watched by the entire world. The theater we are witnessing is not just for domestic consumption.

For instance the Chinese like it when our economy is doing well so we can import their cheap Chinese products. Our consumption of Chinese imports, effects their economy and manufacturing base. Everything is intertwined. The dollar is the default currency for the world. The decisions our government makes, effects thing like the value of the dollar, and the price of gas….and inflation.

In a nutshell the world would like us to get our economic house in order, they benefit when we act like a working free market society NOT a Harvard academic, pseudo socialist -redistributing experiment. I don’t feel sorry for the Internationals though, they wanted Obama they got him. A green ambitious amateur pol.

Dr Evil on July 26, 2011 at 9:17 PM

John Campbell just said on Hugh Hewitt he was going to vote against this sham. I trust Campbell more than Boehner. Back to the drawing board.

jawkneemusic on July 26, 2011 at 6:43 PM

I agree as to Campbell…but look at it this way: the GOP *DOES* have talent among it’s ranks in the House, Campbell is proof of that as are others there.

But I do think Boehner deserves more credit. He’s working on a plan that Campbell and others WILL support so in that, allow him his errors as long as he’s willing to correct them and involved in doing so (as he is).

Lourdes on July 26, 2011 at 9:19 PM

I get tired of saying I told you so. The GOP can’t be trusted no matter what and until we replace these wusses with real men with a spine, we will always be going through the same song and dance. Primary and replace is the only way to end this insanity!

flytier on July 26, 2011 at 9:19 PM

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