Jan Brewer: Birtherism is leading America “down a path of destruction”

posted at 10:04 pm on April 25, 2011 by Allahpundit

A squeeze of rhetorical lemon juice in the wound she inflicted on Birthers with last week’s veto. The more aggressive she is on this issue, the more intrigued I am. It’s one thing to take the Romney/Pawlenty line and say that she believes Obama was born in Hawaii, but “path to destruction” is strong medicine even by the standards of adamant anti-Birthers. When I asked last week for theories as to why she would have vetoed the bill, a few people e-mailed to say she was being sly and counting on it to pass anyway via veto-proof majority. That seems unlikely now; opposition that weak wouldn’t have produced condemnation this strong.

I don’t want to build anticipation too much but what you’re about to see might be the first clip featuring a Republican to generate an Obama-esque leg thrill in Chris Matthews. Exit question: Last year she signed the immigration bill, and now this. Where exactly does that leave her on the left’s spectrum of GOP “racism”?


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Fed45 on April 26, 2011 at 2:11 AM

Point taken. I will work to further my olfactory education.

galenrox on April 26, 2011 at 2:13 AM

You said that PUMA was attacking birthers.

No I didn’t!

Republicans were attacking the so-called birthers, not PUMA’s.

I proved you wrong and now you’re going to quibble over the date they started doing what you denied they were doing?! You need to dial back the drinks or go to bed. Your cognitive skill are diminishing.

mizflame98 on April 26, 2011 at 2:10 AM

WTF are you talking about?

sharrukin on April 26, 2011 at 2:14 AM

mizflame98 on April 26, 2011 at 1:59 AM

You’re on fire tonight Ma’am.
You do know that I’m not a birther, right?
*smiles*

annoyinglittletwerp on April 26, 2011 at 2:17 AM

And with that, I ask you for the 5th time: of the two hospitals Zero claims to be born in, which is the truth?
Like I said, you’re the birther; not me. You answer that.

You’re the one who claims we have no need for truth. Or adherence to the law. Or to Constitutional eligibility requirements.
I said no such thing. You keep saying I said it.

While we’re at it, can you tell me any of the following (since Zero’s been so unquestioningly transparent and all)?…
I don’t care. I believe he’s eligible to be POTUS. I just don’t think he’s qualified for the job. Besides, the first 3 questions are irrelevant because you don’t need to be married to get knocked up. Also you keep saying FACT as if that’s enough. Unless you have adoption paperwork you can’t prove Lolo adopted him or all the other things you claim. So, instead of asking me to prove your theory is right why don’t you come up with some solid evidence to prove my belief is wrong? Gee, you sure don’t understand how the scientific method works.
Opinionator on April 26, 2011 at 2:02 AM

mizflame98 on April 26, 2011 at 2:19 AM

annoyinglittletwerp on April 26, 2011 at 2:17 AM

Wow. How sad indeed that you would support someone who tries to obfuscate and who has no answers.

mizflame has burned out.

Opinionator on April 26, 2011 at 2:23 AM

sharrukin on April 26, 2011 at 2:14 AM

Put down the bottle and go to bed. I was talking about PUMA and you chime in and say that they were attacking birthers. At no time did you mention Republicans. Go back and read your postings when you decided to put your 2 cents in on my comment (when you sober up of course).

mizflame98 on April 26, 2011 at 2:23 AM

mizflame98 on April 26, 2011 at 1:59 AM

You’re on fire tonight Ma’am.
You do know that I’m not a birther, right?
*smiles*

annoyinglittletwerp on April 26, 2011 at 2:17 AM

LOL! I know. I’m not saying Barry is squeeky clean here. He’s hiding crap. At least his college transcripts, his law cases, what he taught in school, etc. But why go after the complicated stuff to get rid of him when he’s been gift wrapping the tools needed to throw him out?

mizflame98 on April 26, 2011 at 2:25 AM

Where have all the leakers gone?
Long time passing.

Feedie on April 26, 2011 at 2:26 AM

Wow. How sad indeed that you would support someone who tries to obfuscate and who has no answers.

mizflame has burned out.

Opinionator on April 26, 2011 at 2:23 AM

Scientific method sweetie. It’s your job to prove your hypothesis; not mine.

mizflame98 on April 26, 2011 at 2:26 AM

Where have all the leakers gone?
Long time passing.

Feedie on April 26, 2011 at 2:26 AM

You’d think Wikileaks would be all over this. For some reason they just don’t seem to want to give up the goods…if they have any of course. :-)

mizflame98 on April 26, 2011 at 2:28 AM

I believe he’s eligible to be POTUS.
mizflame98 on April 26, 2011 at 2:19 AM

Oh I know you and your payor do! Without your belief, in the face of NO FACTS and NO ANSWERS, what else would you have???

Proofers ask questions that Soros and Zero don’t have answers for. /Oh there are answers to all of these questions. . . and we shall find them. Are you afraid of that?

WE ask the questions you don’t have answers for.

Admit it.

Opinionator on April 26, 2011 at 2:29 AM

LOL! I know. I’m not saying Barry is squeeky clean here. He’s hiding crap. At least his college transcripts, his law cases, what he taught in school, etc. But why go after the complicated stuff to get rid of him when he’s been gift wrapping the tools needed to throw him out?

mizflame98 on April 26, 2011 at 2:25 AM

Wow. Just wow. You sound like Jan or *something*.

Opinionator on April 26, 2011 at 2:31 AM

From a cursory glance into it the Supreme Court in 1898 ruled to adopt the English common law definition of natural born citizen, which didn’t require the parents to be citizens. Did they overturn that at some point?

That’s what you get for just taking a cursory glance.

U.S. v Ark is likely not applicable to Barry’s case. The Supreme Court did not rule that Ark was a natural born citizen. It merely ruled that he was a citizen. Even if Barry’s circumstances at birth were identical to those of Ark, the Court’s ruling would only confer citizenship to Barry. It would not confer natural born citizenship, which is what a Presidential candidate needs in order to be eligible to hold office.

Last,the court misinterpreted and misapplied the 14th Amendment, in ruling Ark a US Citizen, as his parents were “transient aliens” under Chinese “embassy/consular jurisdiction”. Children of transient aliens, of alien public ministers and consuls, are under embassy/consular jurisdiction, and therefore are not US citizens. If a similar case would come before SCOTUS, Ark would likely be overturned.

Fed45 on April 26, 2011 at 2:33 AM

mizflame98 on April 26, 2011 at 2:23 AM

Listen you brainless bimbo, you may not care about the constitution or the law because… “I believe he’s eligible to be POTUS“. I guess thats part of your ‘scientific method‘.

How sweet that you want to take his word for it. Some of us require more than just the word of a proven liar and an operative that came out of the Chicago Democratic machine.

sharrukin on April 26, 2011 at 2:33 AM

Opinionator on April 26, 2011 at 2:29 AM

Scientific method sweetie. You presented the hypothesis now prove it to be true. Chop-chop! You’re wasting time trying to make me do your research.

mizflame98 on April 26, 2011 at 2:34 AM

My hypothesis, miz sweetie, is that you cannot answer this question:

Which hospital of the two in Honolulu Zero claims he was born in correct?

QUESTION your allegiance, and answer this oh so simple question, mizjoke.

‘Night now.

Opinionator on April 26, 2011 at 2:35 AM

sharrukin on April 26, 2011 at 2:33 AM

Put down the bottle and get to work.

mizflame98 on April 26, 2011 at 2:36 AM

At least his college transcripts, his law cases, what he taught in school, etc. But why go after the complicated stuff to get rid of him when he’s been gift wrapping the tools needed to throw him out?

What the hell does any of that have to do with his constitutional eligibility to be President?

Fed45 on April 26, 2011 at 2:37 AM

My hypothesis, miz sweetie, is that you cannot answer this question:

Which hospital of the two in Honolulu Zero claims he was born in correct?

QUESTION your allegiance, and answer this oh so simple question, mizjoke.

‘Night now.

Opinionator on April 26, 2011 at 2:35 AM

What part of I don’t care about the question did you not understand? I’m not doing your research for you.

mizflame98 on April 26, 2011 at 2:39 AM

What the hell does any of that have to do with his constitutional eligibility to be President?

Fed45 on April 26, 2011 at 2:37 AM

Nothing. Did you not catch the part that I said I believe he’s constitutionally eligible? I just don’t think he’s capable of being president. Not exactly for the things I named off; he’s proven that he’s incompetent every day he’s been in the oval office. I just want to see the other stuff out of sheer curiosity.

mizflame98 on April 26, 2011 at 2:43 AM

Birtherism is leading America “down a path of destruction”

If Obama is proved to be ineligible, he is not the Presdient and cannot be impeached. So there’s the messy problem of getting him out of The White House, which may even result in his arrest. I look forward to a dramatic car chase on the Beltway, featuring Obama in a white Ford Bronco.

This will ignite riots in dozens of cities. They will burn down, leaving them in a shambles, but in some cases that will be an improvement.

It’s not just that Obama will not be President any more, he was never the President, so all bills he signed and executive orders he issued will be void. This will create a bit of economic chaos, but only a little more ridiculous than we have now.

But the US Constitution will be preserved.

Emperor Norton on April 26, 2011 at 2:44 AM

You’d think Wikileaks would be all over this. For some reason they just don’t seem to want to give up the goods…if they have any of course. :-)
mizflame98 on April 26, 2011 at 2:28 AM

Yeah, you’d think, but ol’ Assange doesn’t even vote present. There are many institutions hiding many documents. In its day, leaking was so common it became… common. Sure, the libtards took over the relevant institutions, but still. All this makes me think mean old Nixon wasn’t half as scary as the left made out.

Feedie on April 26, 2011 at 2:47 AM

Nothing. Did you not catch the part that I said I believe he’s constitutionally eligible? I just don’t think he’s capable of being president. Not exactly for the things I named off; he’s proven that he’s incompetent every day he’s been in the oval office. I just want to see the other stuff out of sheer curiosity.

Well, he’s clearly not capable of being President. I, however, do not think he was Consitutionally eligible to even run, given that, by definition, he is not a natural born citizen. (has nothing to do with where he was born, but the fact his alleged father was not a citizen).

I worry about the precedent being set if we ignore this issue. Hell, if we simply say “look, if you were born here, regardless of your parents citizenship status, you are a natural born citizen” then that opens us up to some potentially interesting issues.

Fed45 on April 26, 2011 at 2:53 AM

I, however, do not think he was Consitutionally eligible to even run, given that, by definition, he is not a natural born citizen.
Fed45 on April 26, 2011 at 2:53 AM

With a less corrupt establishment, how would the provision be enforced, if say, this was 2007 or 2008?

Feedie on April 26, 2011 at 2:59 AM

“The citizens are the members of the civil society; bound to this society by certain duties, and subject to its authority, they equally participate in its advantages. The natives, or natural-born citizens, are those born in the country, of parents who are citizens. ”

Fed45 on April 26, 2011 at 1:28 AM

I don’t see how it can get any clearer. The Founders all knew where the phrase “natural born” came from (“The Law of Nations”), they all understood what was meant by it, and they all agreed to put it in for eligibility of POTUS. If they meant “citizen” they would’ve written “citizen”.

-Aslan’s Girl

Aslans Girl on April 26, 2011 at 3:03 AM

After perusing this thread… I think Jan Brewer might be on to something… something pretty close to destruction is going on.

petunia on April 26, 2011 at 3:03 AM

Fed45 on April 26, 2011 at 2:53 AM

I’m not saying to ignore it. I’m saying wait until he’s out of office and you’ll have a better chance of finding the info.

mizflame98 on April 26, 2011 at 3:04 AM

What part of I don’t care about the question did you not understand? I’m not doing your research for you.

mizflame98 on April 26, 2011 at 2:39 AM

Yeppers. You still haven’t answered the question I’ve asked 7 times now:

What hospital of the two Zero claimed he was born in in Honolulu is the truth? Hilarious? Not so much.

Yours is the position of hiding the facts, of obfuscating, of defending Zero, and of collecting your Soros check.

How absolutely, frickin’ sad.

Opinionator on April 26, 2011 at 3:05 AM

Fed45 on April 26, 2011 at 2:33 AM

Yeah, it deals with both, establishing that English common law definitions (which base “natural-born” on place of birth) are the means of defining “natural-born citizen”, as it’s not defined in the constitution.
But I must say, you’re little attempts at talking down to me really make your arguments that much more convincing! It just adds that spice, where I was initially like “You know, this guy doesn’t back anything up and the arguments presented don’t make any sense at all…but WOW did you see that little bit of cheap condescension?! Oh man, I am TOTALLY sold!”

galenrox on April 26, 2011 at 3:05 AM

amazingmets on April 26, 2011 at 1:39 AM

In that case, Stanley Ann was too young to confer citizenship to her son. One has to be 19 years of age (and have lived in the US for 14 years), and Stanley Ann was only 18 at the time of O’s birth.

-Aslan’s Girl

Aslans Girl on April 26, 2011 at 3:06 AM

I’m with Jan on this one, sorry. The whole thing is totally ridiculous and makes the entire party look insane. Weren’t any of you alive just 5-13 years ago when this same style kookiness was being perpetrated against the evil Bushitler?? Don’t you remember how bad the left looked doing the exact same thing?

But the reality is this: all you birthers say you want is ‘proof’ and ‘evidence’ and that will resolve it. Oh really, I believe that. Look at it this way: evolution is another ‘theory’ the right hates for no good reason. It has been around for over 200 years, and has a worldwide scientific consensus among experts across all social, religious, political, and geographical backgrounds (minus a vanishingly small number of religiously motivated non-scientists). There are MILLIONs of studies that use or show the utility of evolution. Yet, if there were a poll right here on Hotair…what % would accept it? Far too few sadly. Why bother, there is a much better conspiracy theory out there about a magical sky fairy poofing everything into existence from nothing (name of magical sky fairy dependent on religion).

Not trying to change the subject but just pointing out that one of the main reasons your demand for proof looks so silly to outsiders, is because they know you won’t accept any proof that conflicts with your pre-determined belief on a subject.

chupa on April 26, 2011 at 3:07 AM

Opinionator on April 26, 2011 at 3:05 AM

The point is that asking the question doesn’t prove a positive point. Now clearly you’re trying to get at the point that clearly if he claimed to be born in two different hospitals he was lying about at least one of them. Just say it and move on, why on earth would you bother asking that question 7 times?

galenrox on April 26, 2011 at 3:08 AM

mizflame98 on April 26, 2011 at 1:41 AM

PUMAs have tried to “hide their tracks”? Are you crazy? All the PUMAs I know online are quite vocal in not believing O is natural-born AND the guys at HilBuzz (uh, the name alone is blatant, don’t you think?) are the ones who have come up with the plausible theory that O was adopted by Soetoro and never changed his name back legally. PUMAs are still proud “birthers” in my experience.

-Aslan’s Girl

Aslans Girl on April 26, 2011 at 3:09 AM

mizflame98 on April 26, 2011 at 1:48 AM

You really are new to this topic, aren’t you? Sheesh, I’ve known all about Arthur’s not being an NBC since 11/08 (and would’ve known sooner had I been paying attention); it was a thoroughly discussed issue on Leo Donofrio’s website

http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/

-Aslan’s Girl

Aslans Girl on April 26, 2011 at 3:12 AM

galenrox on April 26, 2011 at 1:56 AM

Yes, you are late to the party — about three or four years late. Anyone who has paid attention to this story has known of the “two US citizen parents born on US soil” definition of “natural-born”. Glad you are catching up now, though :)

-Aslan’s Girl

Aslans Girl on April 26, 2011 at 3:15 AM

this same style kookiness was being perpetrated against the evil Bushitler?? Don’t you remember how bad the left looked doing the exact same thing?

The Left won the Senate and the House and the Presidency by using it. Apparently, kookiness works.

Not trying to change the subject

Of course you are.

There are millions of studies that use or show the utility of evolution. Yet, if there were a poll right here on Hotair . . . what % would accept it?

I accept it as scientific and true, although in your case I don’t think you’ve fully evolved from the monkeys.

Emperor Norton on April 26, 2011 at 3:15 AM

mizflame98 on April 26, 2011 at 1:59 AM

Yep, that Barry has been giving us so much ammunition that he still holds a 41-45% approval rating *and* beats nearly all our potential candidates in polls so far… we’ve been discussing other merits for not re-electing him and he still could win in ’12. We need *more* ammunition and this is one such tool. Not using it makes no sense.

-Aslan’s Girl

Aslans Girl on April 26, 2011 at 3:17 AM

mizflame98 on April 26, 2011 at 2:10 AM

sharrukin said no such thing. I think your reading skills are diminishing.

-Aslan’s Girl

Aslans Girl on April 26, 2011 at 3:20 AM

Opinionator on April 26, 2011 at 3:05 AM

The point is that asking the question doesn’t prove a positive point. Now clearly you’re trying to get at the point that clearly if he claimed to be born in two different hospitals he was lying about at least one of them. Just say it and move on, why on earth would you bother asking that question 7 times?

galenrox on April 26, 2011 at 3:08 AM

Because mizflameout cannot answer the basic question, while at the very same time she deigns to spew ‘birther crap’ in the face of proofers in virtually every post.

That right there is some questionable dissonance.

Mizflame flamed out. Until she can ‘put up’ with regard to the very most basic questions regarding Zero, she needs to ‘shut up’, and quit spewing her “birther crap”.

Which hospital was he born in, again, mizflameout?

Opinionator on April 26, 2011 at 3:24 AM

Aslans Girl on April 26, 2011 at 3:15 AM

I don’t get how you get past Dred Scott:

The first section of the second article of the Constitution uses the language, “a natural-born citizen.” It thus assumes that citizenship may be acquired by birth. Undoubtedly, this language of the Constitution was used in reference to that principle of public law, well understood in this country at the time of the adoption of the Constitution, which referred citizenship to the place of birth.

galenrox on April 26, 2011 at 3:25 AM

Opinionator on April 26, 2011 at 3:24 AM

So you’re asking it because she can’t/won’t answer it? What’s that supposed to prove?

Her point is this: you are making a positive claim – that Obama is not a natural-born citizen of the United States. Her response is not a positive claim, in that she’s not arguing that he is a natural-born citizen, just that you haven’t proven that he isn’t.

So in making a positive statement, the onus is on you to prove the positive statement. This means her inability/unwillingness to answer any question, no matter how reasonable or easy it might be, cannot possibly prove your point, help your point, or advance your argument in any way, shape or form.

Now if, instead, she was making the positive claim “He was born in this country!” and you were taking the more passive “I don’t believe you, prove it” position, then the onus is on her to explain away challenges, but as that doesn’t seem to be the case, the onus falls on you.

galenrox on April 26, 2011 at 3:33 AM

So you’re asking it because she can’t/won’t answer it? What’s that supposed to prove?

galenrox on April 26, 2011 at 3:33 AM</blockquote

That she has no answers to my most basic question; hence, her claims about “birther crap” are absofulucking BOGUS.

Soros has her paycheck, , , due on Friday.

Opinionator on April 26, 2011 at 3:43 AM

Her response is not a positive claim, in that she’s not arguing that he is a natural-born citizen, just that you haven’t proven that he isn’t.

She is making positive claims that he is eligible for the presidency and it is based on nothing but her ‘belief’.

I believe he’s eligible to be POTUS.

That is a positive claim.

So in making a positive statement, the onus is on you to prove the positive statement.

galenrox on April 26, 2011 at 3:33 AM

No the onus is on Obama to prove.

sharrukin on April 26, 2011 at 3:44 AM

Good night, All…….

Opinionator on April 26, 2011 at 3:49 AM

I don’t get how you get past Dred Scott

For some reason, you are quoting from a dissenting opinion in the Dred Scott case by Justice Benjamin Curtis.

The first section of the second article of the Constitution uses the language, “a natural-born citizen.” It thus assumes that citizenship may be acquired by birth

No, a “natural born Citizen” was put there in the Constitution as a job requirement for President, while Congressman and Senators could just be a “citizen.” The intent, I think, was not to say that citizenship was acquired only by birth. That idea would not become law until the 14th Amendment (1868), and even then it was qualified by being born in the US “and subject to the jurisdiction thereof.”

Undoubtedly, this language of the Constitution was used in reference to that principle of public law, well understood in this country at the time of the adoption of the Constitution, which referred citizenship to the place of birth.

Place of birth was the first thing to look at to determine who was a citizen, but it did not become the only thing until US v. Wong Kim Ark (1898). Still, a “natural born Citizen” under II, i, 5 is something else, and was understood to be something different throughout the 19th century. You could have asked President Arthur about that.

Emperor Norton on April 26, 2011 at 3:49 AM

When Brewer vetoed the bill, I didn’t like her reasons, because she said the bill was kooky in its requests – when it wasn’t kooky at all.

It merely gave a long list of acceptable documents that the candidates could choose from to prove eligibility, including baptismal/circumcision records.

I felt that Brewer’s explanation was disingenuous and evasive.

But this proves to me that she had an agenda, and vetoed the bill NOT on its merits, but for other reasons.

One reason to remember is that she had a conflict of interest because the Arizona Secretary of State was the official that had accepted Obama’s eligibility in 2008.

That Secretary of State was Jan Brewer.

Something stinks. I am not happy with Gov. Brewer because she sidestepped an unavoidable issue.

Let’s hope Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal has the stones to poke 0bama right back in the eye. Payback’s a bitch.

cane_loader on April 26, 2011 at 3:59 AM

My take on her comment:
There is a growing number of top officials and others who realize now that Obama has a serious problem with his birth certificate (and other things in his background).
What if it became known that Obama committed fraud? Enough so that he should immediately resign his post. Or a huge Congressional investigation.
Isn’t that the leading America “down a path of destruction” what she is now alluding to? Better that Obama serve his one term than rip the US apart by the investigation and resignation or impeachment of Obama.

albill on April 26, 2011 at 5:41 AM

albill on April 26, 2011 at 5:41 AM

I am thinking along those same lines. But who is going to go tell barry that it is time to do an LBJ and not run for a 2nd term?

lukespapa on April 26, 2011 at 6:06 AM

I’m ignoring the Native Born Citizen issue, and here’s why…

We can beat this turkey on the merits. Every time we’re talking about the Birth Certificate, we should be talking about deficits, or energy production, or foreign policy disasters or Obamacare. It is my suspicion that this issue is being left out there by President Obama specifically to disatract us.

But, if there is something to it all, there are more than enough people digging into it to produce a result without adding my voice to the chorous.

But this is a “Silver Bullet” kind of thing. A magical solution that will make Barack Obama just go away. But we have everything we need to defeat this guy right in our hands already. Why are we looking around for a Silver Bullet. Let’s just beat him.

Haiku Guy on April 26, 2011 at 6:19 AM

But this is a “Silver Bullet” kind of thing. A magical solution that will make Barack Obama just go away. But we have everything we need to defeat this guy right in our hands already. Why are we looking around for a Silver Bullet. Let’s just beat him.

Haiku Guy on April 26, 2011 at 6:19 AM

Because once a delusion is “fixed” there’s little you can do.

clnurnberg on April 26, 2011 at 7:20 AM

Yours is the position of hiding the facts, of obfuscating, of defending Zero, and of collecting your Soros check.

How absolutely, frickin’ sad.

Opinionator on April 26, 2011 at 3:05 AM

OK, now that’s funny. I have no idea how you got that I’m hiding facts when I am not doing your detective work. If you think I’m defending Barry than you must be taking a few swigs from the bottle yourself. Also I’d be living far better than in a rental in the middle of Central Texas if I was collecting a Soros check. You’re funny.

mizflame98 on April 26, 2011 at 7:23 AM

-Aslan’s Girl

Aslans Girl on April 26, 2011 at 3:09 AM

Whatever. I really don’t care personally. And as for being new to a topic, it’s not about being new to birtherism; it’s just that I give less than a damn about it.

mizflame98 on April 26, 2011 at 7:33 AM

But this is a “Silver Bullet” kind of thing. A magical solution that will make Barack Obama just go away. But we have everything we need to defeat this guy right in our hands already. Why are we looking around for a Silver Bullet. Let’s just beat him.

For the same reason we talk about all of

deficits, or energy production, or foreign policy disasters or Obamacare

There is no reason to give him a pass on anything. The eligibility issue resonates with those who make up their own minds based on evidence. The issue isn’t going away. It is becoming more prominent. Those who want to sweep the issue under the rug – or are afraid of the truth – are becoming a minority.

Basilsbest on April 26, 2011 at 7:34 AM

Whatever. I really don’t care personally. And as for being new to a topic, it’s not about being new to birtherism; it’s just that I give less than a damn about it.mizflame98 on April 26, 2011 at 7:33 AM

After you’ve posted dozens of comments on the issue, you now claim not to care. The scientific method proves you to be a liar.

Basilsbest on April 26, 2011 at 7:38 AM

Some of us are not so foolish as to believe that the dems themselves would have run an ineligible man and make the party look incompetant. A “proofer” law is fine IMO, if only to silence some of the nuts, others will rage on about forgeries and such once the delusion gets a hold of them.

This really is a lot like the 9/11 truthers, the reality that the nation voted for someone so worthless, that the citizenry was so easily bamboozled, is too hard to accept that another explanation is sought. Much like the reality that other nations were sponsoring terrorists and want to kill us was hard to accept, so deluded minds chose a gov’t conspiracy, spearheaded by Bush, rather than accept the reality that the war by terror had reached our shores at last. We could get rid of Bush and the problem would vanish. Now, we can just make Obama ineligible and the gullible citizenry and the class warfare crowd who truly want to make this country socialist will just “heal”.

This is the country that collected babies as if they were gold and who truly cares about DWTS and American Idol. The fact that they chose slickly packaged trash should not surprise one single person. The welfare ideology and the hatred of achievers, even by achievers themselves, is real. The fight will be hard and will go on without Obama in the White House, just as the jihadis continue after Bush.

Another, equally delusional, example is the “GOP hates Obama because they are racists”. It certainly can’t be because of the economy, the endless string of communist thinking czars, or his general anti-American global view (held my millions of educated leftist natural-born Americans, btw)…it is his race alone. Cokie Roberts mouthed off on this the other day.

Let’s stop with the magical, conspiracy theories and do the work of unseating this man for his policies. All these cries of racism v ineligibility only distract the country from what’s happening around us and will affect us for years to come.

clnurnberg on April 26, 2011 at 7:40 AM

Because once a delusion is “fixed” there’s little you can do.

clnurnberg on April 26, 2011 at 7:20 AM

Medication helps and maybe even cutting back on the booze.

mizflame98 on April 26, 2011 at 7:48 AM

After you’ve posted dozens of comments on the issue, you now claim not to care. The scientific method proves you to be a liar.

Basilsbest on April 26, 2011 at 7:38 AM

I always claimed to not care. I’m just waiting for you guys to use scientific method to prove your hypothesis instead of calling people who don’t agree with you names. Get to work being the gumshoe detective you think you are. Until you can come up with some proof, you all need to settle down.

mizflame98 on April 26, 2011 at 7:51 AM

Medication helps and maybe even cutting back on the booze.

mizflame98 on April 26, 2011 at 7:48 AM

Oddly some delusions do not respond to medication. There must be a part of the brain that remains untouched by even high doses of neuroleptics. Trutherism and Birtherism seem to fall in this category. Yes there are some who thoughtfully choose these views for political expediency but most of the true believers just have a chemical problem that we can’t fix with evidence or medication.

clnurnberg on April 26, 2011 at 7:55 AM

Let’s stop with the magical, conspiracy theories and do the work of unseating this man for his policies. All these cries of racism v ineligibility only distract the country from what’s happening around us and will affect us for years to come.

clnurnberg on April 26, 2011 at 7:40 AM

APPLAUSE.

mizflame98 on April 26, 2011 at 7:56 AM

APPLAUSE.

mizflame98 on April 26, 2011 at 7:56 AM

LOL. But I still say that some people’s limbic systems are in charge of their higher functions. Have a great day, Mizflame98

clnurnberg on April 26, 2011 at 8:00 AM

clnurnberg on April 26, 2011 at 7:55 AM

That’s true. Seriously, I don’t think this is a mental illness but a true obsession for some. Yeah, it sound wacky but so long as someone doesn’t act on their theories with a high powered sniper rifle then let them have their fun. I can sort of see where the truthers and birthers come from because at one time I bought off on the Oliver Stone version of the JFK assassination. The reason why I no longer is because my husband when we were dating asked one simple question that I couldn’t answer. What if Oswald got off a lucky shot? Kind of change the way one sees things when a simple question that has never been pondered is thrown in the mix. That’s the problem. Those who believe this stuff don’t wish to ponder the simple question that might alter their way of thinking.

mizflame98 on April 26, 2011 at 8:02 AM

Chris of Rights

very good, your facts without calling names. i agree its the media, but who on the republican side is stoking the issue besides Trump and the internet? No one that I see.

kara26 on April 26, 2011 at 8:06 AM

This has been fun and all, but this insomnia is really getting on my nerves. I’m going to take something to make me go to sleep. Take care folks and have fun.

mizflame98 on April 26, 2011 at 8:07 AM

Yawn.

http://www.chrisofrights.com/2011/04/birtherism.html

Chris of Rights on April 26, 2011 at 7:57 AM

Yawn is right. Could you be any more groupthink about this?

fossten on April 26, 2011 at 8:09 AM

mizflame98 on April 26, 2011 at 7:33 AM

For a topic you don’t give a damn about, you sure have posted many, many times in this very thread. The least you could do is be informed about the issue before spouting off, no?

-Aslan’s Girl

Aslans Girl on April 26, 2011 at 8:25 AM

I don’t want a president who feels he needs to hide his past from me, regardless of where he was born.

John Deaux on April 26, 2011 at 8:25 AM

The least you could do is be informed about the issue before spouting off, no?

-Aslan’s Girl

Aslans Girl on April 26, 2011 at 8:25 AM

Just because people do not waste their time poring over increasingly bizarre “evidence” about Obama does not make them uninformed. I dismiss the 9/11 truthers without seeing Jesse Ventura’s garbage, that does not make me uninformed.

This argument is a loser, stick with issues related arguments, even if selling them will be hard and statists will persist.

clnurnberg on April 26, 2011 at 8:30 AM

mizflame98 on April 26, 2011 at 8:02 AM

I’m no fan of Stone and really have no idea what he himself had to say about the JFK assassination, but I have watched documentaries about it and seen the film that was finally released several years ago of the actual shooting: how do you explain the fact that there were multiple gunshots coming from different directions? Did Oswald not only “get off one lucky shot” but also have a magical gun that can shoot two different directions at the same time? JFK was hit front and back.

-Aslan’s Girl

Aslans Girl on April 26, 2011 at 8:31 AM

Leading? No.
Symptom of? Yes.

Count to 10 on April 26, 2011 at 8:35 AM

Obviously, Brewer is showing the pressure of being maligned, attacked and sued by the Left. She’s trying to take cover in the Progressive Comfort of the GOP and the Threatening Left, that’s what I think.

Disappointed in her.

Lourdes on April 26, 2011 at 8:36 AM

mizflame98 on April 26, 2011 at 8:02 AM

I’m no fan of Stone and really have no idea what he himself had to say about the JFK assassination, but I have watched documentaries about it and seen the film that was finally released several years ago of the actual shooting: how do you explain the fact that there were multiple gunshots coming from different directions? Did Oswald not only “get off one lucky shot” but also have a magical gun that can shoot two different directions at the same time? JFK was hit front and back.

-Aslan’s Girl

Aslans Girl on April 26, 2011 at 8:31 AM

JFK was shot two times from the back. There were three shots fired at him, two of which struck him, from the back.

Stone’s film is fantasy.

Lourdes on April 26, 2011 at 8:37 AM

Lourdes, I’ve never seen Stone’s film, only have watched documentaries on the actual assassination and the actual film of the shooting (home movie). I recall that there was a shot from the front that threw JFK’s head backward, after having been shot from the front. I don’t want to watch the home movie again as it is so horrifying, so I’m going by having watched it a few times when it was released, but I remember vividly seeing his head thrown backward.

-Aslan’s Girl

Aslans Girl on April 26, 2011 at 8:43 AM

I recall that there was a shot from the front that threw JFK’s head backward, after having been shot from the frontback

Aslans Girl on April 26, 2011 at 8:44 AM

I no more believe Oswald was a lone shooter than I do that Muslim terrorists are “lone wolves”. Oswald as we know was Commie backed and it wouldn’t surprise me that there is a LOT we don’t know yet about the assassination.

-Aslan’s Girl

Aslans Girl on April 26, 2011 at 8:45 AM

Clearly Scalia, Roberts and Alito are in on this deception too….pinky and the brain, brain, brain, brain…..all a huge clever attempt at all levels of government to undermine the Constitution and take over the WORLD!

MizFlame, why oh why did you have to interject JFK conspiracies into this and expose the illness of otherwise rational conservatives?

One despairs.

clnurnberg on April 26, 2011 at 9:08 AM

Until someone steps forward with the real BC, then he’s the president and we’re stuck with him. All this talk about it is clouding the real issues that affect us all. Jobs, economy, debt, taxes, and energy should be forefront on all our minds. The Donald is not helping here.

Kissmygrits on April 26, 2011 at 9:11 AM

Where exactly does that leave her on the left’s spectrum of GOP “racism”?

Um, she’s a Republican.

Therefore, KKK.

Good Lt on April 26, 2011 at 9:11 AM

Let’s stop with the magical, conspiracy theories and do the work of unseating this man for his policies. All these cries of racism v ineligibility only distract the country from what’s happening around us and will affect us for years to come.

clnurnberg on April 26, 2011 at 7:40 AM

How about we stop with the very FIRST conspiracy theory? You know, the one that says there IS a conspiracy theory? What’s wrong with the explanation of One guy lying?
I’ve said from the begining, Obama alone knows he’s ineligible, but he just doesn’t care.
Why assert a conspiracy? Oh, I know! To mock and malign the people pointing out that he’s ineligible!

Stop with the “Conspiracy Theory.”

DiogenesLamp on April 26, 2011 at 9:41 AM

Yawn.

http://www.chrisofrights.com/2011/04/birtherism.html

Chris of Rights on April 26, 2011 at 7:57 AM

Started reading your commentary. When I got to the point where you had already made up your mind I quit reading.

Yawn is right.

DiogenesLamp on April 26, 2011 at 9:44 AM

I don’t want a president who feels he needs to hide his past from me, regardless of where he was born.

John Deaux on April 26, 2011 at 8:25 AM

I have no difficulty in understanding why he would want to. What never made sense to me is why so many people thought it was okay to let him get away with it.

DiogenesLamp on April 26, 2011 at 9:46 AM

Lourdes, I’ve never seen Stone’s film, only have watched documentaries on the actual assassination and the actual film of the shooting (home movie). I recall that there was a shot from the front that threw JFK’s head backward, after having been shot from the front. I don’t want to watch the home movie again as it is so horrifying, so I’m going by having watched it a few times when it was released, but I remember vividly seeing his head thrown backward.

-Aslan’s Girl

Aslans Girl on April 26, 2011 at 8:43 AM

What caused JFK’s head to lurch backward was a spasm from being shot in the head. Many People familiar with deaths in combat have seen this sort of spasm from people shot in the head. It is unremarkable.

DiogenesLamp on April 26, 2011 at 9:51 AM

This argument is a loser, stick with issues related arguments, even if selling them will be hard and statists will persist.

If we ignore it now, we’ll be more likely to ignore it in the future. At that point the natural born citizen clause will have no meaning, or mean whatever the public wants it to mean.

Fed45 on April 26, 2011 at 9:53 AM

Until someone steps forward with the real BC, then he’s the president and we’re stuck with him. All this talk about it is clouding the real issues that affect us all. Jobs, economy, debt, taxes, and energy should be forefront on all our minds. The Donald is not helping here.

Kissmygrits on April 26, 2011 at 9:11 AM

Had individual states performed appropriate “due diligence” we might not now be dealing with the issues you mentioned. In order to correct a problem, you must first understand what CAUSED the problem.

DiogenesLamp on April 26, 2011 at 9:55 AM

Stop with the “Conspiracy Theory.”

DiogenesLamp on April 26, 2011 at 9:41 AM

Nobody can be trusted to expose the “lies”, not Scalia, not Roberts, not the Clintons, not Fox news, nobody….except you and a handful of true patriots of the highest caliber. They are all in on the game to hide the truth of Obama’s birth….it started years ago, even before The One was born.
“When the child is born grandma must go plant the birth announcement in the paper..” I don’t believe Obama was even born on the planet, this was all concocted by space aliens of malicious intent.

I repeat, no one can be trusted except the true patriots.

clnurnberg on April 26, 2011 at 9:58 AM

Yawn.

http://www.chrisofrights.com/2011/04/birtherism.html

Chris of Rights on April 26, 2011 at 7:57 AM

First, I give little credence to any that references wikipedia to establish legal definitions. You would do better to cite specific case law. Second, your blog post deals primarily with citizenship, but the proceeds to use the terms citizen and “natural born citizen” almost interchangeably. Nothing could be more innacurate

Fed45 on April 26, 2011 at 10:00 AM

Um, she’s a Republican.

Therefore, KKK.

Good Lt on April 26, 2011 at 9:11 AM

Uh dude, I hate to have to keep continuing your education, but the KKK is a DEMOCRAT organization. It was founded by Nathan Bedford Forest, who was a Delegate to the Democrat National convention in 1868.

While we’re on the Subject, Slavery, Jim Crow, and pretty much all the civil rights abuses were perpetrated by Democrats. Let me tell you about the first Democrat President. Andrew Jackson. He stole the lands in Georgia and surrounding areas from the five Civilized tribes, and forced them to march to Oklahoma. Thousands died along the way.(They call it the “Trail of tears.” Their lands were given to white settlers who eventually turned them into Slave plantations. He *IS* the founder of the current DNC (Democratic National Committee) and his legacy of evil still lingers to this day.

You should stop saying Ignorant Sh*t. On the other hand, you probably can’t help it.

DiogenesLamp on April 26, 2011 at 10:03 AM

Until someone steps forward with the real BC, then he’s the president and we’re stuck with him

The real BC won’t settle it. Barry can’t get past the fact his alleged father was not a US citizen. That still leaves doubt as to his “natural born citizen” status.

Fed45 on April 26, 2011 at 10:04 AM

If we ignore it now, we’ll be more likely to ignore it in the future. At that point the natural born citizen clause will have no meaning, or mean whatever the public wants it to mean.

Fed45 on April 26, 2011 at 9:53 AM

Judging by the reaction of the ignorant public, we are already there. It was a good nation while it lasted.

DiogenesLamp on April 26, 2011 at 10:04 AM

Nobody can be trusted to expose the “lies”, not Scalia, not Roberts, not the Clintons, not Fox news, nobody….except you and a handful of true patriots of the highest caliber. They are all in on the game to hide the truth of Obama’s birth….it started years ago, even before The One was born.
“When the child is born grandma must go plant the birth announcement in the paper..” I don’t believe Obama was even born on the planet, this was all concocted by space aliens of malicious intent.

I repeat, no one can be trusted except the true patriots.

clnurnberg on April 26, 2011 at 9:58 AM

Ah, there’s that mockery again. You are a brilliant debater! You are certainly a match for any kindergarten level discussion.

Here is my blunt summation. Until he presents some Proof, the question of his eligibility is unproven.

A cloud of doubt and suspicion hangs over him.

DiogenesLamp on April 26, 2011 at 10:08 AM

But I must say, you’re little attempts at talking down to me really make your arguments that much more convincing! It just adds that spice, where I was initially like “You know, this guy doesn’t back anything up and the arguments presented don’t make any sense at all…but WOW did you see that little bit of cheap condescension?! Oh man, I am TOTALLY sold!”

Well, when one uses phrases like “I’ve never heard that before”, and “a cursory glance at”, and appears to not do even the most basic research to support their position, I have to question their abilities to make sound arguments

Fed45 on April 26, 2011 at 10:09 AM

First, I give little credence to any that references wikipedia to establish legal definitions. You would do better to cite specific case law. Second, your blog post deals primarily with citizenship, but the proceeds to use the terms citizen and “natural born citizen” almost interchangeably. Nothing could be more innacurate

Fed45 on April 26, 2011 at 10:00 AM

A lot of people seem to think this should be argued as case law, and the most popular case which they cite (Wong Kim Ark) wasn’t dealing with Article II eligibility, and got it wrong anyway.

I continuously point out that this issue should be argued from “First principles” and not based on what other people’s opinions were regarding founders intent. Go directly to the founders and DISCERN their intent without the faulty filter of other people’s opinions.

DiogenesLamp on April 26, 2011 at 10:11 AM

Let’s stop with the magical, conspiracy theories and do the work of unseating this man for his policies. All these cries of racism v ineligibility only distract the country from what’s happening around us and will affect us for years to come.

clnurnberg on April 26, 2011 at 7:40 AM

APPLAUSE.

mizflame98 on April 26, 2011 at 7:56 AM

I might add:BRAVO!

annoyinglittletwerp on April 26, 2011 at 10:12 AM

Jan Brewer: Birtherism is leading America “down a path of destruction”

And Banksterism at her Capitol is leading Arizona down a path of destruction.

Which is worse, Jan? Birthers or Bankstas?

Until the swamp is drained and the financial fraud is prosecuted, there will be no economic recovery in Arizona, or anywhere.

Rae on April 26, 2011 at 10:13 AM

Judging by the reaction of the ignorant public, we are already there. It was a good nation while it lasted.

DiogenesLamp on April 26, 2011 at 10:04 AM

Except if Jindal decides to run. Or any other Republican with a similar pedigree. Then the press will be all over it

(And,no, Jindal is not a natural born citizen, so he is disqualified)

Fed45 on April 26, 2011 at 10:13 AM

I am neither a racist nor a birther. I am a human being. It is human nature to seek the secret. The Prez has spent much time and money to conceal his records. I simply ask why? So I am either a whyist, or a whyther…I haven’t decided yet.

jakev on April 26, 2011 at 10:16 AM

The real BC won’t settle it. Barry can’t get past the fact his alleged father was not a US citizen. That still leaves doubt as to his “natural born citizen” status.

Fed45 on April 26, 2011 at 10:04 AM

Seeing his birth certificate is only the first step in determining whether he is eligible or not. It may very well prove he actually WAS born in Hawaii to an American father. From everything i’ve read on the subject, it appears more likely to me that Barack Obama sr. is NOT really his father. (The reason he doesn’t care about his half brother living in squalor in Kenya is because he knows that it really isn’t his brother.)

If the birth certificate is ambiguous about him actually being born IN Hawaii, (Such as an “At home birth” filing.) it’s probably game over for him. Most people misunderstand the 14th amendment as granting birth by being born on the soil. If he isn’t even born on the soil, the vast majority of Americans are going to regard him as illegitimate.

DiogenesLamp on April 26, 2011 at 10:16 AM

The Donald is not helping here.

Kissmygrits on April 26, 2011 at 9:11 AM

I disagree that the Donald is not helping. Having the press do a mad scramble to try and prove Obama DOESN’T need to show a LFBC just reinforces the idea that Obama won’t.

Does having the fact Obama refuses to show it help Obama? I don’t see how. I can’t think of anyone who feels sympathy for Obama that doesn’t already on this issue. Sorry, but the public may be tired of this but they will eventually blame OBAMA as the only one who can make it go away for not doing so. Think he can refuse these questions for months? Think the public wants to entrust a guy who let’s this swim around him and does nothing as their effective leader of the future? Don’t bet on it. What is happening is Obama is taking a HIT as a President the country we can be proud of or needs. Ask yourself why the mad scramble by the MSM to put it to bed? They know this hurts his re-election.

Trump’s reputation suffering is meaningless and the so called “damage” from an unelected, late-minute Republican is neglible to what he is doing to Obama eventually.

Conan on April 26, 2011 at 10:17 AM

I believe he’s eligible to be POTUS.
mizflame98 on April 26, 2011 at 2:19 AM

Oh I know you and your payor do! Without your belief, in the face of NO FACTS and NO ANSWERS, what else would you have???

She told you – it’s an article of her faith. I have no faith. I live in the harsh real world of facts and we have few.

Documents issued to illegals are invalid and fraudulent as proof of citizenship.

Brewer is a moron. McCain was COMPELLED to produce his birth records in the Senate prior to his run for president, as should all candidates for that office.

dogsoldier on April 26, 2011 at 10:18 AM

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