Who was the night’s biggest winner?

posted at 10:05 am on June 14, 2011 by Ed Morrissey

After writing a curmudgeonly rant (or two) about one of the worst debate productions ever seen, I suppose I owe a word or two about how the candidates did.  Frankly, none of them turned in an inspiring or inspired performance, although all of them did at least a competent job.  I spent two hours looking for a breakout candidate or a charismatic performance that would stand out and frame the rest of the primary race.  Instead, perhaps as a result of the silliness and grunting foisted on us by CNN and its moderator John King, none of them stood out much from the others, and none of them did much damage to themselves or each other.

I’ll offer my thoughts on each candidate in no particular order:

  • Mitt Romney – He came into the debate as a weak frontrunner, and he went out the same way.  He did well, and just as he did in 2007-8, came across as an affable, competent executive and speaker.  He had the most to lose in the debate and managed to protect his position, in part because of the efforts of the other Republicans to attack Barack Obama rather than each other.  He stumbled only once, in saying that the Afghans needed to liberate themselves from the Taliban, who are, er, also Afghans.  Otherwise, he did well and reminded everyone why he was John McCain’s strongest challenger in the last cycle.  He was, as always, cool and collected.
  • Tim Pawlenty – Pawlenty will get crucified for his refusal to back up his “ObamneyCare” attack from a few days ago when faced with Romney on the stage, and in part deservedly so — but only because the candidates agreed to the sound-bite format in the first place.  On policy and substance, Pawlenty did fine, but he needed to outperform Romney to start building traction early.  At best this was an opportunity missed, and a reminder that it’s going to be tough to beat Romney in the debates.
  • Michele Bachmann – Bachmann’s good performance seems to have caught everyone by surprise except me.  The media paints Bachmann as a wild-eyed nut, but I’ve known her for years, and she’s very sharp and quick-witted.  She didn’t make any mistakes, and perhaps more than anyone last night allowed her personality to shine, impressing even Dana Milbank.  She can play with the big boys, as she will prove again and again, but other than the surprise factor, Bachmann turned in a solid but not breakout performance.  She’ll get a decent bump in polling after last night.
  • Newt Gingrich – Gingrich had nothing to lose last night and let it rip.  As always, he provided excellent analysis and spin, but Gingrich has a problem in debate formats, which is that he doesn’t like to be challenged — and it shows.  He looked angry and argumentative, and at times almost resentful.  He didn’t demonstrate the kind of poise that usually impresses in this format, and while some of that might be welcome in a hostile environment, Gingrich didn’t apply his annoyance where it would have counted … at the inane “This or That” questions.  It was impossible for Gingrich to hurt himself, but he didn’t exactly help himself either, especially when he appeared to endorse McCarthyism.
  • Herman Cain – Other than his attempt to defuse the issue of Muslims working in his government, Cain did a pretty good job, but nowhere near the blockbuster performance the last time.  That’s OK; it’s still early in the season for all of these candidates, and like college football, it’s the late losses that count, not the early ones.  He needs to regroup a little and try to muscle the conversation more towards his strengths on the economy and jobs, which CNN avoided like the plague last night to his disadvantage.
  • Rick Santorum – It’s been a while since I’ve seen Santorum in this context, and he looked and sounded good.  He also needs to muscle up a bit, but again, it’s early.  At times, Santorum seemed a little lost on stage, getting outshined by the other candidates.  It wasn’t memorable, but it’s a decent start.
  • Ron Paul – Well, if you like Ron Paul, you liked him last night, and if you don’t, you saw what you normally saw.  Other than Bachmann, he may have allowed more of his actual personality out than the other candidates, but again, that’s not necessarily a good thing for his electoral chances.  Paul offered a completely incoherent answer on emergency room treatment that ended up opposing attacks on the Catholic Church while offering the suggestion that Catholics fund indigent care.  On the other hand, he picked Blackberries over iPhones, so it’s a wash, I guess.

The biggest winner for me was None of the Above.  There is plenty of room for a charismatic, accomplished candidate to jump into this race and outshine the field as it stands at the moment.  For some that will be Sarah Palin, but I’d say that the 2-hour performance was a gilt-edged invitation to Rick Perry to join the field and command the stage.

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I’m no Gingrich fan but he and Cain are right, Ed. Asking questions to make sure someone you are thinking of appointing to your administration is a true supporter of the Constitution is NOT McCarthyism (regardless of what Truman did or what people think it led to in the 50s).

Greyledge Gal on June 14, 2011 at 10:41 AM

i agree. Any student of history during this time, & the time before, regarding the communist infiltration of this country knows what happened was necessary.
And it wasn’t a huge witch hunt.
It was a necessary ferreting out of subversives.
Communists were, & still ARE, our enemy.
But they have honed their message to a much more sophisticated slant.
When the the Wall fell, they had to have somewhere to go & rally to.
Many of them picked environmentalist causes.
Many just joined the Democratic cause.
Bcs ultra left wing Dems are communists, whether they truly identify themselves that way officially, secretly, or not.
True Democrats have let their party get hijacked by these nutjobs.
That is why we have this huge pool of independents I think.
Communism, we now know from history & declassified documents from the Cold War, was a REAL threat to the US.
It is perfectly legitimate to ask a person what they think of the Constitution, a document they must swear to uphold when they are sworn in for these offices they’re running for.

Badger40 on June 14, 2011 at 10:54 AM

So all you Perry supporters are ok with:

1- in-state tuition for illegal aliens?

2- mandating your young girls to be vaccinated with a questionalble vaccine?

I think the more we know of Perry, true conservatives will find him lacking. As Levin says, “full disclosure is hell”.

stenwin77 on June 14, 2011 at 10:33 AM

Just a reminder – Reagan, the greatest President of our generation, increased spending, signed amnesty, and enacted a machine gun ban.

Nobody’s perfect.

Nobody.

fossten on June 14, 2011 at 10:55 AM

I thought T-Paw had a pretty weak performance, but to dwell on that stupid ObamneyCare thing is ridiculous. Is that what debates are about now, who can come up with the sharpest zinger? T-Paw’s problem was that he rambled and talked around his answers. He wast he opposite of crisp.

Romney was very sharp. I think he looked the most prepared to take on PBHO in a debate. I think he did a good job of defusing the MassCare criticisms and turned it in to a waepon to use against PBHO.

I agree with you on Bachmann. I had discounted her, because I have her say some pretty wild things in the past. She did great last night and I now would consider her a viable candidate.

MJBrutus on June 14, 2011 at 10:55 AM

Obama IS beatable, and more so as we feel more and more pain directly attributable to the economic depression his policies have created.

Roy Rogers on June 14, 2011 at 10:50 AM

Already the one-term meme has begun..

..by The Pantload and his fans.

The War Planner on June 14, 2011 at 10:55 AM

All of your “hypotheticals” ignore the fact that none of your candidates can win in the South. If they can’t win here – they can’t get the nomination.

HondaV65 on June 14, 2011 at 10:52 AM

Oh noes! They can’t win the South! And all of one early primary takes place there, too!

By the way, I would hardly consider Minnesota to be “northeast.” But if you’re backward like that, I guess it’s an easy mistake to make.

KingGold on June 14, 2011 at 10:56 AM

No more lukewarm semi-conservatives. Desperate times require desperate measures.

We need another Reagan, but since there’s no one around to fit that particular bill, we must make the best of what we have.

Let’s persuade Mrs. Palin to quit it with the sidelines and jump into the mire with both boots. This country needs someone like her; we need someone who can dish out a spoonful or three of bad-tasting medicine that will be good for us in the long run. I have recently come to the conclusion that Sarah Palin is that someone. If she’s unselfish enough to bother with it, I will support her wholeheartedly through the long, agonizing, crazy-making process.

Again, huge appreciation toward WaPoo and NYfishwrapTimes for the brilliant exposé about Sarah’s genuineness and her guileless, heartfelt, and very effective leadership chops and superb management skills.

She’s the people person who might just be bold enough to transform D.C. into something that our forefathers might recognize.

Again, thanks to the NY Rag of Record and the D.C. birdcage liner.

hillbillyjim on June 14, 2011 at 10:57 AM

KingGold on June 14, 2011 at 10:56 AM

Of course it is in the NE. Why Ed can see the Statue of Liberty from his house :-)

MJBrutus on June 14, 2011 at 10:57 AM

Nobody’s perfect.

Nobody.

fossten on June 14, 2011 at 10:55 AM

There was One, but leftists crucified Him.
They continue their attacks to this day.

Roy Rogers on June 14, 2011 at 10:58 AM

If she’s unselfish enough to bother with it, I will support her wholeheartedly through the long, agonizing, crazy-making process.

hillbillyjim on June 14, 2011 at 10:57 AM

I don’t know, after reading that I’m beginning to think that maybe she’s too good for us.

MJBrutus on June 14, 2011 at 10:59 AM

Anyone who takes the time to study Bachmann’s background a bit will find there is a lot more substance than the media would ever mention.

Bishop on June 14, 2011 at 10:47 AM

Like Palin.
I am going to look into Bachmann more heavily now. I confess I haven’t really heard her much.

Badger40 on June 14, 2011 at 11:00 AM

This nomination is defintely a battle between the Washington insider RINOs & Lamestream media versus the Tea Partiers & true conservatives (whose 2 candidates BAchman & Cain) did better as a whole than Romney by himself….Just can’t quite get the trust thing going with him @ this point….
Where was Frank Luntz last night & why didn’t Fox have a panel to discuss???

huskerdiva on June 14, 2011 at 11:00 AM

The War Planner on June 14, 2011 at 10:55 AM

He’s hoping for sympathy

I feel more sympathy for the families he destroyed

Roy Rogers on June 14, 2011 at 11:00 AM

Everyone lost. Consenting to be a part of this MSM-orchestrated persiflage was debasing to one and all. I lost respect for everybody on stage.

rrpjr on June 14, 2011 at 11:02 AM

Like Palin.
I am going to look into Bachmann more heavily now. I confess I haven’t really heard her much.

Badger40 on June 14, 2011 at 11:00 AM

+1

huskerdiva on June 14, 2011 at 11:02 AM

..by The Pantload and his fans.

The War Planner on June 14, 2011 at 10:55 AM

Looks like internal polling must be showing great weakness.

Dr Evil on June 14, 2011 at 11:02 AM

Just a reminder – Reagan, the greatest President of our generation, increased spending, signed amnesty, and enacted a machine gun ban.

Nobody’s perfect.

Nobody.

fossten on June 14, 2011 at 10:55 AM

Absolutely true, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be fully aware of their flaws before we vote for them to be the president of the United States.

MadisonConservative on June 14, 2011 at 11:02 AM

I agree with you on Bachmann. I had discounted her, because I have her say some pretty wild things in the past. She did great last night and I now would consider her a viable candidate.

MJBrutus on June 14, 2011 at 10:55 AM

She’s viable, but she’s not gonna get the nomination. If she starts to get any serious VP run however, the drive-bys will attempt to Palinize her. She’s not the rock star Palin is, but she does pose a major threat in that she’s a conservative, pro-life, pro-Tea Party Republican woman.

Doughboy on June 14, 2011 at 11:04 AM

It does matter that he articulates certain principles like the philosophical and moral case for individual liberty and what the government has done to the financial system quite capably.

Then he starts yelling about the gold standard, the military-industrial complex, etc.

Good Lt on June 14, 2011 at 10:52 AM

This is what I see when I imagine Herr Doktor as President.

Perhaps a bit extreme but still…

catmman on June 14, 2011 at 11:05 AM

HAPPY FLAG DAY!!!

Yeah and it’s storming here so I can’t put my flag up.

Vince on June 14, 2011 at 11:07 AM

Isn’t Perry a giant open border proponent? Texas had more illegal immigration under his watch than anyone else.

Good luck winning the presidency with that record and 9% unemployment.

haner on June 14, 2011 at 11:09 AM

Obama Plays To Less Than Half-Empty Concert Hall Where Seats Were Only $44, Only 900 Out Of 2,200 Seats Sold…

ROFLMAO!!!!

We don’t need to “settle” for no steeenkin RINO’s!

Roy Rogers on June 14, 2011 at 11:09 AM

“Unelectable”

Have the trolls arrived yet?

VegasRick on June 14, 2011 at 11:10 AM

Good Lt on June 14, 2011 at 10:52 AM

Haven’t seen you in a while. Welcome back Lt!

MJBrutus on June 14, 2011 at 11:12 AM

Absolutely true, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be fully aware of their flaws before we vote for them to be the president of the United States.

MadisonConservative on June 14, 2011 at 11:02 AM

Fair enough, but ‘be fully aware of’ =/= constantly dwell on and bash over.

fossten on June 14, 2011 at 11:13 AM

I have given this some thought. I think Rush Limbaugh should sponsor a debate and be the moderator. We would really know how the candidates fare after 2 or 3 hours of a debate with a real conservative calling the shots.

karenhasfreedom on June 14, 2011 at 10:11 AM

I like that idea. Except I’d include other talk radio hosts like Dennis Prager, Glenn Beck, and Mark Levin. That would be a good panel.

Conservative Samizdat on June 14, 2011 at 11:14 AM

Haven’t seen you in a while. Welcome back Lt!

MJBrutus on June 14, 2011 at 11:12 AM

He was here all day yesterday. I guess you were too busy servicing csdeven to notice.

fossten on June 14, 2011 at 11:14 AM

He was here all day yesterday. I guess you were too busy servicing csdeven to notice.

fossten on June 14, 2011 at 11:14 AM

Stay classy as usual, fossten.

KingGold on June 14, 2011 at 11:15 AM

She’s viable, but she’s not gonna get the nomination. If she starts to get any serious VP run however, the drive-bys will attempt to Palinize her. She’s not the rock star Palin is, but she does pose a major threat in that she’s a conservative, pro-life, pro-Tea Party Republican woman.

Doughboy on June 14, 2011 at 11:04 AM

They tried to destroy her last fall, but failed.

fossten on June 14, 2011 at 11:16 AM

If she’s unselfish enough to bother with it, I will support her wholeheartedly through the long, agonizing, crazy-making process.

hillbillyjim on June 14, 2011 at 10:57 AM

I don’t know, after reading that I’m beginning to think that maybe she’s too good for us.

MJBrutus on June 14, 2011 at 10:59 AM

She is just who she appears to be; nothing more and nothing less. We would be lucky to get such a genuine person for our POTUS, especially considering the bogus pretender now holding the office.

One more sensible post from you, Brutus, and you’ll be eligible for the highly-prized Stopped-Clock Award, complete with trophy and two AA batteries.

hillbillyjim on June 14, 2011 at 11:16 AM

Tell you the truth I didn’t watch the debate and probably won’t watch one until at least December because it is just too early and the candidate will change by then.

JeffinSac on June 14, 2011 at 11:17 AM

Stay classy as usual, fossten.

KingGold on June 14, 2011 at 11:15 AM

Best keep your own yard clean.

Look, halfwit. This has been going on three days now. The vandalism I don’t mind, but at least act like you read a book every now and then.

The author’s name is spelled C.S. Lewis.

KingGold on June 9, 2011 at 4:16 PM

fossten on June 14, 2011 at 11:18 AM

She’s viable, but she’s not gonna get the nomination. If she starts to get any serious VP run however, the drive-bys will attempt to Palinize her. She’s not the rock star Palin is, but she does pose a major threat in that she’s a conservative, pro-life, pro-Tea Party Republican woman.

Doughboy on June 14, 2011 at 11:04 AM

Could I have a look at that crystal ball you have? If you’re saying that she won’t get the nomination because she’s like Palin, then I guess you are one of those guys that are saying Palin is unelectable. Right?

Same old, same old.

Vince on June 14, 2011 at 11:18 AM

Roy Rogers on June 14, 2011 at 11:09 AM

PBHO’s staffers will start offering free packs of smokes to local bums and vagrants to fill out the seats, like Chevy Chase had to do during his two week attempt to create a late night talk show.

Bishop on June 14, 2011 at 11:18 AM

Fair enough, but ‘be fully aware of’ =/= constantly dwell on and bash over.

fossten on June 14, 2011 at 11:13 AM

Same attitude McCain supporters had when people pointed out amnesty, CFR, global warming, anti-tax cuts, anti-interrogation, etc…

MadisonConservative on June 14, 2011 at 11:20 AM

I’d say that the 2-hour performance was a gilt-edged invitation to Rick Perry to join the field and command the stage.

Ed I hope you get the opportunity to chat with Perry and have a video with you. I submit the first question and I really am serious. Perry has been really good at a non-answer for a long time….

“Governor, with the issue of upwards of 12 million illegal aliens inside our borders, what is your plan to resolve this issue?”

Don’t let him just talk about what he has done, he’s been good about crime suppression and using resources to attack border crime, but I can not recall one time he has actually answered that question .. except to say it is a federal issue. So as president, how would he resolve that problem?

I’d like to know.

Texas Gal on June 14, 2011 at 11:20 AM

fossten on June 14, 2011 at 11:18 AM

Do you bookmark every thread in which you feel you’ve been wronged, or just the ones where you came up with some idiotic rejoinder which you repeat three or four times until even your fellow ‘nistas are tired of it?

Let me ask an honest question: do you consider yourself to be at all humorous or witty?

KingGold on June 14, 2011 at 11:21 AM

Same attitude McCain supporters had when people pointed out amnesty, CFR, global warming, anti-tax cuts, anti-interrogation, etc…

MadisonConservative on June 14, 2011 at 11:20 AM

You’re not seriously comparing Perry to McCain, are you?

fossten on June 14, 2011 at 11:21 AM

Do you bookmark every thread in which you feel you’ve been wronged, or just the ones where you came up with some idiotic rejoinder which you repeat three or four times until even your fellow ‘nistas are tired of it?

Let me ask an honest question: do you consider yourself to be at all humorous or witty?

KingGold on June 14, 2011 at 11:21 AM

Interesting from the guy who stalks me on every thread. Myopic hypocrite much?

fossten on June 14, 2011 at 11:22 AM

Vince on June 14, 2011 at 11:18 AM

I’m reminded of a “CT Yankee in King Arthur’s Court.” In that story, the natives think someone must be magical because he employed futuristic technology and knowledge that they lacked. In this case, when one applies logical reasoning to form an opinion about what will occur you attribute it to magic. There’s a reason for that.

MJBrutus on June 14, 2011 at 11:23 AM

Could I have a look at that crystal ball you have? If you’re saying that she won’t get the nomination because she’s like Palin, then I guess you are one of those guys that are saying Palin is unelectable. Right?

Same old, same old.

Vince on June 14, 2011 at 11:18 AM

I’ll jump in here. Palin is unelectable. Bachmann is electable.

If I had to choose between Palin and Bachmann, I’d vote Bachmann.

Conservative Samizdat on June 14, 2011 at 11:23 AM

For some that will be Sarah Palin, but I’d say that the 2-hour performance was a gilt-edged invitation to Rick Perry to join the field and command the stage.

I’m a Palinista, and I like Perry as well. I just don’t get the idea that if he declares Perry becomes some sort of instant juggernaut. I don’t think Palin or anyone else becomes an instant juggernaut, either.

pseudoforce on June 14, 2011 at 11:25 AM

Interesting from the guy who stalks me on every thread. Myopic hypocrite much?

fossten on June 14, 2011 at 11:22 AM

Who’s stalking whom now? You seem to enjoy threadjacking, vandalizing posts and nicks, and think you’re the funniest guy in the world for doing so.

P.S. “FIFY” is not a substitute for intelligent commentary.

KingGold on June 14, 2011 at 11:25 AM

Bishop on June 14, 2011 at 11:18 AM

DNC Holds Fundraising Event – At White House?

Laws and rules are for sissies

We need a non-RINO GOP that is in it, to win it.

Roy Rogers on June 14, 2011 at 11:25 AM

Palin is unelectable.

Conservative Samizdat on June 14, 2011 at 11:23 AM

I wish I had a dollar for every time that’s been typed here. I’d never have to work another day in my life.

Palin’s no more inherently unelectable than Romney, Bachmann or Pawlenty. Or Perry, for that matter. We don’t know that until we have, you know, primaries.

pseudoforce on June 14, 2011 at 11:27 AM

Who’s stalking whom now?

KingGold on June 14, 2011 at 11:25 AM

Um, check the thread. You’re stalking me.

I had no idea it was so easy to get under your skin.

I’ll try harder.

fossten on June 14, 2011 at 11:28 AM

Romney the runaway winner with Bachmann clearly in second. Pawlenty did well as did Newt. I like Santorum and Cain too. Heck I even found myself applauding Paul on his fiscal issues.

I know what Romney is, so there is really no need to study up on him. (same with Paul) My only question is who do I vote for in the primary? I need to hear more from the other 5 candidates. I was going to study up on Perry, but until he declares, I have enough studying to do on the other 5. I am leaning Pawlenty and Bachmann in no specific order.

csdeven on June 14, 2011 at 11:28 AM

You’re not seriously comparing Perry to McCain, are you?

fossten on June 14, 2011 at 11:21 AM

Beginning to, yes.

Seriously, people need to start being more skeptical of candidates when they show up, instead of embracing them so handily. If the criticism turns out to be either media narratives, or things that really don’t affect their positions or ideology, then we end up with someone like Palin that’s not as worrisome. However, leaping from Trump to Gingrich to Cain and onward…we should at least be ready to accept the truth about these people. They’re asking for a half a million dollars and the leadership of the most powerful country in the world. Vet them.

MadisonConservative on June 14, 2011 at 11:29 AM

So all you Perry supporters are ok with:

1- in-state tuition for illegal aliens?

2- mandating your young girls to be vaccinated with a questionalble vaccine?

Your 1st issue is legitimate and something he will have trouble defending. I’m a Perry supporter, but I strongly disagree with him on this.

Your 2nd point is highly misleading. No daughter had to get the vaccine if the parents didn’t want her to. Any parent could opt their child out of the vaccine. That little fact tends to be left out when people bring up this attack.

mcg0125 on June 14, 2011 at 11:29 AM

Palin’s no more inherently unelectable than Romney, Bachmann or Pawlenty. Or Perry, for that matter. We don’t know that until we have, you know, primaries.

pseudoforce on June 14, 2011 at 11:27 AM

This.

Badger40 on June 14, 2011 at 11:30 AM

Palin’s no more inherently unelectable than Romney, Bachmann or Pawlenty. Or Perry, for that matter. We don’t know that until we have, you know, primaries.

pseudoforce on June 14, 2011 at 11:27 AM

Palin would do very well in the primaries but she’ll get killed in the general election.

Conservative Samizdat on June 14, 2011 at 11:30 AM

Your 2nd point is highly misleading. No daughter had to get the vaccine if the parents didn’t want her to. Any parent could opt their child out of the vaccine. That little fact tends to be left out when people bring up this attack.

mcg0125 on June 14, 2011 at 11:29 AM

I have problems with all “opt out” programs. To me it should be an “opt in” program.

csdeven on June 14, 2011 at 11:31 AM

Your 2nd point is highly misleading. No daughter had to get the vaccine if the parents didn’t want her to. Any parent could opt their child out of the vaccine. That little fact tends to be left out when people bring up this attack.

mcg0125 on June 14, 2011 at 11:29 AM

If that is truly the case, then somebody needs to get all their propaganda straight.

Badger40 on June 14, 2011 at 11:31 AM

pseudoforce on June 14, 2011 at 11:25 AM

I think that Perry is known nationally, at least by reputation. His state has thrived as most of the rest the nation has suffered. I don’t think that there can be any doubt that he would be an instant contender if he gets in.

As for that other one, if one imagines her getting in, she will quickly move to her level of support, but I don’t see that changing much with time. Those who love her will continue to do so, but she won’t win over many converts. She has a high floor but a low ceiling.

MJBrutus on June 14, 2011 at 11:31 AM

fossten on June 14, 2011 at 11:28 AM

Sarah Palin is a laughingstock of a candidate, and wholly unserious in her current endeavors. You and your fellows whined like little crybabies when she got smacked down by Ed Rollins, campaign manager of a candidate whose stature has gone nowhere but up.

KingGold on June 14, 2011 at 11:32 AM

However, leaping from Trump to Gingrich to Cain and onward…we should at least be ready to accept the truth about these people. They’re asking for a half a million dollars and the leadership of the most powerful country in the world. Vet them.

MadisonConservative on June 14, 2011 at 11:29 AM

Amen! Smart analysis. If only people would do their homework on the candidates rather than letting the media and bloggers do the thinking for them.

Conservative Samizdat on June 14, 2011 at 11:32 AM

To me it should be an “opt in” program.

csdeven on June 14, 2011 at 11:31 AM

Like Measles Mumps Rubella?
Like the whole host of other vaccines that are opt out instead of opt in?
Seriously-vaccines is what keeps many of us alive.
If you’re too stupid as a citizen to ask why you have to have something & just mind numbingly take what the govt offers you, then you don’t deserve your freedom.

Badger40 on June 14, 2011 at 11:33 AM

I think that Perry is known nationally, at least by reputation. His state has thrived as most of the rest the nation has suffered. I don’t think that there can be any doubt that he would be an instant contender if he gets in.

MJBrutus on June 14, 2011 at 11:31 AM

A contender on probably about the same level as Pawlenty. He’s not that well-known nationally. If Perry declares his candidacy tomorrow I don’t see him starting out immediately neck and neck with Romney.

pseudoforce on June 14, 2011 at 11:33 AM

Sarah Palin is a laughingstock of a candidate…

KingGold on June 14, 2011 at 11:32 AM

Who’s closer to Romney in the polls than Bachmann and Pawlenty combined. That’s no laughingstock.

pseudoforce on June 14, 2011 at 11:35 AM

pseudoforce on June 14, 2011 at 11:33 AM

You could be right. I hope that we get a chance to find out :-)

MJBrutus on June 14, 2011 at 11:35 AM

Sarah Palin is a laughingstock of a candidate, and wholly unserious in her current endeavors. You and your fellows whined like little crybabies when she got smacked down by Ed Rollins, campaign manager of a candidate whose stature has gone nowhere but up.

KingGold on June 14, 2011 at 11:32 AM

Jeez. I don’t think so at all. I know I only live in ND, but even when I travel down to S. IN in the summers, almost everyone I talk to loves her.
I’m not a blind follower of the woman, but the media has painted her in a certain way & evidently you’re buying it, hook, line, & sinker.

Badger40 on June 14, 2011 at 11:37 AM

Sarah Palin is a laughingstock of a candidate, and wholly unserious in her current endeavors. You and your fellows whined like little crybabies when she got smacked down by Ed Rollins, campaign manager of a candidate whose stature has gone nowhere but up.

KingGold on June 14, 2011 at 11:32 AM

If you can’t convince yourself, how do you expect to convince anyone else?

Roy Rogers on June 14, 2011 at 11:39 AM

a candidate whose stature has gone nowhere but up.

KingGold on June 14, 2011 at 11:32 AM

I’d say she’s lost a lot of support since her hired pit bull in his “smack down” did nothing more than offer a cheap lib ad hominem talking point.

pseudoforce on June 14, 2011 at 11:39 AM

Like Measles Mumps Rubella?
Like the whole host of other vaccines that are opt out instead of opt in?
Seriously-vaccines is what keeps many of us alive.
If you’re too stupid as a citizen to ask why you have to have something & just mind numbingly take what the govt offers you, then you don’t deserve your freedom.

Badger40 on June 14, 2011 at 11:33 AM

Let me know when a STD is transmitted by air and casual contact and I’ll reconsider.

csdeven on June 14, 2011 at 11:39 AM

pseudoforce on June 14, 2011 at 11:35 AM

Badger40 on June 14, 2011 at 11:37 AM

Joking, folks. Just lampshading the wild-eyed firebreathing of some of Palin’s more devoted adherents.

KingGold on June 14, 2011 at 11:40 AM

TX is not the only state doing very well.
Remember: ND has a great economy.
I think our now Senator John Hoeven probably has POTUS aspirations someday. It wouldn’t surprise me.
I actually hope not bcs I think he’s kind of a cheese-d!@k.
And after meeting him several times, have concluded he’s just another politician.
But I can’t complain about his governorship.
He has done a great job.
But he’s RINO-esque in some ways.

Badger40 on June 14, 2011 at 11:40 AM

There are a number of haughty posters here today who would do well to actually read the posts that you’re so vociferously responding to.

I’m not naming names, but you should know who you are. Whether you will actually awaken to the fact that you are as flawed as the rest of us is an open question.

This is for three of you.

That is all. I’m out.

hillbillyjim on June 14, 2011 at 11:41 AM

firebreathing…adherents.

KingGold on June 14, 2011 at 11:40 AM

A candidate’s gotta have ‘em to win.

pseudoforce on June 14, 2011 at 11:41 AM

pseudoforce on June 14, 2011 at 11:39 AM

Funny, but I can’t even recall what Rollins said. I doubt many others, aside from the Palinoids, do either. In the mean time, MB moved on and had a great debate appearance.

MJBrutus on June 14, 2011 at 11:42 AM

Let me know when a STD is transmitted by air and casual contact and I’ll reconsider.

csdeven on June 14, 2011 at 11:39 AM

Well if you consider kissing casual contact, then herpes is not your friend:
“How do you get Herpes?
Herpes is spread by direct skin to skin contact. Unlike a flu virus that you can get through the air, herpes spreads by direct contact, that is, directly from the site of infection to the site of contact. For example, if you have a cold sore and kiss someone, you can transfer the virus to their mouth. Similarly, if you have active genital herpes and have vaginal or anal intercourse, you can give your partner genital herpes. Finally, if you have a cold sore and put your mouth on your partners genitals (oral sex), you can give your partner genital herpes. “

Badger40 on June 14, 2011 at 11:42 AM

I’m reminded of a “CT Yankee in King Arthur’s Court.” In that story, the natives think someone must be magical because he employed futuristic technology and knowledge that they lacked. In this case, when one applies logical reasoning to form an opinion about what will occur you attribute it to magic. There’s a reason for that.

MJBrutus on June 14, 2011 at 11:23 AM

Holy cow! You actually believe that you can go back in time! No wonder your comment are, at times, nonsensical.

Vince on June 14, 2011 at 11:43 AM

A candidate’s gotta have ‘em to win.

pseudoforce on June 14, 2011 at 11:41 AM

Need quite a bit more than that to win the prize, though, and she hasn’t done much to wow them yet.

KingGold on June 14, 2011 at 11:44 AM

I bet my comment is being moderated bcs i used the word gen!tals, etc. So please pardon me if it does post:
How do you get Herpes?
Herpes is spread by direct skin to skin contact. Unlike a flu virus that you can get through the air, herpes spreads by direct contact, that is, directly from the site of infection to the site of contact. For example, if you have a cold sore and kiss someone, you can transfer the virus to their mouth. Similarly, if you have active gen!tal herpes and have vag!nal or ana! !ntercourse, you can give your partner gen!tal herpes. Finally, if you have a cold sore and put your mouth on your partners genitals (oral se%), you can give your partner genital herpes.

Badger40 on June 14, 2011 at 11:44 AM

Sarah Palin is a laughingstock of a candidate, and wholly unserious in her current endeavors. You and your fellows whined like little crybabies when she got smacked down by Ed Rollins, campaign manager of a candidate whose stature has gone nowhere but up.

KingGold on June 14, 2011 at 11:32 AM

Hahahaha…

When the ad hominem stalker argument fails, revert to whining proof by assertion attacks, regardless of truth.

fossten on June 14, 2011 at 11:45 AM

There are a number of haughty posters here today…

hillbillyjim on June 14, 2011 at 11:41 AM

OK, which one of you is John Kerry? *channeling Limbaugh*

pseudoforce on June 14, 2011 at 11:45 AM

Your 2nd point is highly misleading. No daughter had to get the vaccine if the parents didn’t want her to. Any parent could opt their child out of the vaccine. That little fact tends to be left out when people bring up this attack.

mcg0125 on June 14, 2011 at 11:29 AM

I’m a Perry supporter too, at least as my governor. But you don’t mandate a vaccine for girls to attend a public school that is not intended to prevent a communicable disease. The disease is transmitted by sexual contact. The vaccine issue should have been left to parents. If Perry wanted to protect girls he could have made the vaccine available at cost just like other vaccines are for mandatory school attendance. The decision Perry made had nanny state written all over it. My question is why? Why would Perry feel compelled to force this on girls? I myself have problems with new vaccines for children, in light of so many issues involved in the release without proper testing. So why was it so important to Perry? Does he feel parents aren’t capable of taking care of their own girls?

My understanding is that the bill was written such that if the parent opted out, the girl could not attend public school. So take that and run with it.

Texas Gal on June 14, 2011 at 11:45 AM

Need quite a bit more than that to win the prize, though, and she hasn’t done much to wow them yet.

KingGold on June 14, 2011 at 11:44 AM

She got JetBoy away from you ABPers, despite your most vociferous attacks.

Big failure.

fossten on June 14, 2011 at 11:45 AM

Let me know when a STD is transmitted by air and casual contact and I’ll reconsider.

csdeven on June 14, 2011 at 11:39 AM

My above response was directed towards you.

Badger40 on June 14, 2011 at 11:45 AM

Need quite a bit more than that to win the prize, though, and she hasn’t done much to wow them yet.

KingGold on June 14, 2011 at 11:44 AM

No, but it’s the sine qua non.

pseudoforce on June 14, 2011 at 11:46 AM

Vince on June 14, 2011 at 11:43 AM

There was Hope and Change in the past.

Mmmm… Mmmm… Mmmmmmmm…..

Roy Rogers on June 14, 2011 at 11:46 AM

csdeven on June 14, 2011 at 11:39 AM

Unless you don;t consider a kiss casual contact.

Badger40 on June 14, 2011 at 11:46 AM

Palin would do very well in the primaries but she’ll get killed in the general election.

Conservative Samizdat on June 14, 2011 at 11:30 AM

Crap. Unless zombie Reagan declares we may as well give it to the dems.

Vince on June 14, 2011 at 11:48 AM

Herpes can be spread by kissing evidently folks.
So for those attacking Perry for the mandate, please note herpes is suspected of causing some forms of uterine cancer.
And again, if it’s true you can opt out of it, then it’s no different than saying look, we are vaccinating your kid for measles & if you don’t agree, you have to go through the motions of opting out.

Badger40 on June 14, 2011 at 11:49 AM

Texas Gal on June 14, 2011 at 11:45 AM

There’s not a perfect candidate out there. I don’t agree with Palin on everything either. I could go for any of the three P’s: Palin, Perry or Pawlenty. Bachmann lost me with the Rollins hire.

pseudoforce on June 14, 2011 at 11:50 AM

Badger40 on June 14, 2011 at 11:49 AM

My first impulse would be to say that I don’t like the idea of Nanny government finding yet another excuse to intrude. However, I would want to look at the statistics to see how big a problem STDs are among school kids and how much risk they pose to them. I don’t have a strong opinion without knowing that, but if Perry runs I would want to give that a good look.

MJBrutus on June 14, 2011 at 11:53 AM

April 29, 2010

AUSTIN – Gov. Rick Perry today issued the following statement regarding border security, the recent debate over immigration policy in Washington and what has been implemented in Arizona:

“Texas has a rich history with Mexico, our largest trading partner, and we share more than 1,200 miles of border, more than any other state. As the debate on immigration reform intensifies, the focus must remain on border security and the federal government’s failure to adequately protect our borders. Securing our border is a federal responsibility, but it is a Texas problem, and it must be addressed before comprehensive immigration reform is discussed.

“Recently, there has been much debate over immigration policy in Washington and what has been implemented in Arizona. I fully recognize and support a state’s right and obligation to protect its citizens, but I have concerns with portions of the law passed in Arizona and believe it would not be the right direction for Texas.

“For example, some aspects of the law turn law enforcement officers into immigration officials by requiring them to determine immigration status during any lawful contact with a suspected alien, taking them away from their existing law enforcement duties, which are critical to keeping citizens safe. Our focus must continue to be on the criminal elements involved with conducting criminal acts against Texans and their property. I will continue to work with the legislative leadership to develop strategies that are appropriate for Texas.

“Securing the border has to be a top priority, which is why I have a standing request with the federal government for 1,000 Title 32 National Guardsmen who can support civilian law enforcement efforts to enhance border security in Texas. I have also requested predator drones be based in and operate over the Texas-Mexico border to provide essential information about criminal activity to law enforcement on the ground.

“Until the federal government brings the necessary resources to bear, we will continue to commit state funding and resources for additional border security efforts in order to protect our communities and legitimate cross border trade and travel, while enforcing the laws already on the books.”

windansea on June 14, 2011 at 11:55 AM

Beginning to, yes.

Seriously, people need to start being more skeptical of candidates when they show up, instead of embracing them so handily. If the criticism turns out to be either media narratives, or things that really don’t affect their positions or ideology, then we end up with someone like Palin that’s not as worrisome. However, leaping from Trump to Gingrich to Cain and onward…we should at least be ready to accept the truth about these people. They’re asking for a half a million dollars and the leadership of the most powerful country in the world. Vet them.

MadisonConservative on June 14, 2011 at 11:29 AM

Who’s leaping?

To summarize:

Romney: RINO – no good
Gingrich: RINO + baggage – no good
TPaw: Milquetoast, can’t win – no good
Bachmann – Palin lite, crazy eyes – no good
Santorum – joke – no good
Paul – nut – no good
Cain – gaffe prone, unknown – no good
Palin – quitter, can’t win – no good
Perry – just like McCain – no good

Guess I should just stay home in the general. It’s not like my vote in the primary counts anyway, considering I’m in Kentucky.

fossten on June 14, 2011 at 11:56 AM

My understanding is that the bill was written such that if the parent opted out, the girl could not attend public school. So take that and run with it.

Texas Gal on June 14, 2011 at 11:45 AM

Herpes can easily be spread.
I confess not knowing how much preliminary testing was done for this vaccine, but I know it was probably a decent amount.
And no amount of testing will ever get rid of all risks.
People are just too complicated, biologically, to be able to account for every single little reaction a million in one person might get.
There is a current war on vaccinations in general by extremely ignorant & downright stupid people in this country.
I’m not saying this shouldn’t be a concern for him as a candidate, but it is a very small one. This should not be a stopping issue for this man.

MJBrutus on June 14, 2011 at 11:53 AM

I understand the risks vs the benefits on this issue.
As a conservative, this is the LEAST of my worries concerning a candidate.
I think every parent with a young girl should consider vaccinating her for this.
Especially those families with strong histories of uterine cancer.
Herpes is very easily spread.

Badger40 on June 14, 2011 at 11:58 AM

Palin would do very well in the primaries but she’ll get killed in the general election.

Conservative Samizdat on June 14, 2011 at 11:30 AM

By who?

Palin Ties Obama in Key Swing States: OH, NC, NV, MO, PA

Forget National polls. Swing State polls is where it is at. Like in most elections, a dozen states will decide who the President is, and the rest will vote for the party they always vote for. These are 5 of those swing states, and Obama won 4 of them in 2008. In 3 of the polls, Palin takes in more Democrats than Republicans. In another 3, Palin wins more Independents than Obama (reversal vs. McCain from 2008).

Are you saying Romney supporters will vote for Obama over Palin?

Roy Rogers on June 14, 2011 at 11:59 AM

My above response was directed towards you.

Badger40 on June 14, 2011 at 11:45 AM

I got that, and I understand the concern. But the vaccinations we get for those childhood diseases are all airborne and require very little contact to contract. The Texas vaccination was an over reach in my opinion. Would it be wise for parents to vaccinate their children? Sure as long as it was proven to be safe and effective. But our freedoms guarantee the government cannot intrude on those rights.

csdeven on June 14, 2011 at 12:00 PM

As a conservative, this is the LEAST of my worries concerning a candidate.

Badger40 on June 14, 2011 at 11:58 AM

Yeah, I can’t say it concerns me much. I just think that it might give me a better clue about Perry’s view of the role of government. I have high hopes for him and I hope he runs, but I don’t know enough about him yet.

MJBrutus on June 14, 2011 at 12:00 PM

Unless you don;t consider a kiss casual contact.

Badger40 on June 14, 2011 at 11:46 AM

A kiss is certainly NOT casual contact.

csdeven on June 14, 2011 at 12:01 PM

I have also requested predator drones be based in and operate over the Texas-Mexico border to provide essential information about criminal activity to law enforcement on the ground.

Ought to arm those suckers too!

Vince on June 14, 2011 at 12:02 PM

while enforcing the laws already on the books.”

windansea on June 14, 2011 at 11:55 AM

Well that sounds very reasonable.
Did Perry really support college $$ for illegals? Or is this some rumor?

Guess I should just stay home in the general. It’s not like my vote in the primary counts anyway, considering I’m in Kentucky.

fossten on June 14, 2011 at 11:56 AM

LOL!
This is what one hears if they listen to the media parrot for them.
That’s why I make my own decisions. And do the best I can to search for info. in their own words.

Badger40 on June 14, 2011 at 12:02 PM

Ed, please let T-Paw know he should refine his talking points. He missed an opportunity when talking about funding the 2 wars we are engaged in — I think we are up to 4 wars now. All of the candidates should use this line against Obambi.

sleepy-beans on June 14, 2011 at 12:05 PM

A kiss is certainly NOT casual contact.

csdeven on June 14, 2011 at 12:01 PM

It is for teenagers.
As a public HS teacher, I can tell you that even the little preacher’s daughter is in on that.

Would it be wise for parents to vaccinate their children? Sure as long as it was proven to be safe and effective. But our freedoms guarantee the government cannot intrude on those rights.

csdeven on June 14, 2011 at 12:00 PM

Seriously, this amount of testing is not enough for you?
Let’s get real here.
You look at the risk factors & decide from there. If a parent has a concern about it, then consult & get a Dr’s excuse to get out of it.
It is easy to do. I’ve seen it done.

Badger40 on June 14, 2011 at 12:05 PM

Next time you hear some GOP know-it-all professing that Palin could never win over independents, ask him/her if Mitt Romney can win over the base.

If Sarah decides not to run, her endorsement will determine the winner.

People trust her more than they trust Romney, or Obama.

Roy Rogers on June 14, 2011 at 12:05 PM

the 2-hour performance was a gilt-edged invitation to Rick Perry to join the field and command the stage

Yes, please!
He will be my front-runner should he decide to join.

humdinger on June 14, 2011 at 12:07 PM

sleepy-beans on June 14, 2011 at 12:05 PM

Unfortunately, T-Paw was all for getting us in to Libya. A dark mark on his report card.

MJBrutus on June 14, 2011 at 12:07 PM

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