Where’s the 5-minute tax form?

posted at 12:55 pm on April 15, 2011 by Ed Morrissey

John Merline makes the jump from AOL to Investors Business Daily with this look at a campaign promise from Barack Obama that has gone not only unfulfilled but unacknowledged.  On Tax Day, Obama promised during the campaign, taxpayers would soon be able to do their own taxes in just five minutes with a simplified form.  More than two years later, following a Congress which his own party entirely controlled, not only has that not come to pass, but Obama hasn’t even attempted to fulfill that pledge:

When Barack Obama was running for president, he promised voters a simpler tax code. “When I’m president,” he said, “we’ll put in place a system where 40 million Americans . .. can do their taxes in less than five minutes.”

But President Obama hasn’t made good on that promise. Not only is there no five-minute tax form, but since he took office the byzantine tax code has grown increasingly complex. This year, it will take the average taxpayer 23 hours just to fill out form 1040 — up from 21 hours last year, according to the IRS. It now takes seven hours to fill out the so-called 1040 EZ.

Only in Washington could someone name a form that takes seven hours to complete the “EZ” version.

It’s not as if Obama hasn’t had opportunities to pursue tax reform, either.  He had the entirety of the 111th Session of Congress, with its large Democratic majorities, to pass a simplification of the tax code.  Not only would such an effort breezed through Congress, Obama would likely have picked up significant Republican support, making his claims of post-partisanship much more credible.  Taxpayers would have loved it, and Democrats would likely have at least held control of the House in the midterms, or perhaps even expanded their majorities.  The Tea Party might not have caught the imagination of grassroots activists.

Instead, Obama chose to pursue ObamaCare, and his electoral disaster soon followed.  Even late in the game, though, after ObamaCare passed, Obama had a perfect opening to return to the tax code issue, as Merline points out:

A year ago, he promised to “make it easier, quicker and less expensive for you to file a return” and ordered his Economic Recovery Advisory Board to find ways to simplify the code. …

But Obama hasn’t done much more than talk about the issue. The advisory board report went nowhere, and the president hasn’t pushed his five-minute tax idea since taking office.

Just as with the deficit commission, Obama called the panel into being and then ignored its recommendations.  They existed for one purpose — to provide political cover for Obama’s efforts on reform.  Why set the expectation by creating the panels just to waste the opportunity to get something accomplished?  That’s especially true when it comes to an effort that most people would welcome with open arms.

Instead of talking simplification, Obama talks about eliminating deductions, a notion that’s highly unpopular.  Whatever political magic and skill Obama might have once had has abandoned him in office, and in this case the failure is all but inexplicable.


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Only in Washington could someone name a form that takes seven hours to complete the “EZ” version.

We have a bozo who thinks presidentin’ is an EZ job.

OmahaConservative on April 15, 2011 at 12:58 PM

Tax return preparers have a significant lobby, and they will fight tooth and nail against any simplification. How could you heartless people want to put them out of business?

slickwillie2001 on April 15, 2011 at 12:58 PM

Well he just proposed eliminating all deductions and credits didn’t he? That should make it simple. The new 1040 Obama will be very easy. Basically you list every asset you own and as long as it isn’t above a certain amount you can keep it.

Rocks on April 15, 2011 at 12:58 PM

More empty words from hollow man, the mouthpiece of the disgusting democrats. Skilled at class warfare politics and not much else.

ClanDerson on April 15, 2011 at 1:00 PM

He’s lazy, he’s a first class liar and now he’s on the campaign trail and can’t be bothered because he’s making up more lies and promises to get re-elected.

Period. The. End.

Knucklehead on April 15, 2011 at 1:01 PM

1040 EZ is the EZ way to lose your shirt. It’s worth the time to itemize, and only lose half your shirt.

Steve Z on April 15, 2011 at 1:03 PM

We have a bozo who thinks presidentin’ is an EZ job.

OmahaConservative on April 15, 2011 at 12:58 PM

It is easy when you do it the way he does it.

“Now watch this drive.”

Cicero43 on April 15, 2011 at 1:04 PM

You didn’t believe him did you…? remember the oceans will recede and the earth will begin to heal itself…?

d1carter on April 15, 2011 at 1:04 PM

simplified:

1) How much money did you make?

2) Send it in

raccoonradio on April 15, 2011 at 1:06 PM

Instead of talking simplification, Obama talks about eliminating deductions, a notion that’s highly unpopular.

It’s only unpopular because most voters don’t understand econmics. Deductions produce economic distortions. Distortions are bad, ceteris paribus.

(It’s funny how eliminating deductions is a brilliant idea when Paul Ryan proposes it, but it’s socialism when Obama proposes it.)

hicsuget on April 15, 2011 at 1:09 PM

The five minute form:

Name or Your Favorite Alias:
Address money will be sent to:
Cash or Check:
SS # (Optional, enter anything):
Did you try and work? (EITC Bonus!):

strictnein on April 15, 2011 at 1:10 PM

“When I’m president,” he said, “we’ll put in place a system where 40 million Americans . .. can do their taxes in less than five minutes.”

He’s right, but not in the way you’re thinking. Nearly 50% pay no federal taxes at all! I’m surprised he hasn’t mentioned it yet…

stoutcat on April 15, 2011 at 1:10 PM

(It’s funny how eliminating deductions is a brilliant idea when Paul Ryan proposes it, but it’s socialism when Obama proposes it.)

hicsuget on April 15, 2011 at 1:09 PM

Really? It’s not funny when you consider the motives behind each person’s actions, though, is it? At least not for me. Let’s see: Paul Ryan is trying to salvage the United States economy so that we can continue to exist, whereas Barack Obama is trying to implode the United States economy so that he and the rest of the liberal, socialist elites can rebuild it to their more enlightened specs. Yeah, just not seeing any similarity at all.

cynccook on April 15, 2011 at 1:13 PM

Tax reform really deserves more discussion, especially now. We could attain the Democrats goal of raising more money in taxes without actually raising taxes with the right reforms.

David Shane on April 15, 2011 at 1:13 PM

Just words.

iurockhead on April 15, 2011 at 1:13 PM

1040EZ 7 hours to complete? WTF? I helped my sister do her taxes using a 1040EZ. Took about 30 mins.

There are 1000 things to hammer Obama on. This is not one of them.

angryed on April 15, 2011 at 1:14 PM

1040 EZ is the EZ way to lose your shirt. It’s worth the time to itemize, and only lose half your shirt.

Steve Z on April 15, 2011 at 1:03 PM

Not everyone has things to itemize. Or if they do, anything up to $11,600 is not going to make a difference since that is the standard deduction.

angryed on April 15, 2011 at 1:16 PM

Form Line 1: How much did you make? ________________
Form Line 2: Send it in.

Done in less than five minutes!

DuctTapeMyBrain on April 15, 2011 at 1:16 PM

There are 1000 things to hammer Obama on. This is not one of them.

angryed on April 15, 2011 at 1:14 PM

If it looks like a nail then hammer it.

Rocks on April 15, 2011 at 1:16 PM

If it looks like a nail then hammer it.

Rocks on April 15, 2011 at 1:16 PM

Yeah but if you’re telling people it takes 7 hours to file taxes and they’re doing it in an hour, you sound like an idiot.

angryed on April 15, 2011 at 1:17 PM

(It’s funny how eliminating deductions is a brilliant idea when Paul Ryan proposes it, but it’s socialism when Obama proposes it.)

hicsuget on April 15, 2011 at 1:09 PM

Deductions do distort the economy. I would bet that most conservatives would support doing away with all deductions in exchange for a simple flat tax that spreads the legitimate burden of running the federal government across the wide spectrum of taxpayers.

If conservatives oppose Comrade Zero’s proposal to eliminate deductions, it isn’t hyprocrisy. Rather, it’s because they see it for what it is — a big tax hike disguised as “simplification.”

Tell me, hicsuget, did Obama fool you into thinking his tax increase was just simplification???

Cicero43 on April 15, 2011 at 1:17 PM

angryed on April 15, 2011 at 1:16 PM

That’s for a couple.

Rocks on April 15, 2011 at 1:17 PM

There are 1000 things to hammer Obama on. This is not one of them.

angryed on April 15, 2011 at 1:14 PM

I hear you. 23 hours for the 1040 is a stretch for most people, too, I would think. Takes me about 30 minutes using tax software, and I am sure many people have simpler forms than I.

mwdiver on April 15, 2011 at 1:18 PM

Tell me, hicsuget, did Obama fool you into thinking his tax increase was just simplification???

Cicero43 on April 15, 2011 at 1:17 PM

That’s why we should never underestimate the stupidity of the average American.

angryed on April 15, 2011 at 1:19 PM

Maybe it takes a government worker to do an EZ in 7 hours. Me? Like angryed, about a half hour. It never took me more than 3 or 4 hours for the long form.

23 hours? For what? A real estate empire? Certainly not for a normal household.

MNHawk on April 15, 2011 at 1:19 PM

Yeah but if you’re telling people it takes 7 hours to file taxes and they’re doing it in an hour, you sound like an idiot.

angryed on April 15, 2011 at 1:17 PM

Because your personal experience is typical right?

Rocks on April 15, 2011 at 1:20 PM

Because your personal experience is typical right?

Rocks on April 15, 2011 at 1:20 PM

See

MNHawk on April 15, 2011 at 1:19 PM

mwdiver on April 15, 2011 at 1:18 PM

angryed on April 15, 2011 at 1:22 PM

whine, whine, whine.

Come on, Ed! You really want Obama messing with taxes?

Didn’t think so…

jdoubleu on April 15, 2011 at 1:23 PM

The maximum effective range of an Obama promise is ZERO meters. He is worse than a statist, he is a GREEDY statist.

A vote for Obama against Republican nominee ___ is essentially the same as tearing up one’s conservative cred for life, period.

itzWicks on April 15, 2011 at 1:23 PM

mwdiver on April 15, 2011 at 1:18 PM

And that includes my state return.

mwdiver on April 15, 2011 at 1:24 PM

Well, looking at the positive side of things it will take even less time to fill out this new form since you won’t be able to take any deductions anymore.

Silver linings…

catmman on April 15, 2011 at 1:25 PM

Thankfully, Obama hasn’t found a way to simplify the tax forms. Keep in mind that the current forms are someone else’s idea of simplified forms.

SlaveDog on April 15, 2011 at 1:25 PM

hicsuget on April 15, 2011 at 1:09 PM

Yes, voters don’t undertand economics…

The economics of eliminating deductions for those evil wealthy, fat cats – while keeping tax breaks for other classes?

You can’t reform something so complex as the tax code piece by piece. People love to say “picking winners and losers”, but that is exactly what Zero is trying to do here.

You want to eliminate deductions, fine. Get rid of that earned income credit, too.

reaganaut on April 15, 2011 at 1:25 PM

The 40 million he was speaking about are the 40 million who aren’t required to pay taxes.

Suggested format looks something like this:

I swear I have no tax liability because I am:

(check one)

An immigrant

On Welfare my whole life

An Obama voter

Timothy Geithner

BobMbx on April 15, 2011 at 1:26 PM

See

MNHawk on April 15, 2011 at 1:19 PM

mwdiver on April 15, 2011 at 1:18 PM

I did. Tell me when you get to 20 million and we might be approaching an average. The numbers listed are not simply the amount of time needed to write the information into the form. It counts the time needed to gather the needed information. It also counts the time needed to read and understand the instructions. It isn’t meant to show using tax software.

Rocks on April 15, 2011 at 1:26 PM

OT:
Man, I just cannot stand hearing 0bama speak with that odd whistling he does.
Drives me up the wall…

OmahaConservative on April 15, 2011 at 1:27 PM

Maybe it takes a government worker to do an EZ in 7 hours. Me? Like angryed, about a half hour. It never took me more than 3 or 4 hours for the long form.

23 hours? For what? A real estate empire? Certainly not for a normal household.

MNHawk on April 15, 2011 at 1:19 PM

Perhaps these numbers are based on how long it takes a recent government K-12 graduate to do.

slickwillie2001 on April 15, 2011 at 1:28 PM

Obama promised during the campaign, taxpayers would soon be able to do their own taxes in just five minutes with a simplified form.

Obama EZ-PZ Tax Form:

How much did you make last year? _____________
SEND IT IN!

See how easy that was?

GarandFan on April 15, 2011 at 1:29 PM

Tell me, hicsuget, did Obama fool you into thinking his tax increase was just simplification???

Cicero43 on April 15, 2011 at 1:17 PM

Of course not! Most of Obama’s policies so far have complicated the tax code (all the deductions for “green” initiatives, for instance). I’m certainly no fan of the guy.

What bothers me, though, is how conservatives attack him even when he’s advocating conservative policies. (See also the Republican outrage over Obama’s proposed cuts to Medicare as part of the Obamacare fiasco.) You’re not pro-America, you’re anti-Obama, and there is sometimes a difference between the two.

hicsuget on April 15, 2011 at 1:32 PM

“When I’m president,” he said, “we’ll put in place a system where 40 million Americans . .. can do their taxes in less than five minutes.”

Ah….I see the delay now. ‘When he’s President’ is the operative statement here.

Does he sound like a President? No. Does he act like a President? No. Then he ain’t the President.

BobMbx on April 15, 2011 at 1:34 PM

It counts the time needed to gather the needed information. It also counts the time needed to read and understand the instructions. It isn’t meant to show using tax software.

Rocks on April 15, 2011 at 1:26 PM

Like MNHawk, it never took me more than 3 or 4 hours when I did it manually. Gathering the info isn’t any big deal, if you have any organizing skills, at all. Make up some envelopes. Throughout the year, as you buy/spend money on things that relate to your taxes, throw the receipts into the corresponding envelope. When you do your taxes, pull them out, enter the info. Done.

mwdiver on April 15, 2011 at 1:35 PM

‘When he’s President’
BobMbx on April 15, 2011 at 1:34 PM

Oh, I see the problem. I thought he said “When I’m not voting present.”

mwdiver on April 15, 2011 at 1:37 PM

Throughout the year, as you buy/spend money on things that relate to your taxes, throw the receipts into the corresponding envelope. When you do your taxes, pull them out, enter the info. Done.

mwdiver on April 15, 2011 at 1:35 PM

You’re just like GE! Taking advantage of the tax laws for deductions and credits…how unpatriotic. You should be ashamed. For Christs sake…don’t you know the country needs your money?

BobMbx on April 15, 2011 at 1:40 PM

You want to eliminate deductions, fine. Get rid of that earned income credit, too.

reaganaut on April 15, 2011 at 1:25 PM

I agree with you that the EITC should be eliminated. However…

The purpose of the EITC was welfare reform. (Ford created it, and Reagan and both Bushes expanded it, for a reason.) Here’s a simple example with made-up numbers. Suppose you’re on welfare at $10k / yr. You could get a part-time minimum wage job at $7k / yr, but then you’d lose the $10k in welfare benefits, so your job would in effect pay you negative $3k, and you’d be better off as a welfare queen than working.

By phasing out welfare benefits gradually instead of all at once (in our example, let’s say you lose $0.50 in benefit for every $1 you make up to $20k), your part-time job would only displace $3500 in welfare, so you’d end up with $7k wages + $6500 EITC = $13,500; thus your job would in effect pay $3500, and you’re better off working + collecting government money than simply collecting government money.

The EITC is smarter and less harmful than regular welfare. That is not to say that it is smart, or that it is not harmful, but it is better than the alternative.

hicsuget on April 15, 2011 at 1:40 PM

You’re just like GE!
BobMbx on April 15, 2011 at 1:40 PM

Unfortunately, I apparently pay more taxes than GE.

mwdiver on April 15, 2011 at 1:43 PM

simplified:

1) How much money did you make?

2) Send it in

raccoonradio on April 15, 2011 at 1:06 PM

I would have posted that first, but I had to drive over to the Post Office and mail my (amended) tax return.

oldleprechaun on April 15, 2011 at 1:45 PM

I did. Tell me when you get to 20 million and we might be approaching an average. The numbers listed are not simply the amount of time needed to write the information into the form. It counts the time needed to gather the needed information. It also counts the time needed to read and understand the instructions. It isn’t meant to show using tax software.

Rocks on April 15, 2011 at 1:26 PM

Here’s what you need to complete the 1040EZ form.

1. W2 forms
2. Social security numbers of your dependents
3. A pen

It does not take 7 hours to get this info and read a couple of pages worth of instructions.

If you can’t understand instructions like

Enter the number from your W2, Box 1 on line 10,

then you have bigger issues than the time it takes to fill out your tax forms.

angryed on April 15, 2011 at 1:46 PM

angryed on April 15, 2011 at 1:46 PM

+1

mwdiver on April 15, 2011 at 1:50 PM

Unfortunately, I apparently pay more taxes than GE.

mwdiver on April 15, 2011 at 1:43 PM

Unfortunately, you apparently haven’t read the news since the GE tax hoax was published on Mar 25.

Washington Post: “The truth about GE’s tax bill

Did GE pay U.S. income taxes in 2010? Yes, it paid estimated taxes for 2010 and made payments for previous years. Think of it as your having paid withholding taxes on your salary in 2010 and sending the IRS a check on April 15, 2010, covering your balance owed for 2009.

Will GE ultimately pay U.S. income taxes for 2010? After much to-ing and fro-ing — the company says it hasn’t completed its 2010 tax return — GE now says that it will.

Wall Street Journal: “GE Expects US 2010 Income Tax Liability To Be Offset By Overpayments

In response to questions from Dow Jones Newswires, GE said the U.S. portion of the payments it was referring to included “overpayments applied to the 2010 return from prior years,” as well as “cash tax payments.

hicsuget on April 15, 2011 at 1:55 PM

On Tax Day, Obama promised during the campaign, taxpayers would soon be able to do their own taxes in just five minutes with a simplified form.

Well, don’t encourge him (Obama). The sooner he forgets that promise, the better.

Their dearest dream would be on Tax Day, only one question will be on the tax form. “How much you made last year? Sign here on the dotted line to fork over 95%.”

Less than 5 minute, just as effective.

Sir Napsalot on April 15, 2011 at 1:59 PM

You didn’t believe him did you…? remember the oceans will recede and the earth will begin to heal itself…?

d1carter on April 15, 2011 at 1:04 PM

Heh I thought he had a “direct line” or lineage with Moses.

ProudPalinFan on April 15, 2011 at 2:06 PM

You’re not pro-America, you’re anti-Obama, and there is sometimes a difference between the two.

Seeing how well Barry is working out, what makes you think he’s “pro-America”?

I suppose that “budget” he presented with $1.6 TILLION in deficit spending was for the good of the country?

GarandFan on April 15, 2011 at 2:06 PM

Line one – list earnings from last year.

Line two – send it in.

Schadenfreude on April 15, 2011 at 2:16 PM

1040EZ 7 hours to complete? WTF? I helped my sister do her taxes using a 1040EZ. Took about 30 mins.

When they say “fill out the form” in these sorts of things, they also include time to gather the paperwork, read instructions, find numbers, etc etc etc.

You miss the point. I’m sure that was not intentional, though.

Then again, you’re the guy who thinks adding 60% tax burden to everyone isn’t a big deal, right?

lorien1973 on April 15, 2011 at 2:17 PM

hicsuget on April 15, 2011 at 1:55 PM

Good to know. I missed that. I did say, “apparently,” however, so I do have a minor out on that. Thanks for the info.

mwdiver on April 15, 2011 at 2:17 PM

Flat taxes would be far simpler to manage for both sides of the equation. Certainly the IRS could reduce their workforce and only need to hire employees whose skill set included picking “which number is bigger” and matching it with the adjacent line on their tables. Tax payers would know at any given moment what their tax burden would be, therefore know what their household budget should look like at any given time.

And corporations would save billions on accountancy, freeing up resources for growth, R&D, etc. I’ve played with the flat tax idea for many years and tried to shred it but can’t find a downside.

Open season, commenters.

Robert17 on April 15, 2011 at 2:35 PM

I bought ‘Turbobama Tax’ just last week.

It only took 5 minutes to run on my home computer, but for some strange reason, my bank account is now empty…

percysunshine on April 15, 2011 at 2:38 PM

Speaking as someone who has worked as a tax preparer….

A lot of people are idiots. I have never understood why someone will pay HRB or JH $35 or $40 when all they have is one or maybe two W-2s. Even doing it by hand, that should take 5 minutes, maybe. But most of these people seem also incapable of adding two and two and getting four.

If you have more than just W-2s, the only real trick is to actually put your paperwork away when you get it in a designated file folder or drawer, so come tax prep time, all you have to do is open the file.

We just bought a house, so next year I’ll have itemizing to do. I expect the whole process to take me less than an hour, for state and fed taxes.

Right now the worst part of tax season for us is trying to get MyPay.gov to accept our password and let us print my husband’s 1099 for his retired military pay. That takes longer than everything else combined.

LibraryGryffon on April 15, 2011 at 2:39 PM

It took me nearly a half-hour to get the numbers together to file for an *extension.*

skydaddy on April 15, 2011 at 2:43 PM

“When I’m president,” he said, “we’ll put in place a system where 40 million Americans . .. can do their taxes in less than five minutes.”

Obama’s idea was to have the IRS fill out the 1040EZ for filers. The IRS would basically send you a bill or a check — and if you disagreed with what they came up with you would then have to . . . tangle with the IRS.

How fun would that be!

hit and run on April 15, 2011 at 2:46 PM

Here’s what you need to complete the 1040EZ form.

1. W2 forms
2. Social security numbers of your dependents
3. A pen

It does not take 7 hours to get this info and read a couple of pages worth of instructions.

If you can’t understand instructions like

Enter the number from your W2, Box 1 on line 10,

then you have bigger issues than the time it takes to fill out your tax forms.

angryed on April 15, 2011 at 1:46 PM

Do you have any concept of the idea of what an average is? It’s not based on what you do. Part of filing out a form is determine what form to use in the first place. Once there you have the instructions and worksheets for things like the EITC, etc. Not everyone’s taxes are easy or cut and dry. Some are very complicated even for the 1040EZ and then you allow for the average intelligence not that of the highly motivated and organized person. You have to include the people with “bigger issues” in the average too.

Rocks on April 15, 2011 at 2:49 PM

V”When I’m president,” he said, “we’ll put in place a system where 40 million Americans . .. can do their taxes in less than five minutes.”

He never specified which 40 million Americans. They could all be 40 million homeless people out of work because of the Obameconomy.

Slippery as a seal.

percysunshine on April 15, 2011 at 2:52 PM

It now takes seven hours to fill out the so-called 1040 EZ.

Only if you’re retarded. It only took me an hour to do my regular 1040 using Turbo Tax Online. Granted, it’s costing me almost $80 for the Fed and State but I could do it by hand in almost the same amount of time.

Common Sense on April 15, 2011 at 3:13 PM

Here’s your 5-minute IRS Form 1040. Of course, it’s just the summary sheet from the 4-page long income tax form for 1913, the first year for U.S. income taxes under the 16th amendment, but you didn’t specify which version of the Form 1040 you were really after!….

ironman on April 15, 2011 at 3:16 PM

Here’s Baracky’s simplified form…

Here’s Baracky’s simplified form.

PD Quig on April 15, 2011 at 3:17 PM

Where’s the 5-minute tax form?

It’s the little-known 1040-D (Democrat).

Put some numbers down, preferably ones that show you owe less tax than you really do.

There is a danger if you get caught, though… you may be sentenced to be on Obama’s cabinet or to election as a Democrat Congressman.

malclave on April 15, 2011 at 3:35 PM

Oh, you mean the one that on one line asks “How Much did you make last year?”

And on the next line says, “Send it in.”

CynicalOptimist on April 15, 2011 at 3:57 PM

I have two businesses and just bought a house. I set aside a full day for taxes and it usually takes me about five hours using TurboTax – including the state form. Mine tend to be more complex than most.

If it only takes me five hours to do with a whole bunch of additional forms, there should be no way on God’s green earth that the AVERAGE 1040EZ filer takes seven hours…

Ace ODale on April 15, 2011 at 4:32 PM

The thing about eliminating deductions is you eliminate them all, and reduce the federal tax rates. They tried this under Reagan (any of you older folks remember Reagan’s peeps stacking tax code book after tax code book on a table till the table collapsed?), and had the whole thing down to rates around and under 10%, then someone said “hey, what about the mortgage interest deduction on a persons first house?” and we ended back with the crazy code we have.

Excellent book, if dated, is Showdown at Gucci Gulf, about the attempt to reform and simplify the tax code.

Without the ability to add this break and that break, the power of individual Congress critters would be vastly reduced.

William Teach on April 15, 2011 at 4:55 PM

1040 EZ is the EZ way to lose your shirt. It’s worth the time to itemize, and only lose half your shirt.

Steve Z on April 15, 2011 at 1:03 PM

You still have a shirt?

chickasaw42 on April 15, 2011 at 4:55 PM

You still have a shirt?

chickasaw42 on April 15, 2011 at 4:55 PM

Excess-shirt tax!

slickwillie2001 on April 15, 2011 at 5:38 PM