Trump and the art of the political deal

posted at 5:00 pm on April 18, 2011 by Jazz Shaw

It’s becoming increasingly amusing to watch the chattering class continue to struggle with the question, What’s Donald Trump Really After? I’m no more of a mind reader than the rest of them, but I think The Donald has given us more than a few clues along the way. Just last week I sat down with Rick Moran on his show and discussed this in detail. If the rest of the GOP field really wanted to be ready for Trump and to know how to handle his sudden rise to political prominence, they really needed to look no further than his book, The Art of the Deal, and a few lectures of his which I attended in his pre-political incarnations. He’s approaching this in the exact same fashion he takes on any business challenge in a hostile environment.

  1. Identify a niche market to exploit
  2. Drive a wedge between you and your competitors
  3. Use that wedge to open a space allowing the customers to come to you

First he identifies the niche market to exploit: Birthers. And lest we forget the most important sector here, the birther curious. Are there a majority of Americans who fall into these categories? Obviously not. But that’s not the game being played right now. Trump doesn’t need to win over half the voters in the country yet. He doesn’t even need to win over half the Republicans. It’s a crowded field at this stage and all you need to do is ring up some numbers above 20% with likely primary voters and you’re either in first place or close to it. And even the latest polls during the time period Donald was considering a run show that you can beat that number easily with only this niche market.

Second, he uses that niche advantage to drive a wedge between him and his competitors. In this case his “competitors” are the rest of the serious contenders for the 2012 nomination. And they have almost uniformly run away from the birther issue like pigs from the gun because they don’t want to come across as, well… crazy. Not The Donald. He embraces it. And for a big enough slice of the primary electoral pie chart, he’s suddenly the only game in town.

Finally, he uses that wedge to create a space for the customers to come to him. The “customers,” of course, are the likely GOP primary voters. So how well has this worked? Yet another poll came out this week showing Trump moving into the lead.

This is classic Trump! Talk about telegraphing your punches… it’s The Art of the Deal line for line. So does this mean that The Donald is actually running? The magic 8-Ball says, “Ask again later.” I remain firmly convinced that Trump’s plan all along was for this to be a massive stunt. He can let it be known that the final episode of The Apprentice will have some clues and that immediately following the airing of the show – when he can “legally” campaign – there will be an announcement. At that time he could simply apologize to his followers, proclaiming that the Beltway system is “too broken” for even him to fix and bow out after scoring Superbowl level numbers for his reality show and vastly boosting his international image for upcoming deals. And he may still do just that.

But maybe not.

Trump can read a poll as well as anyone else. It’s looking more and more like he might actually be able to pull this off. And knowing what we know of his personality and appetite, if there is that big of a brass ring hanging apparently within range of his grasp, would Donald John Trump Sr. be able to pass it by? If he thinks he can win he may very well abandon the stunt and actually go for it.

Now, the more sane among you are, at this point, probably asking the obvious question. “That’s all well and good, to take the birther route to the GOP nomination, but what about the general election where the middle will tend to eschew the crazy candidates?”

Good question, but there’s already an answer.

If you backtrack through the hyperbolic media coverage of Trump’s “candidacy” you will note one important fact. Not once has The Donald actually stated that Obama was not a natural born citizen, nor that he was born in Kenya, nor that he wasn’t qualified to be president. He’s just said that he recently found the question “interesting” and that he had people on the job “investigating” it. He never said that Obama had “pulled off the greatest scam in American history.” He said that if this were true then it would be the greatest scam ever.

Hence, once he nails down the nomination, he waits a respectable few days, calls back his “investigators” from the Honolulu Hilton, and sadly announces to the nation that there were no conclusive results and that we need to assume that Barack Obama was qualified to take office. This is followed by an immediate 90 degree pivot and he’s on to talking about what a terrible job Obama has done and why he shouldn’t be given a second term.

Should any reporters or debate moderators bring up the uncomfortable topic of all the birther talk during the primary, the answer is baked into the cake. He simply informs them that it was a question worth digging into and at least he was willing to do the digging the media would not do and, for that matter, why does Donald Trump have to do your job for you?

It’s genius. Pure and simple.

It’s The Art of the Deal all over again folks. And thus far, it’s showing that The Donald isn’t nearly as dumb or as much of a clown as most of the media and his establishment GOP opponents would like to have us believe he is. Hang on to your hats. Donald Trump just may BS and waltz his way into being the next president. Sound crazy? Think back for a moment to that scene from Back to the Future when Doc Brown was informed that the President of the United States was the star of Bedtime for Bonzo.

Pretty crazy, huh?

This post was promoted from GreenRoom to HotAir.com.
To see the comments on the original post, look here.


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Sound crazy? Think back for a moment to that scene from Back to the Future when Doc Brown was informed that the President of the United States was the star of Bedtime for Bonzo.

Pretty crazy, huh?

Heh, I laughed out loud.

Patrick Ishmael on April 18, 2011 at 5:08 PM

Interesting read, Jazz. You may be onto something. Time will tell.

Kataklysmic on April 18, 2011 at 5:08 PM

Should any reporters or debate moderators bring up the uncomfortable topic of all the birther talk during the primary, the answer is baked into the cake. He simply informs them that it was a question worth digging into and at least he was willing to do the digging the media would not do and, for that matter, why does Donald Trump have to do your job for you?

This is what I’ve been saying. The MSM’s choice will be the response above, or avoiding the question completely. In either case, the picture of a lapdog media helping a largely unknown candidate cover his tracks will be obvious — and people’s curiosity will be piqued.

Rational Thought on April 18, 2011 at 5:09 PM

But but but…I thought Trump was a pawn of the NBC/GE/Disney/Soros Liberal Industrial Complex!

/Trumpers

fossten on April 18, 2011 at 5:10 PM

Good Analysis.

I think he is running too. Jim Geraghty over at NRO had a piece that showed Trump was toying with the idea of running for president way back in 1988.

Norwegian on April 18, 2011 at 5:13 PM

You can’t bait and switch an electoral plurality with an issue like birtherism. Birthers hate Obama and his media protectors but the vast majority of them aren’t single issue obsessives who will let Trump lead them by their noses wherever he wants to go.

Seth Halpern on April 18, 2011 at 5:15 PM

A liberal claiming to be a Republican analyzing the motives of a liberal claiming to be a Republican.

misterpeasea on April 18, 2011 at 5:15 PM

A liberal claiming to be a Republican analyzing the motives of a liberal claiming to be a Republican.

misterpeasea on April 18, 2011 at 5:15 PM

+1

Knucklehead on April 18, 2011 at 5:18 PM

misterpeasea on April 18, 2011 at 5:15 PM

;)

Fallon on April 18, 2011 at 5:19 PM

Do people really think Trumps a clown or stupid?

Anyways, Reagan was in politics for a very long time before he became President. And while he was also a registered Democrat, he was never “liberal” as we know them today. Trump, not so much.

Anyway, I hope he stays in for a while just because I want him to finally call Obama a punk. You can call the Donald a lot of things, but calling him a racist won’t stick. So he can call Obama what he is and get away with it.

Aquateen Hungerforce on April 18, 2011 at 5:25 PM

Trump is dangerous for the USoA.

davidk on April 18, 2011 at 5:26 PM

So just to be clear:

I won’t be reading this article by Jazz, based on having wasted far too much time reading previous work by him and having come away – to paraphrase that great Billy Madison clip – dumber from it.

Having no knowledge of the subject material however, doesn’t stop me from making a comment; not unlike Jazz.

The difference between me and Jazz being I can pull off this feat in far fewer words.

krakatoa on April 18, 2011 at 5:29 PM

Pretty crazy, huh?

Crazier that the stuff Obama is getting away with?

Lawrence on April 18, 2011 at 5:29 PM

A huge number of people think Donald Trump started his career with The Apprentice – and I am not kidding. Some HotAir members believe this.

It’s a wondrous world we live in.

jake-the-goose on April 18, 2011 at 5:30 PM

If he thinks he can win he may very well abandon the stunt and actually go for it.

That’s what I’m worried about…

repvoter on April 18, 2011 at 5:34 PM

Donald Trump just may BS and waltz his way into being the next president.

Obama did.

Anyone else should have a much easier time.

It’s a wondrous world we live in.

jake-the-goose on April 18, 2011 at 5:30 PM

It’s ‘enchanting’ and devastating. The fools deserve their leaders. Those who vote for Obama, being fooled for a second round, deserve his destruction, fully, along with that of their progeny.

Schadenfreude on April 18, 2011 at 5:37 PM

Win, lose or draw, we’re sick and effing tired of people telling us who we like and should vote for. Shut up Karl and the rest of you too!!!

Mr. Grump on April 18, 2011 at 5:39 PM

Having no knowledge of the subject material however, doesn’t stop me from making a comment; not unlike Jazz.

The difference between me and Jazz being I can pull off this feat in far fewer words.

krakatoa on April 18, 2011 at 5:29 PM

You didn’t miss much.

sharrukin on April 18, 2011 at 5:39 PM

man you rino lovers would fall for anything won’t you.

It doesn’t matter to me. trump is better than Mitt which is whom he is stealing votes from. The smart ones have already picked Palin.

And he will flame out.

trump does show that B.T was correct. There is a sucker born every minute.

unseen on April 18, 2011 at 5:39 PM

So explained to me again how a reality Tv star has enough gravitas for the job. Or is that only Male reality tv stars?

unseen on April 18, 2011 at 5:41 PM

You are missing an important angle. There is a political party that knows it is likely to lose the senate in the next election, and unlikely to retake the house. This party has some pretty deep pockets, and would be generous to anyone who could help them at least hold the white house.

Vashta.Nerada on April 18, 2011 at 5:43 PM

It doesn’t matter to me. trump is better than Mitt which is whom he is stealing votes from. The smart ones have already picked Palin.

unseen on April 18, 2011 at 5:39 PM

Trump is giving Obama a black eye and I like that. He isn’t any worse than the idiots the GOP are pushing and that will remain true until Palin declares.

I intend to enjoy the show.

sharrukin on April 18, 2011 at 5:43 PM

It doesn’t matter to me. trump is better than Mitt which is whom he is stealing votes from. The smart ones have already picked Palin.

And he will flame out.

unseen on April 18, 2011 at 5:39 PM

+1

Kataklysmic on April 18, 2011 at 5:49 PM

GOD! What did I do with my “Easy” button?

44Magnum on April 18, 2011 at 5:53 PM

It might be worth risking his win just to see what his networth really is.

I think Trump is lots of things but I don’t have the impression that he lies. So he says he is really really rich… George Soros rich? He said richer than Romney… but is he on the same level as Gates? You would think we would know if he was.

I honestly don’t want him to be President… but I am drawn to every story about him. He has something.

You would think a guy this rich would get hair plugs.

petunia on April 18, 2011 at 5:55 PM

Oh yeah… I am “birther curious”.

I don’t believe that Obama was born anywhere but Hawaii… but his reaction to the request he prove it is simply inexplicable! And that makes me curious about everything.

petunia on April 18, 2011 at 5:58 PM

when buy Danish declares for Trump I will say his work is done.

unseen on April 18, 2011 at 5:59 PM

Sound crazy? Think back for a moment to that scene from Back to the Future when Doc Brown was informed that the President of the United States was the star of Bedtime for Bonzo.

Oh, okay. I’ll go you one better: About the time I see a Delorean fly is about the time Donald trump will be president.

Ronald Reagan was a man of convictions; of convictions he’d spent years explaining to the American people. And Ronald Reagan was two times governor of the most populous state in the Union as well.

Actor may have been on Reagan’s resume, but it was far from all of his resume.

Typhoon on April 18, 2011 at 6:01 PM

Trump is no more of a shameless conman than John McCain.

aengus on April 18, 2011 at 6:03 PM

First he identifies the niche market to exploit: Birthers.

Let me get this straight. We have been complaining about obama’s election, his hidden records, not just the LFBC (well most commenters have been, not hotair magmt), and his Marxist policies for over 2 years now. We have wailed, lamented, pleaded and demanded that SOMEONE step up to the plate. We said why isn’t anyone asking the big questions? Will no one help us? Has one person with any media pull appeared to have the courage to do it? NO! Along comes Donald Trump, a capitalist success story who says he loves this country, and does the very thing we have called for and there is one after another of ‘articles’ who want to seriously knee cap him and get rid of him. Or they waffle and say things like well, he spoke out on Tuesday, but Wednesday is my favorite day, so he’s a fake. Have we fallen into an alternate universe or what?

That reminds me of the story about the drowning man who asked God for help. The man waved off a helicopter, even angerly shaking his fist at it, yelling that he was waiting for God to save him. Well, he drowned. At the Pearly Gates he told God that he had gone to church at least once a week and prayed to Him every evening, so he couldn’t understand why God let him drown. God said, “‘You idiot! I sent you a helicopter!”

Heckle on April 18, 2011 at 6:08 PM

Trump assumes Tea Party afficionados are mostly birthers. This is his mistake. His false candor certainly draws attention, and his poll numbers reflect this, but he is still not a serious candidate.

Sooner or later, the bulk of conservatives will realize what he is doing and will reject him.

rogersnowden on April 18, 2011 at 6:14 PM

Not a serious candidate?! He is leading by a wide margin in at least one poll.

http://investmentwatchblog.com/bachmann-during-first-debate-will-offer-her-birth-certificate/

Heckle on April 18, 2011 at 6:17 PM

Not a serious candidate?! He is leading by a wide margin in at least one poll.

http://tinyurl.com/3lhhecu

Heckle on April 18, 2011 at 6:18 PM

So the politicos are amazed that the GOP found itself a candidate that sells what the electorate wants to buy. What a revolting development that is. The whole damn nomination will be over in a few months. What is the fun in such a sudden victory?

jimw on April 18, 2011 at 6:35 PM

This is what I’ve been saying. The MSM’s choice will be the response above, or avoiding the question completely. In either case, the picture of a lapdog media helping a largely unknown candidate cover his tracks will be obvious — and people’s curiosity will be piqued.

Rational Thought on April 18, 2011 at 5:09 PM

THIS

angryed on April 18, 2011 at 6:40 PM

If Trump actually wins the White House as a Republican, I will be convinced that he is the anti-christ.

And I don’t even know if I’m kidding or not.

pannw on April 18, 2011 at 6:41 PM

I would like to know how everyone thinks Trump is not a serious candidate? What is the qualification for being a “serious” candidate? It has always been that anyone who can get backing is free to run and I have never seen the “not a serious candidate” mantra used before, ever. Rove is already on the job to take him down by claiming he is a joke. I am sick and tired of the powers that be in the Republican party jumping out and stomping people who don’t measure up to their qualifications, i.e. rinoism. Whether or not I agree with Trump or want him for president, he should be able to partake in the process like anyone else without being lambasted by the Republican elite. We can choose him or not, but he has as much right to run as Mike Huckabee or Mitt Romney.

silvernana on April 18, 2011 at 6:44 PM

If Trump actually wins the White House as a Republican, I will be convinced that he is the anti-christ.

And I don’t even know if I’m kidding or not.

pannw on April 18, 2011 at 6:41 PM

Please allow me to introduce myself, I’m a man of wealth and taste.

sharrukin on April 18, 2011 at 6:46 PM

@ Pannw…Actually Trump is a Presbyterian. As such he believes in representative governance, free speech and voting on everything (except the Apostle’s Creed). That’s as traditionally American as you can find.

jimw on April 18, 2011 at 6:52 PM

As long as Trump keep treating Obama like a pinata (sorry, no tilde on my keyboard) at a kid’s birthday party, I’m all for it!!

Khun Joe on April 18, 2011 at 6:59 PM

I would add that the majority of the country does question O’s nativity story. As of March, that number was 51%. I’m curious what that number is after Trump’s media blitz about it.

-Aslan’s Girl

Aslans Girl on April 18, 2011 at 7:02 PM

Heckle on April 18, 2011 at 6:08 PM

Heehee. +1

-Aslan’s Girl

Aslans Girl on April 18, 2011 at 7:07 PM

Hence, once he nails down the nomination, he waits a respectable few days, calls back his “investigators” from the Honolulu Hilton, and sadly announces to the nation that there were no conclusive results and that we need to assume that Barack Obama was qualified to take office.

So you think that the Donald will also cover for Obama in the end?

disa on April 18, 2011 at 7:09 PM

So you think that the Donald will also cover for Obama in the end?

disa on April 18, 2011 at 7:09 PM

He doesn’t actually think anything.
Its a say anything hit piece.

Short version…
Trump is a fraud. Trump is evil. Birthers are stupid.

sharrukin on April 18, 2011 at 7:12 PM

man you rino lovers would fall for anything won’t you.

It doesn’t matter to me. trump is better than Mitt which is whom he is stealing votes from. The smart ones have already picked Palin.

And he will flame out.

trump does show that B.T was correct. There is a sucker born every minute.

unseen on April 18, 2011 at 5:39 PM

I don’t see a lot of ‘Trump LOVERS’ here. What I see are people interested in what he has to say, and cheering him on as he lands punches on Obama. That’s about it.

You’re jumping the gun a bit and overreacting.

fossten on April 18, 2011 at 7:17 PM

First he identifies the niche market to exploit: Birthers. Constitutionalists. And lest we forget the most important sector here, the birther curious Those who while not wanting to be called a birther know that it is totally unacceptable that we really don’t know where he was born. Are there a majority of Americans who fall into these categories? Obviously yes not, unless you subscribe to the view that the majority are child-like and gullible. But that’s not the game being played right now. Those concerned with the eligibility issue are tired of the games.

Basilsbest on April 18, 2011 at 7:20 PM

Are Is there a majority of Americans who fall into these categories this category?

FIFY for grammar. Of course, your explanation was a bit muddled as to whether or not the ‘birther curious’ is a sub-category of ‘birthers’, so I reserve the right to change that last part if you bother to clarify.

fossten on April 18, 2011 at 7:32 PM

Hence, once he nails down the nomination, he waits a respectable few days, calls back his “investigators” from the Honolulu Hilton, and sadly announces to the nation that there were no conclusive results and that we need to assume that Barack Obama was qualified to take office. This is followed by an immediate 90 degree pivot and he’s on to talking about what a terrible job Obama has done and why he shouldn’t be given a second term.

You don’t get it. We aren’t going to take anyone’s word on this. We want to see the effing document, you tool.

It’s genius. Pure and simple.

It’s The Art of the Deal all over again folks. And thus far, it’s showing that The Donald isn’t nearly as dumb or as much of a clown as most of the media and his establishment GOP opponents would like to have us believe he is. Hang on to your hats. Donald Trump just may BS and waltz his way into being the next president.

Only a fool would believe it would be ingenious for Trump to press this issue and then abandon it as soon as he secures the nomination. Those who supported him because of his courageous and principled stand on the eligibility issue would not bother voting for him if he betrays them.

This article isn’t about Trump. It’s about the intellectual lightness of Jazz Shaw,

Basilsbest on April 18, 2011 at 7:57 PM

Trump Obama is dangerous for the USoA.

davidk on April 18, 2011 at 5:26 PM

FIFY

If Trump Obama actually wins the White House as a Republican Democrat, I will be convinced that he is the anti-christ, especially given the fact that Obama gives more allegiance to muslim nations and has said that “America is no longer a Christian nation”.

And I don’t even know if I’m kidding or not.

pannw on April 18, 2011 at 6:41 PM

There I fixed it for both of you…

Mcguyver on April 18, 2011 at 7:59 PM

Once again, Hotair characterizes those who have concerns about what Obama is hiding as “birthers” and “crazy.” It just astonishes me that anyone interested in knowing the truth is now defined as crazy. For Hotair’s information, there is no document available to the public indicating where Obama was born, period. If the president’s attempts to keep it that way don’t concern you, who’s crazy?

NNtrancer on April 18, 2011 at 8:07 PM

Please allow me to introduce myself, I’m a man of wealth and taste.
sharrukin on April 18, 2011 at 6:46 PM

Hehe… Think the Stones will give him permission to use it as his campaign theme?

jimw on April 18, 2011 at 6:52 PM

Okay…but is that our standard now? So long as the candidate is for representative gov’t and believes we should get to vote, that’s good enough? I sort of expect my candidate to believe that and a bit more. My point is that he is not a conservative (He gave Harry Reid money in 2010) and if he can convince enough Republicans/conservatives that he is and to vote for him, well, that would seem rather ‘miraculous’ to me, (scary as crap, actually) and I don’t think he is the Second Coming, so… ;)

For the record, I’m one of those birther curious. I find Trump somewhat entertaining and definitely more than just a ‘clown’. He’s no idiot, which is part of what scares me; I enjoy his attacking Obama on the birth certificate issue; if he damages Obama, fantastic. But, the enemy of my enemy is my friend no matter what else he is isn’t really a concept I embrace to the point I’m okay with the enemy of my enemy is going to be my President. I don’t believe he share’s my values and I don’t trust him. I also will not vote for him. That includes in a race for the lesser of two evils.

There I fixed it for both of you…
Mcguyver on April 18, 2011 at 7:59 PM

Oh, I was almost truly convinced of that when he won, given all the reasons he shouldn’t have, but I have since decided that Obama is not nearly smart enough to be the anti-christ. :P Unless that is part of his evil plan to deceive…

pannw on April 18, 2011 at 8:20 PM

“The man whose motive is honorable never resents the spotlight of inquiry.”
- Wise Man

.
.

That’s the refreshing difference between Obama and Trump.

Trump is simply exposing what should be obvious: Obama’s motives are not honorable what with him not being forthcoming and not being the open book like he promised on the campaign trail.

Trump’s judgement may be off regarding his own policies aligning with true conservative/republican principles for a political campaign, but his motive and attitude is one of forcing and expecting people to be honest and beholden to the truth, because as he stated, he “sees so much fraud in his business..”.

Notice that Trump has no problem with the details of his political notions being exposed as he answers questions about them forthrightly.

This poll will shift dramatically, with Obama getting even lower results as time goes on and Obama is proven a complete fraud as not being eligible – and knowingly so – for POTUS.

Trump has said many times that he loves this country.. and so his motives are pure because our success as a country is based on Trump’s ability and opportunity through free enterprise, to make as much money as he so desires.

The same cannot be said of Obama.

If there ever was an anti-christ, American hating politician it is Obama, who has said that “America is no longer a Christian nation”, and who, at every turn tries to take down our freedoms and our founding principles and our heritage of liberty and self-determination.

Anybody too obtuse to see the truth about Obama that Trump is exposing, deserves the government and the country…. that they get through Obama and all the other RINO retreads that are dithering and probably ultimately will run for POTUS at some point.

The fact is, with all the obtuseness represented here…. it is the Republicans that will run an Independent spoiler in the general election if Trump wins the Republican primary, because at the end of the day, the RINOs will be PISSED that Donald not only trumped them but also stole their thunder…

Bookmark my words, as you can take them to the bank for your political handicapping purposes.

Mcguyver on April 18, 2011 at 8:23 PM

Oh, I was almost truly convinced of that when he won, given all the reasons he shouldn’t have, but I have since decided that Obama is not nearly smart enough to be the anti-christ. :P Unless that is part of his evil plan to deceive…

pannw on April 18, 2011 at 8:20 PM

Does George Soros mean anything to you?

They, the powers that be, would never install as president the real anti-christ, as that would be too obvious. The real anti-christ lurks behind the scene as in a conglomeration of powers that pull the strings and Obama is simply their puppet, who by the way… they can remove in a heartbeat if he no longer serves their purposes.

That is… if you want to believe in the “Anti-Christ”, as an actual human being, which truth be told, ultimately REALLY ONLY exists in a mindset that resides within groups of people in power, who seeks to destroy all the Judeo-Christian principles that are embedded in our founding principles.

We battle against principalities and powers (or mindsets and ambitions, if you will) in high places and not against a particular physical man, thus meaning we should fight against Obama’s mindset and his evil desire to deceive us and mislead as to what his real motive is, which is obvious with all the lies that he has told us.

Thus shines the genius of Trump, who has said that he likes Obama and even the Democrats, because he knows how NOT to have the masses shut him out and thus what he has to say doesn’t get shut out and cut off...

Genius, pure genius, that Donald Trump is, and that is amazing considering that he is a Presbyterian, but I digress…..

Mcguyver on April 18, 2011 at 8:43 PM

Oh, the stupidity…

Someone riddle me this…

Why would they fake the birth announcement in the newspaper(s)?

Before you say access to social services and the like, there was nothing he would be denied with the status of being his US citizen mothers son no matter where born. Unless of course you are arguing he isn’t his mothers son or they knew he would need to be a “natural born” citizen for future aspirations.

It’s stupid and makes everyone involved look stupid and desperate.

NextGen on April 18, 2011 at 9:02 PM

He knows business, I believe he would put America first, he’d be very friendly to my tax bracket, he’s a zillion time better than chimpy-mc-barry-hitler.

Alden Pyle on April 18, 2011 at 9:02 PM

Why would they fake the birth announcement in the newspaper(s)?

NextGen on April 18, 2011 at 9:02 PM

Why do 200,000 Mexicans cross the southern border every year?

They want American citizenship.

Its just crazy to think that someone would want American citizenship ya stupid bifres, yuk, yuk. /

sharrukin on April 18, 2011 at 9:09 PM

They want American citizenship.

Its just crazy to think that someone would want American citizenship ya stupid bifres, yuk, yuk. /

sharrukin on April 18, 2011 at 9:09 PM

God no wonder Trump is so popular if your post is any measure. His mother was an American Citizen….he would have citizenship in any event.

The only question has been what constitutes “natural born citizen”

Not citizen…

Jeez…

NextGen on April 18, 2011 at 9:17 PM

That distinction is important because once you recognize the reality that the only question is Citizen vs. Natural Born citizen, there is no motivation to have falsified the birth announcements in the paper…

and the birther argument falls apart….

NextGen on April 18, 2011 at 9:21 PM

The only question has been what constitutes “natural born citizen”

NextGen on April 18, 2011 at 9:17 PM

No actually that isn’t the only question.

There are many question that remain unanswered including what his real name is.

Is it Obama, or is it soetoro?
Is he an Indonesian citizen?
Was he adopted by soetoro?
Did he attend schools as a foreign student?
Why is he using a Connecticut social security number?
When did he become a Christian, or is he still a Muslim?
Was his mother old enough to confer citizenship on him with the laws of that time?

Nothing has been answered about the International Man Of Mystery.

sharrukin on April 18, 2011 at 9:28 PM

Of course his parents wanted citizenship for Obama, so do millions of parents from other countries.

If and when the parent found out that getting a citizenship status for child was made expedient by a newspaper announcement, why wouldn’t they move earth to get it done?

Is doesn’t have to be a conspiracy orchastrated by his parents, as in foreseeing future presidential material in their son, all it had to be was a sincere desire by the parents for seeking American citizenship…!!

Those who seek to smear us “birthers” as conspiracy theorist, actually have to concoct an even BIGGER conspiracy to support their “non-conspiracy” theory against the “birther’s theory”.

Stupid, you birther bashers are, STUPID AND PURE IDIOTS..!!

Mcguyver on April 18, 2011 at 9:32 PM

sharrukin on April 18, 2011 at 9:28 PM

And not a single one of those argues the point we were discussing. He would have been a US citizen either way. Nice try though when confroted with facts in response to your position instead of admiting the point..you answer with a complete non sequitur.

NextGen on April 18, 2011 at 10:01 PM

Was his mother old enough to confer citizenship on him with the laws of that time?

And not a single one of those argues the point we were discussing.

NextGen on April 18, 2011 at 10:01 PM

Try reading moron.

sharrukin on April 18, 2011 at 10:05 PM

If and when the parent found out that getting a citizenship status for child was made expedient by a newspaper announcement, why wouldn’t they move earth to get it done?

Is doesn’t have to be a conspiracy orchastrated by his parents, as in foreseeing future presidential material in their son, all it had to be was a sincere desire by the parents for seeking American citizenship…!!

Those who seek to smear us “birthers” as conspiracy theorist, actually have to concoct an even BIGGER conspiracy to support their “non-conspiracy” theory against the “birther’s theory”.

Stupid, you birther bashers are, STUPID AND PURE IDIOTS..!!

Mcguyver on April 18, 2011 at 9:32 PM

Or in an alternate Universe where reality still reigns, he was born in HI and the crazy people get treatment instead of being manipulated by fake presidential candidates.

NextGen on April 18, 2011 at 10:09 PM

God no wonder Trump is so popular if your post is any measure. His mother was an American Citizen….he would have citizenship in any event.

The only question has been what constitutes “natural born citizen”

Not citizen…

Jeez…

NextGen on April 18, 2011 at 9:17 PM

You’re so smart you could replace Paul Krugman. Perhaps this will help.


This is from Stephen Tonchen’s fabulous site Presidential Eligibility Primer

U.S. Nationality Laws in 1961: When Barack Obama was born (August 4, 1961), his father (Obama Senior) was not a U.S. citizen, and his mother (Stanley Ann Dunham), though a U.S. citizen, was too young to confer U.S. citizenship to a foreign-born child. Consequently, if Obama were born overseas and his parents were married, he did not acquire U.S. citizenship at birth.

Obama’s American citizen parent, Ann Dunham, had to have been a resident of the United States for 10 years, at least five of which were over the age of 14. Dunham did not meet that requirement (of the Nationality Act of 1940, revised June, 1952) until her 19th birthday in late November of 1961, almost four months after Obama was born. The law confers U.S. nationality on the infant of a foreign father only under certain circumstances; it would apply to “(7) a person born outside the geographical limits of the United States and its outlying possessions of parents one of whom is an alien, and the other a citizen of the United States, who prior to the birth of such person, was physically present in the United States or its outlying possessions for a period or periods totaling not less than ten years, at least five of which were after attaining the age of fourteen years.” (Fredrick)
Stanley Ann Dunham was born on November 29, 1942. When her son, Barack Obama, was born (August 4, 1961), Stanley Ann was 18 years old. According to the U.S. Nationality Act which was in effect in 1961, Stanley Ann had to be at least 19 years old in order to confer U.S. citizenship to a foreign-born son.

What are the rules for people born between December 23, 1952 and November 13, 1986?
Again, children born abroad to two US citizen parents were US citizens at birth, as long as one of the parents resided in the US at some point before the birth of the child.

When one parent was a US citizen and the other a foreign national, the US citizen parent must have resided in the US for a total of 10 years prior to the birth of the child, with five of the years after the age of 14. An exception for people serving in the military was created by considering time spent outside the US on military duty as time spent in the US.

While there were initially rules regarding what the child must do to retain citizenship, amendments since 1952 have eliminated these requirements.

Children born out of wedlock to a US citizen mother were US citizens if the mother was resident in the US for a period of one year prior to the birth of the child. Children born out of wedlock to a US citizen father acquired US citizenship only if legitimated before turning 21. (ABC’s of Immigration: Citizenship Rules for People Born Outside the United States)

If Obama were born outside of the United States and if his parents were married when he was born, he did not acquire U.S. citizenship at birth.

Basilsbest on April 18, 2011 at 10:09 PM

Basilsbest on April 18, 2011 at 10:09 PM

Correct, but upon entering the country he would have.

It’s a fake issue..

NextGen on April 18, 2011 at 10:14 PM

Correct, but upon entering the country he would have.

It’s a fake issue..

NextGen on April 18, 2011 at 10:14 PM

Source?

Basilsbest on April 18, 2011 at 10:17 PM

Waiting.

Basilsbest on April 18, 2011 at 11:21 PM

Actually I was wrong… I thought the choice to apply the old or new standard 10 years and 14+5 or 14+2 applied to all but it only applies to the children of unwed mothers. I post this because I believe when making a mistake you must admit that mistake.

The article I had read previously

http://volokh.com/archives/archive_2008_11_30-2008_12_06.shtml#1227910730

with legal opinion has since been changed to reflect the misreading.

NextGen on April 19, 2011 at 12:17 AM

But that’s not the game being played right now. Trump doesn’t need to win over half the voters in the country yet. He doesn’t even need to win over half the Republicans. It’s a crowded field at this stage and all you need to do is ring up some numbers above 20% with likely primary voters and you’re either in first place or close to it. And even the latest polls during the time period Donald was considering a run show that you can beat that number easily with only this niche market.

If registered Republicans represent about 35% of the voters in a general Presidential election, 20% of them for Trump represent only 7% of the total electorate. As Jazz pointed out, that can be first place “in a crowded field” with the hope of building “momentum” in early primaries for the nomination, but can 7% be parlayed into 51%? Let’s ask “Senators” Christine O’Donnell and Sharron Angle whether riding a fringe to the GOP nomination is good for our country, with Harry Reid still leading the Senate.

Let’s face it–the GOP nominee, whoever he/she is, will need a good chunk of the “mushy middle” Independent voters to win the Presidency. Most of them will give Obama the benefit of the doubt about his birthplace, but could be persuaded to blame him for rising unemployment, deficits, and gasoline prices, and bungled foreign policy.

Trump might be gathering a fringe following on the birth issue, but where is he on the issues that matter to most of the American people–jobs, energy, taxes, spending, unions, foreign policy? Just the other day, Trump told Hannity that taking out Saddam Hussein in Iraq was a mistake, because it eliminated one of Iran’s enemies, while Obama has been cozying up to Ahma-Nutjob and ignoring the nuclear threat. If Trump won the GOP nomination, there would be no candidate willing to contain or restrain Iran’s belligerence, and defend America and her allies.

Trump might be riding a “Birther” wave to 20% of the GOP vote, but there’s a LOT more to being President than asking where the current President was born. The “non-Trump vote” might be spread out between many candidates now, but as the primaries proceed, some candidates in single digits will drop out, and hopefully their votes will coalesce around a candidate who can beat Obama.

It’s also time to start asking Trump some tough questions, especially from the right. Conservatives need to “vet” their own candidates (including, but not limited to Trump) BEFORE the primaries so that our voters select the best candidate in full knowledge of everybody’s strength AND weakness AND baggage. We can count on the Democrats to smear our eventual nominee, but we need to weed out the losers BEFORE it’s too late.

Steve Z on April 19, 2011 at 1:38 PM