Petraeus, military experts not real thrilled with Obama’s withdrawal plan
posted at 6:55 pm on June 23, 2011 by Allahpundit
Wars will come and go, but you only get one chance at reelection.
Senior White House officials wanted all of the 33,000 U.S. “surge” troops to withdraw from Afghanistan by next spring. Gen. David Petraeus, the top U.S. commander in Kabul, was adamant they stay until the end of 2012. The deadlock was broken by outgoing Defense Secretary Robert Gates, who sold Obama and his top civilian aides on a compromise plan that will leave most of the reinforcements in Afghanistan through next September but ensure they’re back well before the November elections…
The debate effectively boiled down to a matter of months. Petraeus agreed that 10,000 troops could be safely withdrawn this year, but he wanted to keep some of the remaining 23,000 troops in Afghanistan until the end of 2012 and to have the flexibility to extend some of their tours into early 2013 if conditions deteriorated, according to officials with knowledge of the deliberations. Obama’s civilian advisers, pointing to intelligence assessments showing that the U.S. had killed 20 of al-Qaida’s top 30 leaders in the region, wanted the final 23,000 surge troops to leave Afghanistan next spring, with the last of the forces returning home roughly around March.
For nearly two weeks, neither side budged. Petraeus made it clear he opposed beginning the drawdown during the summer, traditionally the time of Afghanistan’s most intense fighting, according to an official familiar with his thinking. The general wanted his successor, Marine Lt. Gen. John Allen, to be able to move troops from southern Afghanistan, where coalition forces have pushed the Taliban out of many of their former strongholds, to eastern Afghanistan, where conditions have been deteriorating for months. Such a move would take time, and Petraeus argued that the surge troops should be kept in Afghanistan through the end of the year to ensure they had enough time to mount a full counterinsurgency campaign in eastern Afghanistan.
Two officers with ties to Petraeus confirmed for National Journal that he disagreed with Gates’s compromise plan for the surge troops, and another official said, tartly, ‘No one is talking about succeeding or winning… the phrase [Wednesday night] was bringing this war to a ‘responsible’ conclusion. I’m not really sure what that means.” What it means, apparently, is that instead of keeping troops in the south to hold off the Taliban while NATO’s offensive against the Haqqani network in the east begins, it’s now more of an either/or decision. Which is to say, instead of clearing and holding territory, soon we’ll be back to playing whack-a-mole. And while the difference between the Obama/Gates plan and Petraeus’s recommendation might not seem large — all surge troops out by September 2012 instead of early 2013 — it does have battlefield consequences:
“[P]utting a September 2012 expiration tag on the rest of the surge raises real concerns,” added [former Afghanistan commander] General [David] Barno, now a senior fellow at the Center for a New American Security, a policy research center. “That’s the middle of the fighting season.”
Michael O’Hanlon, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institution, another policy research center, said the September pullout date really means that many of those troops will stop carrying out their missions months earlier.
The president’s timetable, he said, “will require troops to spend most of the summer on the downsizing effort when they arguably should spend most of the summer fighting and taking away safe havens from extremists.”
Mr. O’Hanlon and General Barno said it was hard to fathom the military logic of setting a withdrawal deadline for the surge right in the middle of the fighting season. “This is a rushed ending to what has been a fairly effective surge,” Mr. O’Hanlon said.
That last bit is the Times’s way of acknowledging that it’s no coincidence that O will have all surge troops out just two months before he meets the voters at the polls. Petraeus was asked about that, in fact, at today’s hearing to confirm his appointment as CIA chief. Here’s what happened, via NRO’s Dan Foster:
After Petraeus yielded that the Obama timeline poses a “greater risk to the accomplishment of the various objectives” of the war than options recommended by theater commanders, Sens. Rubio and McCain both tried to get Petraeus to explain why the September 2012 date — halfway through the “fighting season” — was chosen. Was there a military or strategic significance to that date? Petraeus replied that it wasn’t military conditions, but “risks having to do with other considerations” that led to the Obama administration’s decision. But he repeatedly refused to elaborate on what those other considerations are. I’ll give you three guesses.
The first two don’t count! As a gloss on the above, I recommend two short pieces from WaPo. The first comes from prominent hawk Robert Kagan, who asserts that the “entire military leadership believes the president’s decision is a mistake.” No names are offered, but given Kagan’s contacts in military circles and the fact that his take jibes with the Petraeus/Barno/O’Hanlon take, I don’t much doubt it. The second is from Richard Cohen, who sees last night’s speech as final confirmation of American decline and expects a Vietnam-style collapse in Afghanistan once we’re finally out, which seems eminently plausible to everyone except, I guess, Hamid Karzai. Don’t worry about him, though: He’s cagey enough to already be lining up new allies to fill the void once we’re gone. According to the AP, his inner circle of fundamentalist-nut advisors seem to have a fondness for Iran.
Here’s Petraeus at today’s hearing being a good soldier in downplaying his disagreement with Obama but acknowledging that the timeline for withdrawal is a tad more “aggressive” than he would have liked. Ironically, now that we’re moving away from counterinsurgency in Afghanistan and towards counterterrorism, that means greater responsibilities for the CIA and its drone campaign, both of which will soon be commanded by … David Petraeus.









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Ya think.
Philly on June 23, 2011 at 6:57 PM
He will risk anything and anyone to be re-elected
clnurnberg on June 23, 2011 at 6:59 PM
Correct.
Gob on June 23, 2011 at 7:01 PM
That whole country is FUBAR’ed. You can’t bring civilization there. It’s the Mojave desert of civilization.
Oil Can on June 23, 2011 at 7:01 PM
Del Dolemonte on June 23, 2011 at 7:03 PM
Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory all to get him re elected
Cripe….epic fail
cmsinaz on June 23, 2011 at 7:04 PM
+1 del….
cmsinaz on June 23, 2011 at 7:05 PM
Petraeus, military experts not real thrilled with Obama’s withdrawal plan
Thats because it’s not really a withdrawal plan–its a re-election plan.
KickandSwimMom on June 23, 2011 at 7:05 PM
If Obama’s daughters grow up to be normal rational Americans, can you imagine the shame they will experience the rest of their lives knowing their father is a Marxist traitor and did more damage to this country than any president ever?
csdeven on June 23, 2011 at 7:05 PM
Who cares what a bunch of generals think, PBHO regularly beats Jarrett at RISK so he obviously knows a thing or two about military strategy.
In fact, PBHO has ordered the army to move 4 divisions to Siam and is hoping to eventually move out from Yakutsk to take all of Asia.
Bishop on June 23, 2011 at 7:06 PM
If Obama’s daughters grow up to be normal rational Americans, can you imagine the shame they will experience the rest of their lives knowing their father is a Marxist traitor and did more damage to this country than any president ever?
csdeven on June 23, 2011 at 7:05 PM
I would like to believe they would think like that, but the odds aren’t very good considering the indoctrination they are getting from mommy and daddy…..
sandee on June 23, 2011 at 7:07 PM
Is Obama really this dumb? Or does he have alterior motives?
Tony737 on June 23, 2011 at 7:07 PM
Is Obama really this dumb? Or does he have alterior motives?
Tony737 on June 23, 2011 at 7:07 PM
He’s not dumb he’s calculating. It’s all about the election. Everyone else can go to Hell….
sandee on June 23, 2011 at 7:09 PM
Wars will come and go, but you only get one chance at reelection.
Constitution doesn’t apply to Obama.
PappyD61 on June 23, 2011 at 7:12 PM
I hope all the ghosts of soldiers that gave their lives there and will give their lives there will forever haunt this non-commander in chief.
Tuari on June 23, 2011 at 7:18 PM
I pray for the day when someone with serious chutzpah quits in the name of patriotic descent to an admin. that is clearly doing everything in their power to undermine US national security.
katy on June 23, 2011 at 7:21 PM
This has Bill Daley’s finger prints all over it. This and the release of oil for the strategic reserve driving the price of gas down at the station. Daley’s going to do his best to get Obama reelected. What’s the bright side to these turn of events? It means Jerrett is being marginalized in the White House. Thank You Lord.
Dr Evil on June 23, 2011 at 7:21 PM
Palin/Petreaus 2012!
milemarker2020 on June 23, 2011 at 7:23 PM
What an arrogant a$$hole. This has politics written all over it. He’ll do what he wants , when he wants, whatever he wants. The laws and Costitution do not apply.
rjoco1 on June 23, 2011 at 7:25 PM
Obama isn’t dumb, he’s just willing to lose legions to get reelected. Just imagine him in a toga and it all becomes clear stomping around his Roman palace. Soldiers will be dead or crippled and worse case he’ll leave office with billions. Classic narcissism that can’t ever be wrong, even against our greatest general. The general is worried about his country and troops,Obama is worried about his army of one.
Hening on June 23, 2011 at 7:26 PM
He screwed up on a Medal of Honor Recipient; BIGTIME
aquaviva on June 23, 2011 at 7:27 PM
An unsuccessful one term president? “I hope he fails”. and seems like he is on the way, out.
Applying the Rush Liberal Theorem.
Caststeel on June 23, 2011 at 7:27 PM
Me and thee. The day of resignations for principled reasons seems long gone.
rrpjr on June 23, 2011 at 7:27 PM
Holy crap. His parents must be mortified.
Crickets from the MSM.
Knucklehead on June 23, 2011 at 7:30 PM
The guy’s worse than the caricature they tried to make out of Dan Quayle. You don’t get things like this wrong.
rrpjr on June 23, 2011 at 7:35 PM
Oh. My. God…
Words fail me on this a$$!!!
katy on June 23, 2011 at 7:36 PM
aquaviva on June 23, 2011 at 7:27 PM
This is unbelievable. I’ve said from his first day in office that he doesn’t prepare. His ceremony signing the order to close Gitmo was comical. How about his toast to the Queen. He is a lazy bast@#d. This is soooo embarrasing.
rjoco1 on June 23, 2011 at 7:37 PM
Yeah I was just about to post that MoH F-up.
Unbelievable. What If Bush Did That? Or Palin? Or any other Repub?
juliesa on June 23, 2011 at 7:38 PM
They wouldn’t. That’s the difference.
katy on June 23, 2011 at 7:41 PM
America would have been better of with a June 2012 deadline than the September one. With a June deadline A’stan would be clearly exposed as being on a road back to Tolly Ban Hell. Obama and the Dems would be crucified by the images.A September deadline provides what Kissinger called a decent interval.The truth of the disaster will not be known by the elections.So I’m guessing Obama had no intention of holding to a June deadline and now he looks like a compromiser.
xkaydet65 on June 23, 2011 at 7:52 PM
You sank my battleship.
John the Libertarian on June 23, 2011 at 7:52 PM
So Afghanistan goes under the bus in the interests of Obama’s re-election hopes. All that blood and treasure…
If we leave too soon, we will wind up going back, or being very, very sorry we didn’t get the job done the first time. As soon as we are gone, al Qaeda and the Taliban will be back. Within a few years, they will be launching attacks again.
But the election will be over by then…
novaculus on June 23, 2011 at 7:56 PM
LoL!..I still have that game..:)
PS..I still have my Kerplunk game also..If my mom has not cleaned out the attic of her house!..:)
Dire Straits on June 23, 2011 at 8:05 PM
Petraeus belongs in Leavenworth.
HalJordan on June 23, 2011 at 8:07 PM
Sometime in the future … …
Faced with an ineffective and corrupt Afghanistan government, an extremely ineffective Afghan Army, continuing failure to win primitive Islamic “Hearts and Minds” and “Unicorns and Flowers” and with no end in sight (Michael Yon says it may take 100 years), fatigue and deteriorating morale among the over used and abused American troops (who must now operate under ROE that do not put very much value at all on their lives) who were given the job of bringing Afghan Muslims into at least the eighteenth century, resistance to continue the war on the part of the American people, and a rebellion in Congress with a threat to cut off funding, a reluctant second term President Barack Hussein Obama finally agreed to bring American forces home.
The failure of the Afghanistan war supporters to admit that President Barack Hussein Obama and David Howell Petraeus’s Afghanistan Islamic nation building occupation policies had been ill advised and a profound failure would have a huge impact on their psyches and its impact would be manifest in their desire to involve the American nation and it’s military in yet another war and Islamic nation building occupation that they felt could be won this time thus bringing them vindication.
Many Islam ignorant internet web sites and Islam ignorant radio talk shows would support the false idea that President Barack Hussein Obama and David Howell Petraeus’s Islamic nation building policies had been going very well and with just a little more time and just a few more tens of thousand of still more American troops and just a little more surging and a little more COIN’ing and a little more stay the course the Afghanistan Islamic nation building occupation would have resulted in the building of a successful democratic, rule of law Afghanistan nation that would be an ally in the war against terror and serve as a shining example for the rest of the Middle East.
They believed that President Barack Hussein Obama and David Howell Petraeus’s Afghanistan Islamic nation building occupation policies had been visionary and brilliant and would have soon succeeded, except for being betrayed at home by the likes of Diana West and Jed Babin, the infamous ‘Stab in the Back’ theory. (Similar to the myth and betrayal theory [Dolchstosslegende] popular in Germany in the period after World War I which attributed Germany’s defeat to a number of domestic betrayals instead of failed geostrategy.)
This ‘Stab in the Back’ theory would become hugely popular among many Islam ignorant internet web sites and Islam ignorant radio talk show hosts who found it impossible to accept the fact that President Barack Hussein Obama and David Howell Petraues’s Afghanistan Islamic nation building occupation policies had been an utter disaster.
During the actual Afghanistan Islamic nation building fiasco, many of the Islam ignorant had already became obsessed with this idea, especially laying blame on what they called “traitors”, “White flag wavers”, “defeatist cut and runners” and “surrender monkeys” in America for undermining the Afghanistan Islamic nation building effort. To the Islam ignorant, and so many of their followers their fellow Americans, the clear majority of whom did not support President Barack Husein Obama and David Howell Petraues’s Afghanistan Islamic nation building policies, would become known as the ‘Defeatist Criminals.’
HalJordan on June 23, 2011 at 8:11 PM
Dunno about the rest of you…but I’m long past giving a rat’s arse what Betrayus and the ‘experts’ think.
End this madness and take the lessons learned to heart for next time.
Uncle Sams Nephew on June 23, 2011 at 8:13 PM
It’s just too damn bad that the military recommendations don’t mesh with the political needs of Whistletooth. He’s got to get the withdrawal going now…..so, we lose a few more troops and a couple of more areas in the war zone, screw it!! Whistletooth has an election to worry about!!!!
PaCadle on June 23, 2011 at 8:18 PM
He screwed up on a Medal of Honor Recipient; BIGTIME
- aquaviva on June 23, 2011 at 7:27 PM
Holy crap.
That should be a “dude” article.
Tony737 on June 23, 2011 at 8:45 PM
wow. just wow.
ted c on June 23, 2011 at 8:47 PM
I hope that GEN Petraeus will suddenly remove himself from an appointment from this Jackass. He’s a brilliant man…surely he knows that Dear Leader is parking him on the sidelines for the election?
Dingbat63 on June 23, 2011 at 8:53 PM
This troop draw down is to bring back the One’s disaffected base and is part of his re-election strategy.. Obama still has an a re-election ace-in-the-hole which may work with a certain element of guilt-ridden whites. Look for this:
“Most presidents get re-elected. Could it be that my re-election is in jeopardy because, although its OK to have a black for one term to “prove a point”, “certain elements” don’t want to see a black get a second chance. I know there are decent whites out there who will stop this racist attempt to defeat me- so let’s all join together-whites, blacks and Asians to help stamp out this bigotry and vote for me with your consciences clear.
MaiDee on June 23, 2011 at 9:15 PM
He is the most lazy-ass president we have ever had. He works 9:30 to 4pm when he’s at his best, with a long lunch break, and an average of two White House shakers a week. This is the first real job he has ever had, so even this is a real burden for him.
slickwillie2001 on June 23, 2011 at 9:17 PM
Praetorean Guard
Petraeus
Petraeusan Guard?
BobMbx on June 23, 2011 at 9:19 PM
I wonder who all those returning soldiers will be voting for?
JavelinaBomb on June 23, 2011 at 9:24 PM
You should be banned again. I am so sick of your childish disrespect.
Ed or Allah, please, sent this idiot and all of his sockpuppets packing…
Again…
hawkdriver on June 23, 2011 at 9:41 PM
Definitely a thread of it’s own.
hawkdriver on June 23, 2011 at 9:45 PM
What Hawk said.
Dingbat63 on June 23, 2011 at 9:51 PM
I also “disrespect” Obama … and Pelosi … and Reid … and … Holder … and Gore. I “disrespect” a lot of people on the national scene. Is that childish? Do you respect Obama? The others? Who are you to tell me who I can, or can not, “disrespect”? This is “patriotism” on the Russian Plan … or the Monarchy Plan. This kind of “patriotism” is a bastard “patriotism”, a burlesque, a satire, and of all things is most foreign and alien to America.
HalJordan on June 23, 2011 at 9:51 PM
Again, what Hawk said. This person is off their meds.
Dingbat63 on June 23, 2011 at 9:54 PM
WILDERS ACQUITTED!
I am sure that David “HOLY QUR’AN” Petraeus will … … not be amused.
HalJordan on June 23, 2011 at 9:58 PM
Brilliant retort! You are qualified to fill in for Kieth Olbermann when he goes on vacation.
HalJordan on June 23, 2011 at 10:01 PM
Is Petraeus an Islamic Tool?
Is Petraeus an Islamic Tool? part 2
Here’s a plan Gen. Petraeus should be able to get behind: A new battle strategy, maybe a Kilcullen special, for him to join forces with Iran to once and for all nuke Israel and its genocidal apartment houses out of existence. That, according to his own lights, is sure to keep American troops safe in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Heck, it would win the war — or at least the jihad.
HalJordan on June 23, 2011 at 10:06 PM
“The dhimmi-hostage message carried by Gen.Petraeus being that Israel building 1,600 apartments in Jerusalem places US troops’ lives in danger in the wider region (Iraq and Afghanistan). Such appeasement, this time at the expense of the Israelis, will only embolden all of our jihadist enemies to make more and more outrageous demands.”
Has anyone seen Obama’s associates, Jeremiah Wright and David Petraeus at the same time?
HalJordan on June 23, 2011 at 10:10 PM
Oh my, oh my, I have done it again. I just “disrespected” Jeremiah Wright now too. My bad.
HalJordan on June 23, 2011 at 10:12 PM
So Obama is willing to ignore military advice and risk the lives of American soldiers for a perceived political advantage???
Evil as well as incompetent: this is truly the smallest man ever to set foot in Washington DC!!!
landlines on June 23, 2011 at 10:23 PM
By making the presidential call, over ruling his advidors/generals recommendations, Obama owns the good/necessary Afghan war.
Just like he owns the economics.
There is no room for him to continue the “I inherited this ….” sorry excuse.
Sir Napsalot on June 23, 2011 at 10:46 PM
You do more damage than good. Truth be know, I have more respect for liberals. I alluded to the point last night. They have an ideology that drives their one-sided view of the military and it’s use abroad. You seem to be driven by some misplaced belief in the superiority of your own intelligent.
hawkdriver on June 23, 2011 at 10:52 PM
intelligence…
MB4, I’m done exchanging with you. Your use of a comment from me days before I left combat to prove your point, makes me hold you in utter contempt. You make me sick. What you write, makes me sick.
hawkdriver on June 23, 2011 at 10:55 PM
You said that before.
You made that comment of yours, saying I was right. I think you even said I was right about everything. I didn’t make your comment for you in any way, manner or form. I didn’t solicit it from you and certainly was not expecting it. I didn’t use jedi mind control on you. Perhaps you should pause and reflect and look inward. By all odds you must believe that at least much of what I say is mostly right or you wouldn’t get so very upset so many times. I hate to play shrink on you but this is rather like an abused wife who really knows that her husband is no good, and even on occasion will admit it, but then goes right back to defending him as she just has too much invested in the marriage.
HalJordan on June 23, 2011 at 11:13 PM
Recognizing the ever more obvious about the folly, and even counterproductiveness, of Great Islamic Society Nation Building, especially in Afcrapistan, as more and more Americans are doing, requires nothing more than casting off the bondage of politically correct notions.
HalJordan on June 23, 2011 at 11:21 PM
Ah back in better days when allies fought off the trolls like Norm Blitzer….
This song’s for you Hawk & Hal
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyaTIXdN5fI
Bradky on June 23, 2011 at 11:34 PM
Call me a crazy old fool if you will, but I still think that this Hawk fellow and this Hal fellow are the same person. A person who’s two sides are are war with each other. I just can not figure out which is the Ying and which is the Yang.
Sigmund on June 23, 2011 at 11:56 PM
You’re right. They come away from this bemoaning that they have never been proud of America.
csdeven on June 24, 2011 at 1:03 AM
Hal or sigmund or MB4 or whoever you are, you’re derranged and this is just sick even trying to engage you in this farce. This is some kind of sick game to you. Like Dakine, I’ll never understand how people can use these sites, make comments on these site without just representing who they are. You must fancy yourself as pretty clever and the rest of us pretty stupid to not see the same people showing up to either agree with your comments or play the stupid foil for you to debate back with. It’s all rather creepy.
And Brad, you can save yourself some time too. I simply don’t regard your comments. The whole draft canard you tried with the other commenter last night makes you unworthy of any serious consideration of your opinion. Like MB4, I’m sure you consider your thread debate rather clever. Act as though you’re seriously concerned about the troops, and assert that you support the draft to do it. And as far as linking to my comments agreeing with MB4. Big f*cking deal. It means nothing. We agreed that Norm Blitzer was an Azz. At this point and for all I know, Blitzer is one of MB4s sockpuppets. So sorry, but I’ll never know what song you linked to. It doesn’t mean anything to me.
The only reason I even bothered with this last comment is because of the skin my friends and I have in the game. MB4, if you really are a VN vet. Good on ya for serving. You got my respect if it’s true. I disagree with your assessment of it’s effects. I disagree that all those lives were in vain. So we disagree. There is something though about what you say and what you don’t say about the war in Viet Nam. Something hollow and not right. I came into the Army the year after the war in Viet Nam ended and you don’t regard the war like any vet I know from that war. So, I’ll just be satisfied to be confused about what your particular truth is. And again, it doesn’t really matter. As far as Afghanistan goes, you can have you opinion about the war. But I can tell you your opinion is as far off as it can be. Almost nothing you state about the war is correct. And a good majority of what you link to is opinion. And I take it personal because Afghanistan and Iraq were my wars. I have, as I’ve told you before, lost friends. I’ve lost comrades from the Iraqi and Afghani militaries that were my friends. The Afghani Commando I spoke of, who was killed by an IED not long before I returned home, became my responsibility to retrieve in the middle of the night about six hours after he was killed. The confusion and haste of the soldiers who brought him to and put him in the back of my helicopter left him only covered in a blanket and not in a body bag. My crew chief and door gunner, who also knew this man from our missions, were treated to the wind uncovering him during our flight and having to see him. Then all of us had to help clean the back of the helicopter out after we dropped his body off at his base.
I’m not trying to impress you with stories because I doubt it would mean anything to you anyways. But there were hundreds of nights like this. You seemed to allude to the fact that you didn’t shoot your howitzer much while you were in Viet Nam. Well, this was our life for the better part of a year; day and night for my detachment. And there are thousands and thousands of other stories of men and women for have committed themselves to service in this war on Global Terror that are even more brutal than what my men endured. So, you can dismiss it all unimportant, but just know that what you argue is all hypotheticals and opinion while it for us, is the reality of our recent lives. And what you are asking of men and women who have fought in these theaters is to just concede that these efforts didn’t matter.
I can’t think of anything else that would be fit to offer as logic to you. So, please, link one more time to the comment from before my redeployment and we’ll certainly be done with this all. I’m sure you filed that away the night I wrote it and ignored anything I’ve said since. But we’re done. And I’m taking a long break from Hot Air myself. You should know though that most of these people you deride, you aren’t fit to even offer opinion of. Not the least of which is David Petraeus. There are very few people that I could honestly say that I hated to include the men I’ve had to kill. But what you do here on Hot Air for sport is just reprehensible.
hawkdriver on June 24, 2011 at 1:20 AM
Well, that didn’t even last as long as Michele Moore’s New Years Resolution to cut down on cheeseburgers.
HalJordan on June 24, 2011 at 2:18 AM
Actually, for a time I was one of the more “gung-ho” ones, but I recovered. Read the U.S. Army War Collage Quarterly 1967-1968 some time. Also read H.R. McMaster’s book on Vietnam and all the lies.
It has gone on for almost 10 years. Officially, the longest war we have ever had. It was escalated more than 2 fold by Obama. Bush had around 45,000 troops there and Obama LBJ-like escalated it to 100,000 and will apparently lower that to 70,000 [still 1 1/2 times what Bush had] and then it will stay there … … … indefinitely? And for what benefit that can possibly justify all the Blood and Treasure? And still more Blood and Treasure? If by some miracle Afcrapistan becomes a successful, stood-up, Islamic state, is that even a good thing for Infidels?
As I said, you are very “vested”. Understandable, but it clouds the vision of the larger picture. Great efforts and sacrifice do not necessarily mean great results. You can’t spin Gold from Straw.
Would it be better for still more American troops to die for Islamic Nation Building? Can you actually believe that the Afghanistan “Saga” will turn out well even if “we” stay there another 10 years, which I don’t think the American people will put up with? Even Iraq looks more iffy all the time. “There has never been a protracted war from which a country has benefited” – Sun Tzu
This is America, not North Korea and I see Petraeus for what he is. You see him though rose colored glasses.
HalJordan on June 24, 2011 at 2:55 AM
Even the one mostly agreed on “Good War”/”Sucessfull” war, WWII, was not exactly entirely successful.
We have had a victory over the Germans and disarmed them, but we have failed in the liberation of Europe. We have lost the war! – George S. Patton
HalJordan on June 24, 2011 at 3:05 AM
1967-19681996-1997HalJordan on June 24, 2011 at 3:07 AM
Well Hawk since we are going to part company for your hiatus from HA or whatever you call it I’ll be as blunt. I’ve told you before I take what you say at face value but you don’t seem to think the same of me. Saying I don’t care about the troops is just your way of trying to be superior or something in your mind because I don’t use the internet to bolster my ego or self worth quite like you do to be sure. For a fellow vet to say that about another is the real reprehensible statement.
Let’s not forget which of us felt a need to use a handle that made sure everyone knew they were in the service and seemingly enjoyed all the “god bless you Hawk” statements and attention showered on you through the years as well as the moral superiority card you played. Kind of gave people the idea that your opinion “must” be respected because gosh darn it he’s one of the troops. Unlike Hal or I you used it like a crutch to avoid actually supporting your assertions with facts or logic. Some use the internet to bump up their self-esteem and I’m certain that is the case with you. Why else would someone who just got married spend the wee hours of the evening chatting with people he doesn’t even know?
I’m sincerely happy for you that you are taking a break from the net or this site. Read a book called “The Shallows”, All Alone Together by Turkle, or “The Cult of the Amateur” by Keen and you will see how deep you’ve let yourself get sucked in to an alternate universe to which you are emotionally attached to.
So good luck with your endeavors Hawk. I’ve been civil to a fault with you and won’t let this last post to you end with snark or ridicule as you have taken the opportunity to do on a few occasions. Mutual courtesy is not your strong suit – good luck Hawk and enjoy the “real life”. You owe it to yourself.
Brad
Bradky on June 24, 2011 at 6:08 AM
I think it would have been appropriate if they all would have gotten up and walked out on the fucken asshole. Total disrespect to everyone in Uniform both present and past. He tried to be CUTE funny and did exactly what he did with “fixing” the economy. FAILED!!!!
ColdWarrior57 on June 24, 2011 at 11:31 AM
Would you do HA a courtesy and be done ‘exchanging’ (ie; flinging cr@p) with everyone else?
Seriously what’s happened to you? Did an IED take out part of your brain?
Uncle Sams Nephew on June 24, 2011 at 1:18 PM