Obama on unemployment: Don’t forget that those ATMs are taking jobs too
posted at 10:03 pm on June 14, 2011 by Allahpundit
Via Fox Nation. See now why the DNC has to resort to running dumb ads like this? The alternative is to let this guy go out on the stump and explain America’s crippling unemployment in his own words. Here’s where that strategy gets you.
Who knows? Maybe he’s signaling an exciting new innovation in federal regulation. If the NLRB can tell Boeing where it has to build its planes, why can’t it tell Netflix to stop instant streaming in the name of saving jobs? Exit question via Twitter pal Nathan Wurtzel: Does this mean The One is trading in TOTUS for cue cards?
Visit msnbc.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy
Blowback
Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.
Trackbacks/Pings
Trackback URL
Comments
Comment pages: « Previous 1 2 3 4 Next »
so are ya votin’ for Obama….?
(ducks)
Tim_CA on June 15, 2011 at 12:57 AM
By the next month, Obama will be blaming the Oopah-Loopahs.
And the month after that, it’ll be the moles on the golf course.
Lourdes on June 15, 2011 at 12:59 AM
But ah… Sarah Palin didn’t say it, or claim it – Our “genius” super IQ President, with all his fine schooling did. And no doubt, the media will attempt to sell it as “truth”.
I think I can say with certainty, Palin would never try such logic as our current prez…
Sharr on June 15, 2011 at 12:59 AM
No, to be fair, if you listen to the video, he’s simply using it as an excuse for continued high unemployment – as if anyone is going to buy this excuse. He’s not criticizing the banks and airports.
blink on June 15, 2011 at 1:00 AM
It really is “astounding ignorance” being displayed by Obama. Truly, astoundingly inept statements he’s making, and he’s becoming more inept as the days pass.
Lourdes on June 15, 2011 at 1:00 AM
These “Smart Power” politicians may be the death of us all.
The entire Dem leadership uses economic anti-logic:
if it costs a business or consumer more to do it, it must be good for the economy; if a regulation forces people to perform extra work, it must be good for the economy; if a government agency is going to shut down an industry initiative, it’s best to do so after the industry has spent $8 billion in unrecoverable assets, because that makes it better for the economy.
These people don’t have the sense to stand on a riverbank and perceive which way most of the water is flowing, especially if their Leader tells them incorrectly.
They have little understanding of profit, loss or expenses, which tells you how truly ignorant their party is.
God help us. I’m convinced Obama will never get our economy out of the ditch, but if he does, I fear what obstacle we’ll end up in next.
rwenger43 on June 15, 2011 at 1:00 AM
I’d take solace in “Ignorance”. This is starting to look “Malicious and Purposeful” to me.
Tim_CA on June 15, 2011 at 1:07 AM
“My lord, Barrack, why hath the greedy merchants defied your will? Why hath they not responded as you wished after thine Magnificent Stimulus? How cans’t thou tolerate such disrespectful insubordination to thee and thy glorious reign? Whils’t thou not punish them?”
AshleyTKing on June 15, 2011 at 1:12 AM
Skippy needs a nap and some Grecian Formula. And he needs to stop the lying and intentional destruction of America.
redwhiteblue on June 15, 2011 at 1:36 AM
And can we put to rest this absurd meme that “businesses are sitting on record amounts of cash”? At least this reporter specified ‘corporations’, which makes it more accurate. But the jobs many Americans hunger for are not going to be made available by corporations anyway.
Randy’s Lawn Service didn’t hire as many employees this year as last–because the price of gas is so high, the owner has less profit margin to spare paying another 2 workers whose time cannot be managed as well as his other employees’. He has already raised prices this year, but most of his customers are senior citizens on fixed incomes. He would rather work until 10 pm than hire those 2 additional people, because he is not sitting on record amounts of cash.
The Soul Food Cafe has already raised prices this year as well, due to increased food costs. Ironically, customers who continue to patronize the restaurant who use a budget still spend the same amount as before–but they tip less to offset their increased cost. So the workers who still have jobs–business is flat, lower than usual for the summer, and Henri is dealing with higher food, supply and energy costs–are actually taking home less than this time last year. Henry is not sitting on record amounts of cash.
Mr and Mrs Patel used to have their convenience store open 24/7 because of their busy location. But traffic flow has fallen off, so the store is now only open from 6am to 10 pm. They’ve also reduced staff from 2.5 workers per shift to 1.5. So they’ve reduced their labor cost from 300+ hours per week to <200–and the pair of them work about half of that. They make almost nothing from the gas price increase and very little from the sale of their other products since their customers have almost no discretionary income left after filling up. In fact, the Patels are shopping for cheaper suppliers for everything, which could cause variations in the supply chain which could further reduce the suppliers' profits, which is another amplified effect of an ecgonomic downturn, which simply keeps the negative cycle rolling….The Patels are certainly not sitting on large amounts of cash.
All of these events should have been foreseen by an administration that wanted $5 a gallon gasoline. Perhaps they were and the plights of so many Americans are just bumps in the road–but not a road to recovery as much as a road to the economic restructuring of America.
rwenger43 on June 15, 2011 at 1:48 AM
How can you say Obama should have foreseen these things? The man has no training in economics and no experience in the private sector. The only people he knows in the private sector are criminals and rich people (most of whom he regards as criminals, too, but useful) who don’t do much hands-on themselves.
He had this master plan, only slightly modified since Lenin, and no reason to believe it wouldn’t work just perfectly (other than the fact it had failed every other time it was tried but this time was, of course, different because “You’ve got me.”) and achieve a socialist workers’ paradise overnight.
But how could he possibly have been expected to foresee the sudden technological advance of the ATM and its profound effect on the economy and employment? I mean, the ATM has only been around for over 40 years, how could he be aware of that?
Adjoran on June 15, 2011 at 2:00 AM
But how could he possibly have been expected to foresee the sudden technological advance of the ATM and its profound effect on the economy and employment?Adjoran on June 15, 2011 at 2:00 AM
Obama’s real problem is that the ATM does not give out money based on a worker’s need and thus is an instrument of oppression.
pedestrian on June 15, 2011 at 2:25 AM
Well, I can’t vouch for you, but as for me…(:-))
fred5678 on June 15, 2011 at 2:50 AM
The one asking the questions was even worse than the one answering the questions.
She actually said that businesses were making bigger profits than ever before, and just sitting on the money, and asked how to convince businesses to hire more people.
Businesses don’t spend the money because they don’t know what payroll-related expenses are about to hit them next. The will hire when hiring people will help them to make more money. Typical of a journalist to be clueless about how businesses operate. But take comfort: that won’t prevent them from looking down their noses at everyone else.
There Goes The Neighborhood on June 15, 2011 at 3:03 AM
That caught my eye…how much loss along with debt, defaults, embezzlement, incompetent management, big union bullying, golden parachutes, pyramid schemes, inflated stock values, identity theft, shoplifting, employee theft, corporate raiders, monopolies, nepotism, lobbying expenses, campaign contributions, lawsuits, overexpansion, poor customer service, usurious interest rates and a host of other things that escape me at the moment can the system bear?
Throw in the sucking sound of the government tax vacuum cleaner and I think we’ve just about reached the endpoint.
Dr. ZhivBlago on June 15, 2011 at 3:30 AM
“Tut, my obsequious minion. I shall, in time, find a way to bring these miscreant businessmen to heal. Fear not, child.”
AshleyTKing on June 15, 2011 at 3:35 AM
So the Terminator movies were true!! The machines are taking over!!
Help us Sarah Conner!! You’re our only hope!!
All hail president clueless!
Talon on June 15, 2011 at 4:33 AM
Let’s not forget all those typewriter repair jobs. They’re never coming back and it’s all Boosh’s fault!
Obamanomics can be summed up by:
MJBrutus on June 15, 2011 at 5:34 AM
Doesn’t matter as long as the media loves him. They would sacrifice their own children to use as human prop-rods to bolster this dilapidated facade. And you thought the communists were crazy SOB’s.
SKYFOX on June 15, 2011 at 6:09 AM
There can’t be a bigger ignorant fool on the national stage than Obama. No one says these things without believing them. Will the LSM investigate his statement for economic sense?
steveracer on June 15, 2011 at 6:15 AM
BAM!! Thread winner! No need for further comment.
KMC1 on June 15, 2011 at 6:16 AM
You think he has reached his lowest point but then he keeps surprising you.
Hey, maybe his presidency inspired ATM’s?
Hey, maybe he’s just laying the ground work for a new TARP for bank tellers.
JellyToast on June 15, 2011 at 6:28 AM
ObaMao in his economic ignorance reminds me of an acquaintance who battled me over the issue of raising the minimum wage, one of the first things that Pelosi’s hacks did on gaining power in the House in 2007. I could not convince the yoyo that raising the minimum wage would cost jobs, especially those of the unskilled and newbies to the work force.
These people still think in terms of a finite pie that has to be resliced for “fair” redistribution.
onlineanalyst on June 15, 2011 at 6:34 AM
Hey, Øbama, did you know that if the phone company switched calls today the way it did in 1900, every woman between the ages of 18 and 49 would be employed by the phone company? Of course, we wouldn’t have cell phones or the Internet, but we need that employment so why don’t you pass another regulation?
Kafir on June 15, 2011 at 6:48 AM
Bingo. The problem of “fairness” is a matter of “distribution” of wealth.
I’ve spoken to a great many liberals and these people do not understand and/or do not believe in capitalism. It is that simple. Never mind that free market capitalism is responsible for the greatest expansion of wealth, freedom from crushing poverty, extended lifetimes, and just about every other good that can come from economic activity.
MJBrutus on June 15, 2011 at 7:01 AM
And golf carts are taking away countless caddy jobs!
Trafalgar on June 15, 2011 at 7:22 AM
You will find this logic brilliantly described by Ayn Rand in Anthem….ya can’t have electric lights, what about the candlemakers!
clnurnberg on June 15, 2011 at 7:35 AM
I denounce Obama pushing windmills and solar power.
Job killers.
Hire servants to run on treadmills to light and heat your home. To pull you around in carts to get you to and from your job and the store. And to fan you with palm fronds and feed you grapes, too.
hit and run on June 15, 2011 at 7:38 AM
Businesses are making record profits? Really? Did I miss something? Because the last time I checked – which is virtually all day, every day – the stock market was in the crapper.
matd on June 15, 2011 at 7:54 AM
re: opening Target ad – don’t fat people shop at Target or do they do all their shopping just at WalMart?
WordsMatter on June 15, 2011 at 8:00 AM
As Limbaugh stated yesterday, this behavior is that of a Luddite.
fossten on June 15, 2011 at 8:00 AM
Central Pa is the place to be
Amish living is the life for me
Lantern light is seen far and wide
Keep the White House, just give me that countryside…
mizflame98 on June 15, 2011 at 8:16 AM
We should just pass a law that makes it illegal for any company to automate any function now being performed by a person. That will solve that problem.
In fact, we should pass laws that undo previous automation. Like NJ, every state should have a law making self-serve illegal at gas stations. We should make ATM’s illegal. There should be no easypass on the thruway and no automated toll boths.
Automated car washes should be outlawed. We should also get rid of the internet so that people are forced to buy everything at a store.
That will rev up the economy and reduce unemployment. That and another huge stimulus for shovel ready jobs. And, if we add in cap-and-trade tehre will be millions of new green jobs. And if we add in card-check, everyone will be unionized and make big money.
If we just listend and did what the libs wanted, everything would be great.
Monkeytoe on June 15, 2011 at 8:22 AM
Umm… I’m pretty sure we had ATM and automated airline check-ins when Bush was president, too.
See! Look at the problems Obama has inherited from Bush!
Anyway, I am surprised they didn’t try to spin it this way:
9.1% unemployment? That’s 90.9% employed! Thats a good solid A minus!
bitsy on June 15, 2011 at 8:26 AM
I was reminded of this post as I read an article in today’s Wall Street Journal (“Students Stumble Again on the Basics of History”, A3).
The article concludes “and [fourth-grade] students scoring advanced probably would be able to explain how factories changed American work.”
Is our president smarter than an advanced fourth grader?
BuckeyeSam on June 15, 2011 at 8:40 AM
Economics and private sector illiterate. And that goes for whoever writes for his teleprompter too.
petefrt on June 15, 2011 at 8:42 AM
So true. Any lie to continue the destruction as the Soros Plan requires.
ROCnPhilly on June 15, 2011 at 8:50 AM
And just think how many people Obama put out of work with his use of the teleprompter. In the old days it would have taken an army of cue card holders to keep up with Obama…
albill on June 15, 2011 at 8:55 AM
Are You Smarter Than Barack Obama?
“the show where we find out whether our country’s ten-year-olds are qualified to be leader of the free world, and vice versa”
hit and run on June 15, 2011 at 9:07 AM
If you have the really basic “eChecking account”, Bank of America will charge you if you do any transactions at a teller.
SnowSun on June 15, 2011 at 9:07 AM
Perhaps an exaggeration, since they would certainly be greedy union employees, and so not many people would be able to afford a phone. It would be a bonanza for democratic party contributions though.
slickwillie2001 on June 15, 2011 at 9:32 AM
If you got rid of all the machinary used in agriculture we could hire a lot more people in that industry.
Indeed, think of all the jobs that would be created if we went back to a horse and buggy economy. There would be jobs for breeders, shoers, whipmakers and drivers, as well as more market for farm goods. And we would be saving the earth from overhheating. It’s win-win.
Monkeytoe on June 15, 2011 at 9:39 AM
This guy is truly the dumbest president we have had in my lifetime – maybe ever.
Monkeytoe on June 15, 2011 at 9:40 AM
I am sure the fact it takes 5 jobs to build 1 ATM means nothing to our economic genius… and the fact it pays for itself in less than a year. And isnt it the Fed who is pushing banks to drop live bodies due to cash theft???
Odie1941 on June 15, 2011 at 9:40 AM
If ATM’s are taking away the jobs of Tellers, would soda machines be taking aways the job of the soda jerk. And for that matter, would candy machines be taking away the jobs and businesses of mom and pop candy stores.
I was going to say guns taking the jobs of the catapult people, but didn’t want to give obama any ideas
ConservativePartyNow on June 15, 2011 at 9:47 AM
Gee, maybe government at all levels (city, county, state, federal) should look for ways to make hiring people cheaper by eliminating taxes for a start but also all of the regulations that make it so expensive to hire someone!!!
There are reasons that cities like Detroit and Toledo (to name a few) are dead or dying. Govt, at the request of special interestes like unions and environmentalists to name a few, can not continue to penalize and extract money from businesses without ultimately forcing those businesses to move and prevent new ones from coming. You and I go to the cheapest gas station why wouldn’t a business do the same?
stoutj734 on June 15, 2011 at 9:51 AM
Don’t go and hyperventalate. Of course we’d still have the internets. Just think of the convenience of dialing up your local operator, asking if she could patch you through to “Hot Air” and almost as if by magic, “www.barackobama.com” would show up on your computer.
MNHawk on June 15, 2011 at 9:51 AM
LMAO!
Just typing out Barack Obama Dot Com sends a post to moderation. Funny!
MNHawk on June 15, 2011 at 9:52 AM
Barack Obama: The buggy whip president.
csdeven on June 15, 2011 at 10:11 AM
After outlawing ATMs — we should take a hard look at those ‘self-checkout’ grocery lanes. And self-serve gas-pumps!
Tons of jobs that could be saved !!
/.
CaveatEmpty on June 15, 2011 at 10:18 AM
Piggybacking on that thought. New nickname: President Horse and Buggy. It reminded me of the nickname for Gen. Winfield Scott–Old Fuss and Feathers.
BuckeyeSam on June 15, 2011 at 10:30 AM
THE CURSE OF MACHINERY
“Among the most viable of all economic delusions is the belief that machines on net balance create unemployment. Destroyed a thousand times, it has risen a thousand times out of its own ashes as hardy and vigorous as ever. Whenever there is a long-continued mass unemployment, machines get the blame anew. This fallacy is still the basis of many labor union practices. The public tolerates these practices because it either believes at bottom that the unions are right, or is too confused to see just why they are wrong.
The belief that machines cause unemployment, when held with any logical consistency, leads to preposterous conclusions. Not only must we be causing unemployment with every technological improvement we make today, but primitive man must have started causing it with the first efforts he made to save himself from needless toil and sweat.”-Henry Hazlitt
http://fee.org/library/books/economics-in-one-lesson/#0.1_L8
ebrown2 on June 15, 2011 at 10:35 AM
In other words, incentives matter. Who’d a thunk?
Pablo Snooze on June 15, 2011 at 10:41 AM
These nasty machines are just doing jobs Americans don’t want to do!
Don’t blame the poor little machines! They can’t unionize… yet…
ajacksonian on June 15, 2011 at 10:45 AM
If I recall correctly, we had ATMs under Bush, also. Look at all the problems Obama inherited from Boooooosh!
bitsy on June 15, 2011 at 10:58 AM
What Obama displays here is the kind of economic ignorance that would get you an F in any Econ 101 course for not understanding the basic concept of Creative Destruction.
His approach to economics is based solely on ideology and has no basis in reality or the Laws of Economics.
RadClown on June 15, 2011 at 11:03 AM
Umm…ATMs were introduced in Japan in 1966, and starting in the US just a few years later. That’s not exactly a new development, just as the self-check kiosks at airports have been around for at least 20 years. Too bad the “journalists” that are blessed with an interview with The One do little more than drip spittle on his boots.
EasyEight on June 15, 2011 at 11:47 AM
Little Bammie doesn’t know about ATM machines, he always got his walking-around money from Tony Rezko.
slickwillie2001 on June 15, 2011 at 11:54 AM
Hmmmm….Doesn’t ObamaCare mandate efficiencies in the delivery of healthcare by automating a great deal of functions currently being performed manually?
Job killers, no?
BobMbx on June 15, 2011 at 12:05 PM
It is truly mind-numbing to listen to this little confab. Who’s more clueless; Obama or the reporter? Neither understands business and productivity. Obama may as well get it over with and issue that Executive Order requiring all of the unemployed, upon pain of losing benefits, to start those shovel-ready jobs in building pyramids to his greatness. One term of Obama is one term too many!!!
Bob in VA on June 15, 2011 at 12:35 PM
Obamanomics… Focused on putting ATM’s outta business.
Check.
-
RalphyBoy on June 15, 2011 at 12:38 PM
Obama on unemployment: Don’t forget that those ATMs are taking jobs too
Yea, and don’t forget those self service gas stations too. Been using those for decades now – since the late ’70s.
LODGE4 on June 15, 2011 at 12:51 PM
lol
Tim_CA on June 15, 2011 at 12:53 PM
Has anyone ever done a study, to determine the number of people building robots, compared to the number of people replaced by robots?
In other words, how many people does it take to build an ATM, compared to the ONE person it replaces?
If my theory is correct, automation would actually increase the number of jobs.
franksalterego on June 15, 2011 at 12:57 PM
SoundByte Americans react to video/news of Presidents statement.
“ATM?, I use my check or my debit card all the time, what is he talking about?” “Oh well, it’s good he’s working on jobs, we need more jobs.” “Hey what time is Kaitlyn’s practice tonight?”, “I’ve got to get gas before I get home, will dinner be ready or do we need to do drive-thru again?”.
And so the Republic slips away……..
PappyD61 on June 15, 2011 at 1:00 PM
ATM’s taking jobs? I for one am not willing to stand up against a wall at 2am willing to hand out cash to anyone with the a “card” in their hand.
RADIOONE on June 15, 2011 at 1:25 PM
Nothing underscores the complete skill of OBAMANOMICS better than this……….
http://beta.news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/struggling-single-mom-sells-obama-letter-153110485.html
This should be emailed, facebooked, etc. far and wide. THIS is Americas’ future under the DOTUS.
PappyD61 on June 15, 2011 at 1:57 PM
It doesn’t matter. Since banks can to spend less money on tellers, they are driven by competition to pass the savings on to borrowers and depositors. Those people spend the extra money on the products and services that they value more highly than spending time in the bank lobby waiting to get cash.
pedestrian on June 15, 2011 at 1:59 PM
Obama’s plans to help the economy would put every business out of business.
Without automation, fewer things would get done, and they’d take a lot longer. If banks replaced ATMs with people, they’d have to charge higher fees. Except the fees are not regulated by Congress. So the banks would just have to lose money.
How long before a major business (say, Boeing) throws up their hands and says “forget it”?
hawksruleva on June 15, 2011 at 2:01 PM
Theory? Nah….its fact. How many people had jobs before machines (the wheel was the first “machine”)? And how many people have jobs now?
Case closed.
BobMbx on June 15, 2011 at 2:03 PM
I am stunned, Really ? “Business’s are just being more efficient and hiring less people”. THAT’S WHAT BUSINESS IS SUPPOSED TO DO YEA ya dumbass ! What do you want or expect people to do ! want farmers to go back to the horse n plough? Do away with cars so we can hire buggy makers or hire people to sweep up horse shit in the streets, Hire wagon trains to move produce? What a Friggen dumb ass!
ColdWarrior57 on June 15, 2011 at 2:04 PM
Obama attacks two pieces of automation the he doesn’t use… wonder how he would feel if someone attacked the ones he does use… TOTUS, golf carts, online fund raising, email bots, autopens, super heavy limos… etc…
here is a guy who has probably never operated a gasoline pump in his life trying to tell us that the things that make our life easier are killing the economy.
is this really happening in America? do we not have a single person in the country who has the guts to attack him full bore the moment he makes some of these statements?
NavyDavy on June 15, 2011 at 2:05 PM
Sure. But what happens when robots design and build robots? What happens when someone develops a computer program that will itself write a working program for whatever you need it to do?
These things may not affect us, but most likely our children.
I imagine that most Americans in the next 50 to 100 years will be living on farms/homesteads or in some other fashion supporting themselves as few jobs will be available for humans. I just hope that these farms aren’t “communes”.
Dr. ZhivBlago on June 15, 2011 at 2:18 PM
I just spotted this piece at Townhall and post the link here because the inevitable response to the question contained in the first paragraph is much higher unemployment:
http://townhall.com/columnists/tonyblankley/2011/06/15/brother,_can_you_spare_a_regulation/page/full/
In otherwords, No one has studied it at all. They just “expect” it to work out just great. Read the top paragraph again.
What will the overall effects of 300 new financial regulations be? Your first two guesses don’t count.
dogsoldier on June 15, 2011 at 2:29 PM
He doesn’t have to. Not anymore.
American taxpayers are responsible for his pretty comfortable retirement till he dies.
Sir Napsalot on June 15, 2011 at 2:33 PM
Maybe Obama is right about machines. They are out to get us:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2015325599_slough16m.html
pedestrian on June 15, 2011 at 2:39 PM
He fails to take responsibilty for anything! Nothing bad is ever his fault!! Pantload!
rjoco1 on June 15, 2011 at 2:41 PM
Ed, send ALL Obamteurisms to the RNC
NoFanofLibs on June 15, 2011 at 2:43 PM
So before Obama gets any facts,
“The ATMs acted stupidly”?
Sir Napsalot on June 15, 2011 at 3:17 PM
One last question -
Why is his (Obama) lack of understanding on basic economics not made obvious before 2008?
Sir Napsalot on June 15, 2011 at 3:46 PM
100%
Beer / Machine Oil Summit?
Tim_CA on June 15, 2011 at 4:03 PM
Sure. But what happens when robots design and build robots? What happens when someone develops a computer program that will itself write a working program for whatever you need it to do?
These things may not affect us, but most likely our children.
I imagine that most Americans in the next 50 to 100 years will be living on farms/homesteads or in some other fashion supporting themselves as few jobs will be available for humans. I just hope that these farms aren’t “communes”.
Dr. ZhivBlago on June 15, 2011 at 2:18 PM
You might try reading this chapter for your answer:
http://fee.org/library/books/economics-in-one-lesson/#0.1_L8
ebrown2 on June 15, 2011 at 4:57 PM
Thank you for the link. It was well-written, but I believe in some ways flawed. It certainly is more palatable if your paradigm matches that of the author.
For one thing, the author assumes that history “repeats itself”. However, I think it’s not-it’s unidirectional. If it weren’t we’d be cycling through the ages of slavery, feudalism, capitalism and possibly socialism over and over again and history clearly shows that does not happen.
If that’s the case, then technology is also unidirectional. We aren’t about to give up steam turbines to go back to Newcomen atmospheric steam engines.
There is no doubt that advances in technology increase standards of living. But, those advances depend upon the condition of both science and the nature of society. If either of those have problems, then technology cannot advance.
If your financial house (part of the society leg) is crumbling, then you cannot expect new technologies. Let’s assume that the financial portion is OK…then what about availability/competition for resources? The Capitalist model has to assume these are always widely and cheaply available. We’re seeing that they are not.
If resources and energy are, for all practical purposes infinite, then the question becomes who can and who cannot pay for those technologies? How do you pay for those things if you have no income? As technologies become more advanced, how many can understand, fix and improve upon them? A higher percentage of average Americans were able to fix or modify a Model-T than those who can now do the same with any modern non hybrid vehicle due to the electronics and the lack of specialized knowledge amongst the citizenry.
Can a high standard of living be universal, that is, up to the point of our current standard of living? The Socialists would point out that that is not likely, thus wealth redistribution schemes, class warfare and so on.
But if Mankind gains technology (and doesn’t lose it somehow) then we may reach a point where traditional labor models no longer matter. So, is there a point where private companies are no longer needed to develop new technologies as those technologies themselves make Human profit motives, Human innovation, Human monetary investment, and Human input of any kind obsolete?
If so, then what you have left over is indeed Socialism. Centralized “politically reliable” committees deciding who gets what and how and what your rights are or aren’t.
That’s the only place I can see all this leading if unchecked.
My view is that Jeffersonian Democracy, our Republic, our Bill of Rights, our Liberty made it possible for Capitalism to thrive-not the other way around. So we need to maybe start thinking about how to preserve those things, along with our Civilization, our standard of living and so on before the Marxists take over.
Dr. ZhivBlago on June 15, 2011 at 6:07 PM
ATMs have been around for decades. Which means we had ATMs during the Bush administration when unemployment was at 5-6%… yet unemployment has reached 9.1% on Obama’s watch. Odd. I wonder how he explains that? ///
-Aslan’s Girl
Aslans Girl on June 15, 2011 at 8:23 PM
POTUS replaceable by TOTUS.
Philly on June 15, 2011 at 9:07 PM
DEY TERK ARR JERBS!!!
Blacklake on June 15, 2011 at 9:36 PM
“If your financial house (part of the society leg) is crumbling, then you cannot expect new technologies. Let’s assume that the financial portion is OK…then what about availability/competition for resources? The Capitalist model has to assume these are always widely and cheaply available. We’re seeing that they are not.”
No, the Capitalist model doesn’t “always” assume that, but it does assume that the market, when not interfered with externally/politically, will reach a point of equilibrium where resources are not priced out of purchasing range for customers. Hazlitt deals with this in his first two chapters.
“If resources and energy are, for all practical purposes infinite, then the question becomes who can and who cannot pay for those technologies? How do you pay for those things if you have no income? As technologies become more advanced, how many can understand, fix and improve upon them? A higher percentage of average Americans were able to fix or modify a Model-T than those who can now do the same with any modern non hybrid vehicle due to the electronics and the lack of specialized knowledge amongst the citizenry.”
Division of labor, that’s how. You have to understand that economics is the ecology of human life. No one person has to have that knowledge, in fact no one person (or even a “meritocracy”) CAN have that knowledge. That’s why the notion of an administered economy is ultimately destructive.
“Can a high standard of living be universal, that is, up to the point of our current standard of living? The Socialists would point out that that is not likely, thus wealth redistribution schemes, class warfare and so on.”
Well, that’s the argument of the late Jean Baudrillard and the Situationists, namely that the logic of late capitalist consumption necessitates a constant gap between advertised aspirations and mass economic reality. It is a more pertinent criticism than Obama’s uninformed Luddism, but it founders on the fact that the adaptation of free-market capitalism does in fact result in objectively better lives for the majority of people in the system, which they (especially the Marxian Situationist International) handwave away as a system of half-believed propaganda on the part of capitalists.
“But if Mankind gains technology (and doesn’t lose it somehow) then we may reach a point where traditional labor models no longer matter. So, is there a point where private companies are no longer needed to develop new technologies as those technologies themselves make Human profit motives, Human innovation, Human monetary investment, and Human input of any kind obsolete?”
That’s the purview of the “crystal spires and togas” science-fiction view of technological progress. It is vanishingly unlikely to happen given that we’d need Star Trek style replicators (themselves a massively questionable violation of physics :>) for it to even be theoretically possible. There will still be shortages, supervision and plain old discontented dissatisfaction with the status quo in the future. Remember, we got an earful about how the “old paradigms” of supply and demand didn’t matter during the Internet Bubble of the late 90′s. The wise old heads who relied on history to call it Tulipmania were utterly justified in the end.
“If so, then what you have left over is indeed Socialism. Centralized “politically reliable” committees deciding who gets what and how and what your rights are or aren’t.”
Command and control economies don’t even work in fictional worlds where every last detail is intelligently designed and created, as in MMORPG’s, they will fail even more so in our world.
“That’s the only place I can see all this leading if unchecked.
My view is that Jeffersonian Democracy, our Republic, our Bill of Rights, our Liberty made it possible for Capitalism to thrive-not the other way around. So we need to maybe start thinking about how to preserve those things, along with our Civilization, our standard of living and so on before the Marxists take over.
Dr. ZhivBlago on June 15, 2011 at 6:07 PM
It is true that free-market capitalism requires reciprocal obligation and good-faith negotiation, human freedom to develop and the rule of law, but the violation of these things does not stop the negative effects which Hazlitt describes from happening.
ebrown2 on June 15, 2011 at 9:39 PM
“Hazlitt deals with this in his first two chapters.”
I should say that he alludes to it.
ebrown2 on June 15, 2011 at 9:45 PM
Interesting points. May be, but I’m more cynical I guess.
Dr. ZhivBlago on June 16, 2011 at 1:04 AM
Thanks Obowma. And I thought those evil ATM machines were around longer than 2 1/2 years.
Yea, Obowma is soooooooo smart. We should eliminate airplanes, busses, all motorized farm equipment, road graders, skip loaders, cement mixers, all tilt up construction, cranes, trains, computers….
Just think of the jobs he can “save or create” and ALL of them would be “shovel ready”….idiot.
dthorny on June 16, 2011 at 8:08 PM
It’s easy to explain why Obama doesn’t realize his position is so stupid. From his point-of-view, employers serve no purpose other than to provide jobs to employees, and should make every possible effort to do so even if those employees aren’t necessary. Dude doesn’t understand that’s not the point of a business. People getting jobs is just a happy circumstance of a business doing well enough to hire them.
Also, did you know that the term “computer” used to refer to an actual person who performed calculations? Gee, how about we take this to the next level and throw out all of our evil electronic computers, and put people in those jobs, too? We can have specific people with titles of “Spreadsheet Director” and “Document Composer.” It’ll be freaking awesome.
R. Waher on June 17, 2011 at 7:17 PM
Comment pages: « Previous 1 2 3 4 Next »