Video: Police officer threatens concealed-carry driver with execution, beating; Update: Officer relieved of duty, under investigation

posted at 10:05 am on July 21, 2011 by Ed Morrissey

Ohio’s concealed-carry law requires anyone stopped by police to immediately notify the officer if they are armed.  Failure to do so is a first-class misdemeanor that can result in a six-month jail term and a thousand-dollar fine, as well as losing the license to carry.  It’s usually not considered a death penalty offense, unless one gets pulled over in Beachwood Canton, Ohio, in a case highlighted today by Ohioans for Concealed Carry:

William pulled his car to the side of the road to let out two passengers, but only the female occupant managed to exit before the police pulled up and began screaming at all three parties. “Stay in that car, I’m not going to mess around,” screamed one of the officers at the two people attempting to exit the vehicle. The driver and concealed handgun licensee, William, remained seated in his vehicle when an officer entered the rear of the vehicle.

William stated, “I have a concealed carry, and…” when he was abruptly told to shut up. Dash camera video footage shows the driver turning his head, and his voice can be heard, but the words are inaudible. A few minutes passed while the officer continued to berate the two passengers. He proceeded to the driver’s side and tries to open the door but is delayed by a seat belt. William states “I have a conceal…” and the officer demands that he better tell the truth or else! This interruption causes William to “tell the truth” and his attempt to notify is interrupted. William exited the vehicle with his driver’s license in the same hand as his concealed handgun license. He held it up for the officer to see, and the officer said, “Why are you having that?” This gave William the opportunity to say, “I have a CCW, and…” The officer then said, “Do you have a gun?” William answered yes, causing the officer to grab it from William’s waist.

At this point, William was handcuffed and put into the police cruiser. The officer then started to berate William, stating: “I should blast you in the mouth right now … I’m close to caving in your head.” and “you’re just a stupid human being!”

The officer continued to berate the driver after arresting him and locking him in the back seat, offering such bon mots as “people like you don’t deserve to @#$%#$ move throughout public. Period!” Just after the discovery of the licensed firearm (and caught on tape), the same officer threatened to “put lumps” on a woman who had been outside of the car if he saw her in the area again. This seems to be an officer intent on delivering street justice more than law enforcement, and one with an anger management problem.

To be fair, even the concealed-carry community in Ohio acknowledges that they have a problem getting licensees to properly inform police during stops. Four years ago, Chad Baus wrote about the issue for the Buckeye Firearms Association, having heard about it from multiple law-enforcement sources. In Minnesota, it’s more of a practice than a requirement (there is no explicit legal language on the subject), but it’s a damned good idea. This past winter I was in a car accident outside of my house, and I made sure that the officer knew immediately of my status. He checked my license but otherwise treated it as no big deal — as it was in this instance. However, police officers are understandably sensitive about being aware of all firearms present at traffic stops, for very good reasons, most of which have to do with gravemarkers of their fellow officers who ended up getting surprised by them.  It’s not for nothing that Ohio included that requirement.

In this case, though, a fair viewing of the videotape shows that the driver did attempt to notify the officers on more than one occasion before stepping out of the car, and tried to do so when the officer approached his window several minutes into the stop.  He may not have done it very well, but it certainly doesn’t appear that the driver intended to keep the information from the police.  The officer told him repeatedly to keep his mouth shut while they checked out the other two people involved in the stop.  Threatening death and/or a beating to a man who tried repeatedly and finally succeeded in fulfilling his legal obligation to inform them is irrational and should be illegal.  The driver faces failure-to-inform charges, for which OhioCCW is raising funds, but the court and the city should be taking a look into the actions of this officer during the entire stop.

Addendum: My late friend Joel Rosenberg literally wrote the book on carry licensing in Minnesota, The Carry Book: Minnesota Edition.  Unfortunately Joel passed away before he could complete an edition that looked at the issue nationally, but even if you’re not in Minnesota, there is a ton of good advice for those who want to pursue carry licenses and handle firearms.  My particular favorite chapter of the book is titled, “Cowardice 201: A PhD Seminar in Advanced Staying Out of Trouble,” in which Joel reveals that the true secret of karate is to run faster than everyone else.  Self-defense starts with keeping out of situations where you will likely find yourself threatened.  Joel’s book is a sobering read, literally and figuratively.

Update: The website said Beachwood, but the videotape does say Canton.  Perhaps the driver was from Beachwood.  I’ve corrected the first paragraph to match the video.

Update II: The Canton Police Department has posted a statement today to its Facebook page:

I want to assure our citizens that the behavior, as demonstrated in this video, is wholly unacceptable and in complete contradiction to the professional standards we demand of our officers. As such, appropriate steps were placed in motion as dictated by our standards, policies and contractual obligations. Those steps included: The officer immediately being relieved of all duty. The incident has been referred to the Internal Affairs Bureau for what will be a complete and thorough investigation. As bad as the video indicates our officer’s actions were, there is a due process procedure to follow. That process is designed in the best interest of both our employees and the citizens at large. That process will be followed in this case as in all others. Anyone shown to be in violation of our rules and regulations will be help appropriately responsible as dictated by all the facts. ~Chief Dean McKimm

One e-mailer called the Canton PD and spoke to a lieutenant, whom the e-mailer described as “embarrassed” by the story and “truly remorseful.”  Some of the CPD’s commenters on the Facebook page object to the officer being essentially suspended with pay, but police get due process as well, and the union agreement with the city almost certainly has language governing that process.  It’s good to see that the Canton PD is taking this seriously.  Now, will the city drop the charges against the driver and restore his license status?

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if I knew I were being videotaped, I think I would act better. but that’s just me

kelley in virginia on July 21, 2011 at 10:09 AM

Cop needs to go.

a capella on July 21, 2011 at 10:13 AM

Now that is a cop acting stupidly.

Kafir on July 21, 2011 at 10:15 AM

Why not have special license plates available (optional) for CCW license holders? Besides letting cops know that the driver of the car may be carrying, car jackers will surely take a pass on vehicles with the CCW license plate.

WashJeff on July 21, 2011 at 10:15 AM

I am a resident of Beachwood, Ohio. Our police department is the highest paid in the state, and voters recently approved a large city income tax increase to avoid layoffs (I voted against it). The community is very liberal but the police department doesn’t have a reputation for being punkish.

I’ll write an e-mail to the police chief and the mayor complaining about this. It won’t go anywhere, but what the hell…

Outlander on July 21, 2011 at 10:17 AM

If this is the cops attitude on video, what’s it like off screen.

Kissmygrits on July 21, 2011 at 10:17 AM

Disgusting. Cop needs to be fired.

Caiwyn on July 21, 2011 at 10:17 AM

I am a resident of Beachwood, Ohio. Our police department is the highest paid in the state, and voters recently approved a large city income tax increase to avoid layoffs (I voted against it). The community is very liberal but the police department doesn’t have a reputation for being punkish.

I’ll write an e-mail to the police chief and the mayor complaining about this. It won’t go anywhere, but what the hell…

Outlander on July 21, 2011 at 10:17 AM

According to the video it says this was Canton PD, which is a far cry from Beachwood. This makes more sense occurring in Canton.

T.D.D. on July 21, 2011 at 10:19 AM

Cop needs to go.

a capella on July 21, 2011 at 10:13 AM

Thuggish behavior and embarrassing for the city. The guy doesn’t deserve anyone’s tax dollars. I wonder how he’d like those lumps…

beatcanvas on July 21, 2011 at 10:19 AM

Dude!? This cop needs to be off the streets. He gives good cops a really bad name and appears to be a bit unstable. At no point should phrases like “I’m close to caving in your head” ever come out of your mouth.

Weight of Glory on July 21, 2011 at 10:19 AM

Outlander on July 21, 2011 at 10:17 AM

Uh ed, this is Canton, not Beachwood.

Outlander on July 21, 2011 at 10:20 AM

The cop was abusing the driver verbally before he was even aware of the CCW and handgun. I realize I’m stereotyping but that attitude is way more common in LEOs than is necessary.

a capella on July 21, 2011 at 10:20 AM

god Syndrome

CynicalOptimist on July 21, 2011 at 10:20 AM

Is it me or are police from all over the country getting more and more antagonistic towards the public?

I realize there are more idiots out there but police aggression seems to be growing.

katy on July 21, 2011 at 10:21 AM

In a perfect Obama world, the cops are all our “friends” and we must immediately submit to them to protect their safety…unless we are Black.

All potential domestic terrorists are white, middle-class, and like guns; they cling to them, actually.

Isn’t that the current DHS/Obama Administration stance?

The Beachwood, Ohio cop was merely having a problem with “messaging.” That white felon (probably a potential terrorist) driving the car with a weapon had it coming, since with the cops around, there is no need for citizens to carry a gun. //

Fire the cop, if he hasn’t been fired already. No excuses, no board of review, no rehab, just fire him and make sure all police agencies in Ohio and neighboring states are made aware of his firing and the reasons for it…with video included.

coldwarrior on July 21, 2011 at 10:23 AM

Are they getting memos from the top (the progressives in power) that the term law enforcement is being redefined.

Police state is the new norm and they’re just readying the public for the transition.

katy on July 21, 2011 at 10:25 AM

Uh ed, this is Canton, not Beachwood.

Outlander on July 21, 2011 at 10:20 AM

I’ve corrected it. The website said Beachwood, but clearly the videotape says Canton.

Ed Morrissey on July 21, 2011 at 10:27 AM

Police work is the tenth most dangerous occupation in the US. Farmers, miners, fishermen, steel workers others working in more dangerous occupations don’t go off on their fellow citizens at every opportunity. They also don’t get big funerals, bag pipes and double dips.

Viator on July 21, 2011 at 10:27 AM

As long as the driver was following good practices, there was no reason for the cop to be such a jerk.

Now, in cop incidents, it takes longer for the cop’s side of the story to come out than it does for the allegedly wronged citizen’s. So let’s give this at least three days. What if this occurred after the driver led the cop on ten miles, bypassing exit after exit, before finally pulling over? Like the video I linked says, if the police have to come and get you, they are bringing an azz-kicking with them!

Sekhmet on July 21, 2011 at 10:28 AM

However, police officers are understandably sensitive about being aware of all firearms present at traffic stops, for very good reasons, most of which have to do with gravemarkers of their fellow officers who ended up getting surprised by them. It’s not for nothing that Ohio included that requirement.

Really? Any stats on the number of officers killed by a firearm from a permit holder versus the number killed by gang members, felons, meth heads wrestling with and taking the officer’s gun?

It seems to me that the requirement was put into the law as another means of harassing law abiding citizens. The message sent to me is that in Ohio it’s better to be a law breaker than to submit to sociopaths wearing a badge.

This guy needs to do some time in general population with the full knowledge that he was a cop.

TugboatPhil on July 21, 2011 at 10:29 AM

Cop needs to go.

a capella on July 21, 2011 at 10:13 AM

Cop needs to go to prison. Pour encourages les autres.

JohnGalt23 on July 21, 2011 at 10:30 AM

Man, I’d hate to see how these cops would react to a couple of kids running a lemonade stand without a permit.

pilamaye on July 21, 2011 at 10:32 AM

Katy, I think they issue is the bad police are being exposed more.

Which is good.

As for the requirement to inform — the poor guy clearly tried multiple times. The problem is the law doesn’t require the police to RECEIVE the information. In this case, they clearly had more interest in swaggering than in figuring out what was going on. They didn’t even wait for dispatch to run the plates, which would have told them the owner was licensed to carry.

For the good officers out there — take this stop apart. It looks to me like a long series of mistakes from start to finish. Searching the car when there’s someone still in it? Not even talking to the driver?

The… vehemence of their shouts for the driver to shut up as he’s trying to inform them is what gets me. Setting aside the concealed carry/requirement to inform issue, what if he had other information to tell them? They were completely uninterested, as if they believed they knew every fact of the situation the moment they saw the car.

Oh, and the prosecutor has offered to drop the charges for failing to inform — in exchange for immunizing the city against a lawsuit. The prosecutor knows this wasn’t just a bad arrest…

Crawford on July 21, 2011 at 10:33 AM

The cops in this incident should be fired, their supervisors should be fired, and all of them should be subject to, and lose, civil lawsuits for deprivation of civil rights.

CatoRenasci on July 21, 2011 at 10:33 AM

“Want me to pull mine out and stick it to your head?”

That cop needs to lose his badge. Ego trip and a half. He is unstable and just looking for reasons to hurt people. If he would have shut his mouth for two seconds without interrupting then he would have known that the driver had a gun on him. It’s sad because he makes all cops look bad.

keepinitreal on July 21, 2011 at 10:33 AM

Now that is a cop acting stupidly.

Kafir on July 21, 2011 at 10:15 AM

beer summit time!

OmahaConservative on July 21, 2011 at 10:33 AM

The cops are mad because they botched the stop. The first person they should have approached was the driver. They were so busy bullying the woman it seems they forgot there was a driver in the car. These cops should be suspended at the very least.

the_souse on July 21, 2011 at 10:34 AM

Power corrupts, policemen are not immune.

wheelgun on July 21, 2011 at 10:34 AM

This cop won’t get purged until he actually gets caught doing something very violent to an innocent party. This despite the fact that the behavior is well known to co-workers and supervisors. The PD will drag out that ancient defence of “99% of cops aren’t bad” while, strangely, rejecting the reverse, “99% of citizens aren’t criminals”.

Until police organizations start effectively purging the bad eggs, citizens have to make the assumption that they are all “bad cops” until proven otherwise.

deadman on July 21, 2011 at 10:36 AM

That M-Fer should be fired and prosecuted. I hate some of these effing cops, with their power-crazed bullsh!t.

Do your job right, a$$hole.

Jaibones on July 21, 2011 at 10:37 AM

I want to get a CCW, and it is possible now where I live.

Advice needed:

I have two candidates for carry, an HK USP Compact in 9mm and a Makarov in 9X18. Which would be the best choice? The HK is more powerful, but the Mak is slimmer. In our CCW permit system, you have to list the pistol you will be carrying, as well as qualify on it, so I have to decide soon.

pseudonominus on July 21, 2011 at 10:37 AM

I’m embarrassed for that cop and law enforcement. What was the reason for the stop? Why drive blacked out? Why was a search started in the back seat? Fired, lawsuit, black eye on the agency. Bad stop.

Static on July 21, 2011 at 10:37 AM

Sekhmet on July 21, 2011 at 10:28 AM

LEOs have aways had the luxury of writing up their own version of events which somehow always is the official narrative. I’ve always assumed they don’t tell the truth when it suits them and they look at the civilian population as something to be dominated at all times. The movement towards paramilitarism hasn’t helped.

a capella on July 21, 2011 at 10:37 AM

This is simply disgusting.

I’ve been trying to see a situation that would explain why this happened the way it did – a benefit of the doubt, sort of thing. But there is absolutely no excuse for this a$$hole telling a citizen he should have stepped back and emptied his glock into him. This cop should be immediately fired. Do not pass Go. Do not collect $200.

I appreciate the Police, but this is not correct behavior on ANY level.

tickleddragon on July 21, 2011 at 10:38 AM

Yep, cop is completely in the wrong here. You can’t berate the guy for not immediately telling you when you kept interrupting him because you were roid raging.

He’ll be lucky if the next gun owner he pulls over doesn’t just shoot him in the face to avoid the hassle and threats to his life. After seeing this tape I’d refuse to convict the gun owner.

Benaiah on July 21, 2011 at 10:38 AM

Who knew Tackleberry was still on the force!?!

MechEng5by5 on July 21, 2011 at 10:38 AM

The vast majority of concealed carriers are responsible, upstanding citizens. This cop treats him like a hardcore criminal. I have a CCL and was stopped once. I informed the officer of my license immediately and then dispatcher also told him seconds later that I had a CCL. Although I did not have a weapon on my person, I told him I had 3 in my truck. He began acting nervous and jumpy. I explained to him that I’m a local businessman, not a criminal. He finally calmed down and everything was fine.

txsurveyor on July 21, 2011 at 10:38 AM

Now, in cop incidents, it takes longer for the cop’s side of the story to come out than it does for the allegedly wronged citizen’s. So let’s give this at least three days.

This happened on June 8th. The first public discussion of it (on Ohio CCW forums) was on the 13th of July. As I said before, the prosecutor is attempting to get the victim to waive suing the city in exchange for the bogus “failure to inform” charge being dropped.

There undoubtedly is “another side” to the story, but it’s not enough to make the prosecutor think his case is stronger than the one against the police department.

What if this occurred after the driver led the cop on ten miles, bypassing exit after exit, before finally pulling over?

The car was stopped. The police pulled up behind them. There was no chase.

Did you watch the video? It starts about 20-30 seconds before the police even see the car.

Crawford on July 21, 2011 at 10:39 AM

I could see the cop going off if the person did not tell him but to not listen and proceed like this man is a criminal?!he needs to be suspended or replaced.Hope this man stands up for his rights and doesn’t back down.

ohiobabe on July 21, 2011 at 10:39 AM

Why not have special license plates available (optional) for CCW license holders? Besides letting cops know that the driver of the car may be carrying, car jackers will surely take a pass on vehicles with the CCW license plate.

WashJeff on July 21, 2011 at 10:15 AM


In Ohio, the police already know if the registered owner of the vehicle has a CHL (Concealed Handgun License) from their computer system. Secondly, I would choose not to advertise the fact that I have a CHL to car jackers etc., there are still many places where you cannot take your firearm into a store/establishment and must secure it in your vehicle. To me, this would increase the likelihood of a car jacker targeting my vehicle.

This cop should be fired and prosecuted for harassment.

jackal40 on July 21, 2011 at 10:39 AM

pseudonominus on July 21, 2011 at 10:37 AM

HK.

a capella on July 21, 2011 at 10:39 AM

That hot head cop needs to be fired. He’s going to kill someone one day that doesn’t deserve it. He is obviously too emotional to handle this job.

Why not have special license plates available (optional) for CCW license holders? Besides letting cops know that the driver of the car may be carrying, car jackers will surely take a pass on vehicles with the CCW license plate.

WashJeff on July 21, 2011 at 10:15 AM

Great idea.

jawkneemusic on July 21, 2011 at 10:40 AM

I don’t understand why the cops approached him in the first place. Why isn’t that an issue? Are cops allowed to detain you just cause?

Esthier on July 21, 2011 at 10:40 AM

Police are underpaid and face the dregs of society every day.

So why do they do it? Simple, they enjoy being the powerful man with the gun to make others submit to them.

But the usual line between righteous and politically connected citizens and riff raff is being ignored today. With immorality accepted as the rule, neither one is getting respect from the younger generation anymore.

FYI, the officer here did not go berzerk. He acted like the standard German personality type acts. What some see as out of control shouting seems only a small raising of the voice to better communicate among men with German heritage.

jimw on July 21, 2011 at 10:40 AM

Just another example of the police state we’re turning into.

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again … there are good cops and bad cops – but ALL cops are now being trained to view the public at large as “civilians” and themselves as something other. That is NOT a police force – that is a MILITARY – a military with the goal of subjugating the “civilians” it is determined to control.

How can I say this? Just look at the evidence – any THINKING law enforcement supervisor would have dismissed this case without a second look – and begged the guy arrested to forgive them for the treatment he received. That’s NOT what’s happening – the Cops (both good and bad) are backing this foul mouthed piece of human excrement in a uniform. Why do you think this man talks like this? It’s because … IT’S ACCEPTED by his department.

This is disgusting – and civil libertarians ought to be outraged.

Oh … and what was the “crime” here? Suspicion of soliciting a prostitute? Who cares? It’s a victimless crime.

HondaV65 on July 21, 2011 at 10:40 AM

I think we should also ask “what’s wrong with Ohio?”. Way to go.

bbhack on July 21, 2011 at 10:41 AM

Both cops should be arrested just like any other person that did the same thing. The prosecutor that offered to drop the charges needs to be charged with extortion.

These police officers and prosecutors need to be made an example of.

meci on July 21, 2011 at 10:42 AM

The cop was abusing the driver verbally before he was even aware of the CCW and handgun. I realize I’m stereotyping but that attitude is way more common in LEOs than is necessary.

a capella on July 21, 2011 at 10:20 AM

Hey now…I’m a LEO and I would never have behaved that way.

jawkneemusic on July 21, 2011 at 10:42 AM

I’m certainly not condoning the officers behavior here, but remember, even routine traffic stops could…and have…become fatal for many cops. You never know who’s going to have a weapon, and use it.

This is why many officers on the beat get a bit “over-heated” so to speak.

As for the passengers, when the officer says not to move…DON’T MOVE. Period.

JetBoy on July 21, 2011 at 10:43 AM

pseudonominus on July 21, 2011 at 10:37 AM

Smaller more compact is best. But the most important aspect is you must be familiar and comfortable (well practiced) with whatever you choose.

katy on July 21, 2011 at 10:43 AM

Because almost every encounter an officer has is negative, officers can develop “angry officer syndrome.” The Conceal Carry status of a law-abiding citizen seems to cause interesting reactions. Most officers seem to recognize that a citizen with CHL is usually squeaky clean since they went through an extensive background check.

In southwest TX, while photographing wildfires, I was approached by a highway patrolman who was angry from the onset. I immediately identified myself as having CHL and he angrily demanded to know where all my weapons were. I was expecting to be handcuffed since he had quite the temper. Turns out, they had closed the road long after I was already in there. He thought I had snuck in. I offered to show him timestamps on my DSLR photos to prove what time I had arrived, but he wasn’t interested in facts. In the end he told me he would escort me out of the fire area. The lack of professionalism was unwarranted. Treating a photographer as a criminal for photographing a wildfire was a bit over the top. I thought about filing a complaint, but didn’t.

I hope in this case, William files a complaint against the police officer. Obviously this officer has serious angry officer syndrome and is trying to turn a noncriminal into a criminal.

jediwebdude on July 21, 2011 at 10:44 AM

But there is absolutely no excuse for this a$$hole telling a citizen he should have stepped back and emptied his glock into him. This cop should be immediately fired. Do not pass Go. Do not collect $200.

I appreciate the Police, but this is not correct behavior on ANY level.

tickleddragon on July 21, 2011 at 10:38 AM

And after he is fired and prosecuted, he should be denied a Firearm Owner’s card and disarmed for threatening to kill a citizen, illegally. This guy is a walking time bomb.

Fuc* this sh!t.

Jaibones on July 21, 2011 at 10:44 AM

I don’t understand why the cops approached him in the first place. Why isn’t that an issue? Are cops allowed to detain you just cause?

Esthier on July 21, 2011 at 10:40 AM
/////
That was my thought also.Was there a headlight out,speeding,improper precedure etc? Thankfully,most police are levelheaded,but sadly,there are some who think we are idiotic peons.

ohiobabe on July 21, 2011 at 10:45 AM

police officers are understandably sensitive about being aware of all firearms present at traffic stops, for very good reasons, most of which have to do with gravemarkers of their fellow officers who ended up getting surprised by them. It’s not for nothing that Ohio included that requirement.

Absolute nonsense. Handgun permittees pose a far smaller threat to police officers than the general public, armed or not. As a group, permittees are more law-abiding than the general public, and more law-abiding than police officers.

Stop buying into the propaganda. People who hold handgun permits DO NOT pose a special threat to police, or anyone else. They are less likely to commit crimes, and more likely to be able to do something about crimes if progress.

I luv ya Ed, but you have to do better than this.

novaculus on July 21, 2011 at 10:47 AM

Cop needs some counselling — sounds like he’s stressed out of his mind based on his suspicion of seeing a firearm. Probably put him in fight of flight mode and he’s not handling it well when the guy tells him he has a concealed carry permit. Also seems like the area where the guy stopped is known for drug dealing and prostitution, so who knows if our concealed carry citizen was on the up-and-up as well. I would think that as part of the permit process you’d have an officer from the local police tell you how to handle it if an officer stops you; and the officers need this process as well.

EasyEight on July 21, 2011 at 10:47 AM

Giving it further thought, the only way this type of behavior is going to be stopped is not by punishing the individual cop (still should be done) because sociopaths do not respond example. Judgements against cities and police departments must increase to the point where they really bite. Politicians will take notice if there is a substantial risk of losing their toys. Having a written procedure and training should not be a defence or much of a mitigating factor, the prime question is “did the dept knowingly keep the cop on the streets”. Possible further encourgement of good behavior is requiring the judgement to be offset by a reduction of future pension payments.

deadman on July 21, 2011 at 10:47 AM

and a Makarov in 9X18.

Sell the Makarov and buy a Smith & Wesson 1911. ;)

jawkneemusic on July 21, 2011 at 10:47 AM

Who knew Tackleberry was still on the force!?!
http://www.wearysloth.com/Gallery/ActorsG/6831-15045.gif

MechEng5by5 on July 21, 2011 at 10:38 AM

No? Nothing? Not even a titter?…tough sub

MechEng5by5 on July 21, 2011 at 10:48 AM

Sekhmet on July 21, 2011 at 10:28 AM

My thought, also. Why were they stopped? What actions did the passengers play, prior to the stop?

Something’s not quite right.

OldEnglish on July 21, 2011 at 10:48 AM

I’ve been of the opinion, since my time in Detroit in early 2000s, that cops need to ditch the bad boy image, ie black police cars.

They are professionals and need to wear professional white-collar attire, such as the uniforms need to be white/light colors with ties and slacks. No more of these stupid shorts, polo or t-shirts when on patrol.

In the case of this one, make an example of him that if you abuse the citizen(s) that you’re sworn to protect & serve, you get fired, lose CCW for a period and lose the pension.

To make the point even stronger, the burden is on the cop to prove he was courteous and justify any confrontations. 3 strikes (complaints) within a year, and you’re off the beat to cool heels for 90 days with reduction in pay. 3 suspensions and you’re fired because you’re not serving the people. But situations such as the one above is cause for immediate termination.

And citizens should be able to record any interactions they have with cops.

AH_C on July 21, 2011 at 10:48 AM

As for the passengers, when the officer says not to move…DON’T MOVE. Period.

JetBoy on July 21, 2011 at 10:43 AM

Sure, Jet, but if it were me, and my only “crime” was being pulled over on the side of the road (I’d love to know that they approached this car for a legitimate reason, really), I’d expect to be treated like a human being. I’d expect to be asked to sit still. I’d expect to be asked like someone deserving their respect until they can prove I don’t.

Esthier on July 21, 2011 at 10:48 AM

Very unclear scenario – is there any reason given for the Police to even be involved? Above it is stated the “driver pulled over to allow passengers to disembark the car”

This stinks to high Heaven!

Katfish on July 21, 2011 at 10:49 AM

Fire the uncivilized dumb idiot.

antisocial on July 21, 2011 at 10:50 AM

JetBoy, have you even watched the video?

Crawford on July 21, 2011 at 10:51 AM

They are professionals and need to wear professional white-collar attire, such as the uniforms need to be white/light colors with ties and slacks. No more of these stupid shorts, polo or t-shirts when on patrol.

That’s true for the most part…cops on bicycle patrol wouldn’t be wearing shirtsleeves and ties tho. As for the light colors…usually certain ranks of officer can be denoted by the color of their shirts…For example, white would be worn by Lieutenants and above, and dark blue/black by Sergeant and lower.

JetBoy on July 21, 2011 at 10:52 AM

Before we try, convict, and execute the police, let’s give this some time to hear the cops’ side of the story.

There are robbers and rapists who pose as cops, so police are understanding if you want to get to a well-lit, populated area before pulling over if the police hit the light bar. Especially if they can see you are alone in the car. This should not be a problem.

But if the cops are seeing a car full of people, and they are bypassing numerous well-lit opportunities to pull over, the police get out of the “Routine traffic stop” mode and into the “These guys have Jimmy Hoffa in the trunk” mode.

Sekhmet on July 21, 2011 at 10:52 AM

Two of the first lines any law enforcement officer should ask are:

1. Do you have a license to carry a firearm?
2. Are you in possession of a firearm?

paulsur on July 21, 2011 at 10:53 AM

To make the point even stronger, the burden is on the cop to prove he was courteous and justify any confrontations. 3 strikes (complaints) within a year, and you’re off the beat to cool heels for 90 days with reduction in pay. 3 suspensions and you’re fired because you’re not serving the people. But situations such as the one above is cause for immediate termination.

You mean they really do work for us? That concept is making my cognitive dissonance flare up.

bbhack on July 21, 2011 at 10:54 AM

Here is the Canton PD Facebook page

http://www.facebook.com/CantonPD?ref=ts

Mike Morrissey on July 21, 2011 at 10:54 AM

I got pulled over for speeding one day as I was late getting my kids to piano lessons. While the officer was at my window, I pulled out my NH Pistol License to show him and informed him I was carrying and that I knew I wasn’t required by state law to notify him of that.

His response was pretty much, “Oh, I don’t care about that. Hell, I took one look at the stickers on the back of your truck and assumed you had guns in there.”

Then he told me he liked my stickers and gave me a warning.

Live free or die, baby!

Bruce MacMahon on July 21, 2011 at 10:55 AM

The gun thing is a non-starter…a cop (well, a *good* cop) will always assume the driver is armed on any traffic stop. The notify requirement is there as a feel good measure (or, as cynics have said, a way to harass CCW holders), nothing more.

Many states don’t have notify requirements and they seem to get along just fine.

JohnTant on July 21, 2011 at 10:55 AM

I don’t think that scenario fits the vision our founders had for us.

Speakup on July 21, 2011 at 10:55 AM

Sure, Jet, but if it were me, and my only “crime” was being pulled over on the side of the road (I’d love to know that they approached this car for a legitimate reason, really), I’d expect to be treated like a human being. I’d expect to be asked to sit still. I’d expect to be asked like someone deserving their respect until they can prove I don’t.

Esthier on July 21, 2011 at 10:48 AM

Again, I’m not condoning this officers attitude. And for sure, this is the exception rather than the rule…we never hear of routine stops…gawd knows how many hundreds across the country daily…where officers have been great.

But we don’t know what this officer was doing prior to this stop, or if he knew someone who was shot at a traffic stop recently, or what. Once again, I’m not condoning this, but there’s usually more to the story.

JetBoy on July 21, 2011 at 10:56 AM

Does anybody know just why the guy was stopped?

Is it illegal in Canton to stop your car and let somebody get out?

Narniaman on July 21, 2011 at 10:56 AM

Before we try, convict, and execute the police, let’s give this some time to hear the cops’ side of the story.

This story is well over a month old. Only the cops have been able to give their side so far.

But if the cops are seeing a car full of people, and they are bypassing numerous well-lit opportunities to pull over, the police get out of the “Routine traffic stop” mode and into the “These guys have Jimmy Hoffa in the trunk” mode.

Sekhmet on July 21, 2011 at 10:52 AM

Did you watch the video? It doesn’t start off with a police chase or the police car even seeing this car. It starts off with the police just driving for 30 seconds or so until they randomly come across this vehicle and start telling everyone to stay in the car.

This car wasn’t pulled over by a cop. It was already pulled over when the cops showed up.

Esthier on July 21, 2011 at 10:56 AM

Unionized cop.

Labamigo on July 21, 2011 at 10:57 AM

“I swear to God Mark I’m going to lose my mind if I see another one of these numbskulls.”

Something tells me this unhinged cop lost his mind way before running into the CCW guy.

Gang-of-One on July 21, 2011 at 10:57 AM

I still haven’t figured out the reason for the stop. Did they suspect prostitution…what?

Is Canton having trouble recruiting men with half a brain for the force? Those guys sound and act as if they came from some backwoods bar and pool hall.

FOWG1 on July 21, 2011 at 10:59 AM

I’m certainly not condoning the officers behavior here, but remember, even routine traffic stops could…and have…become fatal for many cops. You never know who’s going to have a weapon, and use it.

–Jetboy

Even more routine stops become fatal for innocent parties.

All SWAT teams outside of the State Police, FBI and Federal Marshals should be disbanded.
“No knock” warrants should be severely restricted. Only if there is no reasonable way to otherwise serve a warrant and only if a second level supervisor is on site. The PD is fully liable for mistaken raids.

deadman on July 21, 2011 at 10:59 AM

But we don’t know what this officer was doing prior to this stop, or if he knew someone who was shot at a traffic stop recently, or what. Once again, I’m not condoning this, but there’s usually more to the story.

JetBoy on July 21, 2011 at 10:56 AM

I really hope there’s more to the story, or that both officers are fired immediately and charged with assault.

But by that, I don’t mean some personal trouble the officer might have had earlier. If he can’t handle that, he really shouldn’t be given a gun. If this was just something as simple as, a friend of his was shot and this was his reaction, then he still needs to go.

I can be sympathetic to the dangers they face but not when they take that out on us.

Esthier on July 21, 2011 at 11:00 AM

Oh, “blacked out”? They ignored a stop sign with no lights or siren on.

Those cops seem to be a real menace to society.

FOWG1 on July 21, 2011 at 11:01 AM

So what was the original offense? Did the officers have any probable cause at all? Or did they see via the computer system that the driver had a CCA and just decided to let him have it on general principles?

And then telling the woman that she’s not allowed outside or she’ll get a beating? Are they under marshall law in Canton? Is there a posted curfew? Aren’t American citizens guaranteed the freedom to move about anymore?

JonPrichard on July 21, 2011 at 11:02 AM

Why not have special license plates available (optional) for CCW license holders? Besides letting cops know that the driver of the car may be carrying, car jackers will surely take a pass on vehicles with the CCW license plate.

WashJeff

Stupid idea. Every bad guy who saw that on a parked car would break in looking for a weapon. The primary purpose of the concealed aspect of concealed carry is so no one will know.

Sheesh…

Crusader Rabbit on July 21, 2011 at 11:02 AM

Cops are supposed to be calmn and control the situation. If they can’t do that then they need a different profession.

nobleclem on July 21, 2011 at 11:02 AM

As for the passengers, when the officer says not to move…DON’T MOVE. Period.

JetBoy on July 21, 2011 at 10:43 AM

What do you do when multiple cops are shouting conflicting orders at you, Like Don’t Move and Get Out Of The Car? Remember the CCW holder who was shot down by three cops in Colorado a while back? He was carrying a weapon legally in a WalMart or similar store, an employee saw it, notified the manager who turned it into a crisis and everyone was sent outside. When the victim told the cops he was carrying a handgun legally, one told him to remove it from the holster while another one told him to put his hands up..when he removed the gun, the trio of cops shot him down.

a capella on July 21, 2011 at 11:02 AM

I understand a cops skiddishness about this. Once they’re on duty, they don’t know if they’re going home that night, or to the morgue in a body bag.

However…they know the law, and if the law states a person(s) must verbally declare that they have a conceal carry license, then the officer needs to let them state that. The man tried, the officer refused to let him. That case will go nowhere with video evidence.

And I would think cops would be a little more logical, when you make a stop, and the person is willing to comply with the laws, rather than making a stop, and the person makes no such declaration, yet has a gun. There is a difference between law abiding citizens defending themselves when police aren’t around, and citizens using guns for illicit purposes.

capejasmine on July 21, 2011 at 11:05 AM

pseudonominus on July 21, 2011 at 10:37 AM

If you don’t know, don’t buy a gun until you do know.

You need to take a basic firearms handling and self-defense class. You need to go to a range that rents guns and find what works for you. Please do these things, or don’t buy a gun.

Unless you are willing to learn and to practice regularly, I would recommend a revolver. Semi-auto pistols require more manipulation to fire, are more prone to jamming, and in case of a mis-fire require hand cycling to chamber the next round. If you leave a semi-auto in a drawer or glove box for an extended period, the likelihood of a failure to feed jam goes up. Revolvers are pretty much point and shoot, and in case of mis-fire, you just pull the trigger again.

Personally, I think handgun design peaked in 1911.

novaculus on July 21, 2011 at 11:05 AM

Though, in theory, police are paid to take a bullet for the citizens they have sworn to protect, I strongly believe that well over half of all police offices are dangerous to law abiding citizens.

I live in Johns Creek, Ga., and since the creation of Johns Creek less than a decade ago, I now feel like I am living in a police state. Before the Johns Creek police force, we barely saw drivers pulled over by Fulton County officers for traffic violations, but now it seems that I constantly see drivers pulled over to the side of the road getting a ticket when I am out and about. And on far too many occasions I see this occurring multiple times in a very small geographic area. But hey, they are only trying to help youuuuuuuu, ya, right.

devolvingtowardsidiocracy on July 21, 2011 at 11:06 AM

If a CCW holder had made insults and threats like that he should have his permit revoked. Same with the cop, he shouldn’t be allowed on the streets with a gun and a badge, he obviously can’t handle the authority and fails in both self-control and professionalism.

Socratease on July 21, 2011 at 11:07 AM

So let’s give this at least three days. What if this occurred after the driver led the cop on ten miles, bypassing exit after exit, before finally pulling over?

Sekhmet on July 21, 2011 at 10:28 AM

If that were the case the cops would have reacted differently from the get go. You know, like having guns drawn the second they exited their cruiser, commanding those in the vehicle to show their hands, and then dragging the driver to the dirt and cuffing him, etc.

Gang-of-One on July 21, 2011 at 11:08 AM

Cops are now an apparatus of the state thanks to years of union/politician quid pro quo. Protection of political patronage and the priviledge of generous benefits trumps thier duty to the public.

They are not on your side.

Leonidas Hoplite on July 21, 2011 at 11:08 AM

This cop needs to come off the street, then their needs to be a very full investigation, then the police need to take appropriate action…if I were the driver I would sue for a violation of my civil right Sec 1983.

georgealbert on July 21, 2011 at 11:09 AM

And clearly this officer should no longer be allowed to carry a gun for a very, very long time

georgealbert on July 21, 2011 at 11:10 AM

“..This is a big responsibility and appears you can’t do that..”

Could be directed at the cop. Either this officer was having a bad hair day or he is perpetually angry. One thinks that anyone willing to say what that cop did while he knew he was being recorded is either a brick short of a load or has a serious anger problem.

I am pretty sure idly threatening to cap a detainee in the manner he did is not PPP.

The War Planner on July 21, 2011 at 11:11 AM

a capella on July 21, 2011 at 11:02 AM

It is for this reason, and for cops like the one in the video, that I have a “not asked, don’t tell” policy. I usually put my pistol in the glove box or console while driving. I DO NOT keep registration and insurance documents in the same place. I keep those docs in a plastic bag weighted with some coins in the driver’s door cubby. I DO NOT volunteer that I am armed, If the LEO asks, of course I tell the truth.

novaculus on July 21, 2011 at 11:11 AM

novaculus on July 21, 2011 at 11:05AM

I’ve been shooting since age 6.

Those are just the small pistols I have on hand now. I could get something else, but I’d rather not.

My Home Defense gun is a USP in .45, so I’m familliar with the USP maunual of arms.

pseudonominus on July 21, 2011 at 11:11 AM

The cop is acting a little crazy, he probably needs to go on a long leave or rethink his career.

Of course, I would not believe that an Ex-prostitute and an ex-cab driver were just talking on a dark alley, lol.

jeffn21 on July 21, 2011 at 11:13 AM

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