The First Amendment, Korans, and personal responsibility
posted at 10:12 am on April 6, 2011 by Ed Morrissey
Until now, I haven’t had much of an opportunity to weigh in on Lindsey Graham’s gee-I’d-like-to-ban-Koran-burning-but-I-probably-can’t pas de deux from this weekend. Allahpundit has done a good job of analyzing the issue, and I thought that the point was self-evident enough that few would seriously argue for government intervention aimed at obscure preachers to silence political protest. Conversations I have had in the meantime with others convinced me that apparently the need to defend free speech isn’t self-evident, and when a high-ranking politician stokes those passions, it requires more effort.
My column at The Week addresses Graham’s construct, which he posits as both a need to save lives and to somehow honor David Petraeus, but in order to buy either argument, one would have to believe in remote mind control and throw out the concepts of free will and personal responsibility. That would undermine the argument for freedom entirely:
If Sen. Graham wants to condemn burning the Koran, he’s welcome to do so. If he wants to propose a resolution in the Senate condemning the Florida preacher’s actions, he is welcome to do that as well. Such a resolution is an equally valid form of protest, but otherwise legally meaningless. When Graham purports to support a ban on burning the Koran, however, that crosses the line – actually, several lines. Not only would it ban free political speech as it has been defined for at least decades in this country, but also property rights as well, since Jones owned the book. It would also create, in effect, a protected class for the Koran, which would also violate the establishment clause of the First Amendment.
Even if the ban was expanded to other religious texts, it would still cross establishment-clause lines, as well as prompt questions about what qualifies as a religious text or not. Does Dianetics get federal protection? How about the Bhagavad Gita? The Book of Shadows? The Silmarillion? One suspects that in theory the legal class would extend infinitely, but in practice, the government would only take interest in restraining protests involving the Koran due to the perceived security issues – again making [Islam] a protected class.
We would soon find that such a ban does nothing to improve security at home or abroad. The people who murdered the aid workers did not get magically transformed into murderers from peaceful pacifists by Jones’ remote and obscure protest from halfway around the world. The murders took place because the extremists involved decided to kill, and the responsibility is theirs. To believe otherwise is to reject entirely the legal and moral principles of responsibility and free will, which are the very basis of liberty. Without those principles, the constitution wouldn’t apply at all to any human endeavor, whether in wartime or not.
Whatever anyone else thinks of Terry Jones, he’s not an omnipotent demigod able to control people and rob them of free will. There is no connection between the act of setting one’s own copy of a book on fire in Florida and a series of murders in Afghanistan. To argue that they’re connected at all in any legal or moral sense, both of which Graham argued in theory this weekend, is to instantly stratify humanity into those capable of self-control and those incapable of it.
For the latter, law then could not apply to any of their actions. Criminal responsibility in a free society lies in large part on the concept on mens rea, the intent to act in a criminal matter, and more basically on the ability to form it. If certain kinds of people are incapable of forming intent, then they cannot be held responsible for their actions. That kind of construct gives governments every excuse to ignore basic and natural human rights in the interests of “safety,” “security,” and for the purported good of the benighted folk that fall under that rubric. It’s a dangerous human impulse to make that assumption, and when governments begin applying those assumptions into law, all manner of mischief can and will get official sanction.
The only people responsible for the murders in Afghanistan are the murderers and those who specifically incited them to commit violence, not critics of Islam, society, or the disappearing ozone layer. We do not need to silence our citizens on the off chance that lunatics might respond to the stimuli; such a standard would silence all speech and especially political and religious debate. Free people should understand this and defend against government intrusion even against silly and offensive speech, and those elected to uphold the Constitution that bars the government from infringing on that right should understand it best of all.
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Yes, they are. And rabid.
Concerning the main story here, who cares what the “detractors” who are saying the parents are “homophobes” think! Since when don’t parents have a right to decide who their 14 year old dates and/or hangs around??!!
Sterling Holobyte on May 25, 2013 at 6:16 PM
Of course it is. The media is nothing more than a useful tool. You don’t treat them with respect after they pretty much have become your propaganda operation. Willingly.
Happy Nomad on May 25, 2013 at 6:17 PM
Silly me for not including the obligatory “/”
Longing4Lincoln on May 25, 2013 at 6:17 PM
Well, Bill got his start as an actor.
Count to 10 on May 25, 2013 at 6:19 PM
And?????
ladyingray on May 25, 2013 at 6:22 PM
True.
But she may have had a bad reputation with those of her own age. I mean being known for having sex in public restrooms tends to lessen the appeal for a lotta people, even in today’s anything-goes world!
whatcat on May 25, 2013 at 6:22 PM
Whores are usually not treated that nicely by their pimps, so……
VegasRick on May 25, 2013 at 6:24 PM
What? School bathrooms with their cigarette butt burned toilet seats doesn’t mean romance to you? I was just noticing in the the lawyer write up that Jazz has as an update that it seems that a high school relationship must include sex. I date a bit and had several long term relationships that did not include sex. Have things changed so much today that it is now mandatory?
Cindy Munford on May 25, 2013 at 6:29 PM
I didn’t mean your sentence, it was spot on, I was talking about my answer. It was a weird sentence that would be undecipherable without context.
Cindy Munford on May 25, 2013 at 6:30 PM
That isn’t what people with aspirations of knighthood and a life outside of making gloves in Stratford did. If you’re really interested, I recommend Shakespeare an Ungentle Life by Katherine Duncan-Jones.
Happy Nomad on May 25, 2013 at 6:31 PM
I think they are talking about Mrs. Shakespeare.
Cindy Munford on May 25, 2013 at 6:35 PM
I agree. There WILL be a tendency to go as she has, now that it’s public. It’s like a spring frost that kills a budding flower in place, or exposed light in a darkroom that fixes film at its stage of development. The public spotlight in such a situation is damaging. It’s child abuse, like gays in the Boy Scouts is child abuse or like teaching 5 year olds about same sex marriage is child abuse. Let kids be kids. Don’t make them take on adult sexual issues.
Paul-Cincy on May 25, 2013 at 6:44 PM
People are booking them for honeymoons these days, I guess.
I don’t intend this as mean, but I’ve never been overly impressed with Jazz’s ability when it comes to clear headed, factual analysis. I would include those to whom he links in forming his thinking in my underwhelmed-ness.
I suspect that a lot of HS boys would say “Yes!” and a lot of girls will feel that pressure & go along with it.
In HS, in my day, you didn’t want have a rep as a girl who “put out”. I think that’s changed to some degree, but there’s not the universal acceptance and acquiescence the lawyer posits. I write that off as just so much “guy talk” on how he wishes it were.
whatcat on May 25, 2013 at 6:52 PM
FIFY.
steebo77 on May 25, 2013 at 6:53 PM
Wanna throw a monkey-wrench into the “gay” rights angle that’s being played up this story? Mention the fact that the 15 year old victim’s mother is black and yell “RAAACIIISSTT!!”. That’ll make heads melt down.
whatcat on May 25, 2013 at 6:59 PM
The author is right, it is a crazy system here in Florida. I was a detective for years and watched scenarios play out along these lines a hundred times.
The only thing different here is it a lesbian situation. You can trust me from my experience, the State does not offer “outs” for young men having sex with girls if the ages are the same.
I cannot tell you how many sexually active 14yr or fifteen year olds file charges against the boyfriend after he breaks up with her or the parents file charges against the boyfriend when they get pissed off. I had one case where the parents KNEW and consented until the boyfriend broke it off with their daughter. THEN they filed charges and he got arrested.
The State will threaten a long sentence, settle for a lesser felony and mark the kid for life as an offender. Another example of the “unintended consequences” of the effort to protect kids from predators.
However, unlike England which first lowered the age of consent to sixteen and now wants to lower it to thirteen, we aren’t quite ready to just throw kids under the bus so old guys can get their jollies hammering young girls…or boys. (Trust me, I watched the debates years ago in Britain. It was sickening to see old men argue that sex between adults and young sixteen year olds was okay. Now they want thirteen. That country is screwed!)
This is a case of Political Correctness versus the law. If the older girl was a guy, we would not even hear about it. He’d just be ruined for life.
archer52 on May 25, 2013 at 7:15 PM
Yes. Which is why I was harping in the BSA threads about sexualizing children. The BSA and this is just taking us down this path further.
kim roy on May 25, 2013 at 7:20 PM
What? You had toilet seats at your school?
O_o
BlaxPac on May 25, 2013 at 7:21 PM
I’m with you. If you want people to be good adults, let them have the time to be children.
Cindy Munford on May 25, 2013 at 7:31 PM
LOL!!!!
Cindy Munford on May 25, 2013 at 7:31 PM
Shouldn’t the headline read
“Kaitlyn Hunt and the Juliet and Juliet problem”
VegasRick on May 25, 2013 at 7:33 PM
I was involved in a case once that involved a 14 year old girl and a defendant who said he never even met the girl. Took a while to figure out what was going on. The story was she had asked a teacher if having sex one time could lead to pregnancy or STDs, which led to further inquiry and her naming the defendant. The school counselor told her whoever had sex with her was going to jail, then told her she had to tell her parents and have them contact the school within 24 hours. So naturally she went straight to her boyfriend and they cooked up a scheme to frame the neighborhood geek. It didn’t fall apart until the trial. Turned out she didn’t come forward, she had been overheard discussing sex by a teacher and busted. Put a whole different light on the facts.
novaculus on May 25, 2013 at 7:35 PM
Fascinating that some people rush to her defense. I wonder how many 18 year old man-boys were so valiantly defended on charges of statuatory rape? How many 18 year old pedophiles caughtbuggering young boys had such sympathy?
Of course there is certain differences in the manner of Lesbian sex as compared to heterosexuals or male homosexuals.
The question is, “does that matter under the law?”. Maybe we should have separate laws for Lesbian behavior?
Did laws for different folks?
Oldflyer on May 25, 2013 at 7:38 PM
“different laws for different folks”
Oldflyer on May 25, 2013 at 7:41 PM
So no difference than George Zimmerman being persecuted for the benefit of elected officials pandering to blacks in full Mike Nifong mode? Florida laws suck.
Happy Nomad on May 25, 2013 at 7:46 PM
Great insight and great comments.
CW on May 25, 2013 at 7:49 PM
Agree 100%.
And as bad as cases like that are, try investigating coworkers who get caught doin the nasty and their spouses come in to….discuss the problem.
I couldn’t even begin to think which is worse….ugh.
BlaxPac on May 25, 2013 at 7:49 PM
No. And I say this seriously. The gay angle is a red herring. The real issue is what the laws say about those of age stalking those who are not.
Female teachers have enjoyed this same diversion that no young male student is harmed by “relations” with an adult.
Happy Nomad on May 25, 2013 at 7:49 PM
The senior class cheerleader was charged with felony level sex crimes after police investigated a report that she was involved in a sexual relationship with a 14 year old freshman. (Hunt is 18 years old.)
===========
Not exactly like the Movie,…….Summer of 42′!
(sarc)
Summer of ’42 1971 theatrical trailer
*************************************
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_86PDoqvoI
canopfor on May 25, 2013 at 7:50 PM
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm,…..this just popped up on the News Radar:
NYPD to investigate sexual assault allegations made by actress Amanda Bynes – @AP
Submitted 5 mins ago from bigstory.ap.org by editor
====================================================
NYPD investigating actress Bynes allegations
By JAKE PEARSON— May. 25 7:50 PM EDT
************************************
NEW YORK (AP) — The New York Police Department is investigating allegations made by actress Amanda Bynes that she was sexually assaulted by officers arresting her for throwing a bong out of a window.
NYPD spokesman Paul Browne says Saturday officers from the department’s internal affairs bureau are looking into the claim “regardless of its credibility.”
The allegation was part of a Twitter post believed to come from the former “Hairspray” star Saturday.
At her arraignment on Friday, Bynes made no mention of a sexual assault. She did allege that police illegally entered her apartment.
Bynes is charged with reckless endangerment. She was released on her own recognizance Friday and sternly warned not to get rearrested.
Her next court date is July 9
=============================
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/nypd-investigating-actress-bynes-allegations
canopfor on May 25, 2013 at 8:04 PM
apply the law or dump the law.
dmacleo on May 25, 2013 at 8:13 PM
And just like Mr. Sandusky… if he had been raping little girls it never would have lasted a week. But because it was little boys.. well.. it’s “consensual.” It’s a gay thing. We’ll all look the other way because nobody wants to be called a name like homophobic or whatever.
I remember reading a story, I think it was in the UK but it could have been over hear. A few years back. Maybe some others here remember it… two male homosexuals living together and getting all these little boys as foster care parents or something. They were raping all of them. The child agency was getting all kinds of calls about them… but nobody pursued it for years because.. well. they were gay.
In other words.. when you mock your father and mother.. you become blind.. can no longer see.. falling into deception.
We have mocked our forefathers and removed our foundation. The 10 commandments are a joke.. at the worse, an offense. And as a result.. we are a blind and deceived people. Doing whatever looks and feels good in our own minds.
Hey.. this student isn’t doing anything differently than what a lot of female teachers have been caught doing… having sex with their students. She’s being taught this in school.
“Follow your heart.”
“All religions and cultures are equal.”
“If it feels good, do it.” Especially if you are a female and really especially if you are gay. Because homosexuality is never bad. Besides, is what they were doing really even sex? Bill Clinton might not think so.
Hey…. it’s the men who are evil. She’s a girl. Her sex partner is a girl too. They can’t be doing anything wrong or bad because they aren’t boys. Men and boys are aggressors and rapists. Not females. She probably learned that in school too.
And as for morality? Make it up.
JellyToast on May 25, 2013 at 8:15 PM
How do you balance the fact that she’s manipulating a girl that was 13 years old into being a lesbian and then taking advantage of her as she’s developing emotionally?
njrob on May 25, 2013 at 8:15 PM
BTW, we said homosexuals would be going after the age of consent. Well here we go.
njrob on May 25, 2013 at 8:18 PM
AB is nuts.
CW on May 25, 2013 at 8:19 PM
Agree. So issue a restraining order. Not the threat of a 10 year sentence to a good kid who just fell for the wrong kid in her high school.
This is why people make fun of us social conservatives. Stick to trying to end the killing of babies and other actually important topics. Let’s agree this is trying to kill a mosquito with a hand grenade.
MarkCasper on May 25, 2013 at 8:21 PM
That must be it. I’d chuckle if I wasn’t busy hitting on you.
I know you can’t stay mad at me. So I’ll be sure to piss you off again soon.
[creepy voice on]I’ve been thinking about you. [creepy voice off]
Capitalist Hog on May 25, 2013 at 8:30 PM
Does it make any sense to put this girl into a sex offender registry with real hardcore pedophiles?
If everyone is classified as a sex offender – then each one will be treated casually.
I really don’t feel my kids are threatened by this little girl.
What’s the point? Keeping people safe or punishing moral conduct we don’t like?
HondaV65 on May 25, 2013 at 8:40 PM
I’m a native Floridian and I can definitely agree this is a ridiculous story but hey, let the chips fall where they may.
This is the problem with the laws we’ve got on the books that allow for such prosecutionary discretion/abuse – and what’s good for the gander is good for the goose.
Frankly I’m not a big fan of rigid ages of consent unless you apply ‘em across the board; leaves far too much room for unfair outcomes.
Aquarian on May 25, 2013 at 8:46 PM
See.. here you go. From Breitbart. Judge reduces the 11 year sentence of a female teacher who had sex with a student. The judge struck down the whole 11 years.. except for a few months. He felt sorry for her. Said she couldn’t help herself because she had sexual urges.
http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Government/2013/05/25/Judge-Goes-Easy-on-Teacher-Who-Claims-Hypersexuality-For-Sleeping-With-Students
So what are our youth to think? This is going on all the time.
50 years ago they would have wanted to hang this teacher. Now.. she’s the victim.
JellyToast on May 25, 2013 at 8:47 PM
Age of consent laws are clear. I never dated any girl below 18 when I turned 18 because I didn’t want to risk any legal issues. You want to change the age of consent laws, go right ahead. I’d be willing to listen. I’ve said as much on other pages. Till then, the law is clear and this should be prosecuted fully.
njrob on May 25, 2013 at 8:53 PM
An adult sexually abusing a child doesn’t quite = “good kid”.
whatcat on May 25, 2013 at 8:55 PM
Kaitlyn Hunt is an ADULT pedophile and rapist who had sex with a MINOR in a high school bathroom, among other places – she is a dangerous sexual predator – there is absolutely no question that she belongs in prison.
Pork-Chop on May 25, 2013 at 8:59 PM
The Manson family women didn’t harm me or mine, but for some odd reason I still think those poor “little girls” should be punished.
whatcat on May 25, 2013 at 8:59 PM
Earlier reports suggested that when the relationship started, Kaitlyn Hunt was 17 and the other girl was 15. 14 and 18 is a bit skeevier. It’s also suspicious that Thinkprogress, where I first heard about the story, reported it that way if there was a more significant age difference.
http://thinkprogress.org/lgbt/2013/05/18/2033281/florida-teen-expelled-charged-with-felony-over-lesbian-relationship/
Mister Mets on May 25, 2013 at 9:05 PM
Someone comes into my house to prong my minor child, and it’s over for them. And no, I’m not tough at all….
unclesmrgol on May 25, 2013 at 9:16 PM
NAMBLA is on the other line.
unclesmrgol on May 25, 2013 at 9:18 PM
BINGO. +1000
unclesmrgol on May 25, 2013 at 9:19 PM
The Other McCain is spot on for its write ups over the #FreeKate Campaign. We wouldn’t even be talking about this, let alone debating it, if Kate was an “ugly” lesbian. There’s no guarantee that Kate will get a favorable jury, especially if the prosecution enters the affadavit into evidence should this go to trial. My guess is another deal will be offered, and will be taken by the defense once they think the consequences through rationally.
Source: theothermccain…because-shes-cute-thats-why
Jurisprudence on May 25, 2013 at 9:22 PM
Nice to see you would have been in favor of locking up black men who had sex with white women. After all, that used to be against the law, too.
Im sure back in the old days people said it was rape, too.
kaltes on May 25, 2013 at 9:23 PM
50 years ago it wouldnt have been a crime at all, or even if it technically was, it would never have been prosecuted.
The criminalization of teenage sex is a recent thing. The age of consent used to be a lot lower, as low as 14 or 15 in some states until quite recently.
kaltes on May 25, 2013 at 9:29 PM
No doubt that Obomwa being in full ‘Operation Rabbit Hole’ will ask for a joint session of Congress to deliver a speech addressing this situation…
… No doubt.
Seven Percent Solution on May 25, 2013 at 9:38 PM
This all sounds like a Trojan horse for lowering the age of consent.
Awww… you wouldn’t put this cute little lesbian cheerleader in jail. Let’s lower the age of consent to 14.
bitsy on May 25, 2013 at 9:40 PM
I hear they met in the
Boy ScoutsGirl ScoutsBand Camp…Seven Percent Solution on May 25, 2013 at 9:42 PM
It’s hard to take somebody serious when they complain that the age of consent is too high for them.
whatcat on May 25, 2013 at 9:45 PM
Yeah, let’s go back to the olden days and see how you would fare. It also was that long ago that girls got married at fifteen and had as many kids as they could. Sound good to you? Even in the sixties and early seventies a girl was likely to get married soon after graduation from high school.
Cindy Munford on May 25, 2013 at 9:54 PM
You are at the perfect distance at which to hit on me.
Cindy Munford on May 25, 2013 at 9:54 PM
I can agree that people married earlier and all in the past. Quite frankly.. I think we have extended childhood far beyond what it should be. People used to be mature by the age of 16. Now.. we’ve got 26 year olds still living with mom and dad. Everybody wants the fun of adulthood but not the responsibility.
But as for a teacher… sorry… teachers were held to a much higher standard than today. But… beyond that.. it just didn’t happen. We are discussing something here that just wasn’t a part of the culture in our past. Teachers having sex with their students and wide spread homosexuality.
When I grew up.. when homosexuality was even mentioned… it was a sign that the culture was about to die. And wouldn’t you know it… look around. Our nation is dying. But sex.. we have lots of that. Entertainment? We have all there is. No lack of it. But we’re dying as a nation. Western civilization is on the verge of collapse while barbarians circle us.
We can’t even call barbarians barbarians let alone decide whether it’s ok for an 18 year old female to have sex with a 14 year old female.
In the UK… Muslim fanatics butcher one of their own soldiers in the streets.. while people casually walk by like nothing has even happened. Then.. the police arrest people who posted “hate” directed at the murderers on facebook.
JellyToast on May 25, 2013 at 10:24 PM
1) I don’t believe for one second that you are a social conservative.
2) “fell for the wrong kid”? She’s an old senior (turned 18 before school started) going after a young freshman (not 15 until school is almost out). The girl’s parents told her to knock it off and instead she helps her run away/harbors a minor (another crime).
2) She was offered a sweet deal that would not have involved registering as an offender and she turned it down.
She deserves everything coming to her.
alwaysfiredup on May 25, 2013 at 10:28 PM
The belief that a 26-year-old should still be a dependent is also a recent thing. Childhood lasts longer these days.
alwaysfiredup on May 25, 2013 at 10:29 PM
The girl and her mother flat-out lied to the media outlets they called about the story. I can’t blame them for initially accepting her word for it, but the BC says what it says.
alwaysfiredup on May 25, 2013 at 10:31 PM
Whatever scumbag. You’re all over this case because you want to have sex with minors. It’s clear because you enjoy responding to every sexually perverted case out there. You’re a sexual deviant and it wouldn’t surprise me if you’re already on a list for child predators.
njrob on May 25, 2013 at 10:57 PM
Now, now, what you are witnessing is youth in action which I can guarantee will go *poof* when children of his own arrive on the scene.
Cindy Munford on May 25, 2013 at 11:05 PM
I didnt say the olden days, I said recently, like in the 90s.
kaltes on May 25, 2013 at 11:12 PM
Of COURSE it happened back then, it just wasnt talked about.
You think gays magically appeared recently? No, theyre just out in the open now.
As for teacher on student sex, it is all over the news now, it didn’t used to be if you go back a few decades.
kaltes on May 25, 2013 at 11:14 PM
I thought you were joking but I just saw the parents on TV. I think we might have the perfect storm.
Cindy Munford on May 25, 2013 at 11:16 PM
The age of consent has been lowered since the 90′s?
Cindy Munford on May 25, 2013 at 11:17 PM
I’m sorry Ms. Munford, I just have a hard time with people that try to excuse others taking advantage of young adolescents. This hits close to home with me and I have family I will protect with all my ability from the predators out there.
njrob on May 25, 2013 at 11:19 PM
happy nomad,
Don’t get me started on Zimmerman. It was the first political arrest I witnessed in my lifetime in law enforcement. Clear cut, innocent man going to jail on a rail. Powered by Rick Scott’s fear of black issues and the ego of the a state prosecutor- who would very much resemble the personality of Lois Lerner from the IRS.
Never met an innocent citizen, just one who hasn’t been prosecuted enough.
I had my ex-partner read the affidavit. He thought for a second and asked, “Where’s the PC? In fact, it appears there is a case for self defense in the arresting document!”
Exactly. And the judge signed it. The veteran investigator compiled it and the SAO is going to prosecute it.
Boys, this ain’t your daddy’s America anymore.
I apologized to my kids for letting it get away from us. Their life will never resemble ours- ever.
archer52 on May 25, 2013 at 11:20 PM
Remember that post where I predicted that I’d get called a pedo or such simply because I disagree with the social con trolls here?
This comments section is predictable, as always.
The social con trolls here are every bit as bad as the worst liberals.
kaltes on May 25, 2013 at 11:21 PM
Uhh no, it has been raised. For example, it was 14 in Hawaii and it was raised to 16 in 2001. It was also raised in other states in the 90s.
I think people here assume that all the age of consent laws went up over 100 years ago, but actually some were quite recent, in response to political pressure from a combination of social conservatives and feminists.
kaltes on May 25, 2013 at 11:24 PM
I don’t blame you, people of a certain age are unaware of what parents try to do to protect their children. They are the same people who will call you overbearing and insufferably strict until something happens then you will be accused of neglect or being out of touch with your child’s problems. Lucky for us, we don’t expect to be appreciated.
Cindy Munford on May 25, 2013 at 11:25 PM
Things have changed MORE than you would believe.
And we live outside of the city in realtively “rural” town.
The last 10+ years saw both of my kids go from junior high to adults.
Girls have gone from not wanting to ‘have a rep as a girl who “put out” …’ of 30+ years ago to MANY young women viewing oral sex as part of a non-comitted relationship today.
My daughter funded an abortion for her BFF from her savings account without our knowledge because the girl’s parents would have disowned her for having sex, much less being pregnant. So the “communication gap” of our day still survives to this day.
The one part that creeps me out is when a early 20 something girl flirts with me (I am NOT bragging – I think I am goofy looking) and that has happened in public in front of my wife and daughter. (They decided a public beat down would have felt good but wasn’t worth either of them being charged with assault.)
As a woman friend explained to me later, most guys in the 20′s and 30′s these days are d-bags so some young women have decided age is less important than being the gentleman my mother trained me to be.
PolAgnostic on May 25, 2013 at 11:28 PM
Homosexuality was NOT as prevalent in the past. What IS going on is a culture that, from Hollywood and on college campuses, have pushing – hard – to make homosexuality simply an alternate lifestyle. Homosexuality is less than 5% of the general population. If it was higher, we wouldn’t be having so-called popluation problems liberals and eco-nuts think we currently going through.
Jurisprudence on May 25, 2013 at 11:28 PM
I don’t think the age of consent figured large in our conversations in the sixties and seventies since, as I said earlier, people got married earlier. It might just be a nice idea not have sex be the center of our universe.
Cindy Munford on May 25, 2013 at 11:28 PM
Again, what if this was an 18 year old male having sex with a 13 year old boy?
ladyingray on May 25, 2013 at 11:29 PM
Homosexuality, rightly or wrongly, use to be considered a mental illness, until insure companies decided they wanted to stop paying for it. I assume their “cures” were not successful. Teacher and student sex is not a new phenomenon, it happened at my school in the early seventies. The affair went on for years and even produced a child. I don’t think we want people in positions of power deciding who might be a great sexual partner.
Cindy Munford on May 25, 2013 at 11:32 PM
I really don’t see what the big fuss is about. It is obvious that she violated age of consent laws. Law is what the law is.
Now as to the possiblility of change: I have a second-cousin in a similar situation. For grade 2 or lower, there should be a lengthy period of litigation/payment to society to have the label dropped. For those defending Kait, I suggest you start there.
nobar on May 25, 2013 at 11:39 PM
What terrible and dishonest logic….oh and you’re a pervert.
CW on May 25, 2013 at 11:44 PM
Uh huh.
If you’ve never assaulted someone before why start so late in life? Who is supposed to support your family then? Whose going to talk sensibly to your daughter when you’re locked up? Her boyfriend?
You watch too many movies.
Capitalist Hog on May 25, 2013 at 11:49 PM
I’ll call a spade a spade. You’re all about lowering or removing the age of consent laws. You are so persistent in excusing abominable behavior that it’s logical to assume you have a stake in the matter. Ergo, you have abnormal desires and tendencies.
njrob on May 25, 2013 at 11:55 PM
Well said. Thank you.
njrob on May 25, 2013 at 11:55 PM
What’s scary is that you could interview 100 people on the street, give them all the facts and they’ll still claim Mr. Zimmerman is a criminal who murdered a poor boy for being nothing other than “black man in the wrong place”.
njrob on May 25, 2013 at 11:56 PM
Cindy Munford already asked me my position on age of consent laws, and I replied to her. My reply did not call for the age of consent to be lowered or removed, and you are a liar for suggesting I said otherwise.
I haven’t ever excused abominable behavior. Not once. Regardless of how you feel about Kaitlyn, nothing she did could be remotely called “abominable” by any sane person. If a senior having consensual sex with a freshman is “abominable” then why would it be legal in many US states, not to mention the rest of the world?
kaltes on May 26, 2013 at 12:39 AM
OK, I’m pretty sure you meant that seriously, but your post made me laugh out loud.
RationalIcthus on May 26, 2013 at 1:10 AM
How you enjoying that equality ladies?
Kaptain Amerika on May 26, 2013 at 1:54 AM
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