NATO, Pakistan exchange fire on Af-Pak border

posted at 10:12 am on May 17, 2011 by Ed Morrissey

Senator John Kerry flew to Pakistan this weekend to smooth over the rupture in relations between the US and Pakistan following the raid that killed Osama bin Laden within walking distance of Pakistan’s military academy.  What kind of progress did Kerry make?  The New York Times reports that Pakistani forces fired on NATO helicopters over Pakistani territory, sparking a skirmish that left two Pakistanis wounded:

Pakistani ground troops opened fire on twoNATO helicopters that crossed into Pakistan’s airspace from Afghanistan early Tuesday morning, the Pakistani Army said in a statement. A firefight then briefly erupted between NATO forces and the troops, the statement said, and two Pakistani soldiers were wounded.

The clash took place at Admi Kot Post in the North Waziristan tribal region of Pakistan, an area that American officials have long regarded as a haven used by militants to attack coalition forces inside Afghanistan. NATO officials said they were looking into the incident, and could not immediately confirm whether the helicopters had indeed entered Pakistan’s airspace.

The exchange of fire between NATO and Pakistani forces appeared likely to worsen frictions between Pakistan and the United States. The Pakistani Army “lodged a strong protest and demanded a flag meeting,” the statement said, referring to a meeting between officials from Pakistan and NATO.

This isn’t the first time that the two sides have exchanged fire.  Eight months ago, a similar incident left two Pakistani soldiers dead.  NATO has operated in Waziristan with tacit unofficial permission while Pakistan’s government protests the incursions, but it’s still a violation of Pakistani airspace, and reactions like these will occur whether Islamabad turns a blind eye or not.

Still, coming so soon after the OBL raid, it does appear that the Gilani government — or at least the Army — wants to send a message to NATO about further cooperation in the war in Afghanistan.  Gilani himself flew to China to improve ties, which the Times reports is an unsubtle signal to the US that Pakistan has other options than the US.

All of this makes Kerry’s mission very, very difficult from the start.  According to McClatchy, it doesn’t appear to be going well:

The United States and Pakistan sought Monday to avert a rupture in relations over the U.S. raid that killed Osama bin Laden, but it was unclear how much progress they made beyond a vague accord to “work together” on future operations against “high value” militants hiding in Pakistan.

Pakistani civilian and military leaders also agreed in talks with Senate Foreign Relations Committee Chairman John Kerry, D-Mass., to return the wreckage of a top-secret, radar-evading U.S. helicopter that was damaged and intentionally destroyed during the May 2 assault by U.S. Navy SEALs on bin Laden’s hideout.

It was clear, however, that Kerry and his interlocutors made little headway on the core disputes that had plunged relations between the putative allies to their most acrimonious level in 10 years even before the raid that embarrassed and enraged Pakistan’s powerful military, which was only informed after it was over.

Kerry did his best to argue that the US didn’t withhold notification out of a lack of trust, but the “best” is still threadbare:

Kerry defended the administration’s decision not to inform Pakistan in advance of the raid, saying that few U.S. officials were taken into confidence, either.

“It was not a matter of trust, but imperative of operational security,” he said.

Well, yes, but the reason it was imperative of national security is because … we can’t trust the Pakistanis.  The point about US officials is true but irrelevant; we didn’t invade the US to conduct the mission.  We tried trusting the Pakistanis on an OBL mission during the Clinton presidency, and the Pakistanis tipped off OBL before we could get him.  Kerry’s doing his best to obliterate the obvious conclusion through diplo-speak, which is exactly what he’s supposed to do in this circumstance, but we shouldn’t be surprised to find that no one’s buying it, least of all the Pakistanis.

The eruption of a skirmish on the border will only complicate the issue for Kerry and the Obama administration.  The OBL mission was worth the price we’re paying with Pakistan now, but perhaps other border missions should be rethought for a while until we get the Pakistanis calmed down.  Unless we have hot data on a high-value target that we simply can’t pass up, the cost of further provocation may well be the war itself.


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Obama’s brothers succeed, apace.

Schadenfreude on May 1, 2013 at 6:41 PM

The Arab ‘spring’ blooms…icicles.

Schadenfreude on May 1, 2013 at 6:42 PM

Obama’s boos

tom daschle concerned on May 1, 2013 at 6:42 PM

Well, what a fun group these folks are! Can we please import some more?

Cindy Munford on May 1, 2013 at 6:42 PM

I meant bat face’s boos

tom daschle concerned on May 1, 2013 at 6:43 PM

Its ok though. Because they also believe in “religious freedom” and Shari’a law.

Go figure.

In the meantime, best judge by how they act and not what they say. Because the results of this survey are teh crazy.

novaculus on May 1, 2013 at 6:43 PM

Wow! Who would have thought that 64% of the Egyptian population was composed of radical Islamists!

NavyMustang on May 1, 2013 at 6:44 PM

As the song goes “Freedoms’ just another word, for nothing left to lose, but your life is you don’t believe like me.”

LincolntheHun on May 1, 2013 at 6:44 PM

So long, Muslim World, and thanks for all the fish!

Resist We Much on May 1, 2013 at 6:46 PM

Lone wolves.

Ronnie on May 1, 2013 at 6:46 PM

Moozies just need a reason to kill.
Let’s import more of them from around the world ,
and put them on welfare …

burrata on May 1, 2013 at 6:46 PM

I support the death penalty for Muslims who leave Islamic countries.

Charlemagne on May 1, 2013 at 6:47 PM

Pew: 64% of Muslims in Egypt and Pakistan support death penalty for leaving Islam

So? Apostasy is a death penalty offense in the political ideology of islam. That is what islam is all about. You can check in but you can never leave. Blood in/blood out.

Since we’re on the topic, placing any intercalary into the calendar to sync their primitive system with the solar year is also a death penalty offense. islam demands primitivity in its cannon-fodder adherents.

Now, go kiss the ground 5 times a day you islamic slugs to constantly remind yourselves how insignificant you are and how your only utility to islam and the world is as self-exploding weapons of the most backward, belligerent, aggressive, insane, violent political ideology to ever appear on the planet – and that’s saying something.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on May 1, 2013 at 6:48 PM

EgyptianGoons have spoken!!

canopfor on May 1, 2013 at 6:48 PM

Maybe the correct predictor isn’t religious pluralism but regional and political culture

You mean personal liberty and property rights, don’t you?

BobMbx on May 1, 2013 at 6:49 PM

Bad news for Steve Centani.

vityas on May 1, 2013 at 6:50 PM

Hey, let’s send them boatloads of money. Libya and Syria, too. What could possibly go wrong?

Philly on May 1, 2013 at 6:50 PM

Moozies just need a reason to kill.
Let’s import more of them from around the world ,
and put them on welfare …

Any reason will do, even if they have to make one up to satisfy their blood lust.

islam isn’t a religion it’s a perverse death cult.

hawkeye54 on May 1, 2013 at 6:50 PM

Islam, the Religion of Peace™ You’ll love it or we’ll give you your money back disembowel you in the public square and feed your entrails to the vultures!

cynccook on May 1, 2013 at 6:50 PM

Well, I’m just glad the Religion of Peace® is tolerant, otherwise someone might get hurt.

rbj on May 1, 2013 at 6:51 PM

And American liberals think 100% of those who disagree with them need to be banned from the airwaves, and/or otherwise gotten rid of.

Liam on May 1, 2013 at 6:53 PM

In other news: 64% of Liberals in America support prison sentence for not supporting the current government

beatcanvas on May 1, 2013 at 6:54 PM

I’d hate to be that 34% that choose “poorly”.

Flange on May 1, 2013 at 6:54 PM

So did Barry leave Islam???

albill on May 1, 2013 at 6:55 PM

In other news: 64% 100% of Liberals in America support prison sentence for not supporting the current government

beatcanvas on May 1, 2013 at 6:54 PM

Edited for accuracy.

Liam on May 1, 2013 at 6:56 PM

The other 32%,me thinks,they’ve already been be-headed!
(sarc)

canopfor on May 1, 2013 at 6:58 PM

My math, by the way, has a +/- of 2.

Flange on May 1, 2013 at 7:01 PM

Don’t misinterpret this. They totally believe in religious freedom. Everyone in Egypt is free to convert to Islam or not. Muslims are free to convert to another religion, too.

Of course, the wrong choice is punishable by death. But you’re free to choose death if you want to …..

There Goes the Neighborhood on May 1, 2013 at 7:06 PM

There Goes the Neighborhood on May 1, 2013 at 7:06 PM

Not much different from modern American liberalism.

Liam on May 1, 2013 at 7:09 PM

On balance, more are worried about Islamic extremists than about Christian extremists.

Soooo, not even Islamic extremists are worried about the so-called “Christian sharia” or “Christian Taliban.” Must be a fear exclusive to RINOs and progressives.

There Goes the Neighborhood on May 1, 2013 at 7:11 PM

The other 32%,me thinks,they’ve already been be-headed!
(sarc)

canopfor on May 1, 2013 at 6:58 PM

Math is hard.
So is English.

Indonesia’s 86 percent Muslim but execution for apostasy is supported by “only” 13 percent. The disparity in Turkey is even wider, with almost the entire population Islamic but apostasy executions favored by two percent.

That’s relatively good news.

itsnotaboutme on May 1, 2013 at 7:13 PM

Subhumans.

VorDaj on May 1, 2013 at 7:15 PM

Screw it! Let`s just seize the oil fields, carpet bomb Af/Pak, Iran and call it a day.

ThePrez on May 1, 2013 at 7:15 PM

the religion of peace…

burserker on May 1, 2013 at 7:16 PM

Time for our leaders to tell them about the “big tent” theory of multicultural and spiritual diversity?

IlikedAUH2O on May 1, 2013 at 7:17 PM

Obama left islam. Pass it on.

Ronnie on May 1, 2013 at 7:19 PM

Screw it! Let`s just seize the oil fields, carpet bomb Af/Pak, Iran and call it a day.

ThePrez on May 1, 2013 at 7:15 PM

You know, it’s funny. If America wanted to be truly imperialistic, we could have made it happen between 1946 and 1954. And no one could have stopped us.

But we didn’t go that route.

Liam on May 1, 2013 at 7:19 PM

Wow! Who would have thought that 64% of the Egyptian population was composed of radical Islamists!

NavyMustang on May 1, 2013 at 6:44 PM

With all things Islamic, 99.9999% of Muslims are making the rest look bad.

VorDaj on May 1, 2013 at 7:19 PM

So did Barry leave Islam???

albill on May 1, 2013 at 6:55 PM

Not so as you’d notice.

“The future must not belong to those who slander the Prophet of Islam!”

VorDaj on May 1, 2013 at 7:24 PM

Liberals are the ones who destroyed all of JFK’s visions.

Liam on May 1, 2013 at 7:25 PM

Islam, the religion cult gang of death.

What’s not to like?

/’The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam’.

- Obama, Sep 25, 2012, Addressing the U.N. General Assembly

Paul-Cincy on May 1, 2013 at 7:26 PM

I think a better subtitle would have been, “Why a simple democracy should be feared.”

shick on May 1, 2013 at 7:28 PM

64% of Muslims in Egypt and Pakistan support death penalty for leaving Islam

and

…say they are concerned about religious extremist groups in their country, including two-thirds or more of Muslims in Egypt (67%)…

Thought it was the same question, I suppose.

socalcon on May 1, 2013 at 7:28 PM

Screw it! Let`s just seize the oil fields, carpet bomb Af/Pak, Iran and call it a day.

ThePrez on May 1, 2013 at 7:15 PM

You know, it’s funny. If America wanted to be truly imperialistic, we could have made it happen between 1946 and 1954. And no one could have stopped us.

But we didn’t go that route.

Liam on May 1, 2013 at 7:19 PM

Imperialism just doesn’t work for us. Instead of colonies, we have territories, and we keep offering them the chance to become full states. Most of them figure life is better as a territory, and turn us down.

There Goes the Neighborhood on May 1, 2013 at 7:30 PM

Correction: “Another example of how a simple democracy is a bad thing.”

shick on May 1, 2013 at 7:32 PM

Bad news for Steve Centani.

vityas on May 1, 2013 at 6:50 PM

Yep. He can never go back.

slickwillie2001 on May 1, 2013 at 7:33 PM

Imperialism just doesn’t work for us. Instead of colonies, we have territories, and we keep offering them the chance to become full states. Most of them figure life is better as a territory, and turn us down.

There Goes the Neighborhood on May 1, 2013 at 7:30 PM

I’m looking at it from the liberal lie that America is an imperialist nation.

We’re not.

Liam on May 1, 2013 at 7:35 PM

There Goes the Neighborhood on May 1, 2013 at 7:30 PM

If we’re an ‘empire’, we are the most generous and benign in human history.

We have literally fed the world.

But that is never good enough for liberals.

Liam on May 1, 2013 at 7:37 PM

Legitimate religions do not have laws against apostasy.

Basilsbest on May 1, 2013 at 7:42 PM

How do they feel about homosexuality…?

/

Seven Percent Solution on May 1, 2013 at 7:47 PM

Imperialism just doesn’t work for us. Instead of colonies, we have territories, and we keep offering them the chance to become full states. Most of them figure life is better as a territory, and turn us down.

There Goes the Neighborhood on May 1, 2013 at 7:30 PM

I’m looking at it from the liberal lie that America is an imperialist nation.

We’re not.

Liam on May 1, 2013 at 7:35 PM

Oh, I agree. “Colonies” implies that we keep these possessions in subjugation. Instead, we offer them full citizenship and rights. They can become states if they want to.

It’s always amazed me that a college professor can rant about the U.S. being imperialistic, and no one ever points out the obvious: that that rhetoric only applies to nations that keep colonies. Basically, Europe.

There Goes the Neighborhood on May 1, 2013 at 7:48 PM

How do they feel about homosexuality…?

/

Seven Percent Solution on May 1, 2013 at 7:47 PM

That doesn’t matter to liberals.

It’s about Republicans only.

Liam on May 1, 2013 at 7:53 PM

It’s always amazed me that a college professor can rant about the U.S. being imperialistic, and no one ever points out the obvious: that that rhetoric only applies to nations that keep colonies. Basically, Europe.

There Goes the Neighborhood on May 1, 2013 at 7:48 PM

It’s impossible to keep being liberal without lying to oneself.

That’s why liberals have to lie all the time.

Liam on May 1, 2013 at 7:55 PM

Which ones are the moderates?

farsighted on May 1, 2013 at 8:06 PM

From the WaPo Piece:

Like the U.S. public knowledge polls that find that one-third of Americans can’t name the vice president, Pew’s report includes some less-than-flattering pieces of data. And while it’s important not to generalize about entire populations or demographic groups based on one study, some of these numbers are difficult to ignore.

Difficult to ignore? You mean despite WaPo’s best efforts? “Less than flattering?” You can’t make this stuff up. How do these Wapo slime sleep at night.

Notice also how WaPo tries again at moral equivalence. You see, believing in the Islamic death penalty for apostasy is EXACTLY THE SAME as not knowing who the VP is.

Unbe-frickin-lievable. The whole write-up is filled with this kind of soft-balling. Over KILLING people.

WaPo attributes the write-up to “Max Fisher and the Washington Post Foreign Staff,” whatever that means. What a disgrace. On his facebook page (https://www.facebook.com/max.fisher.3760) he has listed as one of his favorite athletes Sarah Attar, that stupid Saudi broad who competed in the Olympics in full Muzzie garb, which was obviously a propaganda move by the Saudis. You can tell where this loser is coming from.

WhatSlushfund on May 1, 2013 at 8:08 PM

Poll: 70% of Muslims support same sex marriage. 80% support stoning to death homosexuals.

NotCoach on May 1, 2013 at 8:16 PM

Isn’t the president a Muslim apostate? He eschewed the religion of his father and his birth for Christianity (allegedly).

Philly on May 1, 2013 at 8:18 PM

Poll: 70% of Muslims support same sex marriage. 80% support stoning to death homosexuals.

NotCoach on May 1, 2013 at 8:16 PM

Well, you need to identify them somehow, if you wanna stone them, right?

Valkyriepundit on May 1, 2013 at 8:27 PM

Phew!

I left the Catholic Church many years ago… Was probably mostly just too lazy to get up on Sundays and said I left because that nasty church wouldn’t let women be priests.

Then I realized that was just a lame-o excuse and went back.

Good thing they didn’t decide I needed killing cause I am really a pretty decent Catholic.

If a religion needs to impose a DEATH PENALTY for leaving…what more can be said????

marybel on May 1, 2013 at 8:31 PM

Sixty-seven percent of Egyptians are worried about “religious extremist groups” in their country, and meanwhile almost exactly the same number support killing people for leaving Islam. I guess “extremist” is in the eye of the beholder.

Exactly!

The problem with asking, “Do you believe in religious extremism” is it means different things to different people. In fact what would constitute normal everyday life here in America, like a woman walking around a beach in her bikini would be consider “extreme” in the Islamic world. The reverse is true too…like attacking and lynching gays in the Islamic world is normal, but would be considered extreme here in America.

It is funny how almost everything the progressives are pushing for like gay marriage, abortion, etc. the Islamic world hates, in a violent way, yet the first people to defend that world are progressives in order to be culturally sensitive.

Just like everything else they do….it is suicidally stupid.

William Eaton on May 1, 2013 at 9:12 PM

Shitholes that feature a religion that gets to blow us up over here.

Bad religion.

Immigration control please.

Sherman1864 on May 1, 2013 at 9:15 PM

Reminds me of this:

I’d like to tell you a very nice story. Once there was a Muslim who lived next to a Jew. The Muslim saw in the Jew a measure of goodheartedness – however small – and he wanted to find any way to make him convert to Islam. So he went to him and asked: “Don’t you feel the need for Islam? Why don’t you become a Muslim?” The Jew said: “The only thing preventing me from becoming a Muslim is that I love drinking alcohol. I would have become a Muslim ages ago, but the only thing stopping me is that I am an alcoholic.”

The Muslim devised a plan. He said: “No problem – become a Muslim, and continue to drink.” The Muslim didn’t meant this, of course, but he said to him: “Become a Muslim, and continue to drink.” The Jews said: “Fine.” He said: “I proclaim that there is no god but Allah, and Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah.” The Muslim said to him: “Now you have become a Muslim. If you drink alcohol, we will carry out the punishment for drinking alcohol on you, and if you renounce Islam, we will kill you.” So the man remained a Muslim and never drank alcohol again. This was a nice trick by this good Muslim.

Mahmoud al-Masri, August 2009

rightmind on May 1, 2013 at 9:19 PM

Yeah, most Muslims don’t really go for the “I’ll pray for you” response.

Tzetzes on May 1, 2013 at 11:46 PM

Let’s assume that Obama, GWB, Clinton, GHWB, etc. ad-nausium are correct when they say that Islam is a religion of peace. Let’s take our leaders at their word.

Logically, then the violent jihadis can’t be Muslim! Therefore we stop treating the Gitmo prisoners and other terrorists as Muslims. Violent “muslim” criminals in US jails as well. They are infidels. Don’t give them copies of the Koran – they don’t need it since they are apostates. Don’t treat them with any sign of religious respect which otherwise would be due to peaceful Muslims. Feed them pork. If anything, shame them for their religious wickedness instead at every opportunity.

And let’s also create a modern support system in the US to protect all those who are truly peaceful Muslims as well as MINA (Muslims in name only) who adhere to Islam primarily to avoid violence threatened against them by these apostates.

For surely no peaceful religion would compel its adherents to comply under threats of violence in this world. Fear is not faith.

Rich H on May 1, 2013 at 11:59 PM

Good thing oblamo doesn’t have any trips planned to Egypt or Pakistan.

Of course, the penalty for just pretending not to be a muslim is probably not as harsh as actually leaving it. Probably something like having to spend a weekend with mcgilla.

acyl72 on May 2, 2013 at 7:37 AM

…Control of Egypt
…A terrorist group ‘credibility’
…The ability to make oppressive Shari’a Law Egypt’s Law
…The ability to persecute/kill Christians in Egypt
…$1.5 Billion
…24 new F-16 Fighter Jets
…200 brand new Tanks

…that is just some of what Obama has given the Muslim Brotherhood since he has been President….at tax-payer expence.

Just a suggestion, but perhaps – as a ‘Democracy’ that promotes ‘Democracy’ – one of our criteria for giving ANY nation ANY foreign aid, money, military weapons, ANYTHING should be ‘freedom’ for its people, protection for everyone (Christians, Jews, Islam, etc…)…and if they can’t/won’t/don’t give them ANYTHING. If they are getting aid from us & they begin oppressing their people the help/aid/cash/etc IMMEDIATELY STOPS! Call it a ‘carrot’ if you want, but a nation that advocates freedom should not continue to reward oppression, intolerance, hatred, terrorism, etc!

easyt65 on May 2, 2013 at 10:36 AM

Sooooooo….can we now officially admit that the term “Muslim Terrorist” is redundant???

And here’s an idea: How about denying visas, residency status, benefits, and citizenship to anyone who will not pledge himself to the principles contained in our Declaration of Independence?

landlines on May 2, 2013 at 4:37 PM