Dershowitz: We need to see the Bin Laden photos to be sure of how he died; Update: New report claims Bin Laden was “scared, confused”

posted at 4:06 pm on May 5, 2011 by Allahpundit

I left this reason out of yesterday’s post addressing arguments for why the photos should be released because I didn’t think we’d reach the point where forensics might be needed to confirm the White House’s account of what happened.

But after yet another narrative sprang forth last night in the Times and Panetta copped to a curious 25-minute blackout in the video stream during the raid, maybe we’ve reached that point after all.

The new details suggested that the raid, though chaotic and bloody, was extremely one-sided, with a force of more than 20 Navy Seal members quickly dispatching the handful of men protecting Bin Laden.

Administration officials said that the only shots fired by those in the compound came at the beginning of the operation, when Bin Laden’s trusted courier, Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti, opened fire from behind the door of the guesthouse adjacent to the house where Bin Laden was hiding…

Administration officials said the official account of events has changed over the course of the week because it has taken time to get thorough after-action reports from the Seal team. And, they added, because the Special Operations troops had been fired upon as soon as they touched down in the compound, they were under the assumption that everyone inside was armed…

When the commandos reached the top floor, they entered a room and saw Osama bin Laden with an AK-47 and a Makarov pistol in arm’s reach. They shot and killed him, as well as wounding a woman with him.

Clear enough now? Hold on — William Saletan of Slate compared it to details of the raid provided to NBC News and found it confusing.

The new accounts specify weapons near Bin Laden. ABC News says “at least one AK-47 was found in bin Laden’s room.” The Times says the SEALs killed him after they entered the room and saw him “with an AK-47 and a Makarov pistol in arm’s reach.” But recall the NBC News report: After shooting Bin Laden’s onrushing wife in the calf, “without hesitation, the same commando turned his gun on bin Laden, standing in what appeared to be pajamas, and fire two quick shots, one to the chest and one to the head.” It’s hard to imagine how this commando, who must have been focusing entirely on the charging woman until he pivoted to Bin Laden, had time to notice anything about weapons lying around before he put the two fatal bullets in the guy in the pajamas. Commandos are trained to focus on people and whether they’re armed, not on unaccompanied objects. I doubt the inventory of weapons in the room was taken until later.

Help me figure this out. Presumably, even the SEALs’ stealth helicopter made enough noise to wake Bin Laden up when it landed right in his backyard. Even if it didn’t, the resulting gunfire must have woken him: It could be that the SEALs had silencers on their weapons, but the courier who fired at them from the guest house probably didn’t. (Why would he need one?) Once he was dead, the SEALs broke into the main house and started clearing rooms; there must have been a hellacious racket, replete with women screaming, troops yelling commands, doors being kicked open, furniture being tossed around, boots in the hallways, etc etc. All of which is to say that Bin Laden must have been awake right after the raid began; and even if they reached his room within five minutes (according to the Post, it was more like 30 minutes), that was plenty of time for him to grab the AK-47 or set a bomb. And yet … he didn’t. Is there any way to explain the fact that he was willingly unarmed besides either (a) he was utterly terrified and trying to surrender or (b) he was too ill to use a weapon? The latter seems unlikely since apparently he was well enough to stand, but I don’t know how to rule out the former aside from half-assed “well, that doesn’t sound like a jihadi, does it?” speculation. In fact, KSM surrendered, as have a bunch of other Al Qaeda honchos. So did Saddam, who, while not a jihadi, was a megalomaniac with a body count bigger than Bin Laden’s. If they could put martial pride aside and give up, why couldn’t Osama?

Problem is, even if he did want to surrender, unless he made that unambiguously clear, the SEALs would be forced to err on the side of caution and interpret any movement as an attempt to activate a booby trap. Presumably the only way we’ll know if it happened that way or if they grabbed him and executed him is if … we see the photos, which is precisely Dershowitz’s point. No doubt a trained eye can tell a lot from the wound about whether he was shot from across a room or popped in the temple at close range. There’ll be no sympathy for Bin Laden either way, but if he was executed people will want to know (a) whether that’s routine practice or special treatment for the man behind 9/11, (b) why the White House tried to cover it up, and (c) why O would deny the CIA an opportunity to interrogate Al Qaeda’s supreme leader given the information he might have. (For more on that last point, read Michael Barone.) No wonder the White House has suddenly decided to go silent.

Update: And so we come almost full circle to the original WH account. According to Fox News, Bin Laden didn’t use his wife as a human shield, he just sort of … shoved her in front of him:

Sources involved in the operation that took down Usama bin Laden told Fox News the terrorist leader acted “scared” and “completely confused” in his final moments, “shoving his wife” at the Navy SEAL who ultimately shot him.

The information helps clarify the conflicting details about what exactly happened toward the end of the 40-minute raid on bin Laden’s northern Pakistan compound. Sources who were part of the mission said bin Laden acted in a “cowardly manner” when confronted. Fox News has also learned that while bin Laden was unarmed, he was standing near the door within reach of two weapons — an AK-47 and a Makarov handgun that are now in U.S. custody. The handgun is a 9mm semi-automatic Russian pistol, standard issue in the Russian military until 1991…

“When the SEALs reached the third floor, after resistance and physical barricades, Usama bin Laden did not immediately surrender. When someone like UBL who has said he wants to kill as many Americans as possible, doesn’t 150 percent surrender, you have to assess as a threat.”

If he was willing to shove his wife at the SEALs to try to stop them but not to grab the machine gun nearby, maybe he really was so terrified that he wasn’t thinking clearly. In that case, with his actions ambiguous, they erred on the side of caution.

Blowback

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I am enjoying the thought of Osama, knowing the Seals were coming for him, had the time to sh*t his PJs and go into hysterics. Picture him sort of running in place with his arms out and hands flapping with tears rolling down his cheeks as he screamed like a little girl. Oh,yeah……..

Mallard T. Drake on May 5, 2011 at 6:28 PM

I’m glad someone else brought up the fact that maybe he was going to surrender! I’ve been saying this for days to my husband. If there truly was a 30 minute ordeal before they reached him….he would have had a gun ready. I’m not a conspiracy theorist kind of person….but something doesn’t sit well with all this!

maables on May 5, 2011 at 6:28 PM

the 40 minutes didn’t make sense at first. A prolonged firefight, with ubl being killed toward the end. They had to go thru the entire compound to gather computers, etc.

I know there were a fair number our guys in the compound…but it makes much more sense that the “firefight” was the one ubl guy protecting the entrance, then once he was dead, it doesn’t take long to secure the rest of the place, if no one is armed.

r keller on May 5, 2011 at 6:36 PM

Though I didn’t vote for Obama and I don’t like most of what he has done as President, we elected him President to make certain decisions. Whatever he decided should be the fate of OBL including heinously torturing OBL for twenty minutes before executing him is OK by me. And I don’t need to know the details. Let’s just support Obama on this–support him enough to give a blank check on the details–and be happy he did mostly the right thing for once!

Micromanagement of others is a heinous character flaw.

thuja on May 5, 2011 at 7:01 PM

thuja,

Nah, I don’t think so.

Woofguy on May 5, 2011 at 7:05 PM

Breaking~ Obama admits Osama had already committed suicide when SEALS found him, having been sorely disappointed with the conclusion of THE APPRENTICE and ended it all in disgust.

(That’s what the satellite dish was for.)

profitsbeard on May 5, 2011 at 7:09 PM

A reporter from a paper that gladly published any classified information they could get their hands on debating on a network that aired a video of a sniper’s view of a US soldier getting shot???

Seriously???? WTF???

BigWyo on May 5, 2011 at 7:09 PM

Let’s just support Obama on this–support him enough to give a blank check on the details–and be happy he did mostly the right thing for once!

thuja on May 5, 2011 at 7:01 PM

No.

If he did in fact do the right thing – because it could have been Panetta who actually ordered them to go – it does not give him, or anyone, the right to lie to us.

Not only lie, but lie badly. Ridiculous.

Rebar on May 5, 2011 at 7:12 PM

@lilindian sez “Osama got his 72 virgins – Obama got his 72 versions”

DANEgerus on May 5, 2011 at 7:13 PM

And I don’t need to know the details. Let’s just support Obama on this

thuja on May 5, 2011 at 7:01 PM

There’s a disconnect. You don’t need to know the details. That’s cool! Then you say, let’s just support him on this … that doesn’t follow at all. It’s a leap.

Give me some facts. THEN I might support him.

Why, out of the blue, did he say, we won’t show the death photo? That’s a small part of the big picture. He wants to set the narrative on an event that’s ALREADY occurred! No, I don’t support that. I want a narrative based on the facts. Not one Obama has made up.

Paul-Cincy on May 5, 2011 at 7:13 PM

Yet the witnesses the Obama administration has deferred evidentiary confirmation too as opposed to the photograph regarding UBL’s death was UBL’s Wife and Child who reported that UBL was sleeping, captured and shot then dragged to the choppers all from the bottom floor and he was hit within the first minutes of the prosecution.

Also, as to the petrified war room picture, it seems this was only an audio of the event. Give me a break. Why could they not say, “Yes, we were viewing this mission from the video cam on the SEAL’s team leader helmet real-time”? Now that’s an explanation I would accept, would expect and appreciate. You make the call.

Tangerinesong on May 5, 2011 at 7:15 PM

Perhaps OBL had been imbibing in some of the Afghan poppy paste. That could explain his confused and scared state: he woke up too buzzed to understand anything that was happening.

Yoop on May 5, 2011 at 7:15 PM

If this were China, the President would set a narrative, and we’d have nothing else to go on. But this isn’t China. This is America.

Paul-Cincy on May 5, 2011 at 7:15 PM

Tomorrow we’ll hear that Bin Laden wasn’t scared…the next day we’ll hear something else.

zoyclem on May 5, 2011 at 7:17 PM

Scared and confused.

SWEET!

Lonetown on May 5, 2011 at 7:20 PM

I met Gary Berntsen (author of Jawbreaker) in Afghanistan, and he told me Bin-Laden was a coward. Apparently, Mr. Berntsen was on the ground during a missile strike that came close to killing both Bin-Laden and Al-Zawahiri.

According to Mr. Berntsen, Bin-Laden cried like a little girl over the SATPHONE while Al-Zawahiri (whom Mr. Berntsen considers the real leader of Al-Qaeda) berated him for being a p… uh… pansy. Yeah, that’s the word.

Anyway, given Mr. Berntsen’s take on him, I’m not surprised that Bin-Laden was bewildered, distraught and shoved a woman in front of the SEALs to protect himself.

OscarSchneegans on May 5, 2011 at 7:24 PM

Help me figure this out

It is really very simple. The mission was a classic “terminate with extreme prejudice.” The only remaining question is who gave the kill order.

BigAlSouth on May 5, 2011 at 7:27 PM

Kraut has it right:

KRAUTHAMMER: “The only way the president ordered the raid the way he did — a risky operation, he could have ordered a predator and destroyed that compound and reduced bin Laden to a cinder — the reason he ordered a raid, a risky operation, is to produce the proof of death. We did not enter all of this to just produce a trophy and I’m not sure why the president has this sort of almost compulsive need to morally preen that he’s not spiking the football when I haven’t heard anybody that wants to do it for that reason.”

Obama did it this way so we could see for sure. And he’s not letting us see! Insane!

Paul-Cincy on May 5, 2011 at 7:32 PM

–support him enough to give a blank check on the details–and be happy he did mostly the right thing for once!

thuja on May 5, 2011 at 7:01 PM

Can’t do it. Too long a string of bold faced lies.

obleo on May 5, 2011 at 7:43 PM

Obama did it this way so we could see for sure. And he’s not letting us see! Insane!

Paul-Cincy on May 5, 2011 at 7:32 PM

The mission was not conducted so the public could ‘see’ the result. It was to make sure that OBL was positively identified and neutralized.

No pleasing some people…

lexhamfox on May 5, 2011 at 7:50 PM

I know the KGB did, its in the history books but I was told the Nazi SS, Russian KGB and Israeli secret service have described the “guaranteed kill” as:

If pistol; 2 shots to the chest, 1 to the head.

If rifle; 1 shot to the chest, 1 to the head.

obleo on May 5, 2011 at 7:52 PM

The president ordered a kill job. Capture was not an option. The president did not want to have to decide whether to harshly interrogate or put in Gitmo or rather criminally prosecute bin Laden. Ordering an execution was simpler than being perceived by your liberal friends as not living up to your principles. Killing an unarmed man offering surrender was preferable to the political backlash O would certainly suffer by mishandling OBL after capture, and is there any question that he would have mishandled OBL if captured?

tommylotto on May 5, 2011 at 7:52 PM

It is really very simple. The mission was a classic “terminate with extreme prejudice.” The only remaining question is who gave the kill order.

BigAlSouth on May 5, 2011 at 7:27 PM

Who cares who gave the kill order? If it wasn’t Obama, we are stuck spending millions of dollars protecting his or her life. Dumbass nosiness is expensive and destructive. I fear that dwelling on the details only hurts our national interest.

I’m tired of all these conspiracy theories like Birtherism, and now Deatherism. Obviously, they are plots by the DNC to get Obama re-elected.

thuja on May 5, 2011 at 7:59 PM

Obama did it this way so we could see for sure. And he’s not letting us see! Insane!

Paul-Cincy on May 5, 2011 at 7:32 PM

You’re wrong, he did it this way so he could see for sure.

ProfessorMiao on May 5, 2011 at 8:11 PM

Picture him sort of running in place with his arms out and hands flapping with tears rolling down his cheeks as he screamed like a little girl. Oh,yeah……..

Mallard T. Drake on May 5, 2011 at 6:28 PM

And making that Curly “woo woo woo woo” sound.

justltl on May 5, 2011 at 8:12 PM

Froggy at Blackfive says there’s no such thing as “kill only” mission.

Let me assure you right now that there is no such thing as a “Kill only “ mission. If that SEAL operator came through the door to find UBL with his hands up, compliant, and unarmed (including no evidence of a suicide vest) he would have taken a muzzle strike to the face, but not any rounds. He would have swallowed some teeth, been flex cuffed, and dragged roughly out to a marshalling area and then onto the helo. To start out with the story that UBL had used his wife as a shield while shooting at the assaulters and to devolve that into to a woman was wounded and UBL was unarmed and shot in the face is quite a large spectrum of “truth”. Add to that the false notion of the “Kill only” mission, and now you have the entire SEAL community being thrown under the bus as wonton killers of women and unarmed civilians.

flyfisher on May 5, 2011 at 8:17 PM

thuja,

Only a fool would accept a story that keeps changing, and only a bigger fool would demand that others accept it at face value. You’re not worried about our national interest; you’re simply attempting (poorly) to change the narrative. It isn’t working.

zoyclem on May 5, 2011 at 8:21 PM

First of all, the XH-60 Greyhawk is not silent. It is noticeably quieter than all the rest of the Blackhawk series though. It has a smaller sonic signature so that it can’t be heard until it is nearly upon you and the majority of the blade and engine noise is highly directional, meaning it can’t be heard from all directions like a Blackhawk can, and you have to be closer to recognize the sound as a helo. It uses faceted surfaces to keep from reflecting radar energy back towards the source and exposed surfaces are a combination of RAM and dielectric composites and RA paint. The cockpit windscreen and glass has a coating of vapor-deposit gold to minimize RF leakage and to prevent radar penetration. The aircrew flight helmets have the same treatments as the airframe in regards to shaping and materials to prevent unwanted returns. The aircraft has a significantly lower radar and IR signature and is very difficult for existing search radars to pick up at long range and for radar and IR missiles to track.

All of the entry teams weapons used suppressors, that way if any team member hears a shot, they know the enemy is armed and firing. Even if bin Laden didn’t hear both helicopter’s approach and flare (He did), and even if he didn’t hear the helicopter’s hard landing in his courtyard (He did), then he would have been awakened by the entry team’s use of a wall charge in the courtyard, and the ensuing exchange of gunfire with al Kuwati’s brother in the guest house. This all took place before the entry into the main house. If you look at the interior pictures of the main house and bin Laden’s top floor bedroom where he was killed, you’ll notice an entry charge was used on the outside wall of the bedroom as well. OBL got a single 9mm to the top of the left eye socket and a single 5.56mm to the chest by 2 shooters. Time from detonation of the first wall breaching charge to all EKIA: 4 minutes.

Fender54 on May 5, 2011 at 8:23 PM

This is a very interesting read on the whole deal.
You may have seen this already.
White House Insider: Obama Hesitated – Panetta Issued Order to Kill Osama Bin Laden
by Ulsterman in Issues, May 3, 2011
“What Valerie Jarrett, and the president, did not know is that Leon Panetta had already initiated a program that reported to him –and only him, involving a covert on the ground attack against the compound.”

Note:This update comes some 24 hours after our longtime Washington D.C. Insider first outlined shocking details of an Obama administration having been “overruled” by senior military and intelligence officials leading up to the successful attack against terrorist Osama Bin Laden. What follows is further clarification of Insider’s insights surrounding that event.
_______
Q: You stated that President Obama was “overruled” by military/intelligence officials regarding the decision to send in military specialists into the Osama Bin Laden compound. Was that accurate?
A: I was told – in these exact terms, “we overruled him.” (Obama) I have since followed up and received further details on exactly what that meant, as well as the specifics of how Leon Panetta worked around the president’s “persistent hesitation to act.” There appears NOT to have been an outright overruling of any specific position by President Obama, simply because there was no specific position from the president to do so. President Obama was, in this case, as in all others, working as an absentee president.

Read more in Issues

« Good Riddance to Osama Bin Laden

President Obama Shouldn’t be Trusted: Osama Bin Laden Might Resurrect »
I was correct in stating there had been a push to invade the compound for several weeks if not months, primarily led by Leon Panetta, Hillary Clinton, Robert Gates, David Petraeus, and Jim Clapper. The primary opposition to this plan originated from Valerie Jarrett, and it was her opposition that was enough to create uncertainty within President Obama. Obama would meet with various components of the pro-invasion faction, almost always with Jarrett present, and then often fail to indicate his position. This situation continued for some time, though the division between Jarrett/Obama and the rest intensified more recently, most notably from Hillary Clinton. She was livid over the president’s failure to act, and her office began a campaign of anonymous leaks to the media indicating such. As for Jarrett, her concern rested on two primary fronts. One, that the military action could fail and harm the president’s already weakened standing with both the American public and the world. Second, that the attack would be viewed as an act of aggression against Muslims, and further destabilize conditions in the Middle East.
Q: What changed the president’s position and enabled the attack against Osama Bin Laden to proceed?
A: Nothing changed with the president’s opinion – he continued to avoid having one. Every time military and intelligence officials appeared to make progress in forming a position, Jarrett would intervene and the stalling would begin again. Hillary started the ball really rolling as far as pressuring Obama began, but it was Panetta and Petraeus who ultimately pushed Obama to finally act – sort of. Panetta was receiving significant reports from both his direct CIA sources, as well as Petraeus-originating Intel. Petraeus was threatening to act on his own via a bombing attack. Panetta reported back to the president that a bombing of the compound would result in successful killing of Osama Bin Laden, and little risk to American lives. Initially, as he had done before, the president indicated a willingness to act. But once again, Jarrett intervened, convincing the president that innocent Pakistani lives could be lost in such a bombing attack, and Obama would be left attempting to explain Panetta’s failed policy. Again Obama hesitated – this time openly delaying further meetings to discuss the issue with Panetta. A brief meeting was held at this time with other officials, including Secretary Gates and members of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, but Gates, like Panetta, was unable to push the president to act. It was at this time that Gates indicated to certain Pentagon officials that he may resign earlier than originally indicated – he was that frustrated. Both Panetta and Clinton convinced him to stay on and see the operation through.
What happened from there is what was described by me as a “masterful manipulation” by Leon Panetta. Panetta indicated to Obama that leaks regarding knowledge of Osama Bin Laden’s location were certain to get out sooner rather than later, and action must be taken by the administration or the public backlash to the president’s inaction would be “…significant to the point of political debilitation.” It was at that time that Obama stated an on-ground campaign would be far more acceptable to him than a bombing raid. This was intended as a stalling tactic, and it had originated from Jarrett. Such a campaign would take both time, and present a far greater risk of failure. The president had been instructed by Jarrett to inform Mr., Panetta that he would have sole discretion to act against the Osama Bin Laden compound. Jarrett believed this would further delay Panetta from acting, as the responsibility for failure would then fall almost entirely on him. What Valerie Jarrett, and the president, did not know is that Leon Panetta had already initiated a program that reported to him –and only him, involving a covert on the ground attack against the compound. Basically, the whole damn operation was already ready to go – including the specific team support Intel necessary to engage the enemy within hours of being given notice. Panetta then made plans to proceed with an on-ground assault. This information reached either Hillary Clinton or Robert Gates first (likely via military contacts directly associated with the impending mission) who then informed the other. Those two then met with Panetta, who informed each of them he had been given the authority by the president to proceed with a mission if the opportunity presented itself. Both Gates and Clinton warned Panetta of the implications of that authority – namely he was possibly being made into a scapegoat. Panetta admitted that possibility, but felt the opportunity to get Bin Laden outweighed that risk. During that meeting, Hillary Clinton was first to pledge her full support for Panetta, indicating she would defend him if necessary. Similar support was then followed by Gates. The following day, and with Panetta’s permission, Clinton met in private with Bill Daley and urged him to get the president’s full and open approval of the Panetta plan. Daley agreed such approval would be of great benefit to the action, and instructed Clinton to delay proceeding until he had secured that approval. Daley contacted Clinton within hours of their meeting indicating Jarrett refused to allow the president to give that approval. Daley then informed Clinton that he too would fully support Panetta in his actions, even if it meant disclosing the president’s indecision to the American public should that action fail to produce a successful conclusion. Clinton took that message back to Panetta and the CIA director initiated the 48 hour engagement order. At this point, the President of the United States was not informed of the engagement order – it did not originate from him, and for several hours after the order had been given and the special ops forces were preparing for action into Pakistan from their position in Afghanistan, Daley successfully kept Obama and Jarrett insulated from that order.

Read more: http://socyberty.com/issues/white-house-insider-obama-hesitated-panetta-issued-order-to-kill-osama-bin-laden/#ixzz1LTjbR4ZO

This insulation ended at some point with an abort order that I believe originated from Valerie Jarrett’s office, and was then followed up by President Obama. This abort order was later explained as a delay due to weather conditions, but the actual conditions at that time would have been acceptable for the mission. A storm system had been in the area earlier, but was no longer an issue. Check the data yourself to confirm. Jarrett, having been caught off guard, was now scrambling to determine who had initiated the plan. She was furious, repeating the acronym “CoC” and saying it was not being followed. This is where Bill Daley intervened directly. The particulars of that intervention are not clear to me beyond knowing he did meet with Jarrett in his office and following that meeting, Valerie Jarrett was not seen in the West Wing for some time, and apparently no longer offered up any resistance to the Osama Bin Laden mission. What did follow from there was one or more brief meetings between Bill Daley, Hillary Clinton, a representative from Robert Gates’ office, a representative from Leon Panetta’s office, and a representative from Jim Clapper’s office. I have to assume that these meetings were in essence, detailing the move to proceed with the operation against the Osama Bin Laden compound. I have been told by more than one source that Leon Panetta was directing the operation with both his own CIA operatives, as well as direct contacts with military – both entities were reporting to Panetta only at this point, and not the President of the United States. There was not going to be another delay as had happened 24 hour earlier. The operation was at this time effectively unknown to President Barack Obama or Valerie Jarrett and it remained that way until AFTER it had already been initiated. President Obama was literally pulled from a golf outing and escorted back to the White House to be informed of the mission. Upon his arrival there was a briefing held which included Bill Daley, John Brennan, and a high ranking member of the military. When Obama emerged from the briefing, he was described as looking “very confused and uncertain.” The president was then placed in the situation room where several of the players in this event had already been watching the operation unfold. Another interesting tidbit regarding this is that the Vice President was already “up to speed” on the operation. A source indicated they believe Hillary Clinton had personally made certain the Vice President was made aware of that day’s events before the president was. The now famous photo released shows the particulars of that of that room and its occupants. What that photo does not communicate directly is that the military personnel present in that room during the operation unfolding, deferred to either Hillary Clinton or Robert Gates. The president’s role was minimal, including their acknowledging of his presence in the room.
At the conclusion of the mission, after it had been repeatedly confirmed a success, President Obama was once again briefed behind closed doors. The only ones who went in that room besides the president were Bill Daley. John Brennan, and a third individual whose identity remains unknown to me. When leaving this briefing, the president came out of it “…much more confident. Much more certain of himself.” He was also carrying papers in his hand that quite possibly was the address to the nation given later that evening on the Bin Laden mission. The president did not have those papers with him prior to that briefing. The president then returned to the war room, where by this time, Leon Panetta had personally arrived and was receiving congratulations from all who were present.
In my initial communication to you of these events I described what unfolded as a temporary Coup initiated by high ranking intelligence and military officials. I stand by that term. These figures worked around the uncertainty of President Obama and the repeated resistance of Valerie Jarrett. If they had not been willing to do so, I am certain Osama Bin Laden would still be alive today. There will be no punishment to those who acted outside the authority of the president’s office. The president cannot afford to admit such a fact. What will be most interesting from here is to now see what becomes of Valerie Jarrett. One source indicated she is threatening resignation. I find that unlikely given my strong belief she needs the protection afforded her by the Oval Office and its immense powers to delay and eventually terminate investigations back in Chicago, but we shall see.

Col.John Wm. Reed on May 5, 2011 at 8:25 PM

Who cares who gave the kill order?

thuja on May 5, 2011 at 7:59 PM

If he didn’t give the order then that means someone on his staff did and then dragged him kicking and screaming to the command center. If so then his staff participated in a temporary coup to get the job done. That is not good news.

chemman on May 5, 2011 at 8:28 PM

We send the SEAL Team on a lovely vacation to Binny’s compound and they don’t even have time for happy snaps so we can at least get an idea of the sort of party it was?

How about a helmet cam? Pretty shakey, yes, but you can always have the fun of first person shooter looking for the Boss of the Level.

Any of these guys have one of those shoot-around-the-corner guns with camera attached? Or was it only IR? Light intensification? Both?

Hey! Its nice getting news shots the day after from Pakistani sources, but you would think that el Presidente would want a bit more documentation than a pic or two of Weekend at Binny’s. And the jihadist element in the ME is always riled up, they go ballistic over cartoons for Pete’s sake, so they can’t get more than hyperventilated seeing a ventilated Binny. And the American public sees worse on video games these days… so why not show the Level Boss biting the big one? Or is how you do it super-duper secret and they shouldn’t have even told us about the entire thing since now we have hints of how to do it on our lonesome?

At this rate people will start wondering if the daughter or one of the ‘wives’ was 6’3″-ish, thin, had on a full burqa, sunglasses and spoke with a hoarse voice. Not that jihadis dress up in drag all the time: only when they are cornered or trying to carry out a mission would they do that.

ajacksonian on May 5, 2011 at 8:28 PM

KRAUTHAMMER: “The only way the president ordered the raid the way he did — a risky operation, he could have ordered a predator and destroyed that compound and reduced bin Laden to a cinder — the reason he ordered a raid, a risky operation, is to produce the proof of death. We did not enter all of this to just produce a trophy and I’m not sure why the president has this sort of almost compulsive need to morally preen that he’s not spiking the football when I haven’t heard anybody that wants to do it for that reason.”

You know, I had not thought of that. Obama did it this way so we would have proof. Now he’s not revealing any of the proof. We’re all suppose to just take his word for it. The story keeps changing every few hours as well, which doesn’t help anyone’s believability.
First there were 40 Seals, now it’s 20. First he was using his AK-47, then he wasn’t, then he was sort of then not again then the AK was just in the room somewhere, maybe. First he was using a woman for a shield, then he wasn’t, then she lunged at the soldier then he pushed the woman instead and now which is it? Heck, maybe they thought it was Bin laden then found out it wasn’t?

If there are this many screw ups with just presenting the facts of what occurred, how do we know their intelligence was any good in the first place. Maybe the facts that were presented to those in charge of the mission kept changing as quickly as this story does.
Maybe the whole thing was flawlessly executed or maybe a disaster and nothing but a double or a goat farmer in the wrong place at the wrong time was killed. And now it’s all CYA but how would anyone know since evidence is not going to be presented to the public.

JellyToast on May 5, 2011 at 8:31 PM

Birtherism is dead! Long live the Deathers!

JellyToast on May 5, 2011 at 8:33 PM

Birtherism is dead! Long live the Deathers!

JellyToast on May 5, 2011 at 8:33 PM

Afterbirthers? :D

Lawdawg86 on May 5, 2011 at 8:48 PM

Obama did it this way so we would have proof.

JellyToast on May 5, 2011 at 8:31 PM

When Obama says “we”, he means he and his administration, not the American people.

ProfessorMiao on May 5, 2011 at 8:52 PM

In case anybody else isn’t near a TV, here’s the live stream: http://live.foxnews.com/

Lawdawg86 on May 5, 2011 at 8:54 PM

In case anybody else isn’t near a TV, here’s the live stream: http://live.foxnews.com/

Lawdawg86 on May 5, 2011 at 8:54 PM

…er, wrong thread

Lawdawg86 on May 5, 2011 at 8:55 PM

Col.John Wm. Reed on May 5, 2011 at 8:25 PM

I read this yesterday and it is very interesting and pretty damning of Obama’s leadership. At the same time, Clinton and Panetta come across as angels. I’d like another source to verify the accounts to be sure this isn’t a Clinton operative planting a story to make her team look good at Obambi’s expense.

Mallard T. Drake on May 5, 2011 at 9:05 PM

Obama had a birth certificate, but he wasn’t going to show it.

Now Obama has a Bin Laden photo, but he’s not going to show it.

What’s next?

We need a president for the people, not his re-election.

profitsbeard on May 5, 2011 at 9:10 PM

ProfessorMiao on May 5, 2011 at 8:52 PM

Obama: What do you mean “we”, white man?

That’s what I always hear, anyway.

Fortunata on May 5, 2011 at 9:33 PM

Col.John Wm. Reed on May 5, 2011 at 8:25 PM

I read this yesterday and it is very interesting and pretty damning of Obama’s leadership. At the same time, Clinton and Panetta come across as angels. I’d like another source to verify the accounts to be sure this isn’t a Clinton operative planting a story to make her team look good at Obambi’s expense.

Mallard T. Drake on May 5, 2011 at 9:05 PM

From the first Ulsterman “White House Insider” piece late last summer, people have speculated that the Insider is a Clintonite. They usually guess he is James Carville, Rham Emanuel, or one of their associates.

flyfisher on May 5, 2011 at 9:41 PM

Col.John Wm. Reed on May 5, 2011 at 8:25 PM

Thanks for the post. For those that don’t know, Jarrett is a communist. She has no reason to see America succeed. Her main objective is to stay in power followed by not being prosecuted for her misdeeds back in Illinois…

Gohawgs on May 5, 2011 at 10:11 PM

chemman on May 5, 2011 at 8:28 PM

My point exactly.

BigAlSouth on May 5, 2011 at 10:26 PM

If he didn’t give the order then that means someone on his staff did and then dragged him kicking and screaming to the command center. If so then his staff participated in a temporary coup to get the job done. That is not good news.

chemman on May 5, 2011 at 8:28 PM

But why wouldn’t they use the mind-control rays on Obama?

This is exactly the problem with these “questions” about Obama and the death of Osama. They are utterly f**king crazy. The best way to get rid of Obama is the election of 2012. The best way to win that election is to talk about real issues.

thuja on May 5, 2011 at 10:44 PM

The mission was not conducted so the public could ‘see’ the result. It was to make sure that OBL was positively identified and neutralized.

No. According to accounts Obama deliberately chose a manned raid so that there would be proof of death, as opposed to a pile of rubble with unidentifiable bodies in it.

That was the stated reason.

Missy on May 5, 2011 at 11:23 PM

Col.John Wm. Reed on May 5, 2011 at 8:25 PM

I am not persuaded that the WH Insider is reliable, generally. However, in this case his account does square with one thing – Jarrett was not in that photo and has been completely invisible this entire time.

Since it is rare for Jarrett not to be within feet of Obama in any official situation, this strongly suggests that she was not on board with the mission.

My spidey sense says her influence is waning since Daley came to town.

Missy on May 5, 2011 at 11:30 PM

Maybe it wasn’t really OBL, but a body double. Maybe that’s why the Paks didn’t care if we sent a Seal team in to get him. Maybe that’s why he wasn’t guarded well and didn’t greet the Seals with a gun in his hands. Since the story keeps evolving and supposedly the body was dropped into the briny, we may never know the truth.

Kissmygrits on May 6, 2011 at 12:37 AM

Jessica Lynch
Pat Tillman

The above 2 events, shrouded in the “fog of war”, took months and years to get to a finale accounting. In the first few weeks of both incidents the “official” story changed numerous times. Back then, hypocritically, no one here was asserting what they are now.

If you believe something nefarious is going on, now you know who taught O what to do.

The event happened 5 days ago. Seals are being debriefed. If 4 people see the same car accident you will receive 4 different stories from them. Video is being analyzed which is most likely shakier then The Blair Witch Project. Tons of info are being digested.

The narrative isn’t finished yet. Can’t you wait until an official CIA or military report is released before you start with all this nonsense?

Bill Blizzard on May 6, 2011 at 3:04 AM

The narrative isn’t finished yet. Can’t you wait until an official CIA or military report is released before you start with all this nonsense?

Bill Blizzard on May 6, 2011 at 3:04 AM

There would be much less “nonsense” to speculate about if the Obama Administration was more honest and upfront about the mission.

BigAlSouth on May 6, 2011 at 6:24 AM

if the Obama Administration was more honest and upfront about the mission.

BigAlSouth on May 6, 2011 at 6:24 AM

That “if” died in the womb.

SKYFOX on May 6, 2011 at 7:05 AM

Update: New report claims Bin Laden was “scared, confused”

Poor baby!

MaiDee on May 6, 2011 at 9:38 AM

Is the point here that, if Osama was going to surrender, it was “wrong” for US troops to simply put him out of his misery on the spot?
My guess is that, leaving aside any commendations for bravery or military distinction, the SEAL who put two slugs into bin Laden instead of taking him into custody should probably be given a cash award for saving the taxpayers an incredible fortune.

morganfrost on May 6, 2011 at 10:32 AM

I read the above article and wonder, once again in frustration, why we turn ourselves inside and out over things that don’t matter.

Does anyone really care whether he was confused, armed or wearing a vest? Do we? He was a dead man the minute he gave the order back in 2001. There was no military personnel that would do anything other than put two in his head when given the chance. He knew it, they knew it, apparently some of our leaders, Leftists and a couple of people here can’t seem to grasp it. He was done and done a long time ago.

As for the time it took to get to the third floor, depending on the clearance commands given, whether to watch for IEDs or just rush the targets and clear rooms, the SEALS could have made their way up to the third floor in minutes. Sure he knew they were coming. In fact, a buddy of mine sent me what his final thoughts were. (http://truthandcommonsense.com/2011/05/06/the-bin-laden-mural-what-was-his-last-thoughts/)

He also may have decided- and hoped- our cancerous political correctness would allow him to survive (remember who is the President and what Holder has done) if he dropped to the floor and gave up. What he didn’t understand is that SEALS can’t spell PC if you gave them the “P”. They were under orders, the correct ones by the way, and wouldn’t have followed any others anyway.

Notice how there is now a 25 minute convenient “blackout” during the raid. Why? Because we have a photo of a bunch of OUR leaders watching the execution of a terrorist live. Imagine the potential blowback when someone asks BO if he actually saw the execution. Now they can all say that the feed suddenly switched to the basketball game for twenty and then back again when all the shooting had stopped. Gee… it is a mystery how all that worked out!

archer52 on May 6, 2011 at 11:26 AM

So now all the Monday morning quarterbacks creep out of the woodwork second guessing the door kickers.

abcurtis on May 6, 2011 at 11:43 AM

bin Laden buried at sea.

justltl on May 6, 2011 at 5:20 PM

There would be much less “nonsense” to speculate about if the Obama Administration was more honest and upfront about the mission.

BigAlSouth on May 6, 2011 at 6:24 AM

We know for a fact that the Bush admin lied about Pat Tillman.

Bill Blizzard on May 7, 2011 at 3:47 PM

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