Obama and Beck agree: Birtherism not such a smart strategy for GOP next year

posted at 7:17 pm on April 14, 2011 by Allahpundit

Via the Blaze, confirmation at last that common ground does indeed exist between GB and The One. Just across from ABC:

“I think that over the last two and a half years there’s been an effort to go at me in a way that is politically expedient in the short-term for Republicans. But [it] creates, I think a problem for them when they want to actually run in a general election where most people feel pretty confident the President was born where he says he was, in Hawaii. He– he doesn’t have horns…we’re not really worrying about conspiracy theories or– or birth certificates,” President Obama told me…

“The truth of the matter is that I think that the vast majority of Americans across the country – Democratic or Republican – really want this election to be about growing the economy, getting control of the deficit, preparing the future for our kids. And my suspicion is that anybody who is not addressing those questions…Is going to be in trouble. I think they may get a quick pop in the news. They may get a lot of attention. But ultimately, the American people understand this is a serious, sober time,” he told me.

Beck’s point exactly, although the left will end up having a lotttt of fun with the idea of him suddenly trying to talk people out of a nefarious connect-the-dots Obama conspiracy. In any case, he’s wasting his breath: The hardcore Birthers won’t end the crusade over something as petty as a presidential election and the less hardcore are, I think, enjoying Trump’s Sheen-esque defiance of media political correctness too much right now to abandon him for reasons of expedience. The real fault line here is between people like Beck, who think this issue is a disaster in the making, and other non-Birther Obama opponents like Rush Limbaugh, who see Trump’s confrontationalism as a “blueprint” on how to beat The One. (“You just go right after him, instead of pussyfooting around, worrying about what the independents are gonna say or worried about what the people that pay attention to politics two days a year are gonna say, just go after it.”) Beck’s going to win that argument eventually, but the longer it takes for the campaign to get rolling, the longer it’ll take for Birthermania to fade. Oh well.


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I have only three words for crr6: best evidence rule.

Look it up. It exists in the FRCP and all 57 states.

Opinionator on April 14, 2011 at 10:22 PM

I see your best evidence rule and raise you:

1) Full Faith and Credit Clause of U.S. Const.;

2) FRE 803(c)(9) which allows records of Vital Statistics i.e. “a statement contained in any form such as records of births, fetal deaths, deaths, or marriages, if the report therof was made to a public office pursuant to requirements of laws.”to be entered as evidence; and

3) FRE 803(c)(16)- Ancient Records which allows Statements in a document in existence 30 years or more (covers the newspaper birth announcements).

Also the Best Evidence Rule doesn’t exist in the “FRCP” (Fed. Rules of Civil Procedure) as you stated. Best Evidence is codified in FRE (Federal Rules of Evidence.)

In fact, the codified Best Evidence Rule doesn’t support your side. In fact it supports CRR.

FRE 1001 (3) Original. An “original” of a writing or recording is the writing or recording itself or any counterpart intended to have the same effect by a person executing or issuing it. An “original” of a photograph includes the negative or any print therefrom. If data are stored in a computer or similar device, any printout or other output readable by sight, shown to reflect the data accurately, is an “original”.

So under the best evidence rule, the COLB issued by Obama is acceptable as printout of data stored on a computer.

F.R.E. 1005 The contents of an official record, or of a document authorized to be recorded or filed and actually recorded or filed, including data compilations in any form, if otherwise admissible, may be proved by copy, certified as correct in accordance with rule 902 or testified to be correct by a witness who has compared it with the original.

The vital statistics (birth and death records) are “official recores”. Therefore copies, “including data compilations in any form” are admissible in Federal courts under the Best Evidence Rule. Thus, the COLB issued by Obama is admissible in any Federal Court and acceptable as proof.

New_Jersey_Buckeye on April 14, 2011 at 11:40 PM

I mean, it’s not as if we’re scrambling for ammo to use against Obama. We’ve got a pretty large stockpile by now. Every new day in office he does something stupid or egregious.

Vyce on April 14, 2011 at 9:57 PM

Oh there is a lot of things to be used for that. however you have to have a foundation. i wouldn’t spend much time on it. I would mention it and move on. I noticed in the hannity interview Trump never brought it up.

unseen on April 14, 2011 at 11:41 PM

LOL Now consider my own pet *conspiracy theory*: Trump is actually working for Hillary. ;)

Opinionator on April 14, 2011 at 11:25 PM

That’s where I’ve been since the beginning of this Trump thing.

Connie on April 14, 2011 at 11:46 PM

Anyone else notice the end of the “he won’t release it just to inflame the birthers” meme?

It was such an oldie but goodie, I just had to comment on it’s passing.

Rebar on April 14, 2011 at 11:59 PM

Rebar on April 14, 2011 at 11:59 PM

I still see it, but mostly it’s been replaced by, “We have to focus on Obama’s bad policies!!!!!!!!!!!!”

JannyMae on April 15, 2011 at 12:02 AM

JannyMae on April 15, 2011 at 12:02 AM

Ever since Arizona passed the law, it’s been replaced by absurdly tortuous legal bullcrap why all of a sudden his COLB magically transformed into a long form birth certificate.

Speaking of Arizona, where are all those folks who mocked me when I said months ago, that the states will force Soetoro to cough up his documents? Some people were very unkind, perhaps apologies are in order, maybe?

Rebar on April 15, 2011 at 12:07 AM

F*** yeah, cause if it gets out that Ann Dunham registered her son as white, it’s all over.

Glenside on April 15, 2011 at 12:22 AM

Every state issues long form birth certificates, capturing the information deemed necessary by the United States Government since 1900.

ARIZONA VITAL RECORDS
BIRTH SHORT
A certified birth certificate that can typically be used for travel, passport, proof of citizenship, social security, driver’s license, school registration, personal identification and other legal purposes. The Birth Certificate – Short is available for events that occurred within the State of Arizona from 1990 to present.

BIRTH LONG
A certified birth certificate that can typically be used for travel, passport, proof of citizenship, social security, driver’s license, school registration, personal identification and other legal purposes. The Birth Certificate – Long is available for events that occurred within the State of Arizona from 1903 to 1989.

Those born in Arizona after 1989 will be unable to produce the LFBC Arizona wants as proof of POTUS eligibility.

Oops!

Every state, including Hawaii, issues certified copies of these certificates. If for some reason one does not, the candidate would need to get a court order to force surrender of said document.

Demanding every state act the same with respect to this issue is an argument against ‘states rights’.

Oops!

Once again, the burden of eligibility is on the candidate, not the state.
Rebar on April 14, 2011 at 10:40 PM

Do tell how one born in Arizona after 1989 will meet the burden of eligibility required by Arizona, when the document establishing said proof is no longer provided by Arizona.

rukiddingme on April 15, 2011 at 1:05 AM

New_Jersey_Buckeye on April 14, 2011 at 11:40 PM

I have been researching the Full Faith and Credit Clause to ascertain whether it might be applicable here.

You made a compelling argument that it is.

rukiddingme on April 15, 2011 at 1:11 AM

I hope Mister Trump keeps digging. He has absolutely nothing to lose. If he finds something, fabulous, if not, everyone will love him for trying. Plus it is fun watching Øbama squirm :) I’m sure the ONE will make a lot of rounds trying to pursued his afternoon moochers that everything is cool and prolly make another speech about something to chastise someone after his next vacation.

nwpammy on April 15, 2011 at 1:36 AM

New_Jersey_Buckeye on April 14, 2011 at 11:40 PM

Wow. What a pretzel you twist yourself into! You and your handlers must be very, very afraid.

Good. :)!! The sham wow is going to crumble and you’ll be out of a job.

The COLB would NEVER be acceptable in any court of law as ‘superior’ to what Fukino says the HA records include; i.e., “the original birth certificate”. You know that, don’t you.

Of course, a year later she (Fukina) also referred to that same record as a “birth record” and arbitrarily decreed that Zero was ALSO a “natural born citizen”. That was a howler. (More chinks.)

Oh, and then the Dem Governor was going to come in and save the day and PROVE/SHOW US the original, long form birth certificate.

That didn’t work out too well either, did it?

Be afraid, be very afraid, Soros and all your little wannabe, paid minions.

We’re onto you. The web of lies and deceit you’ve crafted is about to ….. um …..

Opinionator on April 15, 2011 at 1:47 AM

That’s where I’ve been since the beginning of this Trump thing.

Connie on April 14, 2011 at 11:46 PM

Yep!

Opinionator on April 15, 2011 at 1:49 AM

One more thought before I go to bed. Did anyone ever read “The Implosion Conspiracy” by Louis Nizer?

There is a reason I think of this book in re the Zero and his administration.

Go to sleep, Soros’ night crew. Find another line of work.

You’re gonna need it!

Opinionator on April 15, 2011 at 2:04 AM

Opinionator on April 15, 2011 at 1:47 AM

Yup, the fear is palpable.

Moreso since this meme that you cannot get a long form certificate from Hawaii anymore is a flat out lie:

The Hawaii Revised Statutes, Paragraph 38-13(a) specifies that the agency “shall, upon request, furnish an applicant a certified copy of any certificate, or the contents of any certificate, or any part thereof.” Further, subparagraph C allows that copies of birth certificates “may be made by photograph, dry copy reproduction, typing, computer printout or other process approved by the director of health.”

Fact is, if Soetoro cannot get a long form birth certificate, then he wasn’t born in Hawaii. That he won’t even try because he does have one, it just says something he doesn’t want to get out, well that’s just his tough luck. Arizona has lawyers too, real ones, and they know very well that Hawaii will issue certified copies of LFBC on request, so no substitutes will be accepted.

Rebar on April 15, 2011 at 2:24 AM

What did Barry’s paternal grandmother say?

Christien on April 15, 2011 at 2:31 AM

What did Barry’s paternal grandmother say?

Christien on April 15, 2011 at 2:31 AM

We will never know.

But there is a REASON that Zero has expunged all of his own records related to any and all aspects of his life.

IT IS NOT A BIRTHER ISSUE. IT IS ABOUT PRESERVING OUR REPUBLIC.

Opinionator on April 15, 2011 at 2:47 AM

OmahaConservative on April 14, 2011 at 7:32 PM

My mom and I can’t stand it either. Today she saw him for two seconds (he’s banned on her tv) and she told me, “hem ust have false teeth they way he whistles,” I said, “everything else is false about him why not his teeth?”

-Aslan’s Girl

Aslans Girl on April 15, 2011 at 3:50 AM

I like Beck just fine, but it really irritates me when he says to not use all of the tools in the toolbox. I don’t often use my snap-ring pliers, but they are just the thing for removing and replacing a communist anti-american pseudo-pResident snap-ring.

LegendHasIt on April 15, 2011 at 5:06 AM

Here’s the final nail in the coffin for Trump, and why we should all (birthers included!) run from Trump: NY1 Exclusive: Donald Trump Slams “Evil” Bush, Praises Obama

http://www.ny1.com/content/top_stories/88778/-i-ny1-exclusive—i–donald-trump-slams–evil–bush–praises-obama/

Trump, you’re fired.

Also, as Mark Levin recently reminded us: “He (Trump) was happy to donate to Schumer, Weiner, & Emanuel campaigns last year. He was pro-choice recently and now claims to be pro-life. He sounds more & more like Ross Perot. If he runs as an Independent, Obama wins.”

dave_ross on April 15, 2011 at 7:50 AM

Beck’s a doofus at times (like this one).
Obama is a damned liar and should not be president at any time.

Let me be clear!

Sherman1864 on April 15, 2011 at 7:57 AM

testified to be correct by a witness who has compared it with the original.

The vital statistics (birth and death records) are “official recores”. Therefore copies, “including data compilations in any form” are admissible in Federal courts under the Best Evidence Rule. Thus, the COLB issued by Obama is admissible in any Federal Court and acceptable as proof.

New_Jersey_Buckeye on April 14, 2011 at 11:40 PM

We aren’t buying the legal jibber jabber. We don’t care what sophistry is employed in an attempt to convince us that something printed off someone’s computer that is alleged to represent a record (which is amendable) proves anything.

The very notion that a State privacy law can trump Article II is the worst case of “tail wagging the dog” of which I have ever heard.

Perhaps a court of law may be so procedure bound as to accept something which is NOT EVIDENCE as evidence, but people who live and think in the real world recognize that it’s a bait and switch con.

As I mentioned before, One of Madison’s main points in his argument for declaring Mr. Smith a Citizen was that his Inherited Lands lie in South Carolina.

Where do Obama’s inherited lands lie? They lie in Kenya. Or they would, *IF* the man could prove he was actually the son of Barack Obama Sr.

Apparently he cannot. Not even to collect his portion of the estate in 1982. From Barack’s own book:

On the occasion of his father’s death in 1982, lawyers contacted anyone who might have claim to the estate. “Unlike my mum,” Obama tells his half-sister Auma in Dreams, “Ruth has all the documents needed to prove who Mark’s father was.

DiogenesLamp on April 15, 2011 at 8:34 AM

Do tell how one born in Arizona after 1989 will meet the burden of eligibility required by Arizona, when the document establishing said proof is no longer provided by Arizona.

rukiddingme on April 15, 2011 at 1:05 AM

Easily enough. Concerned citizens will initiate in Federal Court a Class action suit against Arizona for depriving them of an essential document which is NECESSARY for them to comply with future requirements for Jobs and other essential needs.

As a result, Arizona will either voluntarily restore availability to it’s citizens of their essential documents, or Arizona will have to pay a substantial settlement cost with each and every person deprived of their necessary documents.

DiogenesLamp on April 15, 2011 at 8:39 AM

Should he decide to produce any combination of the above in lieu of the LFBC, one has to wonder if those disputing: (a) are baptismalers or circumcisioners, (b) are hospitalers, (c) are postpartumers, (d) are censusers.

The possibilities seem endless……

rukiddingme on April 15, 2011 at 1:10 AM

Oklahoma is close to passing one too, and now Pennsylvania is considering it.

It’s going to get harder to walk this dog back you know.

Also, did it not occur to you that with so many legislators pondering this question and actually VOTING to enact laws addressing Obama’s “pretend” birth certificate, that the narrative is completely against you?

Are we all to believe that the will of a Majority of State Legislators (who can pass Statutes in State law) are to be ignored just so Baracky can have some privacy?

Apparently they agree that the importance of Baracky’s privacy is far and away a secondary consideration compared to the issue of whether or not our President is actually legitimate or not.

DiogenesLamp on April 15, 2011 at 8:46 AM

New_Jersey_Buckeye on April 14, 2011 at 11:40 PM

I have been researching the Full Faith and Credit Clause to ascertain whether it might be applicable here.

You made a compelling argument that it is.

rukiddingme on April 15, 2011 at 1:11 AM

Oh yes, the right hand agrees with the left hand. What a surprise!

By your logic, Hawaii could proclaim a bag of dog poo as credentials, and Arizona would have to accept it.

Producing documents which don’t actually PROVE anything is simply not going to fool anyone. It hasn’t even fooled a Majority of Arizona legislatures, and I’m pretty sure it won’t fool the Governor either.

You, Buckeye and others are simply defending a Con man’s con, and are wroth with the rest of us for not accepting the con.

The Tail doesn’t get to wag the dog! Baracky’s privacy is of little importance compared to the Constitutional requirements for President. He can choose to prove he meets the criteria, or he can choose not to bother us with fake bullsh*t documents.

DiogenesLamp on April 15, 2011 at 8:53 AM

DiogenesLamp on April 15, 2011 at 8:53 AM

For the law when it pertains to Obama.

DiogenesLamp on April 15, 2011 at 8:39 AM

Against the law when it pertains to not Obama.

As I mentioned before, One of Madison’s main points in his argument for declaring Mr. Smith a Citizen was that his Inherited Lands lie in South Carolina.

Yes, because citizenship is a result of inherited lands.

“It is an established maxim that birth is a criterion of allegiance. Birth however derives its force sometimes from place and sometimes from parentage, but in general place is the most certain criterion; it is what applies in the United States; it will therefore be unnecessary to investigate any other.”

James Madison, The Founders’ Constitution Volume 2, Article 1, Section 2, Clause 2, Document 6 (1789)

“6. Upon principle, therefore, I can entertain no doubt, but that by the law of the United States, every person born within the dominions and allegience of the United States, whatever were the situation of his parents, is a natural born citizen.

Lynch v. Clarke, 3 N.Y.Leg.Obs. 236, 1 Sand. Ch. 583 (1844).

Or not.

rukiddingme on April 15, 2011 at 10:13 AM

“6. Upon principle, therefore, I can entertain no doubt, but that by the law of the United States, every person born within the dominions and allegience of the United States, whatever were the situation of his parents, is a natural born citizen.

Lynch v. Clarke, 3 N.Y.Leg.Obs. 236, 1 Sand. Ch. 583 (1844).

Or not.

rukiddingme on April 15, 2011 at 10:13 AM

Great! You found proof that Judges get cases wrong. We already knew that. I am not going to believe crap just because a judge says so.

When Chief Justice Taney proclaimed that Slaves were “Property” in the Dred Scott Decision, Abraham Lincoln did not accept his decision, and I’m not going to do it either.

On the other hand, since YOU accept the decision of a judge as incontestable Fact, how about answering my persistent question?

Cn6 AND New_Jersey_Buckeye has already answered in the affirmative, so now we are just waiting on you.

Can a Judge Amend a birth certificate?

DiogenesLamp on April 15, 2011 at 10:32 AM

A man protects his “nads.” The reason Obama keeps this hidden is because it IS sensitive to him. I say we keep trying to punch him in the “nads!”

DiogenesLamp on April 15, 2011 at 11:00 AM

DiogenesLamp on April 15, 2011 at 11:00 AM

Not only did Arizona kick Soetoro square in the nuts, but you kicked these gullible trolls ‘nads so hard, it flung them off the thread!

Rebar on April 15, 2011 at 12:42 PM

Not only did Arizona kick Soetoro square in the nuts, but you kicked these gullible trolls ‘nads so hard, it flung them off the thread!

Rebar on April 15, 2011 at 12:42 PM

While I would LIKE to think so, more likely they either don’t want to respond to a point that is so hard to refute or they just haven’t seen it yet.

Here’s the thing i’ve noticed. When they make a point, I respond (most of the time) directly to their point.

When *I* make a point, if it’s a good solid hard to refute point, they generally don’t respond or change the subject. It was like pulling teeth to get the Lawyerly cn6 and New_Jersey_Buckeye to respond to the obvious fact that a Judge can mend a birth certificate. I STILL haven’t got rukiddingme to admit the obvious truth that adopted children (such as he himself has adopted) have modified birth certificates.

They absolutely refuse to concede that a fudgeable document isn’t proof. The right people (Judges) can write anything they want on it. Even when you beat them over the head with that fact, they simply refuse to concede that it applies to Obama.

DiogenesLamp on April 15, 2011 at 1:35 PM

Even when you beat them over the head with that fact, they simply refuse to concede that it applies to Obama.

DiogenesLamp on April 15, 2011 at 1:35 PM

They are not here for an honest discussion based on facts, they are leftist trolls spewing talking points and lies.

It’s ok though – Arizona, soon Oklahoma, Texas, and a bunch of other states, they’re not going to take the ravings of leftist trolls into account. They are going to require full documentation from Soetoro, none of this COLB crap.

It will be… entertaining.

Rebar on April 15, 2011 at 2:15 PM

They are not here for an honest discussion based on facts, they are leftist trolls spewing talking points and lies.

It’s ok though – Arizona, soon Oklahoma, Texas, and a bunch of other states, they’re not going to take the ravings of leftist trolls into account. They are going to require full documentation from Soetoro, none of this COLB crap.

It will be… entertaining.

Rebar on April 15, 2011 at 2:15 PM

That is my assessment as well. (on both points.)

DiogenesLamp on April 15, 2011 at 3:35 PM

They are not here for an honest discussion based on facts, they are leftist trolls spewing talking points and lies.

Rebar on April 15, 2011 at 2:15 PM

You do already know that crr6 is an argumentative, intellectually dishonest, partisan hack, so why bother going around and around with her? You’re smarter than that.

We both know she doesn’t care about things like that her blatant lie about LFBCs not being available to the end-public since 2001 is so easily proven wrong, that if she had any sense of decency and humor, she’d laugh at herself and humbly apologize to you for being such a stupid fountain of misinformation who obviously wasn’t aware that the link she posted had changed in 2009. If she would have known this before spouting off like the idiot she is, she could have told you that up until 2009 (which is a date after 2001, right, crr6?) that site, saved at archive.org, lo and behold, said this:

[snip]
Primary Documents

The primary documents used to show you are of age and a qualified native Hawaiian are:

A certified copy of Certificate of Birth;
A certified copy of Certificate of Hawaiian Birth, including testimonies; or
A certified copy of Certificate of Delayed Birth.

[snip]

[snip]
…to process your application, DHHL utilizes information that is found only on the original Certificate of Live Birth, which is either black or green. This is a more complete record of your birth than the Certification of Live Birth (a computer-generated printout). Submitting the original Certificate of Live Birth will save you time and money since the computer-generated Certification requires additional verification by DHHL.

[snip]
Where to Get Your Documents

The state Department of Health, the state Archives, and the state Bureau of Conveyances are just a few places where you can look for and obtain primary and secondary documents. Certified copies of records can be obtained for a fee.

The addresses, telephone numbers and office hours for several of these sources can be found at the end of this section.
[snip]

Your’re a law student who supposedly can read and understand plain English, right, crr6? What did that site say again? Or, would you like some help to see that what I highlighted contradicts what you told us the truth was? If we were to listen to you, you’d have us believe that that website had incorrect information on it from 2001-2009, when it was changed to what is says now about COLBs being sufficient, because the end-public couldn’t get copies of LFBCs after 2001.

Rebar, she’s not worth indulging at all. Or would you like to dispute that? :)

Bizarro No. 1 on April 15, 2011 at 5:17 PM

Rebar, she’s not worth indulging at all. Or would you like to dispute that? :)

Bizarro No. 1 on April 15, 2011 at 5:17 PM

I do it, just in case someone else reads her tripe, and might be swayed by it.

It’s also somewhat useful to know the leftist talking points and to have counters ready at my fingertips.

Rebar on April 15, 2011 at 10:34 PM

Rebar on April 15, 2011 at 10:34 PM

Considering the fact she could be so stupid as to eagerly believe what she was told about Hawaiian LFBCs, and to obliviously miss the fact that she dismissed out of hand data which undermined her position in a way very similar to what she mocks Birthers for, I’ll say that I strongly believe that you can achieve those goals of yours w/o having to argue with/indulge people like our gullible, arrogant pissant.

Bizarro No. 1 on April 15, 2011 at 11:21 PM

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