Q-poll: GOP will get blame if debt ceiling not raised

posted at 10:13 am on July 14, 2011 by Ed Morrissey

Most analysts reviewing the latest Quinnipiac poll have focused on the fact that while Barack Obama remains seriously underwater on the economy, voters appear to trust him more than either party in Congress.  The bigger takeaway, though, might be how voters see the potential outcomes of the debate over the debt ceiling.  The Q-poll shows that Obama is, at least for now, edging out the GOP in casting the terms of the debate:

The president gets a 47 – 46 percent job approval rating, unchanged from the June 9 survey by the independent Quinnipiac (KWIN-uh-pe-ack) University. That tops a 64 – 28 percent disapproval for Democrats in Congress and a 65 – 26 percent disapproval for Republicans. Obama outscores congressional Republicans on several points in the deficit reduction battle:

  • Voters will blame Republicans over Obama 48 – 34 percent if the debt limit is not raised;
  • Voters say 67 – 25 percent that an agreement to raise the debt ceiling should include tax hikes for the wealthy and corporations, not just spending cuts;
  • Voters say 45 – 37 percent that Obama’s proposals to raise revenues are “closing loopholes,” rather than “tax hikes”;
  • But voters say 57 – 30 percent that Obama’s proposals will impact the middle class, not just the wealthy.

“The American people aren’t very happy about their leaders, but President Barack Obama is viewed as the best of the worst, especially when it comes to the economy,” said Peter A. Brown, assistant director of the Quinnipiac University Polling institute.

Obama’s approval rating on the economy is still mired at 38/56, hardly a good position for an incumbent looking for a second term.  With another recession looking more likely, those numbers won’t improve much.  Right now, 71% think we’re in a recession, but they still blame George Bush 54/27 for it; that’s 49/24 among independents.  If we do hit negative territory again after two years of stagnation, though, Obama will end up owning it.

However, at the moment, Obama has a narrow lead over Republicans in trust on the economy, 45/38.  The bullet points show a serious vulnerability for Republicans in staring down Obama to the point where market disruptions from debt-ceiling paralysis occurs, assuming such disruptions do occur.  At least in this poll — and Quinnipiac has generally been a reliable, independent pollster — standing on the no-new-revenues pledge might end up with the GOP taking ownership of whatever follows.

This is, of course, exactly what Mitch McConnell warned about earlier this week.  However, Quinnipiac never asks the straightforward question of whether the ceiling should be raised, as other polls have and routinely get 2-1 opposition.  They do ask what worries voters more, that raising the debt limit would mean more government spending and debt, or economic disruption from a refusal to raise the ceiling.  The fear of economic disruption barely edges the fear of escalating debt 45/43, which seems somewhat of an outlier considering the polls from CBS and The Hill over the last few months.

If this poll is accurate, then McConnell has good reason to worry.

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Comment pages: 1 2 3

You really, REALLY lack in the bedroom department, don’t ya. That can be the only explanation for your opinions, and comments.

capejasmine on July 14, 2011 at 10:46 AM

I’v found that just typing Trudeau usually causes Drywall to retreat to his bunk for at least an hour.

a capella on July 14, 2011 at 10:50 AM

Why is your country so f*cked?

Dave Rywall on July 14, 2011 at 10:27 AM

And boy, why is your country hitting on all cylinders now?

You’s kind of dumb, boy, aren’t you?

MNHawk on July 14, 2011 at 10:50 AM


Screw the polls. You have to do what is RIGHT.

Say it Brotha1 Don’t tell a RINO though…they won’t understand!

winston on July 14, 2011 at 10:50 AM

I don’t much care who gets ‘credit’ or ‘blame’ if the ceiling isn’t raised.

Not raising it, cutting spending, and not increasing taxes IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO. It’s the only solution that actually addresses the problem and doesn’t delay it and make it worse.

Political consequences be damned, fellas – DO THE RIGHT THING.

Midas on July 14, 2011 at 10:51 AM

Dave Rywall on July 14, 2011 at 10:27 AM

Cryball – I’m for cutting spending, everywhere. Start with the fat.

While you’re picking on companies, why do Obama’s political contributors get to duck out of taxes. Why do they get special treatment?

Laura in Maryland on July 14, 2011 at 10:51 AM

Why is your country so f*cked?

Dave Rywall on July 14, 2011 at 10:27 AM

Because we have too many voters who think like you lately (’06 and ’08 elections). We’re doing our best to undo the damage your kindred ‘intellects’ have caused, so kindly STFU. Thanks.

Midas on July 14, 2011 at 10:52 AM

Don’t feed the trolls, dear. They multiply when you do.

Key West Reader on July 14, 2011 at 10:49 AM

He runs from substance anyway, but he does have a point contrasting Canada (and it’s leadership I assume) with the third world leadership of the United States.

I do admit the little guy probably didn’t realize the point he made by comparing the two countries, though.

MNHawk on July 14, 2011 at 10:52 AM

I don’t know if Q is any good; they have often appeared as a fringe-left outlier. But my biggest question is “who are the imbeciles they are polling?” to get such responses.

The 40% of Americans who are idiots of the left, sure. But virtually everyone else should be able to see what a nitwit Obama is.

Jaibones on July 14, 2011 at 10:53 AM

I hate to see the debt ceiling raised but don’t want to suffer any socialist created destruction, either. Raise it to Dec 31st and put in some cuts to spending. Let it sit in Harry’s desk along side the budget for ’12 passed earlier this year but not voted on. Zero would get the blame along with the senate dems.

Kissmygrits on July 14, 2011 at 10:53 AM

And can somebody explain this Moody’s crap? Our credit rating is going to suffer if we don’t borrow more money? Didn’t we see this show already?

This is the tactics Obama used to push the CRA on the banks and we’re sitting here letting it happen again if the house doesn’t hold the line. Burn the phone lines people.

DanMan on July 14, 2011 at 10:54 AM

I don’t know if Q is any good; they have often appeared as a fringe-left outlier. But my biggest question is “who are the imbeciles they are polling?” to get such responses.

The 40% of Americans who are idiots of the left, sure. But virtually everyone else should be able to see what a nitwit Obama is.

Jaibones on July 14, 2011 at 10:53 AM

I’d like to see the sampling, but alas. I cannot see the sampling. It’s transparent.

LOL.

Key West Reader on July 14, 2011 at 10:55 AM

OT: Italian Senate approves austerity package

Italy has avoided the worst of the financial crisis thanks to strong controls on public spending, a conservative banking system and a high level of private savings.

Even European “nanny” states are beginning to realise that socialism ends when you run out of other people’s money to spend!!

The GOP has the choice to either do NOW what they were elected to do OR wait until things are much worse – on the verge of collapse or already collapsed and they are faced with tougher choices.

In both cases, the media/Dems will blame them but in the second case, they will have hordes of screaming and protesting leftists/socialists/communists camping out in the Capitol ala Wisconsin and Greece.

I say DO IT NOW!!!

TheRightMan on July 14, 2011 at 10:58 AM

How have Global Warming opinions been trending lately?

Of course that never has anything to do with this study or that data point. It’s all about what has been repeated in the media most often for the past week.

In the long run, that doesn’t mean squat. Unfortunately, politicians (including Republican politicians) are the most short-sighted beings on earth. They don’t think; they simply react, like so many paramecia when a light is shined one direction or another.

And that’s who these headlines, and the polls that result from those headlines, and the headlines that result from those polls, etc…. are aimed at. This will get the Republican Caucus to cave.

There are going dozens of news cycles between now and next November, with dozens of new issues getting a quick bump in the polls. The voters won’t remember any of them when it really matters, except the one “November surprise” the Democrats and media agree to focus on.

All voters will remember when they decide what to do inside the booth (or even whether to bother going to the booth in the first place) is that the Republicans caved on the budget. Nothing about what the headlines and polls said this week will mean anything then.

logis on July 14, 2011 at 11:03 AM

An Investors Daily editorial points out that Obama Exposes Social Security’s Big Lie.

Drained Brain on July 14, 2011 at 11:04 AM

Rasmussen shows opposition to tax hikes.

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/business/taxes/july_2011/55_oppose_tax_hike_in_debt_ceiling_deal

andy85719 on July 14, 2011 at 11:00 AM

55% Oppose Tax Hike In Debt Ceiling Deal

That doesn’t count because it doesn’t show that people aren’t on board with doing the same stupid thing over and over again.

/Cave Flywall

Colbyjack on July 14, 2011 at 11:06 AM

The blame game is not all that complicated. If people feel “better off than [they] were four years ago” they’ll vote for the party in power. If not, they won’t. Voters didn’t re-elect Bill Clinton in 1996 because they were angry at Newt Gingrich. They were just satisfied with their overall condition.

I don’t think McConnell’s gimmick will either make or break the Republicans, who should concentrate on doing what they think is right for the economy. Relatively few people are going to hold the GOP responsible if things still look bleak in 2012. Even if the GOP presidential candidate reminds them a little too much of Dubya.

Seth Halpern on July 14, 2011 at 11:10 AM

An Investors Daily editorial points out that Obama Exposes Social Security’s Big Lie.

Drained Brain on July 14, 2011 at 11:04 AM

And also from IBD Eric Holder’s DOJ is forcing banks to loan to Blacks and Hispanics on welfare.

We are living on Planet Bizzarro.

Key West Reader on July 14, 2011 at 11:12 AM

Dave Rywall on July 14, 2011 at 10:15 AM

Aren’t you still Canadian? We don’t opine on your country’s dealings.

Red Cloud on July 14, 2011 at 10:30 AM
——–
How’s your campaign to Ed to get this site Americans-Only going?

Dave Rywall on July 14, 2011 at 11:20 AM

I just read the American Thinker article suggested on the thread about Obama’s tantrum.
It is what I already knew but a good explanation. Who cares if the GOP gets blamed? We can not continue to spend 42 cents over ever dollar taken in. Pay up now, not later. Stop! the spending.

ORconservative on July 14, 2011 at 11:21 AM

Cryball – I’m for cutting spending, everywhere. Start with the fat.

While you’re picking on companies, why do Obama’s political contributors get to duck out of taxes. Why do they get special treatment?

Laura in Maryland on July 14, 2011 at 10:51 AM
——-
Special treatment? They shouldn’t. Sorry to disappoint you by agreeing with you.
And which companies are you talking about?

Dave Rywall on July 14, 2011 at 11:22 AM

Why is it time and time again the GOP is always held responsible, while the Democrats, who share the lion share of the blame for economic performance for the last four years…seem to successfully deflect their shortcoming onto the minority? Again, my faith in the electorate is greatly diminished!

SPGuy on July 14, 2011 at 11:23 AM

I still want to see the poll that answers the question: how much more are YOU willing to pay in taxes.

red131 on July 14, 2011 at 11:27 AM

Why is your country so f*cked?

Dave Rywall on July 14, 2011 at 10:27 AM

And boy, why is your country hitting on all cylinders now?

You’s kind of dumb, boy, aren’t you?

MNHawk on July 14, 2011 at 10:50 AM
—–
More cylinders? Uh, yeah, we are. Look at the numbers. Look a the per capita debt. Look at the poverty rate. But that’s just because we have different priorities as a society that don’t lead to the economic chaos you’re experiencing in yours. We get more stability from a little less deregulation.

Yet you keep doing the same thing over and over and over again. Things will never change down there. You let rich people f you and laugh in your face. You refuse to cut defense. You cut education. Your entire political system is built around pork and protecting pork.

Have fun.

Dave Rywall on July 14, 2011 at 11:28 AM

Special treatment? They shouldn’t. Sorry to disappoint you by agreeing with you.
And which companies are you talking about?

Dave Rywall on July 14, 2011 at 11:22 AM

Start with General Electric and General Motors

Trafalgar on July 14, 2011 at 11:30 AM

Start with General Electric and General Motors

Trafalgar on July 14, 2011 at 11:30 AM
—-

Absolutely.

And raise the coporate tax rate while you’re at it.

You rcountry needs a 1 or 2 or 3% national sales tax too.

Dave Rywall on July 14, 2011 at 11:33 AM

Canadian trolls need to come here to comment because Canada is so f’d up that a website like HA could not exist in Canada, and most of us could not make the comments that we do in Canada, without being hauled before the extra-legal Canadian Human Rights Tribunal star chamber.

Having f’d up Canada thoroughly, they have nothing better to do than come here and do the same to us.

slickwillie2001 on July 14, 2011 at 11:39 AM

Well that’s that, the libturds have things nailed down for you now

tarpon on July 14, 2011 at 11:40 AM

Dave Rywall on July 14, 2011 at 11:28 AM

Do you claim that Canada spends more, per student on education than the US?

What does defense spending have to do with anything? It’s a small part of the budget, and is smaller as a percentage of federal spending than any time in decades.

If we cut out the pork then we don’t have to raise taxes, right?

Is the Obama stimulus not the best current example of pork that has produced little for US as a whole?

Really Right on July 14, 2011 at 11:41 AM

Canadian trolls need to come here to comment because Canada is so f’d up that a website like HA could not exist in Canada, and most of us could not make the comments that we do in Canada, without being hauled before the extra-legal Canadian Human Rights Tribunal star chamber.

Having f’d up Canada thoroughly, they have nothing better to do than come here and do the same to us.

slickwillie2001 on July 14, 2011 at 11:39 AM
—–
ha ha so funny!

Dave Rywall on July 14, 2011 at 11:43 AM

We get more stability from a little less deregulation.

What’s been “deregulated?”

Be specific.

Absolutely.

And raise the coporate tax rate while you’re at it.

You rcountry needs a 1 or 2 or 3% national sales tax too.

Dave Rywall on July 14, 2011 at 11:33 AM

We’ll thank you not to tell our country what it needs.

The same morons who complain that it isn’t high enough also whine the loudest when jobs flee overseas.

Curiouser and curiouser.

Yet you keep doing the same thing over and over and over again.

We know. Government spending is not the path to societal prosperity. Neither is excessive taxation.

Tell your favorite President. He doesn’t seem to be getting it.

Things will never change down there.

Not as long as Obama and the welfare queens keep insisting on the status quo. Right again!

You let rich people f you and laugh in your face.

Every get paid by somebody who made less than you?

You refuse to cut defense.

It’s kind of had defending the US and Canada. Maybe we should withdraw our security umbrella from Canada and the rest of NATO. Sound like a plan? Then you could pony up for your own military protection. Good idea!

You cut education.

We spend more per student on education than any industrialized nation, and that never gets cut. And test scores suggest our kids aren’t getting smarter or are doing better.

Money isn’t the problem. Unions and bad teachers are.

Your entire political system is built around pork and protecting pork.

No argument there, but it ain’t the Democrat party that wants to cut the pork and fat from government.

Stay in Canada. We’re all stocked up on collectivist stupid down here. You and your kind have done enough damage.

Good Lt on July 14, 2011 at 11:43 AM

You rcountry needs a 1 or 2 or 3% national sales tax too.

Dave Rywall on July 14, 2011 at 11:33 AM

Sure, why not?

And in a few years when that doesn’t pay for everything, why not just a 5-6% national sales tax.

And then just a 8-10% national sales tax.

Or… or… crazy thought here… we could just dial back the spending.

The amount of money I can make is finite. The amount of money Washington can spend isn’t.

12thMonkey on July 14, 2011 at 11:43 AM

I still want to see the poll that answers the question: how much more are YOU willing to pay in taxes.

red131 on July 14, 2011 at 11:27 AM

But there won’t be any tax increase for me.

All the other people will have to pay, though.

Like the rich. Go get ‘em.

12thMonkey on July 14, 2011 at 11:44 AM

Blockquote fail!

Good Lt on July 14, 2011 at 11:45 AM

If taxation and regulation are the paths to prosperity, Dave Rywall, then why not just tax at 100% and regulate everything as much as can be regulated?

Surely, if some more regulation and taxation is good, then way more of it must be much better.

Gosh. This is so easy!

Good Lt on July 14, 2011 at 11:46 AM

Do you claim that Canada spends more, per student on education than the US?

What does defense spending have to do with anything? It’s a small part of the budget, and is smaller as a percentage of federal spending than any time in decades.

If we cut out the pork then we don’t have to raise taxes, right?

Is the Obama stimulus not the best current example of pork that has produced little for US as a whole?

Really Right on July 14, 2011 at 11:41 AM
——-
We’ve never had mass layoffs of teachers.
You’ve had many many many.

“defense spending have to do with anything? It’s a small part of the budget, ”
SMALL PART OF THE BUDGET HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA 700 BILLION or 20% IS A SMALL PART HA HA HA YOU NEED YOUR OWN LATE NIGHT COMEDY SHOW

You need to cut pork AND raise income taxes, fool. Back to Clinton levels.

The stimulus package was necessary. That’s why you see Repulican guys at alllllllll those ribbon cutting ceremonies taking credit for it.

Dave Rywall on July 14, 2011 at 11:46 AM

If taxation and regulation are the paths to prosperity, Dave Rywall, then why not just tax at 100% and regulate everything as much as can be regulated?

Surely, if some more regulation and taxation is good, then way more of it must be much better.

Gosh. This is so easy!

Good Lt on July 14, 2011 at 11:46 AM
——-
What a dumb dumb dumb response. I will leave you to skate around in your ignorant swill.

Dave Rywall on July 14, 2011 at 11:47 AM

Sure, why not?

And in a few years when that doesn’t pay for everything, why not just a 5-6% national sales tax.

And then just a 8-10% national sales tax.

Or… or… crazy thought here… we could just dial back the spending.

The amount of money I can make is finite. The amount of money Washington can spend isn’t.

12thMonkey on July 14, 2011 at 11:43 AM
——–
Yeah, because the debt has to be eliminated in just “a few years”.
Duh.

Dave Rywall on July 14, 2011 at 11:48 AM

You let rich people f you and laugh in your face. You refuse to cut defense. You cut education.

By Obama’s standards I’m rich, I paid over $70,000 in federal income tax last year and believe me I’m not laughing…in anyone’s face or otherwise.

We cut our defense spending and your country is the one that’s f*cked son. Who do you think keeps you safe?

We spend more per student on education than any other country in the world, and it’s not working.

And raise the coporate tax rate while you’re at it.

You rcountry needs a 1 or 2 or 3% national sales tax too.

We already have the highest corporate tax rate in the world and it’s crippling businesses.

We don’t need to add more taxes, corporate, sales, income, or otherwise…we need to start “sharing the sacrifice” by having the 50% of our population who don’t pay any taxes start paying their fair share.

Trafalgar on July 14, 2011 at 11:48 AM

What a dumb dumb dumb response. I will leave you to skate around in your ignorant swill.

Dave Rywall on July 14, 2011 at 11:47 AM

It’s your ‘economic philosophy,’ buddy.

You’re damned right it’s dumb.

Good Lt on July 14, 2011 at 11:48 AM

50% of our population who don’t pay any taxes start paying their fair share.

Trafalgar on July 14, 2011 at 11:48 AM
——
ha ha ha tell us how much taxes you wish to collect from people earning 25 grand a year. Can’t wait.

Dave Rywall on July 14, 2011 at 11:51 AM

What a dumb dumb dumb response. I will leave you to skate around in your ignorant swill.

Dave Rywall on July 14, 2011 at 11:47 AM

It’s your ‘economic philosophy,’ buddy.

You’re damned right it’s dumb.

Good Lt on July 14, 2011 at 11:48 AM
—–
You don’t even realize how stupid your response was. That’s okay.

Dave Rywall on July 14, 2011 at 11:51 AM

You refuse to cut defense. You cut education. Your entire political system is built around pork and protecting pork.

Have fun.

Dave Rywall on July 14, 2011 at 11:28 AM

Don’t worry, we’re going to cut defense, as myself and other no longer give a flying f*** about defending entire countries full of welfare recipients. I’m sure the world will become a better place because of it.

As someone already brought up, education? How about some per student numbers. Do you dare to compare?

Who’s the mindset of protecting pork? Leftists and “moderate” Republicans, or the Tea Party types? Who’s already demanding we start lending to deadbeats again, Marxists in the justice department, or Tea Party types?

But ya know what? Decades of Trudeau style retardation can be overcome by just exploiting one’s own resources. That and sucking off America’s defence is why Canada is outperforming now. The tar sands will continue, but don’t count on us protecting you anymore. I just don’t want to pay for it, anymore.

MNHawk on July 14, 2011 at 11:53 AM

Yeah, because the debt has to be eliminated in just “a few years”.
Duh.

Dave Rywall on July 14, 2011 at 11:48 AM

It’s adorable that you think tax increases will go to pay off the debt.

Kind of like trillion-dollar stimulus packages are used for shovel-ready jobs, right?

12thMonkey on July 14, 2011 at 11:53 AM

You don’t even realize how stupid your response was. That’s okay.

Dave Rywall on July 14, 2011 at 11:51 AM

So we agree – more socialism is a really, really stupid idea.

Thanks for agreeing.

Good Lt on July 14, 2011 at 11:53 AM

Economics education in this country is poor. If Economics were taught by our (lefty) public schools, then Economics education in this country would be a disaster.

exdeadhead on July 14, 2011 at 11:55 AM

Dave Rywall on July 14, 2011 at 11:46 AM

Please run the numbers for us, so as to document your work.

Oops! You did.

“many, many, many”.

Really Right on July 14, 2011 at 11:55 AM

ha ha ha tell us how much taxes you wish to collect from people earning 25 grand a year. Can’t wait.

Dave Rywall on July 14, 2011 at 11:51 AM

How are those people making $25,000 per year?

Is government (via the taxes of employed taxpayers) paying them? Or some evil rich bastard?

Here’s an idea – let’s just limit the number of government services they can use.

After all, they’re not paying for them. Sound fair?

Good Lt on July 14, 2011 at 11:56 AM

ha ha ha tell us how much taxes you wish to collect from people earning 25 grand a year. Can’t wait.

Dave Rywall on July 14, 2011 at 11:51 AM

Perhaps if they’re on the receiving end, they should be on the contributing end, as well.

12thMonkey on July 14, 2011 at 11:56 AM

Full speed ahead and damn the torpedoes – we need to do the right thing and stop worrying about re-election.

If the people REALLY think Obama is more trustworthy or whatever, then this country is lost anyway.

disa on July 14, 2011 at 11:57 AM

ha ha ha tell us how much taxes you wish to collect from people earning 25 grand a year. Can’t wait.

Dave Rywall on July 14, 2011 at 11:51 AM

Well, if we had an across-the-board tax rate of say 7%, I’d collect $1,750 from them. 10% – $2,500, 12% – $3,000. See how easy this is?

Trafalgar on July 14, 2011 at 11:58 AM

ha ha so funny!

Dave Rywall on July 14, 2011 at 11:43 AM

It is, noting that the typical Canadian beta male needs government commissions to protect their delicate selves from the likes of Mark Steyn.

It really is amazing the amount of retardation Canada can overcome, with a conservative leader that believes in exploiting the country’s resources, such as lumber and oil sands.

MNHawk on July 14, 2011 at 11:58 AM

Well, if we had an across-the-board tax rate of say 7%, I’d collect $1,750 from them. 10% – $2,500, 12% – $3,000. See how easy this is?

Trafalgar on July 14, 2011 at 11:58 AM

That’s what I’m sayin, yo!

Let’s just make the tax rates 100%. Then, all money goes to the government and everything is paid for. Viola! Then, we follow that up with the regulation of every part of economic and civil life.

The result? UTOPIA.

We should be thanking Dave. He’s shown us the way.

Good Lt on July 14, 2011 at 11:59 AM

It’s adorable that you think tax increases will go to pay off the debt.

Kind of like trillion-dollar stimulus packages are used for shovel-ready jobs, right?

12thMonkey on July 14, 2011 at 11:53 AM
—–
Never said that. It’s just a small part.
Your country needs to change the way it behaves and thinks about things.
That will never ever happen.
So you’re f’d.
Enjoy the crippling debt.

Dave Rywall on July 14, 2011 at 12:01 PM

So we agree – more socialism is a really, really stupid idea.

Thanks for agreeing.

Good Lt on July 14, 2011 at 11:53 AM
—-
Fire dept = socialism
FDA = socialism
Armed forces = socialism
Winfall oil cheques to Alaskan citizens = socialism
Highways = socialism
I could go on and on with things people agree to pay into for the common good to get a benefit from.
Enjoy your debt.
The rich certainly are.

Dave Rywall on July 14, 2011 at 12:03 PM

I say DO IT NOW!!!
TheRightMan on July 14, 2011 at 10:58 AM

They won’t. It’s the period we’re in: the crack-up of the elites. The players in a tragedy don’t interrupt their own tragedy.

rrpjr on July 14, 2011 at 12:06 PM

Well, if we had an across-the-board tax rate of say 7%, I’d collect $1,750 from them. 10% – $2,500, 12% – $3,000. See how easy this is?

Trafalgar on July 14, 2011 at 11:58 AM
—–
Everyone should feel the same pain from income tax. Rich AND poor. So If the poor get kicked in the nuts for 2500$, then the rich should get the corresponding kick in the nuts which will be exponentially bigger. Your income tax system hurts rich people with a peacock feather. And they laugh at the rest of you for it.

Dave Rywall on July 14, 2011 at 12:10 PM

Fire dept = socialism
FDA = socialism
Armed forces = socialism
Winfall oil cheques to Alaskan citizens = socialism
Highways = socialism
I could go on and on with things people agree to pay into for the common good to get a benefit from.
Enjoy your debt.
The rich certainly are.

Dave Rywall on July 14, 2011 at 12:03 PM

People may agree that certain things are for the common good, the problem is that most DON’T pay for them at all. They expect other people to pay for everything for them while reaping all the benefits. And you left welfare, unlimited unemployment insurance, government handouts off your list.

Trafalgar on July 14, 2011 at 12:12 PM

People may agree that certain things are for the common good, the problem is that most DON’T pay for them at all. They expect other people to pay for everything for them while reaping all the benefits. And you left welfare, unlimited unemployment insurance, government handouts off your list.

Trafalgar on July 14, 2011 at 12:12 PM
——
True, those go on the list too.

My list contains things that many dumb people would argue isn’t socialism, when it obviously is.

Dave Rywall on July 14, 2011 at 12:13 PM

Everyone should feel the same pain from income tax. Rich AND poor. So If the poor get kicked in the nuts for 2500$, then the rich should get the corresponding kick in the nuts which will be exponentially bigger. Your income tax system hurts rich people with a peacock feather. And they laugh at the rest of you for it.

Dave Rywall on July 14, 2011 at 12:10 PM

So, if everyone should feel the same pain you’d agree that if someone earning $25K gets hit at 10%, someone earning $300K should get hit at the same rate? Both are left with 90% of what they earned right? But I suspect that the concept of “earning” what you get paid is an alien concept to you. Why do you hate people who earn more than you?

Trafalgar on July 14, 2011 at 12:18 PM

Dave Rywall on July 14, 2011 at 12:13 PM

You are appr. 60% snark, 40% talking points, and 0% reality.

Really Right on July 14, 2011 at 12:21 PM

My list contains things that many dumb people would argue isn’t socialism, when it obviously is.

Dave Rywall on July 14, 2011 at 12:13 PM

Not exactly. Only very dumb people would argue that national defense, a fire department, or a highway system that facilitates commerce are socialist. Only a very dumb person would argue that cradle-to-grave welfae, unlimited unemployment benefits, and massive handouts to non-contributing leeches are not socialist. So I guess that makes you….

Trafalgar on July 14, 2011 at 12:22 PM

Look if Obama is 45/38 against Congressional Republicans, and the Democrats are about equal in their performance via the Lefty Q-polls, then they aren’t trusted either.

Q-poll has not had the best wording nor the best demographics for their polling and have skewed Left for as long as I’ve been seeing them pop up. Shift those numbers 3% down for Obama and 3% up for Congressional Republicans and you get a dead-heat… and that is if their demos are on a good day. Show us the demographics and then you can tell if the poll has any meaning at all.

ajacksonian on July 14, 2011 at 12:24 PM

So, if everyone should feel the same pain you’d agree that if someone earning $25K gets hit at 10%, someone earning $300K should get hit at the same rate? Both are left with 90% of what they earned right? But I suspect that the concept of “earning” what you get paid is an alien concept to you. Why do you hate people who earn more than you?

Trafalgar on July 14, 2011 at 12:18 PM
——
Uh, no. 10% of 300K is not the same pain as 10% of 30k. Not even close.
Pain is relative. 300K should be up above 30%. Or 35.

It’s fine to think about it and dictate the “fair share” that a low income earner pays, but it’s ludicrous to simply apply that same rate to the rich since it’s hardly a mosquito bite to them. Saying gee, shucks, 30,000$ is a lot of money doesn’t cut it either. It should be the same pain for everyone. Don’t you remember scraping by when you were younger? The rich need to feel the same monetary pressure the lower income people feel when it comes to income tax.

Dave Rywall on July 14, 2011 at 12:27 PM

Not exactly. Only very dumb people would argue that national defense, a fire department, or a highway system that facilitates commerce are socialist. Only a very dumb person would argue that cradle-to-grave welfae, unlimited unemployment benefits, and massive handouts to non-contributing leeches are not socialist. So I guess that makes you….

Trafalgar on July 14, 2011 at 12:22 PM
——–
People paying into a pot that everybody benefits from. i.e. re-allocating wealth from allll those people and putting it into one pile. And buying tanks with it. Or fire trucks. Or building the interstate. Or providing medical attention to a poor person with no insurance. it’s all re-allocation of wealth. Sorry that bugs you.

Dave Rywall on July 14, 2011 at 12:29 PM

Uh, no. 10% of 300K is not the same pain as 10% of 30k. Not even close.
Pain is relative. 300K should be up above 30%. Or 35.

Nice to see that you’re admitting that taxes are unfavorable.

So, logically, they should all be raised to 100% to fund everything the great minds in government want for us.

I don’t know how any thinking person can oppose this.

Good Lt on July 14, 2011 at 12:30 PM

Dave Rywall on July 14, 2011 at 12:10 PM

Wow you are completely clueless! The wealthy here presently pay 97% of the taxes. If everyone earning over 250k were taxed at 100%, it would not make a dent in the debt and they would all flee to somewhere else.

Furthermore, corportations dont actually pay taxes. Your statement regarding that illustrates a very immature and uninformed perspective on how taxes actually work, so I have to ask, Dave, are you 12 or 13 years old?

dogsoldier on July 14, 2011 at 12:33 PM

Nice to see that you’re admitting that taxes are unfavorable.

So, logically, they should all be raised to 100% to fund everything the great minds in government want for us.

I don’t know how any thinking person can oppose this.

Good Lt on July 14, 2011 at 12:30 PM
—-
Your retarded game amuses nobody but yourself.

Dave Rywall on July 14, 2011 at 12:36 PM

Your retarded game amuses nobody but yourself.

Dave Rywall on July 14, 2011 at 12:36 PM

If raising taxes = prosperity, then why shouldn’t they be raised to 100%?

Can you answer, please?

Good Lt on July 14, 2011 at 12:38 PM

Wow you are completely clueless! The wealthy here presently pay 97% of the taxes. If everyone earning over 250k were taxed at 100%, it would not make a dent in the debt and they would all flee to somewhere else.

Furthermore, corportations dont actually pay taxes. Your statement regarding that illustrates a very immature and uninformed perspective on how taxes actually work, so I have to ask, Dave, are you 12 or 13 years old?

dogsoldier on July 14, 2011 at 12:33 PM
——
That you’re so f*cking stupid to suggest I was implying a 100% tax rate demonstrates what a complete jackass you are. Sir.

Then you claim that corporations do not pay taxes. Amazing.

Dave Rywall on July 14, 2011 at 12:38 PM

If raising taxes = prosperity, then why shouldn’t they be raised to 100%?

Can you answer, please?

Good Lt on July 14, 2011 at 12:38 PM
——-
I never said raising taxes = prosperity, little boy.

Dave Rywall on July 14, 2011 at 12:39 PM

Dave Rywall

Please just shut your ignorant pie hole. These matters do not concern you moron.

jawkneemusic on July 14, 2011 at 12:40 PM

If this poll is accurate, then McConnell has good reason to worry.

It is not just McConnell who is worried. The Democrats have been much superior to the Republicans at getting their postitions seen by the public in a positive light, even if it involves a few prevarications. This has held for the last eight decades.
I know a number of people in their eighth decade, as am I, who only started questioning what the MSM was feeding them when popular conservative pundits got on the radio two or three decades ago. Now, the intentionally ignorant get their news from Saturday Night Live.

burt on July 14, 2011 at 12:41 PM

I never said raising taxes = prosperity, little boy.

Dave Rywall on July 14, 2011 at 12:39 PM

So why are you advocating more tax increases on our society?

You’ve conceded that they don’t lead to prosperity.

Idiot.

Good Lt on July 14, 2011 at 12:42 PM

I would argue that the GOP has been awfully poor in messaging.

search4truth on July 14, 2011 at 10:16 AM

Painfully true, apparently. (Although McConnell is making a good start in a speech this morning.)

This, for example, is a message: “Apparently Pres. Obama is more willing to guarantee funds for Obamacare than he is willing to guarantee 50 million Social Security checks.” Or this: “Apparently Pres. Obama is either woefully misinformed about the way Social Security operates, or he is deliberately misleading America’s seniors. The only way Social Security checks would not go out on Aug. 3 is if he and Geitner decide on their own not to send them out.”

Republican Senators and Representatives alike should have been willing to crawl – barefoot – on scorching D.C. sidewalks to get to a microphone or tv camera to get out to the American people these or other messages sufficiently like them. They should have been on the phone to Scott Pelley demanding equal time since Pelley wouldn’t ask the obvious follow-ups.

I don’t envy Boehner or McConnell, but messaging is not that hard. I mean, a lot of us might like the “jello” metaphor, but that’s not a message; it’s more like saying “Eiyeyiyi!” How about something like “We’ve been negotiating for x weeks, and we have yet to see from the President a definitive list of near-term cuts he’s willing to make.” I know with a little thought people smarter – and better paid – than me could come up with effective “messages.”

Every time Republican leaders talk to the media, no matter what the topic, no matter what the question, they ought to start with something like “The President is willing to risk default to save Obamacare,” or “Remember: the same folks telling you raising taxes is a good idea are the same folks who told you the Stimulus is a good idea – at 280K per job – and it would keep unemployment below 8%.”

“No tax hikes” is not a message; it is a statement of principle. Tell Americans that raising taxes on those who make a million or more is raising taxes on 800,000 (or whatever the actual number) small and medium-sized businesses. Tell them that Democrats want to raise taxes on the job creators of America, but they will still let the deficit get bigger and bigger.

The folks reading this know that the Democrats have not committed to a budget in over two years. And they know juicy facts like the stimulus contained a corporate jet subsidy. (It simply would not do to have dear Tom Hanks not getting any break on his air travel.) But I’m willing to bet the average American, including a lot of those in this poll don’t know these tidbits. If they are going to learn these and other fun facts, Republicans need to teach them; that’s part of leading – teaching. That really was one of the things Reagan did so effectively. I was taught at a young age repititio est mater studiorum – repetition is the mother of study. Over and over again, Republicans need to teach the American people that Obama is more committed to Obamacare than he is to Social Security, that raising taxes will make growth and job creation more difficult, and that the people accusing Republicans of intransigence wouldn’t even talk to Republicans when they passed the Stimulus…Every message ought to begin and end with Obamacare, stimulus, and we have a plan for growth; Democrats don’t.

Democrats have mastered “messaging.” Republicans too often seem message-challenged. It’s so annoying, to quote Les Nessman, that it makes me want to beat my rugs.

EastofEden on July 14, 2011 at 12:42 PM

Maybe government spending in the US should be 100% of GDP.

So if we’re living under Rywallism, every dollar you make goes to government, and the government in turn will spend all the money on “your greater good.”

Don’t worry. They’re doing it in the common interest, as they always have.

Good Lt on July 14, 2011 at 12:45 PM

Then you claim that corporations do not pay taxes. Amazing.

Dave Rywall on July 14, 2011 at 12:38 PM

You never suggested 100% tax nor did I claim you had. Lets add reading comprehension problems to your lack of maturity and ignorance.

Corporations do not pay taxes. Now why in heaven’s name would I say that? THEY DON’T DUMMY, they pass the tax on to consumers. Everyone with an edumacation above the 5th grade level knows and understands that.

dogsoldier on July 14, 2011 at 1:02 PM

So why are you advocating more tax increases on our society?

You’ve conceded that they don’t lead to prosperity.

Idiot.

Good Lt on July 14, 2011 at 12:42 PM
——
In a discussion of a country’s debt, you feel the discussion of various revenue streams available to the government is inappropriate.
Thanks for proving your cluelessness.

Dave Rywall on July 14, 2011 at 1:03 PM

At issue is America’s creditworthiness, not extending credit – we have Uncle Ben’s printing press for that. How is America’s creditworthiness helped by spending 2.5 trillion when we cannot pay back the 14.5 we already owe and we cannot even balance our budget?

Is the goal to stay drunk, avoid a hangover, or get sober?

Angry Dumbo on July 14, 2011 at 1:05 PM

Dave Rywall on July 14, 2011 at 1:03 PM

I guess the WH is on an austerity budget. Sending the likes of you, all alone, so vulnerable. Ask for an earmark.

And before you claim that Canada can’t get one, go ask the prostitutes in China how much American Taxpayer money they got.

Really, David. Come up for lunch! Mac n cheese today!

Love,
Mom.

Key West Reader on July 14, 2011 at 1:06 PM

Angry Dumbo on July 14, 2011 at 1:05 PM

I dunno about you, but I usually know if I’m going to get close to my limit on a credit card. Is Obama that retarded?

Key West Reader on July 14, 2011 at 1:07 PM

In a discussion of a country’s debt, you feel the discussion of various revenue streams available to the government spending levels and spending priorities is inappropriate.
Thanks for proving your cluelessness.

Dave Rywall on July 14, 2011 at 1:03 PM

Good Lt on July 14, 2011 at 1:08 PM

“Blame” or “credit”?
On the one hand we have polls opposing raising the debt limit by 2:1. We have polls rejecting increased taxes as part of any debt settlement package on the debt ceiling. And here you have a poll “blaming” the Republicans if there is no debt limit increase! I say it’s not blame but credit! Who are the only people standing against raising the debt limit and raising taxes? Sure as hell ain’t the Democrats! So yes, if President O-boo-hoo and the Dims won’t do the right thing in reducing spending without increasing taxes, then I, along with a majority of Americans will give the Republicans credit for standing firm, even if it means there is no debt limit increase!

kazanboyets on July 14, 2011 at 1:09 PM

You never suggested 100% tax nor did I claim you had. Lets add reading comprehension problems to your lack of maturity and ignorance.

Corporations do not pay taxes. Now why in heaven’s name would I say that? THEY DON’T DUMMY, they pass the tax on to consumers. Everyone with an edumacation above the 5th grade level knows and understands that.

dogsoldier on July 14, 2011 at 1:02 PM
——
That they possibly pad consumer prices to recoup what they fork over to the government doesn’t change the fact that the government gains the revenue. Thanks for the laugh.

Dave Rywall on July 14, 2011 at 1:10 PM

That they possibly pad consumer prices to recoup what they fork over to the government doesn’t change the fact that the government gains the revenue. Thanks for the laugh.

Dave Rywall on July 14, 2011 at 1:10 PM

Who loses?

The consumers/the little guy do.

Thanks for playing, moron.

The “rich” aren’t hurt by higher taxes. The middle class and poor are.

Good Lt on July 14, 2011 at 1:12 PM

Dave Rywall’s vision of utopia – with video!

Good Lt on July 14, 2011 at 1:14 PM

Uh, no. 10% of 300K is not the same pain as 10% of 30k. Not even close.
Pain is relative. 300K should be up above 30%. Or 35.

It’s fine to think about it and dictate the “fair share” that a low income earner pays, but it’s ludicrous to simply apply that same rate to the rich since it’s hardly a mosquito bite to them. Saying gee, shucks, 30,000$ is a lot of money doesn’t cut it either. It should be the same pain for everyone. Don’t you remember scraping by when you were younger? The rich need to feel the same monetary pressure the lower income people feel when it comes to income tax.

Dave Rywall on July 14, 2011 at 12:27 PM

At least you’ve now revealed your true position. You believe taxes should be punitive, not having to do with sharing in paying for the general welfare, but punishing the rich simply for being rich. Why do you hate rich people?

And by the way, when you earn $300K, have a mortgage, kids in college, etc. $30K is a lot of money.

Trafalgar on July 14, 2011 at 1:16 PM

Obama is pissed that Republicans are forcing him to reject the free credit card in the mail. If you have ever had problems with your credit you know that applying for a new credit card does nothing to improve your credit. Borrowing on one card to pay off another is a dangerous game because lenders aren’t stupid, they will ultimately figure out that you are not a good credit risk. Borrow if you must, but do not delude yourself into believing that you can borrow your way out of debt because your creditors won’t. Step on in controlling debt is controlling spending. Lord knows Congress has no record to speak of in that regard.

2012 cannot come fast enough.

Angry Dumbo on July 14, 2011 at 1:17 PM

What progressives want:

During good times they want higher taxes for the rich and big cuts in defense.

During bad times they want higher taxes for the rich and big cuts in defense.

During all other times they want higher taxes for the rich and big cuts in defense.

But I do like the consistency.

Really Right on July 14, 2011 at 1:19 PM

What progressives want:

During good times they want higher taxes for the rich and big cuts in defense.

During bad times they want higher taxes for the rich and big cuts in defense.

During all other times they want higher taxes for the rich and big cuts in defense.

But I do like the consistency.

Really Right on July 14, 2011 at 1:19 PM

Bingo.

Good Lt on July 14, 2011 at 1:20 PM

Q-poll: GOP will get blame if debt ceiling not raised

The GOP should demand credit for doing the correct thing with the debt limit!

RJL on July 14, 2011 at 1:22 PM

Good Lt on July 14, 2011 at 1:12 PM

Don’t they call that a faux pas? He has no clue how badly he just embarrassed himself. Admitting he was wrong and trying to cover it up all in the space of a single sentence.

Dave you’ve been trounced, you should go out and play now.

dogsoldier on July 14, 2011 at 1:26 PM

Canada has all sorts

on the high end of the spectrum you have mark steyn

and on the seabed you have drywall

“How come you refuse to make cuts to the military?
Dave Rywall on July 14, 2011 at 10:27 AM”

gotta keep Canada under our umbrella like all the other NATO dependents

Sonosam on July 14, 2011 at 1:28 PM

“How come you refuse to make cuts to the military?
Dave Rywall on July 14, 2011 at 10:27 AM”

gotta keep Canada under our umbrella like all the other NATO dependents

Sonosam on July 14, 2011 at 1:28 PM

I’m all for pulling out of NATO and the security blanket for Canada.

Let them provide for their own defense and pay for it.

Either that, or start taxing Dave Rywall and others retroactively for that protection.

PAY YOUR FAIR SHARE, DAVE. Protecting your worthless rump ain’t free for us, you know.

Good Lt on July 14, 2011 at 1:32 PM

Sonosam on July 14, 2011 at 1:28 PM

Mr. Steyn lives in NH now, I believe and he likes it here very much.

Of course he will have to say that himself. (and may have done already)

dogsoldier on July 14, 2011 at 1:36 PM

@Drywall:

…While in YOUR country, you have to speak only government-approved words, and you must print signs only in government-approved language!!!

- good luck with your politically-correct excuse for a national government.

landlines on July 14, 2011 at 1:44 PM

Blame?

If they manage to hold to principle and refuse to raise the debt limit, I will give them credit.

Stephen Macklin on July 14, 2011 at 1:45 PM

@Drywall:

…While in YOUR country, you have to speak only government-approved words, and you must print signs only in government-approved language!!!

- good luck with your politically-correct excuse for a national government.

landlines on July 14, 2011 at 1:44 PM
—-

YEAH!!!!!
It’s like THAT!!!

Dave Rywall on July 14, 2011 at 2:10 PM

YEAH!!!!!
It’s like THAT!!!

Dave Rywall on July 14, 2011 at 2:10 PM

So when can we expect you to start paying taxes to us for the military protection your country receives from ours?

Let us know. kthx.

Good Lt on July 14, 2011 at 2:19 PM

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