Vermont’s soon-to-be single-payer health system reminds progressive groups of final goal

posted at 11:48 am on May 26, 2011 by Tina Korbe

The Democratic governor of Vermont wants a single-payer health system for his state and, today, he plans to sign a bill that would advance that goal.

The bill Gov. Peter Shumlin plans to sign on Thursday would create a panel whose goal would be to figure out how to pay for a new system intended to reduce the rate of overall health-cost increases. …

Vermont’s idea is based on the concept of a health system where a public entity funds all care. It is popular among liberals in the U.S. and common abroad. …

Figuring out exactly how the plan would be financed is the job of the five-member board. The governor’s office says new taxes would account for some of the cost.

Instead of paying premiums, employers and workers likely would subsidize the plan through taxes. Gov. Shumlin says the administrative simplification of having one payer would save the state $500 million a year.

Spurred by the possibility of this state-level “success,” progressive groups have mounted pressure on Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius to grant the state of Vermont an Obamacare waiver — an ironically necessary step to establish a single-payer system in the state.

Physicians for a National Health Program and the blog Firedoglake are launching a petition to Secretary Kathleen Sebelius that calls the Vermont plan “an important model for our nation.” …

Margaret Flowers, of the doctor’s group, emails hopefully: “Of course, a national single payer health system would not require waivers and would be a huge political win for the President.”

If this isn’t a reminder of what’s at stake in the fight to repeal the unaptly titled Affordable Care Act, I don’t know what is.

 


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Comment pages: 1 2

What, first to go the way of Greece?

Ward Cleaver on May 26, 2011 at 11:49 AM

Figuring out exactly how the plan would be financed is the job of the five-member board. The governor’s office says new taxes would account for some of the cost.

Wait???!

They don’t even know how to finance it?

Apologetic California on May 26, 2011 at 11:51 AM

Let ‘em. I need something to point and laugh at for the next 20 years.

Red Cloud on May 26, 2011 at 11:52 AM

He should call the most recent former governor of Tennessee to find out what kind of fiscal disaster he can expect.

Stayright on May 26, 2011 at 11:52 AM

Wait???!

They don’t even know how to finance it?

Apologetic California on May 26, 2011 at 11:51 AM

Maybe they can borrow money from China. Send the Chinese maple syrup?

Ward Cleaver on May 26, 2011 at 11:52 AM

Waits, care shortages, bankruptcy, inefficiency, waste, abuse of power, death panels – here we come!

/Vermont, regressives

Good Lt on May 26, 2011 at 11:52 AM

The final solution for America…

d1carter on May 26, 2011 at 11:53 AM

So getting 5 political hacks to “decide how to do single payer health care” is ““an important model for our nation.”???

These tools are hysterical.

And dont know if ya’ll know Vermont well – old saying “you are either rich or poor” there. But something else is going on… the taxes these hacks are relying on… will be paid for by large corps within Vermont, like IBM – as key “employers” – which is nothing more than a “tax the rich scheme” and reliance on the tax revenue of said company

Odie1941 on May 26, 2011 at 11:53 AM

Would a state that wanted to implement a free market health care solution get a waiver from this administration?

Let vermont have its waiver and let them show the other 49 states how well (cough) it works.

WashJeff on May 26, 2011 at 11:53 AM

Wait???!

They don’t even know how to finance it?

Apologetic California on May 26, 2011 at 11:51 AM

That didn’t stop Medicare, Medicaid or ObamaCare either.

Chuck Schick on May 26, 2011 at 11:55 AM

Instead of paying premiums, employers and workers likely would subsidize the plan through taxes.

So you pay a premium or you pay a tax. What’s the difference? Except being able to choose among plans versus having a single play jammed down your throat.

rbj on May 26, 2011 at 11:55 AM

This still hasn’t been explained. How can the federal government grant a waiver to a state without breaking the constitution? Why hasn’t that been brought up in court? Any lawyers that can explain?

cpaulus on May 26, 2011 at 11:55 AM

And dont know if ya’ll know Vermont well – old saying “you are either rich or poor” there. But something else is going on… the taxes these hacks are relying on… will be paid for by large corps within Vermont, like IBM – as key “employers” – which is nothing more than a “tax the rich scheme” and reliance on the tax revenue of said company

Odie1941 on May 26, 2011 at 11:53 AM

Watch those large corporations start moving out of Vermont, in droves.

Ward Cleaver on May 26, 2011 at 11:56 AM

I can only imagine who will be sitting on this panel, I have a feeling it will consist of academics and community activists; businessmen need not apply, thank you.

Bishop on May 26, 2011 at 11:56 AM

Figuring out exactly how the plan would be financed is the job of the five-member board.

Let me guess …….

A retired barber
A dog-walker
A former cheerleader
A meth addict
A hemp distributor

fogw on May 26, 2011 at 11:56 AM

Because putting the healthcare consumer even farther away from the payment for services is the answer to reducing costs? Brilliant.

Vashta.Nerada on May 26, 2011 at 11:57 AM

This still hasn’t been explained. How can the federal government grant a waiver to a state without breaking the constitution? Why hasn’t that been brought up in court? Any lawyers that can explain?

cpaulus on May 26, 2011 at 11:55 AM

To Obama, the constitution is a negative document, and an impediment to his socialist utopia.

Ward Cleaver on May 26, 2011 at 11:57 AM

I thought Mass was the “first” failure. I can’t wait to see how this pans out.

upinak on May 26, 2011 at 11:58 AM

I don’t see this story getting much mention about how one court wants to redefine hellscare as a tax, not a mandate, even though BHO himself argued that it was not a tax.

I say the fix is in.

madmonkphotog on May 26, 2011 at 11:58 AM

Let vermont have its waiver and let them show the other 49 states how well (cough) it works.

WashJeff on May 26, 2011 at 11:53 AM

48 states. Mass has RomneyCare, the godfather of this degrading pos.

upinak on May 26, 2011 at 11:59 AM

Margaret Flowers, of the doctor’s group, emails hopefully: “Of course, a national single payer health system would not require waivers and would be a huge political win for the President.”

Two things jump off the page here:

1) “….not require waivers….”. But who thinks there won’t be waivers granted to the national single payer plan? The choice of the word “require” says it all, though, about ObamaCare, doesn’t it?

2) “…win for the President….”. Scary thought. This means O’Bama will still be in office when single payer becomes law (..would require a waiver of the Constitution), or, single payer is due to strike in the next 18 months or so.

BobMbx on May 26, 2011 at 11:59 AM

To Obama, the constitution is a negative document, and an impediment to his socialist utopia.

Ward Cleaver on May 26, 2011 at 11:57 AM

Fortunately for us, that’s exactly what it is. When Tommy and Jim wrote the Constitution, they had O’bama in mind.

BobMbx on May 26, 2011 at 12:01 PM

I say the fix is in.

madmonkphotog on May 26, 2011 at 11:58 AM

It isn’t much of a fix. If it is a tax, there is no mandate, as you can’t tax non-activity and you can’t enforce it. If it is a mandate, it isn’t a tax, and you can’t fund it. Lose-lose for the statists.

Vashta.Nerada on May 26, 2011 at 12:02 PM

I can only imagine who will be sitting on this panel, I have a feeling it will consist of academics and community activists; businessmen need not apply, thank you.

Bishop on May 26, 2011 at 11:56 AM

We know that these five people will know what is best for the people of vermont and that they can manage the people’s money better than the people could. Market’s do such a poor job of providing what we want. /sarc off

WashJeff on May 26, 2011 at 12:02 PM

Economic illiteracy is the foundation of Modern Liberalism.

visions on May 26, 2011 at 12:02 PM

And dont know if ya’ll know Vermont well – old saying “you are either rich or poor” there. But something else is going on… the taxes these hacks are relying on… will be paid for by large corps within Vermont, like IBM – as key “employers” – which is nothing more than a “tax the rich scheme” and reliance on the tax revenue of said company

Odie1941 on May 26, 2011 at 11:53 AM

When it happens in New Hampshire, it’ll be even more glorious. NH is the insurance capitol of the world. When the insurance companies go out of business….so does NH.

Couldn’t happen to a nicer communist state.

BobMbx on May 26, 2011 at 12:04 PM

I am FOR our federal government allowing Vermont and California to go all in. I can’t think of two groups of people who deserve it more.

MNHawk on May 26, 2011 at 12:04 PM

48 states. Mass has RomneyCare, the godfather of this degrading pos.

upinak on May 26, 2011 at 11:59 AM

I think RomneyCare still allows private insurers to operate in the market. This vermont thing sounds like true single payer (i.e., the government is the only health insurer).

WashJeff on May 26, 2011 at 12:04 PM

I would let them…It will just prove what we already know and help us in the long run.

tomas on May 26, 2011 at 12:05 PM

I understand that vermont is pretty much a liberal utopia of the Nation. Any one know how they are doing economic wise? Unemployment wise?

upinak on May 26, 2011 at 12:05 PM

Pushing granny over a cliff in a wheelchair,…no,…wait….

a capella on May 26, 2011 at 12:07 PM

I think RomneyCare still allows private insurers to operate in the market. This vermont thing sounds like true single payer (i.e., the government is the only health insurer).

WashJeff on May 26, 2011 at 12:04 PM

a friend of mine who lives there says you can have second insurance but that the RomneyCare will always be the dominate one and if you do not pay your monthly on RomneyCare they charge you, like an interest or a late fee and you aren’t covered.

Sounds to me like either way… Mass and Vermont are screwed.

upinak on May 26, 2011 at 12:07 PM

I understand that vermont is pretty much a liberal utopia of the Nation. Any one know how they are doing economic wise? Unemployment wise?

upinak on May 26, 2011 at 12:05 PM

Stop eating anything with maple in it, and Vermont collapses within a single season.

A trip to IHOP would be painful, but I’d get over it pretty quickly.

BobMbx on May 26, 2011 at 12:08 PM

When it happens in New Hampshire, it’ll be even more glorious. NH is the insurance capitol of the world. When the insurance companies go out of business….so does NH.

Couldn’t happen to a nicer communist state.

BobMbx on May 26, 2011 at 12:04 PM

Ironic that Conn USED to be the insurance capital of the world – I know many headed over to NH due to taxes and other corporate treatment… well – just 48 (or 55) states to go!!!

Odie1941 on May 26, 2011 at 12:08 PM

In a way this is a good thing. Within 6 months VT will have the horror stories that are a daily occurrence in Canada and the UK. Nobody really pays attention when someone in London or Vancouver has to wait 12 weeks to see a doctor. But when it’s happening in Burlington, people will notice.

angryed on May 26, 2011 at 12:09 PM

Sounds to me like either way… Mass and Vermont are screwed.

upinak on May 26, 2011 at 12:07 PM

Since I do not live in those states…let’m screw themselves. Of course my fellow IL voters are doing a bang-up job themselves.

WashJeff on May 26, 2011 at 12:10 PM

Stop eating anything with maple in it, and Vermont collapses within a single season.

A trip to IHOP would be painful, but I’d get over it pretty quickly.

BobMbx on May 26, 2011 at 12:08 PM

you forgot the dairy cows. Just because Wis says they have the market in cheese, vermont is about even with them.

upinak on May 26, 2011 at 12:10 PM

So what would be the incentive to keep working and pay higher taxes when single payer means everyone is covered? It really is going to take the destruction of this country for the fat head commies to get it thru their heads, isn’t it!

capejasmine on May 26, 2011 at 12:11 PM

Since I do not live in those states…let’m screw themselves. Of course my fellow IL voters are doing a bang-up job themselves.

WashJeff on May 26, 2011 at 12:10 PM

hehe. I asked a new prof at school, why he moved up here. He said that he could change Alaska for the better. A group of 20 somethings got behind me when he said this. I told him to go back to the hell hole he came from and don’t forget to bring his politics with him as we don’t need more liberal freaks. That was 2 weeks ago, most of the kids have dropped out of his class from what I hear and he is about to be layed off.

He is from Mass.

upinak on May 26, 2011 at 12:13 PM

Figuring out exactly how the plan would be financed is the job of the five-member board. The governor’s office says new taxes would account for some of the cost.

and…

Gov. Shumlin says the administrative simplification of having one payer would save the state $500 million a year.

It’s a magical bill. I believe the governor plans to sign it in unicorn blood.

spinach.chin on May 26, 2011 at 12:13 PM

In a way this is a good thing. Within 6 months VT will have the horror stories that are a daily occurrence in Canada and the UK. Nobody really pays attention when someone in London or Vancouver has to wait 12 weeks to see a doctor. But when it’s happening in Burlington, people will notice.

angryed on May 26, 2011 at 12:09 PM

The Old Media will make sure that the debacle that is single payer will be blamed on: evil, racist, imperialist corporations or evil, racist, imperialist rich people or evil, racist, imperialist Republicans.

The solution to the debacle that is single payer is always: more money, more control, more rationing.

visions on May 26, 2011 at 12:14 PM

It really is going to take the destruction of this country for the fat head commies to get it thru their heads, isn’t it!

capejasmine on May 26, 2011 at 12:11 PM

Those fat heads are nuclear proof. Nothing will penetrate those heads. If we could only harness the power of these fat heads against nuclear attack for us ordinary people!

upinak on May 26, 2011 at 12:14 PM

Coming next in the rural People’s Republic of Vermont… Collective farms!

NNtrancer on May 26, 2011 at 12:14 PM

A trip to IHOP would be painful, but I’d get over it pretty quickly.

BobMbx on May 26, 2011 at 12:08 PM

The stuff at IHOP isn’t real maple syrup. It’s synthetic garbage.

Here is the ingredient list for Aunt Jamima which is the kind of “syrup” served in most restaurants.

INGREDIENTS: CORN SYRUP, HIGH FRUCTOSE CORN SYRUP, WATER, CELLULOSE GUM, CARAMEL COLOR, SALT, SODIUM BENZOATE AND SORBIC ACID (PRESERVATIVES), ARTIFICIAL AND NATURAL FLAVORS, SODIUM HEXAMETAPHOSPHATE.

Not a hint of actual maple syrup.

angryed on May 26, 2011 at 12:15 PM

Gov. Shumlin says the administrative simplification of having one payer would save the state $500 million a year.

Well there ya go! Maybe they should start eliminating waste and fraud before they launch it, too. Before you know it, taxpayers from all over the country will be flocking to tiny Vermont for health care, it will end up with a surplus big enough to fund education……

cartooner on May 26, 2011 at 12:16 PM

say no to Ben & jerry (if you’re not already)

cmsinaz on May 26, 2011 at 12:17 PM

But, if an entire state is granted an Obamacare waiver, doesn’t that undermine Obamacare essentially, so how could Team Obama allow it?

profitsbeard on May 26, 2011 at 12:20 PM

What these moron liberals don’t understand is that you can’t get something for nothing. Doesn’t matter if the govt runs it or the private sector runs it. Health care is expensive in the US because it is good. No scratch that, it is excellent.

Any time you hear the phrase “save money on health care” what they’re saying is reduce the quality. A govt can’t buy an MRI for less. It can buyer fewer machines. It can’t hire good doctors for less, it can hire fewer doctors. No matter what, every $1 that is “saved” means $1 less of health care product available to the people.

angryed on May 26, 2011 at 12:21 PM

The stuff at IHOP isn’t real maple syrup. It’s synthetic garbage.
angryed on May 26, 2011 at 12:15 PM

All of IHOP’s products are nasty, it’s Detroit on a plate every time you order.

Bishop on May 26, 2011 at 12:21 PM

My condolences to those insurance company employees soon to be out of work.

Just A Grunt on May 26, 2011 at 12:23 PM

This should be highly encouraged.

Rebar on May 26, 2011 at 12:24 PM

most of the kids have dropped out of his class from what I hear and he is about to be layed off.
upinak on May 26, 2011 at 12:13 PM

That’s funny…but your state does give us Lisa M.

WashJeff on May 26, 2011 at 12:27 PM

The beauty of state’s rights.
They implode on their own.
But then of course, the Federal govt will have to come in & bail them out when everything goes tits up.
Thank God I live in ND.
At least Thank God, for now.
There’s busy bodies here, too.
And their population is increasing.
I’m seeing lots of economic refugess from Progressive states.

Badger40 on May 26, 2011 at 12:27 PM

Go single payer and watch the physicians leave the state in droves, thus putting more burden on nurses, PAs, etc.

The only outfits operating there will be huge health conglomerates because no small clinics/physicians will be able to operate at the level of reimbursement the state will offer. It’s practically a guaranteed outcome. Big business and the state getting together to screw the small guys. Now that is true fascism. Oh the irony.

WitchDoctor on May 26, 2011 at 12:28 PM

This still hasn’t been explained. How can the federal government grant a waiver to a state without breaking the constitution? Why hasn’t that been brought up in court? Any lawyers that can explain?

cpaulus on May 26, 2011 at 11:55 AM

I don’t know about lawyers, but my then seven-year-old niece probably nailed it one time: “Oh,” she said, “That’s different!”

PersonFromPorlock on May 26, 2011 at 12:30 PM

They need to figure out how to squeeze, on average, $8000 per citizen.

No doubt the brunt of that will be carried by businesses.

ButterflyDragon on May 26, 2011 at 12:31 PM

With Socialism, there is never compromise; there is only incrementalism.

The expression “give ’till it hurts” only applies when it’s YOUR OWN MONEY you’re being generous with. Anyone who believes that giving away other people’s money makes him a better person will always want MORE of it. It is the only addiction in the world where the addict himself never feels any withdrawal — until the entire society he lives in falls apart.

logis on May 26, 2011 at 12:32 PM

That’s funny…but your state does give us Lisa M.

WashJeff on May 26, 2011 at 12:27 PM

Compared to some supposed conservatives in the Senate… she isn’t that bad.

upinak on May 26, 2011 at 12:34 PM

This should be highly encouraged.

Rebar on May 26, 2011 at 12:24 PM

The Second Republic of Vermont!

They’ll end all war by banning nuclear weapons, too!

Genius!- I wept!

profitsbeard on May 26, 2011 at 12:36 PM

They don’t even know how to finance it?

Apologetic California on May 26, 2011 at 11:51 AM

Of course they know how to finance it, the Leftist National/Socialist default method of financing everything:

RAISE TAXES!

oldleprechaun on May 26, 2011 at 12:39 PM

So what would be the incentive to keep working and pay higher taxes when single payer means everyone is covered? It really is going to take the destruction of this country for the fat head commies to get it thru their heads, isn’t it!

capejasmine on May 26, 2011 at 12:11 PM

Good point. What would stop anyone at 55, with maybe enough to retire on, but not enough to retire with health insurance, to just go to VErmont, and sponge off the suckers there?

MNHawk on May 26, 2011 at 12:39 PM

Compared to some supposed conservatives in the Senate… she isn’t that bad.

upinak on May 26, 2011 at 12:34 PM

Only a few…

spinach.chin on May 26, 2011 at 12:40 PM

This is an important experiment. If Massacres is any type of indicator, there will be some good office space and nice homes available at fire sale prices in a year. Most belonging to surgeons and Board Certified specialists. Too bad there is already a surplus of the same.

pat on May 26, 2011 at 12:43 PM

Only a few…

spinach.chin on May 26, 2011 at 12:40 PM

the next round of senators for re/election is coming up and this is the big pool. If they are like the supposed conservatives that were elected to congress, I wait to see what happens.

I amnot impressed with those who were elected to congress at the moment but a select few.

upinak on May 26, 2011 at 12:44 PM

“Vermont Can Lead the Way”

Right over the cliff.

Bishop on May 26, 2011 at 12:46 PM

“Vermont Can Lead the Way”

Right over the cliff.

Bishop on May 26, 2011 at 12:46 PM

With Granny and her wheelchair.

profitsbeard on May 26, 2011 at 12:48 PM

“Vermont Can Lead the Way”, all right, to this:

NHS: Doctors Writing Prescriptions For….. Drinking Water?
“Drink 2 glasses and call me in the morning…..”

mrt721 on May 26, 2011 at 12:53 PM

the next round of senators for re/election is coming up and this is the big pool. If they are like the supposed conservatives that were elected to congress, I wait to see what happens.

I amnot impressed with those who were elected to congress at the moment but a select few.

upinak on May 26, 2011 at 12:44 PM

I agree.

Even if Murkowski were more conservative than she is, I would still consider her a particularly distasteful type of politician.

spinach.chin on May 26, 2011 at 12:54 PM

Wait wait, if it’s going to save the state $500 MM per year, then why would they need to raise taxes?

With a population of 621,270 the administrative savings alone would put $805 per person towards premiums? A pool with THAT many people could easily meet $800 total premiums as a self insured entity.

Alden Pyle on May 26, 2011 at 12:57 PM

Alden Pyle on May 26, 2011 at 12:57 PM

Pyle hunny, you are talking math. And for liberals… math is hhhaaarrrdddd!

upinak on May 26, 2011 at 12:59 PM

Watch those large corporations start moving out of Vermont, in droves.

Ward Cleaver on May 26, 2011 at 11:56 AM

Imagine Ben & Jerry’s relocating…to Texas!

BuckeyeSam on May 26, 2011 at 1:00 PM

Go single payer and watch the physicians leave the state in droves, thus putting more burden on nurses, PAs, etc.

The only outfits operating there will be huge health conglomerates because no small clinics/physicians will be able to operate at the level of reimbursement the state will offer. It’s practically a guaranteed outcome. Big business and the state getting together to screw the small guys. Now that is true fascism. Oh the irony.

WitchDoctor on May 26, 2011 at 12:28 PM

The federal govt has done this to small business, why not keep going with it?

Badger40 on May 26, 2011 at 1:05 PM

Three points:

1) At least they are trying to figure out how to pay for it first.

2) Such a plan is arguably within the scope of state government under our Constitution, whereas it is not under the scope of the feds.

3) When this plan is implemented, expect migration to other, freer states.

RhymesWithRight on May 26, 2011 at 1:06 PM

Of course they know how to finance it, the Leftist National/Socialist default method of financing everything:

RAISE TAXES!

oldleprechaun on May 26, 2011 at 12:39 PM

Well, that’s not exactly true, they can always raise sales taxes or impose tax surcharges or raise property taxes or raise the surcharge on sale of property or raise income taxes or add to existing Income tax surcharge taxes or have “temporary” sales tax surcharges or income tax fees or fees on property tax surcharges or special taxes on property or income tax fee surcharges or ……

Colbyjack on May 26, 2011 at 1:07 PM

When you pass a bill, that means that everything works.

/leftists

mankai on May 26, 2011 at 1:10 PM

Why bother raising taxes. As has been already pointed out, this bill will save the state $500 million per year. It pays for itself!!!!

spinach.chin on May 26, 2011 at 1:11 PM

3) When this plan is implemented, expect migration to other, freer states.

RhymesWithRight on May 26, 2011 at 1:06 PM

There’s a way they can avoid that.
Make it mandatory for state citizens to receive permission from the state before leaving.
They’re trying to do it to private companies like Boeing, why not take it one step further?

Badger40 on May 26, 2011 at 1:17 PM

why not take it one step further?

Badger40 on May 26, 2011 at 1:17 PM

And the beauty of it is, the feds & the state can cite the Commerce Clause!
You leaving that state is interstate commerce!
And so thereby the feds have an interest in where you live!
Count it!

Badger40 on May 26, 2011 at 1:18 PM

The answer for doctors: stop taking insurance money and public funds. Tell patients that they have to sign a waiver so that they can’t sue doctors.

Soon, very soon, that is the way doctors will practice medicine.

Cash on the barrel.

You take all the risks.

This will turn out to be cheaper than socialized medicine in all forms.

ajacksonian on May 26, 2011 at 1:19 PM

Odie1941 on May 26, 2011 at 11:53 AM

That’s about it–rich or poor.

The state has had many libs move into it. I would think this would absolutely break the state financially. I don’t know how they will be able to afford it. IMO, this would snowball much faster than MA.

I can think of a few VT companies in addition to maple syrup people. (A lot of maple syrup also comes from Canada).

Ben & Jerry’s (as liberal as they come)

King Arthur Flour (this was a very old company–once family owned now I believe it’s now owned by employees)

Cabot Cheese (this was a farmer co-op–I don’t know if that’s still true or not)

INC on May 26, 2011 at 1:21 PM

NHS: Doctors Writing Prescriptions For….. Drinking Water?
“Drink 2 glasses and call me in the morning…..”

mrt721 on May 26, 2011 at 12:53 PM

That’s CYA from the doctors to cover for NHS’ ways of ensuring that the number of old people they deal with stays low.

Even as incompetent as the National Health is, I think they’d be hard-pressed to explain how they keep “forgetting” to feed and water their patients.

teke184 on May 26, 2011 at 1:22 PM

ajacksonian on May 26, 2011 at 1:19 PM

Then they’ll outlaw that practice, forcing Drs to work for nothing, then b!tch & moan about how no one wants to go to medical school to become a Dr anymore.
So then they make it academically easier to become a Dr & then you have legions of MD’s who don’t know your anus froma hole in the ground, literally.

Badger40 on May 26, 2011 at 1:23 PM

A lot of maple syrup also comes from Canada).

INC on May 26, 2011 at 1:21 PM

For the life of me I have tried to find American maple syrup in the store.
I can’t.
Everything I find is from Canada.

Badger40 on May 26, 2011 at 1:24 PM

There’s also a long-time mail order co–he Vermont Country Store.

I’m trying to think of any other major companies I know of–because I have no idea how Vermont would pay for this unless they cripple the companies with taxes and drive their citizens to poverty level.

The rich will claim they have domiciles elsewhere.

INC on May 26, 2011 at 1:24 PM

3) When this plan is implemented, expect migration to other, freer states.

RhymesWithRight on May 26, 2011 at 1:06 PM

There’s not going to be a lot of migration, if only because there’s almost no one there.

Vermont is 49th in population, ahead of only Wyoming.

teke184 on May 26, 2011 at 1:25 PM

upinak on May 26, 2011 at 12:13 PM

I love it! Vote with your feet! Good show!

search4truth on May 26, 2011 at 1:25 PM

Badger40 on May 26, 2011 at 1:24 PM

I haven’t bought any in a while because it’s so expensive, but I used to get Vermont. I noticed more Canadian being sold. The grocery store must be getting it cheaper.

We lived in NH for almost 10 years. That’s why I’m familiar with these companies.

INC on May 26, 2011 at 1:27 PM

So you pay a premium or you pay a tax. What’s the difference? Except being able to choose among plans versus having a single play jammed down your throat.

rbj on May 26, 2011 at 11:55 AM

As far as the gulag-loving hell-filth advocates of this evil are concerned, it’s a feature not a bug.

ebrown2 on May 26, 2011 at 1:27 PM

Soon, very soon, that is the way doctors will practice medicine.

Cash on the barrel.

You take all the risks.

This will turn out to be cheaper than socialized medicine in all forms.

ajacksonian on May 26, 2011 at 1:19 PM

My wife is a VP of one of our local community hospital systems. That very idea has been discussed. No more Medicare, no Medicaid. Cash clinics, with terms granted at their discretion. Which will work, of course, until Obama takes over everything.

search4truth on May 26, 2011 at 1:28 PM

Badger40 on May 26, 2011 at 1:23 PM

I will enjoy our doctor free future!

It will be very cheap!

And even the politicians won’t be able to get good service… and they will wonder why…

ajacksonian on May 26, 2011 at 1:29 PM

Stop eating anything with maple in it, and Vermont collapses within a single season.

A trip to IHOP would be painful, but I’d get over it pretty quickly.

BobMbx on May 26, 2011 at 12:08 PM

n 2008, an economist said that the state had “a really stagnant economy, which is what we are forecasting for Vermont for the next 30 years.”

PS, what is your cite for New Hampshire now being the insurance capitol of the US? I was unaware of that. Tourism is still our #1 industry as far as I know.

Del Dolemonte on May 26, 2011 at 1:30 PM

And even the politicians won’t be able to get good service… and they will wonder why…

ajacksonian on May 26, 2011 at 1:29 PM

“[A]ll the whores and politicians will look up and shout “Save us!”… and I’ll look down and whisper “No.” They had a choice, all of them.”

teke184 on May 26, 2011 at 1:33 PM

search4truth on May 26, 2011 at 1:28 PM

I remember hearing from my relatives of what it was like to live during the Great Depresssion and how they figured out medical care. They went to butchers to set bones. They went to pharmacies to get medicine without the need of a prescription. They went to doctors only rarely.

And it was all paid for by cash or installment plans.

That worked. People did not die in droves.

We are heading back to that world and no legislation on this planet will stop under the table payments. I grew up in the People’s Republic of NY in Buffalo during the Rust Belt and saw how this worked for the post-war era. Under the table payments can’t be stopped, and barter did the same thing in the USSR. You either learn the lessons of the past and take pointers from them, or you see them repeated and the pointers tell you how to get around the system.

ajacksonian on May 26, 2011 at 1:34 PM

So what happens to somebody from out of state who comes to VT for the skiing, gets hurt and needs medical care? Is their insurance now no longer going to be any good? Are non residents even covered or will they have to be medevaced to an adjacent state? Will these costs be figured in or will the poor out of towner just be left to writhe in agony on the slopes?

I think this could be a blow to that whole industry.

Just A Grunt on May 26, 2011 at 1:42 PM

So what happens to somebody from out of state who comes to VT for the skiing, gets hurt and needs medical care? Is their insurance now no longer going to be any good? Are non residents even covered or will they have to be medevaced to an adjacent state? Will these costs be figured in or will the poor out of towner just be left to writhe in agony on the slopes?

I think this could be a blow to that whole industry.

Just A Grunt on May 26, 2011 at 1:42 PM

If it’s anything like the UK, I think they get patched up at Vermont’s expense.

I seem to recall some fellow students on a Study Abroad there getting patched up for free when they drank an entire bottle of Aftershock and thought it would be a good idea to punch a window.

teke184 on May 26, 2011 at 1:46 PM

Waits, care shortages, bankruptcy, inefficiency, waste, abuse of power, death panels – here we come!

/Vermont, regressives

Good Lt on May 26, 2011 at 11:52 AM

We already deal with all of those things, especially if you’re poor. What’s your point?

ernesto on May 26, 2011 at 1:49 PM

Economic illiteracy is the foundation of Modern Liberalism.

visions on May 26, 2011 at 12:02 PM

Bingo!

Mallard T. Drake on May 26, 2011 at 1:49 PM

Even when things get like this, Progressives will still double down on stupid.

Badger40 on May 26, 2011 at 1:53 PM

We already deal with all of those things, especially if you’re poor. What’s your point?

ernesto on May 26, 2011 at 1:49 PM

Those things will get even worse for the poor bcs of these things.
The thing with Progressive agendas is that it only keeps screwing the poor & disadvantaged, over & over again.
Meanwhile, the rich are still rich bcs they don’t have to stay & put up with that $hit.

Badger40 on May 26, 2011 at 1:55 PM

This is my response to one of the posts at WSJ

1)Free healthcare paid for by a national sales tax and delivered from government hospitals ignores three basic realities.
A) Money. As you pointed out, Free healthcare will be paid for by a national sales tax. But you ignored two things, a national sales tax increases the prices of consumer goods to the point that the middle class and the poor as well as businesses will be forced to stop spending on consumables and durable goods which leads to number 2, an increase on the national sales tax in order to keep healthcare cost affordable at the expense of the economy will force us back to number one with more and more people being added to the group and businesses start fleeing or closing due to high expenditures in taxes that is killing their profits and the vicious cycle will continue until the country will go bankrupt, resort to rationing or change the whole system to a free market service with little or minimal government oversight which every American can choose for him or herself the best care that available for him or her,
B) A cradle to grave health care program is a very expensive proposition for one simple reason, every individual is unique and they will have different health care needs as they grow older and the costs will vary to none to millions of dollars worth of health care depending on the condition of the patient, client or consumer at time of care. Even if we abolish the US military and stop foreign aid and use all that money just for health care, the budget will not be enough to cover a year or two’s worth of health care until it goes back in the red. When it happens, rationing, government sanctioned euthanasia for old patients and long term patients, a one baby policy, will be on the table in order to cut cost.
C) I hate to tell you this, but when you go for a government funded healthcare option, private insurances will only be available for the very rich or well connected for one simple reason, the government hates competition for people’s money. Besides, as you pointed out, there’s a national sales tax and since you are buying health care insurance, you are still paying that tax and no person, rich or poor will be bothered to buy private health care insurance.
D) When people are paying for pennies for every dollar on universal government healthcare while hospitals, doctors,clinics, medical manufacturers, pharmaceutical companies are spending thousands and millions of dollars in expenses and are being paid way below cost( which the government does now with Medicare and Medicaid), the incentive to improve, innovate and discover as well as to continue doing what they do will stop and again, only the well connected government run university systems, hospitals and well connected companies will be left to run the show and it won’t lower the cost , you just pay more taxes.
E) Having two systems compete is well and nice but in reality, since the government makes the laws concerning private insurance. It will more truthful to say that the two systems will be superior healthcare for those in power and government including those who are well connected and the inferior government run healthcare for everyone else.
F) No one will be forced to buy insurance because they cannot afford private insurance in the first place.
G) Asking a government funded and delivered healthcare option had never experienced what’s it’s like to have a government funded and delivered healthcare when the government is out of money.

DinobotPrime on May 26, 2011 at 1:57 PM

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