Here we go: Schumer says Dems are discussing whether WH can ignore the debt ceiling

posted at 6:17 pm on July 1, 2011 by Allahpundit

Last week it was a theory being kicked around on left-wing websites, today it’s evidently the nuclear option in the White House’s arsenal of debt-ceiling weapons. Go figure.

Congress has raised the debt ceiling no fewer than 74 times in the past 50 years, but now, conveniently, it turns out the president’s inherent power under the Fourteenth Amendment may mean it was up to him all along. Again, go figure.

On a conference call with reporters Friday, Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-NY) acknowledged that President Obama may not need Congressional authorization to avoid a default on the national debt. But he noted, too, that the Constitutional debate on this question isn’t ripe enough yet for Obama to take an end run around Congress, even if Republicans refuse to increase the national borrowing limit.

I asked Schumer, a lawyer, whether, in his view, the administration had the power to continue issuing new debt even if Congress fails to raise the debt limit. He acknowledged that the question’s been discussed, but said the White House probably shouldn’t go there just yet.

“It’s certainly worth exploring,” Schumer said. “I think it needs a little more exploration and study. It’s probably not right to pursue at this point and you wouldn’t want to go ahead and issue the debt and then have the courts reverse it.”

As I said last week when I wrote about this, I’m morbidly curious to see how the public would react if he pulled something radical in the name of staving off economic calamity. He’s already ringing the alarm bell by demanding a deal by July 22, ten days before we hit the ceiling on August 2, in order to avoid frightening international markets. Democratic messaging is ramping up too: Paul Krugman wrote a quintessentially Krugman-esque piece this morning about how those darned wingnuts want to wreck Obama’s presidency on the rocks of economic armageddon. Expect lots more of that after the holiday; given the public’s utter desperation to see the economy improve, the “sky is falling” approach to the debt ceiling is a way more effective line of argument for Democrats than mumbling about corporate jets. And in fact, the sky really might be falling. And yet, if he did pull something like declaring the debt ceiling unconstitutional, he’d be seizing control of the country’s apocalyptic debt problem for the purpose of running up more debt. I doubt it would even accomplish what he wanted it to accomplish: If the goal here is to reassure creditors that the U.S. will never default on its obligations in order to avert a market panic and skyrocketing interest rates, how exactly would a power grab involving an utterly novel constitutional theory achieve that? Does a bitter court battle, with the legality of payments issued on Obama’s unilateral order hanging in the balance, sound like a smart way to put investors at ease?

National Journal noted yesterday, seemingly without irony, that if the White House takes up this idea, it would fall to the Office of Legal Counsel to advise Obama on whether it’s constitutional or not. You may remember the OLC from the War Powers debate over Libya, where Obama broke with proper procedure and deliberately sidelined the Office because he knew that its director thought he was violating the WPA by not seeking congressional authorization. Gosh, I wonder what he’ll do this time if he gets the sense that they think the debt ceiling is a matter for the legislature, not the executive. Exit question: Spending cuts vs. tax hikes — what would Reagan do?

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Comment pages: 1 2

Good… the GOP should also leak that we will shut down the Govt. if they do so.

They want to play hardball? Bring it on…

Unfortunately, considering the calibre of congressional leaders we have, I bet they will fold.

TheRightMan on July 1, 2011 at 6:20 PM

Dear Lord please do not let him do this. The fallout would be horrific.

gophergirl on July 1, 2011 at 6:20 PM

This guy is a maggot!

SayNo2-O on July 1, 2011 at 6:22 PM

Our government is nothing more than a banana republic. There is no critical analysis from the media and these stooges can do what they please.

hawkdriver on July 1, 2011 at 6:22 PM

the country is finished either way.

grapeknutz on July 1, 2011 at 6:22 PM

El Rushbo is right..Obie World is crumbling fast..:)

Dire Straits on July 1, 2011 at 6:22 PM

Let him do his worst.

Otherwise, those who do not pay any attention to the Traitor-in-Chief will have no idea what we who slavishly follow his exploits know of him.

If it hurts, it instructs.

And the 52% deserve to have a Chuck Norris roundhouse to the temple for what they have done to our country.

We can pick up the pieces when these people are thrown the **** out of office in 2012 and start rebuilding.

turfmann on July 1, 2011 at 6:23 PM

If the US does not default, then it must go into more debt, print more money, devalue its currency, and otherwise lower investor’s confidence. So either way, investor confidence takes a hit, driving up interest rates.

No matter how this turns out, interest rates are going to increase dramatically, the dollar will fall dramatically, and still, the debt will climb. And I have no doubt that the debt ceiling will be raised. Even Rand Paul is amenable to the idea.

keep the change on July 1, 2011 at 6:23 PM

Just think if the WH ignores the debt limit, congress will never have to worry about raising it again. /s

Dasher on July 1, 2011 at 6:24 PM

Dear Lord please do not let him do this. The fallout would be horrific.

gophergirl on July 1, 2011 at 6:20 PM

Horrific for who? :).

I double dare him to do it! He will not only be ensuring death to any re-election bid but it will result in the total annihilation of the Dems in 2012 save for a few in liberal enclaves.

TheRightMan on July 1, 2011 at 6:24 PM

So if I understand this correctly, Obozo wants to know the U.S. Treasury holds his personal VISA card???

Go ahead Obozo, I dare ya. Make my day. We’ll see a red tide that will take the purple out of Wisconsin, that’s for sure.

KMC1 on July 1, 2011 at 6:25 PM

I’m curious…when the president is Barack Obama, does he need congressional authorization for ANYTHING?

MadisonConservative on July 1, 2011 at 6:25 PM

I asked Schumer, a lawyer

LOL.

Chuck U. also used that conference call to confirm Misther Limbaugh’s prescient prediction from earlier this week-that the Dems are so desperate that they are trying to claim that they didn’t sabotage the US economy-the R’s did it.

Del Dolemonte on July 1, 2011 at 6:25 PM

Hugo Chavez approves.

Knucklehead on July 1, 2011 at 6:26 PM

Horrific for who? :).

I double dare him to do it! He will not only be ensuring death to any re-election bid but it will result in the total annihilation of the Dems in 2012 save for a few in liberal enclaves.

TheRightMan on July 1, 2011 at 6:24 PM

I’m afraid it would tear this country in two. As much as I can’t stand Obama – I love this country more.

gophergirl on July 1, 2011 at 6:27 PM

Chuck U. is claiming the GOP is sabotaging our economy by trying to balance the budget. Evidently bankrupting the country is a standard operating procedure for liberals.

volsense on July 1, 2011 at 6:28 PM

Failure to increase the debt ceiling doesn’t mean we default on our loans. It means the U.S. won’t won’t have the money to pay for SOMETHING, but to assume we’d choose to blow off our debt payments or paying interest on the debt is silly.

joejm65 on July 1, 2011 at 6:29 PM

Will the troops be paid if there is a shutdown?

ladyingray on July 1, 2011 at 6:30 PM

MadisonConservative on July 1, 2011 at 6:25 PM

Good point!..It is starting to look that way..GOP has to raise He!! about this..:)

Dire Straits on July 1, 2011 at 6:30 PM

As I said last week when I wrote about this, I’m morbidly curious to see how the public would react if he pulled something radical in the name of staving off economic calamity.

The majority of Americans don’t want an increase.

ladyingray on July 1, 2011 at 6:30 PM

Power Thug

Schadenfreude on July 1, 2011 at 6:31 PM

Hugo Chavez approves.

Knucklehead on July 1, 2011 at 6:26 PM

Very good point!..:)

Dire Straits on July 1, 2011 at 6:31 PM

President Present actually owning something???
Seriously???

HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!HA!

BigWyo on July 1, 2011 at 6:31 PM

Impertinent Power Thug

Schadenfreude on July 1, 2011 at 6:32 PM

We can pick up the pieces when these people are thrown the **** out of office in 2012 and start rebuilding.

turfmann on July 1, 2011 at 6:23 PM

There won’t be anything left to rebuild with.

Common Sense on July 1, 2011 at 6:32 PM

the president’s inherent power under the Fourteenth Amendment may mean it was up to him all along

You mean Obama can do this because he’s a natural born citizen?

Emperor Norton on July 1, 2011 at 6:32 PM

If he gets another term Chavez will look like a gnat in the annals of history.

Schadenfreude on July 1, 2011 at 6:32 PM

When are they going to start impeachment proceedings?

Fallon on July 1, 2011 at 6:33 PM

Will the troops be paid if there is a shutdown?

ladyingray on July 1, 2011 at 6:30 PM

If they aren’t they have every right to storm the ‘castle’ and take payment…or to just walk away. It’s bad enough we’re making them into target practice for the fantasy of nation-building, but to tell them to do it FOR FREE is beyond tolerable.

Uncle Sams Nephew on July 1, 2011 at 6:33 PM

Lawless. That is the only word to describe the Obama administration. Impeachment is starting to look like the only option, but there’s no way the Democrat-controlled senate would ever vote to convict. How the hell can we survive this?

WesternActor on July 1, 2011 at 6:33 PM

Congress has raised the debt ceiling no fewer than 74 times in the past 50 years…

So, what’s the point of having one?

Left Coast Right Mind on July 1, 2011 at 6:34 PM

Impeach Ogabe, plain and simple.

rightwingyahooo on July 1, 2011 at 6:35 PM

Happy Independance Day to you too Dems! I guess we know if you are against America or for it, in case there was any doubt.

txmomof6 on July 1, 2011 at 6:36 PM

Wolverines!..:)

Dire Straits on July 1, 2011 at 6:36 PM

Governor Dayton of Minnesota just tried a version of this stunt on a state level, and it produced a government shutdown.

Emperor Norton on July 1, 2011 at 6:36 PM

How the hell can we survive this?

WesternActor on July 1, 2011 at 6:33 PM

We can’t as long as the LameStreamMedia is silent.

Why do I get the feeling this may be the last 4th of July we’ll be celebrating?

Knucklehead on July 1, 2011 at 6:38 PM

The scam will be coming out of dc by the d’s that the military, seniors, and the little kiddies won’t get money! If bho does the eo thing to do this our Republic is sol! God please get this slimy crud out of the wh.
L

letget on July 1, 2011 at 6:38 PM

Obama Complains About his Workload

Obama

“They’re in one week, they’re out one week. And then they’re saying, ‘Obama has got to step in. You need to be here.’ I’ve been here. I’ve been doing Afghanistan and bin Laden and the Greek crisis. You stay here. Let’s get it done.”

Heh, indignance is indignant.

He means something else by “I’ve been doing”.

Schadenfreude on July 1, 2011 at 6:38 PM

Chuck Schumer…Anthony Weiner’s daddy/mentor….I SAY: LET LOOSE THE DOGS OF WAR! No debt ceiling vote…let Obama do it alone with his crazies and show the American voters that he and his have lied and demagogued this issue as so many others to death. New Yorkers are truly very sick people!!

sharinlite on July 1, 2011 at 6:40 PM

I’m not sure that “dick” will stop at anything, but it makes one wonder what would an uprising against the government look like? There are no regional or other grounds that are obvious. What form would it take? Would it be limited to crowds around government buildings, withholding of tax payments, cash withdrawals from banks or something more “kinetic”?

Mason on July 1, 2011 at 6:40 PM

If Obama is reelected and taxes go up, I’m moving to Israel.

jawkneemusic on July 1, 2011 at 6:41 PM

So he can start a war docap and trade, dream act, FEC and his HHS cheif can determine who does and doesn’t have to implement Obamacare? Why do we need a comgress? Next he’ll raise taxes and seize IRAs. That doesn’t seem that far fecthed now.

ldbgcoleman on July 1, 2011 at 6:41 PM

Which constitutional crisis will boil over into the streets…?

d1carter on July 1, 2011 at 6:42 PM

Let’s ask Tim Pawlenty if he thinks Obama has this power, too.

Emperor Norton on July 1, 2011 at 6:42 PM

Congress has raised the debt ceiling no fewer than 74 times in the past 50 years, but now, conveniently, it turns out the president’s inherent power under the Fourteenth Amendment may mean it was up to him all along. Again, go figure.
================

Let Obama own it,and we will use his very own words!
——————————————————

THE CORNER
************

Senator Barack Obama Explaining his 2006 Vote Against Raising the Debt Limit
Jan 4 2011
**************
**************

From Sen. Obama’s Floor Speech, March 20, 2006:
***********************************************

The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. … Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that “the buck stops here.” Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.

http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/256288/senator-barack-obama-explaining-his-2006-vote-against-raising-debt-limit-andrew-c-mcca
=================

The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure.

It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies.

Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally.

Leadership means that “the buck stops here.”

onto the backs of our children and grandchildren

and a failure of leadership

Americans deserve better.
******************************

*Read the Numbers.in Trillions:

At the time, Senator Obama was urging Congress not to tolerate an increase that would bring the debt ceiling to $9 trillion. Under President Obama, the debt ceiling has been raised to $14.3 trillion. Even without counting most unfunded liabilities, the national debt is now calculated to be nearing $14.1 trillion. It increases about $4.22 billion per day (each citizen’s share stands at roughly $45K). Thus, Democrats will soon demand that the debt ceiling be raised, lest the sky fall. When they do, they will be asking for a significant boost in a ceiling that is already 60 percent higher than the one Barack Obama said was “a sign of leadership failure” five years ago.

canopfor on July 1, 2011 at 6:43 PM

Dr. K is covering for Romney’s latest flip flop on Fox…

d1carter on July 1, 2011 at 6:43 PM

Our military is sworn to protect the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic. It may come to that.

viking01 on July 1, 2011 at 6:44 PM

Will the troops be paid if there is a shutdown?

ladyingray on July 1, 2011 at 6:30 PM

They will unless the Democrats refuse.

FloatingRock on July 1, 2011 at 6:44 PM

Happy Independance Day to you too Dems! I guess we know if you are against America or for it, in case there was any doubt.

txmomof6 on July 1, 2011 at 6:36 PM

Well, the Democrats long ago succeeded in censoring this vintage Warner Brothers cartoon from 1939, which was regularly shown in theaters and later on TV. It disappeared from network TV completely in the early 1960s, but by the late 1960s it was adopted by the Left as their very own, and was used as a comedy filler between band sets at the Fillmore West in Fran Sanfrisco.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utkBu-mqi-c

Del Dolemonte on July 1, 2011 at 6:46 PM

If Sarah Palin comes out swinging on this, GAME OVER.

SouthernGent on July 1, 2011 at 6:48 PM

As Barry would say, “It’s good to be the King”.

The “Constitutional Scholar” (what has he ever written?) obviously has forgotten that Congress holds the purse strings.

GarandFan on July 1, 2011 at 6:50 PM

Hugo Chavez approves.

Knucklehead on July 1, 2011 at 6:26 PM

+++1000

lovingmyUSA on July 1, 2011 at 6:50 PM

How does THIS-
“The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law,”
= Obama can ignore congress?!?!

It will be debt that’s NOT authorized by congress and therefore… not authorized by law

Skywise on July 1, 2011 at 6:51 PM

Somebody called Obama a maggot. I’m deeply offended. On behalf of all self-respecting maggots everywhere, I apologize for this slander.

MaiDee on July 1, 2011 at 6:54 PM

Did zero bypass congress when it was controlled by democrats? Nooo–he only had to tell them what course of action he expected: therefore a new congress was put into place by we the people and is being ignored by zero. Will he ignore the 2012 elections so he is able to continue his destruction of the country as we sit by and watch?

dragondrop on July 1, 2011 at 6:54 PM

Does a bitter court battle, with the legality of payments issued on Obama’s unilateral order hanging in the balance, sound like a smart way to put investors at ease?

How would Øbama know?

Kafir on July 1, 2011 at 6:58 PM

If Sarah Palin comes out swinging on this, GAME OVER.

SouthernGent on July 1, 2011 at 6:48 PM

If? If?

turfmann on July 1, 2011 at 7:00 PM

lovingmyUSA on July 1, 2011 at 6:50 PM

Do you have the latest on Txmomof3 and the flood situation?..

PS..Thank you!..:)

Dire Straits on July 1, 2011 at 7:01 PM

… it turns out the president’s inherent power under the Fourteenth Amendment may mean it was up to him all along.

The Fourteenth Amendment to the US Constitution:

Section 4.
The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any state shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

Section 5.
The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.

NOwhere in this Amendment does it even come CLOSE to suggesting the feasibility of the President to exercise power with regard to the debt limit of the United States.

No. Not ANYwhere.

It SAYS that The United States has an unquestionable right to be in debt.

It ALSO says, quite specifically, that CONGRESS

shall have the power to enforce, BY APPROPRIATE LEGISLATION, the provisions of this article.

Ummm … that’s the CONGRESS, y’all. NOT the Executive Branch.

I’d like to see the convolutions which are leading the Liberal Artisans to arrive at the impossible finding which would allow the President to have somehow acquired this “inherent power”.

This isn’t smoke and mirrors.

This is plain and simple obfuscation for the purpose of throwing off the hounds of responsibility.

As such, it is of no standing with regard to the issue at hand.

Farmer on July 1, 2011 at 7:01 PM

I can’t wait to see the new $1 Million dollar bills with Obowma’s picture on it…

… I should have known better than to check in whilst on vacation.

Seven Percent Solution on July 1, 2011 at 7:02 PM

If Sarah Palin comes out swinging on this, GAME OVER.

SouthernGent on July 1, 2011 at 6:48 PM

She’s the only one with the huevos to say anything. Everyone else is too afraid of losing their career job or too afraid of the media.

The republican party is in dire need of dewussification.

BruthaMan on July 1, 2011 at 7:02 PM

“Civil disobedience becomes a sacred duty when the state has become lawless or corrupt. And a citizen who barters with such a state shares in its corruption and lawlessness…There is only one sovereign remedy, namely, non-violent non-cooperation.”

– Mohandas Gandhi

Bugler on July 1, 2011 at 7:03 PM

Which course of action allows him to publicly criticize his political opponents the most?
 
That’s the one he’ll take.

rogerb on July 1, 2011 at 7:11 PM

lovingmyUSA on July 1, 2011 at 6:50 PM

Do you have the latest on Txmomof3 and the flood situation?..

PS..Thank you!..:)

Dire Straits on July 1, 2011 at 7:01 PM

Here is her neighborhood. So far they are prob going to buy out the homeowners and make it into a greenbelt…
http://www.kmot.com/Video_News.asp?news=50522

lovingmyUSA on July 1, 2011 at 7:12 PM

I’m afraid it would tear this country in two. As much as I can’t stand Obama – I love this country more.

gophergirl on July 1, 2011 at 6:27 PM

There does not seem to be any dispute among those of us who really care about America that increasing the debt ceiling without meaningful cuts now will simply kick the can down the road and make things more difficult later. With control of the house the Republicans should be able to beat Obama on this and do it in a way that pins the “tax and borrow and spend” label on the dems.

GaltBlvnAtty on July 1, 2011 at 7:13 PM

Who is going to buy Treasury bonds at any price if their legality is not certain? This is where this cockamamie idea falls on its face.

rockmom on July 1, 2011 at 7:16 PM

What would Reagan do?

The real question now is what would George Washington, Samuel Adams, Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, and their generation of patriots do, and do we have any of their spirit remaining within our blood?

This situation is intolerable. Absolutely intolerable. This government has turned against its people, and has thrown the limitations set by the founding documents into the fire in the name of their agenda.

If we fail to do what is necessary now, our nation will cease to exist in any form relative to what it has been. Are we willing to pay that price for the sake of another day of security and hope that someone else will take care of the problem?

The people must march on DC, will all the haste and crushing numbers that can be mustered, and they must have the support of sovereign states. Nothing less will suffice.

IronDioPriest on July 1, 2011 at 7:17 PM

Dire, she is doing as well as can be expected, considering they are homeless…waiting for the water to go down, and seeing what FRMA will do. They are living in a trailer out on the prairee, her mom and dad, three kids and hubby, and dogs and cats…Their belongings are in a garage of a friend…Is very emotionally draining for her. Keep her in your prayers.

lovingmyUSA on July 1, 2011 at 7:18 PM

Please do this, please, oh please. Can you imagine the ads? “In a power grab Prez. Obama seized authority to raise our debt ceiling so he could continue to spend money we do not have…” of something to that effect. It would be awesome.

The Opinionator on July 1, 2011 at 7:21 PM

this is all political theater…and, yes, there is no hope.

Barry/Left have the power…and are not afraid to use it to damage conservatives in any way possible. They do not fear, they have protection in the press. So playing “chicken” is great for them…what do they have to lose? If the Rs cave, great they’ll win the next election and get to buy more votes. If the Rs hang tough, they will be blamed for the consequences and the Dims will win the next election and buy more votes

Simple. IL raised income taxes a lot. CA will be raising taxes soon. The Machine needs more of your money…a lot more. Barry is just doing the reverse Reagan…spend unbelievable amounts of money then say…it is already spent. Fait Accompli.

Unemployment…not an issue, they’ve got UI and SNAP…or a free education to keep them busy and out of the workplace. Really, there is no problem…slow growth not a problem…it fits with Greening of America…Small is Beautiful. We don’t need the excess wealth.

r keller on July 1, 2011 at 7:30 PM

Yes they can. They won.

All hail Benito Barack Dickhead Hussein Obama, the Lion of Libya, the Scourge of Sudan..

Dhuka on July 1, 2011 at 7:32 PM

Who is going to buy Treasury bonds at any price if their legality is not certain?

The Fed will buy them. All of them.

Emperor Norton on July 1, 2011 at 7:34 PM

John Cambel is on Hugh Hewitt right now. He says there is ZERO chance of default. Obama is once again playing politics with out children’s future. POS.

jawkneemusic on July 1, 2011 at 7:43 PM

If the goal here is to reassure creditors that the U.S. will never default on its obligations in order to avert a market panic and skyrocketing interest rates

Yeah, sure, ignoring the clear language in the constitution to ring up debt, in the midst of quantitative easing (aka printing money), I’m sure the markets will love that.

pedestrian on July 1, 2011 at 7:49 PM

When will you pettifoggers and minor debaters come to the realization that we MUST act. We MUST.

And just how do we do that, Mr. Smarty-pants?

First, exhort your representatives to stand firm, to hold to the line they’ve drawn, with no thought of any compromise on the debt issue.

Second, exhort, in no uncertain terms, the leadership on BOTH sides of the aisle to forgo their persons in order to save the Union.

Third, begin to assemble those who would, indeed, march upon the Capitol, and march upon the White House, and march upon the Supreme Court in a MASSIVE show of the ACTUAL Will Of The People.

I’m talking MILLIONS of people. Uncountable numbers.

We must discount completely every single point the liberal media, personages, commentators, reporters, editors, and individuals espouse against the saving of our country. Do not even give them the time of day, much less an argument.

They have proven themselves to be unworthy of debate, discussion, and certainly unworthy of any action for the good of the Union.

By the time we accomplish all that, it’ll be election time.

At which point we will know EXACTLY whom to vote for and whom to vote against.

And belive me when I tell you this:

We WILL have the power at that point in time to elect CITIZENS with the good of our country at the forefront of their purposes, to the detriment of their own personal wants.

ARISE ye freedmen! And return to your rightful seat of freedom.

Farmer on July 1, 2011 at 7:54 PM

Ignore the debt limit and business’s will ignore 941 deposits and choke off all government monies.

ColdWarrior57 on July 1, 2011 at 7:56 PM

ARISE ye freedmen! And return to your rightful seat of freedom.

Farmer on July 1, 2011 at 7:54 PM

You know you’re competing with Benson reruns, right?

Mason on July 1, 2011 at 8:00 PM

Please do, please ignore the debt ceiling.

Speakup on July 1, 2011 at 8:02 PM

r keller on July 1, 2011 at 7:30 PM
Farmer on July 1, 2011 at 7:54 PM

It is now or never, as Farmer suggests. If we lose either way, as you suggest r keller, we may as well lose going out with a fight.

GaltBlvnAtty on July 1, 2011 at 8:05 PM

Farmer: You cited the sections of Article XIV that these clowns are attempting to twist and subvert for their own nefarious purposes. In fact, it is the weasel Geithner, who first proposed this strategy.

Jonah Goldberg at “The Corner” cites a columnist from The Examiner, who explains the knavery of Geithner further. Geithner does not distinguish the obligations of our interest payments from other expenditures in the budget. In fact, Geithner makes all of those expenditure promises of equal weight.

Conn Carroll at the Examiner writes:

Geithner has made it clear in earlier letters to the Senate that he considers all federal government obligations (Social Security payments, ethanol subsidy payments, interest payments on Treasury securities, etc.) completely equal. According to Geithner’s logic, a failure to pay California millions of dollars for their high-speed rail project would be the same as missing interest payments to bond holders. So, even though the Treasury Department could easily pay the $29 billion in August interest payments with the estimated $172.4 billion it will receive in revenue, thus avoiding default on the public debt, Geithner appears to be arguing the 14th amendment allows him to pay all of the federal government’s bills regardless of where Congress set the debt limit.

Section 4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

Oh and for good measure, here’s Section 5:

Section 5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.

Jonah asks:

I’m no Constitutional lawyer, but doesn’t all that stuff about “by law” and “The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation…” suggest it’s at least an open question whether the Secretary of the Treasury can do this? I’m trying to be generous here because I feel like I’m missing something. But on its face, this maneuver sounds like the mother of all nuclear options.

What Geithner, Schumer, and Obama are trying to do is to subvert the rule of law and our system of checks and balances in order to continue to add to our debt.

Our Congresscritters, especially those in the Senate, had better get someone in their august bodies savvy enough about the Constitution to nip this nonsense in the bud.

Responsible leaders would pay the interest on our debt to creditors and then begin to prioritize the payment of essential obligations. These priorities should be subject to review by our elected representation.

onlineanalyst on July 1, 2011 at 8:18 PM

So, any liberals here?

Can we get a list of what unilateral powers a President is perfectly allowed to use to pass laws, control the economy, go to war, and do whatever the hell else he wants?

I’d like this list before the next Republican President who “is a fascist dictator like Hitler” for doing less than this…

gekkobear on July 1, 2011 at 8:36 PM

Market Ticker asks a provocative question whether Treasury has already defaulted.
http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=189249

onlineanalyst on July 1, 2011 at 8:38 PM

What Geithner, Schumer, and Obama are trying to do is to subvert the rule of law and our system of checks and balances in order to continue to add to our debt.

onlineanalyst on July 1, 2011 at 8:18 PM

Precisely. Obamao is not interested in preserving the credit rating of the US. He is just angry that his credit card has been cancelled.

pedestrian on July 1, 2011 at 8:43 PM

If Obama is reelected and taxes go up, I’m moving to Israel.

jawkneemusic on July 1, 2011 at 6:41 PM

I’ve contemplated doing the same…but it’s a dreadful choice to have to make because it’ll be a one-way trip. Like heading for the escape pods from a crippled spaceship – once you go, you probably aren’t coming back, and there’ll likely be nothing to come back to even if you can.

Uncle Sams Nephew on July 1, 2011 at 8:46 PM

onlineanalyst on July 1, 2011 at 8:18 PM wrote:

Our Congresscritters, especially those in the Senate, had better get someone in their august bodies savvy enough about the Constitution to nip this nonsense in the bud.

Responsible leaders would pay the interest on our debt to creditors and then begin to prioritize the payment of essential obligations. These priorities should be subject to review by our elected representation.

With all due respect and thanks for your bringing the Secretary of the Treasury into the mix, I must take umbrage with the phrase,

…had better get someone…

.

WE are that someone. WE are responsible for the function of our country, WE are the ones to whom we must turn, WE are the only remaining bulwark of freedom and responsibility within our country, and perhaps (though heaven forbid) the entire world.

Should WE, The People, fail in our sacred duty to God, our families, and our country, we have no further recourse, and are FINISHED as free men.

I have suggested, above, a beginning. I would further suggest that a List Of Grievances be created with which to confront and demand redress from our “leaders” and their thieving minions.

WE, The People, have earned that right in blood, and to shirk the exercise of that right is to heap shame and scorn upon those whose blood was shed to obtain and protect those freedoms.

Not, of course, to mention that we would become no more than slaves to indifferent masters whose cruelty toward us will know no bounds.

NO MORE!

No less than FIVE MILLION AMERICANS in front of the White House, the Congress, and the Supreme Court in September, 2012 for the reading of our grievances and our call for unmitigated redress.

Farmer on July 1, 2011 at 8:49 PM

Farmer: I understand your call for us citizens to mobilize. Right now, though, we can pressure those members of the House and Senate to stand up a champion our Constitution. After all, we live in a representative republic.

I think that there are a number serving in Congress with backbone. We need to let them know that we have their backs, but we will oust them if they do not deliver what they swore to uphold.

onlineanalyst on July 1, 2011 at 8:56 PM

onlineanalyst:

Here is what I outlined, above, in order of performance:

First, exhort your representatives to stand firm, to hold to the line they’ve drawn, with no thought of any compromise on the debt issue.

Second, exhort, in no uncertain terms, the leadership on BOTH sides of the aisle to forgo their persons in order to save the Union.

Third, begin to assemble those who would, indeed, march upon the Capitol, and march upon the White House, and march upon the Supreme Court in a MASSIVE show of the ACTUAL Will Of The People.

As you can see, exhortation, unheeded, would lead to petition by march.

Farmer on July 1, 2011 at 9:16 PM

The debt ceiling was raised several times under President Bush. How did Schumer and the Democrats handle it then?

OxyCon on July 1, 2011 at 9:19 PM

Did Treasury Just Strategically (Intentionally) Default?

That’s a default, and it instantaneously destroys both the claim that such activity is not “selective” or, if you prefer, “strategic” and it also destroys the argument that Medicare and Social Security Trust fund “debt” – not just public debt – is subject to the 14th Amendment and thus is “protected” against the Treasury choosing to blow it off.

Rae on July 1, 2011 at 9:22 PM

If Obama is reelected and taxes go up, I’m moving to Israel.

jawkneemusic on July 1, 2011 at 6:41 PM

If Obama has his way, there will be no Israel.

Tasha on July 1, 2011 at 9:59 PM

I think the dirty little secret here is hat the GOP wouldn’t mind if OBama just raised the debt ceiling. It would keep them from having to make any really hard choices.

Hal_10000 on July 1, 2011 at 10:19 PM

Good point!..It is starting to look that way..GOP has to raise He!! about this..:)

Dire Straits on July 1, 2011 at 6:30 PM

Agreed, unfortunately when the GOP raises hell they sound like the guy who whines that his slice of office birthday cake is too small.

Threshing Flora on July 1, 2011 at 10:22 PM

So, any liberals here?

gekkobear on July 1, 2011 at 8:36 PM

Not today. It’s the first Friday of the month and food stamps are in.

BruthaMan on July 1, 2011 at 10:31 PM

Progressives that control both Parties want Congress to be irrelevant to facilitate the Chavez wannabe we have in the Oval.

Truthfully Schumer is right. With the Executive Order power the Presidency has we could lose the veneer of a Republic with one “emergency” or a stroke of Obamas Auto-Pen.

Until the moment he leaves office he is the DOTUS!!

PappyD61 on July 1, 2011 at 10:31 PM

Costa Rica? Chile?

francesca on July 1, 2011 at 10:32 PM

……IF he leaves office.

And the Ruling Class has Cuomo or Rahm Emmanuel to finish off America in 2016 if it survives Obama.

PappyD61 on July 1, 2011 at 10:35 PM

Someone has to cut the credit card, who will it be? I saw an interview with Geitner, where the interviewer tried to pin him down on how much they should raise the debt ceiling and he wouldn’t give a figure, but she kept pressing so, he finally said, “Well I guess it depends on how fast they want to do it again!!!” So, that’s his mentality going in on this so how much do you really believe this administration is going to compromise?

If it’s truly Congress that appropriates money, the executive being able to raise the debt limit on their own sounds a little crazy to me but lawyers never cease to amaze me with their crazy interpretations of the law and the constitution. Obama and company have raised that interpretation level way up there lately so who knows.

Vote Republican and only be called a racist one more time.

bflat879 on July 1, 2011 at 10:52 PM

I heard what the GOP numbers they are “demanding”…..2 Trillion….OVER TEN YEARS!!!!!

What a bunch of slags!!!!!

PappyD61 on July 1, 2011 at 11:05 PM

Dems are discussing whether WH can ignore the debt ceiling

Eight pages of comments on a thread about Bachmann supposedly trying to mimic Palin…this thread will be lucky to break two…strange times.

equanimous on July 1, 2011 at 11:24 PM

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