Open thread: The New Hampshire debate
posted at 7:30 pm on June 13, 2011 by Allahpundit
8 p.m. ET on CNN, the Romney pile-on begins in earnest — or does it? The frontrunner’s supposed to be the universal target, but if I were a Michele Bachmann or Herman Cain whose candidacy depended entirely on Iowa, I’d worry less about attacking the guy with the light footprint and more about the guy who desperately needs to win there to launch himself nationwide. Pawlenty vs. Bachmann, round one.
It runs until 10 p.m., but if you’re worried about getting bored, don’t be:
There will be, of course, the audience and the moderator, CNN’s John King. But just before the stage is something the CNNers have dubbed “The Red Zone,” where a group of registered Republican voters will be sitting who have not yet chosen a candidate. Big emphasis on that last part from Bohrman, who made it known that the network had gone to considerable effort to verify the open-mindedness of the Red Zoners and ensure that CNN didn’t get punked. The Red Zone is a sort of a living, breathing, real-time focus group. But it is not only that! The Red Zone folks aren’t going to just sit by, passively, stewing about Obamacare. Oh no, they’re not. They’ll get to ask questions of the candidates during the debate.
You know who else will get to ask questions? Three groups of Republicans who have been empaneled by CNN in three cities around New Hampshire: Plymouth, Rochester, and Hancock. (Bohrman wanted to get the entire town of Dixville Notch, which would have been cool, but it didn’t work out. Maybe they don’t have Twitter up there.) Anyway, these three groups will be watching, hawk-like, and the candidates will also be watching them, because they’re going to be looming over the stage like Big Brother on a gigantic 27-foot-by-16-foot television screen.
Oh, but they’re not all that’s going to be looming over the stage on giant 27-foot screens. You know why? Because there are TWO giant 27-foot screens, and the other one will be devoted to a Twitter and Facebook stream curated by CNN’s own Bryan Monroe. (The hashtag will be #CNNDebate, by the way.) So you, too–or anybody!–can ask questions of the candidates. Or just embarrass them for ducking, if that’s what they do. Monroe made clear that he’ll be including all sorts of comments–so you if you want to shame Romney for some weak dodge on health care, you can do so IN GIANT LETTERS ON A BIG SCREEN RIGHT IN FRONT OF HIS FACE.
In other words, we may actually see the word “RINO” materialize behind a candidate tonight if his/her answer is unsatisfactory. The idea of what might show up onscreen when Gingrich is speaking is alone enough to make me faint with anticipation. Greatest debate ever?
While we wait, dive into NRO’s interview with the editor of New Hampshire’s most influential newspaper. He’s awfully cool to Palin’s chances, but winning NH would be about as important to her as winning Iowa would be to Romney. I.e. not very. Exit question: Why on earth didn’t Jon Huntsman participate tonight? He hasn’t declared yet, I know, but then neither has Bachmann. And unlike Bachmann, New Hampshire is crucial to his viability; this is the perfect chance to introduce himself to the state, and he’s passing. Bizarre.
Update: Ah, almost forgot the obligatory debate drinking game link. Follow Matt Lewis’s instructions and you’ll be rocked within 10 minutes.
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The candidates set a great tone by focusing on tearing down Obama and not focusing on each other as king tried so hard to get them to do.
Virginia Shanahan on June 13, 2011 at 10:17 PM
ood observation. Why would a Lib like King try to derail Bachmann? /s
Red State State of Mind on June 13, 2011 at 10:17 PM
Biggest winner tonight:
Mike Castle.
Castle-Snowe 2012
Bishop on June 13, 2011 at 10:17 PM
I would love to hear Perry at a debate. Maybe later in the campaign year if he decides to run. I sure hope he does.
Voter from WA State on June 13, 2011 at 10:17 PM
Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
SouthernGent on June 13, 2011 at 10:17 PM
No winners, but Mr. Cain is showing himself to be a lightweight—too bad.
Please, no more phony pre-programmed ‘debates’.
We need to hear what the candidates think, and we need to hear them discuss the issues among themselves. Stop with the stupid Internet and audience questions; stop changing the topic before everyone has had a chance to speak on an issue; stop throwing in idiotic questions like “Coke or Pepsi?”
John King clearly thought the was running a quiz show.
If Mitt Romney, with his stage presence and good voice, had Rick Santorum’s clear, firm positions and understanding of the issues, we’d have the perfect candidate.
/Mr Lynn
MrLynn on June 13, 2011 at 10:17 PM
He did in fact, Inkblots… he did indeed.
Which makes me wonder, who am I going to believe… predator, or my lying ears?
JohnGalt23 on June 13, 2011 at 10:14 PM
Believe Ron Paul all you want. It’s a free country (so far).
predator on June 13, 2011 at 10:18 PM
Until Ron Paul rediscovered the subjunctive mood, he was bragging that he tells the generals what to do.
elijah on June 13, 2011 at 10:18 PM
Did I mention there will be special appearances by Andrew Sullivan and Joe McGinniss?
steebo77 on June 13, 2011 at 10:18 PM
Since I missed the beginning, did they get a question of not having a problem whatsoever of making all their emails available in case they get an FOIA their way?
ProudPalinFan on June 13, 2011 at 10:18 PM
i don’t think I said newt gave a good answer on Libya. i thought cain missed a good chance to expand his depth in this debate. he was outclassed here. I was hoping for more so maybe Im grading him inform that POV but cain really needs to move beyond talking points if he wants to be a player here.
I thought Bachmann probably surpised the most the benifit of low expectations. Mitt underwhelmed. Newt i thoought for all his problems did well. he handled the stress pretty good. the others didn’t set any fires for me…
unseen on June 13, 2011 at 10:19 PM
I liked Bachmann, but mostly as a contrast to the blandness of the others. Even Cain seemed off his game. Newt wasn’t bad, but that guy will crater again as the campaign goes along, its in his DNA apparently.
JonPrichard on June 13, 2011 at 10:19 PM
Romney and Bachmann win. Cain an no shows lose.
swamp_yankee on June 13, 2011 at 10:19 PM
The American People…
(… and liquor store owners.)
Seven Percent Solution on June 13, 2011 at 10:20 PM
Joan Walsh is the new Lucille Ball.
steebo77 on June 13, 2011 at 10:20 PM
No email questions. No twitter questions. No sexting questions.
elijah on June 13, 2011 at 10:20 PM
I understand how and why Cain answered the question the way he did. He brought it back to first asking, 1) What is the problem and 2) Does this concern the national interests of the US?
In corporate america, always, the starting point is defining the problem. I don’t think politicians pay enough attention at this point of the analysis. Instead, they focus on symptoms, not the root cause of the problem.
karenhasfreedom on June 13, 2011 at 10:20 PM
yeah it would have been nice to have him up there…
unseen on June 13, 2011 at 10:20 PM
BKennedy on June 13, 2011 at 10:15 PM
Agreed – good analysis.
knob on June 13, 2011 at 10:21 PM
For those of you that have illegal immigration near the top of your list (like me) and that also liked Bachmann, please note: NumbersUSA gives her the best grade of all candidates with a B, TPaw second with a C. All the rest are D and below.
TxAnn56 on June 13, 2011 at 10:17 PM
Yeap. I’m a member of NumbersUSA myself. And those “D” grades or lower include one Ron Paul, which is why I don’t believe a thing he said about border security tonight.
But nice try, Paulbots.
predator on June 13, 2011 at 10:22 PM
CNN is interviewing Ron Paul to show their viewers the mainstream of conservative thinking.
/
faraway on June 13, 2011 at 10:22 PM
I will do a double-take on that logo on Pennsylvanians 4 Palin. I am finishing up crafting a psychological analysis on Ziegler. McGinnis is on a whole ‘nother level. If Ziegler got a complete psycho profile from me, McGinnis should play Grandpa on the wheelchair going down the precipice.
ProudPalinFan on June 13, 2011 at 10:22 PM
more than likely you are correct but the POTUS position while it has some aspects of a CEO’s job is not really a CEO job.
unseen on June 13, 2011 at 10:22 PM
Oddly enough, there is no subjunctive in Hebrew…
steebo77 on June 13, 2011 at 10:22 PM
As President Paul (which was how the question was asked, IIRC), that ain’t bragging. It’s a statement of fact.
JohnGalt23 on June 13, 2011 at 10:22 PM
Steebo, kidding! xoxo
ProudPalinFan on June 13, 2011 at 10:22 PM
Anyone who defends Cain today loses all credibility in objectivity.
haner on June 13, 2011 at 10:22 PM
Obamneycare….
King: Global Warming or Global Cooling?
Roy Rogers on June 13, 2011 at 10:22 PM
That was my argument when someone criticized Cain’s response… when at least three other people said basically the same thing. That’s why I was confused by the dislike of Cain’s response… That’s why i was wondering if Unseen thought Gingrich, Bachmann, and Pawlenty answer it wrong as well?
DaSaintFan on June 13, 2011 at 10:23 PM
Can’t wait to read your thoughts on Ziggy.
steebo77 on June 13, 2011 at 10:23 PM
Did anyone notice when Michele Bachmann said that as President she would consult the Commander-in-Chief on certain issues? Does that mean she would talk to herself?
steebo77 on June 13, 2011 at 10:24 PM
King: Weiner or Plenis?
Seven Percent Solution on June 13, 2011 at 10:24 PM
When Ron Paul stubs his toe, he blames The Fed.
When he gets a paper cut, the Military Industrial Complex is responsible.
Hollowpoint on June 13, 2011 at 10:24 PM
Reminder: Obama will be in Puerto Rico for four hours tomorrow, for two tiny meetings and picking up $$ for fundraisers and leave in four hours.
From what I’ve read, my folks are not that happy with their visit. They want their vets taken care of them, there’s an imbalance from here to there. And that’s for starters.
ProudPalinFan on June 13, 2011 at 10:25 PM
Kewl Steebo, thanks!!!!!
ProudPalinFan on June 13, 2011 at 10:26 PM
this is the preseason. you play the rookies in the preseason
unseen on June 13, 2011 at 10:26 PM
King: Underage or stripper?
Roy Rogers on June 13, 2011 at 10:26 PM
Bachmann – fairly good
Cain – Somehow lost his earlier dynamism
Newt – Was pretty good (was always good in debates, horrible manager)
Romney – Sigh, just treading water.
Paul – Cranky guy yelling at kids to get off his lawn.
Santorum – Just keepin’ the faith (but not many votes)
Pawlenty – Just flat out punked out
JonPrichard on June 13, 2011 at 10:26 PM
No winners tonight, but Cain was the loser.
huckleberryfriend on June 13, 2011 at 10:27 PM
GAYDAR!
ProudPalinFan on June 13, 2011 at 10:27 PM
Uh-oh, David Rodham Gergen doesn’t like Newt’s answer on muslims.
SouthernGent on June 13, 2011 at 10:27 PM
I wasn’t implying that one has to be a CEO to be POTUS. I was saying we need to stop looking at everything FROM a government involvement perspective in the first place. We need to take a deep breath and look at something bit longer before passing legislation to “fix” symptoms and the problem rages on. I want the POTUS to start from that perspective. Ask first, is this a symptom or the real problem? That is all.
karenhasfreedom on June 13, 2011 at 10:27 PM
Guess who he blames when he scrapes his knee? [Hint: starts with "J" and ends in "ooooooooos!!!!!!"]
steebo77 on June 13, 2011 at 10:28 PM
tell you the truth I really wasn’t happen with any of there foriegn policy answers nor their immigration answers, nor their eminet domain answers.
Cain just didn’t do it for me tonight thought his Sc debate was much better.
unseen on June 13, 2011 at 10:28 PM
Gergen is surprised that people want a return to “McCarthyism.” Well, McCarthyism worked, and weeded out a ton of communists. Gergen seems to inhabit a Chamberlain-esque fantasyland.
And now I’m done giving CNN ratings. Seriously.
BKennedy on June 13, 2011 at 10:28 PM
Michelle Bachman has the fire inside.
Mitt and the boys have glow sticks.
Roy Rogers on June 13, 2011 at 10:29 PM
No that’s when he gets caught by the zipper.
haner on June 13, 2011 at 10:29 PM
gibbsy on cnn…time to change the channel
cmsinaz on June 13, 2011 at 10:29 PM
King: Bikini or Brazilian?
steebo77 on June 13, 2011 at 10:29 PM
Hey Gergen…. in case you didn’t notice… there are two missing buildings in New York, and there would have been a HUGE ass hole in Times Square!
DaSaintFan on June 13, 2011 at 10:30 PM
Fire burns things down, including your own party and country.
haner on June 13, 2011 at 10:30 PM
I truly detest CNN. It’s just hard to watch.
Big Orange on June 13, 2011 at 10:30 PM
Gibby from iCarly, yaaayyy!!!
ProudPalinFan on June 13, 2011 at 10:30 PM
i can agree with that on domestic policy. on foreign policy i think you hve to look at things totally different not as problems or solutions but with a long range view of natioanl security.
unseen on June 13, 2011 at 10:30 PM
Techno-Dance Rave!!!111!11!
steebo77 on June 13, 2011 at 10:31 PM
National TV audience, first debate in a mighty important state, that takes such things very seriously.
Preseason’s done man. It’s game time. Anyone in the locker room is doing themselves no favors.
JohnGalt23 on June 13, 2011 at 10:31 PM
Gibbs — we can still blame Bush!
elijah on June 13, 2011 at 10:32 PM
Beltway Bob on CNN. Click.
Philly on June 13, 2011 at 10:32 PM
unseen.. that we can agree on for the most part (again, I’ve said before, I don’t think Cain will make it toward the end of the campaign.. but I think he’d be fantastic as a Secretary of Commerce or of the Treasury).
DaSaintFan on June 13, 2011 at 10:32 PM
She said ‘commanders-in-chief.’ Combatant commanders are called that. For example, CINC-PAC = Commander in Chief, Pacific Theatre.
James on June 13, 2011 at 10:32 PM
glad i changed the channel….spinmeister bleh
cmsinaz on June 13, 2011 at 10:32 PM
Framing policy in terms of problems and solutions only leads to more government overreach. Think of Keynesian economics or activist judges…
steebo77 on June 13, 2011 at 10:32 PM
Gibbs is a quitter!!!11!!
faraway on June 13, 2011 at 10:32 PM
One of the CNN analysts said they believe Pawlenty punted on the Obamneycare question because Pawlenty didn’t want to alienate the NH voters and supposedly Romney is the favorite son there. The analyst said that Pawlenty probably wanted to introduce himself to the voters tonite and will take on the Obamneycare points when politicking up there locally.
That is an explanation to why he punted. I think Pawlenty didn’t want to go negative that early in the evening and was probably told by his handlers to keep the negatives to Obama.
Too funny, the CNN anchor is saying none of the debaters said Obama did anything right on the economy. HE DIDN’T, YOU A$$HAT!!!!!!!!!!
karenhasfreedom on June 13, 2011 at 10:33 PM
King: Pitcher or Catcher?
Seven Percent Solution on June 13, 2011 at 10:33 PM
Unless Perry or Palin throw their hat in the ring…
DaSaintFan on June 13, 2011 at 10:33 PM
If true, I am an ignoramus.
steebo77 on June 13, 2011 at 10:33 PM
More like the verge of playoffs. Play offs are when the over after Super Tuesday. But these games count and your girl is forfeiting.
Bachman has taken her place big time.
Bachman was amazing.
I can see a Romney/Bachman ticket. That would be very good balance.
You can bet if Mitt wandered from the plan Bachman would be there to heard him back to the corral the conservatives set up for a talented free thinkers like him.
This debate was a team smash up of Obama. Republicans are working as a team, it is good to see, because there is so much agreement over what needs done that fiefdoms won’t be allowed to stop the real work from happening.
petunia on June 13, 2011 at 10:33 PM
ABDICATE!!!11!!1!1
steebo77 on June 13, 2011 at 10:33 PM
CNN has on Gibbs to defend Obama. Shouldn’t we be talking about the GOP?
faraway on June 13, 2011 at 10:33 PM
Agreed. Today was when I first started seriously weighing the candidates as contenders for the Presidency.
After tonight though, I do feel that Cain, Paul, Santorum are not worthy.
haner on June 13, 2011 at 10:34 PM
Cain should just bring a tape recorder and hit play after every question:
1. Identify the problem.
2. Find out what works.
3. Ask advisors for solutions.
4. Fix the problem.
I don’t think anyone would know the difference.
Hollowpoint on June 13, 2011 at 10:34 PM
>Framing policy in terms of problems and solutions only leads to more government overreach.
Well said, steebo77
elijah on June 13, 2011 at 10:34 PM
Best.Rave.Video.Evah!
ProudPalinFan on June 13, 2011 at 10:34 PM
Oooops….Gloria Borger calling Gibbs’ bluff.
SouthernGent on June 13, 2011 at 10:34 PM
Bwahaha… which network are you watching, far?
DaSaintFan on June 13, 2011 at 10:34 PM
Gibbs winning line: let’s repeat the mistakes that KEPT us in this mess instead of repeating the mistakes that got us into this mess.
elijah on June 13, 2011 at 10:35 PM
You’re armchair quarterbacking. You should assume that each team has a game plan.
alwaysfiredup on June 13, 2011 at 10:35 PM
steebo77 on June 13, 2011 at 10:35 PM
King needs to start grunting when Gibb’s speaks. I know I am.
faraway on June 13, 2011 at 10:35 PM
I, for one, look forward to Ed’s post tomorrow covering for Tim Pawlenty. I felt so bad for Ed tonight. Truly I did.
SouthernGent on June 13, 2011 at 10:35 PM
petunia on June 13, 2011 at 10:33 PM
I can see a Bachman/Romney ticket. That would be a great balance!!!
dddave on June 13, 2011 at 10:35 PM
d’oh!
cmsinaz on June 13, 2011 at 10:36 PM
Still watching CNN – did they have a Bush rep on after the Dem debates to counter what the Dems said about Bush policies?
I don’t remember that.
ramrants on June 13, 2011 at 10:36 PM
I rank the debaters as follows. Bachmann, Romney, Gingrich, TPaw, Santorum, Paul, Cain.
Bachmann and Romney really shined tonight. Pawlenty had his moments but backed down on the whole “ObamneyCare” thing. Santorum also looked good but he didn’t really stand out a whole lot. Cain looked like the third tier candidate that he is along with Johnson and Paul.
TheQuestion on June 13, 2011 at 10:36 PM
I just had a seizure.
steebo77 on June 13, 2011 at 10:37 PM
No Bob, I do not want Obama to do anything he has ever done. More Blame Bush. CNN is bored with it already. Beltway Bob claims the American people blame Bush more than Obama. This guy is the biggest loser. Delusional and stupid. He and Debbie Dunce would make a good couple if they weren’t already married.
It will take time, he says. Time’s up, Bob. Gergen assails him on Obama’s failure on the economy and the debt. Still mentions Blame Bush. When CNN anchors attack other liberals, that’s when you know it has hit rock bottom.
Philly on June 13, 2011 at 10:37 PM
Ok, knob.
Mirimichi on June 13, 2011 at 10:37 PM
Bob, shut up. Create the jobs of the future. The ones that don’t exist now. And Bob does not understand that is the problem. Thankfully, CNN cuts Blabbering Bob and goes to break.
Philly on June 13, 2011 at 10:38 PM
I am very proud of the GOP candidates tonight for sticking to the Obama message.
faraway on June 13, 2011 at 10:38 PM
King: Mitt or Willard.
steebo77 on June 13, 2011 at 10:38 PM
it sounds like we know the theme going into the campaign…don’t blame us, it’s bush’s fault…
cmsinaz on June 13, 2011 at 10:39 PM
Yup, the best part was that he was going to find the “right solutions” and that he went over the numbers himself and confirmed that TARP was necessary.
haner on June 13, 2011 at 10:39 PM
A conservative would eliminate the department of Commerce altogether.
Jaibones on June 13, 2011 at 10:39 PM
Does anyone know much about Bachmann’s legal career? I know she has an LL.M. in tax law, which is an advanced law degree on top of her J.D. In other words, unlike Obama, she is qualified to be a real law professor. I don’t know what kind of campaigner she is, but it’s a mistake to underestimate her intellect.
flyfisher on June 13, 2011 at 10:39 PM
And if you remember, Cain said the next question he would ask is what are the national interests of the US. That question is where you answer the national security perspective.
And for domestic issues, besides trying to frame, what is the problem? Then NEXT question is: is this a problem where any level of government has a role and if so, which level, and then the 3rd question should be: if government has a role, is it a constitutional role, and if the answer is yes, then a determination would have to be what is the desired outcome of any government involvement.
One of the a$$hat questions tonite was about federal funding for job training. That would pass the FAIL test to all of the above because I firmly believe free market should help determine where and in what fields that people train for work. AND I don’t believe school funding is a federal issue.
karenhasfreedom on June 13, 2011 at 10:40 PM
CNN focus groupies!
steebo77 on June 13, 2011 at 10:42 PM
CNN has the Frank Luntz wanna be with the dials.
Philly on June 13, 2011 at 10:42 PM
Sounds like a non-Washington style solution.
Romney’s tape recorder would be something like.
1. Determine which way the wind is blowing.
2. Adjust stance to gain favorable wind.
3. Step forward tepidly in case the wind changes.
4. If it does, go back to 1.
BKennedy on June 13, 2011 at 10:42 PM
I was wondering if anyone would comment on this.
She may have simply misspoken, or she may have been using the old term. In the past, it was easy to refer to the “cincs” so she might be familiar with the term.
blink on June 13, 2011 at 10:43 PM
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