NPR pretty excited about new Voter ID laws

posted at 6:00 pm on July 18, 2011 by Jazz Shaw

NPR sets out to examine both sides of the debate regarding new voter ID laws going into effect this year around the country. And amazingly, they manage the feat after a fashion. At least to a point:

Voters going to the polls next year — and even some this year — will encounter a lot of new rules. Photo ID requirements and fewer options for early voting are among the biggest changes.

They’re part of a wave of new laws enacted by Republican-controlled legislatures this year. Supporters say the rules are needed to ensure honest elections.

But Democrats say it’s part of a concerted GOP campaign to suppress the vote. They say minorities, students, the poor and disabled — those most likely to vote Democratic — will be hurt the most.

Did you catch the second sentence of the second paragraph? The one that begins with, “supporters say…?” I sure hope so, because if you only read the story above the fold, that’s the last mention you’ll see of reasons to support such laws until you get to the final third of the article. In the intervening space, the piece swings out to Wisconsin where a spokesperson for One Wisconsin Now goes into great detail about how these laws are “obstacles” to voting by the usual class warriors and it’s all a massive plot to disenfranchise the poor… or something.

In the end, though, even NPR can’t help itself and points out that free ID cards are available to all lawful residents of legal age who wish to vote. (Though the aforementioned spokesperson jumps back in to claim that making it to the DMV to pick up the free card is still too great an obstacle for “many.”) But the highlight of the article comes by way of a quote from Tre Hargett, Tennessee secretary of state. Responding to allegations that the new requirements would “discourage voter turnout,” he responds:

“I think that nothing could disenfranchise an eligible voter more than finding out that ineligible voters are voting,” he says.

That one just may have to make it into the quotes of the day.

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a long time ago the original progressive movement supported clean voter roles as a way to create clean and ethical government.

rob verdi on July 18, 2011 at 6:02 PM

Illegal aliens and dead people exempted???

Oil Can on July 18, 2011 at 6:03 PM

Hey NPR, Students HAVE TO HAVE AN ID CARD. You can’t be a student without one.

BroncosRock on July 18, 2011 at 6:04 PM

Though the aforementioned spokesperson jumps back in to claim that making it to the DMV to pick up the free card is still too great an obstacle for “many.”

And when do people just simply start laughing at this kind of asinine logic? A person who makes the effort to vote is not going to make the effort to get a free identification card? Seriously? And what about the fact that most states already require people to carry some form of identification when out in public already?

NotCoach on July 18, 2011 at 6:07 PM

I, too, wonder why they include students. As BroncosRock says, college students already have ID cards.

Rose on July 18, 2011 at 6:08 PM

They say minorities, students, the poor and disabled — those most likely to vote Democratic — will be hurt the most.

I mean WTF?

Are the democrats saying minorities, students, the poor and disabled are idiots and can’t figure out how to get a photo ID … for free?

Are they also saying that minorities, students, the poor and disabled can’t get a drivers license, or that they don’t get loans, or buy anything on credit, or have any dealings that require them to prove who they are?

Are the democrats saying no minority, student, poor or disabled person has a photo ID of any kind?

darwin on July 18, 2011 at 6:09 PM

a long time ago the original progressive movement supported clean voter roles as a way to create clean and ethical government.

rob verdi on July 18, 2011 at 6:02 PM

Just as ‘Liberal’ meant someone rooted in the support of Liberty.

A short perusal of the Oppressive and so-called Liberal agenda will quickly disabuse anyone of that notion.

Chip on July 18, 2011 at 6:10 PM

Illegal aliens and dead people exempted???

Oil Can on July 18, 2011 at 6:03 PM

It’s just not fair. It’s very hard to fill out ID applications when you have six feet of dirt on top of you.

RBMN on July 18, 2011 at 6:10 PM

I was astounded when I moved to California that photo IDs were not required to vote in each election.

Photo ID isn’t even required when one registers to vote for the first time in California.

A photo ID requirement would really help to reduce voter fraud.

wren on July 18, 2011 at 6:12 PM

Disabled, poor, students, and minorities don’t have any form of identification? Right. Let’s start with disabled, they require treatment for their disability so they have no form of ID? Right.Poor. okay this one is really easy. The poor are enrolled in numerous “programs” that require ID to get their food stamps, checks, etc.Students? As mentioned above students are required to have ID while enrolled in College,. Minorities? See above.

sandee on July 18, 2011 at 6:13 PM

“I think that nothing could disenfranchise an eligible voter more than finding out that ineligible voters are voting,” he says.

+7%…!

Seven Percent Solution on July 18, 2011 at 6:14 PM

They say minorities illegal aliens, students the dead, the poor and disabled the multiple voters — those most likely guaranteed to vote Democratic — will be hurt the most.

Edited for accuracy.

Vashta.Nerada on July 18, 2011 at 6:15 PM

Don’t the poor need ID’s to cash welfare checks, and the disabled need ID’s to get any entitlements or nifty placecards that allow them to part near the entrance of any business? To be clear, I have no issues with handicap parking, I’m thankful I don’t need it.

Hog Wild on July 18, 2011 at 6:15 PM

They say minorities, students, the poor and disabled the deceased, the fictitious, and non-citizens — those most likely to vote Democratic — will be hurt the most.

Fixed.

malclave on July 18, 2011 at 6:15 PM

But Democrats say it’s part of a concerted GOP campaign to suppress the vote. They say minorities, students, the poor and disabled — those most likely to vote Democratic — will be hurt the most.

Of course they will be Democrats – those are the dumb idiots that voted for President Pull-Ups. Too stupid to carry a simple ID even those it’s required for their welfare checks, driver’s license, passport, motel registration, getting on an airplane, bank account and applying for credit cards. Those damn raciiiiissssssssstttt Republicans!

katablog.com on July 18, 2011 at 6:16 PM

You know what? We need to call a spade a spade. The so called voting rights groups are not interested in the welfare of those they claim to champion. They are only interested in collecting their votes. The homeless don’t vote because most are mentally ill. So round them up with no voter ID required and make them check the box for their preferred candidate.

The elderly? They are easy to fool. Run around to nursing homes and do the same thing! And our media continues to carry water for these vile people? Are all MSM journalists soulless monsters?

NotCoach on July 18, 2011 at 6:16 PM

malclave on July 18, 2011 at 6:15 PM PURRRRFECT

katablog.com on July 18, 2011 at 6:17 PM

Are the democrats saying no minority, student, poor or disabled person has a photo ID of any kind?

darwin on July 18, 2011 at 6:09 PM

Of course they’re not saying that. They’re just concerned that ID requirements will mean that those people will only be able to vote one time, and in one place, per election.

So unfair…

landshark on July 18, 2011 at 6:17 PM

I’ll declare this an accomplishment if we get through an election with the new rules in place. Typically what the progs do is wait until a month before an election, then find a friendly judge like the hack Sumi in Wisconsin, get a hold put on the new law with (surprise) a trial date a month after the election.

Rinse and repeat.

slickwillie2001 on July 18, 2011 at 6:17 PM

Remember that lady a few years ago that was pushing against voter ID laws, and it turned out she was voting in Both IL and FL elections?

lorien1973 on July 18, 2011 at 6:19 PM

But Democrats say it’s part of a concerted GOP campaign to suppress the vote. They say minorities, students, the poor and disabled — those most likely to vote Democratic — will be hurt the most.

They are pretty good about finding government hand outs and wellfare.

Oil Can on July 18, 2011 at 6:19 PM

ID cards are not free in my state.
http://www.dmv.com/sc/south-carolina/apply-id-card

fastestslug on July 18, 2011 at 6:20 PM

Long, long overdue.

However, would it work in California where non-citizens have so polluted the voter rolls that the ‘rats are the permanent ‘party-in-power’?

It’s gonna take a lotta stones to clean up this mess.

Like a law at the Federal level.

CPT. Charles on July 18, 2011 at 6:20 PM

Student IDs can’t be used to vote, because the school is not a state agency. Just thought I’d clear that up.

I have worked the past couple of state and local elections as alternate election judge. If someone walked up to my poll with a voter registration card that said they were “Rosa Gonzalez,” and they looked reasonably like a Rosa Gonzalez, they got to vote. How am I to know that the real Rosa Gonzalez died three weeks ago, and a corrupt elections official got a copy of her card to the local day labor center?

Sekhmet on July 18, 2011 at 6:21 PM

Doug Chapin, an election expert with the Humphrey School of Public Affairs at the University of Minnesota, says one problem with the current debate is that there’s little data to back up either side.

Chapin says there’s not only no evidence of widespread fraud,

I noticed that the article has the standard Dim claim about there being “no evidence of voter fraud” to justify the ID requirement.

Oddly enough, the article fails to mention the study of voter rolls done in Colorado last year, which found more than 15,000 illegal aliens registered to vote there, of whom more than 5,000 had actually voted in the 2010 elections.

But we don’t need to require people to provide proof of U.S. citizenship when they register to vote, right Professor Chapin? We should just trust them not to check the little box that asks “Are you a U.S. citizen?” if they’re actually foreigners living in the U.S. illegally. After all, the one thing we know about the millions of illegal aliens living in this country is that they totally respect and comply with our laws, and would never lie to us just to get some privilege they’re not legally entitled to, right Professor?

AZCoyote on July 18, 2011 at 6:22 PM

Are the democrats saying minorities, students, the poor and disabled are idiots and can’t figure out how to get a photo ID … for free?

Yes.

Occasionally Democrats let their mask slip.

Crawford on July 18, 2011 at 6:26 PM

The poor all have ID. They are asked for it every day. Just ask some for their ID and see how many can’t produce any. I’d be surprised if you found one out of 40 within any.

Fred 2 on July 18, 2011 at 6:26 PM

“I think that nothing could disenfranchise an eligible voter more than finding out that ineligible voters are voting DEMOCRAT,” he says.

FIFY…

It’s bad enough the “press” is in the tank for the Democrats, illegal aliens and other voter fraud just compounds the issue…

It’s NOT “Jim Crow” to show ID to get on an airplane, drive a car or cash a check… This is truly a strawman for the left (Bill Clinton) to keep everybody on the PLANTATION…

Khun Joe on July 18, 2011 at 6:26 PM

Though the aforementioned spokesperson jumps back in to claim that making it to the DMV to pick up the free card is still too great an obstacle for “many.”

But they can get to the polling station w/no problem? Hmm.

This is like the old anti-seatbelt-wearing mantra of: “What if I am hurt so bad in an accident that I can’t get my seatbelt off?”

To which I always reply: “If you are hurt that bad, how will you even get the door open?”

BierManVA on July 18, 2011 at 6:27 PM

If there is any place the government must demand ID it should be the voting booth. Hell you can’t do much without a picture ID in this world any way so if you’re too lazy to get one than don’t vote.

tim c on July 18, 2011 at 6:28 PM

Remember that lady a few years ago that was pushing against voter ID laws, and it turned out she was voting in Both IL and FL elections?

It was Indiana, and she was the person the Democrats used to sue to break the voter ID law.

Illinois, as far as I know, has no laws discouraging vote fraud. Or, if they do, they’re only applied to down-state Republicans.

Crawford on July 18, 2011 at 6:28 PM

Give “free” cards to everyone. Take the cost out of their “Steak Stamp” I mean Food Stamp cards.

CW on July 18, 2011 at 6:28 PM

The poor all have ID. They are asked for it every day. Just ask some for their ID and see how many can’t produce any. I’d be surprised if you found one out of 40 within any.

Fred 2 on July 18, 2011 at 6:26 PM

Wanna try that again Grace?

CW on July 18, 2011 at 6:29 PM

AZCoyote on July 18, 2011 at 6:22 PM

A complaint would have to be made of voter fraud. As I illustrated above, you don’t know it’s fraud if you don’t have a means of verifying the voter’s actual identity. Any fool can walk in with a voter registration card from a dead person, and if they plausibly look to be the right age, sex, and presumed nationality, they won’t be questioned.

Sekhmet on July 18, 2011 at 6:30 PM

BroncosRock on July 18, 2011 at 6:04 PM

But are students residents, and thus eligible to vote?

Student IDs don’t commonly have addresses – the kids move around too much.

But that’s the rub – these folks want students, eligible or not, to vote since they tend to vote Democrat. So projection is not just a river in Egypt.

Now ask these folks rending their garments over “disenfranchisement” about how shabbily military absentee ballots are treated. They don’t care about that – they vote Republican.

JeffWeimer on July 18, 2011 at 6:30 PM

But Democrats say it’s part of a concerted GOP campaign to suppress the vote. They say dead people, pets, cartoon characters and community organizers — those most likely to vote Democratic — will be hurt the most.

Fixed for accuracy.

Southernblogger on July 18, 2011 at 6:30 PM

“But Democrats say it’s part of a concerted GOP campaign to suppress the vote. They say minorities, students, the poor and disabled — those most likely to vote Democratic — will be hurt the most.”

Translation = DREAM Act supporters, Illegals, uninformed college students, welfare recipients… “Those most likely to vote Democratic” says it all.

RDE2010 on July 18, 2011 at 6:32 PM

This is like the old anti-seatbelt-wearing mantra of: “What if I am hurt so bad in an accident that I can’t get my seatbelt off?”

To which I always reply: “If you are hurt that bad, how will you even get the door open?”

BierManVA on July 18, 2011 at 6:27 PM

What if it’s nobodies fing business if I wear a seat belt or not?

A better analogy is to point out we all must obey the laws of the road in order to not kill others. I don’t mean seatbelt laws. Seatbelt laws do not prevent accidents. But ID to vote just might prevent fraud.

NotCoach on July 18, 2011 at 6:32 PM

fastestslug on July 18, 2011 at 6:20 PM

OMG, five bucks! Just remove all verification then!

JeffWeimer on July 18, 2011 at 6:33 PM

…it’s part of a concerted GOP campaign to suppress the vote.

There’s no doubt about that. The brown shirt GOP thugs are definitely trying to suppress the vote of…

Dead people.
Citizens of other countries.
People who are residents of a state other than the one where they’re voting.
People who like to vote more than one time.
People who live at addresses that don’t exist.

SlaveDog on July 18, 2011 at 6:34 PM

Plenty of legal and illegal aliens get student cards too. Student cards should not be acceptable for voting.

slickwillie2001 on July 18, 2011 at 6:36 PM

They already have organizations promoting and assisting voter registration(ACORN). Would it be that difficult with assisting with obtaining an ID? If it’s all legitimate, the process should be easy.

mikewor on July 18, 2011 at 6:37 PM

Hmm, libs pretty excited by voter cards when few would have accepted the idea but for the massive invasion of illegal aliens that liberals fought to create magnets to bring here and then stifled all efforts to remove them.

Speakup on July 18, 2011 at 6:37 PM

ID cards are not free in my state.
http://www.dmv.com/sc/south-carolina/apply-id-card

fastestslug on July 18, 2011 at 6:20 PM

But it’s only $5.00 for the card for five years.

slickwillie2001 on July 18, 2011 at 6:38 PM

But Democrats say it’s part of a concerted GOP campaign to suppress the vote. They say minorities, students, the poor and disabled — those most likely to vote Democratic — will be hurt the most.

Funny, all those “obstacles”, yet these same folks somehow manage to find the voting booth every two years.

GarandFan on July 18, 2011 at 6:39 PM

Somehow I bet political groups will make sure anyone that wants the proper ID will get the proper ID.

CW on July 18, 2011 at 6:43 PM

Sekhmet on July 18, 2011 at 6:30 PM

Yes, I agree with your point about the difficulty of proving voter fraud.

I was just noting that even in a situation where voter fraud has been proven, the Dims (and the media, as evidenced by this article) just ignore it and keep chanting the “there is no evidence of voter fraud” talking point.

AZCoyote on July 18, 2011 at 6:46 PM

I think voter ID cards should have the usual info of a person; name and adress and their picture, and their signature, then also should show their congressional district and their voting precint. Show up to vote and you sign in and the signatures must match and you match the photo on your ID card.

And if you didn’t register to vote and get an ID card because you moved, sucks to be you.

Mirimichi on July 18, 2011 at 6:49 PM

My wife, a Democrat and a South American with the attendant accent, was naturalized several years ago. I’ve argued with her that there is rampant voter fraud in the Latino community, a contention which she disputed until I pointed out to her that she registered to vote after her naturalization and no one asked for any proof of citizenship. And this was in rural Ohio.

AcidReflux on July 18, 2011 at 6:51 PM

If this is going to ‘hurt’ people because its too hard for them to get an ID card (ie, going to the DMV) then maybe these people shouldn’t be voting anyways.

And yes, if you’re disabled, i’m sure you could make an exception, but even disabled people are able to get ID cards.

RedbonePro on July 18, 2011 at 6:54 PM

Plenty of legal and illegal aliens get student cards too. Student cards should not be acceptable for voting.

slickwillie2001 on July 18, 2011 at 6:36 PM

Good Question: “How strong is the ID”?

Is my old blockbuster card going to OK? Plus will the people at the voting both know how to check it? And what if you vote abstentee?

Oil Can on July 18, 2011 at 6:55 PM

I took my daughter, a few weeks back, to get her learners permit. Two Hispanic women were there. Both spoke english very well. They were there to register to vote. When it was their turn, they were asked for proof of residency. Something we’ve all had to do here, to register to vote. Even an electric bill would be enough. But they had nothing. Not one thing, and just walked away discouraged.

Now I have to wonder. Were they just trying to scam, or what? I don’t like to think so…but you just never know anymore. There is so much crap out there.

capejasmine on July 18, 2011 at 7:12 PM

You know what? We need to call a spade a spade

Raaaaacist!

The Monster on July 18, 2011 at 7:21 PM

Sekhmet on July 18, 2011 at 6:30 PM
A photo ID would solve that. You need one to buy alcohol, but not to vote? How do the “poor” get their alcohol if they don’t have one?

chewmeister on July 18, 2011 at 7:24 PM

the opposition to voter id tells you everything you need to know about “progressive” ethics.

Nobody with an ounce of honesty can contend that getting a driver’s licens or other form of picture I.D. is hard or onerous. You need a picture ID to fly, bank, rent movies, get a library card, buy alcohol, rent a car, cash a check, be employed (the I-9 form requires one form of picture I.D.), buy tobacco products, obtain gov’t entitlements and whole slew of other things. the idea that there are even a few hundred eligible voters (i.e. non felon citizens) running around without some form of gov’t photo i.d. is utterly ridiculous. They claim that “poor people” don’t have it. Really? You are telling me that there are poor people who obtain NO gov’t entitlements, don’t ever drive, buy alcohol, tobacco, or engage in any other thing that would require a photo i.d.?

Please. That is so dishonest it demonstrates the true agenda – vote fraud. There can be no other reason to oppose an i.d. requirement. Any liberal who says otherwise is not honest in any way,.

Monkeytoe on July 18, 2011 at 7:24 PM

Monkeytoe on July 18, 2011 at 7:24 PM
What he said.

chewmeister on July 18, 2011 at 7:27 PM

But military absentee ballots get fed into a shredder, and that isn’t voter disenfranchisement.

Are the democrats saying minorities, students, the poor and disabled are idiots and can’t figure out how to get a photo ID … for free?darwin on July 18, 2011 at 6:09 PM

Yep. That’s SOP for the Democrat party. Identify a group of people, bestow upon them victim status that requires that they be ‘protected’ and the Democrat party are the only people who can take care of them because they are too (fill in the blank) to do it themselves. Of course, it takes a whole lot of money to offer such ‘protection’, and with the huge amounts we’re dealing with these days, who’s going to miss millions that wind up in pet projects and personal bank accounts? Of course those being ‘protected’ aren’t really helped at all, but it’s the intentions that count, not results.

Left Coast Right Mind on July 18, 2011 at 7:31 PM

Minorities and students need a photo ID to buy beer…just think of what a huge imposition that must be to use that same photo ID to vote.

Has anyone run that stats on how many Republican voters, and other voters who are not-Democrats, have been involved in massive voter fraud over the past couple decades?

coldwarrior on July 18, 2011 at 7:36 PM

I rented a rug steamer last week from the grocery store. I need 2 pieces of ID AND a credit. And yet libtards think asking for 1 piece of ID when voting is racist.

angryed on July 18, 2011 at 7:36 PM

Does One Wisconsin Now want this oneness for everyone in Wisconsin are just for Democrats?

docflash on July 18, 2011 at 7:36 PM

Hey NPR, Students HAVE TO HAVE AN ID CARD. You can’t be a student without one.

BroncosRock on July 18, 2011 at 6:04 PM

And minorities and poor people usually have ID too. The problem for dems is that people will not be able to claim false names and vote many many times.

clnurnberg on July 18, 2011 at 7:37 PM

Hey NPR, Students HAVE TO HAVE AN ID CARD. You can’t be a student without one.

BroncosRock on July 18, 2011 at 6:04 PM

Presumably you can’t get one without dragging your sorry buttocks to a school, and that can be very difficult.

disa on July 18, 2011 at 7:56 PM

In the intervening space, the piece swings out to Wisconsin where a spokesperson for One Wisconsin Now goes into great detail about how these laws are “obstacles” to voting by the usual class warriors and it’s all a massive plot to disenfranchise the poor… or something.

Wait, so you guys deny that these laws are part of a plot to disenfranchise the poor/minorities? What exactly are they for then?

crr6 on July 18, 2011 at 7:58 PM

And when do people just simply start laughing at this kind of asinine logic? A person who makes the effort to vote is not going to make the effort to get a free identification card pay a small poll tax or pass a simple literacy test? Seriously?
NotCoach on July 18, 2011 at 6:07 PM

heh.

crr6 on July 18, 2011 at 8:00 PM

To the useful idiots, or just plain dhimocraptic-socialist frauds who claim that there is little or no evidence of voter fraud, they are deliberately lying. There is plenty of evidence of voter fraud. We see it every election. However, for these agenda driven liars information, voter fraud is seldomly prosecuted or charged. Who is going to prosecute the multiple ballot street bum? No prosecutions means no fraud to these liars.

Old Country Boy on July 18, 2011 at 8:03 PM

You have a choice — you can either provide a strong identification system capable of preventing voter fraud, or you can just allow anyone to walk up and vote.

As for cost — the concept of a “poll tax” — any amount of money paid for the right to vote — has long been put to rest here in the United States, given our long use of said taxes to deny the right to vote to the poor. If we agree that strong identification is necessary when voting, then we must be prepared to not tie the costs of said identification to the voter.

unclesmrgol on July 18, 2011 at 8:08 PM

heh.

crr6 on July 18, 2011 at 8:00 PM

What poll tax or literacy test? Are you saying it is unconstitutional for states to require state issued photo identification? Which most, if not all states do already by the way. Do you have anything constructive to add or are you just going to be childish? Please explain to us how the vast majority of poor, disabled or students do not already have state issued photo IDs.

Furthermore, there is absolutely nothing unconstitutional in requriing ALL citizens to meet a minimum requirement to vote. Poll taxes and literacy tests were discriminatory. Proof of citizenship is not.

NotCoach on July 18, 2011 at 8:08 PM

Wait, so you guys deny that these laws are part of a plot to disenfranchise the poor/minorities? What exactly are they for then?

crr6 on July 18, 2011 at 7:58 PM

To stop voter fraud. No one is going to be denied the right to vote. In my state I must register to vote to be able to vote. This is not onerous or discriminatory in the least. It is an attempt to stop fraudulent voting.

NotCoach on July 18, 2011 at 8:11 PM

crr6 – our local useful idiot. There is nothing racial about voter identification if it is applied across the board. However, in your case, I don’t think you could pass a literacy test. I know I am an old country hick, but I see nothing wrong with restricting voting to tax payers and veterans.

We used to require property ownership to vote on bond elections to be paid with property taxes. The socialist
A-Os like Crr6 thought that everyone should be allowed to vote on anything, because the act of paying rent was eventually paying taxes. (The counter arguement to this is that if the taxes are not paid, the revenuers come after the owner, not the renter)

Old Country Boy on July 18, 2011 at 8:12 PM

To stop voter fraud.

NotCoach on July 18, 2011 at 8:11 PM

haha. Come on, admit it. You burst out laughing after you wrote that.

crr6 on July 18, 2011 at 8:12 PM

I know I am an old country hick, but I see nothing wrong with restricting voting to tax payers and veterans.

Old Country Boy on July 18, 2011 at 8:12 PM

I love this issue, because the more you guys talk about it the more you undermine your own arguments.

crr6 on July 18, 2011 at 8:14 PM

haha. Come on, admit it. You burst out laughing after you wrote that.

crr6 on July 18, 2011 at 8:12 PM

May I never need a court appointed attorney and be so unlucky as to draw you.

NotCoach on July 18, 2011 at 8:15 PM

Wait, so you guys deny that these laws are part of a plot to disenfranchise the poor/minorities? What exactly are they for then?

crr6 on July 18, 2011 at 7:58 PM

To ensure that the person is legally entitled to cast a ballot.

malclave on July 18, 2011 at 8:16 PM

What poll tax or literacy test?

haha, come on now. Quit playing dumb. This is just the latest in a long line of laws (always sold as “anti-fraud” or “anti-corruption” devices) which are designed to disenfranchise people of color or the poor. The exact same arguments you’re making now for a voter ID requirement were made for poll taxes and literacy tests.

Please explain to us how the vast majority of poor, disabled or students do not already have state issued photo IDs.

Who said anything about the “vast majority”? Is that how you determine whether a law is valid? If it doesn’t disenfranchise the “vast majority” of the poor?

At any rate, 20 million Americans of voting age don’t have a govt-issued ID. Why do you want to disenfranchise them to attempt to solve a problem which doesn’t exist?

crr6 on July 18, 2011 at 8:22 PM

A death certificate isn’t enough to stop illegal voting so maybe Voter ID laws will franchise the vote of the living.

chickasaw42 on July 18, 2011 at 8:22 PM

To ensure that the person is legally entitled to cast a ballot.

malclave on July 18, 2011 at 8:16 PM

bwhahaaha.

crr6 on July 18, 2011 at 8:23 PM

bwhahaaha.

crr6 on July 18, 2011 at 8:23 PM

Yeah, I knew you’d find that funny… liberals always seem to think laws are jokes. It’s why left-wing lawyers are seemingly primarily trained in how to exploit the law and screw over honest people.

malclave on July 18, 2011 at 8:26 PM

At any rate, 20 million Americans of voting age don’t have a govt-issued ID. Why do you want to disenfranchise them to attempt to solve a problem which doesn’t exist?

crr6 on July 18, 2011 at 8:22 PM

How many of those 20 million registered to vote?

And evidence, please. Your word is certainly NOT good enough.

malclave on July 18, 2011 at 8:27 PM

At any rate, 20 million Americans of voting age don’t have a govt-issued ID. Why do you want to disenfranchise them to attempt to solve a problem which doesn’t exist?

crr6 on July 18, 2011 at 8:22 PM

They don’t vote. Or do you not realize that 40% of the voting age public does not vote in presidential election years? I guarantee you that anyone who has not gone through the effort of obtaining an ID does not go through the effort of voting. Besides that, I don’t trust your number. It sounds just like the inflated numbers used to claim how many are uninsured in the US.

NotCoach on July 18, 2011 at 8:28 PM

And evidence, please. Your word is certainly NOT good enough.

malclave on July 18, 2011 at 8:27 PM

I got that figure from the 2001 National Commission on Federal Election Reform, which found that 6 to 10 percent of voting-age Americans have no driver’s license or state-issued non-driver’s photo identification card. The number may well be higher than 20 million now.

crr6 on July 18, 2011 at 8:31 PM

malclave on July 18, 2011 at 8:27 PM

And one must wonder how many of this number are illegals as well. Distinctions are superfluous when one is trying to “save” the world.

NotCoach on July 18, 2011 at 8:32 PM

They don’t vote.

Even assuming you’re correct, what kind of bizarre logic is that? Should we disenfranchise people because they’ve chosen not to vote in the past?

Like I said, this issue is fun, because it only takes one or two back and forths before you guys start making absolutely hilarious arguments.

I guarantee you that anyone who has not gone through the effort of obtaining an ID paying a small tax or learning how to read does not go through the effort of voting.

Yikes, you walked right into that one, didn’t you?

crr6 on July 18, 2011 at 8:35 PM

crr6 on July 18, 2011 at 8:31 PM

You didn’t answer the question… how many of those 20 million are registered to vote?

I’ll need to do a search for your reference, to see if it says what you claim it does.

malclave on July 18, 2011 at 8:41 PM

crr6 on July 18, 2011 at 8:35 PM

Bizarre logic my ass. A person dertimined to vote in the future is going to register to vote. Voila, state issued photo ID when they register. I did not know there were courses in law schools that taught how to think uncritically.

Yikes, you walked right into that one, didn’t you?

Only within your own delusional pea brain.

NotCoach on July 18, 2011 at 8:42 PM

I’ve always wondered how homeless people vote. Don’t you need to have a place to live to know what district you live in?

jeffn21 on July 18, 2011 at 8:54 PM

Like I said above, without ID, there is no way for election workers to tell if the person showing the voter registration card is actually the eligible voter, and not an ineligible voter using a fraudulently-obtained voter registration card.

Fraudulently-obtained voter registration cards are probably only good for one election, as they are pulled from voters thiiis close to being purged from the rolls (just to be sure the actual voter doesn’t show up). Not worth making a matching fake photo ID for them.

If said poor person drives a car, possessing a driver’s license is part of the privilege of driving on the state’s roads. Said poor person also cannot buy alcohol, tobacco, or even spray paint, prescription painkillers, and certain cold medicines without showing state-issued ID to the salesperson. So unless said eligible voter doesn’t drive, drink, smoke, get colds, or break bones—odds are s/he has some form of ID. So why not show it at the polls?

Sekhmet on July 18, 2011 at 9:06 PM

I got that figure from the 2001 National Commission on Federal Election Reform, which found that 6 to 10 percent of voting-age Americans have no driver’s license or state-issued non-driver’s photo identification card. The number may well be higher than 20 million now.

crr6 on July 18, 2011 at 8:31 PM

1. Did they exclude illegals adequately from those numbers? The initial numbers of the uninsuuuuured we were given didn’t exclude illegals. Why would liberals start excluding them now?

2. What percentage of that 6-10 percent just turned 18, and will likely acquire such ID within the year?

3. What percentage are felons or mentally incompetent? Dementia runs in my family. I hope my sons have the sense to keep me from voting if my mind starts going.

Sekhmet on July 18, 2011 at 9:15 PM

I got that figure from the 2001 National Commission on Federal Election Reform, which found that 6 to 10 percent of voting-age Americans have no driver’s license or state-issued non-driver’s photo identification card.

crr6 on July 18, 2011 at 8:31 PM

Found the report at http://web1.millercenter.org/commissions/comm_2001.pdf

It did not “find” what you stated. I think what you’re referring to is the statement (p.38 of the pdf) “A small percentage of adults, perhaps 5 to 7%, do not possess a driver’s license or other photo identification.

It’s pretty obvious that you’re just grabbing onto left-wing talking points (and inflating numbers) and repeating them here. Now, that might work at other sites, but do you really expect your dishonesty to go unchallenged on a right-of-center blog?

malclave on July 18, 2011 at 9:18 PM


Are the democrats saying minorities, students, the poor and disabled are idiots and can’t figure out how to get a photo ID … for free?

Of course they are. Dontca know that these people don’t even know how to use toilet paper unless there’s a democrat video accompanying the enabler?

Twana on July 18, 2011 at 9:26 PM

It’s pretty obvious that you’re just grabbing onto left-wing talking points (and inflating numbers) and repeating them here. Now, that might work at other sites, but do you really expect your dishonesty to go unchallenged on a right-of-center blog?

malclave on July 18, 2011 at 9:18 PM

Malcave,

You’re right that the number I provided appears to be inaccurate. It’s too low. See here.

As many as 11 percent of United States citizens – more than 21 million individuals – do not have government-issued photo identification. Eleven percent of the American citizens surveyed responded that they do not have current, unexpired government-issued identification with a photograph, such as a driver’s license or military Using 2000 census calculations of the citizen voting-age population, this translates to more than 21 million American adult citizens nationwide who do not possess valid government photo ID.

That number is likely higher now, given that 2000 census data was used for the 21 million figure.

crr6 on July 18, 2011 at 9:29 PM

crr6 on July 18, 2011 at 9:29 PM

Of course, the study that your report links to is a dead link, so there’s now way to check your claim.

Even if accurate, you still haven’t answered… how many of those are registered to vote? It’s not disenfranchisement if the person is not eligible to vote otherwise.

malclave on July 18, 2011 at 9:43 PM

Of course, the study that your report links to is a dead link, so there’s now way to check your claim.

Woops, wrong link. Here ya go.

Even if accurate, you still haven’t answered… how many of those are registered to vote? It’s not disenfranchisement if the person is not eligible to vote otherwise.

malclave on July 18, 2011 at 9:43 PM

What are you getting at? Not registered to vote does not mean “not eligible to vote otherwise.”

crr6 on July 18, 2011 at 9:47 PM

(Though the aforementioned spokesperson jumps back in to claim that making it to the DMV to pick up the free card is still too great an obstacle for “many.”)

Absolute non-starter argument for me. My grandma is 83 years old, she’s never driven a car in her life (like, ever), has severe arthritis (as in, wheelchair-bound when going anywhere outside the flat she lives in with my parents) and she always finds a way to make it to the DMV to get her ID.

Always.

englishqueen01 on July 18, 2011 at 9:55 PM

crr6 on July 18, 2011 at 9:47 PM

Thanks for the link… looks like that’s the document cited in your previous link, but they moved it. I’ll accept that number.

As far as “what am I getting at”… you’re saying that a person does not need to be registered to vote in order to vote? I’m sure that would make it even easier for ACORN and their ilk to cast ballots.

malclave on July 18, 2011 at 9:55 PM

I got that figure from the 2001 National Commission on Federal Election Reform, which found that 6 to 10 percent of voting-age Americans have no driver’s license or state-issued non-driver’s photo identification card. The number may well be higher than 20 million now.

crr6 on July 18, 2011 at 8:31 PM

So, how do they eat?

BobMbx on July 18, 2011 at 10:00 PM

Democrat is another way of saying fraud.

IlikedAUH2O on July 18, 2011 at 10:25 PM

Of the voting-age adults without ID, why don’t they have ID?

If DWI convictions or other felonies keep someone from renewing a drivers’ license, that person is a felon, and ineligible to vote. So it doesn’t matter if they have no ID

An Alzheimer’s patient would count as an adult without a current form of state-issued ID. So would a resident of a state MHMR institution. Neither would be mentally competent to vote.

A resident in the state’s penitentiary is very likely to have his or her state-issued ID expire while in prison. Again, this person is a felon and cannot vote in most states.

An illegal alien is also unlikely to have a driver’s license or state-issued ID. An illegal is not a US citizen, so it doesn’t matter.

Many teens who don’t drive at 16 wait until they are 18 to get a license or ID, just to be sure the insurance company doesn’t bend Mom and Dad over. If they don’t get the license on their birthdays, they’d fall under this statistic too.

So tell me, where are the millions and millions of over-18 mentally competent non felons who are so poor and helpless they can’t get a simple ID?

Sekhmet on July 18, 2011 at 10:27 PM

Interesting point from WSJ editor James Taranto on this weekend’s JER:

TARANTO: Right. But keep in mind, Jim Crow was not just about voting. It was a system about total segregation. Plessy v. Ferguson, the notorious case about held separate but equal, involved segregated trains. You mentioned in the opening, you need to show an I.D. to ride on Amtrak, OK? No one has said this is discriminatory. This is how you know this is bunk. No one has ever said that requiring I.D. is racially discriminatory in any context other than voting.

KS Rex on July 18, 2011 at 10:42 PM

You mentioned in the opening, you need to show an I.D. to ride on Amtrak, OK? No one has said this is discriminatory. This is how you know this is bunk. No one has ever said that requiring I.D. is racially discriminatory in any context other than voting.
KS Rex on July 18, 2011 at 10:42 PM

“You need to pay a fee to ride on Amtrak, ok? No one has said this is discriminatory. This is how you know this is bunk. No one has ever said paying a fee is racially discriminatory in any context other than voting.”

crr6 on July 18, 2011 at 10:46 PM

crr6,

Showing an ID one should already possess is nowhere equivalent to a poll tax. The ID is needed for a whole host of transactions a mentally-competent non-felon can expect to perform. A poll tax was enacted simply as an extra hoop for African-American voters to jump through. It had nothing to do with a legitimate prevention of voter fraud.

If that same poor jelly who is too poor and pathetic to get a state-issued ID wanted to paint a chest of drawers or treat his or her cold, the clerk will want to see ID and scan it. If Poor Jelly witnessed a crime, the police would want to see ID to be sure they can find Jelly later in case further questioning or testimony is needed. If Jelly drives, Jelly needs a drivers’ license. Driving is a privilege, not a right.

Sekhmet on July 18, 2011 at 11:17 PM

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