Wikileaks doc: Tajikistan warned U.S. that Pakistan was protecting Bin Laden
posted at 6:53 pm on May 2, 2011 by Allahpundit
Do tell. Coincidentally, a U.S. intelligence official flatly told Long War Journal that they didn’t give Pakistan a heads up on the Bin Laden raid because, very simply, ISI “could not be trusted” with the information.
Remember, this is our alleged regional partner in counterterrorism.
American diplomats were told that one of the key reasons why they had failed to find bin Laden was that Pakistan’s security services tipped him off whenever US troops approached…
According to a US diplomatic dispatch, General Abdullo Sadulloevich Nazarov, a senior Tajik counterterrorism official, told the Americans that “many” inside Pakistan knew where bin Laden was.
The document stated: “In Pakistan, Osama Bin Laden wasn’t an invisible man, and many knew his whereabouts in North Waziristan, but whenever security forces attempted a raid on his hideouts, the enemy received warning of their approach from sources in the security forces.”
Supposedly that warning came in December 2009. Was Bin Laden still in North Waziristan at the time, or had he already moved to his luxe new digs in beautiful sunny Abbottabad? Ah well, no matter. If you’re still unsure whether higher-ups in Pakistan knew OBL’s whereabouts, let’s put it this way: The best evidence that they didn’t know where he was hiding is that the location of his hiding place makes it look waaaaay too much like they knew exactly where he was hiding. Would any self-respecting Pakistani intel officer sign off on stashing him inside a giant fortified eyesore located a stone’s throw from Pakistan’s equivalent of West Point, knowing that if we ever figured out where he was, it would look for all the world like he was there with the government’s permission?
Well, would they?
Abbottabad is essentially a military cantonment city in Pakistan, in the hills to the north of the capital of Islamabad, in an area where much of the land is controlled or owned by the Pakistan Army and retired army officers. Although the city is technically in what used to be called the Northwest Frontier Province, it lies to the far eastern side of the province and is as close to Pakistani-held Kashmir as it is to the border city of Peshawar. The city is most notable for housing the Pakistan Military Academy, the Pakistan Army’s premier training college, equivalent to West Point. Looking at maps and satellite photos on the Web last night, I saw the wide expanse of the Academy not far from where the million-dollar, heavily secured mansion where bin Laden lived was constructed in 2005. The maps I looked at had sections of land nearby marked off as “restricted area,” indicating that it was under military control. It stretches credulity to think that a mansion of that scale could have been built and occupied by bin Laden for six years without it coming to the attention of anyone in Pakistan’s Army.
The initial circumstantial evidence suggests the opposite is more likely—that bin Laden was effectively being housed under Pakistani state control. Pakistan will deny this, it seems safe to predict, and perhaps no convincing evidence will ever surface to prove the case. If I were a prosecutor at the United States Department of Justice, however, I would be tempted to call a grand jury. Who owned the land on which the house was constructed? How was the land acquired, and from whom? Who designed the house, which seems to have been purpose-built to secure bin Laden? Who was the general contractor? Who installed the security systems? Who worked there? Are there witnesses who will now testify as to who visited the house, how often, and for what purpose?
Actually, the house might not have been built to house Bin Laden. It might have been built for — ta da! — Pakistan’s intelligence service:
The compound in Abbottabad where Osama Bin Laden was killed was once used as a safe house by Pakistan’s premier intelligence agency ISI, Gulf News has learnt.
“This area had been used as ISI’s safe house, but it was not under their use any more because they keep on changing their locations,” a senior intelligence official confided to Gulf News. However, he did not reveal when and for how long it was used by the ISI operatives. Another official cautiously said “it may not be the same house but the same compound or area used by the ISI”.
The official also confirmed that the house was rented out by Afghan nationals and is not owned by the government.
So Osama, on this theory, was some sort of squatter in a former ISI safe house — possibly for years — and it just so happened that the ISI (a) never once used the property again and stumbled upon him there, (b) never took notice of the fact that a big group was living in the house and doing strange things like burning their own trash in the backyard, or (c) never had a cursory look around the area after another arch-terrorist, namely Umar Patek, was captured in the same city just last month.
John Brennan acknowledged at today’s presser that it’s inconceivable that Bin Laden had no help inside Pakistan, but he refused to say that it must have been government help. That fell to former defense analyst John McCreary, who told Time magazine point-blank, “Bin Laden could not have lived in a compound in Abbottabad without official Pakistani government sustenance… Abbottabad is an upscale area and a garrison town, but not so large as to be impersonal. Bin Laden was living in protected luxury. Many people had to know that and probably will come forward in a little time.”
Hitchens, who thankfully lived long enough to write Bin Laden’s obituary, puts it thusly:
If you tell me that you are staying in a rather nice walled compound in Abbottabad, I can tell you in return that you are the honored guest of a military establishment that annually consumes several billion dollars of American aid. It’s the sheer blatancy of it that catches the breath.
There’s perhaps some slight satisfaction to be gained from this smoking-gun proof of official Pakistani complicity with al-Qaida, but in general it only underlines the sense of anticlimax. After all, who did not know that the United States was lavishly feeding the same hands that fed Bin Laden? There’s some minor triumph, also, in the confirmation that our old enemy was not a heroic guerrilla fighter but the pampered client of a corrupt and vicious oligarchy that runs a failed and rogue state…
The martyr of Abbottabad is no more, and the competing Führer-complexes of his surviving underlings will perhaps now enjoy an exciting free rein. Yet the uniformed and anonymous patrons of that sheltered Abbottabad compound are still very much with us, and Obama’s speech will be entirely worthless if he expects us to go on arming and financing the very people who made this trackdown into such a needlessly long, arduous and costly one.
That’s actually the best answer to the question I posed up front. Would a Pakistani intelligence official tolerate Bin Laden living next door to the country’s military establishment? Sure, why not? What will they lose by hiding him in plain sight? Thanks to their nuclear bargaining chip and the eternal fear of what would happen to it if the state either broke down or launched a rash attack on India, we’ll never abandon them to the fate they deserve. They’re too big nuts to fail. They might as well stash Zawahiri in the basement of the presidential palace for all the repercussions they’ll suffer for doing so. In fact, given how diseased that society is, ISI may have calculated that hiding Bin Laden in plain sight near a military facility would reassure jihadis if he was ever caught by the U.S. It’d be de facto proof to the mujahedeen that Osama had been well taken care of by the state and that the American operation was an independent affair.
The one thing I can’t figure out given all the reports of Pakistan not being tipped off is how we managed to get four choppers and some drones that deep into Pakistani territory. Danger Room insists that Bin Laden’s compound was essentially “drone-proof” because Pakistani SAMs would shoot down any Predators that strayed into the area. Either we’re jamming their radar somehow or someone must have known and kept quiet. And to be fair, there are reports of Pakistani intelligence officials on the scene during the raid or supplying the U.S. with raw phone data — although, unsurprisingly, they’re coming from Pakistan itself, not the U.S.
Update: Senior U.S. officials think Bin Laden lived in the house for at least three years, and possibly since it was built in 2005. And no one knew anything. No one knew anything.









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Kind of puts Raymond Davis’s confinement in Pakistani custody into perspective.
Dr Evil on May 2, 2011 at 7:00 PM
I guess that photo on the home page makes it look less trashy, i.e., trees and greenery. Otherwise, that had to be a million dollar slum compound.
As already pointed out, that hovel stood out like a sore thumb and anyone with an IQ over 70 had to know someone was hiding there.
Blake on May 2, 2011 at 7:00 PM
Can’t be true!
It’s been all over the news that Obama singlehandedly tracked, killed, and then mounted OBL
cntrlfrk on May 2, 2011 at 7:01 PM
They’ve been protecting Saeed Sheikh the 9/11 money man for a long time as well.
Spathi on May 2, 2011 at 7:01 PM
The 9/11 – the Money Trail
Spathi on May 2, 2011 at 7:02 PM
By the way, it turns out Petraeus and Gates were in the same city last year.
amerpundit on May 2, 2011 at 7:02 PM
For almost 8 years Bush was telling us that Pakistan was our ally in the war on terror. Most people suspected that was crap. It was Pakistan troops that let bin Laden into Pakistan at Tora Bora.
Please, no more neocons. All we need is some good intelligence and some special forces. We don’t need to spend a trillion dollars for ten years to prop up some islamic hellhole. Ditto Saddam and his islamic hellhole.
keep the change on May 2, 2011 at 7:02 PM
Yuck. Obama to give speech at WTC Thurs. Milking it to the bone.
andy85719 on May 2, 2011 at 7:03 PM
O.T. but on an up note: Bradley Manning got knocked off the news cycle again. His defense is whining that he had more charges filed against him. They always plan these big PR campaigns for him but they end up on page 40.
Blake on May 2, 2011 at 7:03 PM
Weird moment on the Dennis Miller show today where he was talking about reading Michael Chrichton’s “Travels” and then hearing a commotion outside his hotel. People were cheering in the street that obl was dead. He picks up his book again and right after that reads the passage where Chrichton was lunching in … Abbottabad.
Nothing important there, but how freaky is that?
WitchDoctor on May 2, 2011 at 7:05 PM
Since we cant nuke em how about hitting Pakistan with our new big hog pork chop bomb. Delicious!
faol on May 2, 2011 at 7:06 PM
The ISI helped Gulbudden Hekmatyar start up Hizb-i-Islami in 1972. He was an Afghan who helped the Taliban get going against the USSR. The Taliban worked with bin Laden before he formed al Qaeda, and then formed it after working with them. Hekmatyar would be the Prime Minister of Afghanistan under the Taliban, and successfully spread his organization to a little country called… China.
The Chinese sent arms and technology to convince him not to start uprisings there.
He runs the largest terror organization in Asia.
He currently uses a refugee camp as his base of operations, knowing it can’t be hit due to the civilians around him.
The ISI still helps him, he still helps the Taliban, and he worked with al Qaeda to form up the cross-working organization known as the Shadow Army.
Did the Pakistani Government know that bin Laden was there?
With the ISI at work it would be impossible for them NOT to know.
ajacksonian on May 2, 2011 at 7:07 PM
The one thing I can’t figure out given all the reports of Pakistan not being tipped off is how we managed to get four choppers and some drones that deep into Pakistani territory. Danger Room insists that Bin Laden’s compound was essentially “drone-proof” because Pakistani SAMs would shoot down any Predators that strayed into the area.
The Beast of Kandahar, the RQ-170, is stealthy: Return of The ‘Beast of Kandahar’ Stealth Drone
slickwillie2001 on May 2, 2011 at 7:07 PM
The truth will never be known about Paki help or the entire mission and the timing, communiques, process and etc.
It appears, however, that the terrorist in chief lived nicely tucked among generals, doctors and etc., without being given up.
Billions of U.S. dollars bougth a lot.
Schadenfreude on May 2, 2011 at 7:08 PM
I’m shocked, shocked! You don’t say! We should go back and get the money we’ve paid them with interest. The hard way.
Philly on May 2, 2011 at 7:08 PM
The 9/11 money man Saeed Sheikh wasn’t just protected by the ISI, but he’s was believed to be a member of the ISI.
Spathi on May 2, 2011 at 7:11 PM
OT – You need to check out the cartoons at Townhall.com. This one made be cough up a lung.
mechkiller_k on May 2, 2011 at 7:13 PM
President Jackass will be campaigning at Ground Zero later this week. Another shocker. Maybe Donald Trump will show up.
Philly on May 2, 2011 at 7:13 PM
So do we need to be best buddies with Pakistan anymore?
We got the treasure they were hiding. No need to pretend to be nice with them anymore.
And lets not discuss how Pakistan is becoming best buddies with China….
albill on May 2, 2011 at 7:13 PM
OT: Sheppy Smith just reported that Odumba$$ will be at ground zero on Thursday………..keeping mouth closed.
sicoit on May 2, 2011 at 7:14 PM
If you read Ghost Wars by Steve Coll, you’ll see this goes all the way back to the war against the Soviets. ISI has always been radical but the Army less so. The CIA kept a beard count as a way to keep track of the radicalization level.
The ISI was behind the Taliban and is responsible for their takeover of Afghanistan post Soviet pull out and civil war. Problem with Pakistan is there is a split internally that is probably greater today than it was then. That’s why some help and some some hurt. Problem is knowing who is who.
TheBigOldDog on May 2, 2011 at 7:15 PM
Oh, Goodie!
Obama’s going to have his GWB moment at the WTC site on Thursday. Rejoice.
Key West Reader on May 2, 2011 at 7:16 PM
Heard that. Will he have time to fit in a fundraiser for the Wall Street types?
slickwillie2001 on May 2, 2011 at 7:17 PM
Exactly. Bush’s and the neocon stance to prop up Pakistan was the dumbest thing they ever did. I suspect Obama’s bravado comes only from his antipathy to Bush which turned out to be advantageous in the end.
promachus on May 2, 2011 at 7:19 PM
I love Tajikistan.
“Tajikistan prostitutes cleanest in the region..
except, of course, for Turkmenistan”.
Much better people than the filthy Uzbeks, with bone in their brain.
aquaviva on May 2, 2011 at 7:20 PM
After ten years, maybe we’ve figured out, to an extent, whom we can trust in Pakistan, and who is, ah, a little short in the trustworthy department.
rbj on May 2, 2011 at 7:20 PM
Overreach.
the_nile on May 2, 2011 at 7:20 PM
Are Republicans jealous that Obama got him and not Bush.
This seems to be the case.
Spathi on May 2, 2011 at 7:21 PM
Pakistan has been funding terrorists since the 1950′s. Not just against India but against the Ahmadiyya sect… and later the Balochistani who feel they got lied to and shafted about what Pakistan would become.
They started this way before the USSR got into Afghanistan, and commissioned Hekmatyar to be their agent long, long before the USSR invaded.
Mind you the folks along the Af-Pak border waited out a 100 year British mandate and they don’t really consider the border to be all that valid. Which leads to fun’n'games in the ‘tribal territories’.
Then throw in the Iranian regime sponsoring a few groups for their own reasons.
Mind you, the ISI semi-works with those, too.
ajacksonian on May 2, 2011 at 7:22 PM
I’m surprised a liberal President would allow that.
Geronimo is a still a hero in AZ. And my own Grandfather’s writings (long long generations) tell how he witnessed Geronimo being treated very poorly by the US soldiers who captured him.
That is a poor name for bin Laden. It gives him too much dignity.
petunia on May 2, 2011 at 7:23 PM
US Seals got him. Credit those who put their lives on the line. To the extend Dear Liar “got” him it was by continuing Bush era policies.
rbj on May 2, 2011 at 7:24 PM
No, but we understand that Bush campaigning at Ground Zero or repeatedly claiming credit would have been ripped apart. Also, the media would have questioned the morality of killing Osama instead of giving him a fair trial.
amerpundit on May 2, 2011 at 7:24 PM
“Dead or alive”, and none other matters. Actually better dead than alive, due to insane liberal lawyers, who’d set him free.
Schadenfreude on May 2, 2011 at 7:24 PM
Let’s be honest here: Obama has taken a harder line with Pakistan than Bush did.
Bush was rightly concerned, I think, by the fear of a destabilized Pakistan and its nuclear arsenal falling to the radicals. Maybe too afraid.
I think Bush would have informed Islamabad about this operation and the ISI would have blown it and told Bin Laden to move.
Obama rolled the dice and he got a natural.
SteveMG on May 2, 2011 at 7:25 PM
Your allied with Islam, you have to be pretty stupid and totally ignorant about Islam to expect a positive outcome. Ignorance and stupidity catalyzed by hubris, sure cure against winning.
BL@KBIRD on May 2, 2011 at 7:26 PM
I’m moving. This shameless self-promotion will undoubtedly get Fauxbama re-elected so that he can harikari the U.S. further. I don’t want any of my money in dollars. The second I graduate, I’m off to Brazil or Chile, where they actually care about their economy. Just a month ago, Obama was threatening to withhold military pay. Now he is God incarnate.
andy85719 on May 2, 2011 at 7:26 PM
Were you jealous when Bush ‘got’ Zarquawi, Saddam Hussein’s sons, or himself?
Puerile thoughts. Just kill them.
Schadenfreude on May 2, 2011 at 7:26 PM
…and he will bring his puerile arrogant smirks with him…
Schadenfreude on May 2, 2011 at 7:27 PM
Rumsfeld: Bin Laden Info From Gitmo Detainees Was Not Obtained Through ‘Harsh Treatment’ Or ‘Waterboarding’
Spathi on May 2, 2011 at 7:28 PM
Hmmmmmm let’s see now….5 weekends of golf, parties, WHCD, Oprah, 3 fundraisers in NYC, continuous campaigning (since 2008), etc. I dunno, would probably interfere with his “social calendar”. We all know how that is numero uno in teh won’s life….
sicoit on May 2, 2011 at 7:29 PM
had he already moved to his luxe new digs in beautiful sunny Abbottabad?
I think he was subletting in Costelloaztan while waiting for the environmental impact statement.
William Teach on May 2, 2011 at 7:29 PM
Video: Rush Limbaugh On Barack Obama and Osama bin Laden’s Death
http://conservativeblogscentral.blogspot.com/2011/05/video-rush-limbaugh-on-barack-obama-and.html
Nearly Nobody on May 2, 2011 at 7:33 PM
Which conservatives were celebrating the use of “harsh interrogations” this morning as evidence the ends justifies the means?
Spathi on May 2, 2011 at 7:35 PM
“Would I launch a missle if my friend Osama is hiding in this Pakistani safe house”
HarryStar on May 2, 2011 at 7:36 PM
I don’t think most people realize Pakistan is so deeply divided nor how directly involved they have been and are. The Bush ultimatum “you’re with us or against us” was mainly to them the way I see it. Looks like they did just enough to appear “helpful.”
The idea sort of implied in this post that it just dawned on us that Pakistanis weren’t to be trusted is dead wrong as documented in Ghost Wars. It’s been known for a long, long time.
TheBigOldDog on May 2, 2011 at 7:36 PM
No wonder gas is so high. We’re paying off Paki officials for the right to kill OBL. Otherwise, this may have never happened.
capejasmine on May 2, 2011 at 7:38 PM
Khadify should be sleeping a lot less soundly. I salute the members of our armed services.
SC.Charlie on May 2, 2011 at 7:39 PM
Obama got him? I thought the Navy Seals, and the CIA got him? Hmmmmmmm. Wow! Now how could Obama have been watching from a room in the WH, and be Obambo in Pakistan at the same time? hmmmmmmmmmmmm
capejasmine on May 2, 2011 at 7:39 PM
The discussion from here on out should really be what to do with Pakistan. Our aid, their nukes, an alliance with India and the location Zawahiri. All eyes on Pakistan.
Daemonocracy on May 2, 2011 at 7:40 PM
Actually, Iraq is now infinitely harder to defend than Bush’s dual-track engagement with Pakistan. Going to war with an unstable Pakistan would have been much more costly, and it may be inevitable, but Iraq makes even less sense now. Unless, of course, there was some other grand plot by Saddam to host Al Qaeda to which we’re not yet privy, such as bracketing Iran for some later engagement.
As other commentators have noted, there are no honest actors in MENA; and if you think you can play in the sandbox without being duplicitous many times over, you’re going to get eaten alive.
chimney sweep on May 2, 2011 at 7:41 PM
“Bush Home Buzzing After Bin Laden Killing” on drudge
Bush supporters are nauseating
Spathi on May 2, 2011 at 7:42 PM
Reality check
Schadenfreude on May 2, 2011 at 7:44 PM
Obama as*crawlers are disgusting. Media are included.
Schadenfreude on May 2, 2011 at 7:44 PM
Boy, I sure hate to sound snarky. I did as much of a “Snoopy dance” as anyone when I heard the news last night, but two things keep niggling at my brain. The first is that the intense coverage this is receiving may only serve to elevate the importance of someone who had become pretty marginalized from a command and control perspective. Not that we shouldn’t have killed him…but how about announcing it and moving on? The second one is that the more I hear about the actual ops, I’ma thinking this was Obama’s “Blind Squirrel Moment.” Meaning, he got very, very lucky that all went down as planned and that no American lives were lost. I expect to be excoriated on here for my opinion.
All that being said, I’m uber-glad we killed the #$%^$….Just wish the bullets had been made out of bacon.
Chewy the Lab on May 2, 2011 at 7:45 PM
Heh, the gave ObL the name “Jeronimo”.
“Mission accomplished, Sir. Jeronimo is dead”.
The left will claim this harms some minority in 3, 2, 1…oh, wait, they won’t because Obama ordered this.
Schadenfreude on May 2, 2011 at 7:46 PM
A gal that works for me told me today that she did not vote for Obama – that she was not a big fan – before. Now she is. She says that since he’s killed Osama, she’ll probably vote for him this time.
I wonder how many other dancing-in-the-streets voting-aged kids and blowing-in-the-wind independents now think Obama is a hero?
Rod on May 2, 2011 at 7:46 PM
Haven’t read the book, but did independent research on what went on their post-independence/separation.
The place is a mess, but the most competent of the terror groups are those around the Baluchs: they have been a thorn in the side of Iran and Pakistan, and yet they can’t be fingered directly. Everyone knows they take out Iranian local administrators, but you can’t prove it… and in Pakistan they get respect from the other groups.
Along the Af-Pak and Pak-Ind borders the tribes still retain their older heritage on how to fight wars: its done via local organizations called Lashkars. The Lashkar system was used by the ISI to get back at India for Casmir, and then to try and influence Afghanistan. Lashkars are generally not large military groups, but can range up to 15,000 fighters under a warlord. The Mehsud brothers were each warlords, and the troops consolidated as each brother was taken out as it was a tribal affiliation structure (unlike Lashkar-e-Toiba which has different tribes contributing to it).
Alexander had the place pretty well figured out: you have to beat the locals at their own game. That is still the way it is today, but we don’t study history any more so forget that the West had been very successful there and it hasn’t changed much since that time, socially.
Nixon was nuts to try and use them as a ‘counter-balance’ to Soviet influence in India. Trying to ‘help’ China by allying with Afghanistan instead of appealing to another representative democracy is just wrong on so many levels as not to be funny. It got us the Soviets in Afghanistan to counter us in Pakistan. All the time the ISI was fomenting unrest and trying to sway power no matter which superpower was hanging around.
ajacksonian on May 2, 2011 at 7:46 PM
Trolls are worse.
chimney sweep on May 2, 2011 at 7:48 PM
Affluent, luxe, mansion… I don’t think these things mean what they think they mean. At least compared to the U.S.
Greed on May 2, 2011 at 7:49 PM
No, actually, you’re nauseatingly stupid. Now STFU and go away.
NathanG on May 2, 2011 at 7:50 PM
Bush trolls are rallying outside the Freedom ranch!
Spathi on May 2, 2011 at 7:51 PM
ok that didn’t take long. I’m offically bored to death about the OBL overload. all day…the media talked more about this guy today than they have for the last 10 years combined….I didn’t think they could but becaus eof their nonstop wall to wall coverage I don’t car eif I ever hear the man’s name again…
unseen on May 2, 2011 at 7:51 PM
Let’s see: you read a couple of comments that sounded like they were peeved and decided to paint all Republicans as such. Right?
Typical.
Rod on May 2, 2011 at 7:51 PM
Pakistan better start kill the Taliban PDQ or we might “accidentally” bomb some of them.
Oh, and they can stop persecuting Christians while they’re at it.
Iblis on May 2, 2011 at 7:52 PM
Pfffffftttttt. I was going to make a remark, but why waste my time?
Anywho, just heard Odumba$$ is going to make another “I”, “ME” spew before he and moochelle host another dinner party…..it’s good to be the king aye?
sicoit on May 2, 2011 at 7:57 PM
It was a code name used with which I am sure that Obama had no input. When I was a child, a post WWII child, we would jump out of our swings at their apogee screaming Geronimo, just as airborne troops in WWII were encouraged to do.
SC.Charlie on May 2, 2011 at 7:58 PM
If you believe that I have some high quality beach front property here in NE Arizona that I will sell you.
chemman on May 2, 2011 at 8:01 PM
The whole problem with radar systems is by activating them you make yourself quite the target for a HARM to nail you. In the age of stealth tech, active radar can be quite the disadvantage.
clement on May 2, 2011 at 8:02 PM
This should drive us right into the arms of the other nuclear power in the region and one that’s more freindly to us anyway…India. And cut all aid to pakistan immediately and permanently.
Big John on May 2, 2011 at 8:06 PM
Call you priest, pastor, shrink or life coach and see if he/she/it cares.
BTW you are a slaver. You want to enslave all of our progeny to the nth generation to pay for your wants today. So go pound sand.
chemman on May 2, 2011 at 8:09 PM
Peter King (R-NY) on BOR confirms waterboarding led to information on OBL courier.
slickwillie2001 on May 2, 2011 at 8:11 PM
Presumes a bit there. India didn’t want to be our bulwark against the Soviets or Chinese. If it’s not in their immediate interest we can’t presume they are interested.
chimney sweep on May 2, 2011 at 8:14 PM
cripe omighty….
not ONE MORE DIME to this country….3billion a year, no more…
cmsinaz on May 2, 2011 at 8:23 PM
India was actively courting the USSR during the ’70s, to the extent they got nuclear technology from them in the form of reactors. India was also seen by the Chinese as a threat to them due to border disputes, that are still ongoing.
Nixon sought to curry favor with the Chinese by courting their trading partner, Pakistan. That was Realpolitik at its finest: snubbing a representative democracy to go court a country that was faltering between semi-representative democracy and full-on dictatorship, as was happening with Zia at the time.
Before, during and after that Pakistan has been seeking to destabilize India over Casmir Province.
And get a grip on Afghanistan.
And get nuclear technology.
Plus purchase US high tech systems, like the F-16 back when that was a new platform.
America has some soul searching to do about what it is we actually support and if we are willing to get into the rough and tumble of actually supporting what we believe in. Be nice if we had a President who didn’t see outreach to autocrats, despots and budding authoritarians as a good thing…
ajacksonian on May 2, 2011 at 8:24 PM
Or we’re squacking Pakistani AF transponder and IFF codes.
Purple Fury on May 2, 2011 at 8:29 PM
This doesn’t jive with what I’ve read about the situation. The US enjoined India multiple times during the Cold War and we were rejected. India didn’t want to be our bulwark against either Communist gorilla.
chimney sweep on May 2, 2011 at 8:35 PM
It now seems certain that the US knew where Osama was located. The question is why hadn’t the US picked him before now.
rock the casbah on May 2, 2011 at 9:04 PM
Personally, forget about NPR: it is time to freaking defund this ISI anti-American cabal of terrorists now.
Target ISI. Take them out and that country has a chance.
AshleyTKing on May 2, 2011 at 9:12 PM
They rejected us as they were courting the Soviets for nuclear technology.
We had the options of:
- Supply them with such technology in a bidding war, which was a lose-lose situation,
- Punish them by propping up Pakistan, which was a nasty place to start with but gets us some credit with the Chinese, a few points but generally a losing scenario,
- Continue the courting and pointing out that we do have more in common than in difference, which would have kept the USSR busy in India in competition with us and would have boosted the visibility of India because BOTH superpowers saw it as an important ally… this would have ticked of the Chinese no end, however, not that they would do much about it save help Pakistan/Bangladesh more.
We didn’t need them as a bulwark, we needed them to NOT support the USSR and at least make a great show of being indecisive. That would have helped us a lot more than going to Pakistan ever did. But that was not the mentality of the Nixon-Kissinger way of things. It was even batted about that we would be willing to extend our defense coverage to India so that they would have some protection against Chinese nuclear capability… India wanted it home grown, but it would have been better to be involved and offer decent safeguards for nuclear technology so if they did acquire nuclear devices they would not drive the nuclear rivalry with Pakistan.
That’s what I’ve seen, at least going by the historical documents and some of the analysis of what was going on. By setting our sights on a bulwark we missed out on the chance of neutralizing India and letting them take the positiong of being courted by the important players. That would have allowed some longer term inroads for commercial activity as well as help to safeguard against a fast expanding nuclear neighborhood. The mindset drove away from an optimal solution that fit the National needs of all involved and would satisfy neither of the superpowers but lift India up regionally. I’m trying to remember who proposed that at the time… another cabinet member I think… but it was saner than what was done, thats for sure…
If we believe in the superiority of representative democracy and competition via trade, we should practice it. If we don’t, then we should shut up about it.
Nixon loved price controls… and that mindset is part and parcel of what happened with India. He was unwilling to do the hard thing and support our ideals and, instead, went with the faltering democracy just as it went into a dicttorship mode under Zia. That didn’t get us a bulwark, didn’t stabilize the region, left us on the outside for India for decades, and helped the Chinese no end.
ajacksonian on May 2, 2011 at 9:14 PM
ISI headquaters. One bunkerbuster.
AshleyTKing on May 2, 2011 at 9:16 PM
If the house was next to a military base, wouldn’t the sound of helicopters flying over not be unusual? I can see how Bin Laden wouldn’t think anything out of the ordinary with helo’s flying overhead.
Based on the tweets of the guy who inadvertently tweeted the raid, the helo’s were flying so low that his windows shook. And he was a mile away from the activity. If helo’s overhead are unusual, wouldn’t Bin Laden heard it and greeted those SEAL’s as they were exiting the aircraft instead of staying in bed as if nothing out of the ordinary is going on.
Seems the brilliant plan to hide him in plain sight near a military compound worked so well, Bin Laden suspected nothing… as the SEAL’s essentially landed in his backyard.
ramrants on May 2, 2011 at 9:28 PM
ISI goodbye.
Well, maybe after 2012.
AshleyTKing on May 2, 2011 at 9:31 PM
Exactly. But that’s not the way it’s being painted in the media, or unfortunately, on Hotair.com. The US military had been going on incursions into Pakistan since at least 2004, but reading Hotair you would think the first time ever was yesterday.
I’m sure there were people in the Pakistani government who knew that Bin Laden was in Abbottabad, but I doubt it was very many. It would be pretty difficult to keep something like that quiet for 6 years if too many people knew about it, to say nothing of the attractive price on Bin Laden’s head.
And everybody involved in the war knows that the Pakistanis (and Egyptians, Yemenis, Saudis, Jordanians, Qataris, Kuwatis, etc, etc,) are not to be trusted. They do just enough to keep the US off their butt, and keep the aid flowing. Is there anybody out there who actually thinks that whatever help we get in security matters is because they like us, or are concerned about the USA?
Dreadnought on May 2, 2011 at 9:56 PM
ISI does what they do for a reason. It’s not that they’re as filled with jihadi freaks as everyone thinks. They just figure that the jihadis are the easy for them to control.
And that by controlling the jihadis/Taliban, they control Afghanistan and the NW Frontier, which they think might come in handy as a National Redoubt if the big war against India ever comes to pass, and the Indian tanks come sweeping across the Indus Plain.
Dropping a bomb on ISI just treats the symptom, not the cause.
There’s a serious problem in that country, as in most of the region, and the only thing that will solve it, is for it to advance out of the Middle Ages, and drop its grudge against India.
Don’t expect either one to happen soon.
Dreadnought on May 2, 2011 at 10:07 PM
It’s the Great Game. Been going on for a couple hundred years now. What a mess it always is.
Dreadnought on May 2, 2011 at 10:16 PM
It’s islam that keeps them in the Middle Ages. They can’t move without a reformation, and that’s unlikely.
slickwillie2001 on May 2, 2011 at 10:17 PM
You are correct, but there is even something more than that, a weird kind of national inferiority complex. I remember the quote I read some years back from a top Pakistani General, saying that Pakistan was a dirt poor country that the world hated, so they might as well start a nuclear war with India, becuase they wouldn’t be much worse off than they are now. The guy wasn’t kidding, either.
Dreadnought on May 2, 2011 at 10:29 PM
I’d say it’s possible that Pakistan didn’t know. Our government doesn’t know the identity of its illegal aliens.
John Deaux on May 3, 2011 at 8:02 AM
Low flying special helos that are built to run quiet. Drones are also hard to track on the deck.
What I don’t get is the firefight. It was unnecessary IMHO.
Think. Seals are expert marksmen armed with silenced long and short range weapons. A quiet snatch and grab would have succeeded in grabbing OBL, but would not provide a headline for Failbama.
Oh, and no martyrdom for OBL. This will bite us.
dogsoldier on May 3, 2011 at 11:18 AM
Some guys at UCLA provided a better and more specific lead.
lexhamfox on May 3, 2011 at 5:04 PM